Guns by DPS, now you can choose your gun by the dmg!

[JPGen]

So the other day I posted on the ranger forums on the psu website and figured some people here would wanna see it. If you havent seen it, here you go and enjoy!

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Ok, so I figured out how dmg is determined in this game and it appears to be for every 30 atp it comes out to about 6 dmg per shot. (also it seems that for rank b you subtract 20 dmg for each shot.. however i havent done rank a so im not sure about that part)

With that said, here is how each weapon comes out for dps with the current weapons.

For arguments sake, lets say you have a base attack power of 300.

Forumula = 300 + atp of weapon / 30 x 6 x how many times it shoots per second

For bullet power = 300 + atp of weapon x 1.% / 30 x 6 x how many times it shoots per second

For elemental weakness = 300 + atp of weapon x 1.% / 30 x 6 x 1.elemental % x how many times it shoots

Handgun: rank 5 handgun has 158 atp so thatll come out to around 91 per shot and you can hit about 2x a sec so that comes out to around 182 DPS. Add on the lvl 20 bullets (140%) and you get about 256 dps. Add on the elemental weakness (13% more dmg) and you get 289 dps.

Twin Handgun: rank 5 handgun has 126 atp so thatll come out to around 85 per shot and you can hit about 4x a sec so that comes to around 340 dps. Add on the lvl 20 bullets (135%) and it comes out to 460 dps. Add on elemental weakness (12% more dmg) and you get 515 dps.

Rifle: rank 5 rifle has 316 atp so thatll come out to around 123 pwer shot and you can hit about 2x per second so that comes to around 266 dps. Add on the lvl 20 bullets (140%) and it comes out to about 344 dps. Add on the elemental weakness (13% more dmg) and you get 389 dps.

Mechgun: rank 5 mechgun has 42 atp so thatll come to around 68 dmg per shot and you can hit about 6x per second so that comes to around 410 dps. Add on the lvl 20 bullets (120%) and it comes to about 492 dps. Add on the elemental weakness (7%) and you get 526 dps.

Shotgun: rank 5 shotgun has 150 atp so thatll come to around 90 dmg per shot and you can shoot once, but hit 4x per shot so that comes to around 360 dps. Add on the lvl 20 bullets (135%) and it comes to about 486 dps. Add on the elemental weakness (9%) and you get 529 dps.

So ya, there you have it. Of course different gun types have different accuracy rates,rate of pp usage and such, but if you were to hit 100% of the time this would give you an idea of how each weapon is compared to the other weapons. I hope this helps in determining what weapons you wanna lvl up for when you play.

[JPGen]

I still say that even though mechguns are one of the top dpsers that with the amount of pp usage it has (gun with 650 pp with lvl 11+ bullets will be empty in about 20 secs) it should be able to hit an enemy behind the first one when the bullet gets lvl 11+...

[FenixStryk]

Somewhat useful, yet somewhat questionable. However, your data still supports my theory that Twin Handguns pwn Rifles. Thank you.

[JPGen]

On 2006-11-07 21:52, FenixStryk wrote:
Somewhat useful, yet somewhat questionable. However, your data still supports my theory that Twin Handguns pwn Rifles. Thank you.



How is it questionable?

[Ryogen]

On 2006-11-07 21:54, JPGen wrote:

On 2006-11-07 21:52, FenixStryk wrote:
Somewhat useful, yet somewhat questionable. However, your data still supports my theory that Twin Handguns pwn Rifles. Thank you.



How is it questionable?



It would have to be tested opun many in order to be proven valid. Not saying you a liar though. Questions lead to obtaining infomation and testing....theorys and hypothesis...stuff like that.

[JPGen]

On 2006-11-07 22:03, Ryogen wrote:

On 2006-11-07 21:54, JPGen wrote:

On 2006-11-07 21:52, FenixStryk wrote:
Somewhat useful, yet somewhat questionable. However, your data still supports my theory that Twin Handguns pwn Rifles. Thank you.



How is it questionable?



It would have to be tested opun many in order to be proven valid. Not saying you a liar though. Questions lead to obtaining infomation and testing....theorys and hypothesis...stuff like that.



I dont wanna sound like a smartass or anything, but it's easily tested... Hell, i gave you the formula to try it yourself. Just buy yourself either a weaker or stronger weapon and head out to a rank c mission then do the same mission on rank b and take away 20 dmg or so and thatll be your dmg.

But anyways, basically what im saying is, if you don't believe me you can easily test it out with the formula already given.

Just go into rank c mission in the very beginning (where the enemies are lvl 1) and test it out. Then go to the rank b and test it. The numbers may not be exact, however itll be pretty close.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JPGen on 2006-11-07 22:31 ]</font>

[Bahamut89]

The question is, what level do you get 300 ATP? Obviously, rifles are more useful the less ATP you have, and the opposite with pretty much everything else... Hmm... Could you give the dps in terms of x, where x is your base dps? I'm too lazy to think about that right now...

[Bahamut89]

I just did some basic number crunching, and even with my scrawny newman arms at 146 ATP Twin Handguns are better. Time to switch over the old synth factory I guess. So many Blaster +5s... Well, good money I guess.

Edit: Come to think of it, I should've done this anyway, consider that a Guntecher's only two-handed S-rank is in Twin Handguns...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bahamut89 on 2006-11-07 22:31 ]</font>

[JPGen]

Dont worry about it bahamut, at least now you have an idea. -_-

[Zakuro]

Your data is questionable for one simple reason, ATA. Not every attack you do will hit and not all weapons have the same ATA. Sure, if you always have the back to shoot at you will hit all the time, but that usually doesn't happen without quite a bit of manuvering, which is costing you DPS as you could be attacking, especially if the mob starts turning mid-combat.

[Eternal_Drake]

As a ranger myself, I wouldn't bother referring to something like this as it is now if I were comparing weapons to buy. The main factor missing, like Zakuro said, is ATA. You can calculate maybe how much you will do per shot, or maybe how many bullets you can get off every few seconds, but without ATA it wont matter. Also I dont even see anything about DFP or EVA of what the fuck you are shooting at, especially as there are situations where each shot of a shotgun might deal 5 to a creature that a good rifle might deal 35 to.

[Bahamut89]

The biggest missing factor is not ATA, it's DFP. Well, ATA's also a factor, but DFP moreso.

I actually switched over to a set of +5 Twin Autoguns just now(that was surprisingly simple, must be my level 3 luck today...) And ran through the first B-rank Parum mission with both my old rifles and my new Tguns. +5 grinded 3* weapons have about the same ATP as 5*, so it's pretty close to your numbers, except my Bullet levels are pretty low.

Rifle: 100
Tguns: 40 x 2

Pretty simple. On elite enemies (those guys with little stat up symbols) the Rifle did 40 while the Tguns did 12 x 2.

Well, my theory is this: I'll grow into them.

On another note, I miss the flinching. Rifles cause flinching, Tguns don't, presumably from passing some damage threshhold. And rifles keep them frozen longer (because you don't break them out again by spamming shots as fast). And the range...

On another other note, Yohmei rifles do 6 less damage than GRM rifles at +5. 100 ATP is 6 damage?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bahamut89 on 2006-11-08 00:01 ]</font>

[Randomness]

DPS isnt everything. Guns are particularly useful for status effects, and theres varying range.

[necman]

How did you calculate the mechguns. I don't know if they changed it but from previous pso games not all the strikes took damage from the creatures. Hopefully this changed this time around.

[Realmz]

On 2006-11-08 04:17, Randomness wrote:
DPS isnt everything. Guns are particularly useful for status effects, and theres varying range.



mechguns win out of applying status effects since they hit more and often, but rifles win out on have the more powerful effects.

to me that says that mech and twin guns are more for the trash, while rifles should be brough out for those higher then average mobs we see a number of times

[Shiro_Ryuu]

yeah, I love machine guns but I think they're more for normal enemies and not for [semi] bosses, nothing is more painful than watching a bunch of 1-digit numbers come out.

[Itsuki]

If you are basing your gun choices on dps, you already fail.

Also, this doesn't factor in a lot of things such as:
- Grinding, which actually makes rifles one of the highest DPS
- PP usage and brand of guns.
- Def of monsters, which can drastically change things.
- Elemental affinity of monsters.

Also, 300 ATP? What is this? A Level 50 Ranger level 10? I think thats not the best thing to assume. I mean, seriously, my level 55 Guntecher level 3 only has 285 ATP (though arguably as a RA 10, it has 338). And keep in mind, I turned guntecher at 47.

Lastly, I have no idea where you're getting your numbers:
Handgun numbers are ok for GRM, Dualie numbers are ok for GRM
Rifle: 316 Yours / 317 for GRM
Mech: 42 Yours / 38 for GRM, 41 for Tenora
Shot: 150 Yours / 63 for Tenora

[Sorenia]

However, your data still supports my theory that Twin Handguns pwn Rifles. Thank you.


Rifles have higher effect levels than any other gun. Plus since they have high base ATP they improve more with grinding than the other guns.

In summation twin handguns are good for doing slightly more damage and being strafeable. But they lose out on range and effect levels in compairison.

[Slorg]

In excel this is:

Name Category ATP ATK SPS WKN SHT DPS
Beatgun HG 185 158 2 13 140 217.1

with the formula for DPS being: =(((C2+D2)*(G2/100))/30)*6*((100+F2)/100)*E2

ATP = Your ATP
ATK = Weapon power
SPS = Shots/second
WKN = Elem Weakness Bonus on Weap
SHT = Elemental Bullet/Technique/PA bonus

Happy spreadsheeting. It is very easy to factor in Monster Elem, ATA, DFP etc. With Monster elem being the easiest to calculate.

Also if you have 4 lvl 20 bullets you can just swith according to the monster type.

[Slorg]

One more note. The things that affect DPS most are:

-Shots per second
-Bullet Type
-Element / Monster Element

Play with the calculation, going to 140 atk for a shotgun vs. 40 is no big diff, as is grinding your atk up. You -will- get more overall attacks with the pp though. Even so you probably will only get 100 shots max from a wand or gun.

[Rizen]

The information is good but theres alot of other factors and things left out that play key roles in damage such as enemy element and the armor of the enemy. Still very useful for idea purposes but with a little work it will be great! I will be looking into this a bit.


On 2006-11-08 05:02, Realmz wrote:
mechguns win out of applying status effects since they hit more and often, but rifles win out on have the more powerful effects.
to me that says that mech and twin guns are more for the trash, while rifles should be brough out for those higher then average mobs we see a number of times


I disagree with the fact that mechguns statement. Although he hits alot more than rifle, it doesnt apply more. I'd say its about the same rate; at least from my experience. Though I agree that mechguns and twins are better for multiple enemies.

[KirinDave]

I can't help but think that any calculations that ignore enemy DFP and EVA are doomed to fail. It seems like PSU is akin to PSO in that it has a non-linear function defining how much damage you do to a mob.

At some point in the equation comparing your ATP to their DFP, you see a rapid falloff in damage that approaches 0. At the same time, after a certain point it seems that more ATP gives diminishing returns, like with Shimatsu's screenshots of the damage to De Ragan.