Crowd Control 101 for Hunters

[lavosmanx]

Alright since we seem to be having a problem with hunters avoiding death because of their inability to crowd control. So I thought we should assemble a guide to help these poor and very stupid hunters in need.

1. Use the right weapons...
> This can be the causes of the problem at times. But wait, it is a simple solution... Use weapons like swords and twin daggers. Generally if a weapon has a very excellent crowd control photon art, then you should consider using this weapon. You can use different weapons for different crowd control strategies however. More on that in the next explanation.

2. Use Crowd Control Tactics...
> These tactics or strategies are useful if you want to be original. However don't get too original or fancy or you might die. Remember, there are different tactics for different situations. Remember to use the right weapons for the right tactic if your not into using pure crowd control weaponry. (see discussion #1 in this post).

3. Bring healing items, and lots of them!
> Healing items are your best friend, not the force. You should be healing yourself and relying on them allot less. After all, it doesn't take THAT long to use the healing items from the items palette. You should bring monomates and dimates, star atomizers and moon atomizers, and lastly scapedolls. Remember, star atomizers can heal you. For the moment your focusing on you and noone else. As a hunter, it is NOT your job to heal anyone else except to revive them when needed. The more you focus on healing others, the more you are likely to die. Also you should keep photon chargers with you at all times because you never know when you will run out of PP.

4. Teamwork = Success
> While you are a hunter, do your job to support your allies from the front lines as best as possible. Don't be a glory hog and go ahead of everyone else. Remember, there are times when great numbers achieve incredible results.

[Genobee]

K thanks for adding 1 more to the 50 topics that bitch about hunters, KTHXBYE!

[Garnet_Moon]

1. Twin Daggers are for damage. Twin Sabers are for crowd control. Don't confuse the two.
> I dare you to say "Well, the damage from TDs makes mob attack you, so it's control." because that's a lie. Mobs go after random targets, even if you do 1,000+ to them from the first TD PA. Their hate isn't always fixed on you.

2. Tactics? What tactics? Just run in and use Rising Strike/Crush and then run around beating the individual mobs to death before they get up. >.>

3. I laughed too hard to even try to comment on it. However, I think i'll try to comment.
> Bring healing items for when you are separated from the Force. It is their job to keep Resta adequetely leveled for when they use it. Items are only for when you solo or are separated. 20 Di/Trimates go quickly and don't refill too fast if the normal items aren't "Finders Keepers". They are more of a backup than a main healing source.

4. I am a Hunter. My allies do their best to tag the mobs while I rape them. End of story.

[BloodDragoon]

Funny enough I see more people die trying to maximize their PA damage with twin daggers or a sword because those PA's lack a knockdown or knockback effect. Saber's and Twin Sabers seem better suited to crowd control issues IMO. Or atleast they seem more effective to me when I use them.

[Aaomi]

Doesn't the sword PA only hit 3 guys at a time?

[happy_cricket]

lol kill stuff and get all the items before teh noob forces can lmao!!!11!!



Fixed.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-14 21:40, BloodDragoon wrote:
Funny enough I see more people die trying to maximize their PA damage with twin daggers or a sword because those PA's lack a knockdown or knockback effect. Saber's and Twin Sabers seem better suited to crowd control issues IMO. Or atleast they seem more effective to me when I use them.


You ain't supposed to use TDs when the mob has 50% damage reduction. You're supposed to use Halberts and Twin Slashers for those. >.>

[Yoruichi]

I use dual daggers for interupts not damage, thats what I use sword(crowd) and spear(single) for. As for CC I use single dagger since both PAs have CC one keeps the mobs where you hit them.

[tetsuo_3035]

i like the single rippers pa for crowd controll on the second hit...not to mention i dont die because one key thing your forgetting is not to stand right in front of whatever your fighting...they cant hit anything to the side or behind em for a reson lol

[Garnet_Moon]

This one force called me an idiot for running into 4x Vahras, side-stepping so they swung and hit the air and then used the TD PA twice when they did their backwards shuffle. The Ranger then LOL'd when all 4 went after him(the force) and almost killed him.

Silly force.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-14 21:51 ]</font>

[Genobee]

yea I have to say the Sword is the worst crowd control weapon evar...

A it's so slow that if your gettting attacked by multi enemies that they will beat the crap out of you

B if they don't hit you you'll probly block and screw up your PA

C the PA only does damage and doesn't knock back or any thing so the enemies will just attack right threw it.

[BloodDragoon]

Now if they'd make a weapon that can kill the almighty monster known as lag. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Or I need to stop DL'ing torrents while playing this game... >.>

[Yoruichi]

No its funnier when the force equips a spear and runs in on a captain or king type and gets mauled if not 1shotted.

[tetsuo_3035]

i laugh at all the people who dont fight smart in this game its a waist of pp and mates when all you need to do to survive is move this isnt final fantasy they call it an "action" rpg for a reason....freedom to dodge and other such things like that

[Aaomi]

On 2006-11-14 21:47, tetsuo_3035 wrote:
i like the single rippers pa for crowd controll on the second hit...not to mention i dont die because one key thing your forgetting is not to stand right in front of whatever your fighting...they cant hit anything to the side or behind em for a reson lol


When fighting those big guys that has the AoE ice around themselves, that PA has gotten me into some of the funniest frozen poses http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Xbob]

On 2006-11-14 21:51, Yoruichi wrote:
No its funnier when the force equips a spear and runs in on a captain or king type and gets mauled if not 1shotted.



This hasn't even happened in a negative parrallel universe.

[tetsuo_3035]

lol when they get you upside down and stuff i know.. i got frozen mid suv one time it was a bad ass pose too

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-11-14 21:56, Xbob wrote:
On 2006-11-14 21:51, Yoruichi wrote:
No its funnier when the force equips a spear and runs in on a captain or king type and gets mauled if not 1shotted.



This hasn't even happened in a negative parrallel universe.



Play in enough pugs and you'll see it. I dunno if its PP problems or now bow. I've had 2 forces do it to me, one with a spear one with twin daggers.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-14 21:56, Xbob wrote:
On 2006-11-14 21:51, Yoruichi wrote:
No its funnier when the force equips a spear and runs in on a captain or king type and gets mauled if not 1shotted.



This hasn't even happened in a negative parrallel universe.


Well i've seena Force without a Rod/Staff use a Handgun and Saber with the Rising Strike PA. He tried to use it like a Hunter but with it being at a gimped level the mobs didn't fly up. He cost us an S Rank so he was booted. It was kind of funny... he was the first one into the fray and the last one out of it. >.>

[Yoruichi]

xbob, apparently, has yet to even explore the 18 positive universes we have availible.

[BloodDragoon]

I've had monsters get stuck in funny poses from getting frozen as they went flying thru the air from the second set of hits from a saber PA lol.

[DaizaThe7th]

RAWR I let the FORCE take all teh damage!!
.....
I learned more by playing the game than this thread..
Good Job..
Keep up the good work.


In all seriousness if you really want CC just bust out twin sabers and spin around during the second action of the PA.... GG

RAWR I HAVE SPOKEN

[BloodDragoon]

On 2006-11-14 22:15, DaizaThe7th wrote:
RAWR I let the FORCE take all teh damage!!
.....
I learned more by playing the game than this thread..
Good Job..
Keep up the good work.


In all seriousness if you really want CC just bust out twin sabers and spin around during the second action of the PA.... GG

RAWR I HAVE SPOKEN



And let it rain Polti's from the heavens afterwards. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Maskim]

[b]

In all seriousness if you really want CC just bust out twin sabers and spin around during the second action of the PA.... GG

RAWR I HAVE SPOKEN



Exactly.

To disagree with some folks a bit though, sword can be great crowd control. In specialized situations, that is. When soloing, or when seperated from the majority of the party, I often use the sword to minimize damage. Run through enemies, round them up all after me, then move to the side and wait for them to all come after me. The trick that most sword weilders don't seem to get is to only hit 1 or 2 times, unless that 3rd swing will off the enemies. What I like about the hit twice and move with the sword is that you don't get hit, because the sword hits hard enough to flinch most enemies near one's level, and even if it doesn't, you're moving before they strike (if it doesn't flinch them you're moving while they are winding up to hit), and as they're all trying to get to you, from one side, 9 out of 10 times, you're only facing 2 of them while the others are trying in futility to climb over the ones closest to you. If you don't know how to use the sword effectivly though, don't. With no knockback, as others have said, this fun weapon gets the novice hunter hurt for as much, or more, than it's dishing out.

To the OP, the heart of the post is in the right place, but it would seem some of the specific advice is a bit off.

Common sense stuff, but unfortunatly common sense isn't all too common.

[SonicTMP]

ya know, I haven't run into idiot pugs here yet. on WoW ya alot. In psu the worse i've seen is 2 forces in fanatics who wanted to use diga on everything and didn't know what heal/reserver was. or barta.. foir... zonde...

[Drown]

Here's the funny thing about PSU. It's an action adventure game in which everyone can easily take care of themselves.

Phantasy star has always been less about party roles, more about personal responsibilities.

Bring a means to heal yourself, either techniques or items, period. Don't depend on the force, because, quite frankly, while I look after my buddy's health out of courtesy, if I don't want to, or I'm on the other side of the room, it's all you.

Party roles is a ridiculous construction. Hunters can use mates, and forces can easily deal enough damage to deal with creatures without the need for a hunter handling "crowd control" or "tanking." Not to mention you can just move away from the creatures.

Phantasy Star is not that kind of game, if you want a game with overly structured class roles, go back to WoW.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-14 22:50, Drown wrote:
Here's the funny thing about PSU. It's an action adventure game in which everyone can easily take care of themselves.

Phantasy star has always been less about party roles, more about personal responsibilities.

Bring a means to heal yourself, either techniques or items, period. Don't depend on the force, because, quite frankly, while I look after my buddy's health out of courtesy, if I don't want to, or I'm on the other side of the room, it's all you.

Party roles is a ridiculous construction. Hunters can use mates, and forces can easily deal enough damage to deal with creatures without the need for a hunter handling "crowd control" or "tanking." Not to mention you can just move away from the creatures.

Phantasy Star is not that kind of game, if you want a game with overly structured class roles, go back to WoW.


OK.

When my 20 Dimates and Trimates run dry becaus you're being gay with your role in my party don't you dare say a thing when I die and cost us the S Rank. Why? Because i'll boot you. I'll boot you with my big, black, super-shiny and polished boot.

Item heals are only for solo and/or spot heals when the Force is on the other side of the room and can't get to you quickly. They run dry so fast when the Force isn't doing his or her job that it's not funny. We can't dodge everything, and often times the things we can't dodge hurt alot.

You have Resta. Use it, or go solo.

You want me to use Di/Tris exclusively? Then you damn well better bring 20 of each extra for me when mine run out, because I sure as hell aren't buying them if you're not going to do your job properly. The initial 20 I keep stocked on me for each outing is it. Any more are acquired on site.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-14 23:07 ]</font>

[BloodDragoon]

Just wait till S rank difficulty becomes available on missions and you find those 4 Vahra commanders. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Drown]

On 2006-11-14 23:03, Garnet_Moon wrote:
On 2006-11-14 22:50, Drown wrote:
Here's the funny thing about PSU. It's an action adventure game in which everyone can easily take care of themselves.

Phantasy star has always been less about party roles, more about personal responsibilities.

Bring a means to heal yourself, either techniques or items, period. Don't depend on the force, because, quite frankly, while I look after my buddy's health out of courtesy, if I don't want to, or I'm on the other side of the room, it's all you.

Party roles is a ridiculous construction. Hunters can use mates, and forces can easily deal enough damage to deal with creatures without the need for a hunter handling "crowd control" or "tanking." Not to mention you can just move away from the creatures.

Phantasy Star is not that kind of game, if you want a game with overly structured class roles, go back to WoW.


OK.

When my 20 Dimates and Trimates run dry becaus you're being gay with your role in my party don't you dare say a thing when I die and cost us the S Rank. Why? Because i'll boot you. I'll boot you with my big, black, super-shiny and polished boot.

Item heals are only for solo and/or spot heals when the Force is on the other side of the room and can't get to you quickly. They run dry so fast when the Force isn't doing his or her job that it's not funny. We can't dodge everything, and often times the things we can't dodge hurt alot.

You have Resta. Use it, or go solo.

You want me to use Di/Tris exclusively? Then you damn well better bring 20 of each extra for me when mine run out, because I sure as hell aren't buying them if you're not going to do your job properly. The initial 20 I keep stocked on me for each outing is it. Any more are acquired on site.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-14 23:07 ]</font>




You actually run out of 20 dimates and trimates? Including pickups? In one run? Hell, you can even carry some atomizers around to bump the number up to 50 healing items.

Man, if you actually used that many healing items and died, then proceeded to blame me, then you'd better damn well hope that you're the party leader. Otherwise, I'd boot you myself for blaming me while you show a talent for taking damage.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-14 23:12, Drown wrote:
On 2006-11-14 23:03, Garnet_Moon wrote:
On 2006-11-14 22:50, Drown wrote:
Here's the funny thing about PSU. It's an action adventure game in which everyone can easily take care of themselves.

Phantasy star has always been less about party roles, more about personal responsibilities.

Bring a means to heal yourself, either techniques or items, period. Don't depend on the force, because, quite frankly, while I look after my buddy's health out of courtesy, if I don't want to, or I'm on the other side of the room, it's all you.

Party roles is a ridiculous construction. Hunters can use mates, and forces can easily deal enough damage to deal with creatures without the need for a hunter handling "crowd control" or "tanking." Not to mention you can just move away from the creatures.

Phantasy Star is not that kind of game, if you want a game with overly structured class roles, go back to WoW.


OK.

When my 20 Dimates and Trimates run dry becaus you're being gay with your role in my party don't you dare say a thing when I die and cost us the S Rank. Why? Because i'll boot you. I'll boot you with my big, black, super-shiny and polished boot.

Item heals are only for solo and/or spot heals when the Force is on the other side of the room and can't get to you quickly. They run dry so fast when the Force isn't doing his or her job that it's not funny. We can't dodge everything, and often times the things we can't dodge hurt alot.

You have Resta. Use it, or go solo.

You want me to use Di/Tris exclusively? Then you damn well better bring 20 of each extra for me when mine run out, because I sure as hell aren't buying them if you're not going to do your job properly. The initial 20 I keep stocked on me for each outing is it. Any more are acquired on site.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-14 23:07 ]</font>




You actually run out of 20 dimates and trimates? Including pickups? In one run? Hell, you can even carry some atomizers around to bump the number up to 50 healing items.

Man, if you actually used that many healing items and died, then proceeded to blame me, then you'd better damn well hope that you're the party leader. Otherwise, I'd boot you myself for blaming me while you show a talent for taking damage.


You must be one of those guys who have never set foot on Neudaiz, and instead choose to level exclusivly on Parum.

Hell, I don't need you or your kind on Parum. That's easy mode. Neudaiz... meh. I suppose not having to go back after each block for more healing items is nice. I guess.

[Maskim]

On 2006-11-14 23:12, Drown wrote:



You actually run out of 20 dimates and trimates? Including pickups? In one run? Hell, you can even carry some atomizers around to bump the number up to 50 healing items.

Man, if you actually used that many healing items and died, then proceeded to blame me, then you'd better damn well hope that you're the party leader. Otherwise, I'd boot you myself for blaming me while you show a talent for taking damage.




Alright, now while Garnet's self righteous attitude often times bugs me, even when I agree with what s/he's got to say, I think you're missing something while you talk sh*t here, man. You're lvl 25, running C and B rank missions. At lvl 50, even with lvl 50 stats, hp, and longer playing time/learned skills, you're going to get hit sometimes. Grove A enemies are going to hit for a lot. All A enemies are going to hit for a lot, so you're going to use your healing items, maybe all of them. That's what they're there for after all, but you don't need to talk down to someone because they use more healing in A class missions, than a whole party needs in C class missions.

[SonicTMP]

Including pickups?

funny thing abuot that part. Ya know that random/order distrubution everyone plays with? Makes it hard for a hunter to stockpile mates when they get shared. Lets also point out that PP costs like 200% less than 20 monomates. And PP regens! wow... i'd love for a mega-man E-tank that would fill up in mid battle and be reusable.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2006-11-14 22:15, DaizaThe7th wrote:

In all seriousness if you really want CC just bust out twin sabers and spin around during the second action of the PA.... GG
Yeah, this is great crowd control, but does nothing but piss people off in a party. I cannot tell you how many times I have gone into a mob of Vahras with my earth element ripper to Bute Shuren-zan then for 8 hits of 200, but that all misses because another hunter figured he'd rather hit them twice for 150.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-14 23:22, Maskim wrote:
On 2006-11-14 23:12, Drown wrote:



You actually run out of 20 dimates and trimates? Including pickups? In one run? Hell, you can even carry some atomizers around to bump the number up to 50 healing items.

Man, if you actually used that many healing items and died, then proceeded to blame me, then you'd better damn well hope that you're the party leader. Otherwise, I'd boot you myself for blaming me while you show a talent for taking damage.




Alright, now while Garnet's self righteous attitude often times bugs me, even when I agree with what s/he's got to say, I think you're missing something while you talk sh*t here, man. You're lvl 25, running C and B rank missions. At lvl 50, even with lvl 50 stats, hp, and longer playing time/learned skills, you're going to get hit sometimes. Grove A enemies are going to hit for a lot. All A enemies are going to hit for a lot, so you're going to use your healing items, maybe all of them. That's what they're there for after all, but you don't need to talk down to someone because they use more healing in A class missions, than a whole party needs in C class missions.


What you call self righteous I call confidence. I guess it's the same thing though. Close enough for me anyway.

[Drown]

On 2006-11-14 23:22, Maskim wrote:
On 2006-11-14 23:12, Drown wrote:



You actually run out of 20 dimates and trimates? Including pickups? In one run? Hell, you can even carry some atomizers around to bump the number up to 50 healing items.

Man, if you actually used that many healing items and died, then proceeded to blame me, then you'd better damn well hope that you're the party leader. Otherwise, I'd boot you myself for blaming me while you show a talent for taking damage.




Alright, now while Garnet's self righteous attitude often times bugs me, even when I agree with what s/he's got to say, I think you're missing something while you talk sh*t here, man. You're lvl 25, running C and B rank missions. At lvl 50, even with lvl 50 stats, hp, and longer playing time/learned skills, you're going to get hit sometimes. Grove A enemies are going to hit for a lot. All A enemies are going to hit for a lot, so you're going to use your healing items, maybe all of them. That's what they're there for after all, but you don't need to talk down to someone because they use more healing in A class missions, than a whole party needs in C class missions.



Of course the game gets harder, just like every other PS game, not to mention any other game, since traditionally the trend is to get harder, rather than easier. Not to mention the amount of damage that can be spread around through six different party members, all of which should be prepared to heal.

Which I wouldn't have a problem with if Garnet was able to make a point without being an abnoxious moron about.

Nothing personal to you hunters out there, hell, I heal constantly. All I was saying is be prepared, if you are unprepared, then you deserve what you get.

[BloodDragoon]

On 2006-11-14 23:22, Maskim wrote:
On 2006-11-14 23:12, Drown wrote:



You actually run out of 20 dimates and trimates? Including pickups? In one run? Hell, you can even carry some atomizers around to bump the number up to 50 healing items.

Man, if you actually used that many healing items and died, then proceeded to blame me, then you'd better damn well hope that you're the party leader. Otherwise, I'd boot you myself for blaming me while you show a talent for taking damage.




Alright, now while Garnet's self righteous attitude often times bugs me, even when I agree with what s/he's got to say, I think you're missing something while you talk sh*t here, man. You're lvl 25, running C and B rank missions. At lvl 50, even with lvl 50 stats, hp, and longer playing time/learned skills, you're going to get hit sometimes. Grove A enemies are going to hit for a lot. All A enemies are going to hit for a lot, so you're going to use your healing items, maybe all of them. That's what they're there for after all, but you don't need to talk down to someone because they use more healing in A class missions, than a whole party needs in C class missions.



Not so much the damage from getting hit on A rank missions. I never found A rank difficult on Parum. However on Neudaiz the issue here is that 1 thing that finally hits you can do fun status effects you cant self heal with a antimate which are frozen and paralyze and this leads up to more things hitting you since your eva officially becomes 0 and you cant do crap till it wears off or someone else cures it. In either case you usually get hit atleast 3-4 times before being able to move, use items, etc and this is where the mates dissappear quickly when the force isnt supporting people with healing provided the frozen/paralyzed character didn't die before the status effect wore off.

[Maskim]

On 2006-11-14 23:31, Garnet_Moon wrote:
What you call self righteous I call confidence. I guess it's the same thing though. Close enough for me anyway.



Nah, confidence is knowing you can handle some/anything, and not letting anything/one stand in your way while you do it. Self righteousness in this sense would be telling everyone exactly how they need to play the game, because it's how you do it, and they'll get booted from their group for differentiating even in the slightest.

Keep in mind, even while berating or whatever I'm doing, because I hate the way in which you voice your opinions on hunter tactics, I do agree with most of what you have to say. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-14 23:41, Maskim wrote:
On 2006-11-14 23:31, Garnet_Moon wrote:
What you call self righteous I call confidence. I guess it's the same thing though. Close enough for me anyway.



Nah, confidence is knowing you can handle some/anything, and not letting anything/one stand in your way while you do it. Self righteousness in this sense would be telling everyone exactly how they need to play the game, because it's how you do it, and they'll get booted from their group for differentiating even in the slightest.

Keep in mind, even while berating or whatever I'm doing, because I hate the way in which you voice your opinions on hunter tactics, I do agree with most of what you have to say. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif


Meh. That works too.

[Drown]

On 2006-11-14 23:40, BloodDragoon wrote:
In either case you usually get hit atleast 3-4 times before being able to move, use items, etc and this is where the mates dissappear quickly when the force isnt supporting people with healing provided the frozen/paralyzed character didn't die before the status effect wore off.



That's what Anti is for http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I'm not arguing that forces are not a support class, and I'm certainly not unwilling to do my part to keep you guys standing, despite how Garnet has a flare for making it sound.

However, lets try to stay away from the "oh my god! It's all your fault I died, with absolutely no responsibility to be held by myself or my doing!"

Ultimately, like most things, we all do or die because of our own actions, not those of others. If everyone is prepared to look after themselves when the need arises, and it does, then we're all in for an easier time as a result.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-14 23:50, Drown wrote:
Ultimately, like most things, we all do or die because of our own actions, not those of others. If everyone is prepared to look after themselves when the need arises, and it does, then we're all in for an easier time as a result.


I dare you to say that when a stray megid from another mob somebody else is fighting nails you when you're stuck in the healing animation for another person.

[Maskim]

On 2006-11-14 23:34, Drown wrote:

Of course the game gets harder, just like every other PS game, not to mention any other game, since traditionally the trend is to get harder, rather than easier. Not to mention the amount of damage that can be spread around through six different party members, all of which should be prepared to heal.

Which I wouldn't have a problem with if Garnet was able to make a point without being an abnoxious moron about.

Nothing personal to you hunters out there, hell, I heal constantly. All I was saying is be prepared, if you are unprepared, then you deserve what you get.



I'll agree with that. I expect and think Forces should heal. I don't count on them to though. Trusting someone you've just met in a PUG with your life, without having a backup plan, like mates on the pallette or dodging, in case they don't do that part of their job, is just asking to die.

Also, no, it's not a Force's only, or even primary, job to heal. It is however a portion of their job. That's why the class discriptions always list Force as the 'hard' class for 'advanced' players. It's not because it's so much more difficult to cast than it is to hit or shoot, it's because as a class, they have more responsibilities. Sometimes people get pissed because 'I signed up to be a force, not a cleric', but there are no 'clerics', that job goes to force. That's just the way Phantasy Star is. Magic may be catagorized, but magic users are not. You want the phenominal godly spells to make mortals either bow down, or burn to a crisp? You also get the resta to bring them back.

A force who devotes all his attention to only one aspect of his spell arsennal, such as just damage while ignoring healing and buffs(when released), is just as foolish as the hunter who doesn't bring mates to heal themselves in a pinch.

[lavosmanx]

My points on subjects 1 and 2 was if your not going to use crowd control weapons, then use tactics. And for your information, a weapon can be suited for damage and crowd control. Twin daggers are crowd control and forces aren't there just to heal you. They have the right to kill mobs as much as a hunter or a ranger does. In the game it is solely about us taking care of ourselves. Personally I think if you go through 50 healing items and it not being a major fight to worry about, your pretty stupid. Actually let's see here...

20 x monos
20 x dis
20 x tris
10 x star atomizers

Thats around 70 healing items you could have on you. Not including the ones you find along the way. It all comes down to that. I personally don't expect any force to heal me when they don't have to. BUT I do expect them to do their part in the team by atleast doing some damage. I hate leachers and I am not saying forces are leechers, all I am saying is a force like a ranger or hunter should be doing something. And personally, yes, I do consider the sword to be a crowd control weapon... just a really poor one. Because it has the capacity to hit more then one foe with one attack. Given a slow attack, but a multi-enemy hit at that.

If anything whether in Photon Art or without photon arts can strike multiple enemies, then it can be deemed a multi hit weapon. Even sabers are if you know how to use them. And in the end, that is all it really ammounts to. It is not the weapon that makes us, but more like we that make the weapon. I just prefer twin daggers because their alot easier to use for crowd control. But I have no problem using any weapon... except a twin claw... don't like em much.

And for you folks, I am a hunter. But some of you more stupid folk need to realize that in the end it is how you use your brain and how you rely on yourself.

[Drown]

On 2006-11-14 23:52, Maskim wrote:
On 2006-11-14 23:34, Drown wrote:

Of course the game gets harder, just like every other PS game, not to mention any other game, since traditionally the trend is to get harder, rather than easier. Not to mention the amount of damage that can be spread around through six different party members, all of which should be prepared to heal.

Which I wouldn't have a problem with if Garnet was able to make a point without being an abnoxious moron about.

Nothing personal to you hunters out there, hell, I heal constantly. All I was saying is be prepared, if you are unprepared, then you deserve what you get.



I'll agree with that. I expect and think Forces should heal. I don't count on them to though. Trusting someone you've just met in a PUG with your life, without having a backup plan, like mates on the pallette or dodging, in case they don't do that part of their job, is just asking to die.

Also, no, it's not a Force's only, or even primary, job to heal. It is however a portion of their job. That's why the class discriptions always list Force as the 'hard' class for 'advanced' players. It's not because it's so much more difficult to cast than it is to hit or shoot, it's because as a class, they have more responsibilities. Sometimes people get pissed because 'I signed up to be a force, not a cleric', but there are no 'clerics', that job goes to force. That's just the way Phantasy Star is. Magic may be catagorized, but magic users are not. You want the phenominal godly spells to make mortals either bow down, or burn to a crisp? You also get the resta to bring them back.

A force who devotes all his attention to only one aspect of his spell arsennal, such as just damage while ignoring healing and buffs(when released), is just as foolish as the hunter who doesn't bring mates to heal themselves in a pinch.



Couldn't have said it better myself, buddy.
Just as forces need to realize that healing is a part of their role, hunters need to realize that sometimes they need to look after themselves.

God, I can't wait for the buffs.

[Drown]

On 2006-11-14 23:52, Garnet_Moon wrote:



I dare you to say that when a stray megid from another mob somebody else is fighting nails you when you're stuck in the healing animation for another person.

[/quote]

Oh, I have been there, about a thousand times between the dreamcast, to the xbox, to the pc, to PSU. And, for your information, I don't blame a hunter for that, since things happen, plans go awry and battles turn on you.

So quit your complaining and take some responsibility for yourself.

[BloodDragoon]

Well there's always option #2 in that I bring loads of photon charges instead of mates and spam knockback PA's effectively throwing the enemies everywhere. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif But ppl dont seem to like that either. But hey they cant hit me if they're constantly flying through the air right?

Honestly this bit about forces and supporting hunters goes both ways. There are forces that end up with hunters that expect them to do nothing but support and blame the force when they die. Theres also hunters that end up partied with forces that refuse to support them at all.

My opinion. Forces in PSU are like Summoners in FFXI. The have the potential to deal a nice amount of damage but so many ppl want to stick them as "healer only"

[Drown]

On 2006-11-14 23:59, BloodDragoon wrote:
Well there's always option #2 in that I bring loads of photon charges instead of mates and spam knockback PA's effectively throwing the enemies everywhere. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif But ppl dont seem to like that either. But hey they cant hit me if they're constantly flying through the air right?



Kind of expensive, but your heart is in the right place. Hahaha.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-14 23:54, lavosmanx wrote:
your pretty stupid.
lol

...ok, i'm sorry. I'll be serious now.

20 x monos
20 x dis
20 x tris
10 x star atomizers

Thats around 70 healing items you could have on you. Not including the ones you find along the way. It all comes down to that. I personally don't expect any force to heal me when they don't have to. BUT I do expect them to do their part in the team by atleast doing some damage. I hate leachers and I am not saying forces are leechers, all I am saying is a force like a ranger or hunter should be doing something.
I expect every Force I party with to do the bulk of the healing. I have absolutely no problem using my items to cure myself, but only if the Force is using all of his spells and tools he has to his advantage as well. If they aren't showing any resolve to help with the healing load, then i'll just sit there and die and wait for him to say something before I rip his head off.

If they aren't using Resta, they ain't leveling it. Gimped Resta will mean gimped Forces when we get S Rank missions. Couple that with very limited return of healing items in a party with random/line, and it only makes sense for them to do it. Hell, I keep 4-5 Photon Charges on me in case they need them to compensate. I'm not selfish, i'm just trying to be realistic. You're not going to have sufficient items without running back to the city to restock them especially when we get S Ranks. Some of these missions are already costly when when there isn't a Force around. I can't imagine how exponentially higher it's going to get for the S Rank versions.

And for you folks, I am a hunter. But some of you more stupid folk need to realize that in the end it is how you use your brain and how you rely on yourself.


Exactly. I rely on myself to have the confidense in the Forces who I party with to heal me when I need it. If I'm able to heal myself and the Force is occupied, then I will do so myself. I don't expect them to do it all, just most of it.

NOTE: As it stands, when I say bulk I mean now. With current A Rank missions. I can see myself using alot more healing items on my part for S Rank missions. Hell, i've seen some Forces use healing items on themselves to save PP in Grove of Fanatics A.

When we get S Ranks though we'll have hybrids to help with the healing load, so it won't be too bad on you guys. I just wish we could have more Dimate slots. Then it wouldn't be a problem.

[Stryfe1]

You speak as though I need your advice.

Stryfe's hands on top notch Hunter lessons (Just watch me) = $19.95 plus tax

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-15 00:27, Stryfe1 wrote:
You speak as though I need your advice.

Stryfe's hands on top notch Hunter lessons (Just watch me) = $19.95 plus tax


Do you take PayPal? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[juno-6]

just bring along a ranger, its what SWAT does when riots happen.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: juno-6 on 2006-11-15 00:36 ]</font>

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-15 00:34, juno-6 wrote:
just bring along a ranger, like SWAT's do with riots.


Shock rounds make everything so much easier. Hell, even my gimped lv10 bullet from my handgun does wonders when the paralysis effect hits.

[Rokiv]

On 2006-11-15 00:35, Garnet_Moon wrote:
On 2006-11-15 00:34, juno-6 wrote:
just bring along a ranger, like SWAT's do with riots.


Shock rounds make everything so much easier. Hell, even my gimped lv10 bullet from my handgun does wonders when the paralysis effect hits.



Tell that to those goddamned robots. "LOL SHOCK? HAHA I STILL SPIT FIREBALLS, NOOB."

Bastards.

[FrogKicker]

Fanatics A is currently the only mission that requires intelligence...If you actually need some kind of battle plan to do anything else, please stick with F3 C. Me(hunter) and my buddy teh uber force can two man everything except Fanatics A.

If you level on parum(if you actually need this "guide" here, you most likely do) the best form of CC is to have someone kite all the mobs around the room while you pick em off one at a time. Pretty much works everywhere but isn't super efficient on Neudaiz thanks to the wormies.

[McLaughlin]

On 2006-11-14 21:33, lavosmanx wrote:
Alright since we seem to be having a problem with hunters avoiding death because of their inability to crowd control. So I thought we should assemble a guide to help these poor and very stupid hunters in need.

1. Use the right weapons...
> This can be the causes of the problem at times. But wait, it is a simple solution... Use weapons like swords and twin daggers. Generally if a weapon has a very excellent crowd control photon art, then you should consider using this weapon. You can use different weapons for different crowd control strategies however. More on that in the next explanation.

2. Use Crowd Control Tactics...
> These tactics or strategies are useful if you want to be original. However don't get too original or fancy or you might die. Remember, there are different tactics for different situations. Remember to use the right weapons for the right tactic if your not into using pure crowd control weaponry. (see discussion #1 in this post).

3. Bring healing items, and lots of them!
> Healing items are your best friend, not the force. You should be healing yourself and relying on them allot less. After all, it doesn't take THAT long to use the healing items from the items palette. You should bring monomates and dimates, star atomizers and moon atomizers, and lastly scapedolls. Remember, star atomizers can heal you. For the moment your focusing on you and noone else. As a hunter, it is NOT your job to heal anyone else except to revive them when needed. The more you focus on healing others, the more you are likely to die. Also you should keep photon chargers with you at all times because you never know when you will run out of PP.

4. Teamwork = Success
> While you are a hunter, do your job to support your allies from the front lines as best as possible. Don't be a glory hog and go ahead of everyone else. Remember, there are times when great numbers achieve incredible results.



It doesn't matter how reckless I'm being. If I'm dead, YOU aren't doing YOUR JOB as a FORCE.

We don't come here and bitch about Force tactics, so stop telling ME how to play MY JOB. I've been at it longer than you.

[Randomness]

On 2006-11-14 23:28, SonicTMP wrote:
Including pickups?

funny thing abuot that part. Ya know that random/order distrubution everyone plays with? Makes it hard for a hunter to stockpile mates when they get shared. Lets also point out that PP costs like 200% less than 20 monomates. And PP regens! wow... i'd love for a mega-man E-tank that would fill up in mid battle and be reusable.



Have you seen the regen rate on rods? Its maybe 9 PP a tick, with a long time between ticks. And Resta costs 30 PP for the base version, and 40 PP after level 11 for the upgraded version. Even with 1,000 PP, I can easily drain the entire rod doing Grove B. Whenever I try Grove A, I'll probably put Resta and Reverser on every rod I have and still need Photon Charges.

[Miyoko]

On 2006-11-15 04:13, Zeta wrote:
It doesn't matter how reckless I'm being. If I'm dead, YOU aren't doing YOUR JOB as a FORCE.

We don't come here and bitch about Force tactics, so stop telling ME how to play MY JOB. I've been at it longer than you.


Just because you've been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean you're doing it right. Your narrow minded attitude is only going to prevent you from getting better (but, the original post wasn't exactly introduced politely, either, I'll give you that).

I've been "rangering it up" for quite some time, but I still peek at the "HOW TO BE A RANGER" threads, for the simple reason that I may learn something new and useful.

Learning to change your tactics will not only benifit yourself, but your teamates, too. Try to take an open mind, and instead of instantly blowing suggestions off as if someone trying to give you pointers was taboo, take into consideration of how toyign with the ideas might help you. If you already do the listed ideas, great; if you don't, and you try them, and they work out to benifit you, hey, that's even better; if you try them, and the ideas suck and get you nowhere, then don't use them.

Forces aren't baby-sitters, you know: don't rely on them for resta, that'll just get you burned. And if you end up dead, it might be your fault, it might not be, but chances are, -everyone- on the team could've done something different to avoid that outcome.

[Blu_Swade]

just remember that a strategic retreat is a valid tactic, if you're getting blasted run away from the mob and approach from another angle, I play offlione, but this is what I've been doing since PSO. I love how you can have a gun with your blade, makes for some strategic stuff, I like to knock 'em away with rising strike then fire some (special, frozen works well, that is unless the enemies online have higher resistances...) handgun shots at 'em as I shuffle closer to it, once it gets back up, 'nother rising strike, that usually works well for stronger enemies in my experience, but I'm offline, so what do I know? XD



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blu_Swade on 2006-11-15 05:36 ]</font>

[wiseman]

On 2006-11-15 00:05, Garnet_Moon wrote:
I expect every Force I party with to do the bulk of the healing. I have absolutely no problem using my items to cure myself, but only if the Force is using all of his spells and tools he has to his advantage as well. If they aren't showing any resolve to help with the healing load, then i'll just sit there and die and wait for him to say something before I rip his head off.

If they aren't using Resta, they ain't leveling it. Gimped Resta will mean gimped Forces when we get S Rank missions. Couple that with very limited return of healing items in a party with random/line, and it only makes sense for them to do it. Hell, I keep 4-5 Photon Charges on me in case they need them to compensate. I'm not selfish, i'm just trying to be realistic. You're not going to have sufficient items without running back to the city to restock them especially when we get S Ranks. Some of these missions are already costly when when there isn't a Force around. I can't imagine how exponentially higher it's going to get for the S Rank versions.
Actual Force chiming in. I hate to tell you this, but I'm not your personal healbot and, for a game like PSU, I shouldn't be expected to be. I have better things to do -- namely trying to tag everything with an autogun because Hunters like you are scattering the mobs in every direction. Like others have said, this game doesn't really require sophisticated class structures. You don't *need* a dedicated healer or tank or whatever. I've been in all Hunter parties and it's worked fine. So you don't really need the Force in the party healing everybody 24/7. If he or she is, they're just gimping themselves and the party. Sure, I'll heal you when I can get around to it, but I'm not going to hold your hand the whole mission.

[Yoiyami]

It really all boils down to knowing better than just rushing into a mob of monsters and getting pummeled to the point where you can't even move. Most are trying to get all the ITAMZ and think they'll have a better chance of tapping all the monsters for exp if they get in the middle of them and spam PAs until every one is hit, then run for the items. Oh, and if they die, it's time to yell at the force for being "too lazy" to run into the gang of monsters to heal them and risk dying like a dummy too.

That's the most popular tactic and strategy right now. "Take as much as you can get." So, maybe there's a need for more "How To Be a Hunter" and "Stop Dying" threads. *shrug*

[Blu_Swade]

right, if your health is low heal yourself or GO TO THE FORCE, forces don't stand a chance in close quarters, especially if you, A HUNTER, are taking heavy damage!
Common sense, also if the force dies...
I'm offline, but if I ever make it online, I shan't rely on the force's resta, when my hp drops past my comfort level (this varies based on how much damage I'm taking, I like to keep it full, but if the monsters are especially weak I'll let it fall as far as half way before healing, any lower really bothers me...), I will heal myself, also I like to carry scape dolls, although my extra mode char don' have any because I never need them and the 5000 meseta is really handy.
Remember, a team is only as strong as its weakest member.
(But, again, I'm offline, so what do I know?)

[Wheatpenny]

Don't forget there is another solution to the running out of PP buisines albeit rather expensive.Instead of using consumable photon rechargers just bring more than one of the same weapon that you like to use.Plenty of PP to go around.

[Drown]

Nice to see some other forces chiming in.

[Magician]

Perhaps the expert classes of Fortecher and Wartecher will help better draw the line between a nuker and a support force. I personally believe forces should never be expected to resta all the time. In between mob encounters, while traveling between map sections, is prime time to heal in B and C rank missions. Unless they announce that they intend on babysitting you should expect all forces to be nukers early on.

Once in the A rank missions though, with the level cap as it is, forces should be more support than nuker. Two forces to a party is the choice arrangement as they can trade off being a nuker or support, changing every block perhaps. Hunters, if your health gets to around 50% depletion and you want a resta, get out of the fight a bring your rearend to the force. Disengage, don't keep fighting and expect the force to come'a'runnin', he/she may be too busy.

[Pure-chan]

On 2006-11-14 21:53, Aaomi wrote:

When fighting those big guys that has the AoE ice around themselves, that PA has gotten me into some of the funniest frozen poses http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif



QFT http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[lavosmanx]

I am NOT a force, I as a hunter just think that us hunters could stand to improve. I mean let's be honest shall we? How many of us hunters here have the IQ of a chicken? I'm sure some of you noticed that the chicken population is here in PSO World.

As for how I put my post, I was just being honest. I have seen some real BMCing around here about the role that forces are supposed to be. Forces should be anything they want. I mean it would be nice to have one that uses a resta. But I won't care if they decide to be pure war mage.

And I think some of you could stand to improve your tactics with the way you carry on around these here parts... In ANY game when someone I'm with needs a hand, I will help them in a variety of ways. From giving them meseta to giving them an item that could help them.

[Nietzsche]

Assume the force will let you die and rott untill shown otherwise
also correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't ranger also have some responsibility for crowd control
we've all partied with excellent forces, then i've checked forces that had resta at level 3 20-30+ you never know which your going to get, be prepared either way.

[lavosmanx]

True but in the end, everyone has the ability to crowd control if I'm correct.

[Zarbolord]

Gifoie... Gizonde... GIbarta... anything that controls crowds for forces works pretty well. As for Rangers they just hit from far or use grenade launchers or shotguns. The perfect crowd control would be a pure of the class, so Forte classes. I'd expect the half classes to be in between the two, nuking and buffing/healing/debuffing. I myself am going to specialise in the light and ice techniques and I'll be a Guntecher, so I think it's more of a pure/nonpure thing.

[Cause_I_Own_U]

I got two words for this topic.

Twin. fucin. sabers. d00d.

Huge damage and crowd control all wraped into one baby

[Maskim]

On 2006-11-15 12:02, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:
I got two words for this topic.

Twin. fucin. sabers. d00d.



That's. four. words. d00d.

[SonicTMP]

On 2006-11-15 04:18, Randomness wrote:

Have you seen the regen rate on rods? Its maybe 9 PP a tick, with a long time between ticks. And Resta costs 30 PP for the base version, and 40 PP after level 11 for the upgraded version. Even with 1,000 PP, I can easily drain the entire rod doing Grove B. Whenever I try Grove A, I'll probably put Resta and Reverser on every rod I have and still need Photon Charges.



The point is PP costs peanuts compaired to mates. A 40 pp resta that can heal for 500+ will costs what... like 15 meseta? A single monomate costs 30 and only heals 150.

A force's healing is vastly superior to item heals. Magic healing is always better than items in any game.

Forces are labeled as an advanced class. If you can't micomanage a little to keep your team healed and fight then you need to drop down to an eaiser class.

[KirinDave]

As a force player, I can't help but notice the incredible hunter-bias in a lot of this. Forces are expected to heal first, to the exclusion of everything else. And even if we can do damage, we shouldn't because that's hunter domain, keep healing and tag with a handgun! Not enough PP, well then you'd better put it on EVERY WEAPON YOU HAVE. If your caster weapons aren't glowing white, we might as well kick you, eh?

Oh, and heaven forbid the hunters work forces into their tactics. Many are fare more concerned with playing like it's actually solo mode. After all, hunters do the damage and send mobs flying!

Maybe I should start playing ranger more.

[FrogKicker]

The hunters bitching about forces needing to heal them obviously suxalot. Leave the bloody forces alone, if they are competent they will heal us before we die. If not...quit playing with stupid forces....

[panzer_unit]

Crowd Control 101 For Hunters by panzer_unit

you're not

That's the whole story.

If this thread was called Crowd Control 101 For Rangers there would be a short and useful discussion of Ice and Plasma ammo and various firearms and we wouldn't have people trying to convince others who know better that this is WOW or FFXI.

In Phantasy Star you don't make some heal-bot follow you around and try to tag XP in the moments while they're not desperately keeping you alive... instead some guy with a big gun lays down hell presents you with an opening for attack. Unlike the Force who has to sacrifice all their XP and fun being your life support, the Ranger will be GLAD to provide fire support while you kill stuff. It costs way too much Photon to gun stuff all the way dead. From their end it's definitely a better way to go if their shooting allows someone else do the majority of the damage quickly and easily.

What do you do when you aren't getting up-front help like that? Help a brother out by shooting ice at one of the monsters on them, or run up and knock it over. For god's sake, kite your opponents so you're not getting creamed. Swords have long reach, letting you tag a number of monsters at a time and then move away before they can respond. Almost all other melee weapons have a PA combo that brutally hurts the monster and then leaves it incapacitated and knocked away from the rest of its group so you can finish the job efficiently one-on-one. Hunters OWN in single combat with any sort of mob... the more of that you can get into, the better.

This battle plan doesn't change AT ALL in Grove when you recognize your Ra's as the crowd control. They can stand and start icing targets until something comes after them. Either way they are taking at least one mob's attention off of everyone else, and not taking damage hand over fist while they're at it like a hunter or force would.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: panzer_unit on 2006-11-15 13:53 ]</font>

[Blu_Swade]

On 2006-11-15 12:27, KirinDave wrote:
As a force player, I can't help but notice the incredible hunter-bias in a lot of this. Forces are expected to heal first, to the exclusion of everything else. And even if we can do damage, we shouldn't because that's hunter domain, keep healing and tag with a handgun! Not enough PP, well then you'd better put it on EVERY WEAPON YOU HAVE. If your caster weapons aren't glowing white, we might as well kick you, eh?

Oh, and heaven forbid the hunters work forces into their tactics. Many are fare more concerned with playing like it's actually solo mode. After all, hunters do the damage and send mobs flying!

Maybe I should start playing ranger more.



word up. Self-reliance is the word fellow hunters, 'sides, every one loves an assault force, XD My favorite way to play 'em...
But I'm offline, so what do I know?

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, although a Force does have every right to just be a black mage, I think that they do have an incentive to cast resta, remember that if you don't cast resta and someone dies, they lose s rank. what if someone can't afford to buy mates or has run out of them and can't heal theirselves.

[Kent]

Well, here's the thing: If someone dies right next to you, when you had the time and opportunity to Resta them, you fail as a Force.

Nuking things should never take priority over keeping everyone alive. Naturally, defense before attack goes for all the classes, in their respective ways (such as not attacking enemies head-on, or attacking enemies that are about to start hurting an ally). Any good Force, or player in general, regardless of class, will realize and practice this. If you run into battle recklessly, you're going to get yourself killed, and everyone will be angry that your idiocy just cost them their S-rank... So think while you're fighting. :/

Back to specifically Forces... If you think you're going to be a purely attacking Force, it'll probably be best if you solo, play with a static party, or play something else. :/ It just doesn't work under normal circumstances. Unless, of course, you have a party that never gets hit, ever... But that doesn't happen. As a Force, it's part of your job to at least make an honest effort to keeping everyone alive, whether you're completely successful or not. Never ignore what you can/need to do, for what you just feel like doing, if you're in a serious party.

On 2006-11-14 23:03, Garnet_Moon wrote:
When my 20 Dimates and Trimates run dry becaus you're being gay
I can tell you seem to have had some bad experiences with Forces... But come on. :/

[Kalas]

Heres my 2 cents. I use what i want when i want and how I want. for one thing there are 6 of us so I shouldnt be the only one around doing all the work. Another thing is Im on the front lines as well and I get my job done as fast if not faster than all the so called pros on the game. I look after my own ass when have to and support the others only when I see that they are struggleing to keep up the pace or becoming a hinderance to the whole team.
Forces are your best freind not your healing Items, whoes gonna be there to res your ass if your items run dry during a mission, I know that Scapedoll you just used 5 seconds ago isnt gonna help your ass now is it? When your at a low lvl you are gonna taka a mass ass woopen so your items will be eaten like twix on holloween. Forces are a necessity to any party that plans on being successful, Im a hunter but I know the value of a force when im taking the most major ass woopen of my life from some monster from the x-files comes smashing my face in with an ugly stick. I cannot stress how important they are to any team of S-Rank profesionalists. Im a lvl 51 Human lvl 10 Hunter/ lvl 8 Ranger/ lvl 5 Force

[Lumaar]

Cool, almost everything is agreeable to me. Even though I am new to this forum (first forum I ever wrote in) I'm not really new to this game. Yes I hear bad Force comments, most is true but if any problems with a Force, don't join Force's game. EXP gaining is less than PSOBB and the best way to gain it is by damaging or weakening the enemy. Weakening the enemy is the worst Technique in the game. If a Force never heals the party and just kills enemies, they should just solo because they don't need a team if they just make people angry.

Good comment about Forces are not healing items, Kalas. Mates and Atomizers are, their main purpose is to help yourself incase you are near death.

Just wondering how anyone could have a bad Force experience...

Darn. I got to go now, I'll write later when I come back on!

[Blu_Swade]

you know, forces aren't the only ones who can use resta... I'm a hunter, but I still use it on occasion.
But I'm offline so what do I know? (maybe I should jus' put that in my sig, I say it enough...)