Meseta for sale!!! ON E-BAY!!!???? [Archive]

Carlos21

Nov 21, 2006, 08:30 AM

lolololol, damn kids, so young and stupid http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I can see why they have only just started to appear as NA players have had a month to save and the EU release is just around the corner, all the kids in EU will want all the best stuff straight away without all the hard work, thats where dad comes in i guess, lol

even with player run shops overpriceing items, 200,000 Meseta would get you some good stuff, i on the other hand will be using my saber and handgun when i get online on friday, probably for the first few levels http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif then gring them as high as possible then sell them for more than there worth or feed to my PM http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

-Shimarisu-

Nov 21, 2006, 08:39 AM

It's just another way of making money, who the hell cares, if people want to sell or buy in-game items for whatever reason good luck to 'em.

It really is harmless as long as the in-game cash isn't acquired via hacking, and I don't think it's particularly stupid to buy it either. Well maybe, at that price. I mean that is pretty nuts, also I doubt in-game items on the NA version are really worth real world cash as it's a pretty obscure title.

Often it ain't kids who buy items with real cash. It's adults with good paying jobs and not as much time to play who think little of spending money to get a better gaming experience. I really do not give a fuck, let people live how they want.

Carlos21

Nov 21, 2006, 08:52 AM

Hardcore PSU players would make there money and items and stuff themselves, they are the ones who are sellin money on e-bay, as they have seen an oppertunity to make money.

im not against it, i was just surprised at the cost they are selling them for, if people are willing to pay that for game money then go for it.

you can make money fast in the game by grinding with friends and having fun, if new players want money quickly and cannot be asked to run around with the all powerful saber/handgun combo for a while then thats there decision,

also in my experiance, PSO players were generally college/school people who had alot of time to put into a game of this nature, sure there are older people who play but they al seemed to be a bit more chilled out and dident care if a friend had better items than they did, whereas the younger players want to be the best and have the best stuff as quckly as possible.

GeoHolyhart

Nov 21, 2006, 08:55 AM

I'm not against it or care if people buy it, but I don't care for it and will never buy it myself.

Zabot

Nov 21, 2006, 08:57 AM

hey holyhart, arent you an RPer on the PSURp site.? im going to be on the comp later lets play if you catch this message, my name is zabot.

well, class is over i gtg.

Peace

Genobee

Nov 21, 2006, 08:58 AM

Why what the hell is worth buying in this game yet?

Mystil

Nov 21, 2006, 08:59 AM

Unlike FFXI, it's actually fun to make money in PSU.

Genobee

Nov 21, 2006, 09:00 AM

Why what the hell is worth buying in this game yet?
Any thing worth buying now can easly be farmed up or the mesta for it can be farmed up in like 2 hours of game play. Even if theya re saving it for the next update it's still dumb because there is nothing to do but farm gold until then.

Remedy

Nov 21, 2006, 09:06 AM

I dunno, 5000 meseta for 99 cents doesn't sound too terrible. XD

TheTasuke

Nov 21, 2006, 09:10 AM

I'm not against this at all. In Final Fantasy XI, our economy was nearly trashed due to the gil sellers. They spent hours making gil, and since we all had to camp the same monsters to make ours, and they were using third party programs to claim the monsters the moment they spawned, there wasn't much we could do. However, Phantasy Star Universe is a completely different situation. Everything is instanced; you only make meseta and experience points with your party, and it's highly doubtful that someone selling meseta would join a public party, at least on that character. I think they would have their own group. Regardless of how or why they sell the meseta, if it's not affecting us, I could care less. Besides, as someone before mentioned, the people who are gonna be buying it are probably going to be well-payed adults with jobs. People that like this game as much as we do, but don't have the time to play it. If they're busy with their jobs and have the cash to buy meseta so they can just have fun when they play, that's fine with me. I'll respect that.

[ This Message was edited by: TheTasuke on 2006-11-21 06:11 ]

[ This Message was edited by: TheTasuke on 2006-11-21 06:12 ]

Shaidar

Nov 21, 2006, 09:20 AM

Heh, well, it was only a matter of time before these things got to PSU as well.

I'm strongly against any outside means of obtaining in game items, character or whatever. Why? Because it ruins the balance.

Before I countinue ranting, I'll just make clear that this post is only about selling and buying items for real money. Not about any other means of cheating (don't get me started on that shit). Yes, I consider buying stuff from ebay cheating.

As I previously said, it messes up the balance. People will be able to obtain top gears with little or no effort, hence spitting in the face of all those that actually put some effort into it. Now I'm sure someone thinks "its their money, let them do as they please". Yeah, it's their money, but I wouldn't want to play a game where your chances are not dependant on effort/skill, but real life cash. Wouldn't be much fun.

There is no involving PvP in PSU yet (sadly, but lets not go into that since it's way off topic) so technically ebaying will only hurt the in game economy, which is already bad enough in my eyes. There will always be people buying this shit, hence there's people already selling. There *is* a demand for ebaying in pretty all the major online games. And that's damn sad actually.

Now, let's imagine what it would be like if there were people that could obtain items without effort nor money, (by hacking for example) and then selling it for real cash. Wouldn't be much left for the honest gamers, and would surely lead to the death of the game itself.

Wow..what a doomsday post. I need a coke.

Thrash777

Nov 21, 2006, 09:22 AM

Yeah, it'll be ok if cheating doesn't start becoming common place, otherwise everything just collapses...

But what I find interesting is, if everything is server based, that means they can see/check your chracter and its inventory... so if they see anything suspicious, they have proof and can act on it...

Like if a weapon you find has imbedded data, like what time you found it, where, with who etc etc If it's a hacked item, it wouldn't have that data... just a thought...

TheTasuke

Nov 21, 2006, 09:25 AM

Wrong. It wouldn't destroy the balance. The people selling the meseta definitely aren't hacking. They're making it, and giving it away. You've given away or gotten meseta from a friend, right? The game isn't ruined yet, haha. As long as someone is doing the work to get the meseta, I think it's fine.

Edit: Way too used to talking about this on FFXi. Gah. lol *substitutes meseta for gil* :3

[ This Message was edited by: TheTasuke on 2006-11-21 06:26 ]

Thrash777

Nov 21, 2006, 09:27 AM

Did I say it was? No. Don't try and find fault with everything...

If it was hard earned, then it's their choice to do what they want with it....

Shaidar

Nov 21, 2006, 09:28 AM

On 2006-11-21 06:22, Thrash777 wrote:
Yeah, it'll be ok if cheating doesn't start becoming common place, otherwise everything just collapses...

But what I find interesting is, if everything is server based, that means they can see/check your chracter and its inventory... so if they see anything suspicious, they have proof and can act on it...

Like if a weapon you find has imbedded data, like what time you found it, where, with who etc etc If it's a hacked item, it wouldn't have that data... just a thought...

I'm fairly sure items and such stuff gets logged, so if there's a need for it (and someone actually bother doing it) it should be possible to look up any suspicious characters and what they've been up to. That way it shouldnt be too hard to trace any illegit shit to the source. If it got way out of hand it wouldn't do much good though.

Shaidar

Nov 21, 2006, 09:38 AM

On 2006-11-21 06:25, TheTasuke wrote:
Wrong. It wouldn't destroy the balance. The people selling the meseta definitely aren't hacking. They're making it, and giving it away. You've given away or gotten meseta from a friend, right? The game isn't ruined yet, haha. As long as someone is doing the work to get the meseta, I think it's fine.

Edit: Way too used to talking about this on FFXi. Gah. lol *substitutes meseta for gil* :3

[ This Message was edited by: TheTasuke on 2006-11-21 06:26 ]

I've seen this cause trouble on several games, even tho the shit were legit in the first place. Imagine if everyone tried to vend the most valuable stuff on ebay, and not in game? :P I know it might sound far off (and luckily it is for now) and there's alot of "buts" and "imagine" here, but it doesn't change the fact that the possibility is there. :P

When/If hacked shit starts being sold there's no defending it in my eyes.

Heh, I know there's nothing to do about it, but I find it strange it's so accepted. Basically we've got people buying pieces of code which originally belongs to the server/Sonic Team. By paying the monthly fee and playing on the server we're borrowing that code for ourself. Gah, this is some deep shit.

[ This Message was edited by: Shaidar on 2006-11-21 06:39 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Shaidar on 2006-11-21 06:39 ]

ezcactus

Nov 21, 2006, 09:43 AM

It was only a matter of time really. The game relies on Meseta a lot more then the original games. However, it doesn't quite bother me as much as it does in other MMORPGs. This is because PSO/PSU relies alot more on player skill then actual stats. Sure you may eBay your way to that awesome S Rank weapon, but you're still gonna look retarded when you can't dodge that evil boss's attacks.

[ This Message was edited by: ezcactus on 2006-11-21 06:44 ]

Hresvelgr

Nov 21, 2006, 09:57 AM

RMT fucked up ffxi's economy, end of story. Any retard who played end game know's what im talking about.

Surely i cant see this happening with PSU since the rules of the system is totaly different but i would never ever suport any kind of item/currency selling for any game.

Just my 2 cents.

Carlos21

Nov 21, 2006, 10:11 AM

well, this is going well http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
some good points being put across......

i never played FFXI but from what i heard the economy was ruined by this sort of thing, and in PSU yeh, meseta is worth more than in PSO, and some players are going to (whether we like it or not) sell meseta and very soon items on e-bay to make money.

I just hope that this does not encourage people to hack the game (im sure it will happen eventually) to get items for the purpose of making REAL MONEY on e-bay, as this is just not on http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Shaidar

Nov 21, 2006, 10:18 AM

On 2006-11-21 07:11, Carlos21 wrote:
I just hope that this does not encourage people to hack the game (im sure it will happen eventually) to get items for the purpose of making REAL MONEY on e-bay, as this is just not on :(

I'm afraid it will. :/ Whether they can actually do it or not is another question, but it'll encourage them to try for sure.

Carlos21

Nov 21, 2006, 10:30 AM

Well lets hope that SEGA are true to there word and put our £6.99 ($10) to good use and stop this from happening http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Minneyar

Nov 21, 2006, 10:53 AM

I don't think that the sale of gil in FFXI ruined the economy as much as what the RMTers did to get that gil. With RMT bots camping every valuable spawn in the game, legit players were completely unable to obtain those items for themselves. The only way to get them was to buy them from RMTers at the auction house for massively inflated prices. Many players had to resort to buying gil to pay for those items, and naturally, the gil they used to buy them went right back up for sale. The cycle of inflation very quickly went out of control. That's what ruined FFXI's economy.

This sort of situation is much less likely in PSU. Due to the fact that every dungeon is instanced, it's impossible for RMTers to camp monsters and deny legit players access to them. Furthermore, in FFXI, you *had* to have the absolute best equipment to party effectively, and getting that always took hours of farming; on the other hand, it's possible for a player to go solo and acquire all the equipment they need in PSU fairly easily.

Hacking items has an even less detrimental effect on the economy. If it's possible to dupe items, rest assured that RMTers will not be the only people to figure out how. When normal players start duping items on a massive scale, prices will plummet, and everybody will be able to get whatever they want. (See what happened to PSO)

MayLee

Nov 21, 2006, 10:59 AM

If anyone is afamilliar or ever ran into a site called, "GaiaOnline" which is a RolePlaying community where you take his character and you earn gold to customize it. Well some people sell the pixelated Gaia gold on e-bay as well.

Anyone can sell anything there..like the PS3 for 3K for instance..>.>

-Ryuki-

Nov 21, 2006, 11:02 AM

Y'know, with the money they're spending on Meseta on Ebay, they could be using that money for a Wii, Wii Games, a PS3, PS3 games, a car, bills, or even a new house.

Silly people. It adds up once you've bought your first purchase of Meseta =P

Nayte

Nov 21, 2006, 11:09 AM

Like other people have said, if the meseta had been earned without the use hacks, cheats, exploits or whatever then its fine (for the seller anyway). For those who are silly enough to buy meseta. You wont be able to stop. Since you got it so easy by buying it, You wont care about whether you're being ripped off, scammed etc.
Also, if you "dont have time" then dont play at all. If you have time to play PSU sometimesl, then you have time to make meseta. Fact is, if you buy meseta for real cash, you're downright lazy. Props to the people who sell it though, if it's earned by honest means anyway.

Uyoku

Nov 21, 2006, 11:17 AM

Selling pretend game items and money on E-Bay is lame. It's also against many EULA's, as I've come to find out, same as selling accounts is against EULA's as well. But, people still do it, ebay doesn't stop it. It's taking advantage of idiocy and really shouldn't be allowed to happen...

Then agian, ebay allowing some shmuck to sell a PS3 for 10k is pretty lame too... You'd think companies would get it right and start producing more so they don't lose money like this by people reselling their stuff on E-Bay. Either that or do it themselves on E-Bay like a nice crooked little company would probably attempt to do...

Anyway, I just find this whole E-Bay and virtual items for games thing lame as hell. AND that powerlevelling crap too. You miss out on so much by letting someone else play for you... I just don't get it...

-Ryuki-

Nov 21, 2006, 11:19 AM

If I were to buy a PS3 off Ebay, it better damn well be less than 1000. I wouldn't ever go over 900, 'specially when shipping's already a hassle.

Now, wha the people said before me, speak sense. Listen well, and try not to counter it for those who are "pro" selling game items for actual money =)

Shaidar

Nov 21, 2006, 11:26 AM

On 2006-11-21 07:53, Minneyar wrote:
This sort of situation is much less likely in PSU. Due to the fact that every dungeon is instanced, it's impossible for RMTers to camp monsters and deny legit players access to them. Furthermore, in FFXI, you *had* to have the absolute best equipment to party effectively, and getting that always took hours of farming; on the other hand, it's possible for a player to go solo and acquire all the equipment they need in PSU fairly easily.

That doesnt change the fact that the supply won't meet the demand if ebaying becomes accepted and common. Unless you fall for it that is.

Also, we must not forget that there will always be competition in a game. Even if we're talking about a pure PvM game without PvP. And when someone take a shortcut people will either:
1. Get pissed off.
2. Use the same shortcut themself.

I go with alternative one. Others might go with alternative two. And there we have another reason the ebaying would just keep increasing, to the point you see all the good stuff being sold on ebay.

On 2006-11-21 07:53, Minneyar wrote:
Hacking items has an even less detrimental effect on the economy. If it's possible to dupe items, rest assured that RMTers will not be the only people to figure out how. When normal players start duping items on a massive scale, prices will plummet, and everybody will be able to get whatever they want. (See what happened to PSO)

Hacking does not only affect the economy, it ruins other players fun and the game itself.

First off, if you hack other peoples characters and steal their items, youre ruining another persons fun and all their hard work will be wasted, which is downright disgusting. Even if you don't hack others, and instead dupe your way to fortune, you'll still be signing the death sentence of the game.

As you said, the prices will fall, to the point the entire market crashes and the entire system with different kind of items, drops , synths and whatever is rendered useless.

That, and it's damn disrespectful to cheat. I'll never be able to approve of people doing that.

[ This Message was edited by: Shaidar on 2006-11-21 08:28 ]

_Deliverance_

Nov 21, 2006, 11:32 AM

Ok, look at it this way. Say there's a 11* axe out there, and ST decides the drop rate on it is too high. The supply that is already in circulation instantly skyrockets in price. The drop is now next to impossible to get, and if you want it, you'll have to by meseta to be able to afford it.

Also, we still don't fully understand the drop rate system in PSU. Sure, everything is instanced. But what if that 11* axe only drops once every 3 days, to a random run. But we have RMT running that mission 24 hours a day, all week, every week. It's a good chance that they will end up with more of those drops than anybody else, and thus can charge whatever they want for it.

DO NOT GIVE IN!!! DON'T SELL YOUR MESETA ONLINE, OR IT WILL BE THE BEGINNING OF THE END!!!!

Nietzsche

Nov 21, 2006, 11:36 AM

I'm not keen on real money trade at all, however upon reading this i decided to check out some of the larger rmt websites(you know the ones that actually have stock and stuff, and employ chinese people to farm 24/7) and they still havn't gotten into this game yet it looks like, a few people deciding to do this on ebay is one thing but its a whole different story when it becomes widespread

-Ryuki-

Nov 21, 2006, 11:41 AM

I'm not for RMT at all. RMT made FFXI less fun. Even the Gil-Sellers kind of ruined it for me. I would try to grind with my party, and they would come in and "farm".

_Deliverance_

Nov 21, 2006, 11:44 AM

If RMT start up in PSU, just watch the value of meseta decline. Whatever isn't sold in shops will be stupidly expensive.

-Ryuki-

Nov 21, 2006, 11:46 AM

On 2006-11-21 08:44, _Deliverance_ wrote:
If RMT start up in PSU, just watch the value of meseta decline. Whatever isn't sold in shops will be stupidly expensive.

I wouldn't doubt that one bit. People would do just about anything for money.

Simple. Get a job. I honestly think that if you use games to make a living, that you have no life whatsoever.

_Deliverance_

Nov 21, 2006, 11:47 AM

I don't think that will work Ryuki. Ya gotta say

"IF YOU USE GAMES TO MAKE A LIVING, IMMA STAB YOU IN THE FACE!!!"

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

aceccc

Nov 21, 2006, 11:56 AM

As far as I know this is illegal and should be reported to ebay / sega ASAP.

Actually those Money-farmers DO destroy the balance of the game, like they did in WoW. Everything will get more expensive from time to time.

You should pobably watch this:

http://www.tagesschau.de/sendungen/0,1196,SPM11_VID5978054_OIT5977866_RESms256_PLYint ernal_NAV,00.html

(Its german, but you should understand what's it about)

[ This Message was edited by: aceccc on 2006-11-21 09:01 ]

Arislan

Nov 21, 2006, 12:01 PM

I would like to note that selling Meseta and items is against Sega's EULA, and as such, any links or intimations of sales taking place will quickly get this thread locked, and a warning handed out. This is only oblique references to farming and sales in general thusfar from what I've seen, so it's all good, but just make sure it stays that way for all concerned. I'm in for some good threads as much as the next guy. ^_^

RNLee

Nov 21, 2006, 12:05 PM

On 2006-11-21 08:56, aceccc wrote:
Actually those Money-farmers DO destroy the balance of the game, like they did in WoW.

Farming has ruined WoW? I hadn't noticed.

_Deliverance_

Nov 21, 2006, 12:06 PM

WoW sucked already, get with the program. ^_^lol

Carlos21

Nov 21, 2006, 12:18 PM

i dident know that selling game money and items was illegal on e-bay??? surely they should take off the listings!!! i tried to sell a BB Gun on e-bay once and it was taken straight off, lol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

if it is illegal then E-Bay and ST need to look into this and stop it now before it becomes wide spread.

everyone always ends up bringing WoW in to the topic, lol, i hate that game so much http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

-Ryuki-

Nov 21, 2006, 12:20 PM

On 2006-11-21 08:47, _Deliverance_ wrote:
I don't think that will work Ryuki. Ya gotta say

"IF YOU USE GAMES TO MAKE A LIVING, IMMA STAB YOU IN THE FACE!!!"

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

That would work, if I were a hostile, kill-hungry person.

Unfortunately, I stand for Justice, and Justice doesn't always mean death =)

Carlos21

Nov 21, 2006, 12:22 PM

if people wanna play games for a living thats there choice, id much rather play PSU than go to work, lol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

AkiraXxx

Nov 21, 2006, 12:26 PM

Its not illegal selling the meseta on ebay because you are buying the TIME it took them to get the meseta. Technically they dont even have to give you the meseta since you are buying time. Time is not something you can grab or store, but you CAN sell time. And if your stupid enough to believe that those people selling gold are legit, then you deserve to get scammed by them. Apparently one of those sellers is selling 500k meseta and has 50 in stock, thats 25 mil that these people claim to have in what less then a month of the game being out?

Bleemo

Nov 21, 2006, 12:33 PM

The easiest thing to do is to either call players "kids" or "children" for buying gaming currency, or to call the business of RMT stupid.

If you have ever played an MMORPG, you have made a friend who you enjoyed playing with and respected that has bought online gaming currency.

Yes, you have. There is no getting around it. People hide it; they're not proud of it; it's a fact of MMORPG life. I'm sure some here protesting against it has bought online currency before. How could I make such claims? The RMT business is booming. It is not only a great way to profit, but most players are willing to purchase their product. Transactions are quick, currency is cheap given if you have a job, and it reduces the time you need to put into the game dramatically. This isn't a fact, but I am fairly certain that at very least over half of an online gaming community buys gaming currency. It's pretty evident seeing as how much money RMT companies actually make.

The next time you call someone "immature," "childish," "a kid," remember that anyone is capable of becoming attracted to and buying online gaming currency. Even your closest buddy.

To the discussion of RMT: I'm a firm believer online gaming currency farmers and RMT companies themselves do not influence inflation in the game's economy, which means they do not "ruin the economy." I believe player greed is the fundamental cause of price inflation, resulting in a ruined economy. The only thing RMT does is allows more currency to be put into the average player's hands. There is, quite simply, no harm to the economy when this happens. It would be the same as if the player farmed it himself.

Since FFXI seems to be the top game to discuss the effects of RMT, I will touch on how people are mistaken that RMT ruined it's economy.

There are two reasons why people think RMT companies ruined the economy, which are:

1) Constant camping of NM's/HNM's. RMT companies virtually own these rare monsters and their drops.

2) Using FFXI's auction house, RMT's will take the items they found off of the NM's/HNM's which they overcamp and place them on the auction house for outrageous prices. The same goes for any item they put on the auction house.

Both of those theories are false.

Assessing the first theory: RMT companies in no way own these spawn points. I have heard many MANY players successfully camping, and obtaining the items off of these monsters with the load of competition, and competition consists of usually both player and farmers alike. In fact, RMT's do not even camp many of these NM's, only the few very popular ones. It's more than possible to camp these monsters and obtain their items.

Second theory: this is based off of a simple-minded assumption. Farmers don't inflate prices. It's a simple concept: RMT companies need to meet supply and demand. They will not overprice items simply because of how long it would take to sell those items. If farmers chose to make a record price for an item, it would take too long to sell simply because of undercutting, and overall price of their item. Farmers need this money quickly so they can meet their supply and demand; what would be the best way to do this? Undercutting. Farmers will indeed undercut pretty much every item they sell. It keeps money coming quickly, and guarantees a sell. This theory alone defeats the whole assumption that farmers ruin the economy. If farmers undercut, than the only ones left selling items for loads of money are the players acting on greed.

RMT's often times do players a favor by preventing the load of effort required to play the game they enjoy. Player greed puts such a strain on players, they will almost be forced to buy currency in some games. Lineage II is one of these games. I have read on numerous occasions, even on their own offical forums, that players virtually have to buy online currency in order to play due to the difficulty of obtaining money. FFXI is becoming quite similar, and I can see it becoming exactly the same in the future.

PSU's economy will not be effected by RMT's. When you see items sold for outrageous prices; think about that player and blame him, not the RMT companies.

Po-Fu

Nov 21, 2006, 12:35 PM

I'm an FFXI vet, just like many of the people here.

And I saw what RMT did to that game, and it contributed to why I did, inevitably quit.

But in this game, To be honest, you cannot compare FFXI/WoW with PSU. Apples and Oranges. Reason? In FFXI, it was incredibly tough to get any type of Gil. You either made money by drops, synthesis or hunting NMs. But a majority of the time, there were at least six people camping the same drop as you. In the same area. In PSU, that isn't the case. IF I'm looking for a drop (Like I was looking for a crea saber drop for 12 days of De Ragon runs prior to update.) I can go in, solo the mobs and the boss if I want, and just do solo runs all day. If it drops, it's mine. I don't have to compete. In FFXI, you didn't have that comfort.

I don't condone the buying or Selling of any type of Virtual media. I dispise it. But the economy in PSU will not fall prey to the same Traps that FFXI's economy did simply because the games are completely diffrent. Besides, the people who need to be reading this stuff are probably playing, or buying their meseta now. =

-Ryuki-

Nov 21, 2006, 12:36 PM

Only time will tell, whether or not PSU's economy will bomb.

AkiraXxx

Nov 21, 2006, 12:52 PM

ALL online sales of game currency hurts a game. Its illegal and unethical but RIGHT now, If I wanted, I could just go CCF and buy all that gold thats up for sale and then use the gold to buy up a majority of the good shit in most shops.

CCFing isnt really a huge problem here. Not being racist, but ccfing normally occurs in games that allow ALOT of international play amongst players. Particularly in brazil. CCFing there is as easy as opening up a pack of gum.

As long as ccfers dont make appearances in PSU, the meseta buying thing wont hurt that much. In the long run though there ARE going to be people that will see something like 500k meseta for 50$ and buy it, and it will become more frequent.

The VERY first day I played psu, I checked ebay to make sure there werent dicks already trying to mess shit up. And ebay items didnt start appearing till about the 3rd day, and even then there was 3 items up 20k meseta selling for about 49.95$.

If your SERIOUSLY considering buying meseta, Id advise this, I sell shit on ebay all the time, at the rate of meseta increasing and the price dropping on the already listed shops, youll be able to get 500k for probably 50$ in about 2 months. So wait it out. Theres nothing wrong technically with buying meseta online, but you do open yourself up to a few things.

1. A new addiction: Youll buy it once, youll buy it again, and again, and again.
2. Getting scammed/Banned
3. Critism "Some dont care, others cut themselves cause of it"
4. Enjoyment "Yes, you can spend lots and lots of money on a game and enjoy it if your having fun, but do you really want to blow 500$ bucks worth of money on something you could have got yourself in relatively the same amount of time"

Fin

Nov 21, 2006, 01:04 PM

Saying you're selling time is pure sophistry. If you were really auctioning your time on PSU people would say "I'm selling an hour of my playtime" but they're not. What you're both talking about the meseta, and a bunch of flimsy excuses doesn't change the fact that you're a filthy RMT'er. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I hope Sega takes steps to eliminate these people. I'm no economist, but a lot of meseta in the hands of people who are obviously willing to pay more than the average person means that all those rare weapons and ingredients are gonna skyrocket. The average player is going to have a rougher time making all those A/S-rank weapons because sellers aren't gonna stick to low prices when there's people willing to pay inflated prices.

RNLee

Nov 21, 2006, 01:12 PM

On 2006-11-21 10:04, Fin wrote:
Saying you're selling time is pure sophistry.

No, it's not--it's a serious current philosophical question, and increasingly a legal one, especially as Congress has recently started proceedings to look into the question of in-game revenues and whether or not they're taxable.

Personally, I take the view that I work my ass off for hours on end in these games, and I can do whatever the hell I want with the proceeds of my labor. EULAs that claim otherwise are absurdities that'll soon go the way of the dinosaur. I also realize that Sega or Blizzard or whoever has every right to ban me if I'm caught violtating the EULA, whether it's absurd or not. Them's the breaks.

AkiraXxx

Nov 21, 2006, 01:17 PM

On 2006-11-21 10:04, Fin wrote:
Saying you're selling time is pure sophistry. If you were really auctioning your time on PSU people would say "I'm selling an hour of my playtime" but they're not. What you're both talking about the meseta, and a bunch of flimsy excuses doesn't change the fact that you're a filthy RMT'er. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I hope Sega takes steps to eliminate these people. I'm no economist, but a lot of meseta in the hands of people who are obviously willing to pay more than the average person means that all those rare weapons and ingredients are gonna skyrocket. The average player is going to have a rougher time making all those A/S-rank weapons because sellers aren't gonna stick to low prices when there's people willing to pay inflated prices.

No actually thats how EVERY ebayer gets away with selling ANY game item, ANY game currency, ANY thing not made by them but aquired by them.

Its 100% illegal to say "Selling Phantasy star universe mesta" and not put "You are paying for the time it took me to get the meseta"

But its 100% legal to say. "Selling Phantasy Star Universe Meseta", and at the bottom even if the print is in arial size 1 "You are paying for the time it took me to get the meseta"

Thats how these companies that make THOUSANDS off of games can get away with it and not face a lawsuit. Like Supgold.com, they provide billions in game currency to multiple games, and they get away with ONLY because of the 3 sentence disclaimer located deep within there website lol.

Natrokos

Nov 21, 2006, 01:19 PM

I agree with the people who say this game is different from FFXI. The economy may be affected by rmt but not to the extent of other games. I rarely buy from player shops because I can go and find the items myself....In FFXI that was a luxery most people simply didn't have. Everyone can get the same items if you run the right levels on the right difficulty....If you want to rmt and make PSU a chore like FFXI be my guest...I intend to play the game and have fun making my own money. I don't really hate rmt because they are wasting their life how they want...I can't tell them what to do.

Little side note, I've been selling Moatoob furniture lately...People pay out the wazoo for that stuff because it's new.

RNLee

Nov 21, 2006, 01:20 PM

I'm no economist, but a lot of meseta in the hands of people who are obviously willing to pay more than the average person means that all those rare weapons and ingredients are gonna skyrocket. The average player is going to have a rougher time making all those A/S-rank weapons because sellers aren't gonna stick to low prices when there's people willing to pay inflated prices.

That's actually the opposite of the effect farming has on game economies: "farmers" farm rare items, as well as gold, and as more of the rares enter the marketplace, competition goes up and prices go down. And more people have the gold to get them.

*That's* the reason companies forbid real-world selling-- to absurdly simplify, Sega's got a customer projection figuring that Jane A will want items B and it will take her C meseta to get those items and D number of months to earn that meseta which brings in D*9.99 on top of the game's initial purchase price. Jane's aquiring what she wants in the game brings the day she finds another one to play a little closer, thus shrinking the subscription income for Sega.

[ This Message was edited by: RNLee on 2006-11-21 10:23 ]

Genobee

Nov 21, 2006, 01:40 PM

99 cents for 5000 mesta? are you joking? you can easily make more then 5000 mesta in one run. Wow people realy need to stop begin lazy.

Hresvelgr

Nov 21, 2006, 01:51 PM

Bleemo: Have you even played FFXI? or even End game of it? or is your whole post based on "theories" and "things you have heard" ?

I played two years from when the NA PC release and i must say that even if somethings in your post are quite accurate some things are not.

On a side note: I can see it all now: One year or two we'll have like 10mill meseta for 100$ or something in that stupid sense coming from variouse tard sites like IGXE {/sigh}

Bleemo

Nov 21, 2006, 01:59 PM

On 2006-11-21 10:51, Hresvelgr wrote:
Bleemo: Have you even played FFXI? or even End game of it? or is your whole post based on "theories" and "things you have heard" ?

I played two years from when the NA PC release and i must say that even if somethings in your post are quite accurate some things are not.

On a side note: I can see it all now: One year or two we'll have like 10mill meseta for 100$ or something in that stupid sense coming from variouse tard sites like IGXE {/sigh}

Before you begin claiming someone is wrong, first explain what and why you believe they are wrong. And yes, I have played FFXI.

PaladinRPG

Nov 21, 2006, 02:16 PM

I sincerely hope the Chinese gold farmers stay the heck away from this game...

RNLee

Nov 21, 2006, 02:21 PM

On 2006-11-21 11:16, PaladinRPG wrote:
I sincerely hope the Chinese gold farmers stay the heck away from this game...

Well, if it keeps getting the kinds of reviews it has been, that shouldn't be a problem. The Chinese farming factories only invest in *popular* games.

Mouseklip

Nov 21, 2006, 02:22 PM

Has any of you ever played a MMO? Chinese Farmers just ignore it and move on.

Edit: Also if it's on Ebay its on a small scale and only for PC.

[ This Message was edited by: Mouseklip on 2006-11-21 11:23 ]

RNLee

Nov 21, 2006, 02:28 PM

On 2006-11-21 11:22, Mouseklip wrote:
Has any of you ever played a MMO? Chinese Farmers just ignore it and move on.

Er, what?

Edit: Also if it's on Ebay its on a small scale and only for PC.

You could have gone and checked the listings for yourself--PC/PS2 sales are the majority, yeah, but there are some 360 gold sellers as well.

Hresvelgr

Nov 21, 2006, 02:30 PM

ok -_-'

Well first, It sound like you actually think that RMT in games like FFXI is a good thing? However i do agree that its the players fault that the RMT buisnies is blooming but the economy would have never had such strugles if there whas no RMTin in the begining.

Seconds. Gillseller farming may not hurt the economy that badly, but the camping part does. Like before they changed the claiming system who did you think sold those Leaping Boots, Emperors Hairpin, Ochumucho(sp?) Kote whatever etc etc, and those are just the smal pocket money ones.

Also, pre patches and pre the Treasure of Ugh't whatever its now called RMT's literaly owned the crafting scene, atleast Smithing/GoldSmithing/Bonecraft, hell i could stand in Low.Jeuno and see the tards synth Haubergeon+1, Scorpion Harness+1 and other stuff atleast four to five times a row that went for 8-15mill a pop.

When it comes to HNM's its a totaly different factor. They are there, at every pop site 24/7 .. Fafnir, Behemoth, Serket you name it and even if some of the items they get cannot be sold on sites they sell those to the LS's that failed the claim.

Look i do agree and i quote you on this one "player greed" is the bigest cause of why RMTing is doing so damn good but if you sum it all down, This problem would not exist if RMTing didnt exist.

PS: I never meant to shred your post, but you kind of made it sound like you havent played the game and wrote of stuff that your friends have told you.

Mouseklip

Nov 21, 2006, 02:36 PM

On 2006-11-21 11:28, RNLee wrote:

On 2006-11-21 11:22, Mouseklip wrote:
Has any of you ever played a MMO? Chinese Farmers just ignore it and move on.

Er, what?

Edit: Also if it's on Ebay its on a small scale and only for PC.

You could have gone and checked the listings for yourself--PC/PS2 sales are the majority, yeah, but there are some 360 gold sellers as well.

How could you sell meseta on 360 you would have to give someone a gamertag for them to access it or give it to them in game and no one trusts anyone with their money. It doesnt work think of it.

RNLee

Nov 21, 2006, 02:39 PM

On 2006-11-21 11:36, Mouseklip wrote:
How could you sell meseta on 360

The same way as on any other game with no internal email system--you use PayPal or whatever to buy the gold/item, you make arrangements via email or whatever to meet in game, you meet the person, you give them nothing, they give you the game items you paid for. It's like buying anything else online.

you would have to give someone a gamertag for them to access it or give it to them in game and no one trusts anyone with their money. It doesnt work think of it.

What, trading doesn't work on the 360?

I'm still wondering what you meant when you said Chinese farmers stayed away from MMOs.

[ This Message was edited by: RNLee on 2006-11-21 11:41 ]

Witchblade56

Nov 21, 2006, 02:40 PM

The ingame economy hinges on a number of things. All of which were stated above.

You have to wonder though; the average day i net anywhere around 10-20k in meseta. This is farming/exping with friends. I have been able to raise my own PM and craft my own b rank weapons [will be starting on 5 stars soon]. If people applied themselves more to whats in the game currently they'd be less inclined to use "Quick fix" methods to achieve the end. The process of how to get to the end is part of the means imo. This is what I like to call the "Burger King" syndrome. "I want it my way RIGHT away!" lol@that.

This is a prevailing attitude in FFXI. The biggest problem with FFXI is that none of the NMs are instanced. The RMT have used and still do use thrid party programming to claim NMs. If any of you have ever gotten to end game in FFXI you know that ullikummi [a notorious monster that drops a much desired pop item] camp is overrun by RMT. RMT monopolize that NM or do their best to keep it that way so that people are forced to buy the pop item from their bazaars. In PSU everything in the game is instanced. You can farm with or without friends to your hearts content for crafting items, rare item drops off rappies and other NMs that may spawn in your room. No competition for NMs from RMT. This is a huge draw for me. I also like that you can set items like rares to random [no bickering about who gets what] and normal items to order. People joining my room have no qualms because we always hangout with one another.

There are alot of innovative ideas that make PSU attractive over FFXI. I still love FFXI and participate in linkshell events to help friends get items etc. The hardest thing to do in FFXI was the farming for gil. Farm drops of whatever mobs => ah then hope it sells in a reasonable amount of time before it gets kicked back to you [thus costing you more to re-auction it again at the ah].

Anywho this is just my 0.02

lavosmanx

Nov 21, 2006, 04:40 PM

I know one thing, Square-Enix is taking steps to eliminating RMTers on FFXI by assembling a strike force against these kinds of people. However it may not be bad for the economy technically, I'm against it though. In guild wars, the game economy can be easily influinced. I remember my farming got killed because of a degrade in price which sucks big time.

RNLee

Nov 21, 2006, 05:03 PM

On 2006-11-21 13:40, lavosmanx wrote:
I remember my farming got killed because of a degrade in price which sucks big time.

So...you're against farming because it hampers your ability to farm?

Well, at least you're honest.

jarek99

Nov 21, 2006, 05:09 PM

All of the sales for meseta are for the PS2/PC version. Looks like theres yet another reason to play on 360...

RNLee

Nov 21, 2006, 05:16 PM

On 2006-11-21 14:09, jarek99 wrote:
All of the sales for meseta are for the PS2/PC version. Looks like theres yet another reason to play on 360...

One of the sellers currently has meseta for the 360. More will undoubtably follow.

ZiG

Nov 21, 2006, 05:21 PM

RMT hurts the economy, and it hurts it bad. Some of you don't seem to see why.

It works the same way in real life:
A flood of money makes spending easier.

This is what I mean:
Take a sought-after item, that goes for, say, 20k. Now, right now, an item going for 20k in PSU is a hefty chunk. No one goes around throwing away 20k in a player shop unless they really want the item (the 20k being a large sum is purely subjective, you make have enough to call this a trivial amount). The reason this 20k is slightly difficult to part with on a whim is that you worked for it, you know how long it took to make it, and you know how long it will take to make another 20k.

Enter RMT:
Now you can get that 20k, and more, with a couple keystrokes. This loosens your wallet, and now you're alright with even paying 25, or 30k for that same item, just because the only person selling it is overpricing, whereas before, you would say "fuck that" and wait until you found a cheaper one.

Now, said store owner sold you the item for 30k. He/she will now make 30k the normal price for that item. Other shop owners (not all, and thank you to the ones that hold steadfast) see that THEY can sell the same item for 30k, and lo, all their prices rise. but this isn't a problem, because Meseta is only a few keystrokes away. Lather, rinse, repeat. Now that 20k item is 50k, 100k... Because people forgot how much time it took to get that money.

Enter new players:
They almost HAVE to buy meseta off E-bay. Why? Because it would take them weeks to save up enough money to buy the now overpriced items. Thus the cycle continues.

This happens in every MMO that money has any value in, and I implore you all to, not necessarily fight this, because you can't, but keep your head about you and work for your meseta. Because what good is more meseta when prices are rising just as fast?

Yes, buying Meseta hurts the economy.

Bleemo

Nov 21, 2006, 05:51 PM

On 2006-11-21 14:21, ZiG wrote:
RMT hurts the economy, and it hurts it bad. Some of you don't seem to see why.

It works the same way in real life:
A flood of money makes spending easier.

This is what I mean:
Take a sought-after item, that goes for, say, 20k. Now, right now, an item going for 20k in PSU is a hefty chunk. No one goes around throwing away 20k in a player shop unless they really want the item (the 20k being a large sum is purely subjective, you make have enough to call this a trivial amount). The reason this 20k is slightly difficult to part with on a whim is that you worked for it, you know how long it took to make it, and you know how long it will take to make another 20k.

Enter RMT:
Now you can get that 20k, and more, with a couple keystrokes. This loosens your wallet, and now you're alright with even paying 25, or 30k for that same item, just because the only person selling it is overpricing, whereas before, you would say "fuck that" and wait until you found a cheaper one.

Now, said store owner sold you the item for 30k. He/she will now make 30k the normal price for that item. Other shop owners (not all, and thank you to the ones that hold steadfast) see that THEY can sell the same item for 30k, and lo, all their prices rise. but this isn't a problem, because Meseta is only a few keystrokes away. Lather, rinse, repeat. Now that 20k item is 50k, 100k... Because people forgot how much time it took to get that money.

Enter new players:
They almost HAVE to buy meseta off E-bay. Why? Because it would take them weeks to save up enough money to buy the now overpriced items. Thus the cycle continues.

This happens in every MMO that money has any value in, and I implore you all to, not necessarily fight this, because you can't, but keep your head about you and work for your meseta. Because what good is more meseta when prices are rising just as fast?

Yes, buying Meseta hurts the economy.

This theory is flawed.

It's far too small scale to insist that a single player or group of player's decision to blow their money on something overpriced, and somehow that will inflate the entire game's economy.

First mistake is the assumption that even when players buy gaming currency, they won't conserve and try to save that money by looking for cheaper priced items, or just avoiding overpriced items entirely.

Second mistake is to assume that players who do not buy gaming currency don't already do this.

Third mistake is not taking into consideration the scale of gaming currency usually purchased. What are they buying the money for, and how much will they buy? Usually when players buy gaming currency, they already know what they intend to spend it on. By taking the first mistake into account, it would be reasonable to assume that sometimes players won't have bought enough money to purchase overpriced items.

ZiG

Nov 21, 2006, 05:53 PM

1.) It isn't a theory.
2.) I've seen it with my own eyes on every single MMO I've played.

You think RMTers come in groups of 10? 20? Maybe even 100? If so, yeah, things are fine.

When 1 RMT group realizes success, many more follow.

Bleemo

Nov 21, 2006, 05:57 PM

On 2006-11-21 14:53, ZiG wrote:
1.) It isn't a theory.
2.) I've seen it with my own eyes on every single MMO I've played.

You think RMTers come in groups of 10? 20? Maybe even 100? If so, yeah, things are fine.

When 1 RMT group realizes success, many more follow.

It's a theory.

I don't care what you think you've seen, you don't have any facts. None of us have any true facts. The only thing we can do is delve into the situation and logically assess it based on what we perceive; create theories.

And I have absolutely no idea what you mean by that last statement.

Bleemo

Nov 21, 2006, 06:05 PM

On 2006-11-21 15:05, ZiG wrote:
I have plenty of facts. As I said "2.) I've seen it with my own eyes on every single MMO I've played."

Lol.

ZiG

Nov 21, 2006, 06:05 PM

I have plenty of facts. As I said "2.) I've seen it with my own eyes on every single MMO I've played."

But there'll be naysayers to every "theory", and I'm saying "nay" right back at them.

Look, I hope it doesn't happen, and it may not, just like you said. This game isn't nearly as big as the others, and it has that going for it. But to err on the side of caution is not to err at all.

[ This Message was edited by: ZiG on 2006-11-21 15:07 ]

ZiG

Nov 21, 2006, 06:08 PM

On 2006-11-21 15:05, Bleemo wrote:

On 2006-11-21 15:05, ZiG wrote:
I have plenty of facts. As I said "2.) I've seen it with my own eyes on every single MMO I've played."

Lol.

Score one for intelligent debate!

Typhoeus

Nov 21, 2006, 06:27 PM

You know, I read through all 6 pages of this thread, and with all the arguing we are forgetting the real question to ask here.

HOW DO YOU MAKE 300k IN ONE DAY?

On 2006-11-21 05:24, Zabot wrote:
i can make 300k in one day easy

No one would have to buy eBay meseta ever again. ...I think <.<

Witchblade56

Nov 21, 2006, 06:34 PM

Farming rank A missions can net you upwards of 20-30k... well thats in one 2-3 hour sitting. If you farm A rank missions contiually for say one 8 hour session you could net 75-80k ill bet or maybe a bit more. 100k is possible if yo udo it for 12 hours. 300k would be like get up at 6 am and farm non-stop til like.... 3 am the following morning?

Inspektahdek

Nov 21, 2006, 06:35 PM

Pentence

Nov 21, 2006, 06:47 PM

On 2006-11-21 09:20, RyukiZero wrote:

On 2006-11-21 08:47, _Deliverance_ wrote:
I don't think that will work Ryuki. Ya gotta say

"IF YOU USE GAMES TO MAKE A LIVING, IMMA STAB YOU IN THE FACE!!!"

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

That would work, if I were a hostile, kill-hungry person.

Unfortunately, I stand for Justice, and Justice doesn't always mean death =)

*kicks rock* awwwww nuts......

Remedy

Nov 21, 2006, 09:05 PM

On 2006-11-21 10:40, Genobee wrote:
99 cents for 5000 mesta? are you joking? you can easily make more then 5000 mesta in one run. Wow people realy need to stop begin lazy.

I have a dollar and six cents in my Paypal account. What the hell else am I going to do with it? XD

Eternal_Drake

Nov 21, 2006, 09:29 PM

Wow 20$ for only 50k meseta, I might sell some hehehe.

Bleemo

Nov 22, 2006, 06:19 AM

On 2006-11-22 03:14, Broomop-UK wrote:
im selling 500k for $100

LOL

Even though how blatantly illegal your methods are; what a lovely income of money.

Kudos.

Carlos21

Nov 22, 2006, 06:49 AM

can u hack money online???? i just watched your video on U-Tube where u go through walls and stuff??? is it possible to do all that stuff on 360???

RNLee

Nov 22, 2006, 10:55 AM

On 2006-11-21 14:57, Bleemo wrote:
It's a theory.

I don't care what you think you've seen, you don't have any facts.

The theory's also in opposition to what I and others have observed in other games: farming, and factory farming in particular, makes rares more common and brings prices *down.* Which is why game companies and in-game sellers who don't farm don't like it.

Blenjar

Nov 22, 2006, 11:05 AM

Bah I'll buy it...well wtf...dude i make $ to spend $, wat can I say? im well equiped

-- Blen

Bleemo

Nov 22, 2006, 11:47 AM

On 2006-11-22 07:55, RNLee wrote:

On 2006-11-21 14:57, Bleemo wrote:
It's a theory.

I don't care what you think you've seen, you don't have any facts.

The theory's also in opposition to what I and others have observed in other games: farming, and factory farming in particular, makes rares more common and brings prices *down.* Which is why game companies and in-game sellers who don't farm don't like it.

Most people usually take a simple minded view toward RMT and don't bother to try to understand the mechanics behind it, because it's a quick way of obtaining what others themselves usually have to work for. People simply don't like it and assume automatically that it does something to the economy, making all sorts of accusations and claims.

Nothing really damages RMT sales. Nothing. The system in itself is legit. No matter what game companies do, unless the farmer is breaking some sort of rule himself, he cannot get banned or kicked, and they cannot do anything about the RMT companies selling their game's currency. It is in the boundaries of the law and is virtually untraceable using the EULA.

And to add to this argument: I have not seen one person really give a productive, believable counter argument or theory that would logically explain why RMT hurts the economy as most claim. Again: I don't care what anyone thinks they have seen, unless you can give a logical explanation as to why RMT hurts the economy that does not have any flaws, then don't bother claiming what you've "seen" is correct.

Maskim

Nov 22, 2006, 11:53 AM

Not that I cared for what a certain someone had to say here earlier, but yay, censorship. <-- Dripping with sarcasm.

[ This Message was edited by: Maskim on 2006-11-22 08:54 ]

RNLee

Nov 22, 2006, 11:55 AM

On 2006-11-22 08:47, Bleemo wrote:
Most people usually take a simple minded view toward RMT and don't bother to try to understand the mechanics behind it, because it's a quick way of obtaining what others themselves usually have to work for. People simply don't like it and assume automatically that it does something to the economy, making all sorts of accusations and claims.

What's really amusing about those people is that they never understand the key difference between game economies and real life ones: unlimited resources and creation of wealth. Every item or piece of cash you pick up in a game is created on the spot and added to the economy, which is why game economies are always in a constant state of inflation/devaluation, and would be even without organized farming.

Turambar

Nov 22, 2006, 12:07 PM

Hmm, Bleemo, it seems you argue that RMTs are mere a means of achieveing an end that is the fullfilment of human greed. Thus, the removement of ends is a greater concern than the removal of the means.

While that is true, the means never-the-less contributes to the ends. The removal of the means would by no means remove the ends as in this case, the ends have many means. However you cannot say that the removal of this particular means (RMT) would not damage the ability to fullfill the ends (human greed) to a great extent.

In lamen's terms, remove RMTs and human greed is suddenly much harder to fullfill, and all the stuff that you argue human greed is the cause of in a game would be lessened.

In other news, yes, it is legal to buy time. It sounds absolutely idiotic, but its a techincal and a loophole. The ethics of it is a wholly different issue, but the legality of it stands.

Bleemo

Nov 22, 2006, 12:44 PM

On 2006-11-22 09:07, Turambar wrote:
Hmm, Bleemo, it seems you argue that RMTs are mere a means of achieveing an end that is the fullfilment of human greed. Thus, the removement of ends is a greater concern than the removal of the means.

While that is true, the means never-the-less contributes to the ends. The removal of the means would by no means remove the ends as in this case, the ends have many means. However you cannot say that the removal of this particular means (RMT) would not damage the ability to fullfill the ends (human greed) to a great extent.

In lamen's terms, remove RMTs and human greed is suddenly much harder to fullfill, and all the stuff that you argue human greed is the cause of in a game would be lessened.

In other news, yes, it is legal to buy time. It sounds absolutely idiotic, but its a techincal and a loophole. The ethics of it is a wholly different issue, but the legality of it stands.

The issue I see is this:

How far can greed stretch until it becomes actual need?

Using FFXI as an example: it can take literally months to farm for a piece of equipment that many argue is mandatory for your class. The price of these items are by no means outside of outrageous. People like to argue that RMT's are at fault for these prices, but those same people have never given a logically sound reason as to why that is so. I firmly believe player greed inflated those prices and have given the reason for my beliefs; using those beliefs, it's clear that it is far from unreasonable or greedy to purchase money to buy these items. It's a job that takes utter work for months to get these items when they're not even that rare. This is a reason that I believe RMT's help the average player, especially the casual players.

In my opinion, the removal of RMT's, especially now, would make items almost unbuyable for a lot of players, but the damaged economy would still remain. Many would argue that prices will drop because there is less currency in the system; I protest that notion. For prices to be affected by RMT's suddenly disappearing would require every player, or most players to have used RMT's to buy their items off the auction house. Even how popular RMT's are, many people still do obtain their money legitimately and buy items using it off of the auction house.

Anyway, as it stands now, RMT's are required in some games to make players happy. Lineage II is certainly one of them, and FFXI is slowly becoming one.

ZiG

Nov 22, 2006, 07:23 PM

On 2006-11-22 09:44, Bleemo wrote

In my opinion, the removal of RMT's, especially now, would make items almost unbuyable for a lot of players, but the damaged economy would still remain. Many would argue that prices will drop because there is less currency in the system; I protest that notion. For prices to be affected by RMT's suddenly disappearing would require every player, or most players to have used RMT's to buy their items off the auction house. Even how popular RMT's are, many people still do obtain their money legitimately and buy items using it off of the auction house.

Read up everyone, because this is exactly what my point was. RMT = irreversable damage.

But I guess Bleemo has never had to deal with this, or is simply arguing for argument's sake. Either way, nothing more I can say.

HiKeRI

Nov 22, 2006, 07:41 PM

The game with or without RMT the economy will still get screwed up by greedy players that sells stuff for alot, the RMT in my opinion its nothing that to matter, i knew a player around Cerberus that needed to sell Gil in order to live and maintain his child and family, once he told me that i kindof felt how lame i was by talking stuff about people who do this, he didnt get millions either.. he camped for days for just one item (Ochies Kote) for a few bucks (50-300) and yes thats little, i always hanged around with them learning about them and came to a conclusion that there just as normal as i am or any of us, i came up and told him to find a job his reply was (He couldnt work because he was not accepted anywhere from his town and pay was too little aswell) Thats a reason why he went on the RMT bussiness.

Bleemo

Nov 22, 2006, 07:43 PM

On 2006-11-22 16:23, ZiG wrote:

On 2006-11-22 09:44, Bleemo wrote

In my opinion, the removal of RMT's, especially now, would make items almost unbuyable for a lot of players, but the damaged economy would still remain. Many would argue that prices will drop because there is less currency in the system; I protest that notion. For prices to be affected by RMT's suddenly disappearing would require every player, or most players to have used RMT's to buy their items off the auction house. Even how popular RMT's are, many people still do obtain their money legitimately and buy items using it off of the auction house.

Read up everyone, because this is exactly what my point was. RMT = irreversable damage.

But I guess Bleemo has never had to deal with this, or is simply arguing for argument's sake. Either way, nothing more I can say.

Lol.

Reading comprehension?

I never once stated RMT's caused that damage in the first place. Because: they didn't!

ZiG

Nov 22, 2006, 07:50 PM

Nevermind. Useless to continue.

It's like how potheads and their friends are the only people that think pot is good for you.

[ This Message was edited by: ZiG on 2006-11-22 16:52 ]

Bleemo

Nov 22, 2006, 07:53 PM

On 2006-11-22 16:50, ZiG wrote:

On 2006-11-22 16:41, HiKeRI wrote:
The game with or without RMT the economy will still get screwed up by greedy players that sells stuff for alot, the RMT in my opinion its nothing that to matter, i knew a player around Cerberus that needed to sell Gil in order to live and maintain his child and family, once he told me that i kindof felt how lame i was by talking stuff about people who do this, he didnt get millions either.. he camped for days for just one item (Ochies Kote) for a few bucks (50-300) and yes thats little, i always hanged around with them learning about them and came to a conclusion that there just as normal as i am or any of us, i came up and told him to find a job his reply was (He couldnt work because he was not accepted anywhere from his town and pay was too little aswell) Thats a reason why he went on the RMT bussiness.

Cry me a river, and on your way to the river, count how many "Now Hiring" signs you see, and give that info to the one feeding you the sob story.

You have just proven yourself an utter moron.

ZiG

Nov 22, 2006, 07:59 PM

No more than you calling someone a moron on the internet^^

Also, that post was edited and removed by me, after considering that it was tactless. Something that, maybe, you should look into.

[ This Message was edited by: ZiG on 2006-11-22 17:00 ]

Genobee

Nov 22, 2006, 08:03 PM

On 2006-11-21 15:27, Typhoeus wrote:
You know, I read through all 6 pages of this thread, and with all the arguing we are forgetting the real question to ask here.

HOW DO YOU MAKE 300k IN ONE DAY?

On 2006-11-21 05:24, Zabot wrote:
i can make 300k in one day easy

No one would have to buy eBay meseta ever again. ...I think <.<

What the hell would you need 300k for? to look at it?

Maskim

Nov 22, 2006, 11:09 PM

On 2006-11-22 17:03, Genobee wrote:

What the hell would you need 300k for? to look at it?

I guarantee we'd find something.

HiKeRI

Nov 23, 2006, 12:29 AM

On 2006-11-22 16:53, Bleemo wrote:

On 2006-11-22 16:50, ZiG wrote:

On 2006-11-22 16:41, HiKeRI wrote:
The game with or without RMT the economy will still get screwed up by greedy players that sells stuff for alot, the RMT in my opinion its nothing that to matter, i knew a player around Cerberus that needed to sell Gil in order to live and maintain his child and family, once he told me that i kindof felt how lame i was by talking stuff about people who do this, he didnt get millions either.. he camped for days for just one item (Ochies Kote) for a few bucks (50-300) and yes thats little, i always hanged around with them learning about them and came to a conclusion that there just as normal as i am or any of us, i came up and told him to find a job his reply was (He couldnt work because he was not accepted anywhere from his town and pay was too little aswell) Thats a reason why he went on the RMT bussiness.

Cry me a river, and on your way to the river, count how many "Now Hiring" signs you see, and give that info to the one feeding you the sob story.

You have just proven yourself an utter moron.

Moron? Are you a retard? Overall the RMT are smart to get easy money for having fun, people that buy it fair or no who really cares? If they have money to spare it'll not matter to them, on the other place there are many idiots outthere that will find some sort of new weapon and think its the best thing ever then it'll be overpriced because of a normal player, with or without RMT the game is the same thing Idiot, on FFXI it was the same thing, what the RMT did is just follow it while the people kept maxing up the price of the items, if your whining about the RMT just go kill yourself, this is life, and some people try there best to live in it retard (I gave you the story to analize that.. if you were smart enough).

ZiG

Nov 23, 2006, 12:34 AM

Lol... I guess I should have just left the post the way it is, instead of trying to stay civil. God knows no one else can.

AkiraXxx

Nov 23, 2006, 12:57 AM

Phantasy Star Universe, PSU 500K Meseta, PC/PS2, US/EU
Instant delivery, 24 hour online service Item number: 200049285111

Buy It Now price: US $80.00

Like i said, give it another month or 2 and you will be able to buy meseta for chump change. 500k for 80$ lol.

hucast21

Nov 23, 2006, 01:05 AM

On 2006-11-22 21:29, HiKeRI wrote:

Moron? Are you a retard? Overall the RMT are smart to get easy money for having fun, people that buy it fair or no who really cares? If they have money to spare it'll not matter to them, on the other place there are many idiots outthere that will find some sort of new weapon and think its the best thing ever then it'll be overpriced because of a normal player, with or without RMT the game is the same thing Idiot, on FFXI it was the same thing, what the RMT did is just follow it while the people kept maxing up the price of the items, if your whining about the RMT just go kill yourself, this is life, and some people try there best to live in it retard (I gave you the story to analize that.. if you were smart enough).

Getting emo and angry on the internets = retard

Bleemo

Nov 23, 2006, 04:25 AM

On 2006-11-22 21:29, HiKeRI wrote:
Moron? Are you a retard? Overall the RMT are smart to get easy money for having fun, people that buy it fair or no who really cares? If they have money to spare it'll not matter to them, on the other place there are many idiots outthere that will find some sort of new weapon and think its the best thing ever then it'll be overpriced because of a normal player, with or without RMT the game is the same thing Idiot, on FFXI it was the same thing, what the RMT did is just follow it while the people kept maxing up the price of the items, if your whining about the RMT just go kill yourself, this is life, and some people try there best to live in it retard (I gave you the story to analize that.. if you were smart enough).

Not sure where you didn't notice, but my little post was directed toward ZiG. Not you. I was calling him the moron for his response to your story.

ZiG

Nov 23, 2006, 04:28 AM

I'm pretty sure his post was directed at me, too. He used yours as a quote because I changed mine, to avoid this kind of thing.

AlphaMinotaux

Nov 23, 2006, 04:37 AM

So whats the cheapest some1 has found for Meseta? im in the market for a good amount to supply my feedings of my PM.

-Shimarisu-

Nov 23, 2006, 05:49 AM

Hi, this meseta is being sold by haxxors FYI.

Here's a great cheat for PSU.

1. Find broomop on eBay. I'm sure all you peeps who know who he is can do this easily.

2. Buy his meseta.

3. Pay him on Paypal.

4. Meet him in game, laugh in his face. Note down the ID no.

5. Report him to Sega.

6. Chargeback on Paypal under "goods not recieved" or "goods not as described." Either will work and is a money back guarantee.

As a seller on eBay/Paypal of 6 years, I know for a fact that if a seller doesn't send goods, ie. TANGIBLE ones by tracked means, if a complaint is made the seller is fucked. You'll get your money back, or at least, you will if he left it in his account. If he did not, there's always a chargeback on your credit card to fall back on.

But then again, even if he DOES remove all his money and scarper, he fucked himself with all those 99 cent dealies people are saying he has up. I'm sure you can donate 99 cents to the cause of having him removed from PSU/Paypal. He can live on McDonalds hamburgers for at least the next month on the fundings!

Did I say that if 10% of his transactions receive complaints, Paypal will ban him for life? I'd like to see him hack his way out of that one.

OH GOD I HOPE I DO NOT GET BANNED FOR REVEALING THIS CHEAT.

Tsudori

Nov 23, 2006, 05:50 AM

I don't care how poor you are, there is no way in hell im spendin my hard earned cash for some virtual pennies, thats just dumb!

-Shimarisu-

Nov 23, 2006, 05:51 AM

Eh I think I will, 99 cents seems like a GREAT deal.

Bleemo

Nov 23, 2006, 05:55 AM

Saphion

Nov 23, 2006, 05:59 AM

Are you going to do the eBay thing too, Shimarisu?

If you are, and for revealing this alone, you deserve to be promoted to state of Lesser Deity.

*salutes*

-Shimarisu-

Nov 23, 2006, 06:10 AM

Yeah I am, getting a new UK account to nab him on. I'll do the 99 cent dealie just so people don't suspect me of keeping the cash. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Carlos21

Nov 23, 2006, 07:20 AM

poor old broomop. everyone seems to hate that guy http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Carlos21

Nov 23, 2006, 07:28 AM

QUOTE:

-Shimarisu-

It's just another way of making money, who the hell cares, if people want to sell or buy in-game items for whatever reason good luck to 'em.

It really is harmless as long as the in-game cash isn't acquired via hacking, and I don't think it's particularly stupid to buy it either. Well maybe, at that price. I mean that is pretty nuts, also I doubt in-game items on the NA version are really worth real world cash as it's a pretty obscure title.

Often it ain't kids who buy items with real cash. It's adults with good paying jobs and not as much time to play who think little of spending money to get a better gaming experience. I really do not give a fuck, let people live how they want.

Why the sudden change of heart????

-Shimarisu-

Nov 23, 2006, 07:33 AM

Uh, cause I found out it was hacked?

DUH!

Carlos21

Nov 23, 2006, 07:35 AM

oh right, i sorta skippid a few pages http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif i dident think money could be hacked yet??? or is it all down to that broomop dude ??

Katrina

Nov 23, 2006, 08:03 AM

The only problem is he's a PSOWorld member, and might see this coming. (I did a member search just for laughs, and there's 8 Broomob variations listed as members http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Oh noes!!!)

That would be a slick way to nab meseta cheaters though, or at least make them a little paranoid about peddling it.

I don't have much of an issue with ppl that play legit and work for meseta or items that sell, not my thing, but whatever floats your boat.

I DO have a problem with cheaters and hackers, and smile everytime one is caught.

Collar

Nov 23, 2006, 09:11 AM

On 2006-11-23 02:49, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Hi, this meseta is being sold by haxxors FYI.

Here's a great cheat for PSU.

1. Find broomop on eBay. I'm sure all you peeps who know who he is can do this easily.

2. Buy his meseta.

3. Pay him on Paypal.

4. Meet him in game, laugh in his face. Note down the ID no.

5. Report him to Sega.

6. Chargeback on Paypal under "goods not recieved" or "goods not as described." Either will work and is a money back guarantee.

As a seller on eBay/Paypal of 6 years, I know for a fact that if a seller doesn't send goods, ie. TANGIBLE ones by tracked means, if a complaint is made the seller is fucked. You'll get your money back, or at least, you will if he left it in his account. If he did not, there's always a chargeback on your credit card to fall back on.

But then again, even if he DOES remove all his money and scarper, he fucked himself with all those 99 cent dealies people are saying he has up. I'm sure you can donate 99 cents to the cause of having him removed from PSU/Paypal. He can live on McDonalds hamburgers for at least the next month on the fundings!

Did I say that if 10% of his transactions receive complaints, Paypal will ban him for life? I'd like to see him hack his way out of that one.

OH GOD I HOPE I DO NOT GET BANNED FOR REVEALING THIS CHEAT.

"Question for you, since you have quite a deal more experience with this than I - does PayPal ban by name and account number, or just by credit card? Because if the rumors are true about how fast this guy goes through accounts that aren't his, plus the eBay selling dealio, I'm sure he knows by now how to rotate credit cards.

I would love to help you in your cause, however, unfortunately, another game I play quite often has recently had its security compromised, that of which did contain both credit-card, as well as real life information, on all of its users. Needless to say, I'm going through a rotational on my CCs. It was encrypted data, yes, but nonetheless, better safe than sorry.

Heh. Apparently a MD5 salt isn't all that and a bag of chips when it comes to the cash concerns of several hundred thousand players.

Anyway, I'm all for cutting this guy down early before it, (if ever), becomes a hobby that goes above and beyond being anything more than a video game skidiot to something as extreme as what I mentioned above. Though, I highly doubt he has any merit that would warrant him a few rounds with the big boys to begin with.

[ This Message was edited by: Collar on 2006-11-23 06:11 ]

AkiraXxx

Nov 23, 2006, 09:25 AM

On 2006-11-23 02:49, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Hi, this meseta is being sold by haxxors FYI.

Here's a great cheat for PSU.

1. Find broomop on eBay. I'm sure all you peeps who know who he is can do this easily.

2. Buy his meseta.

3. Pay him on Paypal.

4. Meet him in game, laugh in his face. Note down the ID no.

5. Report him to Sega.

6. Chargeback on Paypal under "goods not recieved" or "goods not as described." Either will work and is a money back guarantee.

As a seller on eBay/Paypal of 6 years, I know for a fact that if a seller doesn't send goods, ie. TANGIBLE ones by tracked means, if a complaint is made the seller is fucked. You'll get your money back, or at least, you will if he left it in his account. If he did not, there's always a chargeback on your credit card to fall back on.

But then again, even if he DOES remove all his money and scarper, he fucked himself with all those 99 cent dealies people are saying he has up. I'm sure you can donate 99 cents to the cause of having him removed from PSU/Paypal. He can live on McDonalds hamburgers for at least the next month on the fundings!

Did I say that if 10% of his transactions receive complaints, Paypal will ban him for life? I'd like to see him hack his way out of that one.

OH GOD I HOPE I DO NOT GET BANNED FOR REVEALING THIS CHEAT.

Ebayer for 6 years? Digital DATA is not tangible anymore. Just thought you should know. Also Western Union no longer accepts money transfers as sales to brazil,korea,china,japan and a few other areas outside the US due to digital data purchases and ccf.
And even IF you get banned on paypal, thats what CCFing is for, theres no such thing as a perma ban from ebay or paypal.

Charge backs only work on certain amounts of money under certain circumstances. If you do a charge back on your bank, through a paypal transaction, your paypal account will go negative and you will have to file a claim with them to get your paypal account out of negative. If you dont your account will be temp banned.

-Shimarisu-

Nov 23, 2006, 10:46 AM

Digital data is not tangible but this also means it isn't covered by Paypal. It is a major risk to sell anyting without a tracking number using their service.

I've been all over the ins and outs of this before. You can sell it as a SERVICE on Paypal, rather than a PRODUCT. Vut Paypal's automated service will still take the money clean out of your account if anyone complains, and if you ring them all they will advise is "Yes you need a tracking number. No we would advise not to sell non tangible items."

People have been really fucked by this in the past. Legit people.

Broomop is not legit, so fuck him.

It is really, really hard to get another Paypal account. If you are banned from Paypal, they will ban people who logged in the same COMPUTER as you did at any point. They will ban paypal accounts of your relatives. They will flag your address.

Trust me I know all about the ins and outs of paypal, because I sell low value goods internationally. I do not forxce tracking as people then wouldn't buy. I lose a lot of money a year to Paypal complaints, which before they ever become a credit card chargeback are acted on by Paypal by RETURNING MONEY TO THE CUSTOMER. I assume some of these people are honest, but we both know the postal service from Japan is not THAT crap.

I deal with it, absorb it, but *without* a credit card chargeback being initiated Paypal will just hand money right back to the customer if you lack tracking details.

This works, and it's why you should NEVER use paypal on non-tangible goods or services.

Look here for details of people, both honest and dishonest, who found themselves lacking a Paypal account and being severly unable to get another.

http://www.paypalsucks.com

Really Paypal is a sucky company, but it's the only one out there right now. And christ, they need competition.