Is this NOT obvious?

[MaKaVeLi_X]

Is It really hard to be both types?

[ProfessorZ]

If a force said that to me I would ask him,"What did the a button say to the leader rights selection?"

[Lashiens]

Hey Pen-Pen.

I don't get involved in this particular debate, because it goes around for hours, upon HOURS on end. However, the general feeling seems to be, that BECAUSE Forces are the only ones who can heal independently of consumable item usage, it is considered their job.

Just like it is the hunters JOB to go in and melee. They're meant to soak up damage.

So if a Hunter is getting pounded on constantly, it's obvious (especially in A and S rank) that no hunter could EVER carry enough consumable healing items to make it through a run, no chance. At level 45 on A runs, I run out of healing items in the first 2-3 rooms, easy.

In closing. If it's a Hunters JOB to get beat up constantly and keep forces OUT of danger.... I wonder what the Forces job is? To support his tank. Yes, that can even mean spells like barta, etc, besides resta. But the point of the matter is, it's supposed to be a symbiotic relationship. I keep you alive, you keep me alive, everyone wins.

....That's my take on it. I go quiet now. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Zaft]

This dead horse has been raped, beaten, and sexually molested a thousand times over. Let it be already >_>

IMO, if you tell the party you aren't gonna heal beforehand and they are ok with it, then im fine with the force not healing (though usually I'm force, so I'm healing^^).

[Auronp]

I see what your saying, but in the same sense if a hunter chooses to use an axe over a lance or long sword he's still doing the same thing just in a different way. Forces are the only class that can heal others w/o having to buy star atomizers. And most players can level all the spells fairly evenly, so if they want to be a nuke they can still have a resta or somthin in there. But mostly people expect healing forces when they go into a misssion, mostly cause, imo, it gives them a reason to not pay attention to their own health and blame someone else when they die. (lol)

[Mystil]

Well let me see.

If I'm getting my ass beat for a force - that means taking 2x light balls from the Gohmins in Agata RELICS for a force, then I expect some heals. Cause I just proved that my role isn't just hacking shit away. Understand what I'm saying?

There's 3 types. The first 2 will heal cause well they need to heal. The third doesn't heal http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif. This is the one to bitch about. The one who will suck ass in S rank missions for having a resta spell that heals for 100HP with guys running around with 1300+.

[Invisus]

I don't mind healing but I simply refuse to heal someone screaming they need heals because we are about to fight a big pack of monsters when they have full health, or saying they need a heal with a fraction of their HP missing. Also unless you are frozen,confused, surrounded(which is still your fault, but ok)what have you I am NOT coming to you.

Potions are generally extremely expensive in MMOs and/or extremely ineffective. "Potions" or mates as they are here are VERY readily available and work EXTREMELY well. If you refuse to use one simply because there is a force in your group and you don't want to foot the bill oh well. All other Online RPGs have some sort of money sink to compensate for being an idiot(be it repairs, loss of an item, etc.). PSU has you having to buy your own mates. I'm max job level and not hurting for cash; I could care less if you die http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Sakura123]

Seriously though, forces in this game are more supporters than nukers. Their damage is support damage. Forces are just not efficient as a pure DD, their AoE damage is weak, not being able to aim/ target with their spells really hurt their DPS and overall damage potential.

Everything goes faster if they just focus on their support role and status removal while tagging for xp than going on a pure DD role.

Right now it may not be a big deal since we don't have yet S-rank missions and the current missions are fairly easy except maybe Moatoob A missions.

Forces as a pure DD can be achived very nicely by making a Force pt to do Groove or Endrums. There is the only place I can think off that make a Force DD actually worthwile.

[GeoHolyhart]

If you think they're pure Nuking forces try solo'ing A rank Moa or Neu with no NPC help. Hunters, Rangers, Forces all complement each other. Fact is Forces need the Hunter a little bit more then they need us.

Yea, Yea. I know someone is going to come and say "I solo just fine with my Force A rank stuff.". Of coarse it's with NPCs though, whom you heal right?

I'm pretty sure this had been addressed many times though. Just follow the good Hunter, good Force guidelines.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: GeoHolyhart on 2006-11-28 15:36 ]</font>

[Pandatron]

On 2006-11-28 15:23, MaKaVeLi_X wrote:
Is It really hard to be both types?



From personal experience if your an effective force you can hybrid in both no problem. Keeping nuking crap and when you see peeps low pop a heal or reverser for status effects. I see nothing wrong with forces nuking stuff. However if your in mid mission and the force goes... oh i'm out of pp brb, or same sitution but doesn't go to town. That's when really that force should be tagging stuff and not nuking. Cause i know at least when i was lvling a force, i knew what stuff i could help nuke to death and what stuff i couldn't. It's like memorizing properties in the old PSU ain't that hard just gotta pace yourself in getting it down.

That's my rant who's next xD.

[Lashiens]

Well, it's like I said, you know. If you don't want to use that resta, that benefits your whole party and is a HIGHLY needed skill in later difficulty levels, don't expect to find many groups that will accept you. People are playing the game to lose, they're playinig to win. And if something is going to hinder their ability to win?

/boot

Sorry to say, but that's the truth, I've seen it happen plenty of times. Never done it myself, I try to remain as self-sufficient as possible, but yeah. A rank and up, not as possible.

I mean, jeez. It's not that hard of a concept to grasp. Maybe what we need to do is go on a "Hunter Strike" and refuse to tank and soak any damage for forces, just pull out a pistol and stick to ranged and watch some forces get beat on a bit before they get the picture.

Symbiotic.

[Bleemo]

On 2006-11-28 15:21, Pentence wrote:
People say "forces are ment to heal" others say "hey man i aint here to babysit and i dont have resta sucker".So i have to ask what i belive to be a rather obvious question.

Are there NOT two types of forces out there?
nukers
supporters

Also this is a prevalent theme in PSU.Choices people,you can be a hunter who prefers his axes to his swords or his fists to his twin sabers.A ranger may prefer his grenades over his big laser or even
his traps over both.

So why bother telling off a force who likes to nuker rather than heal?Why not instead ask what type of force they are?IS it so hard to ask "hey man you a nuker or a supporter?".Also are not both important?One can help bring the enemy to their knees in seconds as well as add status efects all around.The other can buff the liveing heck outa ya and heal ya if it gets ugly.There are also some inbetweens out there that can dable into each.

So the thing is why are we argueing over the very core that makes this game so great on one class and not the others.Why not rag on that stupid hunter hiting with 0s alot just to get a handfull of damage here and there from that sword?Or maybe that ranger who sits there with a handgun sucking at causeing status effects,rather than useing that mechgun to get more hits for the efect.

This entire game is built to alow one to become what they wish with many options.This is THE CORE theme of this game right?


Judging from your perception of Hunter and Ranger weapons, I would question how far you've even gotten in PSU.

The reason why this argument continues being discussed is this:

Hunters don't like spending money/consuming their mates. When in random groups, most Hunters love to gripe about how their Force isn't babysitting them. The ignorant ones who start these arguments are mostly the Hunters who constantly complain about what they believe a Force's "job" is, which is the main controversial issue. One side believes Forces are required to heal, the other believes it's merely a privilege.

Honestly, starting these idiotic threads doesn't help the situation much either.

[Randomness]

On 2006-11-28 15:29, Silhouette wrote:
Well let me see.

If I'm getting my ass beat for a force - that means taking 2x light balls from the Gohmins in Agata RELICS for a force, then I expect some heals. Cause I just proved that my role isn't just hacking shit away. Understand what I'm saying?

There's 3 types. The first 2 will heal cause well they need to heal. The third doesn't heal http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif. This is the one to bitch about. The one who will suck ass in S rank missions for having a resta spell that heals for 100HP with guys running around with 1300+.



To be honest, you should let the light balls hit the forces, you'll take much more damage from them. They're techs, I believe, so the force's high MST will just soak it up.

[Sakura123]

People act as if casting Resta takes a huge ammount time, effort, strategy, brain power, huge casting time and extreme possitioning.

It's like a hunter saying they wont use PA's because it takes a huge ammount of time and effort pressing one more botton.

Like I said, it may not be an issue now because all people do is the newbie Da Ragan A missions all over again and the need of status removal or healing is almost non-existant. S-rank missions will be a wake up call for Forces that flat-out refuse to heal, remove status, buff/debuff.

[Mystil]

On 2006-11-28 15:34, GeoHolyhart wrote:
Fact is Forces need the Hunter a little bit more then they need us.


I'd say the need is about even. Since starting the game, I've wise up alittle. Some A missions I simply wont join if there is no force in it.

[Randomness]

On 2006-11-28 16:03, Silhouette wrote:

On 2006-11-28 15:34, GeoHolyhart wrote:
Fact is Forces need the Hunter a little bit more then they need us.


I'd say the need is about even. Since starting the game, I've wise up alittle. Some A missions I simply wont join if there is no force in it.



Actually, forces really just need other damage sources. 5 rangers and a force would work fine. And the status effects flying everywhere wouldn't hurt.

[PMB960]

I want to know where in the instruction manual it says that forces must heal. The description for forces says that they are good for a wide range of things. This isn't WOW or FFXI. Those games have tight class restriction and some are meant to be healers. They only get buff/debuffs and heal spells. Right now in PSU there is 1 yes just 1 heal spell. And with Diga level 15 and a level 28 Newman I can do over 400 damage for regular hits. Many times I save more people by helping to kill the monsters faster than by running across a large area to trying to heal them. Honestly if you are a hunter do you have to worry about being booted for tagging enemies with a pistol. By many peoples logic that is okay for me to do since I feel that isn't a hunters job. Yes people who just don't heal are stupid but they don't have to play the way you want. There is no PSU dictator saying everyone must play by there rules. There is nothing in this game that states you must play a certain way. People can do what they want. Unless they are being a real jerk about it it shouldn't be a problem.

[Mystil]

On 2006-11-28 16:06, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-11-28 16:03, Silhouette wrote:

On 2006-11-28 15:34, GeoHolyhart wrote:
Fact is Forces need the Hunter a little bit more then they need us.


I'd say the need is about even. Since starting the game, I've wise up alittle. Some A missions I simply wont join if there is no force in it.



Actually, forces really just need other damage sources. 5 rangers and a force would work fine. And the status effects flying everywhere wouldn't hurt.



Oh that's a nice blow there to the hunter class man.

Real nice.

[ZiG]

ST made Resta AoE for a reason.

[Pandatron]

On 2006-11-28 16:06, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-11-28 16:03, Silhouette wrote:

On 2006-11-28 15:34, GeoHolyhart wrote:
Fact is Forces need the Hunter a little bit more then they need us.


I'd say the need is about even. Since starting the game, I've wise up alittle. Some A missions I simply wont join if there is no force in it.



Actually, forces really just need other damage sources. 5 rangers and a force would work fine. And the status effects flying everywhere wouldn't hurt.



I would love to be in a sitution like that if all 5 Rangers were constantly circling me like a pentagon formation xD. That and rangers typically stick together (unless 1 has a shotgun, if they all have a shotgun that's fine). So their fairily easy to heal, i think were most forces complain is when you have 5 hunters with 5 single daggers and kick there target 5 directions, and all 5 ask for heals... ya then you have problems. Though i still don't view this as a problem cause eventually they'll all group up and attack and then you can spot a heal. If not varying on the sitution pop 1-5 heals if necessary and tag a bit less (with 5 hunters you can be hella lazy w/ a force xD, especially if there beast).

[Mystil]

Irritating. My god.

I need to pull myself away from this forum before I snap and get banned.

[Pandatron]

Um... Pentence.

It's Pandatron not Pendatron we all spell your name like you x.x . Personally i play to have fun and if you don't like the way i play then i'm sorry. I mean i've done a full party of forces just for kicks, but that's a story for another day.

Well i mean i view myself as hybrid, i nuke in moderation with my heals, plus with 4k pp right now and resta costing 40 pp i mean god forbid i use 1% of my overall pp to heal someone >.>. In either case it's really sitution and based upon the sitution (and the type of force your dealing with) your always going to have conflict with this debate. Nuff said.

[Mikaga]

Think the general problem is that when saying "It's a Hunter's job to have fun hacking monsters apart and soaking all the damage, and it's a Force's job to chore about babysitting them", there are things people dislike about that.

Most notably, the "job of a Hunter" seems much more fun. The purpose of the game is to kill stuff. That's when the vast majorty of the playerbase does so.

The other thing worth noting, however, is that Resta *doesn't tag monsters*. This means that a Force that runs around casting nothing but Shifta/Deband/Resta/Reverse isn't getting ANY experience. None. Zero. And the Forces (or other players) that argue this as "a reason we shouldn't be babysitting" make a pretty convincing point.

Now I've spent most of my PSU time playing a Hunter. As a Newman. I'm charging into monster groups in A-Rank missions taking an utter beating (moreso because my ping makes dodging ANYTHING literally impossible) but I've got all three sets of mates on my item palette and am more than ready to heal myself. If a Force casts Resta on me, great! It saves a Dimate or two, and I make sure when I next get the chance to thank said Force for taking the time to do so. That said, if they hadn't healed me, I would have been more than prepared to do so myself.

I realise that things *are* going to change when we get S-Rank missions with their stupid-fast mobs and their Megid spamming monsters. But for now I am a Hunter under the worst circumstances possible (save unequipping my armor and Mega/Wall) and I don't need a Force. Thus no Hunter should. Not at the moment.

[industrial]

On 2006-11-28 15:53, Sakura123 wrote:
It's like a hunter saying they wont use PA's because it takes a huge ammount of time and effort pressing one more botton.


Maybe we should start singling out hunters that use PAs like retards and boot them. Or ones that use anything but spears because we know that's the best/only way to play hunter. How about one's that don't have the right elemental weapon for each monster type?

Hunters can be as stupid as they want. Forces have to be perfect little resta/reverser bots.

As a force, I prefer rangers to hunters in PUGS. Rangers tend to avoid mobs or dodge. Hunters just tend to sit there and "ME BABA, ME WHIRL!!!" -> "OMG HEAL ME THO IM 1023 FT AWAY!".

[PMB960]

The problem is there are no advanced classes right now. All hunters are like Casts in PSO, the only way to heal is mates. People who complain about not being able to heal shouldn't pick Fortefighters since they are stuck with the same problem. I am pretty sure the idea in this game is to try to find rare weapons and gain levels. Being a healbot accomplishes none of those. 99.9% of the people who complain play other MMOs where magic users have a specific healer class, and have never played as a Force in PSU. Give it a try sometime since you can play however you want and don't have to be a healbot. I personally have created one character for each class.

[VelosofLight]

On 2006-11-28 16:22, Silhouette wrote:

On 2006-11-28 16:06, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-11-28 16:03, Silhouette wrote:

On 2006-11-28 15:34, GeoHolyhart wrote:
Fact is Forces need the Hunter a little bit more then they need us.


I'd say the need is about even. Since starting the game, I've wise up alittle. Some A missions I simply wont join if there is no force in it.



Actually, forces really just need other damage sources. 5 rangers and a force would work fine. And the status effects flying everywhere wouldn't hurt.



Oh that's a nice blow there to the hunter class man.

Real nice.



Hey, I, as a Ranger, personally prefer to have a few Hunters in there too. For one, they're the only class that can fight when their PP runs out, and if everyone's on empty in a boss fight, you need some really awesome Hunters to pull your ass outta the fire. Also, since their PAs throw the mobs either backwards or into the air or something, they make it much easier on Rangers whereas without 'em a wall of monsters would advance on us and then bite my face off.