GH 430 is rather... unusual.

[FenixStryk]

So, yeah. I finally got her to 80 and its a nice lookin' PM... but she lacks, for lack of another term, battle strategy. She spends most of her time switching between a silenced pistol and a gigantic rifle. Not to mention her voice lines...

"Mmm!"
"Mmm... I think we can beat them!"
"They may look cute, but
I'm cuter!"
"Scatter!"

It's really... I don't know how to explain it. Odd.
I guess it's better than a 410, though.



"Oh-ho!"

[Ryoki]

On 2006-11-29 16:18, FenixStryk wrote:
So, yeah. I finally got her to 80 and its a nice lookin' PM... but she lacks, for lack of another term, battle strategy. She spends most of her time switching between a silenced pistol and a gigantic rifle. Not to mention her voice lines...

"Mmm!"
"Mmm... I think we can beat them!"
"They may look cute, but
I'm cuter!"
"Scatter!"

It's really... I don't know how to explain it. Odd.
I guess it's better than a 410, though.



"Oh-ho!"


Wow...
You know what, your GH430 can go die for all I care.
410 hater.

________
Growing marijuana (http://growingmedicalmarijuana.org)

[Garnet_Moon]

She isn't supposed to be used in battle. She's a synth PM. Want a battle one? Get a 410 or a 450.

[Turambar]

I'm hoping her firing rate goes up a bit as her battle strength rises. But the Lv 4 freeze, and the ever-so-often moment of it freezing say, a vull-de-bear or a stateria, is always nice.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-29 16:20, Turambar wrote:
I'm hoping her firing rate goes up a bit as her battle strength rises. But the Lv 4 freeze, and the ever-so-often moment of it freezing say, a vull-de-bear or a stateria, is always nice.


When expert classes come out who cares if she can freeze those? She never attacks with more than one bullet per minute anyway. -_-

[Choja]

On 2006-11-29 16:18, FenixStryk wrote:
*snip* I guess it's better than a 410, though. *snip*
410, according to my friend, is like a loli version of Maya Shidow! especially with the chats. The funniest one is when I hear a GH-410 say "Oh yeah!" then I get the chance to be freaked out. Yeah.

EDIT: In before MOME :>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Choja on 2006-11-29 16:27 ]</font>

[Randomness]

Well, yes... It doesnt attack much, but when it does, it has a good freeze rate, which helps.

[Weakness]

;;>.> I wonder what they were smoking when they came up with the AI for the people who are supposed to help you. I mean the only thing the NPC's accomplish is giving you a headache, even PSO had better AI x.X;.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Weakness on 2006-11-29 16:26 ]</font>

[Shadow_Wing]

PSO's AI gave me bigger headaches >> but that's just me

[Garnet_Moon]

The AI companions are there to make things challenging, I guess. They die within seconds when battle breaks out... it's the mother of all escort missions when you bring them on A Rank Dimmagolus.

Babysitting isn't fun RL, so why would it be online? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Ryoki]

On 2006-11-29 16:29, Garnet_Moon wrote:
The AI companions are there to make things challenging, I guess. They die within seconds when battle breaks out... it's the mother of all escort missions when you bring them on A Rank Dimmagolus.

Babysitting isn't fun RL, so why would it be online? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


I actually like the 410. It has crazy hp, and if I bring along a few star atomizers and sol atomizers, I don't have to worry at all.

________
Millenia (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Mazda_Millenia)

[Turambar]

On 2006-11-29 16:20, Garnet_Moon wrote:
She isn't supposed to be used in battle. She's a synth PM. Want a battle one? Get a 410 or a 450.


Execpt the 450 has a similar, if not even lower, attack rate. The fact that it misses 1/3rd of the time isn't quite that wonderful either. At least a 430 hits almost everytime, and freezes mobs alot more than I expected it to.

And for a rifle RA like me, 410s would just stand there and do nothing for me until the enemies march right up to my face.

[Ryoki]

On 2006-11-29 16:36, Turambar wrote:

On 2006-11-29 16:20, Garnet_Moon wrote:
She isn't supposed to be used in battle. She's a synth PM. Want a battle one? Get a 410 or a 450.


Execpt the 450 has a similar, if not even lower, attack rate. The fact that it misses 1/3rd of the time isn't quite that wonderful either. At least a 430 hits almost everytime, and freezes mobs alot more than I expected it to.

And for a rifle RA like me, 410s would just stand there and do nothing for me until the enemies march right up to my face.


410 with rangers is evil. 420 might be good.

________
TIGER BLOOD (http://winningentrepreneur.com/)

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-29 16:36, Turambar wrote:

On 2006-11-29 16:20, Garnet_Moon wrote:
She isn't supposed to be used in battle. She's a synth PM. Want a battle one? Get a 410 or a 450.


Execpt the 450 has a similar, if not even lower, attack rate. The fact that it misses 1/3rd of the time isn't quite that wonderful either. At least a 430 hits almost everytime, and freezes mobs alot more than I expected it to.

And for a rifle RA like me, 410s would just stand there and do nothing for me until the enemies march right up to my face.


Nobody brings a 450 to do damage. They bring it to be a healbot. Nothing more.

410 would be more useful to you if you knew how to run in, let the 410 start whacking, then run out and circle strafe while you shoot.

[Turambar]

Until they fix that 450 bug, they are not healbots. And its not as if I havn't tried that witha 410. The one in my Extra Mode would just follow me out.....=(

410 goes well with shotguns though, I have to admit.

[SonicTMP]

like the rest of the game. Getting your PM's combat level up is a grind. I've noticed my 420 has gotten a little more agressive as i get her up. Granted we don't really have anyone with 100 combat level wandering around. Who knows what they can do at that point.

[MXdude]

420 FTW! They have a foul mouth http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I noticed too that AI seems to get better as i raise my Battle stat. Either that, or after the first couple runs i realized how to make it attack while playing a ranger. Just run past the enemy, then do a 180 and shoot at it, the PM will try and follow, but then they run into the enemy before they get to you, so they start fighting.

[SpishackCola]

my 430 > you

[Carbinne]

A friend of mine has the 430 I think and she's hilarious. She keeps popping up with eerily appropriate stuff like "Yeah!" after we bad-mouth some other friend of ours or grumble about something in-game. We all got a good laugh out of that one.

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-11-29 16:20, Garnet_Moon wrote:
She isn't supposed to be used in battle. She's a synth PM. Want a battle one? Get a 410 or a 450.



I lol'd

Theres more than 2 battle worthy PM

[Diablohead]

I got a 430 in the works, slightly worried but I think she will do fine.

[Garnet_Moon]

Well they can all be battle PM's... the trick is making them useful.

[Yoruichi]

yeah, umm go back to playing 95 levels of experience didn't help ya much

[Flunky]

I like my 430.

Aside from the usual NPC problem of deciding when to heal themselves (the 430 can, just only seems to actually -do- so once in a blue moon), the 430's pretty handy.

I'm not too keen on her pistol usage, but mine seems to favor the rifle a tad more (BT only at 5). The rifle is nice support for my hunter ways, what with the flinching and the freezing. That's some durned long freeze, too (L4 from what others say).

Sometimes I wish I went 420 or 440 (sorry, can't stand the look of the 410), but my 430's a nice complement with my cash runs of Lou, the 430 and I.

The 430 does heal more often than Lou does, I'll give it that- and it uses a cane to heal for 200+ each heal. Not much, but better than Lou's rod healing for 100ish each time.

[MXdude]

I actually have only ever played in a game with three different PMs. I wish there were more variety in PMs among the players. There is an amazing amount of the twin saber PMs, 410 maybe? Which ever is the pure striking PM. Anyways, as far as what iv seen(only being three PMs) they all seemed to be decent in combat.

[Garnet_Moon]

So you're trying to say 440 and 430 are useful outside of soloing with gimps? Right. You have entirely too much patience for those worthless piles of nuts and screws.

[Choja]

On 2006-11-29 16:44, SonicTMP wrote:
like the rest of the game. Getting your PM's combat level up is a grind. I've noticed my 420 has gotten a little more agressive as i get her up. Granted we don't really have anyone with 100 combat level wandering around. Who knows what they can do at that point.

Due to the research done by professionals, this is the process of quick battle level... leveling.

1: (optional) Switch to a hunter for more ATP.
2: Grab either: your best light spear or a handgun.
3: Find Guardian Colony's Linear Line C.
4: Spam (5-7 minutes per) mission with PM.
5: Rinse, repeat 4.

Or so I've heard. I'm making a crappy PM anyways.

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-11-29 17:23, Garnet_Moon wrote:
So you're trying to say 440 and 430 are useful outside of soloing with gimps? Right. You have entirely too much patience for those worthless piles of nuts and screws.



Lol to tell you the truth I don't really like the 410, and unless you have all these PM I wouldn't miss lead people. So far out of the TWO PM I have I like 420 the best compared to the 410.

I find this funny because so many people complained how obnoxious certain people could be, I won't name names, but atleast they had backrounds for thier opinions and reasons.

[Garnet_Moon]

A Battle PM is supposed to kill something, or keep you alive so you can kill.

Currently only 410 and 450 meet those requirements. My 430 and 440 are utterly useless. They don't do much of anything, and when they do it's unbelievably subpar.

Battle Ready PM =/= Gimps whom a player 20 levels below you can outdamage. (With one attack, against the combined attacks of that PM the entire mission)

The only one I don't have is the 420, and to be honest, from what i've seen it's just useless eye candy for pedos. At least 410 can throw out amazing numbers.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 17:36 ]</font>

[Yoruichi]

then you don't look hard enough and PM also help wit hstatus effects.

Not only was my PM pulling bigger special numbers (lower normal hits than 410) it was also doing physical CC. On top of that you can teach it to use axe, enough said

[Garnet_Moon]

Teach it to use axes? lol?

Link or it never happened.

[MXdude]

On 2006-11-29 17:33, Garnet_Moon wrote:
A Battle PM is supposed to kill something, or keep you alive so you can kill.

Currently only 410 and 450 meet those requirements. My 430 and 440 are utterly useless. They don't do much of anything, and when they do it's unbelievably subpar.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 17:36 ]</font>



http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif LIES! my 420 demolishes enemies with its PA attacks. She is the reason I can solo B rank missions, with out her, id be wasting mates and my time.

[Flunky]

So you're trying to say 440 and 430 are useful outside of soloing with gimps? Right. You have entirely too much patience for those worthless piles of nuts and screws.

Yeah, I'd say the 430's only really useful for soloing.

The freezing is something that players can't do right now, but in (hopefully) a week or two that'll be moot. Damage is nothing compared to player output. Lack of self-preservation instincts is no good, either.

I made the PM because it was something to do, truth be told. I was curious how it performed, etc. Having tried it for a spin I'd say the only reason you'd use a PM is if:

a) You've got 5 people (including a healer) and want a little power. Though they do need healing, they're durable enough to only require the occasional heal (something you think they could do, but eh).

b) You want one less person to be in the loot rolls in your group.

c) You're going to be soloing anyways, might as well bring something to help out a tiny bit.

Maybe, someday, the AI will improve. Probably not.

[Garnet_Moon]

GH410 can hold her own in any any party, the only problem is how random she can be.

So does my 410, MXdude.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 17:40 ]</font>

[SonicTMP]

On 2006-11-29 17:33, Garnet_Moon wrote:
A Battle PM is supposed to kill something, or keep you alive so you can kill.

Currently only 410 and 450 meet those requirements. My 430 and 440 are utterly useless. They don't do much of anything, and when they do it's unbelievably subpar.

Battle Ready PM =/= Gimps whom a player 20 levels below you can outdamage. (With one attack, against the combined attacks of that PM the entire mission)

The only one I don't have is the 420, and to be honest, from what i've seen it's just useless eye candy for pedos. At least 410 can throw out amazing numbers.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 17:36 ]</font>


Neudaiz Ruins A, my PM does 240 normal hits with her dark claw, I've seen 400 on the PA and like 560 crits on the PA. her twin daggers do like 210 on the PA and hit for 3 times per move. She does just fine in battle and she's only combat levle 6-7.

You might wanna wait till people have had time to fully develop their PM's before judging any as worthless.

[SpishackCola]

What are you waiting for then? Get that PM to B St 100 to have the proof.

[Garnet_Moon]

My 410 hits for about 130-160 on normal strikes, and about 300-600 to everything in front of her when she uses her Twin Saber PA. She does this on all mobs, not just on one mission against mobs of one certain element.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 17:44 ]</font>

[MXdude]

On 2006-11-29 17:39, Garnet_Moon wrote:
GH410 can hold her own in any any party, the only problem is how random she can be.

So does my 410, MXdude.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 17:40 ]</font>


Im not saying your 410 cant do that, im just defending my 420 which you called useless when it clearly isnt. Iv even been in parties where my PM out damages some of the hunter.

[Choja]

On 2006-11-29 17:41, SpishackCola wrote:
What are you waiting for then? Get that PM to B St 100 to have the proof.

Give me stuff that can raise all the stats of my PM to 25 each and make it a 440 then I'll try that, dear sir.

[SonicTMP]

Your uses heavy weapons, mine doesn't. mine has elemental advantage atm on one mob type. yours is netural.

[Garnet_Moon]

And the neutral one is making the one with the elemental advantage look gimpy on mobs of the right element.

Mine is also a PA spammer with infinate PP... is yours?

[Ryoki]

On 2006-11-29 17:44, MXdude wrote:

On 2006-11-29 17:39, Garnet_Moon wrote:
GH410 can hold her own in any any party, the only problem is how random she can be.

So does my 410, MXdude.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 17:40 ]</font>


Im not saying your 410 cant do that, im just defending my 420 which you called useless when it clearly isnt. Iv even been in parties where my PM out damages some of the hunter.

410 owns. But I would like to have a 420
I really do believe 410 is better, but 420 isn't far off, and if you like it more, than it is better.
I have too much EXP on my PM, I said forget making a 420. need that Synth boost.



________
Yamaha cs2x history (http://www.yamaha-tech.com/wiki/Yamaha_CS2x)

[Neith]

I'm raising a 430. Do I want to synth guns? No. Do I want something to kill mobs for me? Not particularly. What I want is support for my HU.

The 450's expensive as hell to raise, and it's bugged anyway, so I don't want one.

I'm sick of seeing the 410, it's like everyone has one. Plus, I use Twin Sabers/Sword anyway, so it's kinda pointless for me to have.

With the next patch, I'll be using a Claw, so I don't want a 420 either. Plus, I'm not keen on the 'gypsy get-up' it has.

That leaves me with a 430 or a 440. Chose 430 because long range support from a Rifle (especially freezing shots) could be incredibly useful to have alongside my HU.

I think your definitions of Battle PM need rethinking. A Battle PM is a PM that assists in battle- not necessarily by beating the hell out of mobs. Hindering mobs with Freeze (or Shock in the 440's case) is really handy, and the 450's heals will be great, when they finally get fixed.

For a HU, it's really useful to have a FO/RA PM for additional support, while you beat down things. As a RA, you might need a damage dealing PM, so a HU one might fit. For a FO, again, you might want a HU-bot to add to the damage you're dealing with techs.

[Flunky]

500-600 damage hits? Bloody PAs.

Yeah, in my experience the 430 does 200-300 per hit with the rifle- one shot every 3-5 seconds. Pistol fires a bit faster - about once every 2-4 seconds - but only does 120-170 damage. A rank mad creatures (intro Parum mission, the only one I currently bother to solo A rank).

Er, yeah.

[Garnet_Moon]

My 430 does 200+ to Fire Mobs, but as slow as she fires who cares? I just bring her along when i'm soloing.

[SonicTMP]

So your saying yours does that same amount of dmage in A rank neudaiz relics? one of the best leveling missions we have currently? level 45 monsters all with high defence? I've seen mine do said numbers on the stateria.

As for spamming. Ya she spams pretty good. Infinate PP? yeah, but then they all have that.

[Flunky]

Uriko, I'll tell you in my experience that as a hunter with a 430 support, it's only a small boon.

The fact that the 430 will only fire from about 5 feet away from its foes means it gets in the thick of things plenty. The lack of healing on itself makes it kinda like babysitting if you don't have a decent means of healing yourself.

The freezing and flinching from the rifle is handy, certainly- bringing along the 430 is better than going alone (at least if you either bring some star atomizers or don't mind not getting S rank), but at the same time I can't help but feel there's a lot of potential lost. With a few improvements to the AI (something as simple as raising firing frequency) it could be useful while still not nearly as 'powerful' as the hunter PMs.

[MXdude]

On 2006-11-29 17:48, Ryoki wrote:

On 2006-11-29 17:44, MXdude wrote:

On 2006-11-29 17:39, Garnet_Moon wrote:
GH410 can hold her own in any any party, the only problem is how random she can be.

So does my 410, MXdude.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 17:40 ]</font>


Im not saying your 410 cant do that, im just defending my 420 which you called useless when it clearly isnt. Iv even been in parties where my PM out damages some of the hunter.

410 owns. But I would like to have a 420
I really do believe 410 is better, but 420 isn't far off, and if you like it more, than it is better.
I have too much EXP on my PM, I said forget making a 420. need that Synth boost.





Im not saying 420 is better! lol, im just saying its not a pile of junk. The reason i picked 420 was because i liked the look of it. Then i was happily surprised that it was actually very powerful. Im also very happy i got a 420 because everyone and their mothers have 410s.

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-11-29 17:47, Garnet_Moon wrote:
And the neutral one is making the one with the elemental advantage look gimpy on mobs of the right element.

Mine is also a PA spammer with infinate PP... is yours?



My 420 PA spams, and from my experience not only are the PAs better (more range to hit multiple) but have a CC effect and higher damage%

As for my 410 Its PA can hit 1 target multiple times more than one if they are closely packed like one of the 420s. I just don't feel my 50s 410 damage was near my 40s PA damage damage. Normal swinging 410 wins hands down and it can easily hit multiple but they both mostly spam PAs.

[Garnet_Moon]

Neudaiz Relics mobs do NOT have high defense. Only the Tengoghs, Stateria, and Hippos do.

I don't know where you pulled that from, and I don't really want to know.

Relics is a Hunters playground because they are all one element, and have normal defense. They have less HP than most other things though. Trust me. I'm a Hunter. I'm the first guy in the party to notice damage reduction due to defense, and if Neudaiz had it, not a single Hunter would be there.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 17:58 ]</font>

[Yoruichi]

Oh my 40 420 was doing 550-610 in matoob(C, mabey B) if that place counts, if I want to cheat and count 35(B) agata since I do it almost exclusively shes staying about 550-610 on B rank. Haven't taken her past B rank.

[SonicTMP]

thats what? half the mobs in there. And all mobs are light type. 420 uses fast weapons and gets that sort of damage? She can do 2 hits for every 1 of a 410. She might have the multi-mob hit the 410 does but 1on1 she rips thru stuff like no tomorrow. And seeing as there are alot of large mobs with lots of hp and some witrh high defence? that works prefectly for her. I'm using her in an area she excels at. 410 is all around good but doesn't have anything spefific. Now if she gets some elemental effects to her sword at higher lvls. Now your talking big damage. Course none have one that high... so hard to tell what they can do later isn't it?

[Yoruichi]

lets say I was right, PAs on 420 are stronger but normal daamge is lacking...lets say im wrong 410 excels at all types of damage. It doesn't matter for one main reason why I choose 420.

What it came down to is this, 420 tosses mobs and is good at hitting multiple parts on single mobs. The best thing I like is it can flip the heavy mobs over and stun/stagger the unflippable(humanoid ones).

[Garnet_Moon]

Half the mobs? Clearly you need to go back to school and learn how to count.

Who cares what they can do later? They can't do it yet.

[Yoruichi]

lol I agree with garnet for once, when did half = 1 mini boss type?

[SonicTMP]

OK lets get technical then.

7 mob types in Neudaiz Relics.
(spelling maybe wrong.)
Ageeta - small

Gohmon - medium

Olhaka - medium

Kamatoze - large

Tengong - large

Svaltus - minboss, large

Galvapas - miniboss, large

So 2 mini boss types not 1. 4 out of 7 mobs are large type, have tons of hp and high defence. Tengongs are a little bit less defence but I do notice damage reduction on them vs the ageeta/gohmon/olhkana.

So techincally, half the mobs are large and have high defence. I'm not wrong, but I'm not entirely right either.

The general setup puts 2 mini bosses at the end of a B run, and 4-5 (3 galvapas is such a pain, 30 per hit on a rifle sucks) at the end of an A run. (haven't done a C ever so i can't vouch for it.) Granted you never see as many large mobs as you do the medium/small ones but 2 generally have enough HP to make up for a group of smaller ones.

So techncially I'm right, half the mobs are large and in charge, but techincally im wrong since half the number of mobs compose of the 3 medium/light types.

[Garnet_Moon]

"So techincally, half the mobs are large and have high defence. I'm not wrong, but I'm not entirely right either. "

No, you're still wrong. You only see 6-10 Kamatoze/Tengogh per mission, out of what, 100 something total? As for Svaltus and his little dog, that doesn't push past 50 either. The term you're looking for is "mob type".

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 18:37 ]</font>

[SonicTMP]

no im right. I pointed out reasons for both right and wrong. If you can't argue the entire post then you don't know what your talking about. Seeing as i've been running relics this entire time I know what im talking about.

[Yoruichi]

I'm confused what we were arguing then, Sva, the stupid dog and tengs have high defense if thats what this is about thought we were talking about matoob light based mobs

[SonicTMP]

the argument went into left field and is eating some crackerjacks. It will rejoin us in time.

[Garnet_Moon]

I don't care if you're running relics right now. I really don't. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

You're blind or a damned fool if you think anything that isn't Svaltus, Svaltus' Dog on b4 as well, Tengogh and Kamatoze have high defense on Neudaiz' Relics site.

[MXdude]

On 2006-11-29 18:41, SonicTMP wrote:
no im right. I pointed out reasons for both right and wrong. If you can't argue the entire post then you don't know what your talking about. Seeing as i've been running relics this entire time I know what im talking about.



honestly i found it hard to follow. You kept saying you were right but wrong at the same time..soo idk lol

[Yoruichi]

On 2006-11-29 18:46, Garnet_Moon wrote:
I don't care if you're running relics right now. I really don't. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

You're blind or a damned fool if you think anything that isn't Svaltus, Svaltus' Dog on b4 as well, Tengogh and Kamatoze have high defense on Neudaiz' Relics site.



Kama doesn't have high defense

[SonicTMP]

On 2006-11-29 18:48, MXdude wrote:

On 2006-11-29 18:41, SonicTMP wrote:
no im right. I pointed out reasons for both right and wrong. If you can't argue the entire post then you don't know what your talking about. Seeing as i've been running relics this entire time I know what im talking about.



honestly i found it hard to follow. You kept saying you were right but wrong at the same time..soo idk lol




It's not that hard. IT just depends on your point of view. I said "that's like half the mobs"

If you think, number of mobs. I'm wrong.

If you think, types of mobs. I'm right.

That's why i went into the technical part. There are other argument we could use for different points of view but no need to argue over those.


don't care if you're running relics right now. I really don't.

You're blind or a damned fool if you think anything that isn't Svaltus, Svaltus' Dog on b4 as well, Tengogh and Kamatoze have high defense on Neudaiz' Relics site.


You need to read what I said. I pointed out both sides of the argument. It's rather ironic to say I'm a fool when you don't even seem to understand this dicussion.

[Garnet_Moon]

ohhh yeah, I forgot for a second. Bullets are already low damage wise there with no elemental strength, but when I switched to my dagger the damage was as high as amy beast hunters.

Forgot to add Latuce Jigga/sp/? to the list.

I don't care what you posted, Sonic. I posted fact and you're calling me a fool for it. lol?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 19:03 ]</font>

[MXdude]

ah ok, now your argument makes more sense.

[SonicTMP]

On 2006-11-29 19:01, Garnet_Moon wrote:
ohhh yeah, I forgot for a second. Bullets are already low damage wise there with no elemental strength, but when I switched to my dagger the damage was as high as amy beast hunters.

Forgot to add Latuce Jigga/sp/? to the list.


Ya, we would need to add the rappies too. But since they are rare spawn I wouldn't really count them unless you want to get into every nook and cranny.



I don't care what you posted, Sonic. I posted fact and you're calling me a fool for it. lol?


Correction. Your calling ME a fool. I am simply stating you don't understand the argument presented here. Weither you choose not or if im explaining it in a bad manner or for another reason.

And what fact did you post? You'll do more damage with a dark and as a hunter vs a human as a Ranger? Your going to see higher damage with large weapon, as a hunter and witht he proper element. No argument there. Now witha netural element (at least netural to the mob element) you should be able to notice more of a damage differance.

I've admited to being wrong on one point of view. And I've proven I'm right on another. What have you stated as fact? 4 out of the 7 standard mob types have high defence. You want to get technical. Kamatoze has higher def than a tengong but a tengong has higher defence than agetta/gohmon/olkana.

I say the 3 small/medium mobs toegether cause from my char, I see myself doing about the same to each of those while the large mobs I notice a decent damage reduction. You could say they have higher defence, but they still have high defence compaired to the more abundant small/medium mobs.

If i'm wrong then prove it. I'm in relics, but if you don't care then what facts are you stating that can be correct?

[MXdude]

I believe this has gotten off topic >.>

[Garnet_Moon]

All I said was half the mobs don't have high defense. Then you went on and on about how these over here do, but these don't, and how you meant mob type and not number of mobs total.

As for...


And what fact did you post? You'll do more damage with a dark and as a hunter vs a human as a Ranger? Your going to see higher damage with large weapon, as a hunter and witht he proper element. No argument there. Now witha netural element (at least netural to the mob element) you should be able to notice more of a damage differance.
The fact I stated? The one at the top of this post in correcting you.

As for the Hunter v Ranger thing that is YOUR mistake for assuming I was comparing their damage for anything other than confirmation on damage reduction or not. Dualies don't do much on them without elemental strengths applied, so at first I thought they had it. Then I remembered when I used my dagger. The damage was what it should've been to disprove the damage reduction that follows with high defense.

The only things with damage reduction only spawn maybe 10 times per mission, excluding the final floor. That does NOT equal half the mobs.

That's all i'm getting at.

[VelosofLight]

I'm thinking of going either 440 or 430. Which is better...?

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-29 19:47, VelosofLight wrote:
I'm thinking of going either 440 or 430. Which is better...?


Depends on what you plan to use it for.

The usual route to get a 440 lets you craft high level armor.

The usual route to get a 430 lets you craft high level guns, bows, and rifles.

Neither will give you a worthwhile battle companion. Unless of course you don't care about finishing a mission in under 20-60 minutes solo depending on mission, then by all means grab them. Meh, their fun to look at I guess.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-11-29 19:50 ]</font>

[SonicTMP]

On 2006-11-29 19:36, Garnet_Moon wrote:
All I said was half the mobs don't have high defense. Then you went on and on about how these over here do, but these don't, and how you meant mob type and not number of mobs total.

As for...


And what fact did you post? You'll do more damage with a dark and as a hunter vs a human as a Ranger? Your going to see higher damage with large weapon, as a hunter and witht he proper element. No argument there. Now witha netural element (at least netural to the mob element) you should be able to notice more of a damage differance.
The fact I stated? The one at the top of this post in correcting you.

As for the Hunter v Ranger thing that is YOUR mistake for assuming I was comparing their damage for anything other than confirmation on damage reduction or not. Dualies don't do much on them without elemental strengths applied, so at first I thought they had it. Then I remembered when I used my dagger. The damage was what it should've been to disprove the damage reduction that follows with high defense.

The only things with damage reduction only spawn maybe 10 times per mission, excluding the final floor. That does NOT equal half the mobs.

That's all i'm getting at.



Your arguing one point of view. I'm aruging another then. The key words are "half the mobs." Open to interprtation wouldn't you say? As i explained to MXdude. If you think number of mobs then it's wrong. If you think mob type then it's right. Go back and look at my post. It's not edited. I never said number of mobs.

And why do you exclude the final floor? Cause only 2 mob types spawn in c/b? 4-5 of them spawn in A. They are still normal part of the mission. They aren't rare. You don't simply count part of the mission in this argument to win. I'm counting from the entire mission. Cause you don't skip block 4. You can't. You will always go thru it to compelete the mission. You will always fight the minibosses there.

As for the ranger vs hunter mistake. I made none. You were the one that brought it up first. You are right, a hunter does more damage so it's going to seem like they don't have as high as defence. I can see large damage reductions going thru on my character atm. With my rifle. 110-120 on the 3 small/medium mobs. 80 on a tengong. 35ish on kama. 30ish on the 2 minibosses.

Maybe the kama has ranged resistance? Not sure there. But there is a damage reduction on the large mobs compaired to the small mobs. Everything is the same level and element. So logically you would think the large mobs have a high(higher if you want) defence. Meaning more of a damage reduction from what you can put out.

You state no fact. Just your own point of view.

[Garnet_Moon]

Wait what the hell? Count certain exclude others...? Damnit you need an eye exam.

I said that combined with all the high defense mobs, it's not even 20% of the total mobs. Saying 50% of the mobs have high defense is wrong.

I'm not commenting on the hunter v ranger part because your brain isn't functioning properly or you didn't read what I said about it.

It's fact. Choose to believe it or not, I don't care anymore.

[VelosofLight]

As battle support for a Force.

Hey, my Ranger's 410 just healed me. Can it do that? O_o;

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-29 19:56, VelosofLight wrote:
As battle support for a Force.

Hey, my Ranger's 410 just healed me. Can it do that? O_o;


Then you want a 410. It's tough, it's reliable, it's easy to heal because if you wander too far she's right behind ya.

Ok, i'm done in this thread before I get another warning. Still got life left in me for this game, if but a little.

[VelosofLight]

But I already have a 410. Out of 430 and 440, which would be better?

[SonicTMP]

On 2006-11-29 19:54, Garnet_Moon wrote:
Wait what the hell? Count certain exclude others...? Damnit you need an eye exam.

I said that combined with all the high defense mobs, it's not even 20% of the total mobs. Saying 50% of the mobs have high defense is wrong.

I'm not commenting on the hunter v ranger part because your brain isn't functioning properly or you didn't read what I said about it.

It's fact. Choose to believe it or not, I don't care anymore.



Don't get confused by your own argument now. You keep trying not to count the minibosses, they are a part of the mission. Even if their are only 2 of them (4-5 as i have pointed out in A rank)

As for the fact, Let me repeat. I never said "number of mobs" I said half. One point of view vs another. I've explained both. You refuse to listen to that.

And my brains functions just fine thank you. I'm just not narrow minded like you beleive. I understand your talking about a hunter with a high atp weapon and dark element. I've been using my info as a ranger with a netural element.

On a personal note, you really need to stop throwing out insults when you don't like the argument.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-11-29 19:59, VelosofLight wrote:
But I already have a 410. Out of 430 and 440, which would be better?


Get another 410, or just flip a coin. Neither of them are useful to a Force.

I know, I lied. But this time i'm really outta this thread. lol

[SonicTMP]

seeng how far off topic we went. a mod might wannna lock thist. My applogoies to the OP and others for the derailment.

praise the holy flaaaaaaaaaaaaame!