Wartechers and healing

[BigKevSexyMan]

If I go wartecher are people gonna bit...complain at me about not healing them and blame their deaths and crappy skills on me?

[Xbob]

Only after they finish pitying you for being a wartecher.

[EphekZ]

You should be healing anyways ¬_¬

[Kent]

...Pity? He said Wartecher; no idea where the pity part comes in.

Anyway, if you're any part Force, and people are near you and hurt significantly, it's part of your job to at least try and heal them.

It shouldn't be a problem, though. With Wartecher, you'll have to get used to navigating the entire weapon palette quickly, so switching to your recovery stick in the heat of combat, won't be a problem.

[EphekZ]

The point of a wartecher is to be a supporting Hunter.

[-Shimarisu-]

The point of a Wartecher, is to be a beast owning shit up with support and dark techs.

[BigKevSexyMan]

Of course I'm gonna try and heal when I see the opportunity, but are people gonna expect me to just sit around with my wand out healing them? Am I gonna get blamed when some noob across the room dies?

[SoiFong]

See this is what I was waiting for ... now this I can get fired up about! ::evil grin::
I want to be a Wartecher (im human) and tho I have Resta and Reverser in my Arsenal already... I am not

repeat: a m n o t ...*pause* Going to be a cure bot.

war techer is a DD (forgive me for using this term so soon). I am going to be concerend with weapon photon arts and dark magics. If you want me to hang back and just heal you; you have got another thing coming.. Forces and Foretechers are better suited for that job.. and they are already going to be in a bad mood when people spam them for cures, dont think for one second Wartechers are gonna put up with it as well.

As for the OP: Yeah its gonna happen, you just got to fight the stigma that any tech using class will have to fight



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SoiFong on 2006-11-19 11:54 ]</font>

[Bleemo]

Leave healing to the Fortetechers.

If you need to heal yourself, or spot someone with unusually low HP that has been sitting there for a few seconds, then switch to your rod and toss a heal.

Your heals should be simply backup heals. However, if your group doesn't have a Force, it would be wise to take up the position as group healer. It's of course up to you, and they shouldn't rely on your heals(As has been discussed over and over again), but when there is a Resta to be tossed around, missions go much faster.

[Zarbolord]

Leave the healing to the Guntechers like me, light mage, light arrows, freezing duals, that's my role http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[Kupi]

I invoke the Curse of the Healer. "Any class that can heal competently will be expected to do so."

As a Wartecher, you're more Force than Hunter. You are one of three expert types in the game that can use Technics, and of those, you're one of two that can do so well. This means that you are among the rare few who is capable of generating healing for the entire party at low cost (respectively speaking). Therefore, regardless of any other abilities you may have (attack technics or melee skills), you will be expected to heal-- because you can. It's the same with Shamans, Druids, and Paladins in WoW, Monks in Guild Wars, and White Mages in FFXI. Do what you will, there's nothing stopping you, but your greatest contributions to the party are your healing and buffing spells. Don't expect to be well-received among PUGs if you ignore them.

[Randomness]

Wartecher=HUnewearl. You can heal, do it. But if a Fortecher is around, they should be taking point on that. Honestly, a Wartecher shouldn't need more than Resta, Reverser, Shifta, Deband (Dont remember new names for last two) to be good.

[SoiFong]

On 2006-11-19 12:10, Kupi wrote:
I invoke the Curse of the Healer. "Any class that can heal competently will be expected to do so."

As a Wartecher, you're more Force than Hunter. You are one of three expert types in the game that can use Technics, and of those, you're one of two that can do so well. This means that you are among the rare few who is capable of generating healing for the entire party at low cost (respectively speaking). Therefore, regardless of any other abilities you may have (attack technics or melee skills), you will be expected to heal-- because you can. It's the same with Shamans, Druids, and Paladins in WoW, Monks in Guild Wars, and White Mages in FFXI. Do what you will, there's nothing stopping you, but your greatest contributions to the party are your healing and buffing spells. Don't expect to be well-received among PUGs if you ignore them.



Actually Wartecher 20 skill, 10 bullet, 20 tech.
Only force items we have access to are wands and cards (actually cards are not force weapons per-se, they are ranged) so I actually believe we are more fighter than force.. In fact "we" are rather balanced.. but thats besides the point.

As for healing being my greatest contribution? Are you going to go so far as to say being a damage dealer isnt a contribution? Yes .. if we have resta, and someone is in danger, and I can help i will. When the appropriate buffs and debuffs come out I will be using those also..

However I dont want anyone griping to me when i was mid-dagger swing that I didnt heal them fast enough.
Especialy if they are carrying meds on them.. then they LET themselves die in my opinion.

And you know what? If that means I can't get into random parties with this kind of attitude then so be it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SoiFong on 2006-11-19 12:28 ]</font>

[Arieta]

Nothing wrong with that Soi. Even with forces in my groups I still heal myself when I have to. I mean if I'm sitting at 300 hp out of 1.3k, I'm not going to run around yelling heal me, I'm going to pop a trimate. And Animates are very helpful.

[Pandatron]

If you have the ability to heal and people notice you have the ability to heal people are probably going to ask you to heal. However if you have the ability to heal and people don't notice you have the ability to heal people are probably not going to ask you to heal. Pretty straight forward. I mean if you never pull out a cane mid mission who's the wiser, then again you neglected your spell lvls so there's a draw back x.x

[Ryoki]

I support your wartecher idea. I would heal people, but I wouldn't hurry to do it. It reminds me of the PSO days, when a hunter's best friend was his resta.

________
HONEY OIL (http://trichomes.org/hashish/honey-oil)

[Gamemako]

On 2006-11-19 12:25, SoiFong wrote:

Actually Wartecher 20 skill, 10 bullet, 20 tech.
Only force items we have access to are wands and cards (actually cards are not force weapons per-se, they are ranged) so I actually believe we are more fighter than force..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SoiFong on 2006-11-19 12:28 ]</font>


We get bows as well. <3

But yeah, a wartecher is primarily a versatile damage-dealer. However, he does have the advantage of popping out a heal right in the thick of things when the battle gets a bit hairy (and the dus daggas spammers get their faces pounded in). Like a HUnewearl, a wartecher is first and foremost a warrior and a secondary healer/caster. Buffs/debuffs are usually best left to the fortetecher for the greater effect (I wonder if debuffs will allow forces to level on monsters they've debuffed? Anybody have access to such information?). A guntecher can also be a secondary healer -- resta doesn't need 30 levels to be effective, it just needs to add HP.

[SoiFong]

On 2006-11-19 13:00, Gamemako wrote:

On 2006-11-19 12:25, SoiFong wrote:

Actually Wartecher 20 skill, 10 bullet, 20 tech.
Only force items we have access to are wands and cards (actually cards are not force weapons per-se, they are ranged) so I actually believe we are more fighter than force..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SoiFong on 2006-11-19 12:28 ]</font>


We get bows as well. <3

But yeah, a wartecher is primarily a versatile damage-dealer. However, he does have the advantage of popping out a heal right in the thick of things when the battle gets a bit hairy (and the dus daggas spammers get their faces pounded in). Like a HUnewearl, a wartecher is first and foremost a warrior and a secondary healer/caster. Buffs/debuffs are usually best left to the fortetecher for the greater effect (I wonder if debuffs will allow forces to level on monsters they've debuffed? Anybody have access to such information?). A guntecher can also be a secondary healer -- resta doesn't need 30 levels to be effective, it just needs to add HP.



Oh wow.. I went to look you ARE right .. we do get bows! I totaly missed that.. I have got to get to work on my bow arts ASAP... ::grin:: wow that just put a smile on my face cause I really really like bows..

Heck Wartecher uses all of my favorite weapons period.. one of the reasons Im so passionate about obtaining this job.

[Randomness]

Is ANY class better rounded than Wartecher?

[Kupi]

On 2006-11-19 12:25, SoiFong wrote:

On 2006-11-19 12:10, Kupi wrote:
I invoke the Curse of the Healer. "Any class that can heal competently will be expected to do so."

As a Wartecher, you're more Force than Hunter. You are one of three expert types in the game that can use Technics, and of those, you're one of two that can do so well. This means that you are among the rare few who is capable of generating healing for the entire party at low cost (respectively speaking). Therefore, regardless of any other abilities you may have (attack technics or melee skills), you will be expected to heal-- because you can. It's the same with Shamans, Druids, and Paladins in WoW, Monks in Guild Wars, and White Mages in FFXI. Do what you will, there's nothing stopping you, but your greatest contributions to the party are your healing and buffing spells. Don't expect to be well-received among PUGs if you ignore them.



Actually Wartecher 20 skill, 10 bullet, 20 tech.
Only force items we have access to are wands and cards (actually cards are not force weapons per-se, they are ranged) so I actually believe we are more fighter than force.. In fact "we" are rather balanced.. but thats besides the point.

As for healing being my greatest contribution? Are you going to go so far as to say being a damage dealer isnt a contribution? Yes .. if we have resta, and someone is in danger, and I can help i will. When the appropriate buffs and debuffs come out I will be using those also..

However I dont want anyone griping to me when i was mid-dagger swing that I didnt heal them fast enough.
Especialy if they are carrying meds on them.. then they LET themselves die in my opinion.

And you know what? If that means I can't get into random parties with this kind of attitude then so be it.


I never said that your only contribution was to heal, nor did I say that this is necessarily my own opinion on what a Wartecher is capable of. I only said that that is what will be expected of them by other players.

As a knee-jerk defense of my statement that Wartechers are more Force than Hunter, consider the CLevel requirements for the Type: 5 Force, 3 Hunter. The PA level caps might be equal, but the type requirements certainly seem to lean toward the Force side. You may be limited to "only" Wands, then again, you've also only got S-Rank Daggers and Twin Daggers. Figunners, the other Hunter hybrid class, get five different S-Rank weapon types compared to the Wartechers two. Wartechers are not as much Hunters as their fellow hybrid, which leads me to believe that they're more Force than Hunter, regardless of the fact that they cap at A-rank Wands.

Of course, that's all just a bunch of jargonese and speculation. It's far more important to consider the actual effect of support techs on the party as opposed to your meleeing abilities. I apologize, but I don't have any real numbers to give you right now; all I have is anecdotes. In Story Mode, which I admit is not necessarily a model for online mode, I played the game as a Hunter. When I had Maya's Agtal in effect, I was doing about 20 extra damage per normal strike (late in the game; around level 50). That Tech lasted for about two to three minutes. Consider how many attacks a Hunter makes in that amount of time. That adds up to an incredible amount of damage, especially when you consider that these techs can affect several Hunters at once. A Wartecher is simply not going to add that much damage to the party's total DPS (to use that measure) by swinging his Twin Daggers around, especially when you consider that he could increase his own damage output by using the support techs!

Naturally, this leads to the conclusion that a Wartecher could be better served by using Megistal, but I believe that, in practice, it will be far more efficient simply to use Agtal and Defbal on your entire party, which increases everyone's output and durability, rather than just your own, at no cost to your own health.

On the issue of healing, healing is quite simply the most broken ability in every RPG ever designed. It allows you extend units that would otherwise be removed from combat far beyond their normal HP total. With healing, someone who would normally last only a few hits can take fifty. In PSU, a well-timed heal can save you 400-1000 Meseta, depending what the mission is. I understand that nobody's saying they're going to refuse to heal, but I don't think many people realize just what a powerful ability it is.

I'm not even saying that you shouldn't melee. Presumably, that's the entire reason why you'd play a Wartecher. All I'm saying is that an economic analysis of a Wartecher's abilities (which I am, as I said, unable to provide) will show that the party becomes far more effective when they focus their abilities on supporting their allies (Agtal, Defbal, Resta) rather than trying to become more effective on their own (Megistal/Megiverse combo). You can't always be in a support role-- sometimes all the buffs will be up, the enemies will be debuffed, and everyone will be healthy. In that situation, you go ahead and attack-- odds are, you're close to the enemies anyhow, since the debuffs are short-range. Then you switch to your daggers or your spear and go to town. In that same situation, a Fortecher will start blowing stuff up. That's because their priorities are the same-- establish support first, then do supplimentary damage. It's the supplimentary damage that differs, because they're both Forces at heart.

And the role of the Force really hasn't changed since V1. Early on, they might be offensive casters, but in the end, they wind up being supporters. That's the Curse of the Healer.

(And hey, if you're in a party that knows you and your strategy and is cool with it-- say they've got a Fortecher handling support already-- then hey, go to town with whatever works. All I'm talking about is what Wartechers are going to be *expected* to do in PUGs, since that's what's most efficient. Your milage may vary.)

(P.S. By the Holy Light, this turned into an essay. Thank you for reading this far.)

[SoiFong]

Kupi

Im not going to go so far as hit the /quote button and peel apart your post ... So I am going to say this ... ::grin::
That was very well explained and I see we are in like opinon on the matter. As for you writing an essay, no shame in it as long as it helped get things off your chest and drove home a point. ::pat on the back:: thanks for taking the time to do so.


(We just wont agree on the wartecher is more force vs hunter thing ... but thats okay ... not a big deal to me.. lol)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SoiFong on 2006-11-19 13:20 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

On 2006-11-19 13:11, Kupi wrote:Your milage may vary.

QFT.

[Bleemo]

On 2006-11-19 13:17, SoiFong wrote:
Kupi
(We just wont agree on the wartecher is more force vs hunter thing ... but thats okay ... not a big deal to me.. lol)

Well, it really is more of a Force.

Lv5 Force requirement, Lv20 Techs, S-rank in Daggers(Forces can use Twin Daggers), can use Bows, gets more of a bonus in MST stat than ATP.

Kupi's "essay"(I'd rather call a well written opinion) made the simple point: if you can support, your group's overall performance will increase dramatically over your own if you take advantage of that support ability.

You can run around worrying about your own performance all that you want, but I can guarantee if you start worrying about your group, you will see missions flying by dramatically faster. This includes being a "healbot". There isn't any shame in constantly healing; it makes things go much faster, and better chances at S ranks in the end.

[Gamemako]

MST is the defensive stat. You want TP, which has less of a bump (94% at wartecher 10) than ATP (100% at wartecher 10). And on the defensive side, DFP is bumped higher than MST (120% versus 110%). You made his point for him.

[Kent]

Wartecher is easily the most versatile class in the game. Its strength happens to be its ability to use basically any form of attacking, supporting, etc. Much like the HUnewearl/FOmar of PSO games, the class was designed to do whatever the situation calls for.

That's what you should be doing. Even if it involves shoving your Resta stick in someone's ear. Versatility. :/

[Zarbolord]

On 2006-11-19 23:24, Kent wrote:
Wartecher is easily the most versatile class in the game. Its strength happens to be its ability to use basically any form of attacking, supporting, etc. Much like the HUnewearl/FOmar of PSO games, the class was designed to do whatever the situation calls for.

That's what you should be doing. Even if it involves shoving your Resta stick in someone's ear. Versatility. :/



quoted for pure truth.

[Bleemo]

On 2006-11-19 22:27, Gamemako wrote:
MST is the defensive stat. You want TP, which has less of a bump (94% at wartecher 10) than ATP (100% at wartecher 10). And on the defensive side, DFP is bumped higher than MST (120% versus 110%). You made his point for him.


Lol. You're correct, TP would be in more value than MST. I believe the stat I was indeed looking for was TP. Wartechers do have high DFP, but that doesn't mean they were meant to be primarily melee, it simply adds to the versatility of the class, as they intended. If they gave them melee properties but gave them the DFP of a Force, it wouldn't be worth it to melee at all. Another good thing to add would be that their ATP is a good 20% lower than the other melee oriented classes at max job level.

Oh, and if you read stats correctly, I didn't make his point for him. Read over the stats again. Wartecher has the second highest TP count of the Expert Jobs, just under Fortetecher, and if I might add, Wartecher has TP way above that of any other class aside from Fortetecher. Wartecher even has over double the amount of TP than Guntecher.

Wartecher is primarily a Force.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-11-19 23:58 ]</font>

[Garnet_Moon]

Use all your gimmics and shine brighter than the gimps who only rely on one aspect of their job.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-20 00:17 ]</font>

[Miyoko]

On 2006-11-17 19:29, BigKevSexyMan wrote:
If I go wartecher are people gonna bit...complain at me about not healing them and blame their deaths and crappy skills on me?

It doesn't mattaer what race/gender/class you are, people will -always- blame you for their mistakes ;p

[Kent]

If they're stunned, shocked, or otherwise disabled in such a fashion, Resta first if their HP is low (or they're in imminent danger, and will be damaged significantly before you finish casting), Reverser first if their HP is high. Then do the other if the situation still calls for it.

Correct Force Playing 101, right there.

[Gamemako]

Seriously.

"WAAAAH, I DIED BUZ U DIDNT HAEL ME"

"I don't have resta."

"UR A FORCE. U R RESTA MACHINE. ITS UR JOB"

"No, that's what the 20 dimates in your inventory are for."


Bleemo, being the 2nd strongest caster doesn't make them more force than hunter; it merely means that there is one primarily force class. Simple analogy: if one class were 100% wizard, one were 95% warrior and 5% wizard, a third 99% warrior and 1% wizard, and the rest all 100% warrior, does that make the second class more wizard than warrior (95% warrior versus 5% wizard)?

[Bleemo]

On 2006-11-20 03:41, Gamemako wrote:
Seriously.

"WAAAAH, I DIED BUZ U DIDNT HAEL ME"

"I don't have resta."

"UR A FORCE. U R RESTA MACHINE. ITS UR JOB"

"No, that's what the 20 dimates in your inventory are for."


Bleemo, being the 2nd strongest caster doesn't make them more force than hunter; it merely means that there is one primarily force class. Simple analogy: if one class were 100% wizard, one were 95% warrior and 5% wizard, a third 99% warrior and 1% wizard, and the rest all 100% warrior, does that make the second class more wizard than warrior (95% warrior versus 5% wizard)?


Judging from their stats, yes indeed being the second strongest caster does make them primarily a Force. "Primarily" in this situation would mean Wartecher is simply more oriented to one class than the other. Judging from the stats, it's pretty clear. Wartecher benefits from using technics than any other class aside from Fortetecher, as FiGunner benefits from melee more than any other class aside from Fortefighter, having the second highest ATP. They're a hybrid more oriented toward using technics; you can't really get past that.

Why is it that people get offended by words like "healbot" or "resta machine"? Is it really THAT bad having others rely on you to heal them?

In this game(Useless comparing with other games), if anyone has the ability to heal and doesn't take advantage of it will severely gimp themselves and their group. Of course it isn't their job to heal, but it is their job to play their class well, and that involves taking advantage of all your abilities for your group.

If you can heal, do it. Stop being stuck-up, stop being a moron, and just do it. It's part of your class. It makes everything run smoothly, it can guarantee S rank, and it increases your group's overall performance dramatically. You have no reason to not like it, because that would be disliking a fundamental part of your class.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

man, this thread is really making me want to make a Wartecher. I think I'll finally create my 4th character who will be one.

[daylight129]

As a hunewearl, and even playing a humar in PSO, I always enjoyed doing SD, Resta, or Anti. Why? Because I was good at it. I don't get why people cry about it having to do it so much in this game. If you have the ability to heal, and you fail at it, then you aren't playing your class right. If I was an expert class that could use techs aside from a fortetecher, I would probably only carry one wand, and it would have resta and anti on it.

I too don't understand how "healbot" and "resta machine" are insults. In my opinion if you get called that you are being complimented as a better healer if anything.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: daylight129 on 2006-11-20 04:20 ]</font>

[Kerik]

On 2006-11-19 12:10, Kupi wrote:
I invoke the Curse of the Healer. "Any class that can heal competently will be expected to do so."

As a Wartecher, you're more Force than Hunter. You are one of three expert types in the game that can use Technics, and of those, you're one of two that can do so well. This means that you are among the rare few who is capable of generating healing for the entire party at low cost (respectively speaking). Therefore, regardless of any other abilities you may have (attack technics or melee skills), you will be expected to heal-- because you can. It's the same with Shamans, Druids, and Paladins in WoW, Monks in Guild Wars, and White Mages in FFXI. Do what you will, there's nothing stopping you, but your greatest contributions to the party are your healing and buffing spells. Don't expect to be well-received among PUGs if you ignore them.




Hey hey hey, Monks in Guild Wars? Have you ever SEEN a Smiting Monk? They have other ways of play, it's not "YOU HEAL, THAT ALL YOU DO, MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA" See, so, it's just dumb to say that you're only for healing as a monk. I have seen several smiting monks who knew what they were doing and outdamaged everyone in the group...

Anyway, yeah. Just because you HAVE heal doesn't mean you USE heal. If they aren't out of the way, or something then heal them I say. While I don't necessarily like it...if you try and make my life easier for healing you, I'll heal you.

[daylight129]

This topic is so noob, IMO.

[Rider]

If you have the ability to heal, use it. Yes there are items to do that but sometimes people run out or can't use them in time. Also the term healbot means that's all you will be doing. If you're having to constantly heal your party(not being able to do anything but heal to keep them alive) then the party is terrible to begin with. There will be times when you have to heal and times you wont. It's not like there won't be moments inbetween heals to do what you want. This isn't WoW where if you have the ability to heal that is all you will be doing and wanted for.

On another note. The beauty of this game is that you can switch classes. If you dislike wartecher then change into something else. No one is forcing it onto you.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rider on 2006-11-20 04:50 ]</font>

[-Ryuki-]

On 2006-11-20 04:49, Rider wrote:
If you have the ability to heal, use it. Yes there are items to do that but sometimes people run out or can't use them in time. Also the term healbot means that's all you will be doing. If you're having to constantly heal your party(not being able to do anything but heal to keep them alive) then the party is terrible to begin with. There will be times when you have to heal and times you wont. It's not like there won't be moments inbetween heals to do what you want. This isn't WoW where if you have the ability to heal that is all you will be doing and wanted for.

On another note. The beauty of this game is that you can switch classes. If you dislike wartecher then change into something else. No one is forcing it onto you.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rider on 2006-11-20 04:50 ]</font>

Listen to her. She says the same thing that several of us have been trying to say.

It's a mutual agreement. If the party is relying on you for heals, leave. Heals are nice coming from a FO, but if it's relied on as your only source, then you fail.

[GeoHolyhart]

On 2006-11-19 11:50, Bleemo wrote:
Leave healing to the Fortetechers.

If you need to heal yourself, or spot someone with unusually low HP that has been sitting there for a few seconds, then switch to your rod and toss a heal.

Your heals should be simply backup heals. However, if your group doesn't have a Force, it would be wise to take up the position as group healer. It's of course up to you, and they shouldn't rely on your heals(As has been discussed over and over again), but when there is a Resta to be tossed around, missions go much faster.


Smartest man here.

[Callous]

I love how these topics almost invariably skirts around the very real issue that if you do nothing but keep the party in shape, you get no xp. All you "it's your job" people seriously expect force characters to accept getting half the xp the rest of the party gets while saving them at the same time? Ridiculous.

You say "if everyone's healed, all the monsters are debuffed and the whole party is buffed, you can start hitting things". As if. We all know at least 50% of the xp are gone at that point.

Give the "it's your job" speech a rest. No, let it die. Anyone's "job" in this game is to have a good time. Keep saying otherwise and you will end up with a PSU that's practically devoid of healers. Then hunters can start bickering in between themselves about it being a "job" to drop trimates when you have more left than the other characters in the party.

That's called a negative spiral.

This is what you should be doing: Be happy when a force heals you and say thanks for the help after the mission. That way they might feel motivated to do it again on the next mission.

That's called a positive spiral.

Edit:


On 2006-11-20 04:10, Bleemo wrote:You have no reason to not like it, because that would be disliking a fundamental part of your class.

Wrong. A Force or wartecher might very reasonably choose to be a force or wartecher with the fundamental reason being they'd like to dish out damage with techs, resta just being an added bonus. If that is indeed how that person sees things, it's HIS/HER money being used to play the game, not yours.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Callous on 2006-11-20 05:13 ]</font>

[GeoHolyhart]

On 2006-11-20 05:02, Callous wrote:
I love how these topics almost invariably skirts around the very real issue that if you do nothing but keep the party in shape, you get no xp. All you "it's your job" people seriously expect force characters to accept getting half the xp the rest of the party gets while saving them at the same time? Ridiculous.

You say "if everyone's healed, all the monsters are debuffed and the whole party is buffed, you can start hitting things". As if. We all know at least 50% of the xp are gone at that point.

Give the "it's your job" speech a rest. No, let it die. Anyone's "job" in this game is to have a good time. Keep saying otherwise and you will end up with a PSU that's practically devoid of healers. Then hunters can start bickering in between themselves about it being a "job" to drop trimates when you have more left than the other characters in the party.

That's called a negative spiral.

This is what you should be doing: Be happy when a force heals you and say thanks for the help after the mission. That way they might feel motivated to do it again on the next mission.

That's called a positive spiral.

I must be awesome then, because I can heal and deal damage. If they're killing the monsters before you can tag them, you're probably running C rank stuff with level 25+ characters.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GeoHolyhart on 2006-11-20 05:09 ]</font>

[lordzanon]

Job? Is ment to take that role????

since when psu became FFXI or WOW?

in pso NO one took the role of healer, NO one just sat there and Healed. Everyoe played as the wanted, those who had heal spells used em when a big attack , like falz grantz spell or see a few get knocked down. As i remember no one took the role of doing it, everyone spammed resta(whoever had it) when somthing big happened.

As far as i remember it was no ones JOb or "Job class " to do it. We all know Force, , guntecher and wartecher can heal, but its not their damn "job to do it or their "role" to do it.

Guys and gals, if you havent played pso for a long time and forgot, or got to involved in wow or ffxi, this is psu and it plays like pso, you play as you feel like it, there is no gimped job/race combo theres no gimped wep layout, you play as you like.

if you so into wow and ffxi and wanna play psu as said games, then your prob missing your fav game or have suffered irriversible trauma.

its actually those players ill do my best to avoid, those who belive a "job" has to do thier "role". Play as you like darnit, thats what made pso so fun.

[Callous]

On 2006-11-20 05:08, GeoHolyhart wrote:I must be awesome then, because I can heal and deal damage. If they're killing the monsters before you can tag them, you're probably running C rank stuff with level 25+ characters.

The problem is, most people in these topics seem to think tagging takes a backseat to healing for a force. Obviously, if everyone's fine with a force tagging the mobs first, the issue is diminished. It still doesn't leave much room for an aggressive force, though. If someone wants to play "dark sorceror" and just throw in a few heals when absolutely necessary, then it's STILL their $10/month. And they'll deal a shitload of damage.

Oh and excellent post, lordzannon.

[Magician]

...this is why I'm a fan of having at least a couple forces in a party. One for support, one for nuking, and then trading each block. Good times I tells ya. But unless the force user announces his/her intention to babysit, they aren't obligated to resta jack squat. Be thankful one's with you.

[Neith]

I think I'll be more of a Hunter as a Wartecher. I'll deal out Shifta/Deband, and Resta if there's no Fortecher. Likely only use offensive techs against thing that are resistant to melee damage.

If there's a Fortecher, I'll leave the support to them, unless the team's in a dire situation. Otherwise, I'll be playing the HUnewearl-aspect of Wartecher. It's a diverse class, you can play as mainly a FO who can hold their own in melee if needed, or more melee orientated, and use techs as backup.

Remember, PSU isn't 10 healing items like PSO. You can carry 20 Monomate/Dimate/Trimate, and then things like Star Atomizers in lower quantities. They're there to be used, Hunters/Rangers shouldn't be reliant on a Force to heal, but it is appreciated if a Force can heal the party. It shouldn't necessarily be a requirement, more of a priviledge if a Force will do the healing. It saves HU/RA having to worry about their HP.

Edit: Bleemo has it covered pretty nicely, Wartechers are backup healers, if anything, just as HUnewearl was back in PSO.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: UrikoBB3 on 2006-11-20 05:44 ]</font>

[Pure-chan]

"Judging from their stats, yes indeed being the second strongest caster does make them primarily a Force."

Hmm. Lv 20 Skills and Techs don't really make you primary anything. Wartecher is as much a secondary FO as a secondary HU. More than likely you'll end up being healed when it's convenient, but don't bet your life on it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-11-20 05:46 ]</font>

[-Ryuki-]

And WarTecher also don't get any unique equipment, or access to any S-Rank weapons.

[Ronzeru]

As a wartecher, whenever you heal yourself, you'll be fighting along the other melee, so you'll be healing'em anyways. Wtf is wrong with you people with wanting to keep other people alive anyways? If they die, thats YOUR S rank your losing you know.

[-Ryuki-]

As I see it.. If you want your beloved S rank, work as a team, even if you hate each other.

Be like the greedy people, by saying "It's for the money, not the sentimental friendships that can be gained!"

[Magician]

On 2006-11-20 06:37, RyukiZero wrote:
And WarTecher also don't get any unique equipment, or access to any S-Rank weapons.



Incorrect, they have access to S-rank Daggers and Twin Daggers.

[Katachi]

Ah crap, it's 5 Force, 3 Hunter??? I thought it was the other way around... I just switched from hunter to force after getting 5 Hunter...that's two job lvls I could have spent working on force! >__<

Monomates and trimates arent that expensive as long as you're playing missions matched to your character level. The people I play with for the most part use di/trimates when fighting a mob, and when an area's clear, we hit up the force to refill our health bars. Forces have other tech/PA/bullets they need/want to level up as well and it's just rude to expect them to give up developing skills or tagging enemies for xp just so other players can rush head on and mash the attack button. Forces are not a substitute for having to learn how to manage your own hp.

[Alisha]

On 2006-11-19 11:50, Bleemo wrote:
Leave healing to the Fortetechers.

If you need to heal yourself, or spot someone with unusually low HP that has been sitting there for a few seconds, then switch to your rod and toss a heal.

Your heals should be simply backup heals. However, if your group doesn't have a Force, it would be wise to take up the position as group healer. It's of course up to you, and they shouldn't rely on your heals(As has been discussed over and over again), but when there is a Resta to be tossed around, missions go much faster.


wartechers will be in a better position to cast resta and giresta. its nice if thats what your into but i'll pass because twin daggars blow and so does a lvl 20 cap on skills. twin daggars blow so bad you might be better off goin daggar/staff handgun/staff combos in your pallete,i also think genbtecher will be best off going crossbow/staff especially once those crossbow bullets hit lvl 21



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-11-20 07:32 ]</font>

[Gamemako]

On 2006-11-20 07:27, Alisha wrote:

On 2006-11-19 11:50, Bleemo wrote:
Leave healing to the Fortetechers.

If you need to heal yourself, or spot someone with unusually low HP that has been sitting there for a few seconds, then switch to your rod and toss a heal.

Your heals should be simply backup heals. However, if your group doesn't have a Force, it would be wise to take up the position as group healer. It's of course up to you, and they shouldn't rely on your heals(As has been discussed over and over again), but when there is a Resta to be tossed around, missions go much faster.


wartechers will be in a better position to cast resta and giresta. its nice if thats what your into but i'll pass because twin daggars blow and so does a lvl 20 cap on skills. twin daggars blow so bad you might be better off goin daggar/staff handgun/staff combos in your pallete,i also think genbtecher will be best off going crossbow/staff especially once those crossbow bullets hit lvl 21



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-11-20 07:32 ]</font>


And that, class, is the definition of an opinion. Any questions? You WILL be tested on this.

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-11-20 14:15, Gamemako wrote:

On 2006-11-20 07:27, Alisha wrote:

On 2006-11-19 11:50, Bleemo wrote:
Leave healing to the Fortetechers.

If you need to heal yourself, or spot someone with unusually low HP that has been sitting there for a few seconds, then switch to your rod and toss a heal.

Your heals should be simply backup heals. However, if your group doesn't have a Force, it would be wise to take up the position as group healer. It's of course up to you, and they shouldn't rely on your heals(As has been discussed over and over again), but when there is a Resta to be tossed around, missions go much faster.


wartechers will be in a better position to cast resta and giresta. its nice if thats what your into but i'll pass because twin daggars blow and so does a lvl 20 cap on skills. twin daggars blow so bad you might be better off goin daggar/staff handgun/staff combos in your pallete,i also think genbtecher will be best off going crossbow/staff especially once those crossbow bullets hit lvl 21



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-11-20 07:32 ]</font>


And that, class, is the definition of an opinion. Any questions? You WILL be tested on this.



Indeed in better place for healing and not die while trying, but your opinion on twin daggers is not only off, but uneducated. Heck even the level 20 cap is a terrible assumption specially form someone who rants over offline mode.

Daggers is good for getting in a crowd and shredding multiple targets multiple times with buffs you'll do not only well but not get hurt to much. Not to mention high HP from the class itself. As for 2 levels of PA only, thats just more ignorance, choose a PA with 2 starter levels of abilities you like, from physical CC to damage, theres more than 1 PAs to choose from I thought there were in offline mode. Only bonuses to that 3rd chain is an even more impressive damage % bonus on top of the first two and since its third an impressive finish.

So I'd re think your tactics or choose another class really alisha.

[Saphion]

I have to admit though, Wartecher has some nostalgia value.

A hunter with good mental capabilities, eh? Sounds a bit like HUnewearl from PSO, doesn't it?
Add in the fact that Wartecher has access to S-rank daggers and twin daggers - weapons that HUnewearls were constantly shown with, from the official art for PSO, to Sue (who was the generic HUnewearl in the game's offline 'story') in-game.

[Bleemo]

On 2006-11-20 07:27, Alisha wrote:
wartechers will be in a better position to cast resta and giresta. its nice if thats what your into but i'll pass because twin daggars blow and so does a lvl 20 cap on skills. twin daggars blow so bad you might be better off goin daggar/staff handgun/staff combos in your pallete,i also think genbtecher will be best off going crossbow/staff especially once those crossbow bullets hit lvl 21

Try Daggers out. You'll find quickly how useful they are. In fact Daggers are--in my opinion--the most useful melee weapon. It's very versatile and doesn't heavily rely on ATP as other weapons do. Twin Daggers allow for very quick AoE damage, and the Lv21 PA combo hit actually knocks the enemies away giving great damage and survivability properties. Which, in my opinion, fits the Wartecher class perfectly.

As far as the Guntecher statement is concerned; as someone who is going for Guntecher myself, I feel Guntecher is a ranged support class, applying status effects quickly and accurately with Twin Handguns, and tossing a Resta or S/D off whenever it's needed. The only time I'd use Technics as a Guntecher would be to toss a quick heal/buff, or farm lower missions. When given less than half the TP of even a Wartecher and only level 10 Technics, Wartecher is far more Technic oriented than Guntecher; even as a Newman I doubt my nukes will do much damage.

[zandra117]

on the JP version people kept booting me because I wouldnt stand around healing people as a wartecher. "Your a force your suppose to heal" "No, Im a wartecher, I heal myself, I cant keep swapping to my wand while im swinging my sword at mobs. You have dimates dont you?" *boot*

[Kent]

On 2006-11-20 07:27, Alisha wrote:
wartechers will be in a better position to cast resta and giresta. its nice if thats what your into but i'll pass because twin daggars blow and so does a lvl 20 cap on skills. twin daggars blow so bad you might be better off goin daggar/staff handgun/staff combos in your pallete,i also think genbtecher will be best off going crossbow/staff especially once those crossbow bullets hit lvl 21


Your opinion of both Twin and Single Daggers seems to differ from most of the people here, seeing that most future Wartechers really like them - but opinions are opinions. Unfortunately, though, you can't use a Dagger and a Wand in the same palette slot... Or else, I'd have a lot more Daggers on me right now. :/

[Gamemako]

Guntechers are also your level 30 bow, card, and crossbow users. OK, so fortegunners get level 30 bullets for crossbows too, but guntechers get S rank!

Anyway, yeah Zandra, aren't people like that annoying as hell?

As for twin daggers, try the second PA. Better than the first if you ask me, and reminds of the first dagger PA that everyone loves.

[WarfieldCross]

I can just see my Team Name and Comment Box.
"Wartecher"
"Not a HEALBOT, Enter at own Risk"