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slong
Nov 13, 2006, 09:47 PM
I dislike the english VA. They should have saved the money, kept the Jap VA and put in subtitles instead. We should have the option to switch between english and jap VA and subtitles.

The NA version also removed the character creation voice playback and replaced them with just grunts and moans. And even cast and humans share the same spectrum of voice playback.

It seems the NA is in a hurry to rush the game and only put up minimial translations.

Although I have enjoyed the game, these little things still bug me.

Randomness
Nov 13, 2006, 09:58 PM
NA people arent known for talking through fights...

Garnet_Moon
Nov 13, 2006, 10:03 PM
On 2006-11-13 18:58, Randomness wrote:
NA people arent known for talking through fights...


Clearly you haven't played Metal Wolf Chaos.

I would kill for phrases like those here in PSU.

>.>;

Weak
Nov 13, 2006, 10:04 PM
Ever heard of Shining Force Neo?

Xbob
Nov 13, 2006, 10:12 PM
He said people, not characters. Personally if I ever hear a single cutesy "Thank you very much!" chibi voice from some loli character I'll hastily delete PSU and go back to playing "Smash my fingers."

Garnet_Moon
Nov 13, 2006, 10:14 PM
I've noticed quite a number of items that can't spell very well, have no idea what a "space bar" is, or doesn't believe in using capital letters.

I've no screens because i'm on PS2, but yeah. It's kind of funny how rushed some of this seems. Still fun though.

Parn
Nov 13, 2006, 10:15 PM
HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

.........



I'll keep my grunts and groans, thanks.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2006-11-13 19:16 ]</font>

SonicTMP
Nov 13, 2006, 10:15 PM
ahh the old sub vs dub argument. poor poor horse.

Garnet_Moon
Nov 13, 2006, 10:16 PM
On 2006-11-13 19:15, Parn wrote:
HOT STUFF COMING THROUGH

HOT STUFF COMING THROUGH

HOT STUFF COMING THROUGH

HOT STUFF COMING THROUGH

.........



I'll keep my grunts and groans, thanks.


I spilled my tea laughing so hard. I hate you. I just barely missed my keyboard and surge protector. >.>

Jife_Jifremok
Nov 13, 2006, 10:21 PM
On 2006-11-13 19:03, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-13 18:58, Randomness wrote:
NA people arent known for talking through fights...


Clearly you haven't played Metal Wolf Chaos.

I would kill for phrases like those here in PSU.

>.>;



I am SO making "You're roast chicken!" a macro now.

But yeah, I'm glad we don't talk through fights. Anyone play Tales of Legendia? Senel really sucked with that "Hoo ha eat this" all the time. Chloe was a lifesaver for that reason alone.

Or how about SotN when Dracula would always laugh and say "Here's true power!" every time he used that one attack that was so easily dodged?

Believe me, it would be SO much worse in PSU, especially if the "Hee, yuh, owari!" stuff gets literally translated...

SonicTMP
Nov 13, 2006, 10:24 PM
and yet all the females make the most interesting sounds, espically the forces. Makes you wonder where sega went for the voice talents.....

Garnet_Moon
Nov 13, 2006, 10:31 PM
On 2006-11-13 19:24, SonicTMP wrote:
and yet all the females make the most interesting sounds, espically the forces. Makes you wonder where sega went for the voice talents.....


Personally I love the laugh my Beast F makes when she uses Nanoblast. Same voice on my CAST and I got this retarded sounding "Haha!". My beast gets "HAHAHAHAHAHA!". I was so hoping my CAST would have that same laugh but alas; it changes for each race I think. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Voice 6 I believe. The one with two laughs.

Blu_Swade
Nov 13, 2006, 10:40 PM
yeah, I had some fun with my tiny Cast with the higher numbered voices at lowest pitch, I had this tiny black Cast roaring at Vahras as he slashed them with his saber. XD

Zorafim
Nov 13, 2006, 10:41 PM
/vote subtitles

Garnet_Moon
Nov 13, 2006, 10:41 PM
On 2006-11-13 19:40, Blu_Swade wrote:
yeah, I had some fun with my tiny Cast with the higher numbered voices at lowest pitch, I had this tiny black Cast roaring at Vahras as he slashed them with his saber. XD


God I can't tell you how many Chipmunks i've run into. ~_~

Zakuro
Nov 13, 2006, 10:49 PM
On 2006-11-13 19:15, Parn wrote:
HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

HOT STUFF COMING YOUR WAY

.........



I'll keep my grunts and groans, thanks.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Parn on 2006-11-13 19:16 ]</font>


http://hotstuffcomingyourway.ytmnd.com/

I wouldn't mind if they did have a few phrases, as long as they weren't used too often. Keep the grunts and groans, but have a small chance to say a phrase instead, and have it be more than one so it isn't as likely to get old.

Para
Nov 13, 2006, 10:51 PM
Man I got to ch10 for storymode...
Hal's dub was just atrocious... worst dub out of the whole game. Its like they did a half assed job and just left it at that.

AlMcFly
Nov 13, 2006, 11:04 PM
Something I really liked about the Japanese PSU is the Casts had this cool echo to their voice. Where the hell did that go? That was extremely cool even when grunting.

VanHalen
Nov 13, 2006, 11:05 PM
you could have them say "take this", "this spear goes up you ass!", RISING STRIKE!!, yeah they can just yell out the PAs and CAST can say "Hegal Buster!" just some ideas

@mcfly: i know. i loved the cast echoes they still have them but its not noticable. ahh that echo was kinda sexy lol



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2006-11-13 20:07 ]</font>

Pentence
Nov 14, 2006, 01:25 AM
I would kill for actual phrases a good ol "CHARGE!" never realy gets old imo and the lackluster vocal filters for the NA cast sucks,altho i have the distinct feeling that sega assumed there would be a lo of 360 players in NA and europe so they likely didnt bother

my vote i would love to have the english or jap w/subs options(hey they had it in fricken sonic adv 2 on GC why not here damnit)

Neo187H
Nov 14, 2006, 01:39 AM
I for one am glad they didn't put in voices. Even the grunts and stuff get annoying quickly when you have forced that grunt just about about every time they cast a spell


On 2006-11-13 22:25, Pentence wrote:
I would kill for actual phrases a good ol "CHARGE!" never realy gets old imo and the lackluster vocal filters for the NA cast sucks,altho i have the distinct feeling that sega assumed there would be a lo of 360 players in NA and europe so they likely didnt bother


What difference does the platform make on voice choices?

Edit: messed up the quote.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Neo187H on 2006-11-13 22:41 ]</font>

Tra
Nov 14, 2006, 02:43 AM
think of your over--chatty tutor or your PM that won't shut up


now think of your own character say such quotes everytime you use a PA or tech, except this time it's from a VA and not just a text bubble

-Shimarisu-
Nov 14, 2006, 05:19 AM
I miss the "EVERYBODY GET OUT OF THE WAY! IT'S COMING!" SUV yell, but the forces saying "Eat this!" and "How about this then?" on jp almost EVERY tech just got on my fucking nerves SO much.

Saying that though, the fenale casting voice on US that goes WHOAAAAAAAARAAAAAARGH! is idiotic, and I also hate the male voice 5 one, "HMPH! MMPH!" that is several octaves LOWER than the melee cries for the SAME VOICE that sound like a totally different person. And I use that voice, too. Thank god I raised Fo on my characters purely for merged clases just using resta.

Arieta
Nov 14, 2006, 09:42 AM
Hey Garnet. You said you use voice 6 right? You should try !18 while you're in your room. Hehe I think it's like the best voice sound file.

Though I use voice 6 on my beast and when I nano it doesn't sound like a Hahahah. It sounds more like a kitty roar. Brawwr! But so kawaii (voice pitch is half way so it's not deep or childish).

Pivotal
Nov 14, 2006, 09:48 AM
"CHECK THIS OUT" "ALTHENA LEND ME YOUR POWER" "SUMMON ELEMENTAL POWER"

lunar made me hate battle cries



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pivotal on 2006-11-14 06:49 ]</font>

Blu_Swade
Nov 14, 2006, 09:50 AM
On 2006-11-13 19:51, Para wrote:
Man I got to ch10 for storymode...
Hal's dub was just atrocious... worst dub out of the whole game. Its like they did a half assed job and just left it at that.



that dub is straight up blasphemy, I wonder if it was intentional, it'd've been awesome if they'd casted Mr. T in addition to the bad timing, but that'd never happen XD

Relam
Nov 14, 2006, 10:48 AM
On 2006-11-13 19:03, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-13 18:58, Randomness wrote:
NA people arent known for talking through fights...


Clearly you haven't played Metal Wolf Chaos.

I would kill for phrases like those here in PSU.

>.>;



"Remember Mr. President. There's many a slip between the cup and the lip. That's an iron-clad battle tactic."

Blu_Swade
Nov 14, 2006, 12:47 PM
top quotes I'd've liked to see used as clips:

"Nothingness.. Is... Eternaaaal!" -Xemnas (KHII)

"Fill me with the power of darkness!" -Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (KH) (Black heart unit all the way, yoush)

"Oh, that's great..." -Myself (when I was playing Call Of Duty II with my friend, I was in the corner near the window to avoid his sniper fire when he threw in a frag, I looked down and said it, hilarious kill-cam)

"You have no chance to survive! Make your time!" -(If you don't know, I'm not telling you >_<)

"Try dodging this!" -Seung Mina(SCII)

"I see you!" -Talim (SCII)

"Nef Miyama!" -Break (PSOEIII)

"Shall I give you dispair?" -Sephiroth (Advent Children)

"That one's for my dog!" -Russian soldier (CoDII)

"Chaos Control!" -(c'mon now... do I need to tell you?)

"Death to all who oppose me!" -Shadow (StH)

"Yoush!" -Me

Yes so many quotes to annoy you all, thank me later!

Cause_I_Own_U
Nov 14, 2006, 03:04 PM
It sounds good in japanese but it sounds stupid in american voice acting

Id rather have just a option to pick the japanese or the american voice acting, not have an actual american voice acting

JaiBlue
Nov 14, 2006, 03:18 PM
Seriously since when did today's gamers get so damn upity and spoiled about the sound and quality of someones voice. I'm so sick of seeing these posts about how american va sucks and that they prefer japanese va better.

Well the last time I checked you can import the japanese version, but oh wait you guys don't want that version because you can't read or understand what they are saying, but as long as you can hear their voice none of that matters because many of you are to damn lazy to pick up a websters learn japanese book, but you buy the american version anyway and still have the odsity to complain.

Chea so much logic in that concept. >_>
bakas.

Wheatpenny
Nov 14, 2006, 03:24 PM
I've noticed my male human hunter every once in a while will laugh maniacly when I go overboard on the PA on a mob..I quite like it actualy...

DizzyDi
Nov 14, 2006, 04:08 PM
On 2006-11-14 12:18, JaiBlue wrote:
Seriously since when did today's gamers get so damn upity and spoiled about the sound and quality of someones voice. I'm so sick of seeing these posts about how american va sucks and that they prefer japanese va better.

Well the last time I checked you can import the japanese version, but oh wait you guys don't want that version because you can't read or understand what they are saying, but as long as you can hear their voice none of that matters because many of you are to damn lazy to pick up a websters learn japanese book, but you buy the american version anyway and still have the odsity to complain.

Chea so much logic in that concept. >_>
bakas.




I'm was with you on this...right up until you used the word baka.

DizzyDi
Nov 14, 2006, 04:09 PM
On 2006-11-14 09:47, Blu_Swade wrote:
top quotes I'd've liked to see used as clips:

"Nothingness.. Is... Eternaaaal!" -Xemnas (KHII)

"Fill me with the power of darkness!" -Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (KH) (Black heart unit all the way, yoush)

"Oh, that's great..." -Myself (when I was playing Call Of Duty II with my friend, I was in the corner near the window to avoid his sniper fire when he threw in a frag, I looked down and said it, hilarious kill-cam)

"You have no chance to survive! Make your time!" -(If you don't know, I'm not telling you >_<)

"Try dodging this!" -Seung Mina(SCII)

"I see you!" -Talim (SCII)

"Nef Miyama!" -Break (PSOEIII)

"Shall I give you dispair?" -Sephiroth (Advent Children)

"That one's for my dog!" -Russian soldier (CoDII)

"Chaos Control!" -(c'mon now... do I need to tell you?)

"Death to all who oppose me!" -Shadow (StH)

"Yoush!" -Me

Yes so many quotes to annoy you all, thank me later!



Hell no. I'd mute the game if any of those clips were used.

FenixStryk
Nov 14, 2006, 04:13 PM
On 2006-11-14 09:47, Blu_Swade wrote:
top quotes I'd've liked to see used as clips:
"Nothingness.. Is... Eternaaaal!" -Xemnas (KHII)
"Fill me with the power of darkness!" -Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (KH) (Black heart unit all the way, yoush)
"You have no chance to survive! Make your time!" -(If you don't know, I'm not telling you >_<)
"Try dodging this!" -Seung Mina(SCII)
"I see you!" -Talim (SCII)
"Nef Miyama!" -Break (PSOEIII)
"Shall I give you dispair?" -Sephiroth (Advent children)
"That one's for my dog!" -Russian soldier (CoDII)
"Chaos Control!" -(c'mon now... do I need to tell you?)

"Death to all who oppose me!" -Shadow (StH)None of those seem annoying, and I doubt all of those are repeated throughout their origin. ("Shall I give you despair?" is repeated over and over in Advent Children?)

Oh, and you missed one.
"My will... is immORTal!" -Dwykfarrio (N3)
99 Nights is filled with bad translations. ;p

Zarode
Nov 14, 2006, 04:18 PM
On 2006-11-14 09:47, Blu_Swade wrote:
top quotes I'd've liked to see used as clips:

"Nothingness.. Is... Eternaaaal!" -Xemnas (KHII)

"Fill me with the power of darkness!" -Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (KH) (Black heart unit all the way, yoush)

"Oh, that's great..." -Myself (when I was playing Call Of Duty II with my friend, I was in the corner near the window to avoid his sniper fire when he threw in a frag, I looked down and said it, hilarious kill-cam)

"You have no chance to survive! Make your time!" -(If you don't know, I'm not telling you >_<)

"Try dodging this!" -Seung Mina(SCII)

"I see you!" -Talim (SCII)

"Nef Miyama!" -Break (PSOEIII)

"Shall I give you dispair?" -Sephiroth (Advent Children)

"That one's for my dog!" -Russian soldier (CoDII)

"Chaos Control!" -(c'mon now... do I need to tell you?)

"Death to all who oppose me!" -Shadow (StH)

"Yoush!" -Me

Yes so many quotes to annoy you all, thank me later!



Those are some of the WORST quotes I have ever seen. If you were working for me, I'd fire you on the spot for those, even if you were my best employee... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

HUnewearl_Meira
Nov 14, 2006, 04:31 PM
On 2006-11-13 18:47, slong wrote:
I dislike the english VA. They should have saved the money, kept the Jap VA and put in subtitles instead. We should have the option to switch between english and jap VA and subtitles.

The NA version also removed the character creation voice playback and replaced them with just grunts and moans. And even cast and humans share the same spectrum of voice playback.

It seems the NA is in a hurry to rush the game and only put up minimial translations.

Although I have enjoyed the game, these little things still bug me.



Why are you so eager to listen to a language you don't understand, and have to choose between missing the action or missing the dialog? Is it really better to not be able to catch vocal hints such as accents (indicating a lot about a person's personality and history) because you're not Japanese and therefore you are unable to tell the difference between their regional accents?

What makes you think that subtitles are any more "accurate" than the dubbing? I submit that if you had the facilities to know the difference, then in verity, you would not need the subtitles at all. The sub and dub are written by the same people for cheese's sake. Any error in translation that alters the meaning of what's being said is therefore going to be in both versions.

In so far as the quality of the voice acting, I remind you of the circumstances of the previous two arguments-- You do not have the tools necessary to determine whether or not they did a good job, let alone make a meaningful comparison to the English voice actors. Even if they did do a better job, how would you ever know?

Stop lying to yourself. You don't know Japanese. You don't catch their cultural references. You cannot tell the difference between their regional accents. Subtitles divert your attention and screw up your ability to appreciate the visuals of the animation you're watching. If the creators had intended you to read the dialog, they would have used still cut scenes instead of animated cinematics.

That being said, I challenge anyone to offer *one* practical reason to choose a sub when a dub is available.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2006-11-14 13:35 ]</font>

DONTOSE
Nov 14, 2006, 04:36 PM
Man i wish my guy Dontose was able to scream out TORNADO BREAKER!! every time i would use my swords pa now that would be awesome.
(one can only dream):-<



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DONTOSE on 2006-11-14 13:38 ]</font>

Yoruichi
Nov 14, 2006, 04:40 PM
I dunno...when they totally screw it up? Wasn't it Loddoss War where they took an evil dark elf female with a japanese womans voice to a english valley girl voice?

Relam
Nov 14, 2006, 10:28 PM
Oh man, I love shitty voice acting. It's like MST3000 to me. So when I listen to stuff in PSU, I think it's perfectly fine and suits the goofy way some of the characters joke around and act in the game.

But, yeah, you guys would hate to have me in a game. Back in PSO I used to quote Megaman X4 and Castlevania Symphony of the night all the damn time.

"It's time to get serious!"
"Iiiiiiiiiiiiiit's toolate. Ihaaaaaaaave nochoice."
"Die monster! You don't belong in this world!"

Lately I've been taking to quoting Street Fighter 3's Dudley and random Nintendo phrases.
"Let's fight like Gentleman!"
"Gutter trash!"
"YOU'VE GOT BOOST POWER!"

Heh, guess it's a good thing I've been playing with friends who put up with that kinda sillyness http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif

watashiwa
Nov 14, 2006, 10:47 PM
On 2006-11-14 13:31, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
Why are you so eager to listen to a language you don't understand, and have to choose between missing the action or missing the dialog?


Haha, I wondered this back in the old topic.. makes no sense..


On 2006-11-14 13:31, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:
That being said, I challenge anyone to offer *one* practical reason to choose a sub when a dub is available.


PSU Domestic release, now with Japanese audio to satisfy the Japanophile in you!!!

Flame
Nov 14, 2006, 11:17 PM
for some reason if a corny line is said in another language it tends to be more acceptable. I miss the "Kore de DOUDA??!" from the japanese voice options. There were certain speech mannerism that were lost completely by changing all the voice options into grunts.

Weak
Nov 14, 2006, 11:32 PM
To deny that something can sound better in its original form is ridiculous.

Ruby-chan
Nov 14, 2006, 11:56 PM
I'm a classic anime fan. I love dubs. That being said, why did they have to hire the generic character voice actors from Ron Jeremy's school of voice acting..

I keep expecting to get Resta sprayed all over my face every mission...

Oh, and if there was a cool echo for casts, I wonder why they took that out? That just sounds lazy.

Cause_I_Own_U
Nov 15, 2006, 12:08 AM
I wouldnt want anyone from the simpsons or family guy or futurama to have japanese voice acting, that would just sound lame on a fat ass like peter from family guy, unless i guess you got a fat japanese guy with a burly voice but then that is the same reason to take a american voice actor for that burly voice that fits the character

I do not want southern deep accents on a anime character based in japan it just sounds lame

Blu_Swade
Nov 15, 2006, 12:11 AM
On 2006-11-14 13:18, Zarode wrote:

On 2006-11-14 09:47, Blu_Swade wrote:
top quotes I'd've liked to see used as clips:

"Nothingness.. Is... Eternaaaal!" -Xemnas (KHII)

"Fill me with the power of darkness!" -Ansem, Seeker of Darkness (KH) (Black heart unit all the way, yoush)

"Oh, that's great..." -Myself (when I was playing Call Of Duty II with my friend, I was in the corner near the window to avoid his sniper fire when he threw in a frag, I looked down and said it, hilarious kill-cam)

"You have no chance to survive! Make your time!" -(If you don't know, I'm not telling you >_<)

"Try dodging this!" -Seung Mina(SCII)

"I see you!" -Talim (SCII)

"Nef Miyama!" -Break (PSOEIII)

"Shall I give you dispair?" -Sephiroth (Advent Children)

"That one's for my dog!" -Russian soldier (CoDII)

"Chaos Control!" -(c'mon now... do I need to tell you?)

"Death to all who oppose me!" -Shadow (StH)

"Yoush!" -Me

Yes so many quotes to annoy you all, thank me later!



Those are some of the WORST quotes I have ever seen. If you were working for me, I'd fire you on the spot for those, even if you were my best employee... http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif



*cough* That was the whole point... -_-''' these were the most stupidly rediculous ones I could think of when I was writing the post, and if any of them managed to sneek in, I'd probably die laughing, and DON'T EVEN TRY to say that "That one's for my dog!" isn't pure gold, especially with a Russian accent, although I'll give that it's nothing on "Potato masher! Ru~un!" (the ~ is the best way i could think to show that his voice cracks XD)
Also, "Annihilation! Charge! Fire!" -E-123 Omega (Sonic Heroes)

Wallin
Nov 15, 2006, 12:16 AM
I want quotes like Valkyrie Profile. I miss my PBs BTW... "Go Flipper! Show them you're faster than lightning! Mwhahaaahaaa!!" No more Rudolph either... sighhhh...

FenixStryk
Nov 15, 2006, 02:45 AM
On 2006-11-14 19:28, Relam wrote:
"Time to get serious!"
"Iiiiiiiiiiiiiit's toolate. Ihaaaaaaaave nochoice."
"YOU'VE GOT BOOST POWER!"Ahh, I love those quotes. Megaman + FZero FTW.

As for sub vs. dub, subtitles ARE more accurate than dubbings. Besides the fact that regional voices/accents are kept, lip-synching is negated entirely. In dubbings, they usually have to change the dialogue so it is contiguous with the movement of mouths. This leads to unusual changes in the intended meaning.

For example, if in an anime a character says, "Nani?!", it would have to be changed from its direct meaning, "What?!", to something like "Say what?!" or "What the..?!", so it could match the lips. Neither of those contain the true meaning of the original dialogue, but if in subtitles, it will.

You must also consider that sometimes extra dialogue is added in outright to fill in for unused syllables. This is what caused the original "Ha-HAA!" lines in older dubbings, and the "Believe it!" from Naruto dubs. Truly a shame.

Subtitles preserve the true essence of the item. The voices are intended to sound exactly as they are, and the words are supposed to mean exactly what they say. Dubbings change the emotion and sound of the words, and change the meaning of the lines. To say that dubbings are superior to subtitles is to say that water is better than air.

Blu_Swade
Nov 15, 2006, 08:55 AM
yes dubbs have to be synched and properly localized, also subs tend to leave in honorifics which are often omitted in dubbs (but not always, Naota-kun, XD) I find that the dubbs are oft worded better, like in one of FMA's early eps they say the sun is big mass of burning stuff in the sub, but specify hydrogen in the dubbs (I thought it was helium though... I'm likely mistaken, either that or they fudged it, but I'm no so arrogant to think I know much more than an entire localization team... especially for a show like FMA...)
They not only dubb it to keep pace with the mouth, and to make sense to us, but to try to retain the "feel" of the line, I think it's hilarious when they have both subs and dubs and they don't match AT ALL XD.

HUnewearl_Meira
Nov 15, 2006, 02:38 PM
On 2006-11-14 23:45, FenixStryk wrote:
As for sub vs. dub, subtitles ARE more accurate than dubbings. Besides the fact that regional voices/accents are kept, lip-synching is negated entirely. In dubbings, they usually have to change the dialogue so it is contiguous with the movement of mouths. This leads to unusual changes in the intended meaning.

For example, if in an anime a character says, "Nani?!", it would have to be changed from its direct meaning, "What?!", to something like "Say what?!" or "What the..?!", so it could match the lips. Neither of those contain the true meaning of the original dialogue, but if in subtitles, it will.

You must also consider that sometimes extra dialogue is added in outright to fill in for unused syllables. This is what caused the original "Ha-HAA!" lines in older dubbings, and the "Believe it!" from Naruto dubs. Truly a shame.

Subtitles preserve the true essence of the item. The voices are intended to sound exactly as they are, and the words are supposed to mean exactly what they say. Dubbings change the emotion and sound of the words, and change the meaning of the lines. To say that dubbings are superior to subtitles is to say that water is better than air.



Here's the thing-- the "changes" and "inaccuracies" that you talk about are meaningless. It truely does not matter if "Nani?" gets translated into "What?" "Say what?" or "What was that?" because they are all used interchangeably in conversation. They in fact do mean the same thing; it is simply an utterance requesting that information be repeated, and its specific components are not important, and most significantly, whether someone says, "What?" or "Say what?" is not likely to have any impact whatsoever on the viewer's understanding of the story or the character.

Now, on the other hand, not being able to recognize whether a character is meant to be something of a hick because you lack the ability to recognize an accent that can't be conveyed through subtitles does impact your ability to understand a character and where they're coming from. You will thus miss out on jokes, and if the plot is woven tightly enough, you'll miss out entirely on a number of hints that would otherwise have been obvious to you.

Subtitles, therefore, preserve very little. They are dialog without description, and you miss a great deal of potentially important information that is communicated vocally but not verbally. Any information that gets lost in dubbing gets replaced equivalently, but it also holds onto those vocal queues that subtitles are incapable of conveying. In this sense, dubs have far greater capacity to preserve accuracy than do subtitles.

I don't know how many times, in other arguments, it's been pointed out that the same sentence can convey an importantly different meaning, just depending on what word is emphasized, and without ever even changing the punctuation. This is important information that subtitles can't convey, and you don't know which word the Japanese voice actor emphasized, and even if you could figure out which word in the procession it was, it doesn't matter anyway because the sequence of words he spoke will not match up with the sequence of words that are popping up on your screen. Again, information lost, and this time, the plot doesn't have to be woven very tightly for it to be important.

Remember that two different translations can both be accurate. There are multiple routes to get to just about any destination, especially in language. As an author, I can re-write a chapter a dozen times and produce an identical story worded in a dozen different ways, without losing any information. I can find better ways to word things, produce more information in fewer words, less information with more fluff, or whatever. The point is that just because the dialog varies from sub to dub does not mean that the accuracy has changed, and more pertinantly, it does not mean that anything important has been changed.

Keep in mind that they'll have to make some noteable changes just for the subtitles anyway, because it's all subject to the translator's understanding of what's going on, and maybe he's ignorant of the history of the project, and doesn't know that comment A is a reference to event B that otherwise has nothing to do with what's going, but is an important connection to story C, and so on and so forth. Therefore, anything important that's missed in one translation will be missed in the other, because they're not going to translate it twice.

What you are complaining about being changed in dubbing is honestly some insignificant shit, compared to what doesn't get expressed in pure textual dialog. In a book you at least get tangents to explain what you don't know and descriptive speaking verbs and such, to help you understand what's going on. With subtitles, you don't have that. You have to make assumptions that may or may not be accurate, and it leaves more room for confusion. With dubs, however, you take full advantage of the medium using both video AND audio. Going back to using subtitles is like going back to silent movies. It's not an improvement.

Ruby-chan
Nov 15, 2006, 02:53 PM
On 2006-11-14 23:45, FenixStryk wrote:
Subtitles preserve the true essence of the item. The voices are intended to sound exactly as they are, and the words are supposed to mean exactly what they say. Dubbings change the emotion and sound of the words, and change the meaning of the lines. To say that dubbings are superior to subtitles is to say that water is better than air.



Having gone through this whole rigamarole since I got into this watchin Saturday Anime on Sci-Fi, I think you're missing something. The Japanese have a different way of expressing emotions and intones than we do in the US, therefore often when you're watching a subtitled affair you're missing a lot of that and just reading the subtitles.

Although the reality of it is that this is largely a moot point. The real reason some people love subs over dubs is because people tend to like the first voice they hair coming from a character's mouth. You associate that voice with that character and if it's suddenly different it generally bothers people because it's not the same.

DavidNel
Nov 15, 2006, 03:59 PM
When did we buy PSU for the voice acting?

Gazette
Nov 15, 2006, 04:01 PM
I for one found Ethan's voice hilarious,
I swear he has to be European, or at least carry a fake accent.

Realmz
Nov 15, 2006, 04:08 PM
On 2006-11-14 09:47, Blu_Swade wrote:


"Shall I give you dispair?" -Sephiroth (Advent Children)




quotes wrong

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/realmzjetter/1158788784361.jpg

Zalana
Nov 15, 2006, 04:11 PM
On 2006-11-14 13:31, HUnewearl_Meira wrote:

On 2006-11-13 18:47, slong wrote:
I dislike the english VA. They should have saved the money, kept the Jap VA and put in subtitles instead. We should have the option to switch between english and jap VA and subtitles.

The NA version also removed the character creation voice playback and replaced them with just grunts and moans. And even cast and humans share the same spectrum of voice playback.

It seems the NA is in a hurry to rush the game and only put up minimial translations.

Although I have enjoyed the game, these little things still bug me.



Why are you so eager to listen to a language you don't understand, and have to choose between missing the action or missing the dialog? Is it really better to not be able to catch vocal hints such as accents (indicating a lot about a person's personality and history) because you're not Japanese and therefore you are unable to tell the difference between their regional accents?

What makes you think that subtitles are any more "accurate" than the dubbing? I submit that if you had the facilities to know the difference, then in verity, you would not need the subtitles at all. The sub and dub are written by the same people for cheese's sake. Any error in translation that alters the meaning of what's being said is therefore going to be in both versions.

In so far as the quality of the voice acting, I remind you of the circumstances of the previous two arguments-- You do not have the tools necessary to determine whether or not they did a good job, let alone make a meaningful comparison to the English voice actors. Even if they did do a better job, how would you ever know?

Stop lying to yourself. You don't know Japanese. You don't catch their cultural references. You cannot tell the difference between their regional accents. Subtitles divert your attention and screw up your ability to appreciate the visuals of the animation you're watching. If the creators had intended you to read the dialog, they would have used still cut scenes instead of animated cinematics.

That being said, I challenge anyone to offer *one* practical reason to choose a sub when a dub is available.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: HUnewearl_Meira on 2006-11-14 13:35 ]</font>


Preach on I tell ya preach on. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif