Any other Rangers ignoring A-rank Rifles?

[Remedy]

Just curious if I was the only Ranger player (she's only 26/7, but I've got a decent grasp on the class) that's going to ignore A-rank rifles altogether because of their abysmal PP pool (1100-ish for a 7* GRM versus 1414 for a 6* Yohmei). I won't go any further in my reasoning until someone asks, because apparently the answer tends to be a bit polarizing. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

[Lastat27]

I will most definately be using the 7 star Phantom rifles. Combined with a Phantomline line shield you get it's set bonus of +ATP +ATA +DFP. I'm not sure of the actual percents of increase when compared to the Crimsonline set.

As far as PP goes. I would use Tenora brand for every weapon if I could. You just carry more weapons around.

[Akaimizu]

Actually, I'll answer you with my thoughts. I'm not too particular with other guns I use. Tynselle is a Dual pistols lover, so I always keep two sets of them, on board. However, I also keep rifles for two reasons.

One as another gun to use when the others run out, and two for single shot power. As for PP, I'll really have to see how well they hit as I know from experience, high PP alone does not make a great weapon. Between my two Pistols, my favorites are actually the ones with a little lower PP because they hit hard enough to make up the difference, and then some. The harder you hit, the less you have to shoot, the lower the amount of PP you use.

Then you think about your accurracy levels. How often will you hit a critical, or hit hard enough to stop a monster (and/or) stop a monster attack. Now for my role (hunter support) that is the most important, as I want as many opportunities as possible, to stop a monster from attacking a hunter even after they start attacking.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-04 11:59 ]</font>

[Kyuu]

I've found that the Yohmei rifles tend to grind very, very well, and easily make up their ATP deficiency if you're willing to risk grinding to +5 or more, while having much more PP.

[ChyronType0]

I will be focusing heavily on rifles so personally I wont be ignoring them. I'll be using, grinding, selling and synthing them.

[Akaimizu]

I've actually really worried about the risk, to tell you the truth. This is mainly due to the luck factor. Then again, when you grind the ATP versions, you also see some similar efficiencies, on their part.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-04 12:01 ]</font>

[Remedy]

Right, in addition to the Falgohoh (6* Yohmei) having more ATA than the Phantom and like... 1 ATA less than the Assassin (8* GRM rifle), as well as having more PP without grinding than the 9* GRM rifle. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

And yeah, Aka, while flinching is nice and all, I really feel that a Ranger's true power is in laying status effects. Burn 4, Shock 4, and Silence 4 are all a godsend (once we can hit Fortegunner and get 21+ rifle shots), and if you're gimped by a 300+ less PP pool, that's another 40-ish shots you can't take. Not to mention that Yohmei rifles get a nicer PP regeneration rate than GRM...

Edit: And are you guys forgetting that you can't grind A-rank weapons? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2006-12-04 12:02 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

Actually, I believe the Attack Accurracy thing works for both Stopping power and chance to cause a status ailment, as well. From my experience. Then again, I've only been using weapons up to B-rank so I didn't know A-ranks don't grind.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-04 12:05 ]</font>

[Remedy]

Yeah, you can't grind them yet. The board for Grinder A isn't out yet - even in Japan - which means that your A-ranks are going to be locked at their current stats for a while, at least.

Yes, I may consider going to 9* GRM rifles once I have Giga/Bullet PP Save, but probably not until then. The loss of nearly 200 PP over an ungrinded Falgohoh (and almost 500 over a +10 Falgohoh!) is just too crippling, especially for a Status Support Fortegunner.

Falgohoh +0: 1414PP, 284 ATP, 154 ATA
Falgohoh +10: 1698PP, 544 ATP, 154 ATA
Assassin: 1193 PP, 443 ATP, 152 ATA
Burst: 1228 PP, 500 ATP, 170 ATA
Phantom: 1263 PP, 541 ATP, 188 ATA

Yeah, the GRM rifles get better ATA, sure... but losing 400 PP and... 3 ATP? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Remedy on 2006-12-04 12:09 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

Gotcha. I'm hoping to make up the difference with Buff/debuff techniques as a Guntecher. That is, when the day arrives to do such a thing. I'll probably also work with Fortegunner, a little while, since I only need 3 more Ranger levels to do it. I'll eventually get that to 10.

[Lastat27]

and if you're gimped by a 300+ less PP pool, that's another 40-ish shots you can't take. Not to mention that Yohmei rifles get a nicer PP regeneration rate than GRM...

O.o Erm....

[Edit] I Read your next post

As far as having 300 PP less, this is such a trivial matter. Instead of carrying 3 Yohmei Rifles you simply carry 4 GRM rifles giving you the same PP. Easy as that. Not to mention being able to use the dozens of photon charges I've saved up.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lastat27 on 2006-12-04 12:15 ]</font>

[PaladinRPG]

Hmm, so Grinder A isn't out in japan? I guess all those bases I've been saving are a little useless as of yet. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Remedy]

That's correct, Lastat, you have Grinder Base As. However, you need a Grinder A board to make A-Grinders. Now, unfortunately for you, the Grinder A board isn't out in JP OR US PSU.

Oops. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[ChyronType0]

On 2006-12-04 12:10, Remedy wrote:
That's correct, Lastat, you have Grinder Base As. However, you need a Grinder A board to make A-Grinders. Now, unfortunately for you, the Grinder A board isn't out in JP OR US PSU.

Oops. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Damn Sega, giving me useless grinder materials to horde.... Oh well, I guess I would consider ignoring A-rank rifles then. lol

[Umberger]

Odd that they won't release the [B] Grinder A, I just found a Grinder Base A and was looking forward to having a head start. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

But as for me, in my Extra Mode Ranger character, I found Rifles pretty much the best way to go, but stuck with GRM. The Yohmei PP boost is more of a Force thing...as a Ranger, I'd prefer the power. Although I'm not one to take risks grinding...don't see the use in grinding any weapon past 2 and risking breaking the thing I just spent a considerable amount of my money. Maybe when the economy becomes even more saturated with meseta and those items actually sell for 100,000 I'll be able to grind past 2.

Point is, if it has to be an ungrinded weapon, I'd stick with GRM. Grinded, I'd go with Yohmei. Tenora just has way too little PP, and at +10 probably has the same amount as a GRM at a much lower level...but I suppose if you're not soloing, then an extremely strong weapon like a Tenora Works weapon would be quite useful.

[Remedy]

Yes, but see, Umberger, that's the thing. A Ranger's damage isn't coming from his ATP stat. A Ranger's damage is coming from landing Burn 4 on mobs, doing 5% of their total HP every 2 seconds. On S-rank stuff that has like...

*checks PSU JP Wiki*

Oh, anywhere from 30k HP to 70k HP, your Burn 4 will be doing anywhere from 1500 to 3500 damage every 2 seconds. No one can put that kind of damage out but Rangers with Burn. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Ether]

That sucks that A rank grinders aren't out yet. I was really looking forward to horror stories of people breaking their brand new 90k weapons

[Lastat27]

I would rather carry around 10 Tenora Rifles with 500 PP then two Yohmei Rifles with 5,000. The ATP and ATA is simply no contest. PP is a very minor stat in this game. As long as you have enough weapons / PP to get to the end of even the longest PSU level then Tenora is always god.

[Remedy]

Except there are only GRM rifles when you get to 7* and up, Lastat. And yes, while you may have a point about the ATA (the second most important RA stat), ATP is not something that a Ranger should be so deeply worried about, IMO. As long as you can hit consistantly and do at least 1 damage (enough to trigger statuses), you're golden. From there, you want as much PP as possible.

[Itsuki]

Oh, anywhere from 30k HP to 70k HP, your Burn 4 will be doing anywhere from 1500 to 3500 damage every 2 seconds. No one can put that kind of damage out but Rangers with Burn.

Foie inflicts level 4 burn aswell.

[Lastat27]

I love status effects, specifically Burn on a Rifle for large mobs, and shock on a Shotgun. But I don't see why Rangers see ATP as such a useless stat. At the moment I'm doing 260 dmg with each Rifle bullet (using elemental weakness.) There's no way I'm trading this in to land a few more status effects. I'm sure 500-600 damage a shot won't be far off in the future.

[Umberger]

That is a very good point Remedy...sorry, I didn't play as a Ranger for very long, and my online character is a FOnewearl, so my opinion might be less than accurate.

Never new that the % done from burn was based on their HP, I thought it would have been based on one of your stats. That pretty much completely changes my opinion then...Tenora Works sounds like a bad choice, and Yohmei is starting to look like the best choice for support Gunners, or even solo-ers.

The only problem is, does that fire bullet burn whenever it hits? Because you could just be doing fire damage and missing the burn status affliction a lot...much like using Foie. I suppose there's also the Dark/Megid style bullets to cause infection (do they do that or is that just for Forces?).

[Remedy]

Well yeah, but Foie's slower than a Rifle. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Plus, I wouldn't be using Foie exclusively - I use the element that corresponds to the area and the mobs when I play my FO. When I play my RA, I tend to try and lay Burn, Shock, and Silence (if needed) in that order.

[Remedy]

Yes, Umberger, Dark bullets cause Infection, and I'm ditching all my Fire bullets for Dark bullets when they come out. Infection 4 is vicious - 5% every 4 for 32 seconds - taking a total of 40% of a mob's HP out. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[AngelLight]

Here's an interesting debate for all of you.......when they become available (sadly not this update) will you still stick it out with Burn or will you move on to Virus?

Edit: LOL, you all started posting about this before I was ready...BAD....BAD POSTERS you http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AngelLight on 2006-12-04 12:34 ]</font>

[Lastat27]

Fire vs. Infection is a tricky choice.

Level 4 Infection deals 5% of the mobs hp every 4 seconds for 32 seconds.

Level 4 Burn also deals 5% of the mobs hp but every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

Infection lasts longer, but burn deals damage two times faster. All situational I guess. Depends how often you are able to stick Burn. I still think Burn outdamages in the long run. Infection is definately better as a Level 1 and 2 status effect though as it deals 5% hp even at those levels.

[AngelLight]

one key thing though Lastat....Virus kills, Burn does not.

[Remedy]

Well, there's a trick to Infection, Lastat.

You can't Burn AND Freeze. You CAN (I believe - correct me if I'm wrong on that, Itsuki-chan, the "translated" wiki's a bit muddled on this) Infect AND Freeze. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Step 1: Freeze stuff
Step 2: Infect it
Step 3: Watch it die

[Lastat27]

Not much of a concern when you have 6 people beating on a mob with 1 hp left.

[AngelLight]

yep you can stack those buffs remedy. This was discussed in another post, between myself, Itsuki, and Panzer. I believe its in the main ranger post. Will post excerpt later...

[Pure-chan]

On 2006-12-04 12:36, Remedy wrote:
Well, there's a trick to Infection, Lastat.

You can't Burn AND Freeze. You CAN (I believe - correct me if I'm wrong on that, Itsuki-chan, the "translated" wiki's a bit muddled on this) Infect AND Freeze. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

Step 1: Freeze stuff
Step 2: Infect it
Step 3: Watch it die




...can you burn and infect? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/cat.gif

[Golto]

When I started off as a ranger riifles came in real handy but when my base atp could make up the difference in total atp I switched to twin handguns and shotguns. For twin handguns pp is the key so I go with Yohmei. The difference in atp is so small that the 40-50atp(what is that like 10-12 dmg) difference really doesn't matter. Yohmei Twins also get more pp regen per tick. I still like the GRM rifles though against those big monsters w/ 2x dfp.

[Lastat27]

I could see the usefulness of infecting multiple mobs with a shotgun, and then freezing them and watching them die. But for large mobs I will still use Burn without a doubt.

Of course there will always be mobs somewhat immune to burn or infection in which case it always nice to have both,

[panzer_unit]

I don't like weapons that are chronically short on PP, but I don't see a lot of point in going overboard either since it's easy to get photon charge back... checkpoint back to the field lobby at the start of the block, charge at the cube before the boss, and pop a charger if you're in the middle of a fight.

+10 Falgohoh looks nice compared to Phantom supposing the ATA penalty doesn't totally kill it. On the other hand it also looks comparably hard to get... you're going to break a lot of rifles trying to get that +10 I think.

[Schubalts]

Just to add...

If infection is every 4 seconds for 32 seconds, it will deal more than a burn that is every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

4/32=8 2/10=5

Just felt like adding that.

[Merumeru]

XD holy crap interesting thread read, guess Miyumiyu will be a lot more useful than i though X3

[Remedy]

You can't stack Burn and Infection (and Poison), though, Pure-chan. The more powerful one takes precedence. Infection > Burn > Poison

Otherwise, a Ranger could single-handedly take out 60% of a mob's HP. That would be just a bit nuts. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[ChrisKo]

Just curious if I was the only Ranger player (she's only 26/7, but I've got a decent grasp on the class) that's going to ignore A-rank rifles altogether because of their abysmal PP pool (1100-ish for a 7* GRM versus 1414 for a 6* Yohmei). I won't go any further in my reasoning until someone asks, because apparently the answer tends to be a bit polarizing.

If all you look at when comparing weapons is PP, then your decision making for weapons will generally be different than everyone else http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif. lol.

[AngelLight]

ok found the info....it was quite a while ago, but it seems what was basically said was that DoTs dont stack with each other nor Freeze, but it should stack on Shock/Silence (not sure on sleep).

It's on the main Ranger Thread Starting on page 23 and going into the next page or two, Itsuki's confirmation is post # 345 (It's been ages since I was a ranger LOL, though I may be going back to it pretty soon).

http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=120501&forum=22&start=330

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AngelLight on 2006-12-04 13:00 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2006-12-04 12:44, Schubalts wrote:
Just to add...

If infection is every 4 seconds for 32 seconds, it will deal more than a burn that is every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

4/32=8 2/10=5

Just felt like adding that.


... can you burn monsters multiple times? 'cause then it looks more like 4/32 vs 4/20, plus time taken to cause the second burn of course.

[Ceresa]

Oh, anywhere from 30k HP to 70k HP, your Burn 4 will be doing anywhere from 1500 to 3500 damage every 2 seconds. No one can put that kind of damage out but Rangers with Burn.

What

The

Hell

If you're going to use the jp wiki, don't insult it with such gross misrepresentations.

Daberans, are probably the only non-boss enemy with 70k hp, and they are rare monsters. "Mini-boss" crap like Kamatouzu, Tengohg, Seed Vance etc have some pitiful 20k- 30k. So you're doing that craaaaazy burn dmg on...3 mobs per run? lol

Standard S trash has 6000-8000 hp only, burn does about 300 every 2 at lvl 4. My force does 1000 every second with damu-whatever.

[lordzanon]

currently the burzah has 383 atp grinded to lvl5 and the vulls has 417 grinded to lvl 7,take 2 lvls and it might be a few atp more than the burza, hands down ill take the burza

[panzer_unit]

We all know Yohmei weapons pull ahead in the middle grind values. What if you take both weapons to +10?

Personally, I like GRM stuff because you can stop at +3 with some good-looking stat boosts.

[Shadow_Wing]

I just utterly hate the look of Yohmei rifles, I'm a GRM fan personally when it comes to rifles.

I think in the end, since both rifles are good in their own way, even though grinding lowers the difference between both rifles ATP, they have their own subtle differences.

I think in the end it'll end up as preference, since I handle quite well as a GRM exclusive ranger, cept for shoties, since they're only Tenora, it's just GRM rangers will have to carry a few more rifles than Yohmei users.

And also, I like the looks of the A rank rifles XD.

And also, it'll be hard strech to expect you can sport at least 2-4 Burz+10 without breaking a lot along the way.

On the note of grinding GRMs grind well at the 1-3 mark and 8-10 mark



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shadow_Wing on 2006-12-04 13:46 ]</font>

[MXdude]

I like carrying one rifle just to whip out on things that have high def. So instead of doing 0, i can do like 30 :s whoopie! lol



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MXdude on 2006-12-04 13:50 ]</font>

[Reiichi]

You can't status what you can't hit. Go for the ATA of the 8* and carry an extra. You'll be able to afford plenty for the price of a +10 6*.

I'm not particularly fond of the 7* and 8* rifles in terms of looks (and yohmei rifles are just fugly) so I'll be working on a 6* kubara set http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif Looks > stats.

[Akaimizu]

Funny enough, that's my motto as well. Then again, ATA and how often you actually hit them with statuses, seem directly proportionate (in my experience). Those crazy flies, in Parum, with the insane dodging ability has greatly risen my preference for ATA.

Still, I'm not so passionate about this whole stat thing, when it comes to the minute details. In nice groups, PP is not even a factor, for me, as long as the PP is good enough. So I like to concentrate on how much I can contribute to the group in terms of damaging and helping out others. But as I mentioned before, I tend to choose weapons also based on my actual character's prefs as well. Right now, rifles, in general, don't have as much priority in my choices as Dual Gunnies do.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-04 14:05 ]</font>

[Fleur-de-Lis]

As a lowbie, I can only comment in so far as I have experienced. I can say that my plans are to stick with Yohmei rifles and handguns and of course Tenora shotties until I can reliably synth Kubara guns and bows. I haven't tried my luck at grinding yet because I view C-Rank grinding as a waste of money and time, at least for me. However, as the point of the topic was in relation to GRM firearms which are not to my liking, perhaps my whole post is invalid.

[panzer_unit]

Do grind your C rank equipment. It's a free power-up, and what else are you going to do with your pile of Grinder Base C?

[Akaimizu]

That depends on how far they've taken their character. I don't think the major amount of Grinder Base Cs really roll in until you get to your high 20s, low 30s. Before that, you get them occassionally.

[Tra]

Remedy is just a noob with wishful thinking, I doubt you'd even get your ranger high enough to enter S-rank missions

[Zerrius]

I find it hard to justify using Yohmei because it has a bigger pp pool. If you find pp to be a concern, its easy enough just to get another rifle. Seems like the only reason people use Yohmei is to save money. They want the extra pp because they don't want to buy another rifle. They need the extra regen because they don't want to buy another rifle or pay as much to recharge.

I feel that Yohmei is more suited for those that carry around 1, maybe 2 rifles, like a guntecher. But for serious rifle using Rangers and Gunners who haul around 4 or more rifles, GRM is the way to go.

Also keep in mind when comparing the ATP and ATA differences between Yohmei and GRM, that since we are always using a bullet, we only get 70% of the ATA difference, but we get 130% of the ATP difference (assuming lvl 20 bullet).

[ChrisKo]

I find it hard to justify using Yohmei because it has a bigger pp pool. If you find pp to be a concern, its easy enough just to get another rifle. Seems like the only reason people use Yohmei is to save money. They want the extra pp because they don't want to buy another rifle. They need the extra regen because they don't want to buy another rifle or pay as much to recharge.

I feel that Yohmei is more suited for those that carry around 1, maybe 2 rifles, like a guntecher. But for serious rifle using Rangers and Gunners who haul around 4 or more rifles, GRM is the way to go.

Also keep in mind when comparing the ATP and ATA differences between Yohmei and GRM, that since we are always using a bullet, we only get 70% of the ATA difference, but we get 130% of the ATP difference (assuming lvl 20 bullet).

Exactly what all the experienced rangers were thinking lol. No one wanted to take the time to explain it to Remedy.

[Dukelion]

I second Zerrius. Now that I got to my goal of reaching the level cap I started thinking about weapons a I want for update. I know rifle will be my main focus, with dual pistols as the "haha im stafing you f__ker! CANT HIT ME NOW CAN YOU" option. I am also getting Grenade Launchers and Laser Cannons just cause I love me some big cool lookin weapons.

Either way I am getting any A-S rank range weapons regardless of what kind as long as it looks cool.

You PSO people know what I am talking about. Nothing Like showing off the best/collest weapons in the game ESPECIALLY when you can't even use them and other people want them.

[Nani-chan]

On 2006-12-04 12:22, Lastat27 wrote:
I would rather carry around 10 Tenora Rifles...

LOL

Vullseye (5) GRM *5
PP 1207/1207
Atp 402
Acc 116

Burzaihoh (6) Yohmei *5
PP 1500/1500
Atp 406
Acc 133


That's really the best I can do at the moment. After this point it becomes a less than 50% chance for each grind.

I'm more intrested about making/getting one "Evil Twins".

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2006-12-04 17:55 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

I don't really know, but I recommend nobody pay attention to Remedy's evaluations, as based on previous evidence he doesn't seem to know what he's talking about.

I mean Remedy, you were saying FOs who used wands were really stupid.

[MXdude]

I find it hard to run out of PP with a full party even with Tenora works.

[Fleur-de-Lis]

On 2006-12-04 14:14, panzer_unit wrote:
Do grind your C rank equipment. It's a free power-up, and what else are you going to do with your pile of Grinder Base C?

If I have a healthy pile of Grinder Base B, it seems like it would be better to use those instead, while saving and/or selling the Base C to those who can only equip C-Rank weapons.


On 2006-12-04 16:12, Zerrius wrote:
I feel that Yohmei is more suited for those that carry around 1, maybe 2 rifles, like a guntecher. But for serious rifle using Rangers and Gunners who haul around 4 or more rifles, GRM is the way to go.

What would you recommend for Protransers?

When it is said and done, are these firearms a means to the end of hitting Ranger 5, or are they an investment to take with me as an advanced type? I saved Ranger until last for a reason, though I wish I could remember what it was. But if I'll be keeping the guns until I can find/synth some good A-Rank firearms, I'd rather not have them be ones that I find ugly.

In any case, it's good to get some differing perspectives on the matter.

[SolRiver]

Although I am not going to use rifle at all (bow/protranser/etc), but as a caseal, I want every atp to help me fill my SUV faster. No, I don't want to get hit.

I wonder what will I focus on first as well, too many options. None of them is really wrong. Probably either axe/spear (maybe sword if i decided i dislike axe), and laser cannon/bow and 1 grenade launcher if I decide to have fun with it.

With such low starting ATP, I would probably focus on status first than melee damage. So probably 2 laser cannon, 2 bows, 1 launcher to start out. Maybe a shotgun too if I feel like it (didn't turn into protranser just so I can play shotgun, hence last on list).


I would love to start out with hunter weapon to lv faster, but chances are my ATP is down low in the pit and not meet the requirement. While I am afraid that this might happen to ranger weapons too... so inflicting condition with low grade ranger weapon is the winner. (or spend money on traps)

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2006-12-04 23:17 ]</font>

[Kaply]

1 - Why are you comparing the top tier B rank weapon with the lowest tier A rank weapon.
2 - To go by the logic that you want to be the character the focuses solely on apply status effects on enemies. You need the highest ATA you can get. 8 star will get you that. Missing a hit means you lost the chance to apply a status effect. This means you just wasted the bullet. Over the course of the mission that extra PP from the lower grade rifle will be used up from your misses.
3 - I believe the 8 star grm rifle has 170 ATA. It's a bit off from the 154 of the 6 star yohmei rifle.
4 - Increasing the damage of the bullets is better than relying on burn effects to happen on higher level enemies. The weak enemies burn easily, but then a few more bullets would have killed them anyway. The hard enemies resist burn too often to count on it.

[Realmz]

i think the only A ranks i'll be getting is of things i'm probably not gonna grind anyway (shot guuuuns) and maybe some twins.

i just need to get the money for it...

[panzer_unit]

On 2006-12-04 23:11, SolRiver wrote:
Although I am not going to use rifle at all (bow/protranser/etc), but as a caseal, I want every atp to help me fill my SUV faster. No, I don't want to get hit.

SUV fills based on # of hits (both dealt and taken) rather than damage done/taken. ProTrancer's best options there seems to be Shotgun or Spear... maybe good old Handgun + Saber depending on what you're trying to kill.

Get comfy with the weapons you've been using up to this point - especially bows, since they're specced for characters with low physical stats - because I think we're going to need to earn a bunch of job ranks before our stats are up in Axe / Grenade / Laser land.

[Niered]

On 2006-12-04 16:22, ChrisKo wrote:

I find it hard to justify using Yohmei because it has a bigger pp pool. If you find pp to be a concern, its easy enough just to get another rifle. Seems like the only reason people use Yohmei is to save money. They want the extra pp because they don't want to buy another rifle. They need the extra regen because they don't want to buy another rifle or pay as much to recharge.

I feel that Yohmei is more suited for those that carry around 1, maybe 2 rifles, like a guntecher. But for serious rifle using Rangers and Gunners who haul around 4 or more rifles, GRM is the way to go.

Also keep in mind when comparing the ATP and ATA differences between Yohmei and GRM, that since we are always using a bullet, we only get 70% of the ATA difference, but we get 130% of the ATP difference (assuming lvl 20 bullet).

Exactly what all the experienced rangers were thinking lol. No one wanted to take the time to explain it to Remedy.



This theory is not entirely true. As a level 50 ranger, I carry 1 yohmei rifle grinded to +3. A common misconception in rangers is that you need multiples of weapons like rifles. This is only true if you are in desperate need of leveling PA's, otherwise, there is another solution. Carry in your action pallete one of every type of weapon/combination. I carry a saber/handgun, dual handgun, rifle, mechgun/dagger, and shotgun at all times. This is only 5 weapon setups, I dont even use the 6th pallete slot because ever since I hit lvl 40 and up, I have never once ran out of PP mid-mission.

The trick is to know what weapons to use when. This way by the end of an A rank Dimagolus stage, you are at just about 100pp on every weapon.

Use shotguns on groups of small to mid-size enemies.
Use mechguns on groups of small enemies or individual mid-size enemies.
Use Dual handguns on groups of mid-size enemies (wasting there insane SE chances on small enemies isnt a good idea)
Use Handgun/saber in tight, claustrophobic areas and on mid-size enemies.
Use the rifle (and this wil be MUCH more beneficial once expert classes roll about and we get our lv. 21+ bullets) on big enemies, and flying enemies. Even though flying enemies die relatively quickly, they are a huge pain in the ass for the rest of the party, so destroying them takes top priority.

Most of you rangers know this, but im putting it out there for the lower level rangers that are just learning the ropes.

[Akaimizu]

Another major thing I also tend to do, with my sets of guns is always have the bullets for the mission. It doesn't help a whole ton, but it definitely helps. Not to mention, it helps you build bullets up. I often set the guns for the combination of bullets for which to do the most elemental damage on the monsters.

I've been paying a lot more attention to the element a monster is, these days. So if I go to Neudiaz, you may often see me (as a ranger) with guns with both Burn and Freeze on them. The worms, which are fire attuned, I actually like both for. They are fire attuned so freeze hurts them more and also they're the easiest to take out when frozen. On the other hand, if they resist freezing a lot, the fire works well to keep damaging them after they go underground.

I've also taken to warming up Earth shots nowadays as Silence seems to last a decent amount of time, and I'm seeing more use in an ability to keep enemies from using techniques, as I get higher.
Not sure if you want to start off raising earth, but I'm starting to think it's a good idea as you approach level 30.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-05 07:49 ]</font>

[Tra]

http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/2392/psu20061108092524000oq0.jpg

this was a month ago

[ChrisKo]

Should have done the 6* http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif lol.

[panzer_unit]

On 2006-12-05 07:48, Akaimizu wrote:
Another major thing I also tend to do, with my sets of guns is always have the bullets for the mission. It doesn't help a whole ton, but it definitely helps.

I do this too, especially after finding out that some bullet types really jump for elemental affinity at lv11 (handguns from 5% to 13% e.g.) ... using a properly-aligned ammo type makes quite a difference for damage, especially on mechs and shotguns where the most of what ATP you do have gets eaten up by defense levels.

For the weapon I'm using as primary damage (often shotgun) I tend to have two identical models in my palette with the most common elemental weaknesses for the area I'm in. Swapping between the two weapons takes no time even on a PS2 the weapon doesn't even go away, you just change color on your photon and done.

[SolRiver]

On 2006-12-05 07:25, panzer_unit wrote:

SUV fills based on # of hits (both dealt and taken) rather than damage done/taken. ProTrancer's best options there seems to be Shotgun or Spear... maybe good old Handgun + Saber depending on what you're trying to kill.


So you are saying if mechgun don't miss, it would fill SUV like mad? (btw, does tech fill SUV at all?)



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SolRiver on 2006-12-05 11:13 ]</font>

[KirinDave]

It seems like Rifles are really tooled for Fortegunners because of their PP-cost reduction. Fortegunners, if what I've read is true, only consume .80 the PP of a regular shot, and get 1.25 regen rate on recharging. A .80 PP consumption rate means that your existing regen is better in relation to your consumption, and then that rate is boosted.

Seems like Guntechers are subtly designed to be less effective in the long run with heavy ranged weapons. They can still use them in a short-term fashion (boss fights), but in a level run they're going to be whipping out weapons that are better at SE's because that's the role they perform best.

So in that case, Remedy's analysis is correct for Guntechers. Someone who goes the Fortegunner route will find their PP consumption for a given pool to be dramatically less.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KirinDave on 2006-12-05 11:18 ]</font>

[Akaimizu]

It does make sense. Technically Fortegunners really should be the better at nearly all gun weapons. The Guntechers are supposed to take up the slack with techniques. Still, I believe that Guntechers don't really see their true potential until Buffs and Debuffs come out. Even though minor attack and light spells aren't bad, per se. The ability to run into a group and lower defenses and the such, would be a huge boon to the effectiveness of their lowered gun potential. So I'm not sure if going for high PP is really all that required for the Guntecher if they also use a wand or two to take a lot of PP use out of their guns.

Of course, a lot of this is speculation between going solo and going in groups. A case where these statistics are seen in quite a different light.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-05 11:20 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2006-12-05 11:12, SolRiver wrote:
So you are saying if mechgun don't miss, it would fill SUV like mad? (btw, does tech fill SUV at all?)

Yeah. Mechgun and dagger is a Cast ranger's best friend for building charge.

[Carbinne]

I still wonder if the piddly jumps in mechgun stats will make any real measurable difference between toting around a pair of Repeaters over some fancy A rank gear.

Also I wonder about Wartechers. If the weapon affinities are correct then they can use a good number of melee weapons, heal/support with wands and range with a bow if needed. Considering the sick stats on a ground Alteric -- god maybe I should have picked that one +5 up for 80 k. Crappy PA caps? Who cares when you can do it all?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Carbinne on 2006-12-05 11:33 ]</font>

[Zerrius]

On 2006-12-05 07:42, Niered wrote:
This theory is not entirely true. As a level 50 ranger, I carry 1 yohmei rifle grinded to +3. A common misconception in rangers is that you need multiples of weapons like rifles. This is only true if you are in desperate need of leveling PA's, otherwise, there is another solution. Carry in your action pallete one of every type of weapon/combination. I carry a saber/handgun, dual handgun, rifle, mechgun/dagger, and shotgun at all times. This is only 5 weapon setups, I dont even use the 6th pallete slot because ever since I hit lvl 40 and up, I have never once ran out of PP mid-mission.

The trick is to know what weapons to use when. This way by the end of an A rank Dimagolus stage, you are at just about 100pp on every weapon.

Use shotguns on groups of small to mid-size enemies.
Use mechguns on groups of small enemies or individual mid-size enemies.
Use Dual handguns on groups of mid-size enemies (wasting there insane SE chances on small enemies isnt a good idea)
Use Handgun/saber in tight, claustrophobic areas and on mid-size enemies.
Use the rifle (and this wil be MUCH more beneficial once expert classes roll about and we get our lv. 21+ bullets) on big enemies, and flying enemies. Even though flying enemies die relatively quickly, they are a huge pain in the ass for the rest of the party, so destroying them takes top priority.



From an effectiveness standpoint, I don't see a good reason why pure Rangers (Guntechers and wannabe guntechers excluded) should even bother with Mechguns/Handguns. If you are using them to apply status effects, then dualies would do the job and do more damage. If you are using them in a defensive fasion, I think the mobility that dualies gives or the flinching effect that rifles cause will be better. It takes mobs quite awhile to even get to you if you are causing them to flinch twice a second.

About the only reason I see for a Ranger to have a handgun out is to use the saber pa to flip big mobs over. In that case the saber is being used, not the handgun.

One handed guns shouldn't be used by people who are serious about dealing ranged damage.

[SailorDaravon]

On 2006-12-04 16:12, Zerrius wrote:
I find it hard to justify using Yohmei because it has a bigger pp pool. If you find pp to be a concern, its easy enough just to get another rifle. Seems like the only reason people use Yohmei is to save money. They want the extra pp because they don't want to buy another rifle. They need the extra regen because they don't want to buy another rifle or pay as much to recharge.

I feel that Yohmei is more suited for those that carry around 1, maybe 2 rifles, like a guntecher. But for serious rifle using Rangers and Gunners who haul around 4 or more rifles, GRM is the way to go.

Also keep in mind when comparing the ATP and ATA differences between Yohmei and GRM, that since we are always using a bullet, we only get 70% of the ATA difference, but we get 130% of the ATP difference (assuming lvl 20 bullet).



Exactly right. The vast majority of the people in this thread are spot on. At least for fortegunners.

Comparing a 6*+10 to anything is a bit unfair, since most of us seem to have horrible luck grinding. At this point I honest to god refuse to grind. When I did my comparisons (which I'll have to dig up, since it seems to be coming up a lot), you'd have to grind to +10 or close to on almost all 6*'s to compare to the 7* equivalents for most ranger weapons. Do you want to spend 90k for the 7* and be done with it? OR do you feel like spending 35k for a 6* and pray to god you can actually grind successfully to +8/9/10 just to give yourself some more PP which is never an issue for a good ranger since you should have a full palette of guns plus a couple extras at the least.

I mean yes, in bizarro world where we can all grind to +10, yes you're usually better off in many cases sticking with 6* ranger weapons, but in reality most of us are willing to spend the 90k to get reliable results than spending 35k and the grinders, for something that will more than likely break however many times to get to that +8/9/10.

And this is TOTALLY a moot point since if you're willing to spend the money and take the chance with the 6*'s and grinding, why not just buy the 8* weapon boards and give a go at synthing those? You'll probably have better odds of success, and 8*'s are going to be even better than 7*s: it's unlikely that any 6* +10 is going to beat an 8* starting stats, or at least to any degree that matters.

Also Fortegunners regen PP faster and have lower PP costs, making PP less of an issue. If you're running out of PP and weapons so bad that you need to stick with a high grinded 6* just for a couple hundred more PP, you're doing something else wrong.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SailorDaravon on 2006-12-05 20:19 ]</font>

[SailorDaravon]

double post wtf >_>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SailorDaravon on 2006-12-06 05:12 ]</font>

[FenixStryk]

I'll probably go A-rank just for ease of attainment. Getting a 6* rifle is one thing, but grinding it to +10? Hah.

[AngelLight]

I believe in going the route of a varied weapon swap patlete as was mentioned before. Partly, however, this is cause I'll be doing both GT and fG.

In general, it's prolly better off going for a one time cost and make one % roll (or however many the board will have) as opposed to making one % roll on creation and then 10 more different % rolls of increasing difficulty to reach the same or at least comparable goal.

The only real reason I see to grinding high is to have a weapon that you can later move on to an alt who will have to do the same basic job as the original character did and therefore have an easier time with it the 2nd (or whatever many times it will be for the player) go at the same profession but the new character.

For me, I'll be moving on to A rank gear for each adv. job I do. I'll take a static cost increase vs. a potentially ballooning cost curve any day of the week. ^_^

[Akaimizu]

I kind of agree. After the painful aspect of seeing weapon breaks. (Fortunately, not too painful, this time) I get super antsy with any upgrades past 3. Not sure my nerves could take going up to 10. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Sorry folks, but Tynselle had to *force* the People Resources department to come up with a replacement Grinder Station attendant, in Parum. I'm sure you guys wont notice the difference. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-06 08:28 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

High-level grinding is what you do with weapons that are outdated or redundant, IMO. Maybe you'll get the equivalent of something a couple ranks better and be able to continue using them for a while.

[nefarious]

I take the highest damage rifle
Grind it.
Rinse.
Repeat.

And I just carry like 6 rifles on me.


Screw PP capacity.

It's one of the few things you can get around easilly, without taking a hit to your attack power.

[Turambar]

From a SE standpoint, sure, PP capacity will play a role. However, from a Fortegunner standpoint who's focus, as you can tell from its weapon availability, is on ranged damage and not SE, the ATP and ATA becomes a much bigger issue. And the idea of grinding a B rank up to a +10 is, as far as I'm concerned, irrelevent. Sure they exist. However only about one out of a thousand will have one in their action pallette.

[Pure-chan]

On 2006-12-04 12:47, Remedy wrote:
You can't stack Burn and Infection (and Poison), though, Pure-chan. The more powerful one takes precedence. Infection > Burn > Poison

Otherwise, a Ranger could single-handedly take out 60% of a mob's HP. That would be just a bit nuts. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif



^ But... I find 'just a bit nuts' to my liking. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/cat.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Pure-chan on 2006-12-06 12:53 ]</font>