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Spectral
Nov 13, 2006, 03:47 AM
With the content update this week or next I have a question about the NPC prices for 5, 6 and 7 star armors.

Currently player stores are charging about 130K for a Gigaline and 240-250 for a Teroline shield. 5 and 6 stars respectively.

I'd love to buy a new armor as my Megaline has been with me for nearly 28 levels but these prices seem incredibly high to me based on the following; it takes 6 nanocarbons at 2,500 a piece + photons to make a Gigaline or Zeetline. All in all that means that making armors is a money loser considering the costs of the board, failure rates, photons etc.

I have no problem paying this price now if that's near the cost of an NPC shop but I have the feeling since the boards are so rare now that the price is really high in comparison to what they will be.

Would anyone with the Japanese game be able to list prices for NPC shops for these items so we know what kind of money we may be able to save if we just wait a few days or a week?

Garnet_Moon
Nov 13, 2006, 03:50 AM
Get Ageha-Senba and be done with it. Use it to 50 and then worry about new armor. That's what I did, and it only has 4 less DFP than Gigaline. I don't care for evasion so that 30 EVP extra on Giga doesn't do anything for me.

BloodDragoon
Nov 13, 2006, 03:50 AM
http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=125538&forum=22&9

Spectral
Nov 13, 2006, 03:56 AM
Thank you BloodDragon, that answers that question. Making armors is the BIGGEST ripoff in the game and the biggest fleecing of gamers running around with more money than they know what to do with.

I can't imagine why ANYONE would make armor. It makes no sense.

For those of you interested I'm going to cut and paste the prices for you....

Armor:
1 star - 1000
2 star - 2400
3 star - 6000
4 star - 18000
5 star - 45000
6 star - 95000
7 star - 210000



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Spectral on 2006-11-13 00:58 ]</font>

BloodDragoon
Nov 13, 2006, 04:01 AM
Funny enough even with something like a 55% chance of success I'm 15/15 on Busterline lol.

5+ star armors are overpriced atm due to the difficulty in making them and the fact theres no NPC's currently selling them.

Spectral
Nov 13, 2006, 04:13 AM
I understand that is what is driving the price. Especially on something like the Teroline.

However if I've made it this far on a 4 star armor and the current player prices are 2-3 times the prices of NPC shops I can certainly wait until the update to buy my next armor. I just didn't want to make a completely idiotic decision.

Sammy
Nov 13, 2006, 04:59 AM
Damn, I've spent so much money trying to make a gigaline and it was actually so cheap http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

HAYABUSA-FMW-
Nov 13, 2006, 05:38 AM
On 2006-11-13 00:56, Spectral wrote:
I can't imagine why ANYONE would make armor. It makes no sense.

To be able to sell it at those inflated prices now since there's no NPC shop out with them as whole finished armor to people who hadn't looked into post update pricing?

And also add Fire resistance or something to those that allow it, heh.

Ether
Nov 13, 2006, 05:51 AM
Those prices make my 83 armor PM cry http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Honestly they wouldnt be so bad if Nanocarbon dropped everywhere, but putting it only in 1 box, in 1 mission, in 1 map, is a bit stupid, when armor boards themselves drop constantly everywhere

Sammy
Nov 13, 2006, 05:53 AM
Fuck! And you don't even get one every mission!

Realmz
Nov 13, 2006, 06:17 AM
On 2006-11-13 02:51, Ether wrote:
Those prices make my 83 armor PM cry http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Honestly they wouldnt be so bad if Nanocarbon dropped everywhere, but putting it only in 1 box, in 1 mission, in 1 map, is a bit stupid, when armor boards themselves drop constantly everywhere



you and me both, i can only imagine that some new mission will have a higher nanocarbon drop

_Deliverance_
Nov 13, 2006, 08:09 AM
This is not what I wanted to hear... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif
Hopefully, they will introduce a higher drop rate for nanocarbon, or even make boards for it. That way, there will be production on it.

Lyrise
Nov 13, 2006, 11:01 AM
On 2006-11-13 00:56, Spectral wrote:
Thank you BloodDragon, that answers that question. Making armors is the BIGGEST ripoff in the game and the biggest fleecing of gamers running around with more money than they know what to do with.

I can't imagine why ANYONE would make armor. It makes no sense.

For those of you interested I'm going to cut and paste the prices for you....

Armor:
1 star - 1000
2 star - 2400
3 star - 6000
4 star - 18000
5 star - 45000
6 star - 95000
7 star - 210000



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Spectral on 2006-11-13 00:58 ]</font>


This only holds true with the proper updates. There are only 2 reasons you build an armor, and they're pretty big ones:

1. You don't like the Element/ratio on the NPC sold armors.

2. You get access to armors that aren't even in stores yet.

SailorDaravon
Nov 13, 2006, 12:12 PM
I asked this in another thread but never got an answer: when we get the first big update (whenever it hits this month), how much new equipment is added? Just one star higher on everything or what? i.e. we can buy 5 star armors and 6 star boards?

Itsuki
Nov 13, 2006, 12:12 PM
You all have to understand that on the jp servers, elemental armor still goes for crazy expensive. Especially things like dark. Its all a matter of what is useful. Sure you can go and buy an npc armor, but in many situations, it'll pale in defensive capabilities.

Lastat27
Nov 13, 2006, 12:25 PM
I like the chart but I believe it to be 100% inaccurate after 4 star armor. It was my understanding that if you want to figure out the price of what an item will cost from an NPC, you just take it's current price you can sell it back for and multiply that by 10.

ie. Megaline sells back to NPC's for 1,800 x 10 = 18,000 shop price.
Photon Charge sells back for 50 x 10 = 500 store price.

The same holds true for every item I've ever checked. In this regard my Gigaline sells back for 9,000 and my Teroline sells back for 19,000 so 90,000 and 190,000 if you bought them from an NPC. 200,000 for a Teroline is a good deal from player shops at the moment.

Are prices of items going to be changed in the future? Because the chart above seems seriously flawed. Did you know it costs 87k to try one synth of Teroline armor at a 51% max success rate? This isn't including the price for the board. If NPC's are going to be selling this 6 star armor for 95,000 then making an armor PM and risking 87k a synth was a complete waste of time.

The chart should look more like this:

Armor:
1 star - 1000
2 star - 2400
3 star - 6000
4 star - 18000
5 star - 90000
6 star - 190000
7 star - [N/A]

If your looking for six star armor check out Yashirou's shop. He's the only person I know that risks making six star armor everyday.

ShadowHado
Nov 13, 2006, 12:50 PM
I don't think as of right now there is a guaranteed set answer for how much equipment we will get. I do know that we're getting Expert Classes, S-Rank Missions, a boost to the level cap (hopefully we will go straight to 70 instead of 60 first...) and photon arts cap will go to 30.

For equipment, the only things I know of is the are adding all new weapons like Axes, Cards, and Grenade Launchers. And then from Story Mode the will bring to us Double Blades, Claws/Twin Claws, Crossbows and Cannons.

Supposedly we will also get the spells we are missing, such as Megid, Grants, etc. and all the Gi-Spells (which btw, did anyone else find it odd that Ra-technics were released before Gi-technics in this game? It's like Fire 3 becoming 2nd to Fire 2. LOL) Then there should be new clothes, room decorations, armor, weapons, rares, etc. as well as some of those being sold in stores after the update.

Hope that helped ^ ^


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ShadowHado on 2006-11-13 09:55 ]</font>

Lastat27
Nov 13, 2006, 01:12 PM
these prices seem incredibly high to me based on the following; it takes 6 nanocarbons at 2,500 a piece + photons to make a Gigaline or Zeetline.

It takes 15 Nanocarbon + Marseline to synth a Gigaline with a 56% max success rate. (About 50k a synth w/o board price). 100,000 meseta for a Gigaline is hardly overpriced. And I believe NPC's will be selling them for 90k.

It takes 30 Nanocarbon + Upteline to synth a Teroline with a 51% max success rate. (About 87k a synth w/o board price.) Once again 200k is hardly overpriced. I believe NPC's will be selling them for 190k.

On average we armor crafters break 1 out of every 2 5-6 star armor we try and synth (for me I've broken way more then that.) 100k for a Gigaline and 200k for a Teroline is only 10k more then what I think NPC's are going to charge. (Read my above post for related evidence.)


I don't think as of right now there is a guaranteed set answer for how much equipment we will get.

This topic is about how much this equipment is going to cost, not about what kind of equipment were getting. Sorry for the semi-rant in this topic, but many people seem uniformed about this subject, and most of the posts I've read so far have been filled with untrue information.

Soulvayne
Nov 13, 2006, 02:05 PM
I don't think as of right now there is a guaranteed set answer for how much equipment we will get.

This topic is about how much this equipment is going to cost, not about what kind of equipment were getting. Sorry for the semi-rant in this topic, but many people seem uniformed about this subject, and most of the posts I've read so far have been filled with untrue information.



I believe that first quote was a response to someones question on the bottom of the first page in which they asked what format the new equipment will be at ala 5 star armors in shop 6 star boards in synthesis shops.

Also I really don't see why people are bashing prices that were listed on the JP game for standard versions of the armor. If the 5 stars end up costing 45k so be it, all you armor makers make yer meseta now while you can take advantage of the situation http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Natrokos
Nov 13, 2006, 02:14 PM
Caveat Emptor people....(Someone said that already I believe.) If you are dumb enough to buy for those prices it's your own fault.

Raifen
Nov 13, 2006, 02:32 PM
it actually takes 15 nanocarbon to make gigaline. or was it 12. not 6

hucast21
Nov 13, 2006, 05:57 PM
On 2006-11-13 10:12, Lastat27 wrote:

It takes 15 Nanocarbon + Marseline to synth a Gigaline with a 56% max success rate. (About 50k a synth w/o board price). 100,000 meseta for a Gigaline is hardly overpriced. And I believe NPC's will be selling them for 90k.

It takes 30 Nanocarbon + Upteline to synth a Teroline with a 51% max success rate. (About 87k a synth w/o board price.) Once again 200k is hardly overpriced. I believe NPC's will be selling them for 190k.

On average we armor crafters break 1 out of every 2 5-6 star armor we try and synth (for me I've broken way more then that.) 100k for a Gigaline and 200k for a Teroline is only 10k more then what I think NPC's are going to charge. (Read my above post for related evidence.)



Untrue information? If NPC shops in JP version are selling 6 star armor for 95K, then charging 200K for a Teroline is a rip-off.

Make your money while you can on the uniformed. The update can't come any sooner.

You're thinking wrong concerning the NPC prices on armor. I hope you'll still be here when you see for yourself when the updates are finally released.

Itsuki
Nov 13, 2006, 09:11 PM
On 2006-11-13 09:25, Lastat27 wrote:
I like the chart but I believe it to be 100% inaccurate after 4 star armor. It was my understanding that if you want to figure out the price of what an item will cost from an NPC, you just take it's current price you can sell it back for and multiply that by 10.


Believe me, I made those charts, the prices are accurate. For armor, you multiply by 5.

5s sell to npc for 9000, buy for 45000.
6s sell to npc for 19000, buy for 95000.
7s sell to npc for 42000, buy for 210000.
8s sell to npc for 72000, buy for 360000.
9s are new, don't think anyone has attempt to make them yet.

Your arguement doesn't hold true for weapons either. Which sell back to the npc for 3/20ths. Yes, thats not a typo. 5s weapons sell to npc for 2775, buy for 18500.

Lastat27
Nov 14, 2006, 01:18 AM
If five star armor can be bought for 45k, and six star armor for 95k, then why even give us the option to synth them ourselves? Seriously, why would we pay 50k for materials, only to get a Gigaline worth 45k, and then risk it all on a 56% chance. There is no way those prices are correct. If they are correct, then there is no point of creating an Armor PM besides for making 9 star armor that can't be bought in stores.

Also, I don't see how 100k is overpriced for a Gigaline when it ends up costing us 100k to make the thing after breaking it 50% of the time. And the same is true for Teroline at 200k. Shouldn't armor crafters at least break even? It's hard to do so with a 51% success rate. Even Yashinou (who makes six star armor everyday) barely breaks even after selling his armor for 200-250k. When you break 2/3 tries you end up losing 100k. And when you succeed at 2/3 you gain 100k.

If Gigaline's are to be sold for 45k from NPC's, then armor crafters won't even break even anymore, we'll actually lose money on every synth whether were successful or not. I still doubt the prices you listed... will Sega Team really mess up the crafting system to where it's cheaper to buy the armor from an NPC, then it is to synth it on your first try yourself?

BloodDragoon
Nov 14, 2006, 01:23 AM
Should note if you want armor with specific elemental resistances you gotta craft it till they start NPC selling the few that do but even on those you cant pick the element they just come that way.

Flunky
Nov 14, 2006, 01:29 AM
I'm betting those prices are taken directly from the JP version, and the prices shouldn't change on the crossover.

The reason for crafting your own armor is the elemental properties- even set element armor like the gigaline and teroline have a variable % when completed.

The material price issue is rather notable, I'll admit. If you vendor buy all the materials but the photons, a gigaline will cost 49,700 per attempt (I believe it's 15000 for the board so that's 5000 per attempt, plus 7200 for the marseline and 37500 for the carbons). Marseline can be gathered without -too- much difficulty, but currently carbons aren't so common.

I'm not going to touch on player shops right now since most sellers of each still price ABOVE vendor price. Ugh. (This is referring to ore and carbon prices, not armor prices).


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Flunky on 2006-11-13 23:05 ]</font>

Wallin
Nov 14, 2006, 01:42 AM
What's the minimum on elemental resistance on armor? I've seen weapons that go pretty low - would you really want to spend 50k on a Gigaline synthesis in hopes that you not only don't blow it but also get a "decent" resistance?

And personally I don't even think elemental resistance is a big deal, at least not right now. I'm level 40 with the Gigaline, but what does significant fire damage besides the dragon, and maybe those Temple things that explode? Players currently survive without the Gigaline fire resistance against the dragon, so how big of a deal is it? The only reason I really wanted it was the higher DEF/EVA rating and the three slots I wanted on my Cast. If they're going to add these in the stores in the next patch I'll just sell mine right now.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wallin on 2006-11-13 22:43 ]</font>

Lastat27
Nov 14, 2006, 01:45 AM
Untrue information? If NPC shops in JP version are selling 6 star armor for 95K, then charging 200K for a Teroline is a rip-off.

Make your money while you can on the uniformed. The update can't come any sooner.

I don't know why I can't let this topic go, but it seems like people think were actually making meseta by selling Teroline at 200k. You quoted my post word for word, but it's like you didn't even read it.

Simple math shows why we sell it for 200k:

[B] Teroline Price: (50-70k) lets just say 60k
Material cost for Teroline: 87k
100 Armor PM success rate: 51%

To synth a single Teroline requires a 147k initial investment. To synth three Teroline would cost 321k.

You succeed at 3/3 synths and you make 279k profit.
You succeed at 2/3 synths and you make 79k profit.

You fail at 2/3 synths and you lose 121k.
You fail at 3/3 synths and you lose 321k.

51% success rate people. Chances are your going to break 2/3, or succeed 2/3 on every board you use. And in the end we barely break even, and that's by selling them for 200k! We would lose so much meseta by selling them for anything less then 200k.

So please stop telling us how much were ripping people off when were only doing the community a favor by providing this armor for barely any profit. If NPC's sell Teroline for 95k then armor crafters will officially be useless to everyone.

AeraLure
Nov 14, 2006, 02:02 AM
On 2006-11-13 14:57, hucast21 wrote:
Untrue information? If NPC shops in JP version are selling 6 star armor for 95K, then charging 200K for a Teroline is a rip-off.

Make your money while you can on the uniformed. The update can't come any sooner.

You're thinking wrong concerning the NPC prices on armor. I hope you'll still be here when you see for yourself when the updates are finally released.


I'll repeat the point Lastat27 made. Player armor crafters invest material costs and risks that add up to a cost much higher than NPC sell prices. What you get by going to a player for higher level armor than the shop provides is armor higher than you can normally buy for the ~month or so the boards are around until it enters into a shop.

At that point sure, you can buy it in a shop for less than it can reasonably be crafted, but also at this point there is a level or two higher board out there that can be turned into an armor above what you can buy for the next month or longer. Its meant to work that way. Crafters on the whole for all things would be pointless if it didnt. You get things sooner than you normally could from a shop and you pay more - to either craft it yourself or have someone else do it. Somewhere down the road too of course there will be things that can only be crafted and not bought, but that is both obvious and beside the pricing point made here.

_Deliverance_
Nov 14, 2006, 03:31 PM
Whatever. It's still bullshit that it costs more to make than it does to buy from vendor. SEGA had better fix this.

Bobkitty
Nov 14, 2006, 03:41 PM
All in all I'm pretty happy about picking up a teroline for 180k.. Initially I thoguht Id blown 100k to get it early, but after reading this topic, id say I maybe wasted 30k ish just to get it early.. which is worth it... Thanks Lastat for the re assurance

Carlo210
Nov 14, 2006, 03:42 PM
On 2006-11-13 09:50, ShadowHado wrote:
(hopefully we will go straight to 70 instead of 60 first...)>

I lol'ed. This won't happen - we are north americans.

Doh42
Nov 14, 2006, 04:13 PM
Hmm, maybe I'm the only one thinking like that, but have you thought about novelty?

I made myself an armor with a 0 Armor PM, an investment (only a gigaline) of about 15k meseta, just because I wanted to get rid of the green line shield on my clothes, which are the ugliest thing ever.

Now I have a dark-based one, which fits my purple cloth and hair, and I'm happy. I would gladly attempt 3-4 times a 6* armor even at 20%, if I had the plans, in order to have better stats AND a fashionable outfit.

After all, what ELSE are you going to spend your money on?
-New weapons? I got all B's.
-Feeding PM? She's 100 already.
-A shop? I got nothing to sell that hundred of other players are already selling.

I guess I could sit on my meseta? And wait for the update and buy the armor cheaper (and be ugly!) and buy my new toys (axe, twin claws, etc.) right on day 1, but where would be the fun in that? If I have 0 meseta once the new stuff comes out, the goal to get all my new stuff and make money is what will make me play...

I would really be sad if the day the update comes live, I can afford everything and just sit there without any reason to go out in the fields and have fun using them. . .

Edit: In the end, I think that armorsmithing is a rich man's money-sink, and it is a damn apparent boast of your fortune (people do notice the different line-shield color)... Probably the only thing that people can notice in lobby, too, since your weapons aren't out.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Doh42 on 2006-11-14 13:16 ]</font>

Witchblade56
Nov 14, 2006, 05:18 PM
Armor smithing on one of my characters and striking weapon smithing on another. I'm halfway through to 100 on my PM and just getting started on my armor PM. Leveling armor on it is just insane atm -_-;

hucast21
Nov 14, 2006, 05:30 PM
On 2006-11-13 22:45, Lastat27 wrote:

Untrue information? If NPC shops in JP version are selling 6 star armor for 95K, then charging 200K for a Teroline is a rip-off.

Make your money while you can on the uniformed. The update can't come any sooner.

I don't know why I can't let this topic go, but it seems like people think were actually making meseta by selling Teroline at 200k. You quoted my post word for word, but it's like you didn't even read it.

Simple math shows why we sell it for 200k:

[B] Teroline Price: (50-70k) lets just say 60k
Material cost for Teroline: 87k
100 Armor PM success rate: 51%

To synth a single Teroline requires a 147k initial investment. To synth three Teroline would cost 321k.

You succeed at 3/3 synths and you make 279k profit.
You succeed at 2/3 synths and you make 79k profit.

You fail at 2/3 synths and you lose 121k.
You fail at 3/3 synths and you lose 321k.

51% success rate people. Chances are your going to break 2/3, or succeed 2/3 on every board you use. And in the end we barely break even, and that's by selling them for 200k! We would lose so much meseta by selling them for anything less then 200k.

So please stop telling us how much were ripping people off when were only doing the community a favor by providing this armor for barely any profit. If NPC's sell Teroline for 95k then armor crafters will officially be useless to everyone.



What don't you armor crafters understand? Are you that thick-headed? These prices are taken from the JP PSU verion, it won't change in the US version.

Armor crafting is nerfed, get over it. The only reason to synth armor is to get elemental bonuses.

PSUPedia is your friend:

http://psupedia.org/index.php?title=Armors

OMGWTFBBQROFL

NPCs are selling Teroline for 95k! >_>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hucast21 on 2006-11-14 14:38 ]</font>

hucast21
Nov 14, 2006, 05:37 PM
On 2006-11-13 23:02, AeraLure wrote:

I'll repeat the point Lastat27 made. Player armor crafters invest material costs and risks that add up to a cost much higher than NPC sell prices. What you get by going to a player for higher level armor than the shop provides is armor higher than you can normally buy for the ~month or so the boards are around until it enters into a shop.

At that point sure, you can buy it in a shop for less than it can reasonably be crafted, but also at this point there is a level or two higher board out there that can be turned into an armor above what you can buy for the next month or longer. Its meant to work that way. Crafters on the whole for all things would be pointless if it didnt. You get things sooner than you normally could from a shop and you pay more - to either craft it yourself or have someone else do it. Somewhere down the road too of course there will be things that can only be crafted and not bought, but that is both obvious and beside the pricing point made here.



Armor crafting is nerfed, nothing more to say. ST wants players to buy armor from NPCs.

I could hold off for a month on new armor. I don't need the latest and greatest in equipment at this very moment.

That is my preference but it's different for others. If somebody wants a 200k Teroline right now, then so be it.

Just don't bitch when you see NPCs selling it for 95k in the next update.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: hucast21 on 2006-11-14 14:41 ]</font>

Bobkitty
Nov 14, 2006, 05:49 PM
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif I agree completely and for anyone going to buy one, just be aware that they will be cheaper.. personally After spending my 'ingame life savings' on 115 nanocarbons and failing the midiline and gigaline over and over, i figured i may aswell go blow 180k on teroline, instead of buying more nanocarbon and failing..again...and again..

What's most important is how you feel about it.. If you feel you got a decent deal, or felt the extra wasnt a big deal then awesome.. Every time i think about the money I could have saved waiting for the update, I think about all those nanocarbons and the frustration that I had to somehow simmer.