So let me get this straight (Forces & Resta)

[FenixStryk]

Today I was doing Agata RELICS A runs with a Force, a Ranger, and 2 other Hunters. During the runs, my health would often reach yellow before said Force would even consider casting Resta, and he would also rarely use Reserver for Status Effects like sleep.

I had to politely ask the guy for a good 20 to 30 seconds before he helped me out in any way or form. (it should be noted that I asked for heals only when my health was below 50%)

Normally I wouldn't mind repeating myself the first couple of times, but I'd have to badger the guy EVERY time I needed a heal. This went on for about an hour's worth of runs, for Chrissakes!

How long does it take someone to realise that when someone types "resta plz" (on a 360, no less) and confirms said request with voice chat lines such as "Hey, can you heal me, bro?", that they need Resta? I'd even go so far as to run right next to the guy so he could heal me.

I had to ask myself, why does he take so long to heal me? My health would often get dangerously low (the lowest was 8 HP, an error on my part as well as his, despite me having Scape Dolls) before he reacted.

With all of this in mind, I question the Force about this. The moment I say that the Force should heal more often, the entire party gangs up on me about how I should be able to take care of myself, that 8 HP is too low to still ask for Resta, how rude it was for me to ask, and why I shouldn't be in their squad... before promptly booting me.

I'd imagine an hour of even the nicest requests being repeated over and over would more than likely come off as arrogant, so in a way I undertsnd the boot. However, shouldn't one assume that if it's being asked so often, they should A) do it, or B) explain why they won't? I would understand if the Force told me he wouldn't heal often due to leveling attacks or not having the willpower to watch HP bars, but during this event, he did not verbalize such a view. This is what got me the most, IMHO.
_____ _ _

I know a Hunter should be able to take care of himself, and I can, since I always have at least 2 Scape Dolls and a multitude of Dimates and Trimates. However, wasting items when a Force is present seems foolish at best. Shouldn't Forces be on the ball for this type of thing? It's their job!

I don't understand why a Force isn't fully capable of keeping his party alive, or why he sees such a thing as an aggravating chore. Healing teammates is not only faster than relying on 'mates, it saves money...

...It costs about 5 meseta per Resta to heal an entire party (if it's well-placed). It costs about 150 meseta per Trimate from player shops. Why should I spend an extra 145 meseta to get myself healed when Resta is so readily available?

All I'm asking is for Forces to heal once they see more than one person at or below 50% HP.
One shouldn't need to remind them, both vocally and verbally, multiple times, on many occasions, just to get a heal or a stat fix?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FenixStryk on 2006-11-25 20:34 ]</font>

[VelosofLight]

When I play Force, I Resta as much as possible for TECHNIC leveling up. The better my Resta is, the better I can solo, right? Not to mention the easier it'll be to find a party.

But I'm PC. I still think 360 players are mostly useless. No offense. I said mostly.

[Triple_S]

Asking for a heal every five seconds every time you get hit is stupid. Asking for a heal when the party is getting an ass-whooping is not. You, my friend, are smart.

[ThunderChao]

I think he should have healed you without so many requests. And the party shouldn't have booted you.

[ThunderChao]

I think he should have healed you without so many requests. And the party shouldn't have booted you.

[Dontais]

Myself being a force I tend to heal when I see a members hp drop to yellowish . So I haft to say he should of healed you more without the request and I do agree the party shouldn't of boot you.

[Triple_S]

I just know someone is going to vote for The Force just to be an ass.

[Dragon_Knight]

Well I can understand how you feel...I'm a support FO. My primary duty is to heal and recover and secondaraly I tag monsters to get that exp. I couldn't stand just wasting all my PP on doing average damage and MAYBE killing one spawn of monsters in 1 hajirod. I don't think you're wrong especialy if you manage to stay in the yellow for quite a bit of time and not die. I don't know many people capable of doing that.

Why they booted you I can't figure out...maybe they thought you were whining or something? I've never been too happy with the X box crowd myself....

[drmcst45]

I'll resta as long you don't bitch about or sit there like a dumbie and purposely take damage.

rarely will i use cure because I'd rather get my other techs leveld up. eventually i'll have a cane with just resta/cure and use my rods for attack spells

[Kirip-san]

And look. Someone just voted for the force. Whoopee doo~nyo.

Oh, and that party would've been a failure anyways with those kind of people.
Be glad you don't have to put up with them any longer.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kirip-san on 2006-11-25 19:57 ]</font>

[_Deliverance_]

Nah, you're right. Besides, that's part of the fun in being a force. Multi-tasking between dropping bombs and taking care of your teammates. Neglecting any part of reversing, healing or damaging makes a force a waste of a party slot.

[Choja]

Triple S: When you ask for it, it WILL come.
EDIT: Told you someone would put that on.

Me being a force and all, Resta is something a force should have, really. I don't get why you should hesitate to using it. There's reasons like:
1) Actually keeping your teammates alive, in the off chance one of them doesn't have a doll.
2) Leveling your technique for better range.
3) Repeat 1.
It's better to keep your group in tip top shape since getting ripped apart can go as fast as 7 seconds (WAY faster than in PSO), and with lowered HP, that's going to be quicker.
So keep your party healthy and don't let them hit red. or yellow. or anything under 50%.
This message has been brought to you by th- wait, what? There's no sponsors? That's just mean



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Choja on 2006-11-25 20:01 ]</font>

[Rizen]

Personally, I see where you are coming from. Although I never have this problem everyday, I have come across it. Some Forces choose not to have/use resta because they feel that they will be stuck in that position. It sounds silly, but thats the mentality of alot of new force players.

Also, there are times when you can not use items to take care of yourself and you really need a Force to save you can. For instance, if you are in Temple and you get hit by stun and half like and you see another explosion ready to go off in front of you, you can't pop a Antimate or Dimate to save you. Another case is if you get knocked down, your items dont go off properly sometimes or you can't use them at all.

Another solution to cover the Force problem is to have team mates carry Sols and Stars. There have been times when my party doesnt have a Force and we rely on each other to keep one another alive. If done well, the missions will go smooth.

Right now I am Force, I have a hard time adjusting from Ranger to Force every time I do it but its quite easy to break myself into healing my party. For starters, if I get really bad, I will stop attacking complete and just watch my party's life and heal. Then after a while I start using offensives techs and while watching party life. After while, it becomes instinct to just glance over for a moment and see if I need to reverse or resta my group.

[Garnet_Moon]

Sure, I can buy Dimates and Scapedolls over and over, but i'm out here for profit.

I'm not here for the Class Points.
I'm not here for the XP. (Though it certainly helps. My Newman ain't tapped out yet like my Beast is)
I'm not here for any of your shiny rares.

I'm here to make Meseta in preparation for next thursdays Meseta sink. I only see any sort of profit when a Force is present and actively using Resta and Reverser. I don't see much of any of it when i'm forced to use a full compliment of Monomates, Dimates, Trimates, Sol Atomizers and Antimates.

For the love of christ please stop being selfish. Some of us would like to see SOME profit when we're XPing. Let's not just be forced to work on it solo, k? Besides, it takes all of 2 seconds to Resta and/or Reverser when needed. It's not too much. Want me to cover the recharge on your wand/staff? Fine! I'll give you the 100 meseta needed to recharge that single rod if I don't have a Photon Charge to give you.


Seriously. Maximize meseta earned people. You may be able to afford your precious compliment of A-Rank weapons, but when we're forced to constantly use our own items then don't you get pissed one bit when we're gimps for a while longer.

(NOTE: If it's life or death, sure i'll use my items, but c'mon. You're standing right next to me on a casual run. Stop being an ass.)

/rantover?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-25 20:03 ]</font>

[Triple_S]

On 2006-11-25 19:57, drmcst45 wrote:

rarely will i use cure

THIS is why people get pissed off. It's much more efficient to have resta as one tech and *insert your awesome attack tech here* as another. You can heal people who need it, and still dish out the damage you waste so much TP on. Yes I know it's not TP anymore, but what can I say, I still love PSO.

[Dj_SkyEpic]

Bad force >:O

[Midicronica]

Heh, buddy. You should play with me, you wouldn't have to worry about a thing. ;D

[Yachiru]

That's stupid. I don't particularly like Forces who you have to ASK to heal. I always tap the Y button when someone gets hit even once. o_o

[Garnet_Moon]

I'm glad i'm going Guntecher. Level 10 Resta is better than Level 30 Resta that isn't even being used. Level 30 bullets as well? /drool

Don't worry ya'll, i'll keep you cured and status ailment free. :3

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-25 20:05 ]</font>

[Dragon_Knight]

Heh when I think about it I never carry a doll on me...since I'm getting into the serious A ranks though I suppose I should. I usualy stay out of trouble aside from the random attack that finds its way to the back of my head.

[Yoiyami]

You're dealing with different types of people. That really says it all. Some believe just because they have it doesn't mean they have to be your hp battery so you can be careless, especially if they chose to deal damage over support. Others happily accept the responsibility of taking care of the party. So yey for various responses.

Really, it all boils down to simply asking the person whether or not they're willing to be support instead of demanding and nagging at them to heal you. "Heal me, HEAL ME! You have resta, heal me so I don't have to use items. Heal." Yep, that'll get you labeled as rude in many parties. Especially since they're given a choice between two different play styles: support and damage. Try a little respect. <3

[Rhylsh]

If your story is true, i definitely agree he was a poor force. Ruins aren't runs where a person can fall asleep and be bored. I'd say your opinion of entitlement, though waranted, might have been what chaffed them most. And from the sounds of it, you were better off leaving anyway.

[Randomness]

I'd like to say something in the force's defense, but from your description, he never played PSO, much less as a force, and has no clue what hes doing. I will admit that sometimes I get a little too focused on nuking, but I do look at HP, and try to heal is someones below 60-70% or so.

Whats even more annoying, is how many forces dont seem to have Reverser. And if they do, they arent pulling it out for anything less than paralysis. Both Moatoob and Neudaiz have enemies who love to drop attack power, AKA worms. While a force, you can just laugh the debuff off, it tends to last a while, and in the long run, especially when applied to several party members, hinders your damage output. IMO, any force whos doing anything higher than C rank on Moatoob of Neudaiz should have reverser, or be getting ASAP. A force who doesnt have resta, AND is at least level 8 or so, is useless.

[GeoHolyhart]

Right now Forces are the only ones that can heal, so they should simple as that. You know what? Chances are a party full of Rangers and Hunters don't need another pure damage dealer. If you don't wanna heal and deal damage instead, change class.

Its not hard to tag, heal and do damage. Its not really! If your party is killing things too quickly, you're probably doing C rank stuff when most of the party is level 25+.

[Nukei]

I've never bumped into hunters who kept asking for heals >.o I guess it's because low hp annoys me, I always heal unless I run out of TP of all 4 rods/wands. But those players kept using healing items and never complained >.0.

[Garnet_Moon]

So far, the list of Nonos in party comments are...

Die=Boot
No Scapedoll=Boot

I think I should add a new one...

FO who don't heal=Boot

Who is with me? D:<

[Triple_S]

Something like that. How about:

Force who has the ability to heal but when you ask, instead of even saying "no" they just ignore you=boot

[hucast21]

On 2006-11-25 19:45, FenixStryk wrote:

Snip...

My health would often get dangerously low (the lowest was 8 HP) before he reacted.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FenixStryk on 2006-11-25 20:02 ]</font>


You lost the argument in my eyes right there. Heal yourself, never rely on anybody to bail you out in situations. Sad but true.

[Carbinne]

Clearly there is some blame to be placed upon both parties. The Force should have announced that s/he is not going to be casting heals so that the rest of the party understands not to expect them. The Hunter should not have assumed that the Force was completely obligated to heal the other party members. It certainly is more efficient and cheaper (for the hunters, at least) to have a good force casting resta to keep hp up, but if the force is levelling up offensive techs or just sucks at healing, then that force should let the other members of the party know that. Things like this should be cleared before the party sets out on missions or at least early on.

That said, personally, I am far more happy with a force that casts heals and reversers out quickly and often, then one that does not.

[Triple_S]

Yeah, exactly.

[_Deliverance_]

Death happens Ura, but the rest I can agree with.

[GeoHolyhart]

On 2006-11-25 20:10, Garnet_Moon wrote:
So far, the list of Nonos in party comments are...

Die=Boot
No Scapedoll=Boot

I think I should add a new one...

FO who don't heal=Boot

Who is with me? D:<


*gets angry mob pitchfork* Oh yea!

[Triple_S]

*pushes down your pitchforks* Easy, there, that's too general.

[Dj_SkyEpic]

Playing with Dj~

When ever I'm in a party. No one really cares about their health. I'm the one who's keeping everyone alive. Like... Alot of games, NO ONE can pick up dimates, trimates,sols, etc. because they are full on them and havent used throughout the games!

The only time someone would EVER use a dimate is if I say... "Lawl, my sweets, no one has ever used a dimate yet... :3 " then they do it ; ;

Other times are when I'm frozen, paralyzed and etc. They would use sol or star atomizers on me just so I can return to my post like the weable I am >:] .... and other times they just care about themselves and use dimate and watch me look sexy frozen <3

Chips and drinks anyone? I'll get mc'donalds~

[FenixStryk]

To hucast21: Yes, 8 HP is definetly too low, but my health reached such a low percentage about 20 seconds after I asked. I also never died during the runs and had multiple Scape Dolls. However, I see your point, and can somewhat agree.

To Yoiyami: True. I'd imagine an hour of even the nicest requests being repeated over and over could come off as arrogant. However, shouldn't one assume that if it's being asked so often, that they are doing something wrong?

I could understand if the Force told me he wouldn't heal often due to leveling attacks or not having the willpower to watch HP bars, but during this event, he did not verbalize such a view. This is what gets me the most, IMHO.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FenixStryk on 2006-11-25 20:27 ]</font>

[Randomness]

On 2006-11-25 20:16, Triple_S wrote:
*pushes down your pitchforks* Easy, there, that's too general.



Yes, mobs are too hard to control, lots of collateral damage. Go buy yourself a sniper rifle.

[ThisIsMyPanic]

I'm sort of half and half with the matter.

If I were the force, I'd gladly heal, infact, I'd probably over do it as a healer, because I enjoy keeping my team mates alive in games where I have the ability to heal. If asked, I don't see why the force would not toss you a heal, or even a cure.

On the other hand, I disagree with the reasoning that because a force is the only class that can heal as of now, it is their job to do so. Though its something they can do for themselves and the party, in no way is it something they're "supposed/entitled" to do. If it were the main job of the class, I doubt they'd have many other spells. I spend a lot of my time playing with a friend. He plays a newman female force, and sometimes(though rarely) decides not to heal the party until the boss/before a boss fight, or not until our HP gets extremely low. I'm fine with this. For the reason that I'm sure he, and other forces, would like to enjoy their class as well. And I'm not sure everyone wants to be a healbot just because they can cast an occasional resta or two. I definetely wouldn't blame the force if my Hp was like, 10 and he gave me no heals. If someone's going below 50% without heals, its probably not a good idea to continue fighting in the first place.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ThisIsMyPanic on 2006-11-25 20:30 ]</font>

[GeoHolyhart]

On 2006-11-25 20:17, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-11-25 20:16, Triple_S wrote:
*pushes down your pitchforks* Easy, there, that's too general.



Yes, mobs are too hard to control, lots of collateral damage. Go buy yourself a sniper rifle.


*gets angry mob sniper rifle* Oh yea!



But seriously. I forgot to mention. I don't generally let my parties HP drop below 75%, but my party is usually smart enough to know if that I'm half way across the map taking care of someone else, or if there life reaches yellow to heal them selves. This is on Uni 15 of the PC/PS2 version. Maybe Xbox Live has more people who are ignorant, goes double for uni 1 probably?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GeoHolyhart on 2006-11-25 20:28 ]</font>

[Kanore]

As a FO on PSO GC and a Priest on WoW, I have OCD when it comes to healing: If anyone goes to yellow, it's time for me to wake up.

[Triple_S]

Uni1diots tend not to play correctly.

[Candor]

*considers making a force without resta just for laughs*
If you can say that you tried everything to make it easy for that force to heal you (running to him, trying to avoid damage, etc.) then yeah, he's at fault. But i'd like to see how many hunters would die if the force didn't heal at all "o it's okay, he'll heal me no use for a dimate." I personally don't expect a force to heal me, works out pretty well. Geo did a good job though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Nukei]

On 2006-11-25 20:27, GeoHolyhart wrote:

On 2006-11-25 20:17, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-11-25 20:16, Triple_S wrote:
*pushes down your pitchforks* Easy, there, that's too general.



Yes, mobs are too hard to control, lots of collateral damage. Go buy yourself a sniper rifle.


*gets angry mob sniper rifle* Oh yea!



But seriously. I forgot to mention. I don't generally let my parties HP drop below 75%, but my party is usually smart enough to know if that I'm half way across the map taking care of someone else, or if there life reaches yellow to heal them selves. This is on Uni 15 of the PC/PS2 version. Maybe Xbox Live has more people who are ignorant, goes double for uni 1 probably?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GeoHolyhart on 2006-11-25 20:28 ]</font>


I guess (o0o0)o, I've heard so much about hunters complaining about forces not healing in the forums, but I've never experienced this in game to myself or anybody else. Even at universe one. I play PC/PS2.

[Dj_SkyEpic]

On 2006-11-25 20:33, Kanore wrote:
As a FO on PSO GC and a Priest on WoW, I have OCD when it comes to healing: If anyone goes to yellow, it's time for me to wake up.



Yea. If I see anyone in yellow or below 50% of health, You'll see me doing a Mad Dash straight towards them.

I do love the resta's radius though... Very wide.. easy to tag alot of people at the same time.

[SolRiver]

Incapable of making proper judgement without both side's testimonies being present.

btw, what lv was the force? You guys were relying on trimate, which means the hunters there are pretty high lv. In that sense, that person who played the force is quite incapable of learning as he/she played for so long and still haven't grasp the force position.

However, given that I wasn't at the scene, and there is only 1 side testimony; all things said here can only be bias.
-----------

Personally, whenever I played force, I would heal even if the party is not in danger. Usually 75%, however, there are special cases with the victim got hit to yellow with 1-2 hits.

Oh, btw... I did see quite a few bad forces around, but they are just low lv that is still trying to grip the game. (I hope)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2006-11-25 20:44 ]</font>

[Wallin]

I already had this post a long, long time ago about whether or not Forces are required to heal. Well, Forces do not have to heal if it is not their play style... but it's also similar to the hunters who insist on using finder's loot - because they're greedy.

If a Force won't heal EVER, drop them or drop the group. It means the Force is just plain selfish and doesn't actually care about anyone but themselves. Now, you might be wondering why I think that's true - like I've said before, Forces and Hunters have a mutual relationship in a group. The hunter's job is to fight up close and get aggro, letting the Force cast their spells as freely as they do. The Force, in turn, has nothing to worry about since they never worry about taking damage, but should heal the people that allow them to do that.

Now you might think, "Well Forces should be able to play however they want to, if they want to do nothing but cast attack magic, they should be allowed to." Well that's just great, too bad it doesn't do squat for the rest of the group; a Force who won't heal in a group at all is just dead weight. If you wanted someone who could do damage, you could just as easily get another hunter who would at least be able to assist in drawing aggro, thereby allowing other hunters to back off and heal themselves instead of assuming or having to ask the Force for heals they will never receive.

Also, this is not De Ragan C we're talking about, this is Relics A. Expecting the hunters to blow through all of their mates on a single run since Monomates aren't going to cover squat and Dimates only heal a quarter of your health is ridiculous. The Force has to spend an extra 100 meseta on PP recharge, or all the hunters collectively can spend a total of 1000+ meseta on healing items... hmmm... And no, healing items are not plentiful and bountiful, especially since you're sharing them on 'random' loot (even if the loot is set to 'order', you are not guaranteed a mate for every 6 that drop), and since you can't go to your room to get more, the hunters are just getting a raw deal no matter how you look at it.

And keep in mind this only applies for Forces that refuse to heal at all. Obviously if a Force can't reach someone, or if the Hunter refuses to even try to let the Force heal, it's the Hunter's fault.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wallin on 2006-11-25 20:46 ]</font>

[_Deliverance_]

On 2006-11-25 20:27, ThisIsMyPanic wrote:
I'm sort of half and half with the matter.

If I were the force, I'd gladly heal, infact, I'd probably over do it as a healer, because I enjoy keeping my team mates alive in games where I have the ability to heal. If asked, I don't see why the force would not toss you a heal, or even a cure.

On the other hand, I disagree with the reasoning that because a force is the only class that can heal as of now, it is their job to do so. Though its something they can do for themselves and the party, in no way is it something they're "supposed/entitled" to do. If it were the main job of the class, I doubt they'd have many other spells. I spend a lot of my time playing with a friend. He plays a newman female force, and sometimes(though rarely) decides not to heal the party until the boss/before a boss fight, or not until our HP gets extremely low. I'm fine with this. For the reason that I'm sure he, and other forces, would like to enjoy their class as well. And I'm not sure everyone wants to be a healbot just because they can cast an occasional resta or two. I definetely wouldn't blame the force if my Hp was like, 10 and he gave me no heals. If someone's going below 50% without heals, its probably not a good idea to continue fighting in the first place.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ThisIsMyPanic on 2006-11-25 20:30 ]</font>


So if a hunter was running around, using solmates and atomizers only, you wouldn't wonder wtf is wrong with them?

[Dj_SkyEpic]

Hmmm... If I see a guy mainly eating up Dimates, sol mates and etc... I WOULD thing something is wrong with them.
You have me!1!~ Dont be selfish ; ;

You'll turn into Cicil in PSO and become fat for all the monomates you ate. Now you must run to the waterfall!!! Mauaha

[Gazette]

As much as I agree with Fenix, I just came back from an A rank Dimma run.
As many of you know, forces need to heal A LOT there, not just resta, but a whole lot of reverser.

Being the only force, I waited for people to hit yellow, because well, I carry all but 1 rod.
Problem is, I had like 3 guys who just outright REFUSED to heal themselves.

What ended up happening was me being forced to switch resta to three other wands within the time.
I asked a number of times if they would mind healing themselves because I was really burning though my wands.
Two said all they had was a monomate left or had completely run out and the other just didn't say anything.

Needless to say, by the end I was left on my hajirod with not much left to go on untill we hit the recharge.
By then I was prety much fed up, I said if they wanted to take the time to go out and buy some mates, I'd wait.

Lo and behold, they go "I'm okay, I have like 8 tris and di's and a couple sols. lol I was just kidding"
I don't know about you but it's one thing to force your Force to heal, and it's another thing to pull shit like this.

They ended up dying while stunned, twice.
I didn't mind, I got a couple rares anyway.

I'm not saying the Force was right, but that isn't to say that the other parties can't cooperate either.

[Wallin]

I agree with you Gazette. I should also mention in that two-way relationship that if Hunters blatently go out of their way to take damage and say "Ooh, a perfect healbot!" (and yes, that did happen to me today), you are free to dump the Hunter.

[ThisIsMyPanic]

On 2006-11-25 20:45, _Deliverance_ wrote:

On 2006-11-25 20:27, ThisIsMyPanic wrote:
I'm sort of half and half with the matter.

If I were the force, I'd gladly heal, infact, I'd probably over do it as a healer, because I enjoy keeping my team mates alive in games where I have the ability to heal. If asked, I don't see why the force would not toss you a heal, or even a cure.

On the other hand, I disagree with the reasoning that because a force is the only class that can heal as of now, it is their job to do so. Though its something they can do for themselves and the party, in no way is it something they're "supposed/entitled" to do. If it were the main job of the class, I doubt they'd have many other spells. I spend a lot of my time playing with a friend. He plays a newman female force, and sometimes(though rarely) decides not to heal the party until the boss/before a boss fight, or not until our HP gets extremely low. I'm fine with this. For the reason that I'm sure he, and other forces, would like to enjoy their class as well. And I'm not sure everyone wants to be a healbot just because they can cast an occasional resta or two. I definetely wouldn't blame the force if my Hp was like, 10 and he gave me no heals. If someone's going below 50% without heals, its probably not a good idea to continue fighting in the first place.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ThisIsMyPanic on 2006-11-25 20:30 ]</font>


So if a hunter was running around, using solmates and atomizers only, you wouldn't wonder wtf is wrong with them?




No no, I play a hunt myself at the time. And If a force was in the party, sure I might think " Boy I wish I got a heal or two.". But I wouldn't blame him for my death or anything.

As I was saying, if asked, I don't see why a force wouldn't toss an occasional heal/cure or two. But its not as if its their job just because they can do it. In my opinion at least.

[GeoHolyhart]

You'll turn into Cicil in PSO and become fat for all the monomates you ate. Now you must run to the waterfall!!! Mauaha


lol, oh man the memories. Good one.

[Gazette]

What really burned me up wasn't the fact that I had to heal,
I joined a Dimma A, I knew what I was getting into.
What pissed me off was that these guys just took me for granted.
I often had to run headlong into a group of Veal de Bears, not because someone was stunned, but because they just would not heal themselves at all.

Meanwhile I had to run back out of there without getting pummeled and still try to tag some mobs for xp.
That's just abusing the force.

[Wallin]

[b]On 2006-11-25 20:54, ThisIsMyPanic wrote
No no, I play a hunt myself at the time. And If a force was in the party, sure I might think " Boy I wish I got a heal or two.". But I wouldn't blame him for my death or anything.

As I was saying, if asked, I don't see why a force wouldn't toss an occasional heal/cure or two. But its not as if its their job just because they can do it. In my opinion at least.

I sort of agree here, and sort of don't. A Force that won't heal is almost as if they're playing for a free meal. They don't have to worry about ever taking damage, they deal damage (again, worry-free), they expect a fair share of the loot, they get pissed off when people do die even though they have spells to prevent it, and in return to the group they give... more damage? If I had known Forces could just sit around and do nothing but spam spells and laugh at the people up front taking damage I would have played one a long time ago... but it's just not like that, in my opinion. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-25 20:59, Gazette wrote:
What really burned me up wasn't the fact that I had to heal,
I joined a Dimma A, I knew what I was getting into.
What pissed me off was that these guys just took me for granted.
I often had to run headlong into a group of Veal de Bears, not because someone was stunned, but because they just would not heal themselves at all.

Meanwhile I had to run back out of there without getting pummeled and still try to tag some mobs for xp.
That's just abusing the force.


Are you going to reimburse us for all the Dimates and Trimates we use on the harder runs? What about when we have to go back MID-FLOOR to get more? You going to pay for those too? Right now it's counter productive to rely SOLELY on items when a Force is in the party. I don't know what the S-Rank meseta drops are like, but it'd better be something magnificant to be able to cover items and equipment at the same time, if not, somebody better bring a few wands with nothing but Resta/Reverser on them.

If i'm using more than half my healing items with a Force in the party, something is wrong. VERY wrong.

Tell you what. I'll start bringing my 4 rods with me when I XP. If I see a Force not healing, i'll loan them my rod to heal. Still got a problem with it? Fine. Find another party.

/boot
/blist
/wrist
/emorantonPSOW

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-25 21:03 ]</font>

[FenixStryk]

On 2006-11-25 20:59, Gazette wrote:
I often had to run headlong into a group of Bil de Vears, not because someone was stunned, but because they just would not heal themselves at all.

Meanwhile I had to run back out of there without getting pummeled and still try to tag some mobs for xp.
That's just abusing the force.I agree. Something that bad is upsetting.

Looks like the general concensus is Fenix 2 Force 1, with those defending the Force saying I shouldnt've relied on him so much.

I can somewhat agree, but at the same time, the Force was not only letting my HP get that low, but the entire party's. Is that not something to be frowned upon?

[EphekZ]

not really. just throw a few RA techs then grab your resta wand. it's not like PSO where you dont directly benifit from resta spam. You do, it give your resta more exp, that's good so then you can have more range and stop bitching about taking two steps. and yes I did play FO, I got it to lvl 5 for wartecher and yes I will be supporting as wartecher.

[Gazette]

On 2006-11-25 21:02, FenixStryk wrote:
I can somewhat agree, but at the same time, the Force was not only letting my HP get that low, but the entire party's. Is that not something to be frowned upon?



That really depends on the situation.
Like I said, I just ran Dimma A and was the only Force with really nothing but wands.

If I had spammer Resta every time someone was hit, I would have blown my PP by Block 2.
A smart force should be able to maximize his PP and still keep his party alive.

A force's job isn't to keep you at 100% hp 100% of the time, what good is a heal gonna do if you're only down but 80HP or so?
It's all about keeping the party alive, not babying them after every hit.

Granted, if you have the PP to burn, then by all means do so.
But hunters also have to realize that every cast of resta is money out of the force's pocket just like every mate is money out of yours.

[Garnet_Moon]

It costs like 75 meseta to recharge a completely empty rod. You get that on the first kill, and a bunch of change left over.

Healing items; for the price, aren't as effective as using Resta. You can argue it any way you want, but Resta is still going to the superior, and most cost effective choice out there.

[Numnuttz]

for a force to let your hp go below 50 is risking a death in my book. i rather get S rank thank you and money. when i see anyone thats 50 or lower i start the spam healing. but you just have to realize that there are so many forces that dont heal at all. ive talked to many high level forces that even complain about how others dont heal at all. i still remeber what a friend of mine said online. he said ,"How can forces not heal, its like the best spell in the game.'

[Wallin]

On 2006-11-25 21:09, Gazette wrote:
That really depends on the situation.
Like I said, I just ran Dimma A and was the only Force with really nothing but wands.

If I had spammer Resta every time someone was hit, I would have blown my PP by Block 2.
A smart force should be able to maximize his PP and still keep his party alive.

A force's job isn't to keep you at 100% hp 100% of the time, what good is a heal gonna do if you're only down but 80HP or so?
It's all about keeping the party alive, not babying them after every hit.

Granted, if you have the PP to burn, then by all means do so.
But hunters also have to realize that every cast of resta is money out of the force's pocket just like every mate is money out of yours.



Your point is valid, but that's also not the situation we're talking about. The topic isn't about Forces having to heal all the time, or do nothing except heal - I think pretty much everyone here is veteran enough to know that Forces need to tap things at the very least for experience. It's about a Force healing when people are low on health, not just one person, but an entire party below 50%.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wallin on 2006-11-25 21:28 ]</font>

[Gazette]

I never said a mate is equal or even remotely similar to resta's power,
I simply said that if you expect a force to heal you after EVERY hit, then that's just not doing the force any justice.

Yes, my situation was a bit rare, but meanwhile there are still hunters out there who think of us as nothing but heal bots.
I as a force feel obliged to keep my partymates alive, what constitutes alive for me is above 50%, usually around 70% or more, but if you look like you're in no danger and you're hanging around 70%, I'm not going to waste the PP.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gazette on 2006-11-25 21:27 ]</font>

[Rooroo]

As Garnet_Moon pointed out, you don't need to link Resta/Reverser to 5* Rods. Carry around several cheap 3* or 4* rods, the recharge cost on those will be considerably lower than recharging 5* weapons.

[Wallin]

On 2006-11-25 21:24, Gazette wrote:
I never said a mate is equal or even remotely similar to resta's power

Ah, yes, I distorted your words, I apologize for that.

[DonRoyale]

This would look like it defies my first principle of Forcery (that a Force is not there just for you and he or she is not your slave, AND IT'S FUCKING TRUE AND I'LL ARGUE ABOUT IT FOR HOURS AND STOMP YOU TO THE FUCKING GROUND IF YOU DISAGREE), but I'm going to say it anyways:

You were right.

I assume this was Universe 1 or 2, since that's where all the idiotic BS happens in this game.

The guy can obviously see or hear you, he's just being an ignorant (I use ignorant in a different way; as in, ignores you) prick.

It's even moreso rude when they gang up on you. Look, I'd be pissed if every two seconds you asked to get healed too, but I'd be pissed at the fucking Force. Wake up, bitch, it ain't that hard to take two seconds out of your time to AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE THE DAMN GUY.

And it's just retarded in Ferarris when they boot you. If anything, that asshole of a Force should have been booted instead of you, but I bet those noobs were all friends or whatever.

The lesson you should take from this is that, considering my initial assumption was correct, you should stray FAR AWAY from the Noobiverses. Join us in Universe 15...for the most part, you're safe from these retarded six-year old selfish brats.

Join us...It is your destiny...http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Sexy_Raine]

I'll heal my party whenever if feels it's needed. It's 40 pp per cast, most people in my party do appreicate it though. Enemies in Neidaiz relics A seem to do the least damage to me, their light element attacks for the most part do 0 damage to me(Godly MST and Evasion). When people get purified(LOL), I will try to use reverser on them.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-11-26 03:31 ]</font>

[Cry0]

resta is a lot more expensive now then it was in pso, always keep that in mind. so you cnt spam cast it anymore. also. stop getting hit so often. and if he doesnt heal you, use a mate and get over it. either that, or make him use up his moon atomizers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif serves him right.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

you're definately right. I'm beginning to learn how it is to be a Force and I'm telling you that its not that big a deal to switch to a rod/wand that has resta and press square or triangle to cast resta on your buddies. Then I'll just switch back and continue nuking everything. Even though I'm mostly a Hunter at heart, I don't really mind healing too much, I only hate it when I'm running to them to heal them and they're running all over the place, making me chase them.

[hareofthedog]

As for Garnet and the whole money thing... man... do you have any idea how hard it is for support forces to make money when your party eats up all the cash? Even when you tell them that with a few hundred meseta they will never die... they still eat it all up... I guess I mean... If I have to solo to get cash why shouldn't you?

[Blueblur]

This is ridiculous. If someone's playing a Force and refuses to heal then they should just quit the class.

[Sychosis]

On 2006-11-25 19:45, FenixStryk wrote:
It's their job!


No. It's not.

[Candor]

On 2006-11-26 06:03, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-11-25 19:45, FenixStryk wrote:
It's their job!


No. It's not.


It's not like a hunter who refuses to attack. That's the only thing hunters can do, and if a ranger refuses to use SEs then something is wrong. But forces can support and do damage. This reminds me of WoW where if you had a spell to heal someone (even if it was one spell out of 20+ damage ones) you were forced to heal. I want to experience every class eventually, but I hate healing. So unless it's during some break in the fighting or the person needing to be healed is in range of me i'm not worrying about em.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Candor on 2006-11-26 06:10 ]</font>

[Logicdustbin]

I play a Force.

I always keep the party healed, and have never been asked for it...

I carry 5 rods and 1 septor, all of them have heal, and the rods have cure. I'm not sure what eveyone complains about "the cost to re-charge" vs. *mates, I couldn't care less; I'll spam the heal spell often - sometimes I have to 'leave' at a check point to go re-charge (I always inform the team of this before going) as I'm always back within a minute-or-so.

as for the price...I have never had a problem paying the bill - I believe I currently have 60,000 meseta on hand - this after giving out drops of 10,000 to other players on a regular basis - basically, its no big deal to me, its part of the game.

although, it wasn't until teh 'Toob planet opened, that I actually had to leave mid-game to recharge - along with half the party http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

funny thing, as someone mentioned...no one ever came up and cured me when I have been frozen or paralized :?

as for the games I play - I will only join games (that I have not started) with Items set in order - don't really care what I pick up, just think that people actually play the game instead of running to pick up drops. Also, I look to see who is playing, if its a group of hunters, I figure that they need a Force, so I join and have some fun.

but, if I see a Force or two already in the party, I usually look for another game as I do find that they are not supporting the team at all, just trying to deal damage - I usually discover this after the hunters/rangers start to cheer after I arrive, run to the middle of the group and cast heal - I think it definately makes the other Force look like an idiot.

oh, and I play on the 360, I find that 90% of the games are locked on uni 15....

[Merumeru]

XD nobody should have to change their playing style for you, if they are a force and they dont seem to use resta EFFICIENTLY or AT ALL and you don't like them, don't party with them or kick them out of your party; which is why I have to go with the force on this one :3 im sorry, its just that i have friends who use force for its Bow stats and i never feel the urge to force them to pull out a wand and heal me

once again, THEY'RE NOT YOUR BITCH BECAUSE THEY'RE A FORCE x.x if they heal, yay, if they dont and it bothers you, kick them out of your party or dont be in a party with them

[Zaft]

If they don't heal, they shouldn't even bother being a force. I'm a force, and I can safely say it is NOT hard to hit the right arrow button every minute or two. That's what, 2 meseta we just spended to heal everyone in the pt to full? ZOMG.

Now, granted, I do mostly only party with my guild (who are very professional players) so I don't have to heal -that- much, and they can keep themselves safe, but I see no problem with healing. It's not a cost thing, considering you always make more money than you spend using a recharger (unless your party got decimated continulously in the area you were in).

To finish it off, if you plan on not healing in the party, then the instant you enter that party you should say "I'm not going to heal much at all, you guys cool with that?" and if they say yes, then there you go. If they say no, then form or find another party (It's like meleeing RDMs in FFXI, I had no problem with them as long as they could do their job, but some people completely freaked out).

[ViciousXUSMC]

I used to spam resta after every fight, but now days I just use it when I see sombody is about 1/2 hp or so because the PP cost does add up very fast and its a waist.

I use my 5*'s for resta because I dont have time to swich weapons and also on a weaker weapon it will just be a weaker heal, run out of PP faster, and take up more of my almost always full inventory.

I use reverser almost every time sombody gets a status effect right away.

Nobody has ever died on me to this day with me as a force in there group except from a 1 hit boss kill.

The other big reason I dont heal as much as I used too is because I am the MAIN dps most of the time, nobody except the rare exception of a great gear hunter is doing the dmg I do.

We run Relics A in Neudaze and I am doing 350x3 dmg to mobs with Radiga every second with my wand, or 600+ dmg with diga, and I see there 30's and 50's popoing up here and there :/

[Callous]

I'm a hunter myself, and I have to side with the Force on this one. Sounds to me like you were being annoying and not using your mates even though you had them because "you shouldn't have to". He didn't want to play support force and no one else in the party had a problem with that, only you. He didn't verbalize his lack of will to heal you all the time, but really, after 2 requests without a response you should have figured this out yourself and either stopped asking or left for a party that was better suited to your playing style.

[drmcst45]

Here's another thing to ponder.

*You can find various mono/di/tri-mates as well as Star Atomizers along the way.
*Forces have to pay for that PP spent, the **** aint free.
*If you never use a mate on yourself at some point in the game then you're a waste of slot!!!!

Hell i can find like 10 monomates a run! you dont even have to buy the crap

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, I don't mind if a Force doesn't heal me when I have like 90% damage or get hit just once, Hunters should just suck it up if they take a hit that takes away less than 50% of their life, but Forces should heal whenever it gets serious.

[Arieta]

Not using Mates just because you have a force in your party is just plain ignorant. "Waste" mates? Puuuuleeez. They're so common, you can just do Mad creatures C once and walk out with a full supply of them. I rarly use mates, but I use them when I feel that I should. If I get down to half health (which doesn't happen to often) I heal myself. Though I must admit that my auto regen item has saved me from using mates a ton. That +15 hp a tick really adds up over time.

I use animates all the time. I think it's dumb to see hunter and rangers walking around Paralzed and waiting for it to wear off when they can just heal it themselfs. Same with forces that don't heal silence off of themselfs with a animate.

To me it just sounds like you get spoiled when a force is in the group and decide that it's their job to do look after you and that you should no longer bother try to take care of yourself.

[KirinDave]

I am a force. I've had the second level resta since about level 25 (and at L32 it's nearly maxed now), which should tell you how freakin' much I heal.

As a force, I heal when I can, and I try to keep people out of yellow. But even given that, you should be prepared to use some mates. If you see me separated from you, there isn't much I can do. Given the gleeful way that hunters ignore any sense of tactics and split up, it's kinda inevitable that some people will get the shaft on heals in some encounters.

But it sounds like Fenix's force was actively not healing. Which is just crazy for a Force. Reverser and Resta are half the reason we're in a party.

[Athrex]

The Force and Party were completely wrong. I don't understand people that play this game. I got booted once for starting a discussion on whether or not I was an effective member of the party. (Newman Hunter) We weren't yelling or fighting just chatting. At the end we both got punted while the party moved on.

For Reference on Forces complaining that its "expensive", and those saying that Hunters should use their healing items because it saves money.

Dimate - 150 meseta (It takes two of these to get close to full health and I'm a freaking Newman)
Trimate - 500 meseta

Sometimes when I can't find a force to group with I would like to play the game without going to the shop and spening 2-3 runs worth of money just to run 1 mission because I burned up my items in a party where I shouldn't have needed to. (especially with those rediculously priced new weapons and armor coming out) Whenever I'm near death I instinctively go for the items, but to tell me that I should be keeping my own hp up with items as a hunter is laughable at best when plain and simple its cheaper for everyone if you just cast 1 resta. A Force complaining its expensive for them to heal is making a laughable arguement at best. Its not like my 6 different weapons I PA spam with are free either.

Its simply not that hard to heal. Its not going to cramp your playstyle to help your team. I just never understood why a force would be so insistent on not healing. The point of the game is to make friends, socialize, and have fun. Its so much easier to have an enjoyable experience when no one is complaining or doing anything thats just dumb like a hunter who has 1 weapon and never uses his PAs or a Hunter who has multiple element weapons and is too lazy to swap them for his target.

Its not hard to heal and tag. Its also not hard to heal tag and still attack a decent amount. I'm a 10 Force and 8 Hunter and I spend way more money on hunter than I ever did on force simply because I have to use items often.

Forces who don't heal are selfish, plain and simple. If a Force doesn't heal for RP reasons then ....well.... I guess I'll avoid him/her like the plague. RPers who nerf the functionality of their characters shouldn't RP in public groups.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Athrex on 2006-11-26 09:08 ]</font>

[AlieNxxxxxxxx]

Use a monomate...

[Kaloa]

As a force, I don't mind spamming resta liberally on my teammates. I'm also quick to cure them of status ailments. Making sure they stay alive and that they're dishing out as much damage as quickly as possible only benefits me in the end as it ensures a quick and easy S Rank.

Isn't that what we all want?

I do, however, find that keeping up with healing the team can be somewhat difficult at times. It's not like in PSO where your resta reaches virtually every corner of the room. Rooms and areas in PSU are HUGE, and the resta range is actually quite small in comparison. I try to my best to stay close to my teammates, but naturally they're going to be running all over the place chasing the enemies down, so it's not always easy. Often I'll start running towards a teammate to heal when I see their health drop to around 75%, but sometimes it's going to end up being alot lower before I actually get there to heal them. If a player can't navigate to a safer place away from the danger to wait and be healed, or closer to the force so that they can be healed faster, I think they should take matters into their own hands and heal themselves. It's foolish be standing in the middle of a pack of enemies engaging them in combat with 10hp left waiting for the force that's stuck somewhere else or on the other side of the room to come and heal you. If you do that and die, you only have yourself to blame.

[Athrex]

On 2006-11-26 09:04, AlieNxxxxxxxx wrote:
Use a monomate...



Gladly, if you don't mind me standing back out of the fight while I use 9 of them to get myself to full health, and I'm a freaking Newman.

[Lyrise]

On 2006-11-26 08:04, Arieta wrote:
Not using Mates just because you have a force in your party is just plain ignorant. "Waste" mates? Puuuuleeez. They're so common, you can just do Mad creatures C once and walk out with a full supply of them. I rarly use mates, but I use them when I feel that I should. If I get down to half health (which doesn't happen to often) I heal myself. Though I must admit that my auto regen item has saved me from using mates a ton. That +15 hp a tick really adds up over time.

I use animates all the time. I think it's dumb to see hunter and rangers walking around Paralzed and waiting for it to wear off when they can just heal it themselfs. Same with forces that don't heal silence off of themselfs with a animate.

To me it just sounds like you get spoiled when a force is in the group and decide that it's their job to do look after you and that you should no longer bother try to take care of yourself.



I want you to try saying that when S Rank missions are released. In that time, forces have to be on the ball or everyone suffers.

Also, I don't know what version of the game you're playing but how does one use an antimate when paralyzed (you can't move), shocked (can't use items), sleeping (can't move again)? I do see where you are coming from, and that's fine. And yes, it is stupid when you see people running around with silence, debuff, or damage over time.

Once again, this goes back to the "Forces have to be on the ball" thing. Sure you can use mates. I'm also pretty sure your comments are made knowing that you all have found a comfort zone in A level missions. But come S level missions, Forces are your best friends, but they also have to keep active as well. If anyone thinks for a moment you can handle an S level with just mates, I only have one thing to say: Good luck if you want that S Grade.

[Kent]

On 2006-11-26 06:03, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-11-25 19:45, FenixStryk wrote:
It's their job!


No. It's not.



Actually, it is. Part of it, at least.

If you're any part Force, and you don't have Resta... Go get it, change types, or play something else. I think it's very clear that Forces who don't make an honest effort to keep their teammates alive, aren't exactly welcome in PSU.

People who refuse to try and heal promptly as a Force, are people who don't understand what the different types in the game can do. Your job, in your role, is to use whatever part of your capability is currently necessary for the mission to proceed smoothly. For Forces, that does equate to having attack techniques thrown about to make things die, but it also equates to needing you to try and keep everyone alive, because you can do that more efficiently, by far, than any other type in the game. In all seriousness, is it that hard to understand?

[Spellbinder]

I want you to try saying that when S Rank missions are released. In that time, forces have to be on the ball or everyone suffers.

Also, I don't know what version of the game you're playing but how does one use an antimate when paralyzed (you can't move), shocked (can't use items), sleeping (can't move again)? I do see where you are coming from, and that's fine. And yes, it is stupid when you see people running around with silence, debuff, or damage over time.

Once again, this goes back to the "Forces have to be on the ball" thing. Sure you can use mates. I'm also pretty sure your comments are made knowing that you all have found a comfort zone in A level missions. But come S level missions, Forces are your best friends, but they also have to keep active as well. If anyone thinks for a moment you can handle an S level with just mates, I only have one thing to say: Good luck if you want that S Grade.

As a Force who plays through S Rank missions, I have to agree 100%

[Zaft]

IMO, use mates to stay alive, not to constantly keep yourself healed. The force should be healing you, that is true, but you should be making sure that you don't die by using mates. I play both force and hunter (it depends on what the guild needs for the day) and I can say that as a hunter, it's annoying when the force doesn't heal, but as a force, it's even MORE annoying and plain rude when the hunter doesn't use monomates when he's getting the piss smacked out of him by some oversized, deformed freakshow of a monster.

But yah, that's my opinion. Cookies anyone?

[Shadow_Wing]

Being the only job who has access to Resta in the 1st place I believe that Forces are meant to heal as well. In the new missions, you hope to hell that your force is willing to heal cause even as a Ranger I get hit a lot due to faster mobs and mobs that are just plainly pissed at me.

It's rather stupid for anyone to think people can rely solely on items, hell if I did that my average cost per mission would be in the 4000-5000 range due to my PP charge and item cost, cause they only go so far and also not very cost effective.

I think it's ridiculous when I team with a Force that refuses to heal cause they feel that it isn't their job, but sorry it is as well. If you're playing a force use it to it's full potential and not half of it. As an added note, the people who can fully maximize their class' abilities are the most memorable teammates.

[McLaughlin]

(In response to the Original Post)

If you're at 8 HP, use a Trimate. Don't run through the mob of enemies screaming "Heal me!!!". That's idiotic.

You shouldn't be relying on other people. If the Force isn't doing it don't pester them, do it yourself. Or, don't get hit.

And, at 50% HP I'm still at over 700, so no. They should'nt have to heal me at 50%. If I'm in the yellow I'll heal myself so I don't cost the team an S-Rank. If I get healed, Hooray! If not, oh well.

And who the hell buys Trimates? Make them yourself.

[LocGaw]

OK, this discussion is moot. It has been replayed way to many times...

Also, what is with the flambaiting? All players on uni 1+2? Xbox people suck???

[Authenticate]

I don't see why a Force wouldn't use Resta as it was needed. Then again, I don't like using techs as a source of damage. Feels slow and clunky. That's why my force is kind of on hold right now. It's boring playing support with only Resta and Reverser.

[Tahldon]

In this situations Fenix I'd have to say that that guy was a bad force.

It clearly states in the class description that Forces are a "Support" class. So what kind of idiot would take on a support class and not be willing to support people? That's the reason he has buffs, debuffs, and healing spells.

I play that support role all the way. Whenever I'm in a party it's automatic nurse mode for me. I watch other player's life bars more than they do and I often know what status effect they have before they can even ask for reverser. I know which ones I can let roll on for a while for the sake of PP and which ones are hazardous. A force that's shocked will be alright and a hunter that's silenced will be alright.. stuff like that.

I've ceen forces with those neat little yellow, blue, red, or orange rods and I tend to be weary of them. Why you ask? Because they don't have Resta and Reverser at hand. Switching wands is dangerous business when it comes to an all out battle. All of my rods are green, we all know why. There's Resta and Reverser on it (lvl 20 mind you). It's not practical to me to put 2 spells on a rod for a measly 4% damage boost. Forces who do that are wasting to me.. there are 8 slots going to waste, that just drives me nuts.

I don't mind healing, like I said Forces are support classes. Before you can even say that you have a status effect, before YOU see it it's already gone playing with me. Most forces let their team run around with that little blue or red down arrow by their buddy's names, since I watch life bars, anything there drives me nuts.
Often when hunters take a buff pill and the arrow is going up, I often cast reverser like crazy cause I think it's something bad and I'm accustomed to not seeing anything there at all. (I've had this joke played on me before. Only a good force would react to it.) It's a cruel joke but it shows how alert your FO is. At least in my eyes anyway.

But even so a Fo's job is supposed to be support. I also like it when the HUNTERS can pitch in and police a buddy too. It drives me crazy when I run around and heal everyone and cast reverser without even a bit of lip and when I get stunned or fall asleep everyone stands there looking at me. Makes me wanna choke someone! It's much appreciated, HUNTERS, when you can help the Force out every now and again in tight situations. Makes a good party.

Though, Fenix, I understand where you're coming from. But since I keep people healed and their statuses cleared and feel it's my job and take pride in doing so. Sometimes I get a little irked when people ASK me. It's more or less like, I'm a Force I'll heal you, you don't even have to ask. If you have to ASK then it's like saying "Force you aren't doing your job." You know? Oftentimes if it's someone I haven't played with I'll tell them "Don't worry man. I got you." and that's all there is to it.

Moral of the story? Forces should heal, you're a support class, stop being stupid.

So if you guys are ever looking for a good force (Xbox 360) just look for me. I don't mind, really as long as it's on "Set in Order" and no one's lower than Lvl 40. (It's hard to heal people when babysitting a lower level, they have less damage and pull attention from the other players. It's a task.)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tahldon on 2006-11-26 12:49 ]</font>

[Eternal_Drake]

Yeah fenix is definately wrong here. If the guy doesnt feel like healing you he doesn't have to, if you don't like it make your own party and boot any forces that dont heal as much as you want. Granted, you will be in a ranger/hunter only party, at least you won't have to deal with forces who only heal you sometimes.

[Vhex]

When dealing with a no-heal force, I find the simplest way to teach him/her a lesson is to stop asking for heals, and allow yourself to die, than withdrawl. They will learn that part of being a force means giving support, and if they fail to do so, their Ranks will take the hit. I find that most forces heal gladly, often fighting for the chance, since it levels up their resta. If you don't get a heal right away it might just be that they don't feel like switching rods at the moment. Carry Mates and the problem is solved. Forces should help you, but don't rely on them completely, sometimes they are busy with enemies and don't have time to keep an eye on your HP gauge.

[Wallin]

On 2006-11-26 07:43, drmcst45 wrote:
*You can find various mono/di/tri-mates as well as Star Atomizers along the way.

Hell i can find like 10 monomates a run! you dont even have to buy the crap


On 2006-11-26 08:04, Arieta wrote:
"Waste" mates? Puuuuleeez. They're so common, you can just do Mad creatures C once and walk out with a full supply of them.


On 2006-11-26 09:04, AlieNxxxxxxxx wrote:
Use a monomate...

First of all, we're talking about A rank missions, level 40+ monsters, and hunters who are also over level 40 and have over 1,200 HP. So to heal yourself to full you'd need at least 8 monomates, and that's only assuming that over the course of slaying over at least 50 monsters that you only took 1,200 points of damage when the monsters are hitting for well between 50-200 each hit (and don't even say that Hunters need to learn to dodge - when you have monsters spawning in groups of 3-6 at a time and some of them are casters, #@$@ happens).

And Fenix's post pointed out that the entire group needed to be healed. That's 40 monomates total gone because the Force wouldn't heal TWICE. So when the hunters replenish their stock they wasted 400 meseta EACH because the Force wouldn't spend 10 meseta on a recharge, and that only covers the monomates, and again assumes that they only used 8 throughout the entire mission.

Mates are everywhere and you can get X per run? I don't think so - maybe solo you can, but certainly not on A level missions. Even if 1 type of mate dropped every 5 monsters, then out of 50 only 10 dropped, and because the loot is set to random/order and mates are mixed into the rotation, out of 6 people (including the Force), two people only received one mate assuming somehow everyone did get one in order, but more than likely there were people who didn't receive any at all, and because of how the universe works, the Force probably received two of them.

Going to Mad Creatures C and crafting them is a poor excuse for the "abundant source of mates" because it means you have to leave the group in order to get them after every single run. So now you send all 5 Hunters back to their rooms and to Parum while the Force twidles his thumbs waiting for them all to come back 10 minutes later because the Force doesn't want to spend an extra 100-200 meseta on recharges to heal? * golf clap *

Meanwhile the Force doesn't do anything in battle except stand in the back tossing spells from a distance and laughing at everyone else without a care in the world. /remove_partymember

[Dihnekis]

I'm a force as well, and I'd say this was probably the case of a bad force. I always heal, because it is fun. I chose the force class because I like to help out and be the one who has everyone's back, the one who is there to make the important heals and reverses when someone is paralyzed and at low HP.

I just hate it when people are ungrateful. I will spam resta like mad, keep everyone from all status effects, run through mobs to save people, and seldom to i get a simple "ty".

It may be our job, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't appreciate us. Say thank you when we save your ass damnit, I'd do the same to you.

[Randomness]

On 2006-11-26 12:31, Tahldon wrote:
In this situations Fenix I'd have to say that that guy was a bad force.

It clearly states in the class description that Forces are a "Support" class. So what kind of idiot would take on a support class and not be willing to support people? That's the reason he has buffs, debuffs, and healing spells.

I play that support role all the way. Whenever I'm in a party it's automatic nurse mode for me. I watch other player's life bars more than they do and I often know what status effect they have before they can even ask for reverser. I know which ones I can let roll on for a while for the sake of PP and which ones are hazardous. A force that's shocked will be alright and a hunter that's silenced will be alright.. stuff like that.

I've ceen forces with those neat little yellow, blue, red, or orange rods and I tend to be weary of them. Why you ask? Because they don't have Resta and Reverser at hand. Switching wands is dangerous business when it comes to an all out battle. All of my rods are green, we all know why. There's Resta and Reverser on it (lvl 20 mind you). It's not practical to me to put 2 spells on a rod for a measly 4% damage boost. Forces who do that are wasting to me.. there are 8 slots going to waste, that just drives me nuts.

I don't mind healing, like I said Forces are support classes. Before you can even say that you have a status effect, before YOU see it it's already gone playing with me. Most forces let their team run around with that little blue or red down arrow by their buddy's names, since I watch life bars, anything there drives me nuts.
Often when hunters take a buff pill and the arrow is going up, I often cast reverser like crazy cause I think it's something bad and I'm accustomed to not seeing anything there at all. (I've had this joke played on me before. Only a good force would react to it.) It's a cruel joke but it shows how alert your FO is. At least in my eyes anyway.

But even so a Fo's job is supposed to be support. I also like it when the HUNTERS can pitch in and police a buddy too. It drives me crazy when I run around and heal everyone and cast reverser without even a bit of lip and when I get stunned or fall asleep everyone stands there looking at me. Makes me wanna choke someone! It's much appreciated, HUNTERS, when you can help the Force out every now and again in tight situations. Makes a good party.

Though, Fenix, I understand where you're coming from. But since I keep people healed and their statuses cleared and feel it's my job and take pride in doing so. Sometimes I get a little irked when people ASK me. It's more or less like, I'm a Force I'll heal you, you don't even have to ask. If you have to ASK then it's like saying "Force you aren't doing your job." You know? Oftentimes if it's someone I haven't played with I'll tell them "Don't worry man. I got you." and that's all there is to it.

Moral of the story? Forces should heal, you're a support class, stop being stupid.

So if you guys are ever looking for a good force (Xbox 360) just look for me. I don't mind, really as long as it's on "Set in Order" and no one's lower than Lvl 40. (It's hard to heal people when babysitting a lower level, they have less damage and pull attention from the other players. It's a task.)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tahldon on 2006-11-26 12:49 ]</font>


Regarding the bit about elemental rods, I do that, but not for the bonus, but because it color-codes them in my palette.

[Genobee]

I love how a force will bitch when a Hunter hits a mob across the room, but we become the criminals when we ask for a heal cause we are trying to keep the monsters together and getting beaten to death.

[SoiFong]

On 2006-11-26 12:31, Tahldon wrote:


It clearly states in the class description that Forces are a "Support" class. So what kind of idiot would take on a support class and not be willing to support people? That's the reason he has buffs, debuffs, and healing spells.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tahldon on 2006-11-26 12:49 ]</font>


Acutally it states, and I quote:

"A type geared toward TECHNICs use. Allows advanced players to play a variety of different roles from powerful attacks to healing and support"


Im sorry to say this but ...
You are reading what you want to see ... I see the words "Variety" and "powerful attacks" .. not just "healing and support".. Many other people too are looking at this and blowing it way out of proportion... I could argue PP costs, monomate costs, exp penalties and whatever else until I am blue in the face.. However the point remains this.. This isnt FFXI .. where Whitemage was said IN ITS DESCRIPTION, to be the healer of the game. There is no Blackmage here, there is no <insert color of the rainbow here> mage period.

People have the freedom to play according to their style, Phantasy star conveniently lumped all of its usable spells into one category to allow for maximized customizable game play. Personally I am not going to fault a Force for being strictly a DD. For the most part I ignore that a Force is even there when they pop into my parties... If they choose to heal .. Then fine, I am grateful.. If not, they can at least help eat up some of the damage and/or help me kill the monsters quicker. The only thing I loathe is inactivity... Doing nothing at all is the one surefire way of getting kicked out of my party.

....

As for the OP .. Please tell me you were exaggerating about running around with only 8HP for that long... If you were trying to prove that the Force sucked, or pressure the force into doing things your way, then by my book you were in the wrong. You ran too close to ruining a S rank because of your stubbornness to adapt. I’m sorry .. If you can heal yourself, do it, and don’t be a punk trying to prove some point by running the risk of dying. Discuss it after the mission.. When it is appropriate, that way you can save face and clearly state your opinions and decide whether you or the Force should move on.

As much as it pains me to do so, those actions alone make me side with the Force instead.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SoiFong on 2006-11-26 14:53 ]</font>

[Silver_Wyrm]

as a ranger (though I have hunters as well) I rarely get hit so my mates are often maxed and im in no danger of dying but...regardless, if Im at 50%, theres no fight going around and the force is just sitting on his ass looking pretty, I often question "why not heal?" there is absolutely no reason to not top peopel off between battles, usually a single resta will do it fine. I play all three classes (though ranger is my main) and honestly it isnt hard to swap wands/staves and lay down a quick resta, theres nothing to it.

I dont see any reason why he wouldnt have healed you unless he found you to be annoying for asking for resta, which some forces tend to be oversensitive about.

[KiteWolfwood]

My friend is a force an we always party so I don't have to worry about heals. He gets pissed at me when I use mates and stuff cause he wants the resta exp lol.

[Tarathiel]

leave it to the PC'ers to discriminate against 360'ers they just jealous of our mad skizzizzles

[FenixStryk]

Lots of people are voting for The Force based entirely on the 8 HP thing, so let me clear a few things up.

I went from around 500 HP to 8 from a really bad caster combo.
When I DID hit 8 HP, it was about 15 seconds into me already asking for a heal.
The entire party wasn't much better off.
I used a Trimate after I got knocked over and into 8 HP since it was too risky.
I have at least 2 Scape Dolls on me at all times, so if I die, nothing happens to the rank.

Despite ALL of that, I STILL agree that 8 HP is too risky, but if the Force would've been on top of things and healed me and the entire party when someone went under 50%, it wouldn't've gotten to be such a gamble. It's basically a mix of the Force refusing to heal and me relying on a stubborn Force. We were on different pages, so both parties ended up losing.

[FenixStryk]

On 2006-11-26 06:03, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-11-25 19:45, FenixStryk wrote:
It's their job!No. It's not.Yes, it IS. Forces are the ONLY class with the ability to heal. Hunters and Rangers have to rely on a less efficient method of healing if Forces aren't present, and this method is expensive. If a Force IS present, and they refuse to heal, they're risking rank losses and simply giving the party a bad rash.

I was a FOcast, and during that time, it took me about 3 seconds to unequip my bow, whip out my Light Slyrod and cast Resta/Reverser. This guy took between 5x to 10x as long to do this. It's not right to gamble over something this drastic.

Until Hunters and Rangers can use Resta, a Force will always be a support class before an attack class. That's all there is to it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: FenixStryk on 2006-11-26 16:39 ]</font>

[Yoiyami]

On 2006-11-26 16:34, FenixStryk wrote:
Lots of people are voting for The Force based entirely on the 8 HP thing, so let me clear a few things up.

I went from around 500 HP to 8 from a really bad caster combo.
When I DID hit 8 HP, it was about 15 seconds into me already asking for a heal.
The entire party wasn't much better off.
I used a Trimate after I got knocked over and into 8 HP since it was too risky.
I have at least 2 Scape Dolls on me at all times, so if I die, nothing happens to the rank.

Despite ALL of that, I STILL agree that 8 HP is too risky, but if the Force would've been on top of things and healed me and the entire party when someone went under 50%, it wouldn't've gotten to be such a gamble. It's basically a mix of the Force refusing to heal and me relying on a stubborn Force. We were on different pages, so both parties ended up losing.



Yeah, you both were on different pages, plus communication issues. See, personally, I don't mind healing when I'm on my force. I find it hard to do so, however, when the responsibility of taking care of everyone is forced upon me whether I want to or not. Very unfair.

So, the end-all solution, really, is to ask if the person doesn't mind being/is a support force instead of telling them "Be on top of things and heal" as soon as you see their little wand or staff. If you're ignored, then it's safe to say that the person is rude (or your insult of choice) and you did try to have respect. Chances are though, you'll get a lot of positive responses if you do ask the person if they don't mind. Just because you had the decency to do that. And with that said, even though you WERE somewhat rude, the force could have at least said that they didn't want to. So it was an error on both parts, like you said.

So, problem solved. <3

[Wallin]

On 2006-11-26 16:38, FenixStryk wrote:
Yes, it IS.

I'm not really switching sides here, but no, it's not. A Force does not have to heal just because they have the spell anymore than you feel you don't have to heal even though you have the items.

In terms of efficiency and cost, yes, the Force should heal. If they don't want to though, for whatever reason, then that is their right as a class that has spells besides healing. Forces can do large amounts of damage, sometimes more than Hunters, and if it's their play style to be as trigger happy as a Ranger, yet actually do noticeable damage, then you have no say in that.

You can't make a character play in a certain way anymore than they should be able to control you. If the Force told you as a Hunter, "I don't want to heal you guys, pretend I'm not here as a Force, so please only use handguns so you don't take any damage," would you do it because the Force asked you to over and over?

The Force is trying to take on the role of a Ranger or Hunter, but from a distance. If you think that's wrong, you're entitled to that opinion, but it's an opinion and not a fact. Forces don't have to heal if they don't want to, and if you don't like Forces like that, then you have to find another one. If the rest of the group didn't care either, then you just need a different group to suit your needs.

I don't like Forces that don't heal either, it's a matter of preference, but we really have to just deal with it or move on. And in terms of "freedom of playability" I don't agree with SoiFong to some degree because if I saw a Hunter that did nothing but use his handgun for measly damage on an A rank mission, especially on an A rank mission, I'd find them just useless to the group as the Force that doesn't heal. "Well my style of playing is that I don't die. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif"..... * bangs head on desk * It's not so bad at lower levels when monomates actually heal for useful amounts, but at that point a Force and a Hunter are almost the same. A rank missions, however, are significantly different, and there are certain roles I expect from classes for efficiency and economic reasons.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wallin on 2006-11-26 17:02 ]</font>

[VelosofLight]

Yeah, meh, in the PC version I've had good luck with Forces, but they've all been personal friends. I'm hoping with some Expert classes around, though, it'll suck less. I'm making my Newman Hunter into a Wartecher, at least.

[Beamther0x]

Well you've gotta understand forces too. Was resta on the wand/staff that he was using? Oftentimes (for me at least, it really bugs me) when I switch wands it takes a considerable amount of time for those spells to light up and become usable, and then switching back too. If a force doesnt have resta on the rod hes attacking with he'll be reluctant to switch (forces like to attack too). Resta may be cheaper for you than using a mate, but I know that I (as a force) get really annoyed when a hunter cant dodge a hit and is expecting me to heal him every minute because he gets hit so much. One time during a Desert Terror A run i was healing hunters nonstop (for realz, no fakeys). Perhaps to start a little good blood between hunters and forces a hunter can give a regalito of a photon charge to his force to kind of say "here, please heal me, and use this if you run out of pp from healing." But its most important to remember that RESTA is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. If youre damaged and the force is nowhere near you, use a mate please, or if you want healing at least stop fighting close range (and taking more hits!) and come up close to youre force. I know im a bit biased towards the force side but I know there are good hunters out there too, just, dont blame your force if you didnt want to use a mate. I've played hunter too and I know how helpful RESTA can be, but I also took care of myself while the force was attacking.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-26 19:10, Eternal_Drake wrote:
Forces can play a variety of ways, from nuker to support to healwhore. It is not their job to heal you, and you are just being a stereotyping self-important faggot when you say it is their job to heal you. If they do CHOOSE to heal you, you had best thank them. If not, stock up on your mates and scapes faggot.



No it's definatly their job, Play an S rank mission, if you don't heal everyone dies, Monsters hit realy fucking hard and will bring a lvl 60 hunter down to half health easily in a mater of seconds, and no ammount of mates can heal hunters, Trimates and Diamates cost a shit ton more then a forces PP, Face it, If your a the only class with healing and support spells, Guess what your a healing and support class, Sure forces can choose to not heal, but I can choose to kick your ass out of my party, Either be the healwhore and nuke when you can, or have fun soloing.

[PALRAPPYS]

Whoa... Fenix maybe you should make sure you get in a group with 2 forces next time. That way if you get a crappy force who won't heal you at the least maybe the other will (should, in fact). Heck, I find myself abusing resta- I heal anyone who has less than 80%. >_> If you want I guess at least I could do some runs with you... but I'm still pretty weak, so I would doubt. XD

[Eternal_Drake]

On 2006-11-26 19:21, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:10, Eternal_Drake wrote:
Forces can play a variety of ways, from nuker to support to healwhore. It is not their job to heal you, and you are just being a stereotyping self-important faggot when you say it is their job to heal you. If they do CHOOSE to heal you, you had best thank them. If not, stock up on your mates and scapes faggot.



No it's definatly their job, Play an S rank mission, if you don't heal everyone dies, Monsters hit realy fucking hard and will bring a lvl 60 hunter down to half health easily in a mater of seconds, and no ammount of mates can heal hunters, Trimates and Diamates cost a shit ton more then a forces PP, Face it, If your a the only class with healing and support spells, Guess what your a healing and support class, Sure forces can choose to not heal, but I can choose to kick your ass out of my party, Either be the healwhore and nuke when you can, or have fun soloing.


Please include factors such as S rank missions considering we dont have them yet.

And hey, if we have S rank missions, we have advanced classes. And that means that if any hunter wants to bitch about a lack of healing, they can go Wartecher and shut the hell up.

And please do kick all the forces who arent healwhores out your party, I personally don't give a shit, I'm a ranger.

And please stop calling forces the only support class, since that is all rangers are.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-26 20:28, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:21, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:10, Eternal_Drake wrote:
Forces can play a variety of ways, from nuker to support to healwhore. It is not their job to heal you, and you are just being a stereotyping self-important faggot when you say it is their job to heal you. If they do CHOOSE to heal you, you had best thank them. If not, stock up on your mates and scapes faggot.



No it's definatly their job, Play an S rank mission, if you don't heal everyone dies, Monsters hit realy fucking hard and will bring a lvl 60 hunter down to half health easily in a mater of seconds, and no ammount of mates can heal hunters, Trimates and Diamates cost a shit ton more then a forces PP, Face it, If your a the only class with healing and support spells, Guess what your a healing and support class, Sure forces can choose to not heal, but I can choose to kick your ass out of my party, Either be the healwhore and nuke when you can, or have fun soloing.


Please include factors such as S rank missions considering we dont have them yet.

And hey, if we have S rank missions, we have advanced classes. And that means that if any hunter wants to bitch about a lack of healing, they can go Wartecher and shut the hell up.

And please do kick all the forces who arent healwhores out your party, I personally don't give a shit, I'm a ranger.

And please stop calling forces the only support class, since that is all rangers are.



Wow you truley are an idiot? SO if forces don't wanna heal, cool they can chnge thier class to hunter. Please ForteFighters are the forfront of damage, If you can heal, your a heal bitch. Go forbid people actualy play a class.

[Wallin]

On 2006-11-26 21:19, Genobee wrote:
Wow you truley are an idiot? SO if forces don't wanna heal, cool they can chnge thier class to hunter. Please ForteFighters are the forfront of damage, If you can heal, your a heal bitch. Go forbid people actualy play a class.

What next, are you going to tell people what race and expert class to pick and what weapon type they should be using and what elemental effect to put on it? You can't control a Force to heal if it's not their play style (as stupid and unhelpful a style in a party as that may be), either kick them out or leave the group.

I agree that Forces should heal, but restricting people and putting labels on them is what causes everyone to get pissed off at each other in the first place.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-26 21:50, Wallin wrote:

On 2006-11-26 21:19, Genobee wrote:
Wow you truley are an idiot? SO if forces don't wanna heal, cool they can chnge thier class to hunter. Please ForteFighters are the forfront of damage, If you can heal, your a heal bitch. Go forbid people actualy play a class.

What next, are you going to tell people what race and expert class to pick and what weapon type they should be using and what elemental effect to put on it? You can't control a Force to heal if it's not their play style (as stupid and unhelpful a style in a party as that may be), either kick them out or leave the group.

I agree that Forces should heal, but restricting people and putting labels on them is what causes everyone to get pissed off at each other in the first place.



thats what I said, I'll kick you if you don't heal, if your in a group you must help the group, otherwise your a waste of space. All I'm saying is don't go in a group if your not gonna help it. IS that so much to ask? IF you wanna play how you wanna play then solo. Thats all I'm saying.

[Wallin]

On 2006-11-26 21:55, Genobee wrote:
thats what I said, I'll kick you if you don't heal, if your in a group you must help the group, otherwise your a waste of space. All I'm saying is don't go in a group if your not gonna help it. IS that so much to ask? IF you wanna play how you wanna play then solo. Thats all I'm saying.

Agreed. I think this topic is getting to me, it's been open way too long now... LOL

[Eternal_Drake]

On 2006-11-26 21:19, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 20:28, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:21, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:10, Eternal_Drake wrote:
Forces can play a variety of ways, from nuker to support to healwhore. It is not their job to heal you, and you are just being a stereotyping self-important faggot when you say it is their job to heal you. If they do CHOOSE to heal you, you had best thank them. If not, stock up on your mates and scapes faggot.



No it's definatly their job, Play an S rank mission, if you don't heal everyone dies, Monsters hit realy fucking hard and will bring a lvl 60 hunter down to half health easily in a mater of seconds, and no ammount of mates can heal hunters, Trimates and Diamates cost a shit ton more then a forces PP, Face it, If your a the only class with healing and support spells, Guess what your a healing and support class, Sure forces can choose to not heal, but I can choose to kick your ass out of my party, Either be the healwhore and nuke when you can, or have fun soloing.


Please include factors such as S rank missions considering we dont have them yet.

And hey, if we have S rank missions, we have advanced classes. And that means that if any hunter wants to bitch about a lack of healing, they can go Wartecher and shut the hell up.

And please do kick all the forces who arent healwhores out your party, I personally don't give a shit, I'm a ranger.

And please stop calling forces the only support class, since that is all rangers are.



Wow you truley are an idiot? SO if forces don't wanna heal, cool they can chnge thier class to hunter. Please ForteFighters are the forfront of damage, If you can heal, your a heal bitch. Go forbid people actualy play a class.


So if all guntechers, wartechers, protransers, and fortechers can heal, they are all automatically heal whores instead of whatever their actual role is by your logic. So then, if you aren't a fortefighter / figunner / fortegunner, why play any class other than Newman Fortecher? Or do the figunner/fortegunner have to spam Star Atomizers to support you too?

Also:
truly*
change*
their*
forefront*
God*
actually*

[Wallin]

On 2006-11-26 21:57, Eternal_Drake wrote: So if all guntechers, wartechers, protransers, and fortechers can heal, they are all automatically heal whores instead of whatever their actual role is by your logic. So then, if you aren't a fortefighter / figunner / fortegunner, why play any class other than Newman Fortecher? Or do the figunner/fortegunner have to spam Star Atomizers to support you too?

Protransers are not technic users, why does everyone think this??? LOL

"Protransers take pride in their ability to skillfully utilize traps in battle. They are the only class without the ability to use any S-Rank weapons; however, they are able to use all types of traps including those of much greater power than normal. They cannot use Techniques, but can have Skills and Bullets up to level 30."

And I don't know how much I agree because the role of a Wartecher and such is completely ambiguous. Seriously, when do they heal?

[VelosofLight]

People think Protransers can use TECHNICS because it requires Force levels to paly as one, that's why.

[Wallin]

On 2006-11-26 22:05, VelosofLight wrote:
People think Protransers can use TECHNICS because it requires Force levels to paly as one, that's why.



Ah. I see. . . does anyone even want to play a Protranser anyway? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Arieta]

On 2006-11-26 10:17, Lyrise wrote:

Also, I don't know what version of the game you're playing but how does one use an antimate when paralyzed (you can't move), shocked (can't use items), sleeping (can't move again)? I do see where you are coming from, and that's fine. And yes, it is stupid when you see people running around with silence, debuff, or damage over time.



I don't know what game you're playiung, because YOU CAN USE ANIMATES WHEN SHOCKED! I can't believe so many people think you can't, but you can. I do it all the time. I never said sleep, so I'm not sure where that came from. I said Silence and paralyzed (which is shock to me).

[Candor]

i love the logic. If you're not healing then you're booted. Great now i lose some good damage and i STILL don't get healed, but at least i tought that force a lesson.

[Eternal_Drake]

On 2006-11-26 22:04, Wallin wrote:

On 2006-11-26 21:57, Eternal_Drake wrote: So if all guntechers, wartechers, protransers, and fortechers can heal, they are all automatically heal whores instead of whatever their actual role is by your logic. So then, if you aren't a fortefighter / figunner / fortegunner, why play any class other than Newman Fortecher? Or do the figunner/fortegunner have to spam Star Atomizers to support you too?

Protransers are not technic users, why does everyone think this??? LOL

"Protransers take pride in their ability to skillfully utilize traps in battle. They are the only class without the ability to use any S-Rank weapons; however, they are able to use all types of traps including those of much greater power than normal. They cannot use Techniques, but can have Skills and Bullets up to level 30."

And I don't know how much I agree because the role of a Wartecher and such is completely ambiguous. Seriously, when do they heal?


Well they have the ability to heal, and as Genobee so eloquently pointed out, " If you can heal, your a heal bitch."

Also I just assumed protransers could use technics because the 5 force levels, lol, as posted above. I guess they would be with the ranger types and spam stars on the fortefighters too.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Eternal_Drake on 2006-11-26 22:09 ]</font>

[Carbinne]

The whole 'kick forces not healing' thing is really the tip of the iceberg. Pretty soon we'll have elitists who refuse to run parties with people who get *hit*! I can hear the snobs already:

"Clearly, if you are getting hit at all you must *suck* at this game (as needing healing is a mark of weakness). Therefore, any player that gets hit by anything, even once, is inferior and garbage and a "waste of space" who needs to be blacklisted, kicked from my party and immediately reported to SEGA for poor sportsmanship. People who are unwilling to give all the effort than they can possibly summon in order to maintain maximal DPS and loot optimization don't belong in my party. Why can't they understand this? Now excuse me while I grind my 6 star rifles up to +10."

And then later on when they change classes to Hunter and get hit up the wazoo they suddenly shut up all of a sudden. This is MMO!

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-26 21:57, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 21:19, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 20:28, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:21, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:10, Eternal_Drake wrote:
Forces can play a variety of ways, from nuker to support to healwhore. It is not their job to heal you, and you are just being a stereotyping self-important faggot when you say it is their job to heal you. If they do CHOOSE to heal you, you had best thank them. If not, stock up on your mates and scapes faggot.



No it's definatly their job, Play an S rank mission, if you don't heal everyone dies, Monsters hit realy fucking hard and will bring a lvl 60 hunter down to half health easily in a mater of seconds, and no ammount of mates can heal hunters, Trimates and Diamates cost a shit ton more then a forces PP, Face it, If your a the only class with healing and support spells, Guess what your a healing and support class, Sure forces can choose to not heal, but I can choose to kick your ass out of my party, Either be the healwhore and nuke when you can, or have fun soloing.


Please include factors such as S rank missions considering we dont have them yet.

And hey, if we have S rank missions, we have advanced classes. And that means that if any hunter wants to bitch about a lack of healing, they can go Wartecher and shut the hell up.

And please do kick all the forces who arent healwhores out your party, I personally don't give a shit, I'm a ranger.

And please stop calling forces the only support class, since that is all rangers are.



Wow you truley are an idiot? SO if forces don't wanna heal, cool they can chnge thier class to hunter. Please ForteFighters are the forfront of damage, If you can heal, your a heal bitch. Go forbid people actualy play a class.


So if all guntechers, wartechers, protransers, and fortechers can heal, they are all automatically heal whores instead of whatever their actual role is by your logic. So then, if you aren't a fortefighter / figunner / fortegunner, why play any class other than Newman Fortecher? Or do the figunner/fortegunner have to spam Star Atomizers to support you too?

Also:
truly*
change*
their*
forefront*
God*
actually*



um yes Wartechers, and Guntechers are "HEALING SUPPORT CLASSES" they are not ment to deal damage, No I wouldn't expect it from a Fortetecher if there was a wartecher or a Guntecher in the group, but if they are they only casters in the group guess what their healing. Figunners, Protransers (which can't heal) and ForteGunners are "Crowd control"



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-26 22:17 ]</font>

[Wallin]

Figunners are crowd control? Because they can use guns? So then is a Guntecher is supposed to do crowd control and healing at the same time? Which one is the priority??? * freak out * I'm confused now.

[Eternal_Drake]

On 2006-11-26 22:15, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 21:57, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 21:19, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 20:28, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:21, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:10, Eternal_Drake wrote:
Forces can play a variety of ways, from nuker to support to healwhore. It is not their job to heal you, and you are just being a stereotyping self-important faggot when you say it is their job to heal you. If they do CHOOSE to heal you, you had best thank them. If not, stock up on your mates and scapes faggot.



No it's definatly their job, Play an S rank mission, if you don't heal everyone dies, Monsters hit realy fucking hard and will bring a lvl 60 hunter down to half health easily in a mater of seconds, and no ammount of mates can heal hunters, Trimates and Diamates cost a shit ton more then a forces PP, Face it, If your a the only class with healing and support spells, Guess what your a healing and support class, Sure forces can choose to not heal, but I can choose to kick your ass out of my party, Either be the healwhore and nuke when you can, or have fun soloing.


Please include factors such as S rank missions considering we dont have them yet.

And hey, if we have S rank missions, we have advanced classes. And that means that if any hunter wants to bitch about a lack of healing, they can go Wartecher and shut the hell up.

And please do kick all the forces who arent healwhores out your party, I personally don't give a shit, I'm a ranger.

And please stop calling forces the only support class, since that is all rangers are.



Wow you truley are an idiot? SO if forces don't wanna heal, cool they can chnge thier class to hunter. Please ForteFighters are the forfront of damage, If you can heal, your a heal bitch. Go forbid people actualy play a class.


So if all guntechers, wartechers, protransers, and fortechers can heal, they are all automatically heal whores instead of whatever their actual role is by your logic. So then, if you aren't a fortefighter / figunner / fortegunner, why play any class other than Newman Fortecher? Or do the figunner/fortegunner have to spam Star Atomizers to support you too?

Also:
truly*
change*
their*
forefront*
God*
actually*



um yes Wartechers, and Guntechers are "HEALING SUPPORT CLASSES" they are not ment to deal damage, No I wouldn't expect it from a Fortetecher if there was a wartecher or a Guntecher in the group, but if they are they only casters in the group guess what their healing. Figunners, Protransers (which can't heal) and ForteGunners are "Crowd control"



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-26 22:17 ]</font>

LOL @ war/gun techers = healing support classes. I can't even begin to understand why the 2 classes that are supposed to play a supporting role in combat should take healing precedence over the pure caster, but then again this is your logic we are dealing with.

So I suppose if you dont have any technic capable classes you expect all the non-fortefighters to spam Star Atomizers on you, since fortefighters are the only class that deal damage.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-26 22:30, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 22:15, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 21:57, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 21:19, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 20:28, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:21, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:10, Eternal_Drake wrote:
Forces can play a variety of ways, from nuker to support to healwhore. It is not their job to heal you, and you are just being a stereotyping self-important faggot when you say it is their job to heal you. If they do CHOOSE to heal you, you had best thank them. If not, stock up on your mates and scapes faggot.



No it's definatly their job, Play an S rank mission, if you don't heal everyone dies, Monsters hit realy fucking hard and will bring a lvl 60 hunter down to half health easily in a mater of seconds, and no ammount of mates can heal hunters, Trimates and Diamates cost a shit ton more then a forces PP, Face it, If your a the only class with healing and support spells, Guess what your a healing and support class, Sure forces can choose to not heal, but I can choose to kick your ass out of my party, Either be the healwhore and nuke when you can, or have fun soloing.


Please include factors such as S rank missions considering we dont have them yet.

And hey, if we have S rank missions, we have advanced classes. And that means that if any hunter wants to bitch about a lack of healing, they can go Wartecher and shut the hell up.

And please do kick all the forces who arent healwhores out your party, I personally don't give a shit, I'm a ranger.

And please stop calling forces the only support class, since that is all rangers are.



Wow you truley are an idiot? SO if forces don't wanna heal, cool they can chnge thier class to hunter. Please ForteFighters are the forfront of damage, If you can heal, your a heal bitch. Go forbid people actualy play a class.


So if all guntechers, wartechers, protransers, and fortechers can heal, they are all automatically heal whores instead of whatever their actual role is by your logic. So then, if you aren't a fortefighter / figunner / fortegunner, why play any class other than Newman Fortecher? Or do the figunner/fortegunner have to spam Star Atomizers to support you too?

Also:
truly*
change*
their*
forefront*
God*
actually*



um yes Wartechers, and Guntechers are "HEALING SUPPORT CLASSES" they are not ment to deal damage, No I wouldn't expect it from a Fortetecher if there was a wartecher or a Guntecher in the group, but if they are they only casters in the group guess what their healing. Figunners, Protransers (which can't heal) and ForteGunners are "Crowd control"



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-26 22:17 ]</font>

LOL @ war/gun techers = healing support classes. I can't even begin to understand why the 2 classes that are supposed to play a supporting role in combat should take healing precedence over the pure caster, but then again this is your logic we are dealing with.

So I suppose if you dont have any technic capable classes you expect all the non-fortefighters to spam Star Atomizers on you, since fortefighters are the only class that deal damage.



Dude realy I can't understand your Crack baby anrgly smashing face into key board train of thought? Where did I say they had to use Star atomizers? ForteTecher is the Pure Caster "WHICH MEANS THIER TECHS ACCUALY DO MORE DAMAGE!" Where as a lvl 20 resta can full heal anyone. But lvl 20 damage techs suck and do very little damage to monsters. Guntechers are designed to stay back use bullets and heal and buff, Wartechers a battle medics they try to stay in the fray and heal the melee classes. Fortegunners are sapose to disable other monsters so 10 delsibans aren't throwing megid at everyone, same as ProTransers and Figunners.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-26 22:48 ]</font>

[Eternal_Drake]

On 2006-11-26 22:45, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 22:30, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 22:15, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 21:57, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 21:19, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 20:28, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:21, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:10, Eternal_Drake wrote:
Forces can play a variety of ways, from nuker to support to healwhore. It is not their job to heal you, and you are just being a stereotyping self-important faggot when you say it is their job to heal you. If they do CHOOSE to heal you, you had best thank them. If not, stock up on your mates and scapes faggot.



No it's definatly their job, Play an S rank mission, if you don't heal everyone dies, Monsters hit realy fucking hard and will bring a lvl 60 hunter down to half health easily in a mater of seconds, and no ammount of mates can heal hunters, Trimates and Diamates cost a shit ton more then a forces PP, Face it, If your a the only class with healing and support spells, Guess what your a healing and support class, Sure forces can choose to not heal, but I can choose to kick your ass out of my party, Either be the healwhore and nuke when you can, or have fun soloing.


Please include factors such as S rank missions considering we dont have them yet.

And hey, if we have S rank missions, we have advanced classes. And that means that if any hunter wants to bitch about a lack of healing, they can go Wartecher and shut the hell up.

And please do kick all the forces who arent healwhores out your party, I personally don't give a shit, I'm a ranger.

And please stop calling forces the only support class, since that is all rangers are.



Wow you truley are an idiot? SO if forces don't wanna heal, cool they can chnge thier class to hunter. Please ForteFighters are the forfront of damage, If you can heal, your a heal bitch. Go forbid people actualy play a class.


So if all guntechers, wartechers, protransers, and fortechers can heal, they are all automatically heal whores instead of whatever their actual role is by your logic. So then, if you aren't a fortefighter / figunner / fortegunner, why play any class other than Newman Fortecher? Or do the figunner/fortegunner have to spam Star Atomizers to support you too?

Also:
truly*
change*
their*
forefront*
God*
actually*



um yes Wartechers, and Guntechers are "HEALING SUPPORT CLASSES" they are not ment to deal damage, No I wouldn't expect it from a Fortetecher if there was a wartecher or a Guntecher in the group, but if they are they only casters in the group guess what their healing. Figunners, Protransers (which can't heal) and ForteGunners are "Crowd control"



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-26 22:17 ]</font>

LOL @ war/gun techers = healing support classes. I can't even begin to understand why the 2 classes that are supposed to play a supporting role in combat should take healing precedence over the pure caster, but then again this is your logic we are dealing with.

So I suppose if you dont have any technic capable classes you expect all the non-fortefighters to spam Star Atomizers on you, since fortefighters are the only class that deal damage.



Dude realy I can't understand your Crack baby anrgly smashing face into key board train of thought? Where did I say they had to use Star atomizers? ForteTecher is the Pure Caster "WHICH MEANS THIER TECHS ACCUALY DO MORE DAMAGE!" Where as a lvl 20 resta can full heal anyone. But lvl 20 damage techs suck and do very little damage to monsters. Guntechers are designed to stay back use bullets and heal and buff, Wartechers a battle medics they try to stay in the fray and heal the melee classes. Fortegunners are sapose to disable other monsters so 10 delsibans aren't throwing megid at everyone, same as ProTransers and Figunners.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-26 22:48 ]</font>

About the star atomizer thing, I just figured it fit in since according to you every other class in the game is there only to support you. If you truly expect all the wartechers and guntechers to be healing you, you are going to be gravely disappointed.

[Legenden]

Ok, Im a low levlel force currently lvl 14 (job2) so I got a little experience beeing a force.
I like to heal as often as I can but sometimes that just aint so easy becouse:

1. Hunters tend to spread out and run as far away from me as they possibly can, witch might be a problem becouse my resta dont have a 00 range, and also when we are a full party I think hunters should understand that I might not always be close enough to heal them whenever they take some dammage. So look at your map hunters,..

2. Also sometimes mobs tend to do alot of dammage, and If I`m far away it might not always be possible for me to get there quick enough, so using a monomate/dimate/Trimate might be a good idea,, again, look at your map.

I`ll try to keep my team covered, and usually that`s no problem but try to use your brains, even if you are hunters and look at your map. If the force looks to be too far away (with the rest of the team) try to heal yourself, ask for heal or get back to party. And don`t forget your scapedoll:)

[FenixStryk]

I don't understand why you guys are saying what is and isn't a class' job. I said a Force's job is to heal, and I still stand by that. However, I NEVER said a Force's job isn't to cast attack spells. Your job is to use everything at your disposal when the time is right.

This is why Hunters use handguns against flying enemies, and why Rangers use spears and gun/blade combos when they run out of ammo. This is why Forces use Resta when their party is dying. Why should a Force not use Resta when their party is dying? That's as ignorant as a Hunter not using a handgun against Dimmagolus, or a Ranger refusing to have a melee weapon despite ammo depletion tendencies.

A Force's job is to heal the party. Their job is to also attack enemies, most notably bugs and bees. To abandon either side of the Force is to have dead weight. Don't be foolish, and accept your job, both the good and the bad. We do that IRL, too, y'know.

[Oxidation]

haha this thread turned into a flame war pretty much, i just heal when i can and when we are getting smacked around. However i will not baby sit a single person in the group due to low lvl/insufficient equipment/stupidity. And if you are that person and nobody else is having trouble, I'm gonna kick you so level up is possible elsewhere. I think of it as tough love http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ViciousXUSMC]

Nothing sucks more than like the guy said 2 post above me, having the hunters our of range (and the rangers too, they have less def and seem to get hit just as often) in a mix of chaos with dpsing, healing, dodging mobs, trying to aim my techs ect ect. I see 5 HP bars and in a moments notice one when drops I dont know wich person you are on the map. I will cast resta and if your in rage thats great, and you should be if you know you going to take a beating, but if your not you better come to me and not make go to you.

Its much easier for you to take 5 seconds and figure out what color arrow I am and locate it on the map and run that direction or stay near me, than it is for me to memorize 5 health bars and 5 arrows and try to put them together in a bind. Then ontop of that like said above and in every other post like this since day 1, its your responablity to keep yourself alive not mine.

Nobody has died on me yet and im lvl 49 so I do a great job healing, but when the day comes that I do run into the steriotyplical ramo hunter with 1* armor on and he dies its not my fault.

So in summary:

Memorize your Forces Arrow Color and keep an eye on it on your map

Have Mates on your shortcut bar and self heal if needed

Understand forces are not only support we are dpsers and quite honestly 99% of the time my dps is higher than the hunters and rangers anyways.

Understand our job is harder than yours, we have to aim our spells and they have a delay, no lock on for us, we need to tag mobs for xp, and also keep on our feet we have less hp and defense than you do.

Suppose that is all, not like one post matters in a sea of what will soon to be 10+ in a sea of what must already be 10+ threads about the same thing.

[gimbola]

from my experience so far ive never had THAT much trouble with forces. although there was 1 party where the force outright refused to heal... luckily i was party leader for that one AND we had 2 forces so we was alrite.

im only level 18 at the moment but i would assume a newman would be used to healing at this point??

[Ronzeru]

Fortefighters and Figunners are main damage dealers/tanks. Nothing to do with crowd control. And yes Guntecher is crowdcontrol/DD/healing. It's how I remember playing my RAmar back in PSO.... if you wanna play like shit and be selfish, go ahead. That's your own personal playstyle. Luckily, i'll play with a group of better friends than that, along with a force that actually heals and removes status effects.

[Zabot]

If you read the description of the types, it says that a force is an advanced class for those who know what they are doing, if you are a force, take responsibility in a sense, nuff said.

Peace

[Sychosis]

On 2006-11-26 19:17, Beamther0x wrote:
RESTA is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Since Fenix wants to play the blame game, blame SEGA for not separating your priests and mages.

Regardless of what you expect your forces to do, there are some who chose the class because they like nuking things with colorful fireworks. Like it or not they have a right to not heal you in any way if they don't feel like it. As long as they do something to contribute to the team they are doing their "job" in my opinion. I prefer to make healing my top priority, but that's MY choice.

A nuking force is no more detrimental to a team than another ranger. Yet I don't see anyone ranting on about useless rangers wasting party slots.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-27 05:49, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-11-26 19:17, Beamther0x wrote:
RESTA is a PRIVILEGE, not a right.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

Since Fenix wants to play the blame game, blame SEGA for not separating your priests and mages.

Regardless of what you expect your forces to do, there are some who chose the class because they like nuking things with colorful fireworks. Like it or not they have a right to not heal you in any way if they don't feel like it. As long as they do something to contribute to the team they are doing their "job" in my opinion. I prefer to make healing my top priority, but that's MY choice.

A nuking force is no more detrimental to a team than another ranger. Yet I don't see anyone ranting on about useless rangers wasting party slots.



because rangers are better at inflicting status then a force, like I said rangers are crowd control. Also rangers do more damage over time then a force.

[panzer_unit]

Fenix you really shouldn't have wasted all that time asking for heals and trying to make the Force get his act together. Give the guy his three strikes, then deal with the fact that you're in a group with a force that sucks. Personally I always heal as if I didn't have anyone around to back me up for health, I try to keep it defensive and use items whenever damage starts adding up or I have a moment to pop an antimate. I only really notice how much of a difference the Force made when I realize after the mission that I'm still fully stocked for healing.

Since I'm rich, I usually roll with full stacks of Sol & Star on hotkey too so I can cover for the force in a tight spot... if nothing else, EVERYONE doing serious missions should have Sol on hotkey, so you can at least un-freeze teammates the second they get frozen and let them heal themselves.

As an excuse for the force - just devil's advocate here - I find when I'm teammed with (or back when I was one for ProTracer reqs) forces that have to switch weapons to attack / heal, even when they're _trying_ to stay on top of things the swaps can be so slow as to be useless. I'm never surprised when a force who's armed to nuke (rod w/ all basics and ra's) goes totally slack on the healing side... by the time they can arm Resta it's too late.

[Merumeru]

XD yeesh, as was mentioned before, i cant wait til the hybrid force classes are around to see how often theyll be forced to stop laying down massive damage to heal you x.x omg wait dont forces have damage dealing attacks too? XD o well...

[PureEntropy]

I don't think there's a problem with being a nuker and support role all at once. It just takes moderation on the side of nuking. I'm a force on the 360 and I've got rod-switching down to a science. It's almost like chaining a combo of sorts. Fire off a fireball and while your character is in motion to fire the attack, switch rods to your healing rod, cast resta and switch back.

My main role, as I play it, is a supporter - so I don't mind THAT MUCH if I miss out on a couple EXP because I chose to Resta/Reverser instead of use Razonde.

There will be times where I'm tied up healing/debuffing one group while another group runs off to fight something else. At that point in time, I think it's understood that they'll have to heal themselves for the time being. Also, if you see yourself get into the yellow, I'd use a mate just incase I can't get there.

I will say this though, I have played in groups of 6 with another force character and quite often they simply go on their merry way playing like another tank. More power to them, but if they die because they're kissing some monster - I do not want to hear about how I didn't resta them in time.

[Sychosis]

On 2006-11-27 06:57, Genobee wrote:
because rangers are better at inflicting status then a force, like I said rangers are crowd control. Also rangers do more damage over time then a force.


Rangers are better at inflicting status, but in order to do so they sacrifice damage by using a shotgun or using bullets that deal less damage but offer a better status type like shocking a Vahra using lightning bullets. Or they can sacrifice the number of targets they hit by using a rifle.

As far as dealing damage while inflicting as many status problems to as many targets as possible, I'd say a nuker and ranger tie.

[panzer_unit]

If a ranger's got Lightning and Ice skills for their weapon they should NEVER be stuck dealing that bad elemental damage just to do a status effect.

lol @ "sacrifice damage by using a shotgun" ... shotguns do awesome damage _and_ statuses for small/medium monsters. Just run around point blanking monsters one or two times then moving on, rather than sticking to a target until it's down.

[AngelLight]

Forces are more then capable of rivaling damage on any other class...this stuff about their damage not being worth it is rubbish. On the other hand, a good force will counterbalance all of his or her's skills and use all of their available tools in order to win a mission. That does mean being both a good healer and a good damage dealer. The best forces I've seen are the ones who have soloed missions higher then C successfully and have practiced on their timing of their spells. You have to have your ranges down pat in your mind as a force....sweep in, and get a heal off in a serious situation, but you also have to have the timing down on your nukes...how fast does a spell cast, how fast does it move, know what your cast times are for each weapon and know how much you're going to be using (in PP) and how long you can sustain that (in the case of spamming attacks on a large target).

There's a reason why they call Forces the "advanced" class. Some people seem to not realize that.

However, it always drives me nuts that people will RUN AWAY from their forces while badly damaged...or will stand there and get zapped with debuffs all day instead of actually dodging an otherwise easy to avoid attack....expecting a force to pick up the slack for poor gameplay on their part. Follow that up with a general dose of bitching and moaning from ingrateful party members when they're not helping themselves by knowing what color their "heal sources" are on the mini map. If you're ganged up on, then that's understandable and a good force will be aware of the situation on the battlefield to know to swing by and pop off a heal or two followed by trying to clear out the gang up with things like shocks or freezes. But, if the hunter is constantly rushing headlong into a fight without waiting for his or her party (or just stupidly go into a group of mobs and pull all the aggro onto themselves while surrounded) then they either better be able to heal themselves or be prepared to die (and prolly be kicked by most parties I've seen talking on these forums). But dont blame the force if you suck....cause all that is doing is making the good forces very angry and less likely to PuG with people. If someone runs away from me and makes me waste restas then let them die...and I'm sure that any group would notice the longer kill times without a properly leveled nuking force going to work for them as well as giving a heal off. Embrace both sides of a force and you'll find both a happy force and a happy party with them.

And for the love of all that is holy, take some stinking dolls with you...they're not that expensive and they drop like crazy in places like LL (or the boards to make them).....your party will thank you should an accidental death happen.

[MayLee]

I am a Force and I always, always play my part as a healer. I was actually the one that held everything together in the Matoob boss fight, I would hang around or be extremely close to someone who is either lower level then me or someone who can't stand a fighting chance against a monster alone. I would be their freaking body gaurd, but that's alright because I''m usually the one finishing off the monsters.

I did, though, get mad at someone who was highly flammable; The guy would constantly catch on Fire in Matoob and run around in circles screaming....Okay..I can't catch up to this dude because HE'S RUNNING AROUND LIKE AN IDIOT. So if you run away from me while I'm trying to cast Resta or reverser on you, hey..that's your fault, Bub.(Wolverine growl)

But mostly I try my hardest to heal as much as I can but I don't babysit, either..I like to call myself a caring mother on PSU but damn, that's just too much.

[Eternal_Drake]

This thread really tempts me to make a pure nuker force, just to prove to retards like Fenix that forces can still very well be forces even if they dont wait on hand and knee to heal him.

[Sychosis]

On 2006-11-27 09:04, panzer_unit wrote:
If a ranger's got Lightning and Ice skills for their weapon they should NEVER be stuck dealing that bad elemental damage just to do a status effect.

lol @ "sacrifice damage by using a shotgun" ... shotguns do awesome damage _and_ statuses for small/medium monsters. Just run around point blanking monsters one or two times then moving on, rather than sticking to a target until it's down.



True, they shouldn't have to be stuck with bad elemental damage, but AFAIK shock lasts longer than freeze and is therefore a much better choice when trying to incapacitate enemies that only do physical attacks. I hope that once light bullets arrive rangers can get better choices for bad elemental match ups without losing any effectiveness (not sure how long stun/confusion lasts).

As for shotguns, I know first hand that shotguns at close range = one ****ed enemy. But like I said, you either get the ability to deal out status to multiple enemies at the cost of damage per target, or a single enemy where you sacrifice the number of status inflictable targets.

I'm not ragging on rangers, believe me, if I had the PAs to spread I'd try Guntecher as well. But IMO, when you combine the DPS per target, probability of status infliction per target, and usefulness of said status you see all classes even out in their usefulness to a party as far as attacking goes.

[Tetsuro]

I personally cannot stand the amount of blame put on forces, it's absolutely ridiculous. For example, if a dumb ass hunter runs off and gets stunned and tornado attacked by a bil de vear it is my fault, becuase I didn't heal him, then when I do run in and save him I get stunned and killed and it is considered completely my fault.

Getting back on topic, I cannot stand forces who are unwilling to heal, on the other hand I cannot stand hunters who are unwilling to use healing items on themselves. I spam my resta and reverser, and I am sorry if you ran off and can't get the heal, but would it kill you to use one dimate, just this one time? Now I realize in the OP situation it was not just one time, but several times, in which case I believe it was the forces fault.

PS- To all you hunters out there who say you don't want to waste money buying monomates and dimates, just know that us foces are spending money to heal you cheap bastards. All I ask is that you be willing to use just one or two dimates, for that occasional dire situation where the force is unable to get to you in time.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-27 15:42, Tetsuro wrote:
I personally cannot stand the amount of blame put on forces, it's absolutely ridiculous. For example, if a dumb ass hunter runs off and gets stunned and tornado attacked by a bil de vear it is my fault, becuase I didn't heal him, then when I do run in and save him I get stunned and killed and it is considered completely my fault.

Getting back on topic, I cannot stand forces who are unwilling to heal, on the other hand I cannot stand hunters who are unwilling to use healing items on themselves. I spam my resta and reverser, and I am sorry if you ran off and can't get the heal, but would it kill you to use one dimate, just this one time? Now I realize in the OP situation it was not just one time, but several times, in which case I believe it was the forces fault.

PS- To all you hunters out there who say you don't want to waste money buying monomates and dimates, just know that us foces are spending money to heal you cheap bastards. All I ask is that you be willing to use just one or two dimates, for that occasional dire situation where the force is unable to get to you in time.



PS cheap bastard your rod's pp cost 1/5 the amount of my mates, not to mention, I have to use a whole stack of monomates or 3 diamates just to heal my self, where as one flick of a rod can heal me to full. and that costs you what 30 pp? O nows whats that 6 mesta? Where a stack of useless monomates is 500 mesta? and that worth more then recharging all your rods. Also on top of that I have to recharge all my weapons to which is about 200 mesta, So where in their is a hunter being a cheap bastard? Mates are sapose to be emergency use only, and guess what Hunters melee which means they get hit, saying it's a hunters fualt he gets hit is like saying it's a Black guys fualt he's balck.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-27 15:53 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-27 15:59 ]</font>

[Eternal_Drake]

On 2006-11-27 15:49, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-27 15:42, Tetsuro wrote:
I personally cannot stand the amount of blame put on forces, it's absolutely ridiculous. For example, if a dumb ass hunter runs off and gets stunned and tornado attacked by a bil de vear it is my fault, becuase I didn't heal him, then when I do run in and save him I get stunned and killed and it is considered completely my fault.

Getting back on topic, I cannot stand forces who are unwilling to heal, on the other hand I cannot stand hunters who are unwilling to use healing items on themselves. I spam my resta and reverser, and I am sorry if you ran off and can't get the heal, but would it kill you to use one dimate, just this one time? Now I realize in the OP situation it was not just one time, but several times, in which case I believe it was the forces fault.

PS- To all you hunters out there who say you don't want to waste money buying monomates and dimates, just know that us foces are spending money to heal you cheap bastards. All I ask is that you be willing to use just one or two dimates, for that occasional dire situation where the force is unable to get to you in time.



PS cheap bastard your rod's pp cost 1/5 the amount of my mates, not to mention, I have to use a whole stack of monomates or 3 diamates just to heal my self, where as one flick of a rod can heal me to full. and that costs you what 30 pp? O nows whats that 6 mesta? Where a stack of useless monomates is 500 mesta? and that worth more then recharging all your rods. Also on top of that I have to recharge all my weapons to which is about 200 mesta, So where in their is a hunter being a cheap bastard? Mates are sapose to be emergency use only, and guess what Hunters melee which means they get hit, saying it's a hunters fualt he gets hit is like saying it's a Black guys fualt he's balck.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-27 15:53 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-27 15:59 ]</font>


God, you are so retarded it's stunning.

As said before in this thread, RESTA IS A PRIVELEGE, NOT A RIGHT. If you expect the forces in your party to automatically heal you everytime you drop even a point below full you are truly a conceited fucktard. And you speak like the only spell forces have are resta, THEY CAN DEAL DAMAGE JUST LIKE YOU CAN. Also, there are plenty of scenarios where it IS the hunter's fault he's dead. Like where he runs off by himself like a dumbass and gets killed. Or where he is low on life but rather than use a mate [because he is the damage dealer, no reason he should ever have to spend money out of his own pocket to make sure he doesn't die, right?], he just spams HEAL ME to the force on the other side of the room actually doing something. But I suppose you have yet to realize this, since you are most likely the hunter in one or both situations.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-27 16:05, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-27 15:49, Genobee wrote:

On 2006-11-27 15:42, Tetsuro wrote:
I personally cannot stand the amount of blame put on forces, it's absolutely ridiculous. For example, if a dumb ass hunter runs off and gets stunned and tornado attacked by a bil de vear it is my fault, becuase I didn't heal him, then when I do run in and save him I get stunned and killed and it is considered completely my fault.

Getting back on topic, I cannot stand forces who are unwilling to heal, on the other hand I cannot stand hunters who are unwilling to use healing items on themselves. I spam my resta and reverser, and I am sorry if you ran off and can't get the heal, but would it kill you to use one dimate, just this one time? Now I realize in the OP situation it was not just one time, but several times, in which case I believe it was the forces fault.

PS- To all you hunters out there who say you don't want to waste money buying monomates and dimates, just know that us foces are spending money to heal you cheap bastards. All I ask is that you be willing to use just one or two dimates, for that occasional dire situation where the force is unable to get to you in time.



PS cheap bastard your rod's pp cost 1/5 the amount of my mates, not to mention, I have to use a whole stack of monomates or 3 diamates just to heal my self, where as one flick of a rod can heal me to full. and that costs you what 30 pp? O nows whats that 6 mesta? Where a stack of useless monomates is 500 mesta? and that worth more then recharging all your rods. Also on top of that I have to recharge all my weapons to which is about 200 mesta, So where in their is a hunter being a cheap bastard? Mates are sapose to be emergency use only, and guess what Hunters melee which means they get hit, saying it's a hunters fualt he gets hit is like saying it's a Black guys fualt he's balck.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-27 15:53 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-11-27 15:59 ]</font>


God, you are so retarded it's stunning.

As said before in this thread, RESTA IS A PRIVELEGE, NOT A RIGHT. If you expect the forces in your party to automatically heal you everytime you drop even a point below full you are truly a conceited fucktard. And you speak like the only spell forces have are resta, THEY CAN DEAL DAMAGE JUST LIKE YOU CAN. Also, there are plenty of scenarios where it IS the hunter's fault he's dead. Like where he runs off by himself like a dumbass and gets killed. Or where he is low on life but rather than use a mate [because he is the damage dealer, no reason he should ever have to spend money out of his own pocket to make sure he doesn't die, right?], he just spams HEAL ME to the force on the other side of the room actually doing something. But I suppose you have yet to realize this, since you are most likely the hunter in one or both situations.



OK then fine being in a group is a prvilage not a right, get the fuck out of the group if your not gonna heal, and Also I understand if a hunter runs off away fromt he group and you have to chase him down to heal him and then he dies and then bitches you out sure thats the hunter's fualt. But if a hunter, gets froven by Gibarta ( which a alot of monsters use and use with little warning.) and the hunter gets frozen and the froce doesn't heal the hunter, yea thats the forces fualt for not healing him and letting him die. ALso no I never do a mission without a scape doll fulll daimtea nad trimates. Also I have only died twice with out a scape doll while palying this game and thats was because I was soloing and wanted to see how long I could last against B grade Jabras for fun with otu healing.

[Tetsuro]

umm recharging all my rods costs around 600 meseta, and when doing Dimongolus on A rank I spend about 1000 on charging my rods alone. And most hunters refuse to use any healing items throughout the entirety of the mission, and also end up getting themselves killed a few times, so in the end I lose money because we get a shitty rank all because of some cheap hunters. To top it off I have to spend a few thousand on scape dolls, because hey! I actually come prepared.

[Beamther0x]

Whats this "argument" that if forces didnt want to heal then they shouldnt be forces, that if they wanted to do damage they should change class? Going by that same logic if hunters wanted to be healed without using mates then they should change class.
But really, throughout my whole experience as playing I have never seen a hunter who could do more damage than I (a force) could. From level one all the way to the fourties, add up the damage from a Ra spell or check the damage from a Diga on a lightning enemy and youll see that forces are (more) capable damage dealers too.
Hunters, just be cool, if a force is using an elemental cane or staff (itll be a color other than green) know they dont have resta on them currently and that switching and loading up the spells takes time and you might not get a heal while youre STILL FIGHTING ENEMIES A BAJILLION MILES AWAY from the force. Remember that just tagging enemies doesnt give the full amount of experience, so Forces want to get in more than one hit too. Just be cool, and chances are your forces will be cool too. (I know i have this thing where I wont exactly rush to heal a Hunter unless I see that he'll heal himself when he needs to, when i see that hes cool enough to do that, I might just go out of my way to run up to him and heal him while hes still getting hits in.)
And its a hunters job to give hits not take them, so try to dodge a little.

[Sychosis]

On 2006-11-27 16:23, Genobee wrote
But if a hunter, gets froven by Gibarta ( which a alot of monsters use and use with little warning.) and the hunter gets frozen and the froce doesn't heal the hunter, yea thats the forces fualt for not healing him and letting him die.


You know, I've always wondered. If a force gets frozen by Gibarta and dies, who is at fault then?

I have never, EVER seen a hunter whip out a Sol for me when I'm stuck in an ice block. Whenever that happens it's "Too bad, so sad, I'm glad, you're mad." while they continue killing enemies you haven't even tagged yet.

[Tetsuro]

Sychosis, that is exactly the kind of shit I cannot stand. It seems that most hunters believe that they can do no wrong.

[Beamther0x]

Yeah, I've never had a Hunter run infront of me when im frozen of asleep to block some damage (since our hp and defense is so low), but in truth we both can do wrong, Hunters can do wrong if theyre being retrasados and expecting forces to take complete care of them so they can mash buttons in the face of a mob (soon theyll expect us to open doors for them too!) without trying to dodge or move around or anything. Forces can be lame if they make no communication or leave you hanging when you cant help yourself, and its also pretty lame if they wont heal at all, but if its not just them sucking then they might be mad that youre taking too many hits or whatever, who knows. Both sides have to spend money on missions, and if healing my rods costs 1/5 the price as a Hunters mates I'd gladly accept that money and heal more often than usual, but that wont happen. Try giving a force a Photon Charge, I bet itll really turn their attitude around toward you and have them going out of their way to heal you, just cus youre a good guy. If we can both be cool, empathize, and understand each others pains, our wants (TAGGING DOESNT GIVE FULL EXP!! i wanna nuke more!), then maybe, just maybe, we can S these missions without trouble.

[Bleemo]

Personally, I think someone is too reliant on a random group member.

In a random group, if I saw someone spam "HEAL ME HEAL ME HEAL ME" whenever they hit 50% health, I'd time my heals just as they were about to die for laughs.

When you're in a completely random group, why do you expect someone to do something you think they are supposed to be doing? Granted, I believe healing is in a Force's best interest, and they are either pretty lazy or stupid to not take advantages of their support abilities, but it really isn't in their job description to heal.

As someone stated earlier, it's a privilege, not a requirement. Just like if I were to decide on my Hunter, "I'm going to save money and hardly consume any PP this run." It's not my job to empty the PP on all of my weapons, but it would certainly help the group kill faster.

A little advice: if you want to be healed after falling to a reasonable percentage in HP(50% is NOT reasonable enough to complain about.), stick very close to the healer. It's much more convenient for the healer.

The lesson of the day is: don't expect things from strangers.

[Zerase]

Be more than happy to heal any of you in whatever mission ^_^. If their waiting that long and not even curing the debuffs(relics A has what, 3?) then their not fully utilizing the class.

Sure I nuke, but I also heal, cure, tag, and damage. The class has alot of micromanageing to it and fast swaps. Pretty much needed to set yourself as a force people enjoy playing with. Difference between a good and bad force is sadly very obvious.

In this siutation Id agree with the poster.

[PMB960]

See the difference is most of the people who expect Forces only to heal play other MMOs where class aren't as varied. In other games they have a healing class that is specifically meant to heal. In PSU the description of t a force is that they can take on many different roles. This is PSU we are talking about not WOW or FFXII. Forces are not white mages they are from two different games and are not comparable. The idea is you are suppossed to be able to play the game the way you want not how others tell you. I am sure many hunters would appreciate it if they were booted for using a weapon other than a sword or for running to go and heal. This is the same thing as kicking Forces for not healing. You can't expect people to play the way you want them too. If you really need a dedicated healbot then you should make a pure tech PM. And hey if people complain maybe I will sit back and only heal while you try and take down the B-rank Poravohlla by yourselves in 10 shots like I can. Alot of times forces can save you more easily by helping you kill enemies than by only healing. Yes if someone starts to get down to 1/3 health then I will run to heal them,although on higher rank missions I will try to heal sooner. Finally you don't see me complaining about the way you are playing because you have every right to play the way you want. Some poeple are way too obssessed with these games and take them way too seriously. So what you didn't get an S-rank is it the end of the world. Have fun thats the entire idea of this game.

[Genobee]

I'm not even gonna try anymore, people oviously don't get it, ST diddn't give only resta to forces for no reason and made hunters only able to hold 10 mates and made them ubserdly expensive for no reason.

[Bleemo]

On 2006-11-27 17:41, Genobee wrote:
I'm not even gonna try anymore, people oviously don't get it, ST diddn't give only resta to forces for no reason and made hunters only able to hold 10 mates and made them ubserdly expensive for no reason.


You can only hold 10 mates? Since when was this? You can hold 20 of each mate.

Mates are expensive? Since when was this? Player Shops. With a little shifting, you can find Dimates at about 1000 meseta per stack.

ST gave Resta to only Forces? Since when was this? Wartecher and Guntecher can also use Resta.

[Yoruichi]

forces, forteforces, guntecher, wartechers, PM for resta and its 20mates at 150 20 dimates at 500 and 20 trimates. I never buy any of em, I get enough during my missions.

[Wallin]

I can't wait to see the number of topics exactly like this after the patch about how the Wartechers and Guntechers aren't healing enough, and all the justifications of why they do and don't have to... this is getting ridiculous.

[PMB960]

On 2006-11-27 17:41, Genobee wrote:
I'm not even gonna try anymore, people oviously don't get it, ST diddn't give only resta to forces for no reason and made hunters only able to hold 10 mates and made them ubserdly expensive for no reason.



Actually your information is wrong. You can hold 20 each of Monomates, Dimates and Trimates at a time. These are easily found too. Also ST gave other classes exclusive weapons too. Does that mean I can kick them for not using one of their exclusive weapons.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PMB960 on 2006-11-27 17:53 ]</font>

[Beamther0x]

On 2006-11-27 17:41, Genobee wrote:
I'm not even gonna try anymore, people oviously don't get it, ST diddn't give only resta to forces for no reason and made hunters only able to hold 10 mates and made them ubserdly expensive for no reason.



Hunters hold 60 mates total. If you like Resta so much be a force. The reason only one class (so far) can use resta is only the result of the new weapon system. Photon Charges cost money too when we have to spend every minute healing you (FOR REAL, DESERT TERROR A). Youre Victorian idea that Forces are fated to be your heal slaves is completely absurd and classist (i guess thats what youd call it). Its not that people dont get it, its that your views are one sided, and youre shocked to see that people have the other side.
Seriously, if you want Resta so much, be a force, 'nuff said.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Beamther0x on 2006-11-27 17:55 ]</font>

[Maridia]

God, this argument has been beaten to death. <_< I tried to read the whole thread but hit page 8 of 11 and just couldn't keep it up. if any of this has been said already, I apologize.

It doesn't really matter who's right or who's wrong in any of these situations, guys. While I DO believe that healing is an important role of a force, it does not need to be their JOB. Though really, it isn't tough, and it's also good for the force to have a high level resta, if only for self preservation. What better way to level it up then to look after all the people you're partying with?

Anyway, all those details need to be worked out as the party is being formed. If you have a force, ask them how they prefer to play. And for the love of GOD people, ASK THEM WHAT LEVEL THEIR RESTA IS. My beast girl just hit 35, and I just started playing with the force class a bit. Lemme tell you, my resta sucks the big one. If I was to go into a tough mission with a bunch of high hunters, I could NEVER keep them healthy, even if I sat there spamming it. You just can't keep up with the damage dealt. Just because I'm a higher level doesn't mean jack in PSU.

So always ask your force these important questions. Yes, maybe they SHOULD just heal you. Maybe they shouldn't. But it should be worked out before playing, so people can figure out if it's good to have them along, or to adjust their role in the party. Maybe you won't bring a low level force along this time. Maybe you will and try to take it easy, or maybe do a slightly easier mission to be nice. Who knows.

This game IS about teamwork and communication. You know what they say about when you assume. >_> And I remember seeing someone's post about people "not playing the game right." What's that all about? The only way you can play it wrong is by not having your controller or keyboard plugged in. Or by continuously walking into a wall, or running around with no weapon and trying to mosh into a mob of enemies. Seriously. It's a game, if that person is having fun their way, then it's right for them. Nobody is making you play together. I watched all these kinds of arguments and battles and insults and everything thrown around SO MUCH in PSO. I really wanted to avoid all this in PSU.. I guess it was too much to hope for ._.

[Ravennittes]

Fenix (yes, you're on my list and I should play with you sometime again), in hard missions, such as Desert Terror A, I tend to resta only when people reach about yellow level if I can so as to save PP for when it is really needed (it costs me about 1k meseta for a full recharge, and I even tend to run out after a while, even though I have 5 hajis and a bow...). Perhaps other forces feel the way I do, however, I don't think it was right of the force to ignore you for that time, I mean, you can excuse a time or two if he or she wasn't paying attention (happens to me on easyish missions), but to have to do it every time...

[PMB960]

Also I have run into cases where the game would lag really badly. Resta wouldn't even work at all. No one ever died but somtimes it was relly close, I mean people were down to 1 HP. This was often caused by an idiot spamming "Ima chargin ma lazer" in the middle of a huge group of enemies. They cause the game to lag horribly for everyone. If I can't cast anything due to lag and you die guess whose fault it is , and I can tell you its not my 768K DSLs fault.

[ChocoboChad]

I don't let my party use mates. <_< All you people are insane.

I'm always disappointed when someone uses a mate to heal...

Oi, and status effects! With a mob of Goshins it's so funny watching everyone get Jellen'd. I hate when people use antimates.

Oh yeh, any of you tried Seabed Lab on A? Dude, it's awesome. Me and my party got a bug map; that was the funnest mission ever.

This is all serious; not sarcastic at all. I'm serious.

[xxravenxx]

yeah, i hate it when you get stuck-up forces in psu, in pso most of em were nice and would heal when needed. but i also have alot of friends that are high lvl forces, and they keep me alive. i dont get alot of money fast, besides doing dragon A+B runs(which get boring afetr awhile) so then i get bored and decide to go do somehting else. so all and all, in my eyes snobby,stuck-up forces ruin the game ^_^

[xxravenxx]

On 2006-11-27 17:55, Beamther0x wrote:

On 2006-11-27 17:41, Genobee wrote:
I'm not even gonna try anymore, people oviously don't get it, ST diddn't give only resta to forces for no reason and made hunters only able to hold 10 mates and made them ubserdly expensive for no reason.



Hunters hold 60 mates total. If you like Resta so much be a force. The reason only one class (so far) can use resta is only the result of the new weapon system. Photon Charges cost money too when we have to spend every minute healing you (FOR REAL, DESERT TERROR A). Youre Victorian idea that Forces are fated to be your heal slaves is completely absurd and classist (i guess thats what youd call it). Its not that people dont get it, its that your views are one sided, and youre shocked to see that people have the other side.
Seriously, if you want Resta so much, be a force, 'nuff said.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Beamther0x on 2006-11-27 17:55 ]</font>
omfg dude, we can hold 60mates in all, but that costs how much? like 15k?! that is alot to some of us...

[PMB960]

On 2006-11-27 18:13, xxravenxx wrote:
yeah, i hate it when you get stuck-up forces in psu, in pso most of em were nice and would heal when needed. but i also have alot of friends that are high lvl forces, and they keep me alive. i dont get alot of money fast, besides doing dragon A+B runs(which get boring afetr awhile) so then i get bored and decide to go do somehting else. so all and all, in my eyes snobby,stuck-up forces ruin the game ^_^



But this isn't PSO. Now we usually have to switch rods to cast resta instead of just pressing one button like in PSO. So not only did they make it hard for Forces to cast resta after attacking and gave it much less range a t high levels but they also give you 20 of each healing item. Maybe ST is hinting that Hunters shouldn't rely on Forces as much as they did in PSO.

[Wallin]

After the patch, there will be only 2 spells that actually heal, Resta and Giresta, and yet there will be over 20 attack spells. Along with Bows and Cards in their arsenal, I think Forces have interests in doing something else besides being a healbot, and I personally don't blame them for that.

[Ravennittes]

'xactly. I intend to have light element for healing and the rest for kickinf whatever may be. (--->megid<---)

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-11-27 18:15, xxravenxx wrote:

On 2006-11-27 17:55, Beamther0x wrote:

On 2006-11-27 17:41, Genobee wrote:
I'm not even gonna try anymore, people oviously don't get it, ST diddn't give only resta to forces for no reason and made hunters only able to hold 10 mates and made them ubserdly expensive for no reason.



Hunters hold 60 mates total. If you like Resta so much be a force. The reason only one class (so far) can use resta is only the result of the new weapon system. Photon Charges cost money too when we have to spend every minute healing you (FOR REAL, DESERT TERROR A). Youre Victorian idea that Forces are fated to be your heal slaves is completely absurd and classist (i guess thats what youd call it). Its not that people dont get it, its that your views are one sided, and youre shocked to see that people have the other side.
Seriously, if you want Resta so much, be a force, 'nuff said.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Beamther0x on 2006-11-27 17:55 ]</font>
omfg dude, we can hold 60mates in all, but that costs how much? like 15k?! that is alot to some of us...



I've never bought mates, don't suicide rush into things and you'd save yourself unessary expenses solo and in groups with damage forces.

[Lavinia]

I have the same problem with some of the forces, they never cast resta at all.Thats why, The Maiden of Malice only relys on those who follow the way of the Malice.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lavinia on 2006-11-27 18:31 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lavinia on 2006-11-27 18:33 ]</font>

[Genobee]

Ok thats cool, Forces can do all the damage and the hunters will stand back and just take rares, cause why should we pull our weight if your not.

[Maridia]

On 2006-11-27 19:56, Genobee wrote:
Ok thats cool, Forces can do all the damage and the hunters will stand back and just take rares, cause why should we pull our weight if your not.



And here we go.

Guys, seriously. Quit arguing about this, it's silly and we basically have 12 pages of the EXACT same thing being said over and over and over. If it doesn't stop, I'm going to request a lock. Take a good look at how this bickering is going. Being defensive is stupid, just let people play how they play. IF you don't like it, don't play with them. That is all you can do. Even hanging around discussing it or arguing about it on a forum isn't going to change anything ingame. People will play how they play. If you know good forces who are helpful, great, play with them. But for the love of god, stop fighting about this, please. This thread has outlived its original point more than enough. Let it die D:

[Eternal_Drake]

On 2006-11-27 19:56, Genobee wrote:
Ok thats cool, Forces can do all the damage and the hunters will stand back and just take rares, cause why should we pull our weight if your not.


Ugh, can a mod just lock this thread, this guy is too ignorant to admit he's not 100% correct, even after 50 posts of being wrong. Also he is a classist/fortefighter elitist faggot. This is going nowhere fast.

[Gamemako]

On 2006-11-25 19:45, FenixStryk wrote:
Shouldn't Forces be on the ball for this type of thing? It's their job!


The fallacy of your argument.

[Genobee]

On 2006-11-27 20:40, Eternal_Drake wrote:

On 2006-11-27 19:56, Genobee wrote:
Ok thats cool, Forces can do all the damage and the hunters will stand back and just take rares, cause why should we pull our weight if your not.


Ugh, can a mod just lock this thread, this guy is too ignorant to admit he's not 100% correct, even after 50 posts of being wrong. Also he is a classist/fortefighter elitist faggot. This is going nowhere fast.




Wow your cool I wish I could pass my statment off a serious by saying faggot at the end of every sentance? Go back to 4chan, your /b/tard butt buddies are waiting for you. Your better off as anonymous.

Cause it's ovious you have no clue how this game works or any of it machanics. And god forbid you actualy read what I actualy wrote.

[Ryna]

Since this thread is going around in circles, I am going to lock it. Without knowing the specifics, anything that is offered in this thread is just speculation.