The Economy of PSU Already Dead?

[Spectral]

Okay, here's one of the things that none of the "OMG SEGA NEEDS 2 RELEAZE NEU CONTENT!" threads has addressed.

The economy in this game is, by this shop owners estimations, dead.

What do I gague this on?

The first weekend I was on I opened a shop. When I opened I had very little to put in it so I synthed a few 9250 boards and sold the stuff immediately. As in, I did a run, came back 18500-20000 easy. If I got the second and third items off the board I'd sell them for 17K and 15K. No need to get greedy, it's still a healthy profit. That's nearly 50,000 net and with a 9,250 for the board... 5,400 for the metals, 14,400 for the ores, 9,000 for the woods. That's 3,000 per weapon and 9,000 meseta for doing the work.

Now a couple of things have happened since Friday. I've sold 1 weapon above the cost of materials. Tons of people "discovered" metal conversion boards and I've seen about 8-10 shops with 70-90 something 5 star metals trying to sell them for 550-650. Something I admit to doing but.... quit doing when after any three hour stretch I was not completely sold out of the last batch of 24 I made.

When did the metals market crash? Probably Sunday-ish. Meanwhile there are in fact players out there that got greedy and are sitting on 130,000+ in real out of pocket costs for 5 star metals (Each one costs 450 to make, 100 each for 4 metals, 50 per board use.) and wow.... that's a lot of money tied up in something useless.

Now I'm at a loss why weapons are seemingly dead on the vine. I've made force rares, they sit. I've made rifles, they sit. Two days later they sit. 5 star items priced at 9,999 sit. Meanwhile when this game is expanded, and hopefully pretty damn soon, gamers will discover that these 5 star wands, staffs, rifles, blades, swords etc. carry a NPC store value of 18,500.

It's not like every single shop I run in and out of suddenly has level 80 PM's. So I come to these conclusions.

1. Roughly 50-75 sythesizing store owners are enough to satiate demand on the 360 side for weapons. Seemingly there is no more need than that. Otherwise I can't explain owners selling items for 500 meseta more than the real cost they incured to make an item. Yes, 500 meseta. If there's one failure in the bunch they lose money synthesizing items for that board.

2. The metals market. Nothing needs to be said when store purchased items start going for more than the NPC value. It's stupidity. When a few people figured out "HEY! LOOK! CONVERSION BOARDS!" The market is flooded with materials and well, that helped collapse the value of the weapons market. More people buying materials, more people making weapons, more people succeeding, fewer people buying. Or... no people buying.

3. There's nothing left to buy and sell. Think about this, what item are you currently looking for that you haven't found? A six star weapon/armor? Good luck making that armor.... Everyone now can seemingly make the Crea Blades, Cresaud with their level 80 striking PM. You can't even use them if/when you make them. What's so rare out there that you're working for? 98% of the game is now stuck in "store bought quality" items.

You realize that the hardest things to come by now are parts to make a room statue of a rappy, dragon or demon??? OOOOH BOY! That just SCREAMS for gamer replay.

There aren't enough gamers on PSU for the 360 to justify the amount of stores out there. If every store owner has made 10-20 items in the past week and there are 500 of them? Well, the average server load during the evenings seems to be around 2,500. (Based on 200 gamers per star measuring a universe.) That means there are 5,000-10,000 items that have been made in the past week.

People can't continue buying stuff at that rate, there just aren't enough gamers playing PSU, yet more keeps getting made daily. Hence, more items, less demand, decrease in prices, stores stop making stuff.

This is just one more major reason that new content needs to be released. The commerce aspect of this game has died in the last 72 hours.

[-Crokar-]

this does serve a valid point. it has gotten to the point where i see stuff that was expensive as heck down to nothing hardly at all. i figured it would happen so i have yet to make a shop.

[Realmz]

welcome to XBox Live?
it should really speak volumes about people if they can crash a games economy within a month of it opening. Well played anonymous well played.

also tl:dr

[Ryogen]

How do you call it a crash? Well I see how ya call it that, but maybe it's some people desperate to make a little money and then it's competition..just my guess. Nice observation btw.

[AkiraXxx]

IF your trying to go into weapon selling you have to provide what others arent.

Low prices for 5 star weapons with low elemental percents.
More 5 star weapons HIGHLY grinded.

It wont be long befor everyone is making weapons and selling them cheaper.

[Spectral]

I call it a crash when items that NPC stores will be selling for 18,500 are being made and sold by players for just over half that price. Those player created items are also... superior. 9 out of 10 items created carry an element as opposed to just a "photon". Something store purchased weapons do not feature.

It's a crash when things are being sold at or below manufacturing costs. That's a player/store owner subsidized economy.

There are no rares on this game anymore outside room statue items. I would count the 7 star "replica" boards as a rare but since they can't be used, they aren't rare as an in demand for player use. They're rare by speculative nature only. I would also throw the Relic Edge and Varha Claws in with those items. Yes, rare. Yes, would be much more in demand if people could make them and see them. In fact, the prices would skyrocket.

As such the economy in PSU is essentially based on duping. Weapons are getting to the point where they have a value of 999,999 meseta on the PSO days.

[Elleranda]

I think you might be overthinking this a little bit...

[Spectral]

On 2006-11-07 23:48, AkiraXxx wrote:
IF your trying to go into weapon selling you have to provide what others arent.

Low prices for 5 star weapons with low elemental percents.
More 5 star weapons HIGHLY grinded.

It wont be long befor everyone is making weapons and selling them cheaper.



9 out of 10 store buyers don't know what grinding is. They also don't think a 3 grinded "B" class weapon is worth 3,000 more than the "normal" elemental price.

Store buyers, by and large, are oblivious to element percentages and couldn't tell you a grind on a weapon if you told them they could have 5,000 meseta if they got the answer right.

Unfortunately while many on this board are nuanced on such things, the overall gamer on PSU is not.

[Elleranda]

On 2006-11-07 23:56, Spectral wrote:

On 2006-11-07 23:48, AkiraXxx wrote:
IF your trying to go into weapon selling you have to provide what others arent.

Low prices for 5 star weapons with low elemental percents.
More 5 star weapons HIGHLY grinded.

It wont be long befor everyone is making weapons and selling them cheaper.



9 out of 10 store buyers don't know what grinding is. They also don't think a 3 grinded "B" class weapon is worth 3,000 more than the "normal" elemental price.

Store buyers, by and large, are oblivious to element percentages and couldn't tell you a grind on a weapon if you told them they could have 5,000 meseta if they got the answer right.

Unfortunately while many on this board are nuanced on such things, the overall gamer on PSU is not.



So.. basically.. Your complaint is that people are selling at lower prices than you want to?

[Ryogen]

I understand your point Spectral, but you may be thinking a little to far on this. I know how you feel, but do you think this is just another type of supply and demmand. I suggest you keep your argument but wait till a week or 2 after the next update. This is somthing I can't see happening at the moment even though anything like that IS possible.

[KazeSin]

360 ftl http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Shadow_Wing]

I think this is a clear cut case of supply and demand. I really do believe you're over thinking this one, for the PC version I'm seeing nowhere the amount of 5* weapons, especially Ranger/Force 5* weapons, that I would have expected (everyone and their mother has a f'n striking PM lol) and thus there's a major market that I've tapped into (yay for my uber range PM).

Also, there are small things that one can do to increase profit margins, like farming mats for instance.

[Spectral]

On 2006-11-07 23:58, Elleranda wrote:
So.. basically.. Your complaint is that people are selling at lower prices than you want to?

No brainiac. People are selling at prices that aren't making them any money.

You don't take a risk putting up 9,000 meseta of materials to make a 500 profit with a 1 in 3 chance of failure.

Are you having trouble grasping profit margins? Do you have any concept of at risk capital?

You simply cannot make money as things stand on sythesis now.

[daylight129]

I think he's right in that you are thinking about this too hard.

And wait...when did this happen. PSU has an economy?! I wanna see!

[KiteWolfwood]

It is called economic fluctuation. In a new economy the prices and demand for certain things will fluctuate a lot as the economy tries to find a balancing point.

[Remedy]

On 2006-11-08 00:44, Spectral wrote:
No brainiac. People are selling at prices that aren't making them any money.<snip>So basically, your complaint can be summarised as thus:

"I can't make money because people who don't know as much about economics as I do are undercutting me."

Right?

[Superguppie]

The game is still young. The population is still young. Players are only just discovering everything. The economy isn't dead, it's having growing pains. Bear with it. As the game and it's population matures, things will settle down.

If people are selling below cost, they have either found a way to reduce cost. Not sure about PSU, since I don't even have it yet, but I can imagine something you can buy can also be found. If someone finds a good source of that something, he/she can sell below shop price and make a profit.
Also, it is possible someone bought more than he/she needed, and is selling off the excess at a price below that of the shop, but above what the shop will pay for it to sell it back. Sells fast, and has smaller loss than selling back.
It isn't uncommon when some new industry comes on that more people see an opportunity than the market can take. In time the supply and demand will balance out, and some people will have taken a loss in the process. Normal economics, I think.

[Sinue_v2]

So basically, your complaint can be summarised as thus:

"I can't make money because people who don't know as much about economics as I do are undercutting me."

Right?

Oh Snap!



As far as PSU's economy goes - it's still fleshing itself out. Prices will settle eventually. Don't worry about a damned "market crash" until there is even an established and stable market to begin with. When you start seeing a stack of 20 Monomates going for 5,000,000 Meseta regularly - then you know there's a problem.

[SpishackCola]

On 2006-11-08 01:05, Remedy wrote:

On 2006-11-08 00:44, Spectral wrote:
No brainiac. People are selling at prices that aren't making them any money.<snip>So basically, your complaint can be summarised as thus:

"I can't make money because people who don't know as much about economics as I do are undercutting me."

Right?



Win.

[Skyly]

I agree the economy is dead or close to dieing. Weapons do not sell anymore. When the game first started like he said, shops were booming, then people started to smarten up and make their own weapons and sell the extras. now there are too many weapons and not enuff people buying them, thus people getting desperate and shop owners having to lower their prices dramatically for them to gain any revenue. The metals market is kinda still in, but not as much, but definately the weaops market is gone. I think even if Sega did release the content say for instance, the weapons market would jumpstart itself, then die out again, the process is gonna repeat itself and Alot of people will be making their owns weaons and not buying them. the people who make their weapons will indeed sell the extras, then no one will buy them, then push the prices down again.

[-Shimarisu-]

I dunno bout the 360 version, but my stores are doing just great on PC.

[Roffkaiser]

I think your main problem is that you are indeed buying the metals, that right there is a big risk in economic terms. It is much safer to just get the materials in the field and build items then put them in your shop much like I am guessing the people who sell things cheap do, because if they are actually buying things like nanocarbon and then selling for 6000 meseta they should be shot.

[Pentence]

I have a shop and say upfronti charge at half npc prices,i make a ton of 2-4* weapons and sell them for exactly half their value.I also however do not go out of my way to buy mats i use what i find i only buy mats for items i use myself(i also add the % of element into price so even a 100% elemental wep is still only at the npc regular price).Also right now i wont decrease my prices just to sell things i keep them as they are and i get a decent amount of income for being true and steady.I have found that a good thing to sell is mates for half price i sell trimates for 250 each and make a good amount from them,mats that i have out have yet to be touched so i said f that.

Finale note here lots of stores i ahve been to have waaay overpriced items and others underpriced,peopleeitehr dont know the true value or are being dumb about this but either way i fee l ya this is becomeing a problem on either psu severs.

[FrogKicker]

Been playing games with economies forever now. I will continue to sell my stuff super cheap. 5* wep with 20% elemental bonus? 4-5k. Found a 4-5* armor board? 2-3k...tops. I don't consider it undercutting, I just consider you very very greedy. It's not like meseta is hard to come by once you hit A rank runs, so if I make plenty 'o cash on runs, why be greedy with crap I will never use?

[-Shimarisu-]

Meh maybe it's just that I have a pure striking 410? I can afford to sell at an apparent "loss", but I'm not REALLY selling at a loss, you know.

Also I'm really just happy to make low profit on junky low %s and keep the good ones.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-11-08 03:27, FrogKicker wrote:
Been playing games with economies forever now. I will continue to sell my stuff super cheap. 5* wep with 20% elemental bonus? 4-5k. Found a 4-5* armor board? 2-3k...tops. I don't consider it undercutting, I just consider you very very greedy. It's not like meseta is hard to come by once you hit A rank runs, so if I make plenty 'o cash on runs, why be greedy with crap I will never use?



Haha you really are stupid though you know, and yes you are ruining the game economy. Also all your customers are just buying to sell in their OWN store.

Get some savvy. You're feeding those greedy people you hate.

[FrogKicker]

Not stupid, just don't care.

[AC9breaker]

tldr
psu doesn't have an economy

[Roffkaiser]

Any game that has items that are sold between players has an economy, therefore PSU has an economy.

[physic]

Its naturtal that these items become less profitable as the game goes on, and knowledge decreases, the true value of an item isnt much more than the cost of synthesis, as more people level thier pms. Also you have to understand with a game, people dont really need money, they will spend whatever they want, essentially you get buy in Psu by charging way less than what the vendor would sell it at, because, hey the shopping system isnt tha convienent. and your as likely toget price gougued as not, if you dont have knowledge. Simple, in the beginning your 5 stars were hot, and rare, now, they are not rare because people dont need many 5 stars, and they know how to obtain them. until new items come in and become hot, for now, the future of profit is probably in armor, or A ranks. fact is the lowbie stuff is just that lowbie stuff it was bound to get outgrown in value, also recognize some of the sellers are former owners who just want to get rid of the item, now that they have a better one. All of this is part of economic, what you have is simply not that valuable.

[AnamanaAU]

What I really hate is the fact that there's only gigaline & midiline boards for sale and the only MADE gigaline I've seen in a store was going for 200k. The content update needs to hurry up and show these idiot store owners the real pricing.

[Zabot]

I think it all comes down to if you really know how to make a profit and still keep things cheap. my shop is notorious for its low prices, everyone loves my shop, i constantly update the ad to tell what i have. i think in the end that only the people who truly know how to run a shop will in an escence "Survive". try a lot of nw things until you get it. find out what sells the fastest. and whatnot.

Peace

[Tanizaki]

Sounds like you guys just expected the economy to be mature right off the bat. That's foolish. The economy isn't crashing, it's in the process of becoming stable.

I do admit the possibility that you guys on the xbox broke it already, but heck, sounds like you're just a bunch of crybabies to me.

[Tomeeboy]

It may be getting harder to turn a profit from just synthesizing stuff when you buy all of the materials from the store, but I think you can still make a decent amount when you find/farm items to use for synthesizing, or buy them from player shops where the costs are considerably lower than the synth store. In addition, I think that shops still provide an excellent way to get more money for your items, rather than selling them to the in-game shops at 5% or 10% of their actual value. Even if you could only sell them at 20% or 30% of their value, it would still be better than nothing.

[Jiga]

I think this whole argument is stupid. If you want to talk about economy problems you should check ebay for PSU meseta. Crashed/Broken? Meh... Not to mention, you should pay Broomop's site a visit. I 'd bet all my meseta he'll have God of Equip in a month.

[SirEldest]

I say that the problem is that there is not a wide varity of weps. Therefore ppl want one kind and that is it.

Also since the game is new, ppl dont know much about the difference of the upgraded of a wep verse a wep of high star. This game is still too new to figure out every little detail. With new ppl getting the game still, that makes it even more true. I say after the game has been out for awhile, it should be more stable.

Look at ffxi. Once a new item came out, the price was almost at max money u can hold on one char. Then after like a month to 2 months, it went down to a reasonable price.

[PLURSprout]

As a fellow shop owner and consumer, I'm actually more prone to undercutting prices (and yes I actually know about economics), and here's why. First of all return business is a beautiful thing. Second of all most of the things SHOULDN'T be sold for half of the NPC price or higher, because people could just go through runs and FIND the junk. Lastly, if you shop at the right player shops, you can still buy materials for rediculously low prices, synth items, and sell them for nice profits and reasonable prices. Plus understand that you have to lower prices in order to give the buyer an incentive to actually USE the player shops, because it sure isn't mandatory to succeed in this game, and is still quite annoying to sift through the 20 or 30 OVERPRICED places in order to get to the one shop that has prices you would actually pay. Just my comments.

[SLyNKee]

also it depends on what you are making to sell, if its something people can easily find from farming missions, then its kinda worthless to make don you think? I just got my shop and have almost made back what I spent to open it in a little over an hour. Just from putting up items I in storage that I have found getting up to lvl 17.

If what you are making isnt very profitable then try making something else? But I cant say too much since im on the PC/PS2 version...

[Genobee]

was there even a economy to begin with?

[Shiro_Ryuu]

man, I'm not an economics expert, all I know is that people selling things for lower than retail price but at a higher price than what the stores sell them from people is a good thing, he wins because he makes more money than he would if he sold it to the NPC store, you win because you bought it at a lower price than the NPC. To me, thats good.

[Gavin_King]

One of your points is that weapons are being sold cheaper than the materials needed to make them... One of the reasons for this is that the materials needed to make them are being sold for super high prices. As those prices comes down, so does the ability to make the weapons, and there you get profit.

Even still... I think that eventually people will only be looking for high element and grinded weapons... Sure most people don't know what that is, but the game has been out for 2 weeks... Give it time.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-08 00:44, Spectral wrote:
No brainiac. People are selling at prices that aren't making them any money.

You don't take a risk putting up 9,000 meseta of materials to make a 500 profit with a 1 in 3 chance of failure.


Correct. What if the materials are only worth 3,000 to them then? You realize that for people who run higher rank missions over and over, some materials are simply not that rare.

The truth is that we have very little understanding of the "true" value of anything in PSU right now. The economy of PSU is still establishing, and it will surely see peaks and valleys as it evens out.


Are you having trouble grasping profit margins? Do you have any concept of at risk capital?

You simply cannot make money as things stand on sythesis now.


Unless you farm your materials. Which people are doing. I can afford to sell the better C-rank staves at less than half their cost, because I found the boards, the wood, the metal, and the photons on Neudaiz, and I found a lot of them. I don't care what they go and do with them. I care about the fact that I move my stock quickly and with a higher profit margin than competitors who buy materials.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-11-08 11:54 ]</font>

[Apathy]

I myself am a Shop Owner as many well know by now. I have to say, right now is not the time to be worried about PSUs economy. The world itself is still very young, and with the way sega has handled things will not be "booming" per se, until more content is released. Dont become discouraged, this is just the current trend of the economy as people are finding other things to do or whatever until the next content update.

Also as a suggestion, do not just sell weapons. For a while all I sold was grinders and as time went on, when grinders became less popular I began to loose money. So I sold weapons and armor, occasionaly medicines and traded clothes now and again. The key to running a successful shop is in fact, not to over specialize. I am still making a steady flow of money.. I may not be sitting on 100+k but the money is there when I need it. My honest goal is to make sure that people can depend on my shop, so that when the updates come and the intrest is stirred once again, people will visit me because I have become "established" or "reputable" in thier minds.

If one has studied economics, one knows that it is governed by past tends, current desires and future investements. Past, Present, Future .. all these things must be embraced, otherwise, well... Your dream of becoming a successful merchant will be a rough and rocky one. Feel free to PM me if you need some ideas. However, like I said.. I am not a 1-mil Shop owner. I play for the steady flow, not for the quick fix. (Additionaly it seems that there are quite a few shop owners that have confessed to having economic training .. keep this in mind with what they tell you.)

Oh and since I got off topic a bit. My feelings are this PSU = young, thus PSU Economy = Young. Not enough time or content to decide if it is "busted", "broken", or "Deficient" yet.

My 2 cents



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Apathy on 2006-11-08 11:55 ]</font>

[Ruby-chan]

In any truly free market the prices of a product drop to what it costs to manufacture it. (Note: Salaries are considered part of this cost, since without purchase labor you can't actually manufacture anything.) Also, the most efficent, cost-effective method for item production will become the only method of production over time due to the fact that those who are using more innefficent means can't sell their product when someone producing the product more efficently are producing it less.

In this economy the availability of materials to produce product is determined by how frequently enemies drop them, and the efficency of item production is determined by a PM's statistics. Therefore, prices will hover around what those who can farm materials and have PM's with high stats (and therefore high success rates.) can sell things for, and it will end up hovering around the price for the materials as more and more people gain the capability to produce items on such a rate as well and then they all try to sell lower than their competitors.

Economics 101 is now over. n.n

[klunka]

Anyone else think maybe weapons aren't selling cause there's only like 50 weapons in the game right now? There's more shops than weapons. Then add to that only 20% of those weapons are good enough to be in high demand.

You need to wait until you can make a weapon that's RARE. Right now no weapon is difficult to come by.

[DarkAtvar]

Damn you guys are overthinking this. There just aren't that many things to sell right now. You made stupid money at first off of peoples lack of knownledge. There are alot of people who have basicly "beaten" the game in its current state, just wait for the next update.

[AnamanaAU]

On 2006-11-08 06:58, Jiga wrote:
I think this whole argument is stupid. If you want to talk about economy problems you should check ebay for PSU meseta. Crashed/Broken? Meh... Not to mention, you should pay Broomop's site a visit. I 'd bet all my meseta he'll have God of Equip in a month.


I'd love to see that failure try to hack online, I guess he has to wait till a hack comes out in japan first.

[physic]

gigaline? if thats the one i think (5star) than 200k is a mark up but not as unreasonable as you think 6 marseline, 15 nanocarbon, and the board, thats prolly like.... 40kish right there, then it has a base chance of 37ish percent to get made, even with a armor pm, which isnt to easy to make, and may have limited use, its 50% so lets say 80-100k is your chance of sucess, the guy is gonna want a huge mark up for taking an 80-100k risk, not to mention teh extra slot is needed by many jobs, Also the fact its not in stores makes its price up for grabs, and yeah offfline, they had 900k items, so sega doesnt nec think stuff shoudl be cheap

[Grr]

Ive made a good amount of money synthing things, and a few of my buds will tell you , the way to make money is to FIND the materials and find (or buy ) the boards, that way if you sell 3 of the 9250 B class weapons for 9k you nearly triple your investment (well ok , minus marseline , that stuff is hard to find laying on the ground as opposed to par wood/ash photons , and zepotite ,( i make guns but feel free to say soldonium here) all of which are stupid easy to get 1-2 a run if you do the right mission.

[usmcbama]

Europe and Japan have yet to get this game (on 360).

Rest assured, there will be a fresh lot of customers in the coming weeks.

How many of us purchased our first 3 star weapon from the shop, simply because in the first day there weren't any player shops to buy from? When the servers start seeing fresh players, the market will refresh itself as well. Also, since many of us have lv100 pms, there might not be enough incentive for some players to raise pms for synthing, rather it would be much less expensive and much more convenient to buy from other players.

It's that whole past/present/future thing. Stay positive! Perhaps there's a use for that 99 stack of soldonium yet!

[James2006]

If you think about it every player only needs 1 weapon and 1 armour, that is not too much demand. Almost every player has a shop and people will synth the items that they find on their missions and sell them. The price will continue to decrease as there is a greater and greater supply of the weapons. The price will drop until you can sell off the weapon or items to the npcs for the same price.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-08 16:35, usmcbama wrote:
Europe and Japan have yet to get this game (on 360).

Rest assured, there will be a fresh lot of customers in the coming weeks.

How many of us purchased our first 3 star weapon from the shop, simply because in the first day there weren't any player shops to buy from? When the servers start seeing fresh players, the market will refresh itself as well. Also, since many of us have lv100 pms, there might not be enough incentive for some players to raise pms for synthing, rather it would be much less expensive and much more convenient to buy from other players.

It's that whole past/present/future thing. Stay positive! Perhaps there's a use for that 99 stack of soldonium yet!



lol maybe 3 people on the japanese 360 will join us

[wrentypo]

What the hell is a "mat"? Is that an archaic term for "board"?

[vg_geek86]

On 2006-11-08 01:03, KiteWolfwood wrote:
It is called economic fluctuation. In a new economy the prices and demand for certain things will fluctuate a lot as the economy tries to find a balancing point.



Nail on the head. We'll see change in the future as more shops open.
*Question is, will it be for the better, or worse?*



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vg_geek86 on 2006-11-08 16:58 ]</font>

[JamesKilton]

On 2006-11-08 16:48, wrentypo wrote:
What the hell is a "mat"? Is that an archaic term for "board"?



"mat" is short for "material"

[Dire]

I have no problem selling vullseyes and dualies for 16k on the 360. Might the problem be that just about everybody and their cousin decided to make a striking PM? I'm sure hajirods go even better than 16k.

[SonicTMP]

hey look an economy thread. Every single player economy in every online rpg-like game sucks. Nothign you can do about it other than make what money you can, sell those super rares for a billion dollars and keep grinding till you get what you want.

As of now... even thinking we should have an economy is pointless. Everyone can synth the exact same things. There is no real spealization. You want to say how you raise your PM helps? All you do is raise the success rate a little bit for 1 of 4 areas. Doesn't mean you can't craft ther other three areas and get decent results.

Also people, 5 stars isn't rare and none can even use 6star stuff yet due to the cap. The shops should be selling up to abuot 6-7 stars by default once we get the content released. Basic equipement up to the end of A-rank is something EVERYONE will be using.

If you can make a double cannon then go ahead and gouge, but don't expect to get the big bucks for an elemental A rank. It's standard equipment for all.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

Id love to buy 5* weapons for 9999, if I could actually find them...most shops i go to they are selling for 20000 and have no grinds or elementals on them.........sigh i hate retards who do that

[Xx3of19xX]

I still think it was a mistake by Sonic Team to make weapons "bind on equip", in essense only be usable by the first person who equips them. Now the market is getting very saturated with low level weapons as people sell off items they have outgrown and this will continue with higher weaps over time. I think it will be very hard for new players to get a foothold economically.

Also regarding the 360 market, has that bug that ensured 100% successrate when synthing been fixed yet (been busy playing Story mode this past week since GL isn't available for EU yet)? If not it would explain the lower prices on the 360 version.