Paying 400 meseta a minute for you help!

[ViciousXUSMC]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif yep thats right I am renting your service for a full 400 meseta a mintute!


this may appeal to you if your low level because thats ALOT of money to make even in a high lvl.


The job? Make newman characters and store there wands in your bank then PM me and sell them to me for 200 meseta each.

They say it takes about 30 seconds to make a char, 2 chars a min is 400 meseta.



for comparison at lvl 49 the BEST money I have ever made is soloing Relics A. It takes me about 30 mintues to get to block 4 and usually I make 2-3k by then. So on a GOOD day making 3k in 30 mintues is only 100 meseta a minute!

Your making 4x more money than me, I am paying the extra to pay you for the trouble and annoyance of creating so many characters.

If your intrested PM me, I would like to buy in bulk of 10+ wands at a time

[Rainey]

I'll do it. But probably only like 10-20 wands a day, I'm getting kind of sick of creating newmans XD

[ViciousXUSMC]

yeah i wouldnt expect a single person to do it for me, its somthing sombody can do really fast (say 10 guys) and make some extra cash on the side. Heck I would do it for sombody else 10 a day isnt bad.

I see you have a 100 tech PM is that how you got yours up all the way? Its so expensive buying weps/disks :/

Anyways thanks,

BTW PC/PS2 server peeps forgot to say that, I see your on PC Rainey.

[Rainey]

yea my pure tech is built upon the bodies of 2000+ dead newmans http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif I bought discs for like 20 lvls before I figured it's way faster to create newmans than to farm the meseta



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Rainey on 2006-11-30 01:14 ]</font>

[RussInDaHill]

LAME

[ViciousXUSMC]

LAME

1 worded post that make no sence are lame is it supposed to be self describing?

If your not intrested dont post simple as that.

-1 for the xbox crew.


I guess I will try doing it myself today and see how well it works. I did the math myself and its 4x faster to do this than farm the meseta but I cant do all 1750 newman genocides I would need for lvl 100 so maybe just a few here and there to cut the total cost down since at this rate I will never have money for upgrading my stuff when the patch comes around.

I'll be on at 9am EST since thats when I get home from work and most of the day/night probably since its my day off work as well. Just PM me on the forums when your ready to sell.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ViciousXUSMC on 2006-11-30 01:41 ]</font>

[RussInDaHill]

Edit by Moderator: Inappropriate. Stop trolling this thread please http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ViciousXUSMC]

Maybe you would others wouldnt. I already got PM's about peeps intrested. Esp sombody lvl 1 who just started the game there is no way to have a bettter income.

[Dr_Lantis]

Uhh... it's take one full minute to connect, recreate the mule, have the game load, store the wands, and return back to the title screen

[ViciousXUSMC]

no it doesnt :/ not for me and alot of others I am doing it right now since I ran out of money feeding my PM I am doing it in less than 30 seconds actually :/

but I have fiber optic internet and a FX-57 CPU so my computer is probably alot faster than yours.


edit: wow it works better than I thought! My box is full already and it didnt take very long.

I am just playing with the volume off so I dont hear all the sounds. I prob should have done this from the start and I would be 350k ritcher. I will still be paying everybody that has PMed me I will just stop buying disks all together and do this its much better.

Probably better to do it at night too so you can connect faster.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ViciousXUSMC on 2006-11-30 22:35 ]</font>

[Thoridan]

Um. I'm almost 100% sure Sega Team would find this action illegal in game. Not to mention it is entirely imoral and unethical. You are taking advantage of the game letting us erase chars we don't want anymore, and the fact that they give us a starter weapon.

I will make sure that Sega is notified of this ill-doing, and I shall expect them to look in to it and solve it by making it clearly against the rules or possibly updating to make it where you are limited maybe 10 characters created total or some other way to prevent this action that can be simply described with one word: CHEATING.

[SailorDaravon]

ROFL, are you serious? People have been doing this since day ONE on the JAPANESE release. It's extremely well known, and this is in fact how the vast majority of people got their armor and tech PM's to 100 (by stripping cast parts and wands respectively). It's been discussed multiple times and threads here, and tons of people mention doing it. It's the only pratical way at all to get tech and armor PM's up without spending an absolute insane amount of money. It's also a tactic that's been used in various games. The fact that you consider it "cheating" and "immoral" is the funniest thing I've read all day. Get the hell over yourself, and by all means please let us know when Sega determines it cheating and immoral.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif


Although re-reading your post it occurs to me that you may have been sarcastic. Please tell me you were being sarcastic.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SailorDaravon on 2006-12-01 18:10 ]</font>

[ViciousXUSMC]

haha, that is great.

go report hackers or somthing usfull http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif its not like its fun to do :/

armor is pretty fast, I bet 95%+ of everybody with a 100 armor Pm did this.

Also the only reason anybody does it is because they made PM raising un equal... 5*+ foods for 200 meseta that give +16 striking, and all the moons, sols, ect ect that people sell dirt cheap all get you a striking mag in no time.

They should have made food types for each PM and not just striking.

Anyways yes if your being sarcastic I would like to know, if not too bad for you just because sombody has a good idea and you dont like it.

What else following your rules is cheating?

Pricing items in your shop for higher than the npc: "taking advantage of players who dont know the item prices, taking advantage of the ability to own a shop", imoral, and unethical... so that meets the same criteria is that cheating too? You got a lot of reporting to do http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif see you never when you get done.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ViciousXUSMC on 2006-12-01 18:17 ]</font>

[Thoridan]

I have made Sega Team aware of this via Virtual message, and directed them to this thread for reference. Here is a copy of my message for you're information:

I would like to make you aware of an action that is taking place in the game quite frequently that, in my opinion, should be corrected swiftly:

Many users are creating accounts over and over again just to store the weapons or pieces the characters start out with in their "common box." After they have created numerous characters and stock piled a lot of such items, they then proceed to either feed these items to their Synthesis Machine, or will put them for sale in shop / give to buddies etc. I find this action unethical and it should be obvious that it is cheating. I hope you will make some action to fix it or atleast make it well known that it is considered cheating; because the only rule I could find that it would go against is "These are basic guidelines. The Phantasy Star Universe management group will take action against any behavior that it feels is inappropriate in circumstances that may not be mentioned here."

Thank you for your time and consideration.


A Loyal Player,
~Thoridan


P.S: To see this problem being discussed and other players (rather dissapointing) views on it, you can see the thread in this forum:

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=128515&forum=2&12








-----------------

I'm sorry if you guys don't agree with this, but I'm trying to do what's right for the game.

[SailorDaravon]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

And holy crap, you link them back to this thread, where you're the ONLY person complaining about it. You're making my weekend here dude.

I also just did a quick search on the official boards, there are quite a few threads about doing this or suggesting this, several of them posted in by mods. They don't care dude. Anyone can do it, and it affects an insignificant portion of the game that just balances things out for the tech PM people (since all the other PM's are very easy to raise mostly). It's also horribly cost effective as far as just doing it for money itself, it's just for getting your PM up a little faster for 450's only. It's not cheating or hacking, and if you honestly think it's immoral then I have no idea what to tell you then, except to maybe get outside some. I am possibly the strictest, most "legit" person out there, which is why I've had to quit every version of PSO to date due to cheating, and I can't even see this as a bad thing.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SailorDaravon on 2006-12-02 08:05 ]</font>

[Mystil]

x_x????

This is win win for both her and player. No rules are broken with this method. I wish I could do that with my striking PM >:/.

[Parn]

Anyone else find some serious irony behind someone spouting off on morals and ethics while having an AIM screen name of "Pimpmastafoote"?

How many illegal MP3s and unregistered copies of shareware do you have on your computer sir. Hope you don't frequent Youtube and Google Video, since they have a lot of illegally posted material. In the meantime, feel free to further explain how I have personally slighted you with my level 100 armor PM.

If the action were something Sonic Team did not want to happen, ever, they would have made it impossible to delete characters unless they're at least week old, or something similar that some other online games implement. It would have been patched by now.

[DikkyRay]

On 2006-12-02 06:15, Thoridan wrote:
I have made Sega Team aware of this via Virtual message, and directed them to this thread for reference. Here is a copy of my message for you're information:

I would like to make you aware of an action that is taking place in the game quite frequently that, in my opinion, should be corrected swiftly:

Many users are creating accounts over and over again just to store the weapons or pieces the characters start out with in their "common box." After they have created numerous characters and stock piled a lot of such items, they then proceed to either feed these items to their Synthesis Machine, or will put them for sale in shop / give to buddies etc. I find this action unethical and it should be obvious that it is cheating. I hope you will make some action to fix it or atleast make it well known that it is considered cheating; because the only rule I could find that it would go against is "These are basic guidelines. The Phantasy Star Universe management group will take action against any behavior that it feels is inappropriate in circumstances that may not be mentioned here."

Thank you for your time and consideration.


A Loyal Player,
~Thoridan


P.S: To see this problem being discussed and other players (rather dissapointing) views on it, you can see the thread in this forum:

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=128515&forum=2&12








-----------------

I'm sorry if you guys don't agree with this, but I'm trying to do what's right for the game.


HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT AN IDIOT!
dude do you realize you are pretty much saying "hey sega, let me kiss your ass. I want to make this game crappy for others" I mean come on! how the hell is this "cheating?" You are making a new character. It is yours, NOT SEGAS. Its is your decision if you want to take the weapons and give them to your pm. And why should sega care? All they care about is money. They get money, they are happy. To me, your super-elitism is ruining the game for me

[Thoridan]

Well, sorry I stand with my original statement. I'm not trying to flame or anything, just voicing my opinion and I am shocked that you guys don't have a conscience that alarms at the idea of doing this to clearly label it as wrong. But either way, I know its not the most drastic threat to legit game play; even still...it ticks me. :

[DikkyRay]

but it isnt wrong! I dont see where you are coming from (sry about my last post, im kinda pissed at something and took it out here). I mean, if sega did not want this to happen, they would not have made the community storage. Surely Sega already knows of this, and they can not do anything about it. Unless they take away the storage, but that would be unbelieveably retarded. So IMO this is a fairly legit way to get your pm to a hgiher lvl. YOU are making a character. YOU decide whether or not to keep him/her. YOU delete him and start over

[Thoridan]

Yes, but to stock-pike the items from each character you create then re create for the soul purpose of producing more free items is taking advantage of a good system. As mentioned by someone above, and I think it would be a good system: Sega should not let you delete any character that is under a day old. I think that would fix the problem.

[DikkyRay]

no, that wouldnt solve any problems, that would create more ppl getting angry at this game. Its like the whole duping deal of pso. Some ppl do it, some ppl dont. If you think its wrong, then dont do it, if you do like the idea, do it. Its your decision not othes

[Mystil]

I was hoping it would not come to this..

*walks to the barn yard with bat*

WAIT DON'T YOU DARE BEAT ME WITH THAT BAT. . . .I will talk..

...Dead horse speaks...

OMG RECREATING/DUPING CHARACTERS IS FOBIDD'IN IN PSU. WHAT THE FUX??!! BAD FO BAD FO. YOU RUIN GAME AND PISS OFF ONE PLAYA. AND YOU PAY'N PPL!! GAWD DAMMIT. omg...

OMG@@ PSOGC ALL OVA AGIN!!!11122threefourfive667

[Parn]

That logic doesn't hold DikkyRay. Duping items and recreating characters for getting newbie gear en masse are two seperate things. The newbie items, aside from being free partner machine food, are worthless. They sell for a meseta a piece for a reason.

[DikkyRay]

ack, thats what i meant. MAking chars for the sole reason of pm food. I dont see what the problem is, but appernetly some ppl do.
But apperently the whole allegory to duping didnt work out eh?

[hucast21]

user almost received a warning for this post.
go on people, nothing to see here!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rena-ko on 2006-12-04 04:28 ]</font>

[ViciousXUSMC]

Its good for the economy too, without this method you would see much much much less weapontry for forces wich means it would be hard to obtain force gear and it would be incredibly overpriced.

It also means you would see EVEN more 410 and other striking PM's in there place wich means it would be even harder to sell off those wares.

Same for the armor PM's

Anyways im glad the rest of the forum community has a good head on there shoulders and set you straight, back to the matter at hand I am still buying wands http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

LVL 56 got a long way to go!

[Maskim]

On 2006-12-02 08:41, Thoridan wrote:
Well, sorry I stand with my original statement. I'm not trying to flame or anything, just voicing my opinion and I am shocked that you guys don't have a conscience that alarms at the idea of doing this to clearly label it as wrong. But either way, I know its not the most drastic threat to legit game play; even still...it ticks me. :



No it's not any threat to legit gameplay. The JP players were doing this from release on their side of the world. The NA and EU players have been doing it since their release. Seg is well awar of this, they have to be with how publicised it has been, and they don't care. If they viewed it as a threat to he game's integrity, it would be addressed.

Although your intentions may be noble, you are getting caught up in the most trivial of percievable 'offenses' in the game. Perhaps you should focus your attentions on actual threats to the game, instead of wasting valuable time sega could be using trying to put a stop to the real threats to the game's economomy that are out there. I would much rather see those handing out ill gained meseta in uni 1 shut down, than honest players trying to get sega to punish other honest players.

The fact that you had to report it under the catch all, just in case, rule should be some indication. The only purpose to that rule to begin with is in conjunction with the right to revise the terms of service, when something s found in future updates, they can ammend it, and it's already been alluded to. Further, for when it is known that certain players are drastically negativey affecting the system, they can use this to effetively refuse service to them, without a long drawn out process

If anyone were to get even just a slap on the wrist for this horrific attrocity of 'cheating'...that would be an injustice.


Anyways...for some semblance of staying on topic:
Sounds like a pretty good deal Viscious. I'm gonna hafta pass though, recreating characters sucks hard. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Maskim on 2006-12-03 12:29 ]</font>

[ViciousXUSMC]

Heh, depends on your level of patience and alot on your connection.

Me with a fast computer and isp can make a char in close to 30 seconds for the whole deal (logon, create, store, log out) so I do sets of 20 here and there, a full feeding of 100 items I could do in probably an hour. thats 50k worth of disks... in an hour thats ALOT of money. even buying the rods from peeps they are making 25k+ from me at a time so nobody is complaning.

Still looking for more peeps to help me finish up. lvl 65 now, gonna probably do tech disks next feeding wich will put me at lvl 71, just PM me if your intrested.

[Nicodareus]

Eh.. By definition it IS cheating and an abuse of the system, but it's also not all that harmful to the balance of the game. Sonic team put in the 100 item feeding limit for a reason (And probably that EXACT reason..) It's also not against the rules.. Something being 'cheating' and something being 'against the rules' are two totally different things.. For example, by definition, looking up ANYTHING on a game is cheating.. Using a strategy guide is cheating.. Looking up how to do quests for online games is cheating.. However, preventing such things is generally fruitless and pointless in the end and only serves to degenerate from the greater good on such trivial matters. So.. Even though it may be cheating (By definition.. Not opinion.. Most people seem to think that cheating is an opinion for some reason.. LOOK IT UP IN THE DICTIONARY), it is not against the rules and it was a planned contingency for the balance of the game. The only way a valid complaint could be issued about this particular 'cheat' is if the 100 item limit to feed your PMs was not in effect. Keep in mind that MANY games have ways to cheat built into them intentionally to help balance out something that might be otherwise unbearable for players of certain types or skill.. In conclusion: Cheating is not always unethical/immoral nor is it always against the rules.

[ViciousXUSMC]

Dictionary please?

I dont think your definition is quite right, rather it sounds like what you want it to be.



edit: found this great site earlier from a link gave me lots of laughs, I here by designate you the Target! with a side of Cry Baby http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/target.htm

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/crybaby.htm


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ViciousXUSMC on 2006-12-04 03:33 ]</font>

[Nicodareus]

On 2006-12-04 03:29, ViciousXUSMC wrote:
Dictionary please?

I dont think your definition is quite right, rather it sounds like what you want it to be.



edit: found this great site earlier from a link gave me lots of laughs, I here by designate you the Target! with a side of Cry Baby http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/target.htm

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/crybaby.htm


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ViciousXUSMC on 2006-12-04 03:33 ]</font>


That's nice and all, but my post wasn't directed at you. Not even a single bit of it was directed at you honestly, so.. Good luck with that?

[ViciousXUSMC]

Mine wasnt directed at you eather http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif is your name "you" ??

[Nicodareus]

*mutters and scratches hir head* How confuzzling.. Sorry for misunderstanding n.n I'm a talker and I love to debate (Arguing is for the weak-willed.. I can't believe that some people actually get irritated from message boards.. Discussions are supposed to be light-hearted or at the very least, civilized..) but emotion is hard to convey through text.. So please forgive me if I seemed to be angry or some such. I only try to convey the facts that I know, but I dont expect everyone to believe what I say. It's human nature. After all, facts arent always necessarily true and I might be wrong, but what I say I still believe to be facts. Although, unless the definition of cheating has changed since I was a little kid, what I stated above is true. My father made me look it up when I was playing Phantasy Star 2. And definitions (And esepcially interpretations of definitions) can definitely change over the course of a couple of decades.

[Nicodareus]

Awwrr.. I just realized I totally got played for a chump! Ah well, Kudos to you on that! n.n

[Maskim]

On 2006-12-04 03:20, Nicodareus wrote:
Eh.. By definition it IS cheating and an abuse of the system, but it's also not all that harmful to the balance of the game. Sonic team put in the 100 item feeding limit for a reason (And probably that EXACT reason..) It's also not against the rules.. Something being 'cheating' and something being 'against the rules' are two totally different things.. For example, by definition, looking up ANYTHING on a game is cheating.. Using a strategy guide is cheating.. Looking up how to do quests for online games is cheating.. However, preventing such things is generally fruitless and pointless in the end and only serves to degenerate from the greater good on such trivial matters. So.. Even though it may be cheating (By definition.. Not opinion.. Most people seem to think that cheating is an opinion for some reason.. LOOK IT UP IN THE DICTIONARY), it is not against the rules and it was a planned contingency for the balance of the game. The only way a valid complaint could be issued about this particular 'cheat' is if the 100 item limit to feed your PMs was not in effect. Keep in mind that MANY games have ways to cheat built into them intentionally to help balance out something that might be otherwise unbearable for players of certain types or skill.. In conclusion: Cheating is not always unethical/immoral nor is it always against the rules.



There are many definitions for the word cheating, from use in baseball, having nothing to do with dishonesty, to fraudulent business practices. In this context though, as relating to a player of a game cheating to gain an unfair advantage...


cheat (chēt)
v. cheat·ed, cheat·ing, cheats

v. intr.

2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.

It would appear that as it relates to gaming, cheating, by definition as you had requested, is always breaking the rules. In an online game with a commuity, I also think it's fairly easy to argue that it is also immoral. Perhaps not so much immoral as just selfish...

All that said though, recreating characters in this game is not cheating. It's boring, yes. It's reprehensibly boring. It's not, however, cheating.

Should ST decide it is against their rules, at that point it will be cheating. At that point, I would probably report it too, as even the most trivial of offenses should be punished to set an example to ensure that PSU does not have a similar epidemic like PSO.

Until then, it's not doing anything wrong. More power to those who can actually sit through that bore, and if they do 'outlaw' it in the future, no repercussions should be sought after those doing it now, when it is 'legal' so to speak. Post-facto and all.

[T0m]

Cheating (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cheating&x=0&y=0), according to an online dictionary.
Not a single reference to Strategy Guides, or recreating characters while keeping their items. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif
Would it be cheating too, if instead of consulting a Guide, you asked a friend for hints? Or if you let that friend help you, or even play together? Come to think of it, playing online must be cheating!

But seriously, every word has so many definitions. In this dictionary, the one that seems to apply to gaming the most, is: "To violate rules deliberately, as in a game". So it depends on if anyone regards recreating characters as a violation of the rules.
In PSO it was common practice to make a character, just to get the right coloured mag. The mag would go to another, actually used character, and the new character would be dismissed. So this recreating didn't even start in the Japanese PSU, but in previous incarnations of PS.

[DikkyRay]

T0m that made me laugh LOL

[ViciousXUSMC]

And as sutch, I offically call the end of our debate. its not cheating, its not immoral, its fine.

There is a big diffrence from cheating and using game mechanics to your advantage.

The whole argument kinda reminds me of when I used to play street fighter, using my super moves was "cheating" to some people, to others it was playing your best. This was the same debate just a diffrent game.

Alas let the dead dog lie and lets get back on subject.

did disks today for one feeding, costed 50k :/ so now I have a lvl 71 PM thats 29 levels to go.

[Humblebum]

i agree thoridan, but it sure is a damn good idea. and tempting no less.
i don't think i'd have the patience though.
i have enough menial, mind numbing tasks at work...

[ViciousXUSMC]

Update PM is lvl 83 now 17 levels to go, anybody that wants quick cash PM me with wand sales before the event is over.

[Aegias]

Good luck with that, tech pm's are so broken http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif, they'll never be able to track this Scandalous trade because me and my army of minions have all created alts named Dierdre HAHA I win again sega!

*flees into the hills*

[ViciousXUSMC]

I'll just send Rugs and Doomop after you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Nicodareus]

And as sutch, I offically call the end of our debate. its not cheating, its not immoral, its fine.

It must be nice when your opinion (I wouldnt even call it that) when stated by you automatically becomes the winning argument.. Hell, I'd never lose one again!!


There is a big diffrence from cheating and using game mechanics to your advantage.

Just hearing that contradictory statement makes me laugh..


The whole argument kinda reminds me of when I used to play street fighter, using my super moves was "cheating" to some people, to others it was playing your best. This was the same debate just a diffrent game.

Actually you are comparing two very different arguments for two very different games.. Using what is provided deliberately to you to win is far from using what was adversely left in due to neglect/lack of care of programmers... After all, you could dupe and walk through walls in PSO without any cheat device.. I guess you wouldn't consider that cheating either.. All in all, I'm not going to go with the definition mused up from what has proven time and time again to be a crappy online dictionary (Yes, I'm referring to dictionary.com...) but stick with the more logical definition that applies to everything I've already said.. Ye can go on believing its not cheating all ya want and it wont ever really affect me, but as far as I and -most- adults are concerned taking advantage of ANY unfair situation, including Strategy guides is cheating.. *scratches his head* So yeah.. Like I said before.. Cheat all you want, as such a minor cheat doesnt bother me at all.. (Or apparently Sonic Team..) We could argue semantics all day long and in the end, we'll just both be right in our own heads. So, argue it further if you wish and I'll concede the argument, but not my stance on it.

"Hey.. W-wait.. I was born with X-ray vision.. It's not cheating!! R-really!! *pop-thwack-wham*"

[Maskim]

On 2006-12-16 03:41, Nicodareus wrote:

And as sutch, I offically call the end of our debate. its not cheating, its not immoral, its fine.

It must be nice when your opinion (I wouldnt even call it that) when stated by you automatically becomes the winning argument.. Hell, I'd never lose one again!!


There is a big diffrence from cheating and using game mechanics to your advantage.

Just hearing that contradictory statement makes me laugh..


The whole argument kinda reminds me of when I used to play street fighter, using my super moves was "cheating" to some people, to others it was playing your best. This was the same debate just a diffrent game.

Actually you are comparing two very different arguments for two very different games.. Using what is provided deliberately to you to win is far from using what was adversely left in due to neglect/lack of care of programmers... After all, you could dupe and walk through walls in PSO without any cheat device.. I guess you wouldn't consider that cheating either.. All in all, I'm not going to go with the definition mused up from what has proven time and time again to be a crappy online dictionary (Yes, I'm referring to dictionary.com...) but stick with the more logical definition that applies to everything I've already said.. Ye can go on believing its not cheating all ya want and it wont ever really affect me, but as far as I and -most- adults are concerned taking advantage of ANY unfair situation, including Strategy guides is cheating.. *scratches his head* So yeah.. Like I said before.. Cheat all you want, as such a minor cheat doesnt bother me at all.. (Or apparently Sonic Team..) We could argue semantics all day long and in the end, we'll just both be right in our own heads. So, argue it further if you wish and I'll concede the argument, but not my stance on it.

"Hey.. W-wait.. I was born with X-ray vision.. It's not cheating!! R-really!! *pop-thwack-wham*"



Over a week late, and a dollar short.

The definition given from dictionary.com is very similar to that of websters in this case. Cheating can obviously mean different things to different people, however if you want to go by its actual definition, well in regards to a game, it's been posted.

This argument has been weighed, measured, and found wanting.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Maskim on 2006-12-16 04:21 ]</font>

[Cleric1]

Dierdre... my aim is mxocelot give you msn if you PM me... I'll help. No charge. (just to help get the last lvls... If I was more active in the forums I would of posted sooner).



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cleric1 on 2006-12-16 19:52 ]</font>