PSU: Why is healing in general such a big deal...?

[Xbob]

I don't get it. Hunters bitch about Forces not healing enough, Forces bitch about having to heal too much.

Why doesn't everyone just shut the hell up about it already? The poor horse can't even be beat, he's been ravaged into bloody dust.

To Forces (Of which I am one): There is no reason you can't whip out a wand/staff and throw Resta on whenever you see someone around half health. If you're too lazy, stop being a Force. Keeping your party alive is your main advantage in battle. This isn't PSO. They don't have heals on their own and mates aren't free, nor are they all that hard to come by, but still. There is no "way across the map," the biggest rooms take about 2 seconds to run across. If they're literally across the map, then it does become their problem.

To Hunters and very slightly to Rangers: If you rely solely on a Force to live you're a dumbass.


There. Everyone shut up.

[Randomness]

I agree there, I find too many hunters/ rangers who rely on forces for healing.

[Garnet_Moon]

I'm gonna start NPCing my healing items and scape dolls. I don't die and what little damage I do take is overriden with Me/HP Regen. If I die it's on the Force. It's clearly not my fault. I'm doing my job: Killing stuff. Nowhere in my arsenal do I have a healing spell, therefore I don't need to do any sort of healing myself.

If you lose the S Rank because of me, then go jump off a bridge because your complaints fall on deaf ears.

/wrist

>.>;

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-17 19:11 ]</font>

[Xbob]

If healing is such an incredibly huge deal (And I haven't had it so on my Hunter yet...) then invest in a healing PM. Everyone rushed to make those crappy strike PMs, fools.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-17 19:12, Xbob wrote:
If healing is such an incredibly huge deal (And I haven't had it so on my Hunter yet...) then invest in a healing PM. Everyone rushed to make those crappy strike PMs, fools.


I only need to rely on Forces for main healing me for the trickier bosses. When you use healing items when you are getting up or on the floor the item is used, but doesn't heal. You can die so easily from combos and hits when vulnerable like that. The other times, sure, i'll be lazy and hound around the Force waiting for a heal when my HP dips unreasonably low, but if they don't heal and I need the HP, i'll pop a Dimate.

Any other time they heal is fine, it's not much they heal on me anyway unless i'm being careless or sleepy.

[Ryogen]

I think it's jut the forces. Not Rangers and Hunters. Rangers don't need to complain as they are long ranged. Hunters don't complain neither unless they were "LOOKING" for a Force. All I ever here are Force complaining about Rangers and Hunters and how they are superior to them, yet they can't keep on track with healing.

Healing is a big deal bob. We use Technics or items and it gives us HP that we lose in every mission. Healing is a problem when it comes to Forces, not Hunters and Rangers and more likely it's the person playing the Force. If you can heal and was caught healing then it's your duty to help them.

Forces are mid range for crist sakes, they are usally near the party. Not only that if your on X360 we have 2 methods of communitcation. I don't see this happen too much on X360. Most who are a*ses and only want a force becuse of power are the major problems for the class.

[Xbob]

If you are quick with your fingers like me, you can generally predict or react quickly enough to use your item AS you are falling, rather than when you've hit the floor already.

[EphekZ]

What do you mean why? It's apparently the general population of people on PSU. They just need something to bitch about. if it's not unreleased content, it's resta. if not resta it's omg my weapon broke. you get the point. Don't get fed up on resta rants, as there'll be another thing someone doesnt like tomorrow.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: darkgunner on 2006-11-17 19:18 ]</font>

[Inspektahdek]

On 2006-11-17 19:09, Randomness wrote:
I agree there, I find too many hunters/ rangers who rely on forces for healing.





yea these copycat bland weak minded (not all) hunters also run away when the healing at times which pisses me off and wastes PP

on another note, I do love sonic team giving incentive to forces that heal quite a bit letting them level up their spells only by use when any dupZ0r 1337 in PSO could just get level 30 copies and use mind mats to learn it and then only use it at their discretion. Atleast FOs in PSU are healing like they should be. A FO is a determined class and either has really good ones or really horrible ones

IMO

[Garnet_Moon]

Forces don't even have to be near the party or mobs and risk their safety to heal if they fucking have Resta leveled. You can nail them from across the room, but most Forces gimp Resta so they then complain that they die when they move in to heal.

-_-

[Ras]

You can use items when you're knocked down now - it's fixed. Try it!

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-17 19:18, Ras wrote:
You can use items when you're knocked down now - it's fixed. Try it!


They fixed it?!! Are you serious? You're not messing with me, are you?

I'm gonna try it against them Grina Bete S's. If I die, I will post an emo rant here directed at you. >:O

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-17 19:19 ]</font>

[Inspektahdek]

On 2006-11-17 19:18, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Forces don't even have to be near the party or mobs and risk their safety to heal if they fucking have Resta leveled. You can nail them from across the room, but most Forces gimp Resta so they then complain that they die when they move in to heal.

-_-




I go out of my way and into harms way even if it costs me EXP to give someone their healing. WHY? Because thats part ( a very intregal ) part of our job...

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-17 19:20, Inspektahdek wrote:

On 2006-11-17 19:18, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Forces don't even have to be near the party or mobs and risk their safety to heal if they fucking have Resta leveled. You can nail them from across the room, but most Forces gimp Resta so they then complain that they die when they move in to heal.

-_-




I go out of my way and into harms way even if it costs me EXP to give someone their healing. WHY? Because thats part ( a very intregal ) part of our job...


If you stopped crying about it and kept it leveled from your first De Ragan run and up, you wouldn't need to be anywhere near them to heal them. This "Danger" BS is BS.

[Xbob]

I just never had any issues healing. I guess I'm just used to it, if someone's HP isn't full it bugs the crap out of me. Not like I don't carry a full stack of Photon Charges.

[Kent]

Er... My Resta is level... 16, I believe, and it doesn't have the range you seem to be talking about. :/ It's certainly better than it was, but it's not huge.

But, healing is only a problem to people who are lazy and/or stupid. This is both concerning using healing items on oneself, as well as casting Resta on someone who's hurt.

[Ryogen]

I call a good healer a good force. I good healer can tell when they should heal instead of when they are in yellow. It's called factics. If a force can heal but chose not to heal, I can take care of myself but I will have the monsters move to the Defence instead of me going to the offence. I think some of you need to stop complaining and just play the game. If a force don't heal then if they die, don't bring them up.

I don't have these kind of problems that much. Hunters are offence, Rangers are offence/defence and Force are defense. The least a force could do is heal when they are at least 3/5 of health. Teamwork keeps everyone alive and closer to S rank. Hunters are the true soliders of this game. They have to stand toe to toe with any foe in their way. If there is a force that can heal in the party then they should. Like a Medic in the battlefield. Rangers are the sharpshooters and sometimes malee hitters.

What I'm saying is, teamwork is the key for all of us to get what we want. No one should complain. If there is a problem in the party, kick them or leave it. Without teamwork what do we got left? People with their own agenda.

If you have a problem with the party, leave the party. Don't come here and complain about the party. You can discuss, but don't come and take your problems out on these forms.

[-Ryuki-]

Being the kind of guy I am, I'll skip what everything has written, and write my two cents.

Cooperate. Come a mutual agreement, or GTFO and find another party.

[Nukei]

Ranting won't change anything. [I've never met anybody who needed a force so much o.O]

[Genobee]

I don't rely on forces but if I'm frozen in a block of ice and getting pounded by barta,and you don't run over and heal me... I will kick you. Or if you don't use resta to take off shock or debuffs i will kick you.

[Swifty01]

This reminds me of just about every other MMO I've played. A healing class complaining about healing. Look, you're the only class that can heal, otherwise I'm stuck chugging mates for the entire mission. Heal me. I do my part by avoiding as much damage as I possibly can, but when I'm getting low, its a Forces job as the only class with resta to friggin heal me.

But to be honest, you shouldnt have to run across the room to heal someone. If they need it, they should run to you, but hopefully the group will all be together so the need to run around so much isnt there.

[GeoHolyhart]

If you stopped crying about it and kept it leveled from your first De Ragan run and up, you wouldn't need to be anywhere near them to heal them. This "Danger" BS is BS.


That's pretty much the deal. Just started leveling my Force class now though, after maxing Hunter. I can't heal from afar, so I just run in, but If I get hit also, oh well, I can take it at this level, till I level my Resta more.

I also agree with first post completely.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GeoHolyhart on 2006-11-17 21:26 ]</font>

[Sekani]

Since when did forces become heal bitches anyway? I don't recall CASTs in PSO ranting about forces not using Resta on them. Must be all these WoW/FFXI migrants used to crapping on priests/white mages all the time.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-17 22:04, Sekani wrote:
Since when did forces become heal bitches anyway? I don't recall CASTs in PSO ranting about forces not using Resta on them. Must be all these WoW/FFXI migrants used to crapping on priests/white mages all the time.



thats because if you ran out of diamtes you could just teleport back and grab more.

[Xbob]

On 2006-11-17 22:35, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-17 22:04, Sekani wrote:
Since when did forces become heal bitches anyway? I don't recall CASTs in PSO ranting about forces not using Resta on them. Must be all these WoW/FFXI migrants used to crapping on priests/white mages all the time.



thats because if you ran out of diamtes you could just teleport back and grab more.



You can still take a crystal and run to town and back. Just not AS convenient. Which is the point of course, the pipes made it all too easy. And CASTs didn't compalin on PSO because everyone except casts could heal so there was plenty to go around and meseta dropped like candy out of a pinata.

[BloodDragoon]

Not meseta that dropped like candy out of a pinata. It was generic armors that were found with 4 slots and sold for loads to the shop NPC's http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Zarbolord]

The game has been developped so that forces don't need to heal all the timelike before. Dual classes/expert classes are also done for that. So to manage to heal a bit yourself, but most of the time you have to cooperate to manage stuff, otherwise there's no fun to it.

[Gamemako]

See, this is the problem.

Hunters think forces are obligated to heal them.

To that, we forces say "Fuck off".

It costs us 20-30 PP to resta. We don't get EXP when we're sitting around keeping people alive. It takes about 100 full sticks worth of PP to get to level 11 resta.

As a simple protest, I as a force (until I get my force type to level 5) will not have resta. So when you ask for a heal and I respond with words that PSU will not display, you get the picture. I will not be your healbitch.


//EDIT: And damnit, we have ONE (ONE!? ONE!) heal spell among a total of around 30. We are NOT A HEALING CLASS. NOT. A. HEALING. CLASS. It's like going into WoW and complaining that your Wizards aren't healing you. Well, of course they're not healing you!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2006-11-17 23:11 ]</font>

[Zarbolord]

They have the mates, we have the force http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Genobee]

wow forces are premodonnas.

[BloodDragoon]

On 2006-11-17 23:01, Gamemako wrote:
See, this is the problem.

Hunters think forces are obligated to heal them.

To that, we forces say "Fuck off".

It costs us 20-30 PP to resta. We don't get EXP when we're sitting around keeping people alive. It takes about 100 full sticks worth of PP to get to level 11 resta.

As a simple protest, I as a force (until I get my force type to level 5) will not have resta. So when you ask for a heal and I respond with words that PSU will not display, you get the picture. I will not be your healbitch.


//EDIT: And damnit, we have ONE (ONE!? ONE!) heal spell among a total of around 30. We are NOT A HEALING CLASS. NOT. A. HEALING. CLASS. It's like going into WoW and complaining that your Wizards aren't healing you. Well, of course they're not healing you!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2006-11-17 23:11 ]</font>


Honestly if you have to cast resta more than 1 time per room on a regular basis your party sucks...

And if that wizard on WoW was the only class in that game with a healing spell then yes he would be the healer.

People focus too much on 1 side of these arguments and never see the full picture. Which is why these topics never cease to exist.

[Genobee]

Hey guys remeber one thing mates cost 3k to stock up on. Healing some one cost what? Um I dunno NOTHING!

[Zarbolord]

It costs PP, and doesn't damage the enemy. So it's balanced, we have to pay money for PP restores then...

[Genobee]

Boohoo mates are worth more. and any thing less then a trimate is use less past 35.

[Xbob]

Using Genobee's logic:

Boohoo my time costs more.

[SolRiver]

I believe the reason there are more cries for heal is because force resta range are now very limited, while most people can not anticipate the movement along with the size of the resta to use it effectively.

[DonRoyale]

To the original poster: Thanks, you've said what I've been trying to drill into these people's heads for the past hour.

For those who bitch about Forces not healing you enough: BE A FORCE, SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT, BECAUSE I BET YOU DON'T. TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WANT TO BE FUCKING TREATED.

Kthnxbai. GG losers.

[Bleemo]

Constant use of Resta and watching your group's HP levels allow your group to kill much faster, more effective and aggressively. Why you wouldn't want this as a Force is beyond me.

If you honestly feel you're not gaining EXP when you're worrying about healing, then use a Handgun/Wand combo. I do this. I can tag every mob that spawns before everything is killed, heal quickly, and easily switch off to another weapon to deal damage. It's a very simple concept.

However, I think the main argument would be: do not expect a Force to heal you. This does not mean the Force is not choosing to heal in general, but maybe there is something preventing him from healing you--I.E: too far away, out of PP, or he cannot get to you. If your HP is in the yellow, don't run around expecting a Force will heal you, or ask a Force to heal you. Use your mates. They are there for a reason. I personally hate seeing a guy sit at 10% of his HP without healing himself as if he's expecting me to heal him when I am too far away. If you don't have mates, buy them. Dimates can be found cheap; monomates can be transfered by starting new characters.

Forces are not heal bots. Healing certainly allows missions to go faster, but to expect a heal in every instance you could use one is over depending on a class that is near-half support. You have mates, use them. Stop complaining, and use them.

[BloodDragoon]

Sadly Bleemo I've seen people sit at 10% of their HP in a game that had no force expecting someone else to use a star atomizer on them... -.-

[Keiko_Seisha]

All I have to say at all of this is..

Screw the rules, I have Resta!

...

On a serious note, you run to me, I Resta you, you run away from me, I'll probably chase you down and Resta you anyways. That's right, I'm tagging YOU for xp, gimmie your xps!!

[Nietzsche]

if this whole issue seemed like a tenth of the problem in my groups as it was in these threads i might actually care

[Shinou]

On 2006-11-18 00:14, Keiko_Seisha wrote:
All I have to say at all of this is..

Screw the rules, I have Resta!

...

On a serious note, you run to me, I Resta you, you run away from me, I'll probably chase you down and Resta you anyways. That's right, I'm tagging YOU for xp, gimmie your xps!!



You never chase me down. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Keiko_Seisha]

You run too fast, with your short human legs. Duh..

Edit: Speaking of which, get on, I'm bored.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Keiko_Seisha on 2006-11-18 00:46 ]</font>

[Danyl]

While its not hard to hit circle button and left on the D-pad for full life, throwin down the heals reliably keeps your team aggressive. That means, as a whole, your party is kickin more ass.

And when you got a teammate in Nanoburst, their only source of healing is your resta. Its common knowledge you gotta keep your beasts afloat while they pound out the 400s.

So the reason healing is such a big deal is because 1) its easy to do, 2) you can heal multiple targets, and 3) its 1 less thing your team has to worry about.

Just played for about 4 hours on Moatoob today. A rank. Monsters spawn here in packs of 6 or more, sometimes with 3 bigguns. And the damage isnt the only danger out there. Status ailments pose a serious threat. You gotta have reverser ready. Getting mobbed while stunned is a pretty surefire death, as you can't use your mates. If you really want people to think you are a badass force, stay on top of those status ailments!

[BloodDragoon]

Worst thing I seen happen on Moatoob so far is 1 unlucky sob getting stuck between 3 spinning Bil De Bears... XD

[Xbob]

I'm not saying I don't heal, I did my first Online Moatoob run today and as usual I kicked all unholy ass with healing, no one even worried about death or status effects until the boss, then the other force died once, and as a force we are obligated to carry several scapes, so he was cool, then one of the hunters got caught up in a windblast while under the paralyzed effect FAR out of either of our range and died, level 41 with no scapes. No one cared too much, no big deal, but that S-Rank was so close. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Shinou]

On 2006-11-18 00:45, Keiko_Seisha wrote:
You run too fast, with your short human legs. Duh..

Edit: Speaking of which, get on, I'm bored.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Keiko_Seisha on 2006-11-18 00:46 ]</font>


I'm heading to bed. You can help me get my last level later today. And your healing is great Keiko!

[Kaloa]

I'm not of the mind that everybody who plays as a force should have to devote themselves to healing. I think everybody has the right to choose their own playing style. However, I myself quite enjoy taking on the supportive role and keeping my teammates alive and well.

I generally heal whenever my teammates health drops to 3/4, and I never let my group move onto the next room without full health. I probably come off a little obsessive about it at times, but it's so easy to get trapped behind a group of enemies and not be able to get to the other side to heal. The more HP my teammates have going in, the more hits they can take and the more time I have to make my way over to them and heal them before they die and get pissed at me.

The only time I generally have problems keeping people healed is during boss fights. My force can't take the hits the hunters can, so moving in close to heal them can be somewhat of a challenge. The people I play with regularly though seem to be well aware of this, and will often help me out by moving over to me when they want healing, or by healing themselves. I'll usually give my teammates all the mates I have on me before we encounter a boss, too, just to ensure that they'll be able to heal if I'm not around.

While the cost of resta may be somewhat high, I've rarely run out of pp when playing the supportive role. It's actually much more costly to be running around with rabarta or foie trying to kill everything than it is casting a tech once or twice to hit everything and then going into support mode. A decent, properly equipped team will not need to be healed more than once or twice per room (if at all). During times when nobody needs healing I can stand there and recharge my weapons. ^_^

[SoiFong]

Keiko_Seisha
Nice sig... but im the official original doll face.
(im teasing btw.. i see you are new.. had to edit this in here.)


Anyway about the OP .. I became a force for the sole reason it was needed when Yoruichi and I duo certain missions together. So i began Force with the mindset to heal. However if all i am doing is healing then i begin to fall behind fast. Some of thes monsters hit too fast, too hard and too often for me to be able to tag all of them, AND heal effectively.

Yoruichi dosent complain to me when I cant get to her and she has seen the risk of me getting one-shoted (darn you beast planet) to run to heal her. Yoru heals herself when need be. .. so yeah, dont expect the Force to heal, they will when they can. However if you are only looking for a healer, put in in your comment box so the ones who are interested can join (like those who want to level resta quickly), and the ones who are not can avoid the party.

thats my two cents.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SoiFong on 2006-11-18 05:16 ]</font>

[-Ryuki-]

She's not new. Maybe new to PSOW FORUMS, but not new. I've known her longer than any of you XD

[SoiFong]

Thats what i meant .. new to the forums... didnt want to set her off, or take it personal by my typical sassing.

[Mystil]

I imagine Garnet Moon has had bad experiences with forces...

Anyway, hunters and rangers must learn proper mate management with a force around. I see too many that will not use one unless thier are about to die. Forces aren't octopuses.

And it will become a big deal because buying a full stock of mono's di's and antimates(buying Trimates is crazy - better to acquire these as drops)will empty out a players pocket pretty quick..

[LocGaw]

My .02....
A Fo is not a heal-bot. It is not the sole responsibility of the Fo to maintain the whole PT... I can't count the number of times in the past couple days I have heard the words, " I don't have any of those, I feed them to my PM"...

If you refuse to bring Antimates/ Sol, Star( I understand you not having these), Moon Atomizers/ Scape Dolls/Photon Chargers, then you are poorly prepared for combat and are of no asset to the PT. Do not expect to be welcome...

However, the maitanance of PT health is a top priority for a Fo's PT. Being the only FO, it hurts you having to carry all the extra weight but it is nessecary. The sooner it is realized by DD Fos that there is no way to function as a good Fo without said techs(ie. resta/reverser) the better...

Kind of a catch 22... I guess it comes down to realizing what is a good PT and what is not....



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: LocGaw on 2006-11-18 06:27 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

You know, I've decided I get immense pleasure from going to Universe 1 and kicking out all the hunters who curse at me when I tell them I don't have resta. Then again, it also precludes me from joining teams, since they kick me when they figure out I don't have resta. Whatever. This is the problem with PSU: back in PSO you could have just about anybody with resta (not very effective resta, but resta nonetheless). Nobody spammed forces for "HEAL HEAL HLEA HELA HAEL>". But now I find that in order to enjoy my game I have to create the team -- and on another note, if you comment that you don't have resta, nobody joins. 80% of the population these days are hunters who think you should heal them. Not everyone is like this, but there are quite a few -- especially beast hunters with spears who run into a mob spamming dus daggas then get smacked around because dus daggas doesn't knock enemies down. I'm sorry, when you do something incredibly stupid like that, I wouldn't heal you even if I had resta.

[GeoHolyhart]

On 2006-11-18 10:36, Gamemako wrote:
You know, I've decided I get immense pleasure from going to Universe 1 and kicking out all the hunters who curse at me when I tell them I don't have resta. Then again, it also precludes me from joining teams, since they kick me when they figure out I don't have resta. Whatever. This is the problem with PSU: back in PSO you could have just about anybody with resta (not very effective resta, but resta nonetheless). Nobody spammed forces for "HEAL HEAL HLEA HELA HAEL>". But now I find that in order to enjoy my game I have to create the team -- and on another note, if you comment that you don't have resta, nobody joins. 80% of the population these days are hunters who think you should heal them. Not everyone is like this, but there are quite a few -- especially beast hunters with spears who run into a mob spamming dus daggas then get smacked around because dus daggas doesn't knock enemies down. I'm sorry, when you do something incredibly stupid like that, I wouldn't heal you even if I had resta.


You make a valid point, but that's extremely noobish on your end. You have several weapon slots. One of those weapon can have resta, even if you don't devote your self to healing. If you can save someone a few mates, why not? Just make sure to clarify you don't spam resta, you're a offensive Force. I bet you can join alot more parties this way.

[Gamemako]

On 2006-11-18 10:42, GeoHolyhart wrote:

You make a valid point, but that's extremely noobish on your end. You have several weapon slots. One of those weapon can have resta, even if you don't devote your self to healing. If you can save someone a few mates, why not? Just make sure to clarify you don't spam resta, you're a offensive Force. I bet you can join alot more parties this way.



It is in no way beneficial to me not to have Resta. However, I operate on prinicipal. I will not bow down and be your heal machine, so I don't have Resta. I can deal without -- there are things far worse than lacking Resta. Try making a J50 battle aco in RO without heal. That's where we separate the men from the boys. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[SoiFong]

You guys do realise that in the end you can only carry 36 photon arts (look up your profile and go to Photon arts and note the limit) and this includes TECHNICS? Some people want to save these slots for other spells... I dont see the hang up if a person chooses not to buy it. This will become more apparent when the special classes come out... Are you all going to cry and complain to THEM that they arent curing?

[Nukei]

Try making a J50 battle aco in RO without heal.

Anybody could do that, with friends that is >.0 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[MayLee]

People need to stop plunding into groups of enemies and getting mauled by them and expect US to go and fined you in plunge into the mob to save you.

[GeoHolyhart]

On 2006-11-18 10:53, SoiFong wrote:
You guys do realise that in the end you can only carry 36 photon arts (look up your profile and go to Photon arts and note the limit) and this includes TECHNICS? Some people want to save these slots for other spells... I dont see the hang up if a person chooses not to buy it. This will become more apparent when the special classes come out... Are you all going to cry and complain to THEM that they arent curing?


That's A LOT of different PAs you can use. Chances are most people won't ever fill them all, other then for fun.

[Gamemako]

Wartechers, guntechers, and fortetechers and fill 'em all up pretty easily, really. Fortefighters will never fill up their PA slots.

[Genobee]

But if your a guntecher and not carring support spells and healing spells you need to pick another class because the Guntecher is not a damage class. On the other hand, if your a ForteTecher it's ok because you are the Nuking Class. christ 30 techs and 30 bullets.... why would you wanna be a Guntecher..

[Muffin]

We are Forces, not Priests. It is not a Force's job to babysit you. If a Force wants to follow you around and spend their precious PP to keep healing you then you should consider yourself grateful, not expectant or angry when they don't.

You have mates and antimates to keep you healthy. Yes, it costs money, but so does expending PP. I don't mind healing since I wish everyone to be healthy and get the best rank possible, but if someone gets angry and demanding because they feel its my sworn duty to be their nurse then I just might let them die to teach them a healthy lesson:

Be self-reliant and take responsibility for your own actions, because its your fault the enemies are killing you. And no one else's. :>


Purun~~






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Muffin on 2006-11-18 12:10 ]</font>

[Xbob]

On 2006-11-18 10:53, SoiFong wrote:
You guys do realise that in the end you can only carry 36 photon arts (look up your profile and go to Photon arts and note the limit) and this includes TECHNICS? Some people want to save these slots for other spells... I dont see the hang up if a person chooses not to buy it. This will become more apparent when the special classes come out... Are you all going to cry and complain to THEM that they arent curing?



You don't have to save slots. They can be overwritten.

Also, I always carry 3 full healing staves with me at all times, fully charged with a full stack of photon charges. 2 heal staves go into pallete and one into inventory, in case for any reason the other two cannot be quickly refilled. I'm not a heal bot, I'm a priveledge to my team.

[Gamemako]

On 2006-11-18 11:51, Genobee wrote:
But if your a guntecher and not carring support spells and healing spells you need to pick another class because the Guntecher is not a damage class. On the other hand, if your a ForteTecher it's ok because you are the Nuking Class. christ 30 techs and 30 bullets.... why would you wanna be a Guntecher..



Can somebody show me where Fortetechers have level 30 bullets? This is most ludicrous. Guntechers have the level 30 bullets for bows and fans/cards. There is no reason for Fortetechers to have two level 30s as well as S-ranks and unique abilities. Only class who gets two level 30s is the protranser, who doesn't get any unique weapons or any S-rank weapons at all.

[Spellbinder]

Can somebody show me where Fortetechers have level 30 bullets? This is most ludicrous. Guntechers have the level 30 bullets for bows and fans/cards. There is no reason for Fortetechers to have two level 30s as well as S-ranks and unique abilities. Only class who gets two level 30s is the protranser, who doesn't get any unique weapons or any S-rank weapons at all.


You can see it in my guide here:

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=122405&forum=22&93

And that info was taken from the thread for advanced jobs here:

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=121267&forum=22&207

Also, in regards to this whole healing a big deal stuff, I'll just use an excerpt from my guide that gives my opinion on Forces.

"A Force is the traditional "glass cannon" of Phantasy Star Universe. They have very low health and physical defense, but counter this by having a very impressive offense and, in the case of Phantasy Star Unverse, defense given to them through the use of a large assortment of Technics.

First and foremost, I will tell you this now so this will not be a shock to you later. High level Hunters are very powerful, in someways more powerful than Forces can be directly. But you shouldn't let this distract you, or make you grow envious of what they do. Why shouldn't this upset you? Well, let me try to explain.

Although Technics don't always seem to be as powerful as the attacks of Hunters in a direct comparsion, you have to put it into perspective. Photon Arts for Hunters were designed to deal damage, and that's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Technics, however have a little more edge to them. So let's say a Hunter uses a Photon Art that deals a few hundred damage per hit to a group of enemies, and he's able to rack up a fair bit of damage.

You will be using Technics that deal several hundred points of damage per cast and possibly burn enemies, for added damage over time. You may shock enemies, leaving them unable to fight back against the team making everyone's life a little easier. Enemies may find themselves silenced, and unable to use those nasty attacks everyone hates. Or they may be left frozen, giving teammates the chance to chip in a few extra hits without retaliation.

An excellent example of this would be S Rank Linear Line. When this mission was first released, an unprepared group would simply get pummeled by megid, and lots of it. If everyone wasn't packing scape dolls, there would be no chance of completing this mission with S Rank. Not long after, however, people discovered something very interesting that changed the way people looked at this mission. The megid enemies used was considered a physical attack, so if they were shocked they couldn't megid.

So, enter a team with three Forces, and an assortment of Hunters and Rangers. The team would step into a room, the Forces would let rip with Zonde, and the rest was history. Enemies were being shocked left and right, unable to megid, and unable to fight back period. Put simply, Forces made the mission a breeze, and I think knowing your character could make that possible is just as important as any amount of insane damage other characters may or may not dish out.

So yes, while they are not always as powerful as Hunters, depending on what you're fighting. Forces can dish out a very respectable amount of damage, and inflict valuable status effects on enemies to boot. Something Hunters can't boast, although Rangers excel at status effects moreso than Forces.

Even though Forces have a very large array of damage dealing Technics, they should never forget their support Technics. Out of the 36 Technics available in total, 12 of them are designed for support, so they have to be their for a reason. No one is saying to be a slave to the team, but just remember that as a Force you're capable of doing things the rest of your team can't without spending alot of money on items from the shop.

You have the ability to heal them, cure their status ailments, and make everyone stronger in every aspect without having to use any items. So be mindful of your team's health. You don't have to constantly spam, but if you see a teammate taking a beating, help them out with a resta. Or if you see one of the Hunters is shocked, try and use Reverser so they can keep fighting the good fight. There will be times when it's better to think of the strength of the team in its entirety rather than just the strength of an individual.

While on the subject of strength, we all know Forces can dish out alot of damage directly against enemies, but through support, you'll find dishing out damage directly isn't the only way to get the job done. Consider the stat enhancing Technics. You're capable of increasing the teams, physical strength, defense, evasion, accuracy, magic defense, and magic offense. Not only that, but you can weaken enemies, lowering their strength, defense, and evasion.

So, when your team is ripping through a mission doing tons of damage, just remember you helped make that possible, by giving them the strength they needed to rip through so easily. The Force is a character that brings a combonation of offense, defense, and support to a team unlike most types in Phantasy Star Universe. Some may think little of them, and others will think they're the God's gift to gaming. But just remeber that a Force is about having fun with magic. With such a large arsenal of Technics for offense and defense, you won't be disappointed in the path you've taken."

So ya, that's the way I see it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-18 12:16, Gamemako wrote:

On 2006-11-18 11:51, Genobee wrote:
But if your a guntecher and not carring support spells and healing spells you need to pick another class because the Guntecher is not a damage class. On the other hand, if your a ForteTecher it's ok because you are the Nuking Class. christ 30 techs and 30 bullets.... why would you wanna be a Guntecher..



Can somebody show me where Fortetechers have level 30 bullets? This is most ludicrous. Guntechers have the level 30 bullets for bows and fans/cards. There is no reason for Fortetechers to have two level 30s as well as S-ranks and unique abilities. Only class who gets two level 30s is the protranser, who doesn't get any unique weapons or any S-rank weapons at all.



yea it's ridiculous huh.... fuck guntechers for real

And I'm pissed that forte fighters can't use double sabers, thats realy stupid.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-18 12:39 ]</font>

[Xbob]

Fortetechers have level TEN bullets.

[Flwl3ssCowboy]

On 2006-11-17 19:18, Ras wrote:
You can use items when you're knocked down now - it's fixed. Try it!


My God, really? I kept having that problem pre-update @ dragon when i was @ a lower level -_-

[Kalier]

On 2006-11-18 12:40, Xbob wrote:
Fortetechers have level TEN bullets.



originally PSUPedia listed them as having level 30 bullets.

[Keiko_Seisha]

Keiko_Seisha
Seisha Clan Leader


Joined: Dec 11, 2005
Posts: 13
Status: Online
Mood: Meh.

I just have a low amount of posts, but as you can see, I joined almost a year ago. (Yeah, I'm the lurker type) So, I'm not really new.

And yeah, fortetechers have been fixed to PA 1, Bullet 10, Tech 30.

Edit: Oops, hit an extra 0.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Keiko_Seisha on 2006-11-18 12:55 ]</font>

[Rainey]

On 2006-11-18 12:40, Xbob wrote:
Fortetechers have level TEN bullets.



It's lvl 30 according to the Japanese PSU Wiki, but 10 on the US PSU Wiki. Which am I inclined to believe? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I think the JP one should be correct since they already have access to the adv jobs. Anyone playing JP PSU care to confirm? I don't see anything wrong with lvl 30 bullets since Fortetechers use Cards (which belongs to the Bullet criteria)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rainey on 2006-11-18 12:57 ]</font>

[Xbob]

Uhh, I already know this fact. I don't need any damn pedia to tell me otherwise. It's the same as normal Force. 10 bullets, 1 skill, but 30 Techs.

[WarfieldCross]

I don't agree with the idea "If your a force your job is to heal!" Everyone has their own playing style and finding ppl you play well with is essential to enjoying this game.

Some friendly advice to Hunters/Rangers who rely on Forces, learn to ease up on the GUNG-HO, step back and use a mate.

And for Forces that get kicked out because their not healing/babysitting, roll with the punches. You'll find ppl that appreciate what you do, whether it's blowing stuff up or healing.

As for me, I plan on being a Human/Wartecher all the way. My bro Haven plays as a Beast/Hunter. Our friend Tamberine uses a Newman/Guntecher. This setup allows Haven to go all out attack, Tam to shoot from the sidelines or heal, and me to melee or heal. It's all about teamwork and that's why we're effective.

[TheTasuke]

If you want the ranting to stop, why the fuck would you make another topic about it? Idiots...

[SoiFong]

On 2006-11-18 12:55, Keiko_Seisha wrote:
Keiko_Seisha
Seisha Clan Leader


Joined: Dec 11, 2005
Posts: 13
Status: Online
Mood: Meh.

I just have a low amount of posts, but as you can see, I joined almost a year ago. (Yeah, I'm the lurker type) So, I'm not really new.

And yeah, fortetechers have been fixed to PA 1, Bullet 10, Tech 30.

Edit: Oops, hit an extra 0.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Keiko_Seisha on 2006-11-18 12:55 ]</font>


I see http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif well prepared to be sassed alot ... I dont mean nothing by it. Its a "hello" kinda thing with me. Pleasure meeting ya! Hope to see you around alot more ... any fan of Soi Fong's cant be bad at all!

[Cause_I_Own_U]

A rank missions only need forces for healing, Hunters are the damage dealers, forces are the heal biches, the perfect setup for A - S rank missions is 1 ranger 3 hunters and two heal biches, one heal bich to keep healing if one dies

Dont like it? reroll or havve fun geting booted out of parties, because you will not get parties for S rank missions if you dont heal at all times


In S rank missions, each hit from a boss can 1 shot a force and bring hunters down to 20% health

No amount of trimates will get you through those missions, so you need to heal forces, or no groups for you (and S rank will have the best rares and loot)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-11-18 13:25 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

With an attitude like that, it's a miracle you've ever gotten an S-rank on anything.

[littleman2347]

i love it how people complain about how PSU didnt come out soon enuff and now there are complaining so much about it and what wrong with it i think its kinda funny. just be cool with what you have

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-11-18 13:42, Gamemako wrote:
With an attitude like that, it's a miracle you've ever gotten an S-rank on anything.



"cause I own u " may come off as an arrogant jerk, but its true. I've actually solo'd very few and far between A rank missions (not counting bosses). So lack of healing isn't that bad considering items and good out going damage from a decent team. But S rank is heartless and cruel, if you watched the JP videos of the people who post in this forum the monsters hit hard...really hard. Which makes me think Fortechers shouldn't be main healers...wartechers should with thier higher HP and decent survivability.

[Gamemako]

Wartechers are the most survivable class in the game, so yes, you do have a viable suggestion. However, you have two BIG problems:

1. You're relying on someone else for your survival.

2. You're not working as a team (you're acting as an individual with automatic potion ability).

Any one is asking for death. Both is (used for the utmost of emphasis) fucking idiotic and you deserve to lose (and you will).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2006-11-18 13:57 ]</font>

[BloodDragoon]

One final note that keeps bugging me when these topics come up are people using the "recharging my PP costs too much" type arguments. When you hit the point that the force needs to focus a bit more on a support role is when you hit A rank missions, or some B rank missions on Neudaiz and Moatoob. When you hit these ranks you pretty much use Dimates and Trimates exclusively. I seriously doubt recharging every rod and wand you own can compare to a full stack of Dimates or Trimates. For the most part the Force should only need to resta between spawn waves and in an emergency (emergency = hunter frozen/paralyzed therefore unable to use items). Mates in most cases are for the times you get hammered mid wave. (Most cases I party with a Force I usually end up with ones that truely take a healer role and cast resta much more often than this.)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BloodDragoon on 2006-11-18 14:19 ]</font>

[Ogni-XR21]

I'm happy if I'm the only force in a game so I can take care of "my party". If it's 2 forces in a game I always try to be the better healer/reverser. It's better in PSU, but in PSO 2 forces ruined a game for me...

I can't wait until jellen/zalure are released so I won't have to use attack spells any more to get exp.

Btw. I was so happy when I found out that only forces can heal now! ^_^

[Fuss]

My resta is levle 18 right now and its not a noticibly bigger area of effect than when it was at level one. I'm sure its slightly bigger but as far as I can tell, anyone saying that people without large resta range need to level it higher are probably not FO's.

I intended to be a healing FO when I started PSU, but after playing with Hunters, I gotta admit myself not wanting to keep them alive. I'm just being honest. RA and FO hardly ever take damage but HU seem to need constant babysitting. Its hard for me to not think "Gee if I was doing this solo or with just the RA, everything would be going a lot smoother and quicker"

Just being honest that's all... I still heal them... But I secretly don't want to.

[Knownoes]

On 2006-11-18 11:11, MayLee wrote:
People need to stop plunding into groups of enemies and getting mauled by them and expect US to go and fined you in plunge into the mob to save you.



I don't know why people complain about doing this. It's what I love about being a force, or playing the medic role in any number of first person shooters. You basicly own their ass after that, because if it wasn't for you they'd be a greasy smear in the dirt.

Granted, people who're idiots that don't use mates when needed should probably be left to die a couple of times just to drive the fact home that you aren't here for their personal convenience. But if you refuse to heal at all then maybe you're playing the wrong class.

[Spellbinder]

On 2006-11-18 12:57, Xbob wrote:
Uhh, I already know this fact. I don't need any damn pedia to tell me otherwise. It's the same as normal Force. 10 bullets, 1 skill, but 30 Techs.



I'd have to disagree, seeing as my Fortecher just hit level 15 with the Ice Bullet for her bow.

[Garnet_Moon]

You've got Resta, use it or you're a useless appendage waiting to be amputated.

The whole Meseta v. PP thing is irrelevant. You can recharge all your weapons from just one or two meseta drops off of mobs. The quest reward and items you get are your income. Same for us Hunters, and Rangers. Stop saying your PP is some wonderful thing becasue in all honesty, it's nothing special. Hunters and Ranger get it too. We have the same recharge cost as you; if not more, because of how much more active we are than Forces. Heal when it is needed, or GTFO my party.

Simple as that. :

[Teneris]

On 2006-11-18 00:53, BloodDragoon wrote:
Worst thing I seen happen on Moatoob so far is 1 unlucky sob getting stuck between 3 spinning Bil De Bears... XD



Oh god, something like that happened to me yesterday and I forgot to get a scape doll before hand. >< And of course I had some asshole in my party that yelled at me until I left. :E

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-18 16:49, Teneris wrote:

On 2006-11-18 00:53, BloodDragoon wrote:
Worst thing I seen happen on Moatoob so far is 1 unlucky sob getting stuck between 3 spinning Bil De Bears... XD



Oh god, something like that happened to me yesterday and I forgot to get a scape doll before hand. >< And of course I had some asshole in my party that yelled at me until I left. :E


Happened to me while I was Nanoblasted earlier today. First time my HP has ever gone from full to near zero while in NB. I officially eat my "I never die when I NB so defense is useless" statement. HOWEVER, that was a careless mistake and won't happen again. Promise. Honest to god. I swear on my Grandmothers Urn. >.>;;

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-18 16:52 ]</font>

[Genobee]

I love how the smae people will say play how you like, but then bitch about team work?

[BloodDragoon]

On 2006-11-18 16:51, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-18 16:49, Teneris wrote:

On 2006-11-18 00:53, BloodDragoon wrote:
Worst thing I seen happen on Moatoob so far is 1 unlucky sob getting stuck between 3 spinning Bil De Bears... XD



Oh god, something like that happened to me yesterday and I forgot to get a scape doll before hand. >< And of course I had some asshole in my party that yelled at me until I left. :E


Happened to me while I was Nanoblasted earlier today. First time my HP has ever gone from full to near zero while in NB. I officially eat my "I never die when I NB so defense is useless" statement. HOWEVER, that was a careless mistake and won't happen again. Promise. Honest to god. I swear on my Grandmothers Urn. >.>;;

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-18 16:52 ]</font>


Should also note Nanoblast is not the answer to 3 elite jabras >.>

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-18 17:22, BloodDragoon wrote:

On 2006-11-18 16:51, Garnet_Moon wrote:

On 2006-11-18 16:49, Teneris wrote:

On 2006-11-18 00:53, BloodDragoon wrote:
Worst thing I seen happen on Moatoob so far is 1 unlucky sob getting stuck between 3 spinning Bil De Bears... XD



Oh god, something like that happened to me yesterday and I forgot to get a scape doll before hand. >< And of course I had some asshole in my party that yelled at me until I left. :E


Happened to me while I was Nanoblasted earlier today. First time my HP has ever gone from full to near zero while in NB. I officially eat my "I never die when I NB so defense is useless" statement. HOWEVER, that was a careless mistake and won't happen again. Promise. Honest to god. I swear on my Grandmothers Urn. >.>;;

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-18 16:52 ]</font>


Should also note Nanoblast is not the answer to 3 elite jabras >.>


Any brave, rich souls wanna switch to Invulnerability Blast and test it against Jabras? I like my Meseta so I don't wanna. >.>

[Knightsword]

Regardless of class its everyones duty to look after each other, which means Forces have resta/reverser and to use it and Hunters and Rangers to carry sols, stars, and mates and to use them and everyone should have a few scape dolls. And if costs are a concern PP recharging for forces is still cheaper then items, and on the other side you can restock items for free after a few LL C runs which would take what 20 minutes of spare time such as synthing.

[-Ryuki-]

I should remake myself into a FO, and do what everyone would want to boot me for not doing.

Running around, not nuking or healing =D

I'm kidding. But, I might remake, and I MIGHT play a FO. Chances are slim on the FO part.

[BloodDragoon]

Is Invulnerability the blue one? If so, I know a few beasts that use this one. I haven't seen them use it on a Jabra yet but I have seen them die from other things while it was active.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-18 17:34, BloodDragoon wrote:
Is Invulnerability the blue one? If so, I know a few beasts that use this one. I haven't seen them use it on a Jabra yet but I have seen them die from other things while it was active.


I think Blue is defense, yellow is god mode, and dunno what speed is.

I think. My memory is as terrible as my grandmothers. God bless her soul. Friggin' alzheimers runs in the family. >.>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-18 17:36 ]</font>

[BloodDragoon]

Bleh maybe I'll just lvl my beast and figure it out... >.> I have about 200K to blow...

[Blu_Swade]

all this crap just makes you wish they'd pull like Fire Emblem and give you EXP for healing people. ^__^

[Nukei]

I usually just tag every monster (or most @.@, I can't keep track of the monsters if they leave my screen)

Then just wait in standby to recharge my PP.

If someone is 1/2 hp I heal them out of boredness.

[Mystil]

Ok now I'm running into forces who don't heal enough. Between monos and di's if I use more than 20...there's a problem. And yea I mean 10 monos and 10 di's. When I run out I leave the party. Melee is useless without mates and no point leaving your life in the hands of one who is'nt that concerned about it.