From a Force: Dear Hunters, Please Stop That

[KirinDave]

Hello Hunters, I am the Force in your party. I may be one of many, or the only one, but regardless, I'm here to tell you something.

Please, please, please stop scattering groups of slow mobs!

I understand certain PAs you have do this. I also understand you do great damage and this is very cool. But despite that, if you work with the entire team, we'll all do a lot more damage and work a lot faster.

When you see a group of mobs, put the Saber and Knuckles away. Pull out the Sword or Spear. Start wailing away but try to keep them grouped! Why? Because I'm going to start using my Ra-spells. With both of us doing group damage, we're going to drop them all more quickly.

But if you scatter the groups all apart, neither of us can fight more than a mob or two at once. We can do this, but it inefficient all the way around. We could be doing so much more than splitting up into a bunch of small solo groups.

I know you can't always do this. And against some enemies, it makes no sense to do it, so I am not going to yell or get huffy if you don't. But I do want to tell you, just in case you didn't know.

So please, let me help you by supplementing your awesome damage with mine, and . Help me in tagging. We both win.

[Tenzntwentiez]

amen. Though i dont expect anyting to change.

[Genobee]

cry more please.

[-Shimarisu-]

Eh it doesn't bother me.

[Garasu]

Im a hunter and I also hate the monsters flying around, its annoying...

[MaKaVeLi_X]

Yeah im a hunter, but it even annoys me when u have a mob of 6 enemys in a small space and someone has to use a PA and make them scatter =/. So dumb.

[Mystil]

I don't like them grouped together because they have a nasty tendacy to gang up on one person. Golmoros grouped together can be seriously overwhelming to. Goushins anyone? The robot dudes? So I disperse them all the time with Rising Crush.

[klunka]

On 2006-11-10 10:32, Genobee wrote:
cry more please.


Wow, god forbid someone try to instill some actual teamwork into game play huh?

[AlMcFly]

Uuuuuum, from the other point of view, it is way more beneficial to scatter. As forces, you hardly have to worry about getting hit initially. But when monsters stay group together (ala Vahras for a prime example), the hunter gets hit like 3 or 4 times in a row by 3 or 4 monsters. At high levels that is deadly. Spreading them out weakens them as a unit. Basic war strategy, divide the enemy.

[SoujiSeta]

Stop telling people how to play the game.

[Aaomi]

In the linear line I play with groups of only hunters and seperating them there is helpful ^.^

The ones who can't attack when you are behind them are easily soloable, so just tag them all then seperate them.

It is a nice change up from the mixxed parties http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Yoiyami]

Missing and wasting PP constantly gets infuriating and tiring. It's because everyone is constantly smacking on them and knocking them everywhere. So I understand, but all that means is that timing your spells and positioning on your part becomes essential, which also becomes tiring.

So, trust me, I know. Unless you're in a group of friends, you're probably not going to find people who are willing to change their weapon of choice. So, you'll just have to work on your strategies as a force if you plan on being one. =/

[Kyuu]

Hint: if the enemies get scattered, use Foie/Diga/insert-high-damage-single-target-spell-here. They're much more PP-efficient anyways.

And yes, I play a FO sometimes. Usually, I can get in a few hits of Rafoie or whatever, then I wail away with Diga or Foie if the enemies get scattered. It's not that big a deal really.

Also, you have to look at it from the Hunters' point of view: enemies grouped together can gang-bang one person and knock down their health very quickly. Keeping the enemy busy and avoiding taking damage is much easier when the enemies are scattered.

Then, those PAs also keep the enemies up in the air and on the ground, where they can't attack and are easier targets.

Plus, those PAs are fun. I mean really.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kyuu on 2006-11-10 10:59 ]</font>

[physic]

its a hard balance, but manipulating knowing how to manipulate the enemies position is a big part of being a hunter, there are times when its good to keep em together and times when you are best seperating them, but ill tell you this, getting mobbed is often the way to lose your srank, id recomend you split them up if your dont have a beast tank with some decent gear or your gona be losing sranks more. there are also enemies who its way better to down, like the casters, the worms, and enemies you want seprated like the robots in grove. There is no hard fast rule for this its situational, just like sometimes its good to use a spear, other times its going to get you killed.

[Weak]

Photon Arts with Knockback effects are there for a reason.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-10 10:47, klunka wrote:

On 2006-11-10 10:32, Genobee wrote:
cry more please.


Wow, god forbid someone try to instill some actual teamwork into game play huh?



god forbid some one doesn't cry foul against another class.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-10 11:18 ]</font>

[Mint_B]

On 2006-11-10 10:49, McFlyVII wrote:
Uuuuuum, from the other point of view, it is way more beneficial to scatter. As forces, you hardly have to worry about getting hit initially. But when monsters stay group together (ala Vahras for a prime example), the hunter gets hit like 3 or 4 times in a row by 3 or 4 monsters. At high levels that is deadly. Spreading them out weakens them as a unit. Basic war strategy, divide the enemy.



Not trying to be rude but while we're on the topic of basic war strategy, the OP is simply saying use your weapons like swords/spears etc. to keep them clustered so the forces can drop them quickly and efficiently. Also, when all of your opponents are comming from one direction it allows more flexibility when for them to move away and find a better position.

There's certainly a time and place for both strategies. But what do I know? I'm a ranger...

[Ammy]

for shits and giggles i did exactly what you said, OP, and what happened? Dragon B 6 Vahras (sp) came out, I took my spear and attacked.

Instead of scattering them like I normally do so we all concentrate on one enemy one by one, they all of a sudden surrounded me, and hit me at the same time, taking me from 1324 HP to 0, and the force couldn't heal me fast enough.

Truth is, you can't just grab a sword or spear and just try to keep them all grouped together, even if you're standing behind them, they just whip around and give you a free punch to the face.

Someone else did the same thing earlier in dragon A, and got surrounded eventually and ruined the S rank at the last wave right before De Ragan. the scatter ability is there for a purpose. Besides, ive been counting and I seems my Rising strike scatters only 4 or so at a time.

[Elleranda]

On 2006-11-10 11:35, Ammy wrote:
for shits and giggles i did exactly what you said, OP, and what happened? Dragon B 6 Vahras (sp) came out, I took my spear and attacked.

Instead of scattering them like I normally do so we all concentrate on one enemy one by one, they all of a sudden surrounded me, and hit me at the same time, taking me from 1324 HP to 0, and the force couldn't heal me fast enough.

Truth is, you can't just grab a sword or spear and just try to keep them all grouped together, even if you're standing behind them, they just whip around and give you a free punch to the face.

Someone else did the same thing earlier in dragon A, and got surrounded eventually and ruined the S rank at the last wave right before De Ragan. the scatter ability is there for a purpose. Besides, ive been counting and I seems my Rising strike scatters only 4 or so at a time.



I do it all the time. But swords are better than spears for that particular use.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-10 11:35, Ammy wrote:
for shits and giggles i did exactly what you said, OP, and what happened? Dragon B 6 Vahras (sp) came out, I took my spear and attacked.

Instead of scattering them like I normally do so we all concentrate on one enemy one by one, they all of a sudden surrounded me, and hit me at the same time, taking me from 1324 HP to 0, and the force couldn't heal me fast enough.

Ahh. See, the flipside of this is that you have people supporting you on this. When I am in a group with friends, the way we handle this is that I time my spells to the lulls in your combos. Likewise, rangers in a group help enormously.

I thought I was pretty clear that it doesn't always make sense to do this. But it's undeniable that if your team can pull it off it is more efficient in nearly every way: time, PP, health and healing. If every hit can land on 3 enemies, things work really well.


Truth is, you can't just grab a sword or spear and just try to keep them all grouped together, even if you're standing behind them, they just whip around and give you a free punch to the face.

Absolutely. You need support. I don't want to make it sound like I think it's only hunters who aren't working as a team, it is forces and rangers too.


Someone else did the same thing earlier in dragon A, and got surrounded eventually and ruined the S rank at the last wave right before De Ragan. the scatter ability is there for a purpose. Besides, ive been counting and I seems my Rising strike scatters only 4 or so at a time.


Please do not interpret my suggestion as dogma to always be followed. For example, it makes a lot less sense to do this against things in Relics runs, and certain enemies on Neudaiz just don't move enough to make this worthwhile.

In a group with 2 forces, 2 hunters and a ranger that all know what they are doing, you'd be shocked how fast we can drop things when we know how to set up teamwork. 2 hunters working together can knock enemies into groups and pin them down while doing terrific damage, and the rangers and forces hold them in place with spell stuns and seal the deal.

[jarek99]

Blame the game design, not hunters. I've tried not to scatter mobs and got clobbered for 250+ each by 4 enemies. The end result, the force has to heal instead of tagging all the mobs, which results in the force getting little or no exp. The description of a force clearly states that its for advanced users. Its a difficult class to play. Deal with it or change classes.

[KirinDave]

Hmm. I need to figure how to do a video cap on Xbox360 so I can show what I mean. I'd probably have to buy an external device. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

I am sure there are teams on PC with great teamwork that could FRAPS it? Anyone wanna show off your team's skill?

[AlphaMinotaux]

On 2006-11-10 10:49, McFlyVII wrote:
Uuuuuum, from the other point of view, it is way more beneficial to scatter. As forces, you hardly have to worry about getting hit initially. But when monsters stay group together (ala Vahras for a prime example), the hunter gets hit like 3 or 4 times in a row by 3 or 4 monsters. At high levels that is deadly. Spreading them out weakens them as a unit. Basic war strategy, divide the enemy.



QFT

[SonicTMP]

The thing is most of the melee PA's have a knockback ability and the AoE ones only tend to hit 3 mobs at once. So if you get a group of 6 and don't try to scatter some your going to get hurt.

Thast from the melee side of things. THough my question is, does everyone HAVE to use diga with a staff? YOu have a slow hard to aim flaming rock with a slow but powerful casting weapon. Does any other force out there actually use wands for attackign and actually the other attack techs? IT seems everyone's loicked into one tech and thats it... :/

[Aaomi]

This is why I believe they gave us the option of only using the first half of the PAs, so you can choose to still do some good quick damage w/o the knockback.

Note: I am a Dagger user, not sure if the saber's first combo is or isn't a problem for forces.

[Kie]

I understand how you feel sence im a fo and tryign to get my barta up but then some hunter comes in and scaters everythign XD but saying them not you use PAs is like telling you not to use spells

[Varon]

Im sorry but as a force myself I dont see what your complaining about
either you depend too highly on your magic than I do~ or your just not good at what your doing

[jarek99]

I have a good friend that is an excellent force. No one ever dies with him in the party. However, he complains about the force class. Most of his complaints are valid and voiced often...usually too often. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif He also likes the mobs grouped up so he can AE them. This can often result in the hunter getting clobbered by 3-4 mobs. Then he gets upset that we are being careless with our hit points and he has to lose experience (by not killing or tagging every mob) to heal us. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Whats a hunter supposed to do? Just not use the majority of their PAs?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jarek99 on 2006-11-10 12:05 ]</font>

[Ryogen]

Cry Me a River. If your a Force, deal with your troubles and maybe tag everyhing with a gun before you use your wand. No offence. I'm a Ranger and a Hunter, but you crying to us to put away our weapons?! Go play by yourself or with other forces and rangers. I'm pretty sure rangers will take em out before ya get to it anyway. If that hapens in your party, you ask them, don't come to us. :|

Also scattering the enemy is a good thing. I'm pretty sure you don't want Varaha's surrounding you. As a force you would be food at that point in time.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryogen on 2006-11-10 12:06 ]</font>

[Elleranda]

On 2006-11-10 12:04, jarek99 wrote:
I have a good friend that is an excellent force. No one ever dies with him in the party. However, he complains about the force class. Most of his complaints are valid and voiced often...usually too often. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif He also likes the mobs grouped up so he can AE them. This can often result in the hunter getting clobbered by 3-4 mobs. Then he gets upset that we are being careless with our hit points and he has to lose experience (by not killing or tagging every mob) to heal us. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.

Whats a hunter supposed to do? Just not use the majority of their PAs?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jarek99 on 2006-11-10 12:05 ]</font>


Dump the whiner and play with someone better! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Varon]

On 2006-11-10 12:04, Ryogen wrote:
Cry Me a River. If your a Force, deal with your troubles and maybe tag everyhing with a gun before you use your wand. No offence. I'm a Ranger and a Hunter, but you crying to us to put away our weapons?! Go play by yourself or with other forces and rangers. I'm pretty sure rangers will take em out before ya get to it anyway. If that hapens in your party, you ask them, don't come to us. :|

Also scattering the enemy is a good thing. I'm pretty sure you don't want Varaha's surrounding you. As a force you would be food at that point in time.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryogen on 2006-11-10 12:06 ]</font>
exactly the point if he cant tag with his magic use a gun there efficient

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-10 12:04, Ryogen wrote:
Cry Me a River. If your a Force, deal with your troubles and maybe tag everyhing with a gun before you use your wand. No offence. I'm a Ranger and a Hunter, but you crying to us to put away our weapons?! Go play by yourself or with other forces and rangers. I'm pretty sure rangers will take em out before ya get to it anyway. If that hapens in your party, you ask them, don't come to us. :|


This isn't really about tagging. Believe me, I use a gun to tag, and I have as many canes as rods because I don't want to slow everyone down. This is about keeping the mobs in a formation where everyone can do maximum damage, and things will die faster. Dead enemies do no damage.


On 2006-11-10 12:04, jarek99 wrote:

Whats a hunter supposed to do? Just not use the majority of their PAs?



Not at all. But try to be smart about when you knock things around. If 6 mobs are approaching and you're worried about being mobbed, try and toss three away then proceed to hold the other three in place. If you see two separated monsters and you outnumber them, toss them into a group. Believe me, I wish I could throw people around with my Force, because I'd love to assemble them into small groups so we can maximize our output.

Too many people see even groups of two mobs and separate them gleefully. Party splits and now the damage output on each is halved. It just takes longer.

And separating is the way to go if your team refuses to work together. Then you turn it into a series of solo fights. Works fine, but it could be fast.

[Ryogen]

On 2006-11-10 12:14, KirinDave wrote:

On 2006-11-10 12:04, Ryogen wrote:
Cry Me a River. If your a Force, deal with your troubles and maybe tag everyhing with a gun before you use your wand. No offence. I'm a Ranger and a Hunter, but you crying to us to put away our weapons?! Go play by yourself or with other forces and rangers. I'm pretty sure rangers will take em out before ya get to it anyway. If that hapens in your party, you ask them, don't come to us. :|


This isn't really about tagging. Believe me, I use a gun to tag, and I have as many canes as rods because I don't want to slow everyone down. This is about keeping the mobs in a formation where everyone can do maximum damage, and things will die faster. Dead enemies do no damage.


Think about this, what if we told the forces to stop using wands and just use your gun. Would you do it?

[ChocoboChad]

On 2006-11-10 11:56, SonicTMP wrote:
Thast from the melee side of things. THough my question is, does everyone HAVE to use diga with a staff? YOu have a slow hard to aim flaming rock with a slow but powerful casting weapon. Does any other force out there actually use wands for attackign and actually the other attack techs? IT seems everyone's loicked into one tech and thats it... :/


Simply TECHNIC leveling.

I don't know about other forces, but I'm obsessed with keeping my techs even. Spells like foie and diga are naturally higher from boss battles and things like Polahvorah(sp?).

But I don't know, maybe there are people out there that just play with one technic...

Anyways, back to enemy scattering:

I hate it, but I don't really care anyway. It is annoying when using Ra spells, but it all works out in the end.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-10 12:18, Ryogen wrote:
Think about this, what if we told the forces to stop using wands and just use your gun. Would you do it?


I already switch weapons. I have 2 cane/gun combos, 2 rods, and a bow. I use whatever makes the most sense. In relics I use an ice cane and a well-ground handgun on all the little hoppers, and I switch to a Diga Rod for the large HP heavy targets and the boss.

So you don't need to ask. I am already doing it.

Heck, why would I voluntarily reduce my damage output by using a rod all the time? Canes do much more damage than rods when you chain cast, because their spell casting rate is 2x the speed of a rod, but they do like 75% the damage.

[jarek99]

Not at all. But try to be smart about when you knock things around. If 6 mobs are approaching and you're worried about being mobbed, try and toss three away then proceed to hold the other three in place. If you see two separated monsters and you outnumber them, toss them into a group. Believe me, I wish I could throw people around with my Force, because I'd love to assemble them into small groups so we can maximize our output.
Picking the exact mob that you want to knock around out a crowd isn't an exact science. Sometimes whatever happens, happens when you fling the mob(s) across the room. We cant even tell wtf a force is attacking. Most of the time we see forces nuking the walls (no idea what causes this but I assume its lag). I'm not going to tiptoe around mobs to satisfy everyone. I would recommend forces to tag every mob in the room with a gun before attempting to get any kill shots. Once you've got everything tagged, start dropping bombs. Even I tag mobs with guns from time to time as a hunter. If we can do it, yall can too.

[Ryogen]

On 2006-11-10 12:25, KirinDave wrote:

On 2006-11-10 12:18, Ryogen wrote:
Think about this, what if we told the forces to stop using wands and just use your gun. Would you do it?


I already switch weapons. I have 2 cane/gun combos, 2 rods, and a bow. I use whatever makes the most sense. In relics I use an ice cane and a well-ground handgun on all the little hoppers, and I switch to a Diga Rod for the large HP heavy targets and the boss.

So you don't need to ask. I am already doing it.

Heck, why would I voluntarily reduce my damage output by using a rod all the time? Canes do much more damage than rods when you chain cast, because their spell casting rate is 2x the speed of a rod, but they do like 75% the damage.





NO, I mean don't even use anything else. Just use that pistol, becusae we are tired of your majick(lol). Would you do it?

[physic]

its just a different science, you want to group together for AE dmg, another technique is to seperate them and take em on one on one, or have 3 concentrate on one a 3 on the other. There are many different posiible techniques depending on the situation, and playstyle of the people, but this type of stuff wont come in to effect till the levels get higher difficulty, or they have some type of level whee you have to do this. like grove or whatever. Like A rank grove you now got to concentrate on mages or they ll heal people for a decent amount.

Basically though, you want people to do what you like, which may be good, but thats really just one style of playing that you prefer, another fo may prefer a single target spell with heavy dmg. i will tell you as a hunter, trying to get the people mobbed usually causes a lotof dmg, you exchange your hp for dmg essentially.

[HC82]

Spreading enemies out is great ONLY if the enemies are AGGRESIVE. A group of enhanced Vahras can be dangeous, so a knock back or juggle is in order.

I don't get for the life of me why people spread out a group and badria when they are totally harmless, even on A rank they are push overs. They usually appear in 6's so, it makes more sense to bust out twin daggers or a sword, not a saber to spread them all around. it takes longer to take them out individually, then for the team to use group attacks.

Common sense goes a long way.

Single strike digas equates to less overall damage then a 3 hit RAdiga. So, it's good for players to think what is more efficient for the team, as apposed to what levels up my saber PA faster.

Unless there is no force in the group, knock backs are always in order. It does lessen damage, overall, because enemies can't gang bang you, but slows down the speed of killing.

[Yoruichi]

Physical CC = less DPS inccoming to group and less damage taken by the group the less you have to heal and can enjoy your force for nuking purposes or even using the bow.

[Zio]

me hunter, me smash lul

[Cause_I_Own_U]

I guess dual swords arent so worthless after all, both PA parts just sent htem straight up in the air, not scatter them 5 thousand feet away in all direction

[PJesus]

What KirinDave is saying makes a lot of sense, especially if you're trying to clear rooms faster in order to get money etc faster. Just be considerate of large groupings with forces and don't go all apesh*t with your photon arts is all he's saying.. it's perfectly reasonable..

[PJesus]

*EDIT* Double post.. sorry.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PJesus on 2006-11-10 13:47 ]</font>

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-10 13:40, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
I guess dual swords arent so worthless after all, both PA parts just sent htem straight up in the air, not scatter them 5 thousand feet away in all direction



Where spells and bullets and other melee can still easily hit them, yes. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I silently cheer whenever I see the rare twin sword user, because I really enjoy working with their photon art.

[Reeve]

strange we can have FOcasts and noone on here will raise an eyebrow but when a hunter scatters enemies which can 'hurt' forces cry a river, i suppose we cant play our own way afterall

as has been said many times there are advantages to scattering, obviously its not nessecary on cannonfodder enemies but the harder hitting ones you would be risking too much letting hunters getting their faces mashed in all the time

tbh i dont even notice much scattering and i stopped using 1h sabers a long time ago, i use double daggers and spears myself and most of the high level hunters use similar from what ive seen

also remember we dont tag all the enemies all the time either, we dont have aoes which tag an infinite number of enemies and if we want to tag them all we either have ot whip out our gun or move our sorry asses over to untagged enemies which is cosiderably slower than moving the direction your character is facing by 10 degrees and firing a shot

[AlMcFly]

It seems to me that this whole arguement started out as a force trying to explain how it is more efficient to group mobs together. In actuallity, it is ONLY efficient to forces.

When grouped together, they can tag everyone, and not use mass amounts of PP doing it. Grouped mobs however do not in any way help hunters and rangers. Hunters who are at an increased risk have to stab through and hope to hit them all. Also hunters are unable to use PA's in that situation which does two things: not allow them to level PA and not allow them to deal their greatest amount of damage which "IS" the PA. Rangers will only hit the front row of the mob unless they circle around them completely. Ranger's can PA mobs which is really helpful but when you think about it, they are only really hitting one enemy at a time anyway.

Now is it right that we should put aside max damage and fast kills to accomodate forces that want to conserve PP? Iono ;P.

[Witchblade56]

Firstly i havent read a single post on this thread concerning the use of weapons that are -STRONG- [read: elementally oppositional to the mobs element] against certain mob element types.

Secondly i go in with a great sword swing and hit as many mobs as i can whilst drawing them together to have my force or my groups force get the exp they need/want out of the deal. Then they can skill whatever spell they so desire in order to become the best possible member of the team when it comes to doing A rank.

Kirindave kudos for dealing with the random party people that have shown a clearly inept attitude towards the overall team picture.

As for me, even when in a random pt, i play like i do with my regular pts. I'm not out to hog the exp and kill everything before the force has a shot at getting some exp. Swing that great sword around and tag the mobs them draw aggro period. Force gets their shots in as does the ranger. After that initial attack its: weapon pallette => Dual saber => Rising crush to my hearts content without worrying that my force is going without.

For those hunters that are against this point of view remember its playstyle and personally? I like getting invites from random people that i have had the chance to party with. Making new friends is great and ya know what? I'm almost freaking Lv30 and im not racing to the level cap; Im farming and having a good time!

Also my friend complained to me lastnight that he couldnt get to the items fast enough to pick them up... he didnt realize that items [meseta too] were set to order and rares were set to random. I really felt bad for him when i read that in the chat =/ I was like "Dont worry youll get your share of items and rares are randomed to whomever." I dont like going into rooms that arent set up in this way; its very stressful in those room set ups -_-;

[kaseius]

NO, FAIRSKY, I WILL NOT STOP SCATTERING THEM WITH MY SINGLE DAGGER

YOU SHALL LEARN TO FEAR THE PIRATE LESBIAN HOOKER, MIRAU.

[Bahamut89]

Only sabers and fists do this. It's not like we're asking you to stop using PAs, we're asking you to maybe carry around another type of weapon.

Anyway, some points:

1. Diga isn't really that slow. As a non-ra spell, it's actually one of the faster force spells. If you think using a slow spell is the cause of a force's problems, you are severely overestimating the casting speed of a force. Rods are another problem. I prefer wands for damage and aiming, but I can see why someone might want a rod for the PP. They shouldn't complain about it though, if they chose it.

2. Diga does more damage than Radiga per hit, but Radiga hits 3 enemies. Radiga is more efficient damage-wise. Any intelligent force would prefer a Ra-spell if the enemies were clustered. Separating is not helpful to force damage in any way. In fact, I'd say running up and healing a hunter next to a cluster of enemies takes less time away from damage than turning around all the time trying to aim Digas in various directions. By the way, Ra-spells can only hit 3 enemies. Forces don't automatically tag every enemy in a cluster any more than hunters do, especially since it's difficult to control which enemies get hit.

No comment about hunter survivability. If you need to do it to survive, you need to do it. Just realize that you're sacrificing some force efficiency while doing it, so you can make a slightly more informed choice about it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bahamut89 on 2006-11-10 14:45 ]</font>

[physic]

like mcfly said its advantageous to the forces, not necearilly evry one else. my experience with cluster s of mobs aside from low level ones, is its bad someone ends up yellow, even if you kill the mobs it can be worse, (grove 3 selfdestructing at once + various attacks you can dodge cause you are surrounded)
there is another way to group the mobs, but iut requires a lot of ninja man running and thus is sacrificing the dmg you could do, hey i love grouping mobs if i can too, makes ae attacks like sword and dual dagger very efficient, but truth is in some situations, these weapons are not the best way to deal with the enemies, just like there are situations were razond rocks, there are situations where it sucks
BTW a lot of the third strikes of pas have some type of knockdown at the end of them, soo the trend of st, will mess up your plans, less you say the guys shouldnt use 3 pa,s then its a question of who does more dmg.

[Witchblade56]

Bahamut read my post above lol; says pretty much what youre talking about.

To be quite blunt if a hunter is disinclined to acquiesce [Definition: to assent tacitly;agree or submit or comply silently without protest] and meet the needs of the party you kick their asses to the curb period. For anyone that has played to level 30 [my current level atm] its not always a timing issue; its about working well together. Timing you worry about with people that you party regularly with, day in and day out whenever you all are together online at the same time.

Anyways that's my thought on the matter.

[FAHR-3NH317]

Good points all. It all comes down to play style. The battles are furious, so if you want everything to be under perfect control all the time yer dreaming. Me as hunter, i use a long sword on groups of monsters... I run in and do some AoE before backing off and firing the mobs away from the force/ranger(s). If I have no Photon in my long sword its all about saber PAs. It maddness pure maddness... how about you try to stay in parties that dont suck, stay alive and tag everything you can. Amen

[Phaze37]

As a hunter I like to use my PAs for all of my weapons, all of the time. I think I use PAs more than regular attacks most of the time, because I have to use them to level them up. If I'm playing with you and you have a problem with this, just tell me. I'm a reasonable person so if my playstyle is negatively affecting yours, just let me know and I'll do what I can to help you out, but until someone tells me to stop I'm going to keep levelling up those PAs.

[AlMcFly]

Sorry, I laughed a lot at this post, lol, k here we go:


On 2006-11-10 14:50, Witchblade56 wrote:
To be quite blunt if a hunter is disinclined to acquiesce [Definition: to assent tacitly;agree or submit or comply silently without protest] and meet the needs of the party you kick their asses to the curb period.

Lol, I heard that phrase on "Pirates of the Carribean" too. We also all have access to dictionairy.com. Does it make me sound more intelligent to talk intelligently? Not really.


For anyone that has played to level 30 [my current level atm]

About 80% of us are high leveled. I myself have a cast hunter at level 43. Does throwing out your level sway us any more to your point of view? Nope.


its not always a timing issue; its about working well together. Timing you worry about with people that you party regularly with, day in and day out whenever you all are together online at the same time.


Now I completely agree with this, but it is all you had to say. Throwing out that other nonsense is unnecessary and is only used to pad your ego. Please stop and be real for once ;P.

*edit* I still believe hunters with PA's create far more damage than forces. My spear does 3 regular attacks for 160 (with the occasional critical) and then does 5 PA hits for 250-350 each. I also take into account elements considering I carry 6 5 star GRM Halberts for every element. You do the numbers.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: McFlyVII on 2006-11-10 15:13 ]</font>

[Ryo_Hayasa]

On 2006-11-10 14:20, McFlyVII wrote:
It seems to me that this whole arguement started out as a force trying to explain how it is more efficient to group mobs together. In actuallity, it is ONLY efficient to forces.

When grouped together, they can tag everyone, and not use mass amounts of PP doing it. Grouped mobs however do not in any way help hunters and rangers. Hunters who are at an increased risk have to stab through and hope to hit them all. Also hunters are unable to use PA's in that situation which does two things: not allow them to level PA and not allow them to deal their greatest amount of damage which "IS" the PA. Rangers will only hit the front row of the mob unless they circle around them completely. Ranger's can PA mobs which is really helpful but when you think about it, they are only really hitting one enemy at a time anyway.

Now is it right that we should put aside max damage and fast kills to accomodate forces that want to conserve PP? Iono ;P.




^--- I liked how that was explained. Funny thing is, i was thinking to myself

"I wonder how the FOs in my party feel when i slam monsters every which way, it must be real hard for them to target, but if i don't spread them out they'll slaughter us/me"

This is either a hit or miss, personally i don't use a spear or Sword, mainly because i have plans on becoming a Figunner, so i don't have a use for those weapons, (thus why i refuse to learn PAs for either weapon and waste space) However i do understand that FOs have a hard time targeting everything, but....

by the time we start complaining, aren't all the monsters dead anyway?

Hunters will be hunters and we have our own plans for baddies, Heck i try to keep monsters far away from eachother as possible, since well, they're strong in numbers and i've found myself TWICE now getting hit three times in a row in less than a second by sword and shield baddies and kill me. (that's beside the point though)

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-10 14:34, kaseius wrote:
NO, FAIRSKY, I WILL NOT STOP SCATTERING THEM WITH MY SINGLE DAGGER

YOU SHALL LEARN TO FEAR THE PIRATE LESBIAN HOOKER, MIRAU.



IT IS JAMMED! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-10 14:20, McFlyVII wrote:
It seems to me that this whole arguement started out as a force trying to explain how it is more efficient to group mobs together. In actuallity, it is ONLY efficient to forces.

Is this really true? Several Hunter weapons hit like trucks and hit clustered enemies. Your PA's also benefit from clustering, you get a much better Dam/PP ratio with your weapons. Most of the big weapons have higher damage than the little single target ones too.

Seems like if you can make a sword connect on at least 2 enemies at once, you're already ahead in comparison to a saber. So long as you have people to watch your back as you finish your combo, I can't really see any downside. No one is saying that scattering is always a bad idea, if you do it to survive or to break up a group that's too big to handle.

It is more efficient for the party to stay together from a healing perspective too, spells and Star Atomizers (and hopefully soon, buffs) have ranges. Having to do it more than once because of outliers is a pain for all involved.

Now when a boss rolls around it's obviously different.



Also hunters are unable to use PA's in that situation which does two things: not allow them to level PA and not allow them to deal their greatest amount of damage which "IS" the PA.

I thought only a few PAs actually send enemies flying. Some don't, some send opponents up, and some knock them down, right?


Rangers will only hit the front row of the mob unless they circle around them completely. Ranger's can PA mobs which is really helpful but when you think about it, they are only really hitting one enemy at a time anyway.

Rangers do different things depending on enemy formation, from what I've observed. I'm anxious to get my Force to 10 so tht I can start on the ranger.


Now is it right that we should put aside max damage and fast kills to accomodate forces that want to conserve PP? Iono ;P.

No. If this strategy makes the group go slower, there is no point. In my experience, it doesn't make anyone go slower. I am not so psycho as to already be pressing the level cap, so your milage may vary. I've watched some hunters throw mobs INTO groups so that their swords could come into play, which is what inspired this post to begin with. When I realized how effective it was for them, I also saw how good it was for me.

[Buggy]

Eh I'm a hunter and I hate it when people use knock backs, its not that its a pain that they scatter(trust me I hate being the tank) but when I am about to use my dual knife PA and it just wasted it because some idiot uses a move that does like 1/3 my dmg to the mobs its kinda retarded.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to play the game, just think about how it effects others, I mean I understand your trying to do dmg but when you come into a game and your like 10lvls under someone why mess them up? For your extra 10exp?

GG

**Edit** ahh my first post and I am complaining, yes I feel like a newb

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Buggy on 2006-11-10 15:21 ]</font>

[Witchblade56]

McFly it aint about padding the ego; nice of you to read what you wanted out of the post. I'm not entirely clear on the whole A rank [as i am low level] and so dont know if timing indeed becomes an issue when youre doing missions that high. If it does then i stand to be educated on the issue. If it isnt then again i will point out that killing quickly should mainly be the concerns of you and your static party that you regularly party with. Random party pick ups to meet newer people to populate your friends list is what i do randoms for. You never know who will be online to hang out with after your static shuts down for the night, and yes there is nothing wrong with partying with other people after said "static" is through for the evening.

That's great youre level 43 I'm glad for you. Starting in with attacking someone just exemplifies for the rest fo us that your point of view is narrow and you specifically look for a bickering match on the forums.

As far as being real? This is a phantasy universe; i however havent bothered with taking the time to post screen shots of various . . . whatevers that i feel the need to pad my ego with.

I submit that part of your closing statement was appropriate, the last bit was ... hypocritical? Don't go on the attack with people and you wont get hit with the consequences. Kthx I'm done with you.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Witchblade56 on 2006-11-10 15:27 ]</font>

[Pandatron]

If your a effective force you'll find some way shape or form to:

1) be able to tag every creature at least once.
2) make sure a party member doesn't die due to lack of heals.
3) reverser if time allows, otherwise most hunters don't mind burning a bit... being frozen or paralyzed that's another story ^_^;;;.

In either case not sure if my siggy is up to date but this is comming from a 31 Force and i've had little to no problem tagging stuff no matter how there scarried around.

Simple conclusion if there mobbed use an AOE RA spell if there scattered wipe out the bow and start tagging the stuff or a gun with a cane takes care of the same job. That's my perspective of it anyway for once i didn't actually read the whole thread shun the thought so feel free to flame or comment.

[AlMcFly]

On 2006-11-10 15:26, Witchblade56 wrote:
McFly it aint about padding the ego; nice of you to read what you wanted out of the post. I'm not entirely clear on the whole A rank [as i am low level] and so dont know if timing indeed becomes an issue when youre doing missions that high. If it does then i stand to be educated on the issue. If it isnt then again i will point out that killing quickly should mainly be the concerns of you and your static party that you regularly party with. Random party pick ups to meet newer people to populate your friends list is what i do randoms for. You never know who will be online to hang out with after your static shuts down for the night, and yes there is nothing wrong with partying with other people after said "static" is through for the evening.

That's great youre level 43 I'm glad for you. Starting in with attacking someone just exemplifies for the rest fo us that your point of view is narrow and you specifically look for a bickering match on the forums.

As far as being real? This is a phantasy universe; i however havent bothered with taking the time to post screen shots of various . . . whatevers that i feel the need to pad my ego with.

I submit that part of your closing statement was appropriate, the last bit was ... hypocritical? Don't go on the attack with people and you wont get hit with the consequences. Kthx I'm done with you.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Witchblade56 on 2006-11-10 15:27 ]</font>


Haha, those were SOME consequences I tell you what, lol. In case you didn't notice, I completely agreed with the main point of your arguement. In no way was I throwing my stats out to gloat. I just hate when people write things that have no relevance to the topic with the sole intention to make people "believe" that you may know what you are talking about. With that out of the way:

I will mainly speak about A rank missions. Your arguements hinge on the fact that the monsters will be stunned or stunned enough for a hunter to dodge anything. It also hinges on the fact that you will have great support, which in MOST cases, you don't (ie: forces healing at right times instead of trying to tech the mob). In almost every A rank mission so far, just about every monster no longer gets stunned hardly. They still do, but not nearly as easily as in B rank.

This said, slower but more powerful weapons that do not knock back (namely Spears/Swords) give you so much delay between moves that monsters just brush off the attack and slap the shit out of you. ;P

*edit* Also, if you have never played A rank, and are doing all this complaining about B rank, then you have serious issues. A rank is BY FAR a whole new ballgame compared to B rank. I was soloing B ranks at lvl 15-20. At level 43 I still can barely solo A ranks. B ranks are a joke.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: McFlyVII on 2006-11-10 15:49 ]</font>

[FenixStryk]

On 2006-11-10 10:32, Genobee wrote:
cry more please.Wow dude, not only is this a blatant flame, you don't support your view whatsoever, and what's left of your point is complete stupidity. That's really something I'd expect on GameFAQs, but not here.

To the TC, you actually make a good point. I'll keep that in mind if/when I switch to a Hunter.

[_Deliverance_]

The game is not difficult enough to make this an important strat. Yes, it works. No, it's not necessary.

[Alisha]

im not trying to be an ass but why not level techs on your own time? i make a concerted effort to do this with my various ranger bullets. also with say a saber i sometimes love to just use the first part of rising strike then hit monster while they are on the ground without fear of retaliation.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-11-10 17:00 ]</font>

[necman]

If you really want people to fight as a team the best solution would be to find some friends to quest with that have the same ideas and goals. It's real difficult to ask someone to play a style they don't like. In an unrelated question seing as I don't get the game till tomorrow what's all this talk and worries about all this s rank stuff.

[Mystil]

On 2006-11-10 11:57, Aaomi wrote:
This is why I believe they gave us the option of only using the first half of the PAs, so you can choose to still do some good quick damage w/o the knockback.

Note: I am a Dagger user, not sure if the saber's first combo is or isn't a problem for forces.



Sword and twin first half will cause knockback but not scatter as much when used in full, which makes them fly all the way to Kansas.

[Neith]

If Hunters know what they're doing, they'll use knockback/Air juggles on the right enemies, or enemies they know they can kill.

Also, in Hakura Temple, if you kill one of the robots by knocking it into the air, it'll explode harmlessly, instead of hurting anyone near. Just something I noticed.

You shouldn't rely on grouping up mobs, and you shouldn't rely on scattering them either. You should adapt to each spawn as it progresses. If you think the mob is going to hurt you a lot, air it, and beat it up while it's down. If you think you can take them, group them up and beat them.

As long as Hunters don't drag extra un-needed spawns into play, I don't see a problem.

[therealAERO]

On 2006-11-10 10:27, KirinDave wrote:
Hello Hunters, I am the Force in your party. I may be one of many, or the only one, but regardless, I'm here to tell you something.

Please, please, please stop scattering groups of slow mobs!

I understand certain PAs you have do this. I also understand you do great damage and this is very cool. But despite that, if you work with the entire team, we'll all do a lot more damage and work a lot faster.

When you see a group of mobs, put the Saber and Knuckles away. Pull out the Sword or Spear. Start wailing away but try to keep them grouped! Why? Because I'm going to start using my Ra-spells. With both of us doing group damage, we're going to drop them all more quickly.

But if you scatter the groups all apart, neither of us can fight more than a mob or two at once. We can do this, but it inefficient all the way around. We could be doing so much more than splitting up into a bunch of small solo groups.

I know you can't always do this. And against some enemies, it makes no sense to do it, so I am not going to yell or get huffy if you don't. But I do want to tell you, just in case you didn't know.

So please, let me help you by supplementing your awesome damage with mine, and . Help me in tagging. We both win.



Heres a thought...NO

I didn't level up my PAs just to be used while soloing. So go to hell. Yes I am appalled that someone would tell me to not use one of the coolest things in this game. Maybe you should learn to aim better ^_^

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-10 10:27, KirinDave wrote:
Hello Hunters, I am the Force in your party. I may be one of many, or the only one, but regardless, I'm here to tell you something.

Please, please, please stop scattering groups of slow mobs!

I understand certain PAs you have do this. I also understand you do great damage and this is very cool. But despite that, if you work with the entire team, we'll all do a lot more damage and work a lot faster.

When you see a group of mobs, put the Saber and Knuckles away. Pull out the Sword or Spear. Start wailing away but try to keep them grouped! Why? Because I'm going to start using my Ra-spells. With both of us doing group damage, we're going to drop them all more quickly.

But if you scatter the groups all apart, neither of us can fight more than a mob or two at once. We can do this, but it inefficient all the way around. We could be doing so much more than splitting up into a bunch of small solo groups.

I know you can't always do this. And against some enemies, it makes no sense to do it, so I am not going to yell or get huffy if you don't. But I do want to tell you, just in case you didn't know.

So please, let me help you by supplementing your awesome damage with mine, and . Help me in tagging. We both win.



So you want me to NOT use PAs that launch things? That leaves me with the first half of my Sword PA, and the first half of my Dagger PA.

In the majority of cases, I'm going to launch things. Sorry.

Thanks but no thanks.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Zeta on 2006-11-10 19:00 ]</font>

[Genoa]

There is a difference though in using your PA's and just being inconsiderate. Yeah, that force in your party, they'd like to level as well. That doesn't mean you spam a scattering PA the entire time... You scatter a few mobs then you use something that's more efficient for single-target combat. Without the targeting system for techs... most forces miss their targets more often than they hit. Not to mention, you scattering Hunters keep chasing down your flying targets and you're SO far away from the force, that you start dying and blame the force for not doing their job... You know, it's really hard to cast Resta when you're out of range from the rest of the party.

Consider the force, don't give em this "omg, deal with it, you picked a Force"... You have to be nice to your fellow party members. Forces mostly bend over backwards to try and sustain the party, and then there's actually people that tell them to deal with their lack of ability to hit things because some selfish hunters want to level their PA and single-handedly destroy everything? Then I tell you the Hunters should be the ones playing with themselves! If they're so good at their scattering strategy, then who needs a Force eh?

Teamwork is definately an understatement in PSU so far, everyone's trying to be a solo hero in a party of many. Take your mind off yourself for once... and think about someone else with you, especially the ones that got your back all the time.

On a side note, it also reminds me of how many people during a boss will continue to inialate the target even when someone is dead. "oh but I dont' have any moons, so I might as well keep attacking" even so, maybe someone else does and they're trying to go to the fallen one... but you kill the boss before they could reach them... Way to go jerk >_>

Consideration... it's a wonderful thing http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif We have a right to complain just as much as you have a right to be selfish.

Am I saying all hunters are selfish? Most definately not, ... many are, but there is some people with decency....

And if you're someone thinking that you're impressing the party when you inialate thigns so quickly that you don't need anyone's help... you're just making yourself look like a humongious jerk infront of everyone. Nobody likes a show-off.

Forces might rely on Hunters and Rangers for their strength to throw-off many targets, but that doesn't mean forces want you to decimate everything and they just heal your selfish behind when you're hurt.... People like me pick Forces because we want to support AND deal some hefty Tech damage... but most Forces are actually there because they see support as a huge factor. That when the game is gunna get tougher later on, that a Force is going to be incredibly desired for the hardest areas of the game. SOMEONE has to back up the party, so please, dont' tell Forces they should deal with the rest of the party's actions. Because that's basically saying "you can't tell US to change, but we can tell YOU to just adjust to our selfish actions.".... Great teamwork...

All i'm really emphisising here is to be more considerate of your fellow party members. A good way to start? Focus on hitting all the enemies before just inialating one http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif That way, YOU can get more experiance by hitting the whole mob, and EVERYONE ELSE can have a chance to hit the mob too =0 zOmg, who'da thought that would be more beneficial to not only others... but to yourself ! Not only are you getting more experiance... but someone else that's actually with you is getting those Yellow Numbers on their screens at home as well ! >_> .....

[Garnet_Moon]

If I want to scatter mobs around a room when they first spawn that is my business. If you want XP from them then you can aim your spells properly after they disperse, or you can go solo. Either way I don't care.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-10 19:03 ]</font>

[Guilty-Mirage]

I only wholly agree with the point of the topic in Grove of Fanatics.

If you're a melee there, let the Forces do their job by manaburning the robots.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-10 19:03, Guilty-Mirage wrote:
I only wholly agree with the point of the topic in Grove of Fanatics.

If you're a melee there, let the Forces do their job by manaburning the robots.


Right. Excuse me while I deck my action pallette out with lightning weapons and continue to scatter things.

[Genoa]

On 2006-11-10 19:02, Garnet_Moon wrote:
If I want to scatter mobs around a room when they first spawn that is my business. If you want XP from them then you can aim your spells properly after they disperse, or you can go solo. Either way I don't care.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-10 19:03 ]</font>

This clearly shows this is a character who cares less about the party, and should be the one's soloing themselves, rather than telling others that they should solo.... I'll be sure to invite you in my party if I ever see you >_> ....


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MegamanX on 2006-11-10 19:07 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-10 19:05, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-10 19:03, Guilty-Mirage wrote:
I only wholly agree with the point of the topic in Grove of Fanatics.

If you're a melee there, let the Forces do their job by manaburning the robots.


Right. Excuse me while I deck my action pallette out with lightning weapons and continue to scatter things.



Yeah, as long as they're in the air they're harmless.

I have a palette specifically for Grove of Fanatics. Lightning Dual Slashers FTW! (Yeah, I have 6 Lightning Dual Slashers, and a slew of spare Lightning Durandals. That place is cake for me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)

[Guilty-Mirage]

On 2006-11-10 19:05, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Right. Excuse me while I deck my action pallette out with lightning weapons and continue to scatter things.

You fail at PSU.

Do that in any competent group and you'll get kicked. Rightfully so.

Then again, since PSO-World is turning into the Allakhazam of PSU (no offense to the intelligent folks here), I'm not surprised to see someone saying something that ignorant.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Guilty-Mirage on 2006-11-10 19:09 ]</font>

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-10 19:07, Zeta wrote:

On 2006-11-10 19:05, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-10 19:03, Guilty-Mirage wrote:
I only wholly agree with the point of the topic in Grove of Fanatics.

If you're a melee there, let the Forces do their job by manaburning the robots.


Right. Excuse me while I deck my action pallette out with lightning weapons and continue to scatter things.



Yeah, as long as they're in the air they're harmless.

I have a palette specifically for Grove of Fanatics. Lightning Dual Slashers FTW! (Yeah, I have 6 Lightning Dual Slashers, and a slew of spare Lightning Durandals. That place is cake for me http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)


The tanks can't blow up if they die while being air juggled. They just fall down and dissapear. This is why I love my PAs that throw them around.

[Guilty-Mirage]

Your juggling < robots dying faster.

Who gives a flying crap if they're blowing up or not? No one with an ounce of skill gets hit by exploding 'bots anyway.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-10 19:10, Guilty-Mirage wrote:
Your juggling < robots dying faster.

Who gives a flying crap if they're blowing up or not? No one with an ounce of skill gets hit by exploding 'bots anyway.


Right. And you know exactly when they die so you know when to stop pressing the combo button and move before it blows up?

What is that, some sort of HUD that shows their HP or something? Skill or not, you're still gonna get hit by that explosion sometimes.

[McLaughlin]

Get stuck between 5 of them and tell you you don't get burned.

Being burned puts more stress on the Force, which is the basis of the complaint here.

[AnamanaAU]

Learn to adapt to parties, not everyone plays the same. Go back to WoW if you want routine.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-10 19:15, JubeiSaotome wrote:
Learn to adapt to parties, not everyone plays the same. Go back to WoW if you want routine.


The only place i've seen Forces whine about XP when a Hunter starts using his or her PAs is here on PSOW. From personal experience at observing and speaking to a number of Forces in-game, they don't have much of a problem tagging mobs. The trick isn't complicated at all, in fact you have a number of tools to play tag with:

Barta
Zonde
Radiga
Rafoie
Rabarta
Razonde

All of which should be Tier 2(11-20) for maximum taggage.

I really don't see why PSOW has a problem tagging mobs... I really and truthfully don't. Most Rangers I party with have everything tagged with their Machineguns so that's not much of a concern to me either.

Now, as for the best-way-to-kill-mobs-is-not-to-scatter-them thing, we'll have to wait and see when we get S Rank missions. Right now it's a fun thing to do instead of spamming the same mission over and over like robots, following guide lines down to the T, and having no deviation or variation at ALL. I love when I use my PAs. It's never the same walk to the mobs that go flying twice.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-10 19:25 ]</font>

[Merumeru]

XD my force beast usually doesnt have issues tagging crap, if my spells keep missing, i just pull out a pistol real quick or use my wand as opposed to my rod

[therealAERO]

thank you

[AlMcFly]

After consulting with my force friends (of whom are some of the best fo's I've seen to date), they are in agreement that it is not that big a deal that we scatter the mobs. They adjust their gaming style to the hunters, not the other way around. That's why most believe that classes like rangers and forces are supportclasses. Have you ever heard hunters regarded as a support class? No? ;P

[EphekZ]

Thing is, like previously mentioned, for the person meleeing it's quite dangerous for them to bunch up. Even with a sword, as it has a 3 target limit you can still get hurt really badly. Then they dmg stack you, the Hu dies and you loose the s-rank.

[Genoa]

So, the worlds full of evil people... the good people ARE going to deal with it... they have no choice, but you make it seem like "meh, there's evil people, adjust to them..." No attempt to try to better someone up? Maybe... influence them? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make em' drink... Not exactly trying to change anyone, just hoping the words don't fall on deaf ears.

[Kent]

Everyone gets hit by an explosion on accident, from time to time. I can guarantee you that everyone that's been there, has been hit by an exploding machine at least once.

Anyway, about the whole enemy manipulation thing... Enemy manipulation has always been a big part of PSO, and is still a big part of PSU, especially for Hunters. Air/knockdown PAs are really handy in stunning enemies (especially ones that like to move around a lot, like Goushins) - taking an enemy temporarily out of any form of offense, is insurmountably handy in combat... Especially when you can keep hammering away while they recover. I don't think anyone has any problem with these (if they do, they really should play something else...).

For knockback attacks, though, I can see how some people would have problems with them... Especially someone who's, say, "smart" enough to try and hit Diga from 20 feet. Anyway, I play mainly a Force. I only use Wands for my casting, because I want to be able to carry over my equipment into Wartecher (no Ra- techniques, either, waiting for Gi- ones; I've used just basic techniques, Resta, and Reverser, outside of beta, and never recieved a complaint unless it was from another Force not getting to level his Resta/Reverser). I realize that there are Hunters who like to scatter enemies - which can be a very beneficial tactic, should it be used correctly, and it can be fit into most circumstances. However, keeping enemies in a tight group, is just as legitimate and beneficial a tactic.

Really, whichever is most appropriate/effective, depends on the entirety of the group, and how the members operate alone, and together. Not everyone likes to use swords; not everyone likes to use twin sabers. As a Force especially, you need to learn to adapt to how your party members function, not just think one way, is the only way to do things, and anyone who deviates sucks. :/

The really good players, are the versatile ones that can adapt to their allies, just as much as their enemies.

[BloodDragoon]

I'm sorry but this whole original complaint to me sounds just like BLM's and THF's in FFXI that want a party member to use a extremely weak weapon skill for a specific skillchain which lets them do maybe 200-400 extra damage when that party member is giving up 800+ damage on their weaponskill. But they don't care about this because it lets them stretch their e-peen.

Unlike most MMO's PSU's melee class isnt a set out cookie cutter. People's personal preferences and playstyle will come out much more than any other MMO out there. As a Force you should be adapting to these preferences as needed. And if you think hunters should always let 7-8 monsters gang up on them because you want to tag everything in 1 casting I suggest you switch to hunter and let 5-6 Vahra or Golmoro in Parum's A rank missions mob up on you and see what happens if you dont knock them down or back. Honestly the OP sounds lazy to me and is simply complaining about the fact they have to work a little bit harder to tag everything. Just my 2 cents...

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-10 20:29, BloodDragoon wrote:
I suggest you switch to hunter and let 5-6 Vahra or Golmoro in Parum's A rank missions mob up on you

I did that, but all I could find was 4x Commander Vahras(buffed ones). They did 1,000 damage in the first wave of attacks within a second, then did their little backwards shuffle, and came in to finish me off.

1,600 HP at level 50 only goes so far when you're surrounded. :

As for Forces telling me not to scatter said mobs, ok, fine. I'll just kite them over to you so when they swing at me and hit us both, but only YOU get one-shotted then we'll see who was right abotu scattering mobs. Then we shall see who was right.

...i'm going to hell, I know.

[VanHalen]

On 2006-11-10 20:50, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-10 20:29, BloodDragoon wrote:
I suggest you switch to hunter and let 5-6 Vahra or Golmoro in Parum's A rank missions mob up on you

I did that, but all I could find was 4x Commander Vahras(buffed ones). They did 1,000 damage in the first wave of attacks within a second, then did their little backwards shuffle, and came in to finish me off.

1,600 HP at level 50 only goes so far when you're surrounded. :

As for Forces telling me not to scatter said mobs, ok, fine. I'll just kite them over to you so when they swing at me and hit us both, but only YOU get one-shotted then we'll see who was right abotu scattering mobs. Then we shall see who was right.

...i'm going to hell, I know.



lmao no your going to hunter and ranger heaven

[BloodDragoon]

Getting surrounded by 5 of those red mechs in grove of fanatics on A rank can be just as bad due to that electric ball discharge that can leave you dazed and unable to do anything till it gets cured or wears off. Also those little red pricks have a habit of pushing exploding corpses torwards me.

[DeRolLe]

On 2006-11-10 12:04, jarek99 wrote:
I have a good friend that is an excellent force. No one ever dies with him in the party. However, he complains about the force class. Most of his complaints are valid and voiced often...usually too often. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif He also likes the mobs grouped up so he can AE them. This can often result in the hunter getting clobbered by 3-4 mobs. Then he gets upset that we are being careless with our hit points and he has to lose experience (by not killing or tagging every mob) to heal us. Damned if you do, damned if you dont.



I wouldn't call it whining if he had a valid point right? Maybe more like raising awareness. ><

You had your twin daggers going in that pack of 3-4 mobs right? Your dps is up, his dps is up, and monsters dying faster = reduced pp cost for all involved.

If no one ever died in your party, getting ganged up on by a few monsters was ok? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

What do I know though.

[Bahamut89]

The fact is, hunters are the only guys who have to worry about getting hit. It's actually rather difficult to understand that it can be hard to dodge an enemy. Sorry, it took me a while to work my mind around that concept.

Hunters are the glass cannons of PSU! Who'd have thought. They're the ones who do massive damage but will die in a second if something goes wrong.

[Witchblade56]

Mcfly who is having serious issues here? Wherein my posts have you read that in any of what i posted? Where are the complaints? This is yep you guessed it a frikkin game. I do happen to take my role rather seriously though when i am partying with people if only to ensure that they get what they came looking for in my rooms. You're reading comprehension obviously fails you. Let me set this straight or rather you straight on this as i dont have any issues with the other friendly posters here in this thread.

Firstly new ball game? Having proper support? Ok I'm quite fortunate to have my best friend playing as a force and eh shes exceptional in her duties; we rarely if ever end up in the yellow and shes isnt spamming restas.... o wait that also means that wow guess what i do know what im doing in the game and do have a clear idea of how things work in this game. PSO , while im positive youre going to sit there and naysay this, is quite a bit similar in game mechanics to PSU. There are differences yes, thats better left on another thread.

You soloing as level 15-20 in B rank missions is nothing to write home to mom about let alone post it here in the threads, if you can do it im sure the next hunter can. Try doing it as a force... ahhhhahahaha yes i have a force and have solo'd that set of missions. This is of course prior to knowing anything about the rankings for finishing missions i.e. without the deaths etc. Sadly the base race level is 12 with a level one force job; i have to rectify that... being new to the game does have its consequences of which i am well appraised.

"With that out of the way:" ROFL @ you *rolls eyes*

You having anything of cosequence to add to what i already know on the frontline? Well while the knock back info i is guess marginally enlightning the game mechanics remain essentially the same.. as when i started my Lv 1 beast on linear line. I fail to see where you had any consequence to bestow upon me in so far as knowledge of the game mechanics. You merely demonstrated more of your fluff err padding i suppose as you like to put it.

Do us all a favor and stay on topic this is about forces in parties having to heavily compete for their exp in certain random situations. My explicitives were stated solely for the purpose of emphasizing my feeling that people should be working as a team to accomplish a common goal whilst meeting individuals needs in the process. That means taking care of your party members. I hold firm to this idea because of my background in another MMO that i have played equally as long as i have PSO.

If you care to take this into a party and chat there about the nuances of saving face in the forums I would be more than happy to accomodate you. Keep the attacks to yourself; remember you entered into this casting barbed comments about what i had to say or rather the how. People are afterall people and do like to express themselves differently from others... That rubs me all the wrong way and quite honestly you have demonstrated an overall lack of maturity by even beginning this discussion in that manner.

Save the comments for your fan boys, you obviously think you have something to prove from all this... demonstrating certain inadequacies that you have failed to rectify in real life. Ive even dated guys like you; youre easier to read than the cover of a kindergarden Doctor Zeus book.

You took it to the next level. You opened with an insult and i have answered in kind .I proposition you to leave this alone while you have face left. Get back on topic.

Peace and green lights to you Mcfly,

Sincerely,

Damsonrhee





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Witchblade56 on 2006-11-10 22:28 ]</font>

[AlMcFly]

I love it when people take so much offense to a comment aimed at them, that they HAVE to write something to save their dignity, yet they don't know what to write, so they end up writing something that hardly makes sense.

I love it that the last and final result of the unintelligent person is to call someone immature. They can't come up with anymore witty retorts that they resort to "you are immature my friend". Come on, my sister doesn't even call people immature anymore. That went out in grade school. What makes maturity, that I or you don't get angry or act on emotion or that we don't attack someone? Boohoo, cry into your pillow a little more emo kid. Everyone of all ages and maturity level put people down emotionally. It's not maturity, it's called human nature. By your getting offended by my comments, shows how immature you are, lol. I would worry more about intelligence level rather than maturity level because you are quite obviously lacking in the former.

I love it when I am told my reading comprehension fails me when you obviously aren't the pinnacle of "great sentance structure". ;P

I love it when I am told I am bragging when originally I posted those comments to quell what seemed to be bragging on your part.

I love it when I am commenting about B rank missions being a joke. Then someone says that me stating that is nothing to be proud of? What? Didn't I just say B rank missions were nothing to be proud of?

I love it when people try to psychoanalyze other people. Claiming that there may be certain inadequacies this person may be facing, thus he lashes out in other facets like online forums. Come on girl. That's a year one Psych major path of thinking. I have my bachelor's in the field. So don't try to kid the kidder here. I would have gone for my master's if people didn't annoy me so much ;P.

Also, speaking of girl. If I would have known previously you were female. I would have never started this little feud we have. Because all real men know that arguing with women who have egos, is like yelling at a brick wall. They won't hear nor understand anything passed their own voice. Yeah I went there. ;P

P.S. Dated guys like me? You know nothing about me. Judging from what i've heard, you are a common person to online games. I am a common person to alcoholic frats, dating cheerleaders, making bimonthly trips to the coasts to hang with old friends. You haven't dated a guy like me.

[Witchblade56]

Simply put Mcfly there isnt really anything to psycho analyze about you... nothing whatsoever.

I'd like to see some of this correct sentence structure you chat about; it isnt there.

Alcoholics anonymous would be a better place for you than this thread... frat parties eeekk.

All that dribble out of you and you still didnt manage to keep on topic; mister college degree guy. Then again apparently psych was your "Major", theres an old saying "Those that can't, teach." Maybe Kindergarden or preschool teacher is more up your ally, or i know you can go do a spelling bee since it aint there either in that post up above.

Since when was i bragging or flaunting my level? Quote it? Obviously you do have issues and yes guys like you are a dime a dozen .. frat boy.

Your arguements are as weak as that beer you drink at those parties. You obviously met your match since you came back with... if that's what you would like to call an intelligent reply. Your button was pushed; it's easy enough to goad people like you though a cattle prod would be more appropriate. People that feel the need to use their on egoic brash to get a point across to someone who was not bragging is quite simply a trouble maker and not really worth any further effort on my part. I bet you pick fight amongst your friends as well. If your social life were so successful then perhaps you'd be doing something other than writing here and playing the game?

Doesnt matter I'm playing the game whilst you troll the forums. I won't be reading anymore of your replies after this; you're simply a waste of time and I'm sure the mods are getting irritated with the flaming -YOU- started. Your inability to stay on topic shows that you are just trying to save the face that you lost up above; drink more beer or drown your sorrows in the bottom of a bottle, it is of course what you stated you were better able to handle or were more familiar with.






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Witchblade56 on 2006-11-11 00:30 ]</font>

[jarek99]

The end result of this thread will be that no one will change their play style and forces will continue to complain.

I just finished the offline story mode this morning. if you forces get mad about PAs kicking mobs all over the room, just wait until double sabers (darth maul sabers) are unlocked online. The PA for it will make you commit suicide. Hunters will probably love it tho. lol

[BloodDragoon]

You do know arguing over a forum on the internet is about as productive as trying to make armor piercing non leathal foam pellet rounds for firearms? >.>

And they dont have to wait for doublesabers to be unlocked online. Just join a party lead by a cast that has called Lou. She uses one and loves spamming it's PA.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BloodDragoon on 2006-11-11 00:30 ]</font>

[Witchblade56]

Double sabers will be the bane of forces no doubt; and yes BD i am done with that arguing, incessant noise is best shut out by closing the door so i wont be reading anymore of his posts.

All i see now is what other people post.

Anyways consideration i think should still be in line for forces but that is just my opinion. It's a team otherwise i say go solo if you dont want to deal with other people and their concerns. Then you can be all consumed with with using your PA's to smash to bits whatever mobs you see fit to smash..

How is it that Lou can use that saber? Its Figunner only and the advanced jobs [afaik] havent been released yet. Hack maybe?

[BloodDragoon]

NPC's follow the offline class rules. Which means Lou can use a rifle and doublesaber as a hunter. Leo can equip a wand and cast Resta, and Maya can use a Crossbow. Also if you watch them they also have access to the advanced PA's they use in story mode.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BloodDragoon on 2006-11-11 01:00 ]</font>

[Witchblade56]

oops i thought you were referring to a player http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ya also PMs that have been unlocked use A rank weaps as well as other PA's not available to us atm -_-;;;

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-11 01:13, Witchblade56 wrote:
oops i thought you were referring to a player http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif ya also PMs that have been unlocked use A rank weaps as well as other PA's not available to us atm -_-;;;


It's a good thing that Twin Saber PA that GH410 uses isn't unlocked yet because that one is over powered. God only knows how much deadlier it would be if it was elemental.

[Witchblade56]

sounds like it might be one of those "Broken" abilities/items in game, sounds kinda like ridill in FFXI now...

[AlMcFly]

Haha, all I can say is ugly women are the most uptight, lol. I waste time here because I don't sleep at the same time as my gf does and I'm bored, lol. Also, speaking of who's buttons have been pushed, you've gone to an awful length to convince me of something. Obviously not working btw, lol.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: McFlyVII on 2006-11-11 01:29 ]</font>

[daylight129]

To the OP :

Are you serious? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif Stop trying to make this game 10x more complicated than it truly isn't.

[Neith]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Let Hunters do their jobs, instead of telling us how to play. Remember all those threads telling Forces to be resta-slaves to Hunters in PSO? Remember how a lot of people didn't WANT to be resta-slaves? Same principle. As long as Hunters aren't endangering the party, and are being considerate in terms of EXP (which is easy as HU, HU damage fails in comparison to FO in most areas), I really don't see a problem.

As said previously, PSU is a simple game, not some MMORPG where it requires complex strategy. Basic ideas are enough to be a good player- heal people on low HP, air juggle big mobs, save SUV/Nanoblast for large mobs/bosses..

If people stop trying to overcomplicate the game, you'll find it's VERY easy to function well as a party. By overcomplicating it, you're just aggitating people.

[Mystil]

On 2006-11-10 19:08, Guilty-Mirage wrote:

Then again, since PSO-World is turning into the Allakhazam of PSU (no offense to the intelligent folks here), I'm not surprised to see someone saying something that ignorant.

..This community will never be as horrible as alla's community.. Those people have no feelings.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

From a hunter: Dear forces

OMG PLZ HEALZ HAEL PLZ IAM DIEING

[Garnet_Moon]

From a Hunter: Dear Forces,

Put that handgun and bow away and put that Staff or Rod on. You aren't a Ranger and your damage is shit with those weapons, so I don't know who you're trying to kid.

"Nono, see? I do good damage per hit with my bow!"
"Uh-huh. Who're you trying to convince? Us or yourself?"
"Hmm..."
"Yeah. Get to the back of the line and heal already FFS."
"...yes sir. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif"

>.>

Sincerely yours,
Ura-san

[Aberu]

I use twin daggers on big mobs, I don't understand why anyone would use anything that splits them up... Twin dagger pa keeps them in the same place all the time.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-11 13:35, Aberu wrote:
I use twin daggers on big mobs, I don't understand why anyone would use anything that splits them up... Twin dagger pa keeps them in the same place all the time.


You'll think differently when you get hit by several Leader/Buff'd mobs at the same time. Tell me not to scatter S-Rank Leaders/Buff'd mobs and i'm gonna laugh at you.

My armor may not be the best, but it's enough to keep my HP near capped with that Auto-Regen unit. Unless i'm being very reckless and staying in front of mobs. I usually just get hit once or twice per spawn round. I'm pretty quick to get to the enemies back and start hacking away.

http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/2/231/ageha_senba/

Not the best Armor, but it keeps me happy.

I've had it since level 20 and I don't see any profit in upgrading to Gigaline for additional Evasion and a few DFP more. Not worth it to me. My current Ranger has the same armor so it's good to 50 as well.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-11 13:42 ]</font>

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-11 13:33, Garnet_Moon wrote:
From a Hunter: Dear Forces,

Put that handgun and bow away and put that Staff or Rod on. You aren't a Ranger and your damage is shit with those weapons, so I don't know who you're trying to kid.

"Nono, see? I do good damage per hit with my bow!"
"Uh-huh. Who're you trying to convince? Us or yourself?"
"Hmm..."
"Yeah. Get to the back of the line and heal already FFS."
"...yes sir. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif"

>.>

Sincerely yours,
Ura-san



When I use the proper element, I do about 120-130 damage per shot with my bow. Ice arrows on Parum are the fastest way for forces to drop fliers and to assist damage during the Flying portion of the dragon boss. They are also extremely good against Onma's wings.

Frequently I am the only person doing anything more than nick'n'cut damage at all when the dragon flies. Very few rangers I come across even seem to have Ice linked to a rifle. I cannot imagine why.

Any force that does not have a bow is doomed to be totally useless in some parts of the fight. Carry a bow, level your ice arrow tech, and use it when appropriate.

If Rangers get jealous because your bow hits for nearly as much as their rifle, that's their problem. Just make sure to only use it where a ranged weapon makes sense to be used!

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-11 13:48, KirinDave wrote:

On 2006-11-11 13:33, Garnet_Moon wrote:
From a Hunter: Dear Forces,

Put that handgun and bow away and put that Staff or Rod on. You aren't a Ranger and your damage is shit with those weapons, so I don't know who you're trying to kid.

"Nono, see? I do good damage per hit with my bow!"
"Uh-huh. Who're you trying to convince? Us or yourself?"
"Hmm..."
"Yeah. Get to the back of the line and heal already FFS."
"...yes sir. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif"

>.>

Sincerely yours,
Ura-san



When I use the proper element, I do about 120-130 damage per shot with my bow. Ice arrows on Parum are the fastest way for forces to drop fliers and to assist damage during the Flying portion of the dragon boss.
That's cheating. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-11 13:49, Garnet_Moon wrote:

That's cheating. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Bows are so freaking good, I almost think they need a nerf. Why the force class, which already has excellent mid-range potential, gets something that's basically a rifle on crack is totally beyond me. Newmans also have great accuracy, so it's not even like their stats are not suited to it.

But yeah, lots of forces forget to pop out of FPS mode and heal, which is bad on De Ragan. Our job there is to hit second, heal first. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Garnet_Moon]

If the Dragon gets a chance to fly the party sucks. With one exception.

1 second into the fight: RAWR! *nanoblast*
2 seconds into the fight: loln00b *dragon flies off*
3 seconds into the fight: NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!! *whiffing at air below dragons tail*

>_>

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-11 13:58, Garnet_Moon wrote:
If the Dragon gets a chance to fly the party sucks. With one exception.

1 second into the fight: RAWR! *nanoblast*
2 seconds into the fight: loln00b *dragon flies off*
3 seconds into the fight: NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!! *whiffing at air below dragons tail*

>_>



If by "sucks" you mean "doesn't have at least 2 beast hunters who have nanoblast charged up" then possibly, yeah. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Mystil]

OK WHATEVER.

Anyway, I'm not letting a damn monster clutter up and I'll tell you why and if no one likes it, well sorry. No one's going to die on me.

It seems as though monsters AI are programmed to target healers and rangers as a priority. That is to say, Forces and Rangers pose the greatest threat. I have had a whole FUCKING pill of Vahra's IGNORE me and 2 other melees and gang all up on the force. And this morning those Distova things wanted to make love with our ranger. No matter what we did, we could not get thier attention. Only way to prevent this singling out is to scatter.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-11 14:05, KirinDave wrote:

On 2006-11-11 13:58, Garnet_Moon wrote:
If the Dragon gets a chance to fly the party sucks. With one exception.

1 second into the fight: RAWR! *nanoblast*
2 seconds into the fight: loln00b *dragon flies off*
3 seconds into the fight: NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!! *whiffing at air below dragons tail*

>_>



If by "sucks" you mean "doesn't have at least 2 beast hunters who have nanoblast charged up" then possibly, yeah. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


Well, two or more HUbeasts definately don't hurt. >:3

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-11 14:16, Silhouette wrote:
OK WHATEVER.

Anyway, I'm not letting a damn monster clutter up and I'll tell you why and if no one likes it, well sorry. No one's going to die on me.

It seems as though monsters AI are programmed to target healers and rangers as a priority. That is to say, Forces and Rangers pose the greatest threat. I have had a whole FUCKING pill of Vahra's IGNORE me and 2 other melees and gang all up on the force. And this morning those Distova things wanted to make love with our ranger. No matter what we did, we could not get thier attention. Only way to prevent this singling out is to scatter.





Because it's clear that I said, "Never scatter." That must be what I said, and you don't even need to read past the first paragraph. After all, no one who posts on tehs intarnets is reasonable, right?

[BloodDragoon]

Having 4 Grom Busters hit it right off the start doesnt hurt either... >.>

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-11 14:35, BloodDragoon wrote:
Having 4 Grom Busters hit it right off the start doesnt hurt either... >.>


CASTs are supposed to be known for their accuracy, yet every one of them I party with couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with Grom Buster. None use Hegel even though the barrel swivels and usually hits something. I don't know why they refuse to use Hegel even if they missed Grom 5x in a row on a boss fight. Some even miss it with regular mobs. lol

"Oh he moved out of my line of fire!"
"Yeah. You still missed though."
"It's not fair!"
"Cry more. Now watch the DD King. *nanoblast* RAWR!"

>.>

I bought Hegel and Grom Buster so my CAST is ready for 20... of the CASTs i've seen, they only use Grom and miss everything. I'm gonna try Hegel and see if I can get lucky with Grom to compare the two. I'll then see if I should look for some glasses so I can aim Grom properly. lol

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-11 14:39 ]</font>

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-10 23:26, McFlyVII wrote:
Also, speaking of girl. If I would have known previously you were female. I would have never started this little feud we have. Because all real men know that arguing with women who have egos, is like yelling at a brick wall. They won't hear nor understand anything passed their own voice. Yeah I went there. ;P

P.S. Dated guys like me? You know nothing about me. Judging from what i've heard, you are a common person to online games. I am a common person to alcoholic frats, dating cheerleaders, making bimonthly trips to the coasts to hang with old friends. You haven't dated a guy like me.



For the record, Mr. I have a BA, the word you were looking for there was past, not passed. Are you sure you passed you Final? I was unaware they handed out degrees to people who still cannot grasp basic vocabulary.

Yeah, you went there, and it was a pathetic thing to do. You said earlier in your post that immaturity is gauged by how one persons puts another down, then you tell the offending party THEY'RE the ones being immature. Then later you only kick youself even harder by calling a FEMALE egotistical.

She may not know anything about you, but since when did having a BA grant you unlimited knowledge? You know next to nothing about her. Who are you to say szhe's never dated someone like you? Because you're just soooo awesome it'd be impossible for one of the other countless men on the planet to ever match your greatness? Afterall, you head out to the coast all the time to kill more brain cells with equally cool people.

If you feel the need to boast about dropping out of college after a year, gloat to one of your hammered buddies, or perhaps your pillow. But don't do it here, where we "immature" people discuss things relevant to the game the board is dedicated to.

[BloodDragoon]

I have both and swap depending on the situation. Grom does more damage with a smaller firing arc (est about 45-60 degrees) VS hegal that does less damage per target but fires a full 180 degrees in front of you. Also noted Grom can cause shock status effects while Hegal causes atk down. Hegal shines in wide rooms with alot of monsters in them. Hitting with them is mostly a matter of knowing when to fire. The only 2 bosses that pose any difficulty hitting are Svaltus and that Kagikabari thing at the end of rainbow beast simply because they're prone to wandering a bit randomly unless you're soloing. For De Regan the best time to fire an SUV is the moment you see him getting ready to breath fire on the ground. Hell go ahead and stand right in front of him as you do it. Not like you take damage while the unit is out. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif SEED_Vance... um yeah any cast that misses this "boss" needs to have it's SUV privilages revoked. The mech boss in temple easy to hit as well. Either fire when someone gets it stuck in that spinning loop or fire when you see him charging his big laser. Omawhatever it's called. Fire the moment it's wings get fried.

[McLaughlin]

Casts can miss their SUV, but Beasts can die during a NAnoblast.

Which is the bigger waste?

[daylight129]

What's wrong with scattering? Scattering helps us hunters not get owned in the face by getting multi shot by like 5 enemies. Honestly play your class, we'll play ours (In a way we won't die).

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-11 15:06, Zeta wrote:
Beasts can die during a NAnoblast.


I've never even dropped below 50% during a Nanoblast, and rarely below 75%, so that isn't much of a point.

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-11 15:19, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-11 15:06, Zeta wrote:
Beasts can die during a NAnoblast.


I've never even dropped below 50% during a Nanoblast, and rarely below 75%, so that isn't much of a point.



The people on the 360 seem to think just because you're the size of a small house you don't take damage from the Fire Breathe.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-11 15:46, Zeta wrote:

On 2006-11-11 15:19, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-11 15:06, Zeta wrote:
Beasts can die during a NAnoblast.


I've never even dropped below 50% during a Nanoblast, and rarely below 75%, so that isn't much of a point.



The people on the 360 seem to think just because you're the size of a small house you don't take damage from the Fire Breathe.


Only idiots stand in that river of fire. It would even kill me with 1600 HP if I didn't move.

[McLaughlin]

Yeah. Idiots.

I stand by my statement, and to further bolster it, I was just in a party when I heard the following.

"I can't wait till that third planet opens up. We get PVP."

I reply (with text, because my mic was bugging out) "There is no PVP."

"But my other party was talking about it. It must be true."

"There is no PVP."

"That's your opinion," (And I'm thinking, "wow, he actually listened") " But I disagree. My other party was just talking about it."

I guesss his other party knows more about the locked content than Sega.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-11 16:04, Zeta wrote:
Yeah. Idiots.

I stand by my statement, and to further bolster it, I was just in a party when I heard the following.

"I can't wait till that third planet opens up. We get PVP."

I reply (with text, because my mic was bugging out) "There is no PVP."

"But my other party was talking about it. It must be true."

"There is no PVP."

"That's your opinion," (And I'm thinking, "wow, he actually listened") " But I disagree. My other party was just talking about it."

I guesss his other party knows more about the locked content than Sega.


That is why I don't like anything on the xbox that has any form of chatting.

[EnderW]

I sense a certain amount of lazyness here. My wife and friends play forces and they never complain about it the enemies being scattered. As a force you should consider what it is like being in the middle of the enemies. Deal with scattered enemies or deal with dead hunters! I understand you probably want to level your ratype spells, but we hunters also need to level our PA's. Let this issue rest and understand that if scattering enemies was not a tactical advantage to hunters (like your massive damage dealing spells) sega would not have included it.

[pso123hrf]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif THANK YOU!

I have been doing Dragon B runs non-stop, and before I can even cast a spell, the mob is already spread out. I have a Hijrod (sp) (hardest B rank rod to make) and it has 1080 PP. By the end, until the photon charger, Im down to 100 PP!!!

But yeah stop raping the mobs.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-11 16:38, EnderW wrote:
I sense a certain amount of lazyness here.

You sense wrong.


My wife and friends play forces and they never complain about it the enemies being scattered. As a force you should consider what it is like being in the middle of the enemies.

I do. Please don't assume everyone else is stupid. Since you seem to have not read, or at least missed, the bulk of my message, let me reiterate:

Hunters do not always need to scatter. The whole party does more damage if they don't have to.


Deal with scattered enemies or deal with dead hunters!

Or I could heal them periodically, and they could support each other. Sadly, teamwork is a tall order online.


I understand you probably want to level your ratype spells, but we hunters also need to level our PA's.

I see. Hunters are too busy leveling up their PAs to work as a team. And I'm selfish for wanting to do the same.

Double standard, got it.


Let this issue rest and understand that if scattering enemies was not a tactical advantage to hunters (like your massive damage dealing spells) sega would not have included it.


Interestingly enough, hunters an opt not to scatter things by using different PAs and not taking all the hits on them. To paraphrase someone you know:

"Let his issue rest and understand that if not scattering enemies was not a tectical advantage to hunters, Sega would not have included it."

[BloodDragoon]

Hunters do not always need to scatter. The whole party does more damage if they don't have to.

Correction: You do more damage if they dont do this. My parties generally do more damage with the enemies scattered because it allows rangers to pick off and freeze enemies that are thrown the furthest away and allows the party to focus damage and systematically kill each monster very quickly instead of wasting time with excessive dodging maneuvers and healing due to each monster living longer since damage is being spread out over multiple targets. Then again the forces I party with usually help in this isolation tactic assisting rangers in freezing enemies then pouring damage on the primary target(s).

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-11 17:43, BloodDragoon wrote:

Hunters do not always need to scatter. The whole party does more damage if they don't have to.

Correction: You do more damage if they dont do this.

Hunters do more damage too if they use multi-hit weapons like swords and spears. These weapons hit hard and if supported they can drop enemies very quickly.

As far as I can tell from my experimentation, Rangers don't care either way right now. Might care more later.


My parties generally do more damage with the enemies scattered because it allows rangers to pick off and freeze enemies that are thrown the furthest away and allows the party to focus damage and systematically kill each monster very quickly instead of wasting time with excessive dodging maneuvers and healing due to each monster living longer since damage is being spread out over multiple targets.

As I said in the OP, it definitely depends on your party setup. If you have 1 force and 5 hunters in a group, then splitting probably makes more sense. If your group is more balanced, I can't help but think that focusing on the same target AND hitting more than one target at a time will be better.


Then again the forces I party with usually help in this isolation tactic assisting rangers in freezing enemies then pouring damage on the primary target(s).

*sigh* Thinly veiled insults that I am not a team player are not getting old at all. The groups I am in work fastest when we pin groups of mobs together and focus fire on them. Same principle you're applying , just with more targets at once.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-11-11 18:12 ]</font>

[BloodDragoon]

I'm not implying that you aren't a team player, I'm implying that I believe your methods that you wish to impliment aren't efficient.

Swords are plagued by a slow attack speed and a 3 target limit. Most enemies spawn in groups bigger than this. Which means the hunter will be hit by the monsters he didn't hit most often resulting in staggering which interrupts the combo and many times due to the speed of the weapon the PA from it can get interrupted often from getting hit costing the hunter PP but not having the move go off. At the same time this is costing you damage output because you have to switch weapons more often to cast resta.

Spears excel at single targets with multiple hit locations. They dont AoE they hit up to 1 additional target in a straight line. The PA actually causes the hunter to move forward on it's own so they'd still be pushing a monster out of its group however since the other monsters in that group are behind the hunter its basically free hits to them. Again you lose damage output to the need to cast resta more often.

To me minimizing the enemy's damage output thus allowing the party to focus more on theirs ends up being more efficient in the long run.

Granted I don't know if you played to a high level in extra mode or what not offline but looking at your sig as a 24 force I'd assume you probably run C ranked missions mostly in which case the mob up and AoE tactic clears rooms extremely fast. However you'll eventually notice in B and A rank missions monsters HP goes up a ridiculous amount, and this grouping tactic then starts becoming a liability because you cant get the things dead fast enough. (Then you have those polivhora things or whatever they're called in ruins that REALLY have too much HP. Damn I kill the boss faster than those solo on B rank.) Should also note it becomes harder to stagger enemies when you hit them on higher difficulty levels. And also on a somewhat unrelated note I've seen alot of people wonder if the STA attribute was used for anything and my assumption is that attribute effects your ability to resist being staggered when hit or blown back by certain attacks. But this is just speculation, I'd need some way to test it in order to come up with anything definite.

[Schubalts]

STA is your resistance to status effects, like bruning or freezing.

[KirinDave]

On 2006-11-11 19:34, BloodDragoon wrote:
I'm not implying that you aren't a team player, I'm implying that I believe your methods that you wish to impliment aren't efficient.

Sometimes keeping them grouped is more efficient. Sometimes it is not. *


To me minimizing the enemy's damage output thus allowing the party to focus more on theirs ends up being more efficient in the long run.

That is another metric, but I'd like to note in the B and A ranks I can play, I don't see this happen. I see hunters scatter groups and then, with no coordination with the rest of the group, pick a target and wail away. Now as a ranger or force, I have a tough decisions. I need to decide who needs help, I need to decide if I think any mobs have locked to me, I need to see who other people are going to help.

Now, if you have a headset or a plan, this can work, but what I usually see is the need to run around frantically resta-ing 3-5 parties instead of 1. No control, no plan, no discipline. No one is keeping the mobs off me–which really isn't a good idea, I only have 530 hp–or the rangers.

When I see parties like this, I am glad I have a wand with resta and reverser on i. The only damage I am going to do is my tag damage, and I know we're going to be there a long time.

[Viper472X]

everybody shut up.

[KirinDave]

Yes. We have more important threads to concern ourselves with! For example, bitching about new content, saying where rappies are for the 90th time, people without credit cards are screwed (but the world already knows that, and more!

Civil discourse marred only by one or two people flaming is so annoying. The signal ratio is way too high here. It's giving us all a nosebleed!

There is more interesting info about tactics and hunter mechanics during actual fights in this thread than in any 5 I can find elsewhere.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-11-12 10:53 ]</font>

[physic]

where does this sword is 3 targets thing come from, i can hit way more, but yes it is slow, and generally has low pp, it doesnt leave you open like the partisan pa, but its only effecient wen you have a whole bunch of mobs gathered, most pa have some multi hit range, and you d prolly be better off using any of a number of weapons. part is great dmf, but its very linear and brings you further into enemies, even though it pierces, its rare thy line up perfect or stay lined up, and has very slow recovery, ie bad if your surrounded or not behind the enemy. every weapon has uses, but nothing is good all the time. also playing high dificulties the monsters get stronger faster and some get new tricks, a lt of these weaps or techniques aren that good in an A rank mission.

[LocGaw]

Well I am a force. I prefer the hunters in my PT to not get hit. If that means scattering the pack and getting a quick kill before the rest can recover, then thats great. If it means letting the Sole hunter cover the entrance to a door way while the Fo's and Ra's shoot and nuke then so be it...

Being flexible is part of being a force.

[Flunky]

It's not a simple yes/no answer to scattering, in my opinion.

Vahras in particular are very important to NOT group together. The leader types in particular can dish out a fair amount of damage in one hit, and I've seen far too many times somebody get too close to a large group of Vahras and get ganked in less than a second (4-5 heavy hits at once). Isolated into groups of 1-2, they're easy to control and can't cause too much damage at once (and are also much easier to dodge).

'Lesser' creatures, such as the Gohmons, various little lizard things, etc. don't really need to be kept separate- they're not quite as attack-happy and don't do nearly as much damage (unless you get unlucky and frozen next to a bunch of Gohmons...)

Those hopping blighters in Relics can't really be grouped together very long in my experience, so I can't say much about 'em.

The robos in the temple are a bit more complicated, due to their explodey nature. In the end though, I'd argue grouping them together and not getting to close into the fray is the best idea. This way you won't accidently run into an exploding robot while running away from a different exploding robot. Just try not to get paralyzed.

The general theme for examples is from the perspective of danger presented more than the party's ability to kill 'em quickly. In the A ranks and certain B ranks, a large group of enemies is able to make short work of a hunter if the hunter's gets a bit o' bad luck.

A hunter's gotta get close if they want to cause notable damage- while plinking away with a pistol can do something, it can't do -that- much. Sure a number of weapons and PAs will target multiple opponents, but almost all have target limits. The saber and twin sabers, for example, will only hit two opponents. The second stage of the single dagger PA has a high number of targets (at least 3 or 4), but you've got to be in the middle of them to hit that many- not exactly safe.

I'm using a megaline armor right now (trying to get the stuff to make the ridonkulously expensive giga or tero lines), and I won't jump in the midst of a group of 3+ Vahras unless I'm feeling lucky. I'm a little hesitant dealing with Gohmons too, especially on A rank. Other enemies it's not too troublesome... but I'm still most fond of an initial scattering to break the enemies down into groups of 2 ideally. There probably won't be that many groups of 2, and the enemies are still grouped a little for 'AoE' damage output.

For the record, I mainly use a single handed dagger/gun combo, which if 11-20 in skill is both effective at hitting large groups (if you stick yourself in the center) and scatters at the end of the second combo-part. I generally jump into any combat against anything bigger than small-fry monsters (Pannons, the green Pannonish things on Parum, little lizards etc.) by doing my 2-stage PA and then stick with only using the first stage (doesn't scatter) if somebody's working with me on a group of baddies. Never had any forces, rangers or the like complain.

I have been a bit peeved when somebody keeps on knocking back a single enemy, I'll admit. When somebody does this it's hard for anybody to get a bead on it.

[McLaughlin]

What I'm really sensing here is that KirinDave wants Hunters to bite the bullet so the Forces can hit everything.

Would I group Polties? Yes. Would I sit in the middle of 4 Vahras? Well, you sit your Force in there and tell me how much fun it is.

Those damn robots need to be as far away as possible from each other. If they're grouped and they all die at the same time the poor Hunter gets blown sky high.

[BloodDragoon]

Also if you dont like mobs getting scattered dont join a game led by a cast that has called Lou. Every time I use her she spams her doublesaber PA and starts flinging monsters everywhere. (I'd rather have her armor tho she takes about half the damage I do maybe even less than that. )

[-Ryuki-]

I don't really have a problem with this, but then again, I'm not a FO so I couldn't vouche.

I'll admit, I scatter when I'm my alt, but that's only because the Knuckles send everyone flying. Quite funny, and a "never-gets-old" kind of ordeal. On my main, the Dragoon, never scatters. Rather, I always seem to group them in, while the OTHERS scatter.

..So maybe I DO know how it feels, because my PA is piercing, and I can't hit more than 2 if the other mobs are flying all over the place x_x