PDA

View Full Version : wartecher/guntecher ... no shifta/deband?



lokijam
Dec 7, 2006, 11:01 PM
im dying to play guntecher, since the ramarl was my fav. job in pso, but i feel like these two jobs are gimped without shifta/deband. And looking at the update content, were not getting those techs tommorow. Now i could be wrong, so pleas dont flame if so. So under the assumption were not getting those techs, whats the real advantage to these jobs right now. I mean ya resta/reverser will be nice, but how much actually nuking are you going to be doing. And i also feel like the dropped ATP stats for these two characters are obviously low to compensate for lvl 20/10 shifta/deband. what the heck's the holdup with Shifta/Deband!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DonRoyale
Dec 7, 2006, 11:04 PM
Meh, S/D is overrated. You don't need it to be good at this game. Sure, it helps, but...

We don't have it YET, doesn't mean we won't get it.

MXdude
Dec 7, 2006, 11:05 PM
Ack, I didnt even think of that...hmm oh well ill still become GunTecher http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Tetsuro
Dec 7, 2006, 11:05 PM
I agree, it seems like that job was meant for shifta and deband, but from everything that I have heard, we will not be getting them tomorrow.

Kent
Dec 7, 2006, 11:51 PM
While Guntecher's usefulness with current techniques other than Resta/Reverser may be questionable, Wartecher has considerably higher TP, and a higher Technique cap - they'll be able to make better use of attack techniques... But as it stands, Guntecher may not be able to amount to a whole lot more than a Ranger that can heal some, and kinda use attack techniques...

TheStoicOne
Dec 8, 2006, 12:16 AM
good thats all I need!!

Shoegaze
Dec 13, 2006, 11:38 PM
Yup... as a Guntecher without buffs/debuffs, I can honestly state that Kent is bang on - Guntecher thus far is a Ranger (gimped slightly) that can heal. REally hope they release those spells sooner than later, because I'm ready to retire all the attack spells save a few (Diga/Radiga and Zonde/Razonde for robots) for something that actually has some benefit.

mogshaz
Dec 13, 2006, 11:42 PM
Yeah, being a Guntecher and not having Buffs is pretty weak, BUT I would still prefer to be a gimped ranger that can use Resta and bullets to lvl 30 than going back. On top of that collecting mission points in expert classes takes time so its better to get in earlier.

Laranas
Dec 13, 2006, 11:52 PM
Wartechers are just weak Hunters without Shifta, really. sure they can be good without it, but they'd have to pour in tons more money to get the same damage as another class. Without S/D Wartechers are pretty much meat shields, and tanking isn't worth much in PSU.

Kent
Dec 13, 2006, 11:54 PM
On 2006-12-13 20:52, Laranas wrote:
Wartechers are just weak Hunters without Shifta, really. sure they can be good without it, but they'd have to pour in tons more money to get the same damage as another class. Without S/D Wartechers are pretty much meat shields, and tanking isn't worth much in PSU.



Assuming you completely ignore everything Wartecher gets from being part Force, then yes, this is true.

... :/

Laranas
Dec 14, 2006, 12:00 AM
On 2006-12-13 20:54, Kent wrote:

On 2006-12-13 20:52, Laranas wrote:
Wartechers are just weak Hunters without Shifta, really. sure they can be good without it, but they'd have to pour in tons more money to get the same damage as another class. Without S/D Wartechers are pretty much meat shields, and tanking isn't worth much in PSU.



Assuming you completely ignore everything Wartecher gets from being part Force, then yes, this is true.

... :/



75% of what you get from Force is useless because your TP essentially gets cut in half. Sure, you can continue using Canes (if you preferred them over Rods) and do less damage than a GH 450 and resta for about the same as a Beast FO.... or you can buy dimates and choose a class that can actually utilize its potential.

I was really, really psyched for Wartecher, since I played a FOmar for nearly 17,000 hours in PSO. It sounded right up my alley, and using the techs in JP/Story/Extra mode gave me some ideas. But stat/weapon wise they're not meant to be Forces in the least. The lack of using techs whenever you want also drains the class a bit. Your wands will be for buffs and resta, since everything else is a waste of PP. Unfortunately this will lose its effect when all the Fortechers you group with buff you anyway

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Laranas on 2006-12-13 21:03 ]</font>

Kent
Dec 14, 2006, 12:03 AM
Resta and Reverser are far from useless.

I do, however, use my attack techniques still. There are enemies that are still resistant to physical attacks, believe it or not, and the point of being a Wartecher in the first place, is being able to dole out damage in whatever form best suits the situation, be it with melee weapons, guns/cards/bows, or techniques. To ignore this half of your class, is to waste potential.

Laranas
Dec 14, 2006, 12:15 AM
On 2006-12-13 21:03, Kent wrote:
Resta and Reverser are far from useless.

I do, however, use my attack techniques still. There are enemies that are still resistant to physical attacks, believe it or not, and the point of being a Wartecher in the first place, is being able to dole out damage in whatever form best suits the situation, be it with melee weapons, guns/cards/bows, or techniques. To ignore this half of your class, is to waste potential.



1) Reverser is never useless, it doesn't rely on TP, hence it wasn't mentioned. Chances are though that the Forces/Fortechers have it readily availible.

2) Resta however becomes troublesome. I'd prefer my heal to get the job done when it costs 40 PP a pop, but maybe that's just me. Resta killed my rods when I was a Force.

3) You do have a point with the jack-of-all-trades thing. But that's all it is right now, a jack. With buffs (main arguement of the thread) Wartechers won't get overshadowed everywhere. Sure you can handle every situation, but most classes can handle at most on their own and do a good job at it. With the exception of BUGGES I can't remember anything thats stopped a group of hunters dead in their tracks. Some monsters have high def, but they still bash through them pretty easily with the right element.

I'm not ignoring half of the class (I personally think it's less, espeically with lack of Rods), I'm just saying it's not much to rely on.

Gojin
Dec 14, 2006, 12:22 AM
On 2006-12-13 20:52, Laranas wrote:
Wartechers are just weak Hunters without Shifta, really. sure they can be good without it, but they'd have to pour in tons more money to get the same damage as another class. Without S/D Wartechers are pretty much meat shields, and tanking isn't worth much in PSU.



if you dont like wartechers then just stfu and dont play them, some people actually play the game for you know fun instead of "Oh look at me I can twink myself out to do the most damage lollicopter" I've been playing a newman wartecher and I love it so far newmans tp bonus helps, also way more hp than foretecher so you dont get one hitted. I see wartecher kind of like Redmage from FF it can pretty much do everything but not master it example get lvl 30 of anything but they should have evened it out and gave them lvl 20 bullets too, oh well.

Laranas
Dec 14, 2006, 12:38 AM
On 2006-12-13 21:22, Gojin wrote:

On 2006-12-13 20:52, Laranas wrote:
Wartechers are just weak Hunters without Shifta, really. sure they can be good without it, but they'd have to pour in tons more money to get the same damage as another class. Without S/D Wartechers are pretty much meat shields, and tanking isn't worth much in PSU.



if you dont like wartechers then just stfu and dont play them, some people actually play the game for you know fun instead of "Oh look at me I can twink myself out to do the most damage lollicopter" I've been playing a newman wartecher and I love it so far newmans tp bonus helps, also way more hp than foretecher so you dont get one hitted. I see wartecher kind of like Redmage from FF it can pretty much do everything but not master it example get lvl 30 of anything but they should have evened it out and gave them lvl 20 bullets too, oh well.

And for some people, feeling like your helping the party is considered "fun". As I said before, I played FOmar for tons of hours. There's a class I consider to be like redmage. Wartecher sounded the same in theory, so I was sure I was going to have a good time. I maxed out the basic classes, got top-of-the-line weapons, turned wartecher as soon as I could. 75% trough Type Lv1 I realized I was having little fun at all, my dmg paled in comparison to everyone elses with 50% weapons and +6 Cane

In a group of other classes it felt completely useless, and I blame it mostly on the techs availible.. but stat distribution as well. It's a mix of Hunter and Force but only gets 100% ATP and 94% TP at Lv10? Though the same can be said for any hybrid, it doesn't seem to hurt them as badly.

DoubleJG
Dec 14, 2006, 12:48 AM
Wartecher IS fun, end of story before this turns into a flame war. They make decent healers when a Fortetecher is not present, their attack spells make for decent damage against enemies with high physical resistance, and they get S rank daggers (don't like em? I do). The point of a Guntecher is purely support, while Wartecher has a bit less of support in them yet the ability to solo decently. It truly is a fun job.

So back on top, are there any other techs besides s/d that WT and GT don't get?

Cause_I_Own_U
Dec 14, 2006, 12:51 AM
Wartechers are by far the best solo class, my dual daggers will out damage the crap out of any fortetecher and ill be able to have two NPC's that do alot of damage and i can heal them

Btw Laranas what is your race?

Laranas
Dec 14, 2006, 12:52 AM
It's not that they don't get them, it's that they aren't released yet. I plan to go back to Wartecher once they are, but I've never been in a group without 1 or 2 Fortechers.


EDIT: I'm Human, and i dont think using my daggers would improve my damage if i switched from Fortecher. And while they do get S-rank Daggers, I don't think it's a good arguement when they aren't released yet. It's not as if you're tied down to one class... it hasn't been a week yet and i'm approaching fT 5 and WT 2.

My arguement isnt that Wartechers suck completely. My arguement is that they're at a disadvantage with the current tech selection.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Laranas on 2006-12-13 21:57 ]</font>

Gojin
Dec 14, 2006, 12:52 AM
Oh so what you're saying is that you suck and not wartecher? oh ok carry on then. Like I said if you dont like it stop dissin it and move on to fortecher or fortefighter. Im staying Wartecher though.

Genobee
Dec 14, 2006, 12:54 AM
WarTechs will be crazy when the Elemental Sheilds and the buffs come out.

Laranas
Dec 14, 2006, 01:00 AM
On 2006-12-13 21:52, Gojin wrote:
Oh so what you're saying is that you suck and not wartecher? oh ok carry on then. Like I said if you dont like it stop dissin it and move on to fortecher or fortefighter. Im staying Wartecher though.

I'm glad everyone else is better at reading between the lines, at least they respond with valid points. If accepting someone elses opinion is that hard, maybe a discussion board isn't the right place for you. I, however, like to discuss



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Laranas on 2006-12-13 22:02 ]</font>

Kimil
Dec 14, 2006, 01:04 AM
I'm going Wartecker with my Beast Chiyoko...

Benifits oposed to going Fortefighter:

Self Resta/Reverser
I don't need to worry about dieing, Plus I hate relying on a healer (plus I can double as a front line healer so the Newman Forteckers wont die trying to heal the hunters)

( Later ) Self S/D

Megistral (ultimate stat bost)
this is made for the Wartecker
Also That Diga Support teck against melee and that Light one against projectiles

ATP still above average (expecially in the latter class levels)

HP is still great and DP too

Evade is much higher then a Fortefighter

Nano blast helps a good amount

I loves Daggers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
-Plus Arank Spears and Claws


Cons;
Atp is cut down about 20-15%
No 30lv PAs at all
Not so good at Attack Tecks (Imma beast)
Only S rank is daggers

Laranas
Dec 14, 2006, 01:09 AM
Judging off that analyst and a few other posts Wartechers are good for Beasts and Newmans who are offset towards ATP/TP already.. but for avg humans it just makes your stats even more avg... which some see as a good thing and others (like me) see it as more of a negative point in a system where zerging the enemy is the modus operandi

But then again, the stuff included in ( Later ) was left out of my arguement because the thread was talking about ( Now )

Gojin
Dec 14, 2006, 01:15 AM
On 2006-12-13 22:00, Laranas wrote:

On 2006-12-13 21:52, Gojin wrote:
Oh so what you're saying is that you suck and not wartecher? oh ok carry on then. Like I said if you dont like it stop dissin it and move on to fortecher or fortefighter. Im staying Wartecher though.

I'm glad everyone else is better at reading between the lines, at least they respond with valid points. If accepting someone elses opinion is that hard, maybe a discussion board isn't the right place for you. I, however, like to discuss



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Laranas on 2006-12-13 22:02 ]</font>


you're not discussin though you're bitchin about how wartecher isnt what you want it to be.

juno-6
Dec 14, 2006, 01:20 AM
ima human guntecher w/ one wand that has resta on it and thats it. i went guntecher for the guns, the fact that i can heal m'self or buff/debuff was an afterthought. i dont really care that those techs aren't out yet cuz' really rite now were all just lvling our bullets for the s ranks and getting our class rank up to where they should be.

as for usefulness. guns like S twin handguns and S mechguns are gonna' provide a lotta' status effects coupled with the support techs....this'll help parties make things easier and faster.

JPGen
Dec 14, 2006, 01:05 PM
On 2006-12-13 21:00, Laranas wrote:

On 2006-12-13 20:54, Kent wrote:

On 2006-12-13 20:52, Laranas wrote:
Wartechers are just weak Hunters without Shifta, really. sure they can be good without it, but they'd have to pour in tons more money to get the same damage as another class. Without S/D Wartechers are pretty much meat shields, and tanking isn't worth much in PSU.



Assuming you completely ignore everything Wartecher gets from being part Force, then yes, this is true.

... :/



75% of what you get from Force is useless because your TP essentially gets cut in half. Sure, you can continue using Canes (if you preferred them over Rods) and do less damage than a GH 450 and resta for about the same as a Beast FO.... or you can buy dimates and choose a class that can actually utilize its potential.

I was really, really psyched for Wartecher, since I played a FOmar for nearly 17,000 hours in PSO. It sounded right up my alley, and using the techs in JP/Story/Extra mode gave me some ideas. But stat/weapon wise they're not meant to be Forces in the least. The lack of using techs whenever you want also drains the class a bit. Your wands will be for buffs and resta, since everything else is a waste of PP. Unfortunately this will lose its effect when all the Fortechers you group with buff you anyway

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Laranas on 2006-12-13 21:03 ]</font>


Good god almighty! Thats 2 years play time...

Anyways about guntechers. People say they are gimped without shifta and deband.. but I have a question for you, are you using bows? My cast guntecher is lvl 43 lvl 1 job using a babari +3 (rank 5 bow) and lvl 14 bullets. When I hit an enemy with the correct elemental weakness I hit for 260ish a shot.. Thats not exactly gimp. I can only imagine how itll be with lvl 30 bullets and that bow that gives 550 atp as opposed to 300 atp.

Akaimizu
Dec 14, 2006, 01:23 PM
That's pretty good. I'm currently in the early 30s, but I haven't grabbed a bow in there, yet. Maybe I should try it out instead of the rifle, for a bit and see if I can see the difference. I do plan on trying out Crossbows.

By the way, what level of Guntecher are you?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-14 10:24 ]</font>

JPGen
Dec 14, 2006, 01:31 PM
lvl 1 guntecher, char lvl 43

Gazette
Dec 14, 2006, 01:31 PM
Personally, I'm having a blast being a War.
If you really feel you're hurting right now without buffs, you can always carry around a megistaride or something.

It really isn't necessary, but whatever.

Akaimizu
Dec 14, 2006, 01:48 PM
Cool. In general, the odd single-handed gun and whatever longrange powerhouse doesn't intrude at all on my Twin Gunnies, nor my unquenchable thirst for the gunslinger goodness they provide. So I'm free to play around with what hits hardest, with those.

JPGen
Dec 14, 2006, 01:54 PM
Dont forget, it's great on bosses. For example while fighting the dragon you will do the same dmg no matter where you hit him, except the tail. Like, if you hit his head you do the same dmg to his legs. Also, it can do status effects on the bigger enemies, like on A rank sleeping warrior runs, if I hit that big guy that charges at you with fire, each DoT tick hits for about 300. Not to mention you can freeze, paralyze, etc... and yes, that includes the hildebear things on the moatoob missions (guys that jump around).

Deja
Dec 14, 2006, 03:06 PM
I don't care about gimped resta and crappy boosts, my Guntecher is good for a couple things:

1. For when I'm playing with one or two other Hunter classes, I can heal and buff them during "breaks" in combat, while they rely on mates during combat.

2. Have you seen the 10-12* dual guns? Wow, and only my fatass Newman Guntecher can handle those.

3. Thousands of future buffs will help my hunters in need, and lvl 30 bullets will keep even minibosses on the ropes.

NOTHING is wrong with Guntecher. People just look too much into the "stat" department, and leave out the rest.

Natrokos
Dec 14, 2006, 03:37 PM
Guntecher is a great class imo. The ability to use S dual handgunds and play a true support role...Debuffs will come out (lower enemy atp/dfp and such) aswell as buffs and I think guntecher will get alot out of it.

Wartecher is debatable...I play a wartecher and it has alot of ups and down.....I hit decently with magic (500 with foie not the best but not horrible) and my melee attack is about 10x better then when I was a force....My 3 biggest problems are
1. PP management- You essentially have 33% of the tp that a fortecher has (wands have around half of rods AND you will have to cast more often to kill the same enemy.) this leads to more wands...
2. No level 30 skill-This is a bigger deal to me then some people...I just think it's unfair that every other class can use a 30 skill
3. No S rank wands-ATM this isn't a big problem....But down the line it will be harder and harder to do enough tech damage and the lack of S rank tech weaponry is a bit of a downer...

That aside I love wartecher...It is a fun class to play and stat wise (besides tp) I love them. If you don't like wartecher I don't blame you...But saying they are useless is a bit much...I can walk into the middle of a fray and cast resta without worrying about being one shotted....I can use a knockdown attack and then start casting on the enemy until he gets back up....I can use better armour then a fortecherand if I do run out of tp I can usually get by with sabers...I still outdamage 80% of rangers and about 50% of hunters with my magic and use my pa's to knockdown enemies for the rest of the party to get some hits in. Can a wartecher take the place of a fortefighter or a fortecher? Certainly not...But if you are lacking in one of those two areas they can play the role well enough.

Telling naysayers to stfu is stupid...Since we all have the right to our own opinion^^ But at the same time you naysayers have to realize that just because the class doesn't meet your expectations does not mean it can't be utilized....