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View Full Version : I'm convinced a Beast Ranger is worse than a CAST Force



FenixStryk
Nov 19, 2006, 01:18 AM
Think about it. Sure, CAST Forces have the worst magic abilities, but a CAST Force isn't planning on using attack magic anyway. They will stick to having one Rod for Resta/Reverser, then having a bunch of bows. It's pretty much a Rifle-toting Ranger with Resta but less HP. Not a big nerf, since you're just trading B-rank Rifles for B-rank Bows.

On the other hand, Beast Rangers have nothing to resort to in terms of their instincts (melee). Unlike a CAST Force, they get no alternative B-rank melee replacement and are limited entirely to weapons they do not excel at, most notably Mechguns and Shotguns.

To elaborate, Rangers do NOT need ATP, and in fact could care less. Their goal in life is to apply status effects, keep them on, and level them up. Damage is not a concern, and the lack of ATA will hurt them much more in the long run, even WITH the ATP buff.

Beast Rangers make a trade-off with no reward, while CAST Forces get something out of their sacrifice, notably Resta, higher MST, and, of course, bows.

While one can say that their Beast Ranger is doing "just fine", this is not because it works; it is simply because the game is balanced in such a way that one can kill anything no matter their character's inherent flaws.

The only reason one would say a CAST Force is the worst is due to the common stereotype of CASTs sucking at magic (notably in PSO, where they sucked so bad they couldn't use it at all). CASTs have improved as Forces, and they are now a viable race for this class, if not a preferred one.

So, to sum up, yes, no class is gimped to the point where it's unplayable, but the weaknesses of a Beast Ranger (Bad ATA, no melee to make up for it) are greater than those of a CAST Force (Bad TP, but bows, Resta, and higher MST to make up for it).

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FenixStryk on 2006-11-18 23:40 ]</font>

EphekZ
Nov 19, 2006, 01:22 AM
yay you have an opinion and are trying to force it on other people that don't care. Will you be wanting a cookie?

FenixStryk
Nov 19, 2006, 01:29 AM
On 2006-11-18 22:22, darkgunner wrote:
yay you have an opinion and are trying to force it on other people that don't care. Will you be wanting a cookie?Uh, dude? Where in that post am I "forcing it" on you to change your view. Was it my valid points?; because there's nothing else in there that could do such a thing.

DonRoyale
Nov 19, 2006, 01:31 AM
Uhh...soloing?

Nuke
Nov 19, 2006, 01:32 AM
ive made a beast ranger, did fine......

FenixStryk
Nov 19, 2006, 01:35 AM
On 2006-11-18 22:32, Nuke wrote:
ive made a beast ranger, did fine......I can say the exact same thing, since I am a CAST Force. In fact, I'm doing more than fine; I'm doing the same damage and status effects a Ranger does AND I get Resta. I'm doing just as well as a Ranger, if not better.

Dr_Lantis
Nov 19, 2006, 01:41 AM
My Beast Ranger is doing very well.

Fure_Rakune
Nov 19, 2006, 02:27 AM
My FOcast is doing just fine!
But its just a phase, its challenging but I like a good fight.
Having the right weaponry is good, high status stingers can do enough damage if I go melee and right now my defence is acceptable, its not overy hard to dodge things if they get close.
Ive yet to purchase some bows cause as soon as I get my force class to level 5 Ill be back to my previous hunter class until Protranser is available.

FenixStryk
Nov 19, 2006, 02:43 AM
Added some more info to the topic post. Have yet to see anyone post a counter-argument. I'm convinced that the CAST Force is higher in the polls simply due to their stereotype. Please, to all the CAST-haters, stop being racist (wow, I never would've thought I'd use that word over a game ) and give me a logical explanation. Please?

EDIT: LOL, just realised I made a funny:

On 2006-11-18 22:29, FenixStryk wrote:Where in that post am I "forcing it" on you to change your view.A CAST Force "forcing it"? Get it? ;p


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FenixStryk on 2006-11-18 23:46 ]</font>

Lastat27
Nov 19, 2006, 02:59 AM
I was actually thinking of making a CAST Force today. Or rather a "100% Bow using Force, that casts Resta and Reverser when needed for the party." Stat wise, bow's are almost evenly matched with Rifle's. As a CAST, you make up for some of the ACC and ATP that the Force class lacks, and you get an SUV for whatever its worth. The only concern is, will you have enough Tech Power to heal you and your team mates for a decent amount?


Rangers do NOT need ATP, and in fact could care less. Their goal in life is to apply status effects, keep them on, and level them up. Damage is not a concern,

I do however completely disagree with this part. Using a Vullseye +5 with the correct elemental weakness attached, I often find myself doing the most damage in a party, at least in many situations. Hunters obviously do more damage when they continously hit more then one mob at a time, or more then one spot on a mob. But you can't just shrug off 450 damage a second (225 Damage x 2 shots) and say I'm only good for status effects.

Also, the only status effect barely useful on the new A Rank missions is Shock. Freeze breaks almost instantly when Hunters are spamming PA's on a mob. I really don't know where this whole "Hunters are support characters" came from. Status effects and making mobs flinch are great and all, but we do a ton of damage too. (Speaking for myself anyway.)

SolRiver
Nov 19, 2006, 04:10 AM
Well, what I would like to know is whether nano blast charge faster with ranger weapon or not. Then again, maybe I should just search for some nanoblast thread.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2006-11-19 01:11 ]</font>

SpishackCola
Nov 19, 2006, 04:20 AM
Did both. Had more fun as a B Ranger then C Force

Ryogen
Nov 19, 2006, 04:24 AM
Untill I try it....

SolRiver
Nov 19, 2006, 06:15 AM
Oh btw, why aren't newman hunter up there?

Randomness
Nov 19, 2006, 06:49 AM
Because thats probably the biggest mismatch. In any case, Beast Ranger is probably more difficult to do, but Shotguns are good weapons. After upgrade, with 4 bullets, they spread the pain nicely with the option of a point blank shot. And I do have a B Ranger, and I'm not limited to mechs and shotguns, I use twins to good effect, and a rifle for backup.

Finally, while you don't get any B rank stuff to fall back on, you need to remember that a well ground C rank has the same power as B ranks.

Arieta
Nov 19, 2006, 07:08 AM
I don't see why they're so bad?? I was level 40 leveling up ranger for Figunner. My Ranger level was *1* on A missions against level 45 mobs. I used twin hand guns from Yohemi and I barly missed. I was also doing 90x2 damage a hit. Why are they so bad? I didn't miss that much, I was doing good damage. I could've done more SE's but my gun PA's were pretty low.

Cross
Nov 19, 2006, 07:11 AM
On 2006-11-18 22:18, FenixStryk wrote:
Think about it. Sure, CAST Forces have the worst magic abilities, but a CAST Force isn't planning on using attack magic anyway. They will stick to having one Rod for Resta/Reverser, then having a bunch of bows. It's pretty much a Rifle-toting Ranger with Resta but less HP. Not a big nerf, since you're just trading B-rank Rifles for B-rank Bows.


To elaborate, Rangers do NOT need ATP, and in fact could care less. Their goal in life is to apply status effects, keep them on, and level them up. Damage is not a concern, and the lack of ATA will hurt them much more in the long run, even WITH the ATP buff.

These are where you go wrong.

First, a Longbow is not a substitute for a Rifle in any way. The firing rate of a Rifle is nearly twice as fast, for one, giving them signifigantly higher overall damage, and PP Regeneration on a Longbow is absolutely abysmal; 7PP/tick just doesn't cut it for a Gun-type weapon.
A Cast Force trying to use a Bow as a primary weapon is going to be sorely disappointed when its damage is even lower than their techs and they can't fight through more than two or three rooms before it's completely empty, with regeneration being far too slow to really make a difference.
A Card/Wand Cast Force could be workable. A Cast Force using a Bow is a Ranger with reduced damage, no attack versatility, and very little use to their party if all they're doing is throwing Resta and Reverser when necessary.

On the other point, saying that Rangers don't need ATP is ridiculous. No, a Ranger will never compare in raw damage to a PA-spamming Hunter against enemies that aren't hard to hit and don't have any dangerous skills, but nothing in the game does. Rangers put out very respectable damage in addition to status effects, and a Beast gains as much benefit from that as a Cast does from their increased ATP/ATA/DEF/HP as a Force.

Nika
Nov 19, 2006, 07:21 AM
beast ranger can do a lot of damage to enemy, and actually his accuracy isn't that bad.

Arieta
Nov 19, 2006, 07:23 AM
That's how I felt. Even though I was only leveling it up for Figunner, and had ranger level 1. I still didn't miss that much, only a little bit. Which is to be expected with me being lower level then the mobs and only having 1 rank in ranger. Still I was doing pretty good damage 180 a hit with twin handguns isn't that bad at all. They fire really quick and on the move so I was doing just fine.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 08:37 AM
Once again, you may be able to make a pure beast ranger WORK, but that doesn't change the fact that a cast, with not much lower ATP yet MUCH higher ATA, makes them completely REDUNDANT.

IMO pure classes should use the race that suits them. You go pure to excel in ONE area, so why gimp it? You might say for looks alone, and it's basically up to you. But even as somebody who plays predominately for looks, I do not understand it. Maybe it's because I enjoy every class in this game.

And Cross, the reason for bows runs thusly.

You can knock shit out of the sky. And you can damage shit that's vunerable to ranged weapons.

Without a RA, a party playing on Moatoob NEEDS a force with a bow. Don't knock the bow. It's a vital weapon, and makes me wonder why hunters don't get a similar piece of long range equipment.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-11-19 05:41 ]</font>

Randomness
Nov 19, 2006, 08:38 AM
No, Bows fire only slightly slower than rifles, with slightly less range, but more power. While the primary role of a ranger is to land status, if you arent putting out damage at the same time, you'd better be completely disabling the enemy.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 08:43 AM
They fire quite a bit slower, but that doesn't change the fact they are higher power. I really like them, and as Guntecher they'll be replacing rifles for me.

They are INSANELY useful in Moatoob. Yep, even in A rank.

Shiro_Ryuu
Nov 19, 2006, 08:44 AM
I don't really mind if someone would want to be a Beast Ranger, a CAST Force, or a Newman Hunter and I would actually respect their choices, even if or especially if they're doing it to piss off elitists. But I'm sure they can be viable with the Beast's higher ATP, the CAST higher DFP, ATA, and longbows, and the Newman's EVP, ATA, and Crea weapons, though not as good as other options.

Randomness
Nov 19, 2006, 08:47 AM
My reasoning behind Newman Hunter is Wartecher. Since I get my lovely techs, I can always fall back on them for damage, support, etc.

Genoa
Nov 19, 2006, 08:48 AM
Challenging classes to attempt:
Newman/Hunter
CAST/Force
Beast/Ranger
Newman/Fortefighter
Newman/Protranser
Beast/Fortegunner
CAST/Fortecher

And IMO, Newmans that are in a class that can't use their Teching ability are being wasted. I don't care who says "omg, but i'm doing fine" well you could be doing better, so stfu >_> those pointy ears were born for teching. Throw in some swords and guns if you want, but if it's not for Warteching or Gunteching >_> then gtfo.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 08:49 AM
Yeah but the thing is, the cast's ATP really isn't that much worse than beast, and the ATA is SO MUCH better, it makes beast fortegunner totally redundant.

What would be even more LOL would be a beast guntecher.

If you really can't stand looking at cast ass, then I feel sorry for you because they make the best rangers.

AND HERE I AM PLAYING A RAMAR, SO SUE ME. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Eh, I'm going ybrid so at least I get an excuse there.

lordzanon
Nov 19, 2006, 08:50 AM
Quote: "Finally, while you don't get any B rank stuff to fall back on, you need to remember that a well ground C rank has the same power as B ranks. "

QFT. Currently i have a the 2000 meseta C yomehi dagger grinded to lvl 5 and its has more atp than a 4* yomehi dagger ungrinded.Im waiting till my lucks lvl 3 , then ill make +9 c grinders and atempt to go higher hehehe.

Sexy_Raine
Nov 19, 2006, 09:02 AM
Low-tier race classes are unplayable, just wait till S-Missions, you people will regret it.

Nova is mid-low tier as a ranger. Her stats have nothing better over ranger cast's
and I sense this will be a lot of trouble for harder missions. But that's my choice though, I won't be changing it.

BTW I'm sick of these stupid "should I use these low-tier race/class?" topics. I you want to be crap, sure go ahead, no one is saying you shouldn't.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-11-19 06:18 ]</font>

Arieta
Nov 19, 2006, 09:08 AM
On 2006-11-19 05:49, -Shimarisu- wrote:
it makes beast fortegunner totally redundant.




I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Maybe the word you're looking for is obsolete? Which would imply that the cast is a better ranger, which it is and that the Beast is inferior towards the cast. Redundant just means two of the same things, or excessive. Don't see how that applys there since you're trying to make it sound in the sentance that Beasts wouldn't be the best fortegunner , which they arn't. A good example of the word redundant in use. "It's overly redundant to have more then one hunter in a Fanatics A group"

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 09:15 AM
No, obsolete would imply it used to be good and is now outdated.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Meow.

Mystil
Nov 19, 2006, 09:17 AM
On 2006-11-19 03:15, SolRiver wrote:
Oh btw, why aren't newman hunter up there?


Because it is ineffective.

Genoa
Nov 19, 2006, 09:17 AM
I would say the most reasonable choices in classes would be (in expert classes)
Humans: Wartecher / Guntecher
due to Humans having lower melee/ranged statistics than CASTS/Beasts (not by too much though) and the fact they have TP/MST to balance them out... it would be best if they could use some Melee/Ranged/Tech weapons to utilize all of their statistics.

Newmans: Fortechers/Wartechers/Guntechers
as I said earier, if they can't use their Techs, then gtfo. Nobody wants to see a newman that can't support the party, especially with the liability of them dying so quickly without a form of Resta.

CASTS: Fortegunners/Fortefighters/Protranser/Figunner
IMO, the CASTS have the widest range of expert class eligiblilty. Their good ATP and awesome ATA allow them to use Melee and Ranged weapons exceptionally. Therefore, any class that doesn't involve Techs... are actually outstanding for them. And I really think Protranser is going to be nice for them seeing it will allow them to use lvl. 30 Skills and Bullets. And as said earlier, grinding a weapon below the next higher class can still be a great weapon. Besides, i'd feel better breaking a +5 A rank... than a +1 S rank x_x

Beasts:Fortefighter/Figunner/Protranser
because seriously, their ATA isn't much to talk about, but when they do hit it hurts like hell. Therefore the brute Fortefighter class is quite handy. Yet Figunner would give them a boost in ATA and allow them to use some dextrious weapons, a plus as well. And Protranser would allow them to go lvl.30 bullet, giving their guns more ATA with the Bullets equiped, AND they'd have lvl.30 skills, so they can hit better with their PA's as well.

This is all.... IMO btw >_> don't accuse me of jack

Arieta
Nov 19, 2006, 09:17 AM
It still works better in that sentance then Redundant, which you've used in about 3 threads on this same topic (saying exactly the same thing in each of them). Redundant doesn't even fit , or even make sense in the sentance that you make.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 09:21 AM
Good god, I use the phrase "Beast fortegunner is redundant due to the presence of cast" so often because:

You have two choices. One is excellent. One is sub par. They are both equally easy to get, so ONE is redundant.

DO YOU SEE? Now don't correct my English again, because yours is so bad it's frankly an insult.

DrewSeleski
Nov 19, 2006, 09:24 AM
I'm sure what we all mean is beast fortegunner is gluaghluaghluagh toilet sex

Mewn
Nov 19, 2006, 09:25 AM
On 2006-11-19 06:17, Arieta wrote:
It still works better in that sentance then Redundant, which you've used in about 3 threads on this same topic (saying exactly the same thing in each of them). Redundant doesn't even fit , or even make sense in the sentance that you make.


Makes perfect sense to me.

PS: It's spelled 'sentence'. Sure you should be discussing English when you misspell a rather basic word?

Arieta
Nov 19, 2006, 09:25 AM
But it's just so fun to stir you up Shim! You get so emo an any comment that's directed at you I just couldn't resist my chance to do it at you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

Phalynx
Nov 19, 2006, 09:26 AM
Im not gonna vote for either because I have one of each, heh. I dont play these games to have the optimal class, or to have what other people think I should have. It's a game, and im going to enjoy playing it how I like. Sure, some races are better suited for a class, but arent necessarily better. The game is much more skill based anyway. Sure, your newman FO may do more spell damage, but if your getting hit too often, or getting yourself killed, I dont see how your more effective than a skilled player with a less suitable class. So for those who think people shouldnt play an odd race/class combo because of there less effectivness, just remember that even people playing the "right" race/class can be useless in comparison to somone who can play the game properly.

Arieta
Nov 19, 2006, 09:27 AM
Oh I could care less about it actually, I just wanted to have my chance to see how emotional Shim was going to get off of me saying something about her post. It's not a fun day unless I see her explode on the forums at least once. They make work more fun during my offtime when I get a chance to read her replys.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 09:36 AM
On 2006-11-19 06:27, Arieta wrote:
Oh I could care less about it actually, I just wanted to have my chance to see how emotional Shim was going to get off of me saying something about her post. It's not a fun day unless I see her explode on the forums at least once. They make work more fun during my offtime when I get a chance to read her replys.



It really doesn't follow that you'd make YOURSELF look retarded just to get at me.

Hint: Half the time when I make an OMG FUCK FUCKING FUCK post, I'm actually pretty laid back in my attitude and laughing about it in IRC.

So you're getting entertainment from what is MOSTLY just an act. I quit being irritated by the internet about a year ago.

Yeah but sure, those bad reviews hurt me because I'm scared of the game dying when I have so much invested in it. THAT IS ALL. Half of the trolling I do is intentional to get the thread moved where it won't be seen.

Did you realise this? Eh, I'm wasting my time on you.

Shiro_Ryuu
Nov 19, 2006, 09:38 AM
^
I don't think that bad ratings will make this game any less enjoyable than it is now. In fact, I think it may even filter out some losers and only keep the good people who played PSO and were fans of the game.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 09:42 AM
I don't want Sega shutting down the servers, but more importantly in the immediate future I do not want the economy of the game to die. Because it is a MAJOR part of the fun of it for me.

Shiro_Ryuu
Nov 19, 2006, 09:43 AM
yeah, I guess you have a good point.

Arieta
Nov 19, 2006, 09:44 AM
That's kinda how I feel. If you like the game, you like it. It's not like you're going to stop playing because some no name on a website (or whatever) posts a review on the game you're playing and says it's bad. You're not suddenly going to stop playing the game because of it.

Schubalts
Nov 19, 2006, 09:45 AM
Here's a thought...

THE PEOPLE WHO PLAY THE ODDBALL COMBINATIONS PROBABLY DON'T CARE HOW THEY COMPARE TO OPTIMAL COMBOS. Stop ragging on certain race/class combos in a game where gear and knowing how to think is more important than your natural stats.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 09:48 AM
On 2006-11-19 06:45, Schubalts wrote:
Here's a thought...

THE PEOPLE WHO PLAY THE ODDBALL COMBINATIONS PROBABLY DON'T CARE HOW THEY COMPARE TO OPTIMAL COMBOS. Stop ragging on certain race/class combos in a game where gear and knowing how to think is more important than your natural stats.



Yeah but I don't have much respect for that, because most people who play oddball combos do it cause they only like a certain class (oh, say hunter) but they want the looks of a certain race (oh, say newman) cause they just want to fuck space elves. :O



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-11-19 06:49 ]</font>

Shiro_Ryuu
Nov 19, 2006, 10:03 AM
yeah, but I still dont' think of it as a good reason to say this and that sux. remember though that Newman still have Crea Weapons.

Mystil
Nov 19, 2006, 10:10 AM
On 2006-11-19 06:45, Schubalts wrote:
Here's a thought...

THE PEOPLE WHO PLAY THE ODDBALL COMBINATIONS PROBABLY DON'T CARE HOW THEY COMPARE TO OPTIMAL COMBOS. Stop ragging on certain race/class combos in a game where gear and knowing how to think is more important than your natural stats.



I see you are a newman hunter yourself.. all I have to say is pile on defense..don't worry about power.

Schubalts
Nov 19, 2006, 10:21 AM
I pile on attack now, because...I'm not paying 150k+ for armor that is one step above what I have now, which was only 12k. :| And I can manually dodge most of the attacks thrown at me, until I get mobbed, or get a bit of lag.

Shiro_Ryuu
Nov 19, 2006, 10:29 AM
if u get mobbed up, you can always just PA them. how is it like being a newman hunter anyway? is it hell or are you doing ok?

Arieta
Nov 19, 2006, 10:33 AM
I was in a group today with a newman hunter in fact. kinda threw me off since I'm not used to seeing them in such a role... but then again I wasn't much to talk since I was a Beast Ranger at the time (getting my ranger levels for expert class). Anyways, I was doing a easy De Ragon B run for mission points when they joined. Mobs are what, level 25ish?

They were level 29 and went through the entire mission and only got hit *once*. The beast hunter on the other hand had to use a lot of healing items since he didn't play as smart. To the newmans credit, they took full advantage of tactics and knockdown PA's to help do this.

SoiFong
Nov 19, 2006, 10:39 AM
::holds the bridge of my nose and sighs::

Ill be happy when the hybrid classes appear, that way this conversation will seem a bit less pointless to me.
I played a Focast for a bit its not that bad.
I am sure Beast Rangers are not that bad either.

Sure its not optimal .. but who the heck cares? Right now we only have 3 stinking classes and if people want to be prepped for hybrid classes they are going to HAVE to be one of the non-optimal combinations eventually. So please people, lighten the fuck up. When the hybrid classes appear, THEN get into the elitst dribble ... It will at least be more "understandable" but no less bone-headed then. Everygame is going to have its number crunchers, munchkins and tweakers, I know that .. but the bickering just seems silly right now.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 10:42 AM
When I played beast ranger all I did was spam dagger PAs with grinded up daggers. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

SoiFong
Nov 19, 2006, 10:48 AM
On 2006-11-19 07:42, -Shimarisu- wrote:
When I played beast ranger all I did was spam dagger PAs with grinded up daggers. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif



works for me .. as long as people are pulling thier weight, i dont care.. I say do what floats your boat shim-dear.

etlitch
Nov 19, 2006, 11:02 AM
Compared to cast. Healing and Doing spells for about 40% of a newman.

Cross
Nov 19, 2006, 11:49 AM
On 2006-11-19 05:37, -Shimarisu- wrote:
And Cross, the reason for bows runs thusly.

You can knock shit out of the sky. And you can damage shit that's vunerable to ranged weapons.

Without a RA, a party playing on Moatoob NEEDS a force with a bow. Don't knock the bow. It's a vital weapon, and makes me wonder why hunters don't get a similar piece of long range equipment.


I wasn't really knocking it. I like bows. Bows are pretty cool.

What they are not is a replacement for Rifles. A Rifle can be a main weapon, but Bows are strictly delegated to backup-weapon status. What it boils down to is that if you're a Fortechter, you pretty much just use it to hit the enemies that techs can't touch. If you're a Wartechter, you use it to hit the things you can't hit in melee or with techs. If you're a Guntechter or Protranser, you've got Rifles, which are the better choice 90% of the time.

Great weapons, but nobody should fool themselves into thinking that their Cast Force is going to be "just a Ranger" because they can use a Longbow.

Schubalts
Nov 19, 2006, 02:06 PM
On 2006-11-19 07:29, Shiroryuu wrote:
if u get mobbed up, you can always just PA them. how is it like being a newman hunter anyway? is it hell or are you doing ok?



Doing perfectly fine. Actually, in the parties I've been in, I usually end up taking the least amount of damage out of the hunters. I think the HP of other races is making some people think they don't need to dodge at all. Alot of HP or DEF doesn't help much if, the player charges right into a group of enemies and tries to use an AoE PA when the enemies are all facing him/her! At least TRY to get behind a group before doing that.

Ryoki
Nov 19, 2006, 03:53 PM
I disagree. CAST forces are just plain dumb. Robots shouldn't be able to use TECHNICs. PSO made sure of that. And if you limit your attacks to bows, you are really missing the point of being a force....Resta and Reverser, WATCH OUT!

________
300 letter series (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Chrysler_300_letter_series)

KirinDave
Nov 19, 2006, 04:17 PM
On 2006-11-19 08:49, Cross wrote:

What they are not is a replacement for Rifles. A Rifle can be a main weapon, but Bows are strictly delegated to backup-weapon status. What it boils down to is that if you're a Fortechter, you pretty much just use it to hit the enemies that techs can't touch. If you're a Wartechter, you use it to hit the things you can't hit in melee or with techs. If you're a Guntechter or Protranser, you've got Rifles, which are the better choice 90% of the time.


Forces occupy a funny role with their damage, which is a kind of "support" damage. Bows are part of that. For example, fighting Onma, forces can pretend to be a ranger for a short time and plink the wings so that the hunters can finish it off when he falls.

I agree that they're no replacement for rifles (given the PP regen), unless the status effects are better? One thing I'm not sure about is how powerful the bow status effects are in comparison to the rifle. Has anyone experimented with this?


Great weapons, but nobody should fool themselves into thinking that their Cast Force is going to be "just a Ranger" because they can use a Longbow.

[/quote]

HC82
Nov 19, 2006, 04:25 PM
Focasts throw out restas for questionable results. The amount of healing was pretty low. Had to cast resta twice to heal 50% HU hp to full. It means that a FOcast has to throw out heals a lot sooner then a newman, who can heal for full when people are at critical.

BTW, its been proven that Beast Ranger is statistically the best class ever in the whole wide world. A team of 6 beast rangers converge into an omni-Ethan and they have S rank in everything.

Kanore
Nov 19, 2006, 04:43 PM
Newman AnythingExceptForce sucks too.

AC9breaker
Nov 19, 2006, 04:43 PM
On 2006-11-19 13:25, HC82 wrote:
BTW, its been proven that Beast Ranger is statistically the best class ever in the whole wide world. A team of 6 beast rangers converge into an omni-Ethan and they have S rank in everything.



kind of like Captain Planet! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Schubalts
Nov 19, 2006, 04:55 PM
We've had that discussion already! Get with the times!

Triple_S
Nov 19, 2006, 05:20 PM
I'm not going to vote, since there isn't a better or worse Race/Class match, it all depends on the skill of the user. This is another reason why I'm making a Beast ForteGunner or whatever it's called, since I want the challenge, and I like making people spaz out about how inefficient I am even though I'm owning their ass. "WAIT," you say, "YOU AREN'T ONLINE YET!!11!shift+1" Well, trust me when I say I've done things like this before. It's funny.

It's also a good way to get the more ignorant players to realize how much a small ounce of common sense and maybe a bit of strategy can help. From what I've heard, there's a growing problem with players joining games without even one Scape Doll or healing item/tech. Then they die and ruin your mission's rank. This is what causes the mass of profanity in the lobbies and lack of good ranks.

Natrokos
Nov 19, 2006, 08:12 PM
If you want a shooting weapon...Play a ranger....A Cast Force who only has resta/reverser and totes a bow around (that caps at 10) is not as good as it may sound. You have less atp, ata, hp, def then a ranger and you are almost completely negating what little tp you do have.

If you are still having doubts think of it this way....What would be better, A Newman force with status effects from spells, cures, diga for goddsake...... or a bow using Cast who can use cure. Also the Beast ranger has the same chance of causing the status effect (so long as he can hit...Just pick up ATA boosting guns/arm slots.)

Merumeru
Nov 19, 2006, 09:07 PM
my Merumerus not doing so bad in her ranger type XD then again, after watching her tear shit up as a fighter, then electrocuting crap to death as a magician, the ranged class is definently not her forte X3

Ravennittes
Nov 19, 2006, 09:21 PM
Both these butcherings are horrible IMO. CASTs should be either hunters or rangers, beasts should just be hunters, and newmans should stay doing what they do best: using diga.

Triple_S
Nov 19, 2006, 09:39 PM
I know they're a horrible choice. That's the point of choosing them, for the extra difficulty. I might just make a FiGunner or whatever the half-hunter half-ranger one is, because I thought about it, and my character's skills have always been to be best with guns, but is still excellent in melee combat since PSO and other games.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 19, 2006, 09:56 PM
A fighgunner beast is worlds away from a fortegunner beast.

KirinDave
Nov 19, 2006, 10:48 PM
It doesn't matter how race+basic class fares in the long run. People have entirely legit reasons to play any race with any basic class, because they're grinding for an advanced class. A newman hunter may not be that worthwhile, but a newman Wartecher makes a lot of sense. Likewise, a CAST guntecher is going to be a common upgrade path.

It's crazy to suggest that only humans should go for hybrid classes.

People will compensate for their bad stats with good gear, and lean on the part of their hybrid classes that works best.

FenixStryk
Nov 23, 2006, 11:53 PM
On 2006-11-19 04:11, Cross wrote:
First, a Longbow is not a substitute for a Rifle in any way. The firing rate of a Rifle is nearly twice as fast(1), for one, giving them signifigantly higher overall damage, and PP Regeneration on a Longbow is absolutely abysmal; 7PP/tick just doesn't cut it for a Gun-type weapon.(2)
A Cast Force trying to use a Bow as a primary weapon is going to be sorely disappointed when its damage is even lower than their techs(3) and they can't fight through more than two or three rooms before it's completely empty, with regeneration being far too slow to really make a difference.
A Card/Wand Cast Force could be workable. A Cast Force using a Bow is a Ranger with reduced damage, no attack versatility, and very little use to their party if all they're doing is throwing Resta and Reverser when necessary.(4)
I underlined every counter-point in there that is dead wrong.
1) The firing rate of a Rifle is 1.2x faster than a Bow. That translates to 6 shots every 5 seconds compared to 5 shots every 5 seconds for bows. The better damage of a bow pretty much nullifies the speed advantage.

2) GRM Rifles only gain 8PP per tick, compared to a Bow's 7PP. This drop is by no means abysmal, and in fact negligible at best.

3) CASTs do a lot less damage for magic compared to bows. Diga, for example, does about 250 per cast using a Slyrod, and takes about 3 to 4 seconds to cast.

A Rikalbari does 140 to 180 damage per shot, and fires once a second. Damage per second is much higher with a bow than a spell.


4a) Damage of a Bow-toting Force is just a little under that of a Rifle-toting Ranger. (See 1))

4b)No attack versatility? A CAST Force is GUARANTEED to be using all 4 elemental bullets, which gives him a clear advantage over all enemies. It's versatility in itself. Most Rangers have so many different weapons that they don't major in every bullet element.

4c) A Force that only casts Reverser and Resta is more useful than an attacking force. This pretty much makes a party invulnerable. Most forces are too ignorant to heal someone that's injured or paralyzed. A CAST Force is usually more aware.
_____ _ _

As for this paragraph...

On 2006-11-19 04:11, Cross wrote:
On the other point, saying that Rangers don't need ATP is ridiculous. No, a Ranger will never compare in raw damage to a PA-spamming Hunter against enemies that aren't hard to hit and don't have any dangerous skills, but nothing in the game does. Rangers put out very respectable damage in addition to status effects, and a Beast gains as much benefit from that as a Cast does from their increased ATP/ATA/DEF/HP as a Force.
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm
Of course this is true, but you're avoiding the point. The advantage of a little more damage is outweighed by the MAJOR dip in accuracy. The benefit (+ATP) is not worth the sacrifice(---ATA). When compared to a CAST's benefit (Bows, Resta/Reverser)from its sacrifice (-HP, Rifles), it is but a mere shadow!

Your move, bro. Looks like you're in check.
Stealth Necromancy

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FenixStryk on 2006-11-23 21:06 ]</font>

Cause_I_Own_U
Nov 24, 2006, 12:00 AM
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cause_I_Own_U on 2006-11-23 21:01 ]</font>

FenixStryk
Nov 24, 2006, 12:09 AM
On 2006-11-19 13:17, KirinDave wrote: One thing I'm not sure about is how powerful the bow status effects are in comparison to the rifle. Has anyone experimented with this.At lv.10, Bows have a 19% SE apply rate and a Lv2 SE level. It's pretty much a Rifle bullet with a higher SE apply rate. Yet another advantage. Guntechers, I give you your new Rifle.

Nietzsche
Nov 24, 2006, 12:27 AM
I've spent the past 2 days lvling as RAbeast as i've gotten Lvl 10 Hunter and i have to say its not near as bad as alot of you guys are saying, i'm not going to pretend its somehow better but i do fine and whatever shots i miss i make up for when i nanoblast >.>

Longinous
Nov 24, 2006, 01:44 AM
Sounds to me like you just dont like hereing ppl bag on Casts that go force (probably your pick) but i think ppl should do what they want and if someone talks some garbage so what it aint thier problem and you shouldnt let it bother you buddy.

forgot to say, baggin on a class combo you think is worse makes you just as much of a jerk as ppl thet bag on your ideas.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Longinous on 2006-11-23 22:53 ]</font>

Yoruichi
Nov 24, 2006, 02:08 AM
I dunno if Cross even has any experience but I've used bows and rifles and I never broke it down to numbers but it seems what fenix says holds true. Thankd for clearing up the ignorance fenix.

Itsuki
Nov 24, 2006, 04:05 AM
On 2006-11-23 21:09, FenixStryk wrote:

On 2006-11-19 13:17, KirinDave wrote: One thing I'm not sure about is how powerful the bow status effects are in comparison to the rifle. Has anyone experimented with this.At lv.10, Bows have a 19% SE apply rate and a Lv2 SE level. It's pretty much a Rifle bullet with a higher SE apply rate. Yet another advantage. Guntechers, I give you your new Rifle.



Whoa whoa now, don't be stupid fenix. That 19% is your elemental damage, and has nothing to do with status effects. Lets clear up some stuff even more here:

Bows:
- Ignore enemy defence and has higher elemental percents allowing their damage potential to be higher in many situations.
- Higher ATA makes up for some characters lack of ATA
- Deals status effects LESS OFTEN because it fires slower, but at the same quality as Rifles.
- Shoots noticably slower. Its not a huge bit, and is mainly noticable for the first bullet.
- Has a large start up time for shooting. This makes it miss monsters more, and makes your ability to dodge less.
- Lower PP regen, but not really by much (IMHO)

Rifles:
- If you're going into guntecher, you'll probably already have higher level rifle bullets.
- Shoots faster, so deals status effects more often.
- Offers more maneuverability and better accuracy.
- Longer Range
- Up to B-rank has Youmei versions with huge amounts higher PP.

Now, lets go over some basics:
The % number that is listed is the amount of elemental damage you will deal. This means against monsters that are the opposing element to that, you deal more if that % is higher.
Both bows and rifles are SE2 to start out. Then grow to SE3 at 11+ and SE4 at 21+. They're the only guns that get SE4.

But if you want my 2 cents on Beast Ranger. It does suck. But not as much as a Cast Force for one big reason. A Newman Wartecher has better stats than a Cast fortecher and probably still deals equivalent if not more damage with both physical and technic damage.

Seriously (female level 60 job 10):
Newman Wartecher: 1764 HP, 452 ATP, 201 ATA, 777 TP, 134 DEF, 418 EVA, 267 MST
Cast Fortecher: 1253 HP, 327 ATP, 157 ATA, 587 TP, 81 DEF, 364 EVA, 222 MST

Now, I think those numbers speak for themselves, but incase you don't see it, a newman wartecher is 1/3rd higher in every single stat. Theres really only 2 disadvantages the Newman Wartecher has over the Cast Fortecher:

1) Level 10 bullets compared to level 30 makes its bow ability only really good for bosses.
2) It can't equip rods.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Itsuki-chan on 2006-11-24 01:07 ]</font>

Nietzsche
Nov 24, 2006, 09:50 AM
Now, I think those numbers speak for themselves, but incase you don't see it, a newman wartecher is 1/3rd higher in every single stat. Theres really only 2 disadvantages the Newman Wartecher has over the Cast Fortecher:

1) Level 10 bullets compared to level 30 makes its bow ability only really good for bosses.
2) It can't equip rods.

you just make a really excellent point....

We only get to argue about things in terms of Hunter/Ranger/Force for another 7 days http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

panzer_unit
Nov 24, 2006, 10:08 AM
I think Cast forces are worse - long-term - than Beast rangers.

Yay bows are great vs rifles... but being capped at lv10 skills _sucks_ compared to going lv11+ with awesome status effects and totally catching up for damage. I managed to level Force to about rank 5 before the bow skills hit max... had I wanted to keep going as a Force from there, the only thing you can work on is spells. Cast forces have lowest MST of everybody and will do the least damage with Techniques... you can't dodge that forever staying as a Force.

It seems to me Beast rangers do more damage than Cast rangers all the way to max level. Leveling up those ammo skills will compound that lead bit by bit. There are ways to deal with the ATA difference: use the booster items; use close-combat guns like mechs and shots (which also charge your rage guage and make the most of high base ATP) and go for the back-shots since they don't miss. In a team this means attacking a monster that's going after someone else (pretty much a ranger's job anyway) and solo it means using a melee PA to knock the stupid thing over so you can circle around, and maybe favoring freeze ammo to hold the thing still for further abuse. Doesn't sound terribly inconvenient.

Doh42
Nov 24, 2006, 10:36 AM
I prefer my Beast Ranger over Beast Force, even though the stats says my Force should be better. Beast Ranger might have the worst accuracy out of 4 races, but they still have the best ATP, which counts a lot. And status effects, ATA or not, will connect, if you shoot in a monster's back... Just don't do the twin handgun-strafing/kiting, and circle them monsters, shoot where it hurts.

Nietzsche
Nov 24, 2006, 11:59 AM
oh and since this argument hinges on the fact that the FOcast will be playing force in a manner different from what would be expected i'd just like to mention this......my beast ranger was smacking mobs for 100+ dmg with my C rank 25% dark Stinger that i havn't even grinded yet, mind you i'm only lvl 3 as well, so really beast ranger would still be able to milk they're melee proficincy a good amount, not that we HAVE to unlike FOcast

McFresh_Bot
Nov 24, 2006, 12:55 PM
My cast is gonna be a wartecher, we'll see how that pans out.

Cross
Nov 24, 2006, 02:29 PM
On 2006-11-23 20:53, FenixStryk wrote:
I underlined every counter-point in there that is dead wrong.
And it's such a shame that you went to all that trouble only to be way more off the mark than I was.

1) The firing rate of a Rifle is 1.2x faster than a Bow. That translates to 6 shots every 5 seconds compared to 5 shots every 5 seconds for bows. The better damage of a bow pretty much nullifies the speed advantage.
No. Test this more thoroughly. I've recently run a comparison between the two, multiple times. Rifles fire 1.5x as fast as Longbows. The bows aren't quite as slow as I thought, but it's a signifigant number - if not with respect to pure damage, then with respect to SE-applyability.


2) GRM Rifles only gain 8PP per tick, compared to a Bow's 7PP. This drop is by no means abysmal, and in fact negligible at best.
Buuuulllllllllllshit. Are you playing offline or something? GRM Rifles regenerate at 12PP/tick, and Youmei Rifles regenerate at 16PP/tick. It's far from negligible; Longbows literally regenerate half as fast as Rifles.
Longbows also have a slightly smaller PP pool in general compared to GRM rifles of the same quality, and far less than Youmei Rifles of the same quality.


3) CASTs do a lot less damage for magic compared to bows. Diga, for example, does about 250 per cast using a Slyrod, and takes about 3 to 4 seconds to cast.

A Rikalbari does 140 to 180 damage per shot, and fires once a second. Damage per second is much higher with a bow than a spell.
Almost a salient point, except that it ignores AoE techs. A Ra-tech nailing three enemies will more than likely be at least on par, and if you're good at lining up enemies, Barta-types are going to outstrip everything pretty quick.

Still, this is also dependant on what you're fighting, so it's not entirely ignorable. You are indeed correct that a Bow can do comparable damage to techs on a Cast, on some enemies. Bows are better than I'd originally thought, and I'll admit that.

At the same time, I should reiterate that the PP drain from using a Longbow as a primary weapon coupled with the atrocious regeneration means that you can't rely on them as a primary weapon unless you really, really hate meseta.



4a) Damage of a Bow-toting Force is just a little under that of a Rifle-toting Ranger. (See 1))
Shot-per-shot, there's an 80~90 ATP difference between a Cast Ranger and Force (natural ATP) in the low 40s (For the moment, I'm speaking about Basic Types only). A 5* Longbow is 32 ATP higher than a Vullseye.

Now, Longbows ignore defense. That ranges from useless trivia to a nice perk depending on what you're fighting. With no BA equipped, the ATP difference makes about 10 damage. The defense on an A-Rank mission enemy tends to reduce damage by 20-25 (counting 'small' enemies, not the big motherfuckers like Bil de Vears). In other words, the Longbow will be doing maybe 15 damage more per shot, so 10-15% more damage per shot.

Except that, over time, the Longbow is firing only 2/3 as many shots, so the Longbow ends up dealing somewhere in the area of 75% the damage of the Rifle.

And also, I said that's without Bullet Arts. If you factor those in, a Ranger will have up to level 20, while a Force is stuck at level 10. That's an extra 10% added to the ATP multiplier, and closes the elemental multiplier differencce to 13% on the Rifle compared to 19% on the Longbow.
And the Rifle will have level 3 SEs while the Longbow has only level 2.
And the Rifle will shoot 1.5x the number of shots, and will get 150% the opportunities to inflict SEs.


I've changed a lot of my viewpoint on Longbows after doing actual testing regarding how they work, but there's one thing that hasn't changed: Longbows are totally unsuited to use as a primary weapon. Forgetting any issues with damage or with Status Effects, the PP cripples them. With Expert Types, they become viable, if situational, secondary weapons on Guntechters (and likely Protransers), but they're strictly tertiary on Forces and Fortechters.

Either way, things change a bit regarded the BA levels if you want to start talking about Expert Types, but Itsuki's already covered why Cast Fortechter is a horrible decision.

4b)No attack versatility? A CAST Force is GUARANTEED to be using all 4 elemental bullets, which gives him a clear advantage over all enemies. It's versatility in itself. Most Rangers have so many different weapons that they don't major in every bullet element.
Actually, most Rangers who use a large number of weapons balance their PAs to cover all of those elements, and a lot of Rangers keep mastery in all elements with their most-used weapon, which is often the Rifle.

But that's only versatility in elements. A real Ranger has the option to use a Shotgun for tagging lots of enemies with minor SEs, or point-blanking it for huge single-target damage. A Ranger has the option of equipping Dual Handguns and getting a slightly higher damage output on most enemies, while remaining almost entirely mobile. And they can do all of those things with any element; at this stage of the game without Light/Dark shots (and since we're not talking about Expert Types) it takes 12 slots to be perfectly proficient in all elements for those three gun types. It's easily doable.


4c) A Force that only casts Reverser and Resta is more useful than an attacking force. This pretty much makes a party invulnerable. Most forces are too ignorant to heal someone that's injured or paralyzed. A CAST Force is usually more aware.
No... A Force that only casts Resta and Reverser is a bad Force. It's just not necessary to heal that often. Any Force can babysit status effects with Reverser, too; the only thing worse than a Force too dumb to heal status effects is a Cast Force who spends so much time going after them that he ends up being nothing but dead weight in a party slot.


http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm
Of course this is true, but you're avoiding the point. The advantage of a little more damage is outweighed by the MAJOR dip in accuracy. The benefit (+ATP) is not worth the sacrifice(---ATA). When compared to a CAST's benefit (Bows, Resta/Reverser)from its sacrifice (-HP, Rifles), it is but a mere shadow!

Check your figures, champ (http://psu.fei-yen.jp/wiki/html/A5CDA5C3A5C8A5EFA1BCA5AFA5E2A1BCA5C92FC0EFC6AEA5BF A5A4A5D72FA5B9A5C6A1BCA5BFA5B9.html#za0b9073).

A Beast (M) Ranger, at level 50 and level 10 Ranger, has 220 ATA and 438 ATP.
A Cast (M) Force, at level 50 and level 10 Force, has 153 ATA and 302 ATP

Assuming 5* Rifles and Bows respectively, the Beast Ranger will have 336 ATA and 755 ATP.
The Cast Force will have 338 ATA and 651 ATP.

So the Beast Ranger won't really be missing any signifigant number of attacks more than the Cast will, the Beast Ranger has a 104 ATP leg up on the Cast (offset somewhat by the Longbow ignoring defense), the Beast Ranger will be firing off 150% the number of shots, will have level 3 SEs instead of level 2, will have a higher ATP multiplier on his PA, will have a slightly larger PP pool to dig from, and will have nearly twice the PP regeneration.


So what's that then? Check? Checkmate? Double checkmate? Fatality?

Itsuki
Nov 24, 2006, 02:52 PM
Hahaha, no need to sound so angered cross. But seriously, fenix really has no clue about anything regarding rangers. I actually found it rather amusing he didn't know anything about the fundamentals of PSU and was so hell bent on arguing things that are completely untrue.

Seriously though, I don't think theres any arguging that a Beast Ranger will miss just as often, if not less, then a cast force. This is made only worse with extended classes, where all ranger based classes get huge boosts to ATA and all force base classes lose huge amounts of ATA (as well as force based classes losing HP, ATP, and DEF).

You all can argue the merits of beast ranger vs cast force, but you have to consider in a couple weeks its going to be pointless. If you look down the line at a beast fortegunner vs a cast fortecher, theres almost no arguement over which is better. Beast rangers only gain atp and ata when going to fortegunner. While on the other hand, cast forces significant amounts of atp and ata when going to fortecher.

If you really want to argue which is better, you really have to argue what they're going to turn into. Theres absolutely no reason ever to turn a cast into a fortecher. Period.

Nietzsche
Nov 24, 2006, 03:36 PM
you all forgot one more thing, a beast ranger can always shoot the mob from the back and hit every time and hit hard
no matter what the FOcast does his spells will still suck >.>

Itsuki
Nov 25, 2006, 07:52 PM
The nature of ranged weapons makes it so its hard to shoot from the back with most of them. So thats not exactly the best point.

Ryoki
Nov 25, 2006, 10:38 PM
I use Perpa/hit with my beast (i'm a cheapskate,k?). My point is, with a unit boosting hit, a beast ranger is completly viable. Plus, Beasts add power to the very weak bullets.

________
VAPOR GENIE REVIEW (http://vaporizer.org/)

FenixStryk
Nov 25, 2006, 11:43 PM
Itsuki and Cross shot me down. You make good points. I thought I had my facts straight, but I don't.
I never thought of this as a Beast Fortegunner vs. CAST Fortecher argument. When that's in the equation, the winner is clear.
Looks like this argument can finally be put to rest.

Shiro_Ryuu
Nov 26, 2006, 11:11 AM
thanks for the link to the Japanese stats guide, I've been looking for that for a while.

Arieta
Nov 26, 2006, 11:18 AM
I can't believe you guys are still talking about this.

KirinDave
Nov 27, 2006, 12:30 AM
On 2006-11-25 20:43, FenixStryk wrote:
Itsuki and Cross shot me down. You make good points. I thought I had my facts straight, but I don't.
I never thought of this as a Beast Fortegunner vs. CAST Fortecher argument. When that's in the equation, the winner is clear.
Looks like this argument can finally be put to rest.



I would like to applaud FenixStryk for being one of the few people in the entire online world that can say, "Wow. I was wrong. Thank you for educating me."

Itsuki and Cross win a medal for smarts. Fenix wins a metal for humility. A+ thread, one of the most informative threads about practical applications of the data gathered. Thank you.

Arieta
Nov 27, 2006, 04:42 AM
Just keep in mind though that you can buy a +95 (I believe that's right) ATA item, though it'll also increase your PP cost by 50%. That would make a Beast Ranger far, far more effective then a cast Force. Reason why is that ATA is just for hitting mobs, has nothing to do with damage. But the casts low TP will never be increased high enough to do enough damage comapred to humans or newmans.

Mainly just means that if a beast wishes to use that item they would just have to carry a few extra guns on them or maybe a proton charge or two. Not that big of a deal to offset your classes weakness.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 27, 2006, 07:38 AM
What's hilarious is how 90% of this thread is voting based on basic classes, and 10% are trying to argue what stats are like in expert.

It's not stupid for ANYONE to play a nerfed class at basic because many expert classes (ie Guntecher on a cast) are just fine with that race and require you to nerf yourself for a while in basic. With very few repercussions too. But why would ANYONE take race to forte that sucks at it? I mean, that's just fucking yourself over stupidly. People might argue looks over stats, but I still can't take them seriously because:

OMG! I LIKE GUNS! BUT I ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE DOGGY EARS, AND MORPH INTO A CAT PERSON=lol, furry. Play a human and give them cat ears from the shop or something.

ELVES ARE SO HAWT! I LIKE BEING A DELICATE LITTLE FLOWER, WITH PORCELAIN SKIN, AND ALL FRAIL AND INNOCENT! ALTERNATIVELY, LEGOLAS IS MY BISHIE! BUT I STILL WANT TO WIELD A GREAT BIG SWORD! AND I DON'T WANT PEOPLE RELYING ON MY FOR STATUS STUFF!=LOL, just die.

ROBOTS ARE SO COOL! I DREAM ABOUT ROBOT CHICKS, I MEAN, YOU CAN TURN EM OFF AND ON AT YOUR COMMAND! I WANT TO BE ALL SERVING MY MASTER AND SHIT, AND BY THAT I WANT TO HEAL EVERYONE AND HAVE THEM DOMINATE ME=Fuck's sake you're broken too. Play a newman.

Miyoko
Nov 27, 2006, 07:42 AM
... Or you know, you can not care about your stats or anything, and just have fun.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 27, 2006, 07:47 AM
I don't care about my stats, and don't worry about it, because I pretty much like all the classes' looks equally BAR MALE NEWMEN THEY LOOK TERRIBLE and I am happy to play any class combo.

I respect Argus (beast) too much to make him a fortegunner. That would just make him silly. If you make your characters suck I guess you just don't love them enough!

Itsuki
Nov 27, 2006, 08:14 AM
On 2006-11-27 01:42, Arieta wrote:
Just keep in mind though that you can buy a +95 (I believe that's right) ATA item, though it'll also increase your PP cost by 50%. That would make a Beast Ranger far, far more effective then a cast Force. Reason why is that ATA is just for hitting mobs, has nothing to do with damage. But the casts low TP will never be increased high enough to do enough damage comapred to humans or newmans.


Drop only from Lutus Jigga (Rare Svalatus) on S.

And also, technically speaking, theres a +110 TP unit that drops from Onma S.

And also, theres a +145 atp -80 ata unit from De Ragan S.

-Shimarisu-
Nov 27, 2006, 08:33 AM
On 2006-11-27 05:14, Itsuki-chan wrote:


And also, theres a +145 atp -80 ata unit from De Ragan S.



I wouldn't touch this with a bargepole, which is ironic really, because with this equipped you really couldn't touch anything with anything.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-11-27 05:34 ]</font>

Itsuki
Nov 27, 2006, 09:01 AM
As a newman guntecher, in certain situations I might consider it. After all, I do generally run around with the +60 atp -20 tp unit. Especially since I can buff and debuff as a newman guntecher. Its not horrible, just not for all situations. And nearly all units in PSU have some sort of disadvantage.

Cross
Nov 27, 2006, 09:08 AM
On 2006-11-27 05:33, -Shimarisu- wrote:
I wouldn't touch this with a bargepole, which is ironic really, because with this equipped you really couldn't touch anything with anything.


On a L70 Cast Fortegunner, ATA with this equipped is still higher than a L70 Human Fortegunner, it's not much lower on L70 Cast/Human Guntechter, and 80 ATA is roughly the ATA difference between a Longbow/Card and a Rifle on a Guntechter, and less than the difference between Human/Twin Handgun and Cast/Rifle. Human/Twin Handgun isn't the absolute zenith of accuracy, but they can hit the broad side of a barn.

On a Cast Fortegunner or Guntechter you could get away with that unit pretty easily if you're using a Rifle, Card, or Longbow. You could probably get away with using it on Twin Handguns (although that'd be pushing it).

In the worst case scenario, you'd still be far better than a Beast Guntechter/Fortegunner, and you'd probably come out on top compared to a Human too. That's actually a pretty sweet unit, but considering where it drops I'm not gonna be busting my ass to get it.

Itsuki
Nov 27, 2006, 09:18 AM
Its De Ragan S, its not horrible. I mean, Go-Vahra are endlessly annoying, but De Ragan himself is a pansy. And as I said, it really depends on location and situation. That unit is really ideal for soloing. At level 60+ as a Newman/Cast Guntecher/Fortegunner, you could still hit everything perfectly in A-rank missions, and this would give you a good 30+ damage per bullet. It'd also be really ideal for Bruce's Dungeon B. Though Bruce's Dungeon A requires very specific tactics (not to mention its practically an S with its 60+ requirement).

Cross
Nov 27, 2006, 09:21 AM
On 2006-11-27 06:18, Itsuki-chan wrote:
Its De Ragan S, its not horrible.

Oh, it's not so much that. It's just that since day 2 or so of PSU NA, my De Ragan battle tactic is to join a group, tell them I have to go AFK, and then read a book until they finish the mission, because De Ragan is fucking boring http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

-Shimarisu-
Nov 27, 2006, 09:28 AM
I made a throwaway joke and nerds much more adept at................nerdmanship made a statistical analysis of it.

Oh internet, I love you.

Anyway I was thinking moreso cast hunter vs beast hunter, but I'm really not too much fussed about it either way.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-11-27 06:30 ]</font>

Ghen
Nov 27, 2006, 09:46 AM
On 2006-11-19 06:48, -Shimarisu- wrote:

Yeah but I don't have much respect for that, because most people who play oddball combos do it cause they only like a certain class (oh, say hunter) but they want the looks of a certain race (oh, say newman) cause they just want to fuck space elves. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-11-19 06:49 ]</font>


You don't want to fuck space elves? Are you xenophobic or what? Gimme some alien ass! XD

Shiro_Ryuu
Nov 27, 2006, 10:27 AM
a 145+ atp and 80- ata unit? whats the name of it?

Cross
Nov 27, 2006, 10:29 AM
On 2006-11-27 07:27, Shiroryuu wrote:
a 145+ atp and 80- ata unit? whats the name of it?


Solid/Power S.

Itoshi
Nov 27, 2006, 11:15 AM
lol good debate. I enjoyed reading this. Yeah... and FOcasts are a great challenge by the way(Offline) and I find that they look really cool too.

Alisha
Nov 27, 2006, 08:36 PM
beast ranger can also actually use the power nano blast without spamming zero's. even at 100 my beast hunter still spams zero's in the hive if i try to use power. also a beast ranger using a shotgun or crossbow fills thier nanoblast guage noticably faster.