7*-8* (A-rank) weapons superior to grinded 6* (B-rank) weapo

[-Dainslef-]

So, I've seen a lot of comments about B-rank, 6* weapons being superior to A-rank, 8* weapons. The reason makes sense: There are no A-rank grinders. Fair enough. But looking at the numbers:

Ascalon (6* GRM Sword): 289 PP, 511 ATP, 149 ATA
Ascalon (4) (6* GRM Sword): 319 PP, 548 ATP, 149 ATA
This is probably as high as anyone will reasonably grind a 6* weapon.

Hanzo (7* GRM Sword): 317 PP, 598 ATP, 169 ATA
Jigiri (8* GRM Sword): 327 PP, 675 ATP, 189 ATA

The A rank weapons seem absolutely, 100% better. Of course, they are also much more expensive. The chance of success reduction is largely offset by the risk of grinding.

People also like to point out that A rank weapons cost more to charge, but by my experience, it seems non-existant/negligible.

Any thoughts?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Dainslef- on 2006-12-10 16:28 ]</font>

[BloodDragoon]

To me it seems charge cost is dependant on the total amount of PP that needs to be recharged and nothing more. Therefore more PP = cost more to charge and higher rank weapons have more base PP.

[Randomness]

Well, the more to charge would be negligable for hunter weapons, which do not carry massive sums of PP.

On the other hand, at just 4*, rods and rifles already have over 1000 PP, and so the cost is MUCH higher.

You also need to realize that for some people, a little extra damage per attack isn't going to do much. A ranger is more for status than damage, and several of thier useful weapons have very little power to begin with. A newman force, before any weapons are added, has easily 700 TP, and the increase in power going up to 7* is maybe 50-60 TP if both weapons are unground. That equates to maybe 10 more damage per hit for Diga.

[Cav]

people who advocate 6*s better than 7 or 8* grind them to 10, which in the end will end up equaling the amount spent on an 8* or more unless you are a very, very lucky bastard in which case I hate you. After breaking 12 5* swords trying to grind one to 10 (using +8s above 5 grinds) and only getting one to 8, I am quite impartial to grinding above 5 now.

[VelosofLight]

Also, A-Rank weapons have the looks of awesome sextasticness. I want an A-Rank Rifle and Shotgun..

[Umberger]

I'd rather use an A rank weapon...I don't even like risking grinding a 6* B past 2.

It's annoying enough to just find Grinder Base Bs, let alone spend 35k on the weapon itself. I'd much rather just stay with an A rank weapon...I doubt I'll even bother grinding them.

[ljkkjlcm9]

1 pp cost for a hunter is more than 1 pp cost for a ranger and a force, by saying that a ranger weapon costs more because it has more PP is incorrect. 1000 pp for a ranger is about equal to 300 pp for a hunter to recharge, at least from my experience.

Personally, I'll stick with my 5 star weapons and buy the A ranks of those that only have A ranks, then upgrade my 5 stars later

THE JACKEL

[Nani-chan]

Well the other thing is.. 54% for a 8* with a 100 ranged PM. I was 1/2 on my Evil twins, since my first one broke. That means in total I spent 110k for the board; 12 (6x2) vestaline, 12 (6x2) chicotites, 12 (6x2) Par ebons and 20 (10x2) Im Photons for my 1 8* weapon. I shouldn't complain though, have a weapon with allot more ata than my others.

I don't know about everyone else but I think Bs are just fine. It's not like everyone is doing S missions only yet.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2006-12-10 17:22 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

B rank have higher chances of getting good %s.

Also, it depends on the weapon. Some grind better than others. Kubaras grind high.

Another factor is the fact that Tenora make weapons with the highest ATP and ATA, but do not make a few weapons past B rank.

Compare:

Current best A rank twin handguns=8* Evil Twins (GRM). ATP of 200. ATA of 132.
Second best A rank twin handguns=7* Bullet Master (GRM). ATP of 177. ATA of 118.
Best B rank twin handguns=6* Arb Rega (Tenora). ATP of 189. ATA of 130. ATP succeeds Evil Twins at grind 7. With NO grinds, they are better than Bullet Master, and barely any worse than Evil Twins.

Now, don't cry about PP either, because my set of 2 Arb Regas for considerably lower than the cost of ONE Bullet Master makes Bullet Master seem a BIT redundant.

Then you have wands, another area where B ranks shine.

Take the best 6* wand - W'gacrosa (Tenora). TP of 435.
Then the 7* Yohmei - Cometara. TP of 443.
Then the 8* Yohmei - Lidra. TP of 500.

AT GRIND TWO, W'gacrosa succeeds the TP of Cometara (TP becomes 451).
AT GRIND SEVEN, W'gacrosa succeeds the TP of Lidra (TP becomes 505).

Now, A rank wands are the best wands Wartecher and guntecher will EVER be able to equip.
And A rank twin handguns, the best handguns Fighgunner and Fortegunner will EVER be able to equip.

Consider the cost and risk of A rank grinding when we DO get it. IMO in many respects A ranks are not worth it. They are often used purely to show off, pure and simple. If you equip nothing but A ranks, you are probably:

A. A showoff.
B. A bad player.

The other bonus of Bs is cheap high %s. Noobs (you are NOOBS, all of you doing this) sell high % B ranks low. FYI, that % bonus is on your TOTAL ATP. So a player with 400 ATP, SHIT (in your opinion) 50% 4* daggers with 120 ATP is going to do more damage than a player with 400 ATP, and all singing, all dancing 10% A rank daggers with 187 ATP.

If you go round the shops buying up lots of 50% B ranks, you are getting more bang for your buck and more power than a player who's going for A rank synths. Not unless you are a hacker with infinite money, of course.

I use mostly grinded and or high % B ranks. A few A ranks too that are not available as B. For all other weapons, I'm biding my time for S ranks. I'll have more money to afford them too than everyone who's blowing all their cash on A ranks.

[ljkkjlcm9]

doesn't A rank go up to 9 stars, just 9 stars aren't available yet....

THE JACKEL

[-Shimarisu-]

I just want to say too, that I have access to all the stats for currently available weapons. Weighing it up B ranks are better overall if you go with copious amounts of Tenoras. People who weep over PP are amusing to me, so don't wave PP issues in my face, I won't hear it.

So, want to know if the stats of the A ranker you're aiming for are worth it compared to th best B rank? Ask me here.

As a rule of thumb, if the A rank you are aiming for is a 7*, the answer is no.
If it is an 8 star, the answer is "more often than not, it is not worth it."

9*s are not available yet so point is moot.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-10 17:31 ]</font>

[FenixStryk]

IMHO, you're better off with A weapons since you don't have to risk them on grinds. Getting a B-rank higher than +4 is, simply put, risky as hell, and they don't become better than A-ranks until you get them above +4. Oh, the irony!

[-Shimarisu-]

Grinding is not that risky, getting them to +4 with decent grinders will lose you 1/3rd, to 7 will lose you 3/4s, on average. Just my findings. If the weapons were cheap to begin with it's no great loss. The mats for B rank weapons drop like candy now.

You're going to have to risk grinds on A ranks when A rank grinders are out, so saying "they are better because I don't have to grind them" is daft. By that point though, S ranks will be more readily available. Then youre talking major risk with synthing, too. Plus A ranks will be far riskier to grind, I rreally doubt many will do it. The cost f getting one high will be so much people will simply decide to spend that time and money hunting equivalent S ranks.

B ranks are better right now, overall.

Thanks for all the cheap 50% weapons, US community.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-10 17:47 ]</font>

[BloodDragoon]

I'm aiming for specific A ranks just because I like the way the weapon looks like the Hanzo for example. >.>

But then I've had a trend of choosing my equipment in alot of games simply off of physica appearance. Some examples being:

In FFXI I never bothered getting an Optic Hat because I thought it looked stupid and ugly on characters... >.>

In WoW after getting the requirements out of the way my hunter would only wear chainmail type armor just for the appearance. Even if that piece of leather armor had a purple name and better relevant hunter stats...

Diablo II I would only wear armors or use weapons that were specific colors to fit the "themes" I'd given to the characters I made.

Meh maybe I'm just wierd http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ljkkjlcm9]

I don't sell 50% weapons, nor do I have any, I have a 44% 5 star daga rippa(light), and a 44% 5 star alseva drada(dark) and those are my best percents ever. I don't plan on selling them anytime soon because they are my strongest weapons against the opposing element, by far. Let me just say that saying that anyone who disagrees with you is basically a fool, is just wrong. Everyone has their own beliefs and some people do not like grinding weapons and prefer to get the A ranks. That does not make you smarter or better than them, that just means you have more patience and choose to play the game differently. To each his own, but you are in no way more correct than anyone esle on the matter.

THE JACKEL

[Zelendria_Ru]

I had the misfortune of playing with a Fortetecher sporting a flashy Mayrod (8*) last night...because my clothing color is primarily black I can think of no better accessory for my Newman Female!

Even with a 100tech PM (which I do not have) the chance is very low to synth this item (1/3 from his board)....not to mention the insane cost of materials.

I'm currently using two +5 Hajirods...the problem is that I couldn't accurately compare our damage output due to the fact that he had severely underleveled technics. (Whereas I am starting to get level 21s).

Is there a technique damage calculator for techs including all possible variables? (like the one for PSO?)

I don't want to slap down the 110k for a board and find out later that its only 50dmg difference.

Furthermore, while I know that the norm is for forces to use canes for DPS, I have to say that the insanely SLOW rate of technic experience means that my techs won't be capped at 30 for a LONG time....this makes it far more important to have as much PP as possible for constant casting.

Anyone that doubts this haven't tried to level a technic from 20-21. >.<

I can certainly understand making a Cane type for Diga and Resta for boss fights though.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-10 17:49, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
To each his own, but you are in no way more correct than anyone esle on the matter.

THE JACKEL



Yes I am. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Cav]

On 2006-12-10 17:40, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Grinding is not that risky, getting them to +4 with decent grinders will lose you 1/3rd, to 7 will lose you 3/4s, on average. Just my findings. If the weapons were cheap to begin with it's no great loss. The mats for B rank weapons drop like candy now.

You're going to have to risk grinds on A ranks when A rank grinders are out, so saying "they are better because I don't have to grind them" is daft. By that point though, S ranks will be more readily available. Then youre talking major risk with synthing, too. Plus A ranks will be far riskier to grind, I rreally doubt many will do it. The cost f getting one high will be so much people will simply decide to spend that time and money hunting equivalent S ranks.

B ranks are better right now, overall.

Thanks for all the cheap 50% weapons, US community.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-10 17:47 ]</font>


Now grind those 50%s to 7 to match A ranks.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-10 17:52, Cav wrote:


Now grind those 50%s to 7 to match A ranks.



You show me a player with all 44%+ A ranks, they don't exist.

Mine do far more damage grinded to +2 than low % (the huge majority of) A ranks.

With a large arsenal of 44%+ B ranks, I'll do more damage overall than a player with all As. Unless they are a hacker. You know, with infinite money.

Even so, the amount of high % A ranks on the market is so low even infinite meseta would make it hard to attain that.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-10 17:56 ]</font>

[Ravennittes]

Lets get the facts straight k guys? C ranks fire/cast/swing slower than B's which fire/cast/swing slower than A's which fire/cast /swing slower than S's. Although this is a small ammount, it's worth it. Plus, 8* rods are VERY good, and, just so you know, 9* rods DO exist. It's stupid and old fashioned to keep B rank weapons if you have the chance to get 8* A rank weapons. I may not have A's yet, however, that is due to me not having money http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif.

[JC10001]

On 2006-12-10 17:49, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
I don't sell 50% weapons, nor do I have any, I have a 44% 5 star daga rippa(light), and a 44% 5 star alseva drada(dark) and those are my best percents ever. I don't plan on selling them anytime soon because they are my strongest weapons against the opposing element, by far. Let me just say that saying that anyone who disagrees with you is basically a fool, is just wrong. Everyone has their own beliefs and some people do not like grinding weapons and prefer to get the A ranks. That does not make you smarter or better than them, that just means you have more patience and choose to play the game differently. To each his own, but you are in no way more correct than anyone esle on the matter.

THE JACKEL



Quoted for truth.

[Cav]

On 2006-12-10 17:55, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2006-12-10 17:52, Cav wrote:


Now grind those 50%s to 7 to match A ranks.



You show me a player with all 44%+ A ranks, they don't exist.

Mine do far more damage grinded to +2 than low % (the huge majority of) A ranks.

With a large arsenal of 44%+ B ranks, I'll do more damage overall than a player with all As. Unless they are a hacker. You know, with infinite money.

Even so, the amount of high % A ranks on the market is so low even infinite meseta would make it hard to attain that.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-10 17:56 ]</font>


There was a post here yesterday about some guy making a 50% and 33% axe, and you make it sound like you've tested statically A ranks have a lower chance of making lower % than higher ones. Also swing speed is faster like stated above.

[-Shimarisu-]

You're all wrong, I'm right, la-la-la.

^_____________________________^

[-Shimarisu-]

Keep wasting all your money guys, I know who'll have more money to blow on the S ranks in the long term.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

[MegaBUD]

Bah... Axe and claw are A class weapon...

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-10 18:09, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Keep wasting all your money guys, I know who'll have more money to blow on the S ranks in the long term.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



I'm sticking with you.

[Cav]

Will you use Bs over S if the S has 10%? ^________^

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-10 17:50, Zelendria_Ru wrote:
I had the misfortune of playing with a Fortetecher sporting a flashy Mayrod (8*) last night...because my clothing color is primarily black I can think of no better accessory for my Newman Female!

Even with a 100tech PM (which I do not have) the chance is very low to synth this item (1/3 from his board)....not to mention the insane cost of materials.

I'm currently using two +5 Hajirods...the problem is that I couldn't accurately compare our damage output due to the fact that he had severely underleveled technics. (Whereas I am starting to get level 21s).

Is there a technique damage calculator for techs including all possible variables? (like the one for PSO?)

I don't want to slap down the 110k for a board and find out later that its only 50dmg difference.

Furthermore, while I know that the norm is for forces to use canes for DPS, I have to say that the insanely SLOW rate of technic experience means that my techs won't be capped at 30 for a LONG time....this makes it far more important to have as much PP as possible for constant casting.

Anyone that doubts this haven't tried to level a technic from 20-21. >.<

I can certainly understand making a Cane type for Diga and Resta for boss fights though.



Rods suck.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-10 18:12, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2006-12-10 17:50, Zelendria_Ru wrote:
I had the misfortune of playing with a Fortetecher sporting a flashy Mayrod (8*) last night...because my clothing color is primarily black I can think of no better accessory for my Newman Female!

Even with a 100tech PM (which I do not have) the chance is very low to synth this item (1/3 from his board)....not to mention the insane cost of materials.

I'm currently using two +5 Hajirods...the problem is that I couldn't accurately compare our damage output due to the fact that he had severely underleveled technics. (Whereas I am starting to get level 21s).

Is there a technique damage calculator for techs including all possible variables? (like the one for PSO?)

I don't want to slap down the 110k for a board and find out later that its only 50dmg difference.

Furthermore, while I know that the norm is for forces to use canes for DPS, I have to say that the insanely SLOW rate of technic experience means that my techs won't be capped at 30 for a LONG time....this makes it far more important to have as much PP as possible for constant casting.

Anyone that doubts this haven't tried to level a technic from 20-21. >.<

I can certainly understand making a Cane type for Diga and Resta for boss fights though.



Rods suck.



I'm not sticking with you for that one though D:

Tell me how you maintain efficiency with wands throughout a long mission and maybe I'll agree with your wand thing.

I'm not interested in using handguns/cards, by the way.

[Ravennittes]

We'll get our S ranked weapons when the time is right, but we like having the best and being effective in battle. Plus, we'll grind our A ranks soon, then start moving over to S ranks when they come out (12* baby http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif).

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-10 18:11, Cav wrote:
Will you use Bs over S if the S has 10%? ^________^



If it does more damage, of course.

In fact I'd probably sell an S that came out with 10% if it did less damage than a B rank.

If you would use an S with 10% over a B with 50% if the B did more damage (and on Fortefighter stats, it probably WOULD,) then you=just a show off.

[Cav]

Obviously, carrying 20 6* TW wands.

Edit: you play the game for max efficiency, good for you. Some of us have fun in other ways(S rank whoring), as long as it doesn't detract from your current party member's fun experience, let it be.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Cav on 2006-12-10 18:16 ]</font>

[Ravennittes]

You've gotta think in DPS my friend... S means it's faster than B (and better, even if you grind it 10 times). Just so you know, S ranks p0wn all.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-10 18:13, Ravennittes wrote:
We'll get our S ranked weapons when the time is right, but we like having the best and being effective in battle.


But you're not the best and most effective in battle. I am.



Plus, we'll grind our A ranks soon,


I bet you won't grind them high enough to make much of a differnce. Thanks in advance though for helpuing the meseta market if you do, because they'll have lower grind gain than B ranks AND higher % chance of breakage.



then start moving over to S ranks when they come out (12* baby http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif).


You do know how rare these are, right? The way you're talking about mass breakage of A ranks via grinders, you won't have a penny left to spend on S rank ingredients.

America wants it bigger, better, faster than anyone, funny that they miss the big picture in trying to outdo everyone, and the finer points that truly make things the best are disregarded.

[FenixStryk]

You guys are arguing over different classes.
Shimarisu is a Hunter, and since they get their damage mainly from elemental %s, yes it is cheaper to get high % B ranks.
I am a Ranger. I don't have to worry about %s, only grinds. I'd much rather synth an 8* than buy 8 to 10 6*s and try grinding each one to +10 so I can even it out.
Forces, the choice is even clearer. Need I explain this one?

[Ravennittes]

Once I get my 6 rods I'll be happy and will slowly graduate to S ranks. It's not as if I save up masses of cash to blow all at once. No, I take it slow and have fun, otherwise there's no point to the game. I'll gring them a few times (2-3) each, and I think that'll be sufficient, especially considering which class I am, and just so you know, I've gotten 5* rods to +4 using B+1's, so don't tell me what's hard and what isn't.

[-Shimarisu-]

Actually, I have two mains, the other is a Guntecher, check out that post I made comparing twin handguns.

I also grinded all his wands and I broke a lot, but from this I know grinding is worth it.

[Zelendria_Ru]

...

Assuming that I purchased 6 6* Tenora wands and ground them to +5-6...that's what, 3000pp?

Mid mission I'll have to return to city and recharge or use Photon Chargers.

I can EASILY burn through 3000PP by then...spamming RA or GI techs plus resta and reverser is not cheap...before Fortetecher I would routinely burn 6000pp in a Holy Ground or Grove of Fanatics run. (this at the cost of ~900meseta.)

Am I correctly understanding your recommendation...is what is expected of a Force/Fortetecher?

[-Shimarisu-]

That's what I did to force level 10. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Also I did more damage than you.

PP recharges are cheap. Wait, maybe they are cheap if you don't keep blowing all your money on flashy weaps, yep, that's it.

I did grove with 8, yep, 8, GRM and Tenoras wands and the worst that happened with that many is I had to recharge at the boss recharge point before doing the last room.

I don't know how much money it costs to recharge, because it is such a pittance I never read the disclaimer.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-10 18:50, -Shimarisu- wrote:
That's what I did to force level 10. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Also I did more damage than you.

PP recharges are cheap. Wait, maybe they are cheap if you don't keep blowing all your money on flashy weaps, yep, that's it.

I did grove with 8, yep, 8, GRM and Tenoras wands and the worst that happened with that many is I had to recharge at the boss recharge point before doing the last room.

I don't know how much money it costs to recharge, because it is such a pittance I never read the disclaimer.



I only need 5 rods, and that's already excessive; I don't feel like no attributing them.

So that's how you work it with wands, huh? The more the better?

[-Dainslef-]

Okay, so apparently the topic statement applies primarily to Hunter weapons. Force and Ranger weapons are more grindable, where as A rank melee weapons are, with some possible exceptions, categorically better. I'll check to see if there's exceptions.

[-Shimarisu-]

If you want to know, for your 7 or 8*, if there's 6* or less that's feasibly grindable to an equal or better degree, ask me here.

It varies, but I have all the stats.

Buit yeah if you have a 50% weapon it's fine to try synthing an A rank, but if that A rank comes out all junky in comparison then sell it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-10 19:12 ]</font>

[Zelendria_Ru]

There's still a major flaw in your strategy. I would never put myself in a situation of either being or partying with a Force that doesn't have Resta and Reverser at their fingertips.

I'm not in the mood to switch weapons every 5 seconds because someone gets shocked or slept.

Unless you are playing as one of those forces that refused to heal or remove debuffs.

I play support...about 5 minutes after I logon people start spamming me with PT invites because they know that 1 second after they get whacked or debuffed its off/healed.

While its true that you could alternate staves or scroll down or up to get to your healing wand, that's just sloppy imho.

Given a CAPABLE hybrid that actually heals I COULD see putting a damage tech and reverser onto wands...but seeing that GOOD support forces are desperately rare, I'd rather get the mission S rank for the sacrifice of some DPS.

Normally I'm the only force, so I'm used to playing this way...Yes, I'd love it if I could use elementally bound Rods/Wands...the truth is that people do stupid things and if I don't heal them the blame is on me.

[KiteWolfwood]

I am using my B grade elemental twin dagger set until I have enough money to just buy some high elemental A grades. No way am I going to risk all that money trying to not only succeed in making an A grade weapon but also getting a nice % on it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KiteWolfwood on 2006-12-10 19:44 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

Oh, I guess I am just sloppy!

Let me tell you, that as Guntecher I don't let ANYONE die in S Linar Line except to megid, and that's not my fault.

I'm a better healer than 90% of Fortetechers, and I only ever have one wand on my available palette.

[ProfessorZ]

When people say 6* weapons beat 7* and 8* weapons, they substitute kubara for the wood

[Maskim]

On 2006-12-10 18:14, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2006-12-10 18:11, Cav wrote:
Will you use Bs over S if the S has 10%? ^________^



If it does more damage, of course.

In fact I'd probably sell an S that came out with 10% if it did less damage than a B rank.

If you would use an S with 10% over a B with 50% if the B did more damage (and on Fortefighter stats, it probably WOULD,) then you=just a show off.



Ahhh, showing off. The keystone of the MMORPG, and the foundation of the online incarnations of the Phantasy Star saga. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[BloodDragoon]

Well on the other side of the arguement the person using nothing but 6* +10 grind weapons with 50% element on them would be more of a show off IMO since to me the A ranks are more practical in aquisition. (7* especially since you can buy the finished products from their respective shops.) >.>

[Cause_I_Own_U]

Grinding is becoming more and more useless as more weapons come out

yes it was easy to grind that 3 star to be on par or close to the 5 star by grinding it to 10

but good luck doing that on 6 star weapons to make it on par with 8 stars, the grinding % is much worse with higher grade weapons, and it hurts ALOT when you fail and you will fail alot more than with the lower grades

so yeah, having a non grinded 8*(or just grind it once because its easy) is much better than trying to grind up a 7* to +6 or more to be on par, not to mention the 8* will have more ATA which is equally as important as atp

[ViciousXUSMC]

Cant speak for hunter/ranger types but I can speak as a force that the B ranks are by far better than the A rank trash.

The one big diffrence between a hunter/ranger weapon thats a low rank grinded high and the equal of that weapon of a higher rank is the ATA. Well forces dont have ATA on a weapon so that whole idea is void.

All we have is TP and PP.

First point to make: Grinding isnt too hard to a reasonable level. Getting +10 is quite a task but +6 is not hard at all.

I just took my 2 6* rods up to +4 with no problems and they already meet/beet the 7* A rank. @ +9 they meet/beat the 8*

I tried to craft the 8* just to play with it and sell it and 3/3 failed on a pure 100 PM thats like 340k down the tube with that money I could have easitly +8 a few Tomoirods.

Next up is the point that the 6* uses common mats so you can find them cheaper, the A ranks so far I have had to NPC most of the mats so the cost is cheaper than you may think it is to make the 6*. Whats up next? Another cost factor!

Im sure you noticed by now your paying more for a PP recharge than you did when you were lvl 1 with you C rank stuff right? Well thats because each * means more for PP and forces use absolutly a crap load of PP so just to give you the benifit of the doubt (A rank supporters) if it did cost me 20k more to say +10 a 6 to beat the mayrod in terms of stats, over time the PP recharge cost would make up that diffence and continue to put the 6* wep ahead each and every time I use it. The cost diffrence is rather large too.

However I wouldnt push for +10 just a +6 puts it so close.

I challenge you, look at the TP diffrence of say a 4* and a 6* about 200 TP diffrence I have on my 2 weapons. cast the spell with the largest modifier (diga at like 260%) the damge diffrence is very very little almost makes you upset when you think of the cost of weapons and how they barly make you stronger (and PP pool doesnt get larger really on high weapons a grinded lower one will have more PP) Now take a 6* to just a moderate grind say +4-6 and it will have a even smaller TP diffrence than what I just mentioned.

I wont laugh at anybody out loud when I see them running around with expensive A ranks, but when they see my damage is the same they may get the clue for themselves. Even more so when I see them yelling about a super high PP recharge thats just making it even worse.

As of so far I have only seen people with the 7* granarod. I already beat the stats of that with my tomoirods. The mayrod is equal to a +9 tomoi but at +7 the diffrence will be un noticable by all means.

Anybody who wishes to argue against the point I just made, dont waist your time get the A ranks if thats what you prefer by all means its your choice.

When A grinders are out and im ritch I will maybe move to the 9* for now tho I will stay with 6* stuff.

Wands are the same story as above, except as shin hinted you can use tenora (or better yet grm)) and have more TP easy vs the higher stuff.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

well, for the hunter types, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference between A and B rank weapons. I do like my death dancer though and use it cuz I like to show off. and also, I'm not even gonna touch grinding.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2006-12-10 21:13 ]</font>

[ViciousXUSMC]

Yeah hunters have to use A rank for certain weapon types, thats why I made sure i was clear on the point I speak about force weapons only.

Plus you dont use nearly the same amount of PP so the recharge cost wont hit you as hard.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ViciousXUSMC on 2006-12-10 20:59 ]</font>

[Shiro_Ryuu]

yeah, true, I'm not bothered by the PP charge, I just don't use PAs on easy enemies like Pannons, Polties, Lapuchas, and I limit my amount of PAs on 4 legged enemies. I mostly may PA the big guys but guys like Vahras, Delsabans, Vandas, and such, if they come in mobs, I'll PA the hell out of them. But I'll save my PP for them and use normal attacks on the easier enemies since it'll be a waste.

[Arieta]

I use all A ranks myself, so I guess I suck according to Shim =p

I have 3, 8* double sabers ranging from 20-28% element and 3, 8* twin sabers ranging from 20-26% element.

The double sabers of course have to be A rank. The twin sabers though I picked 8* because they have about what, 100 more ATP then 6* ones? And a ton more ATA. I would have to grind a 6* saber up to 7 or higher to equal that 8* since GRM grinds poor.

As for my twin daggers though (when I make them), I will for sure go 6* because they're cheaper and easier to make. And their ATP is higher then Yohemi 8* even at base. They're about 60 ATA lower but not much I can do about that. The PP will easily be made up through grinds, and on grind 3 or 4 the 6* Twin daggers will have 200 ATP compared to the 8* twin daggers that are round 175 ATP base.

I do agree with what Shim is saying though. If you use a lower % A rank weapon it won't be that good. I only settled for 20% or higher with my weapons. Anything higher and I sold it so I could try again and again until I got 20% or higher. I honestly didn't spent that much because I was selling off my bad % A weapons. Before Patch day I had 1.6 million and now I'm sitting on 1.4 million. Got my A armor, got my A weapons of good %... pretty much just need a twin handgun and a few 6* daggers and I'm set (those will all be cheap). Then I'll just horde my money xD

[-Dainslef-]

Arieta = Rinoa Heartily (in game) ?

[-Shimarisu-]

IMO anything under 25% ain't worth dicking with, and 50% B rank still>25% A rank.

[Nayte]

On 2006-12-10 19:11, -Shimarisu- wrote:
If you want to know, for your 7 or 8*, if there's 6* or less that's feasibly grindable to an equal or better degree, ask me here.

It varies, but I have all the stats.


I think i'd have to agree, makes sense. If you dont mind, heres a few I've been wondering about:

Asami-Zashi Dagger 7*
Shintsuki-Zashi Twin Daggers 7*
Death Dancer Twin Saber 7*

[Randomness]

On 2006-12-10 19:54, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Oh, I guess I am just sloppy!

Let me tell you, that as Guntecher I don't let ANYONE die in S Linar Line except to megid, and that's not my fault.

I'm a better healer than 90% of Fortetechers, and I only ever have one wand on my available palette.



Better how?

[etlitch]

SSh you don't have to tell them, it's up to them to user their mesata however they want. No need to do research for them http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Kuya]

On 2006-12-10 17:59, Ravennittes wrote:
Lets get the facts straight k guys? C ranks fire/cast/swing slower than B's which fire/cast/swing slower than A's which fire/cast /swing slower than S's. Although this is a small ammount, it's worth it. Plus, 8* rods are VERY good, and, just so you know, 9* rods DO exist. It's stupid and old fashioned to keep B rank weapons if you have the chance to get 8* A rank weapons. I may not have A's yet, however, that is due to me not having money http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif.



Wait...what? There's a speed change in ranked weapons? Anyone link a thread or show this somewhere?

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-11 04:46, Randomness wrote:

Better how?



A. Because half of them don't do their job.
B. Because I grinded the best wand I could equip, and my resta is actually respectable.
C. Because in S rank Linear Line, the best support class is guntecher hands down.
D. Because newman fortetechers are easily the most self important, arrogant players in the entire game, and sometimes they get so annoyed at how I'm doing their job that their hurt pride results in mass suckage on their part. Or posts like yours.

"How are you better?"
"I am best!"
"Don't do my job!"
"Fortetechers are best!"
"Only newmen are real FOs!"

- All actual in-game quotes. :3 Cept that first one, which is uh, yours.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-11 07:23 ]</font>

[ljkkjlcm9]

c'mon people, don't you know by now that Shimarisu is God here on the PSOW forums and knows everything. Shimarisu is always correct and anyone who disagrees is a fool.

Honestly, I still believe it's a matter of opinion. I do believe that techers think so highly of themselves, and that other people rely on them too much. I've done A rank missions with no Forces and never had to use a mate to heal myself. It's amazing what moving around can do for you.

AS for the weapons, opinion. I don't like grinding, that doesn't make me a bad player. I find the risk outweighs the rewards. Getting maybe 10 ATP per grind, on a good grind, ie most are worse than that, is hardly worth it to me. I'll grind once, or twice on high luck days, because you can get guaranteed grinds on B and C ranks on high level luck with high level grinders, but that's about as far as I'll go. I'll be getting 7* of the new A rank only weapons I want, keeping my current 5* of the old weapons, then getting 9* of everything once they are released and easily obtainable. This is mostly due to lack of funds, otherwise I'd obviously make 8* of every weapon I could use. And considering the J servers are getting Grinder A boards, we'll get them in due time as well.

THE JACKEL



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ljkkjlcm9 on 2006-12-11 08:04 ]</font>

[ChrisKo]

-Shimarisu-,

Does it make you feel better to try and push your only partially correct ideas off on others as truth? Does it also make you feel better to insult every single person that questions your opinion as truth?

Your entire Melee weapon theory was thrown out the window on page 3 by the ATA difference of 100+ which CANNOT be increased in grind. Hmmm considering how ATA is naturally low unlike ATP it is MUCH more important, but if you like seeing 0's as you use your B weapons more power to you.

Also you act as if elemental % works on something besides the OPOSITE element. You would need 2 *6 Bweapons with 50% element and ground to atleast (6) for EVERY type to come close to the effeciency of someone with a full pallet of A rank. We are talking Melee weapons here nothing else.

Your theory and opinion basically SUCKED, please quit pushing it off on every single person who speaks.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-11 08:00, ChrisKo wrote:

Your entire Melee weapon theory was thrown out the window on page 3 by the ATA difference of 100+



No it wasn't, I recommended use of Tenoras which have very high ATA. 130 on the 6 star dual handguns compared to 132 on the 8* GRMs, wow, that's 100 ATA? Did you fail maths? Also, did yuo miss the part where I said it DEPENDED ON THE WEAPON?



Also you act as if elemental % works on something besides the OPOSITE element. You would need 2 *6 Bweapons with 50% element and ground to atleast (6) for EVERY type to come close to the effeciency of someone with a full pallet of A rank.


Which I have. I have full palette of 38-50 (Only 1 38, 3 50s and 2 44s) B rank weapons which I bought of f people for cheap because they don't value anything lower than 7*. And not only does it COME CLOSE to literally 99% of people with all A ranks, it SURPASSES.



We are talking Melee weapons here nothing else.

Your theory and opinion basically SUCKED, please quit pushing it off on every single person who speaks.



The large amount of people here doing their own research and agreeing with me shoots down your feelings on the matter.

[Ceresa]

Why don't you just make A ranks.

Sell the failure shit % ones at cost(or ideally profit if you can) to idiots.

Make more A ranks, keep the ones that are 38% or higher and use them.

More ata, (a lot more pp if the B you were using is tenora) and you have a headstart on A grinding when the bases are released.

I sure don't advocate 7 stars however, what a waste of money.

I also don't care about guns, you don't even need to worry about elemental %, and they are used by the higher ata classes, you should use whatever has the highest atp, which is generally, 6star + 10 equips.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ceresa on 2006-12-11 16:04 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif^Because I don't care about PP, and bcause that would be a massive gamble, it would waste a FORTUNE potentially. YOu could quite easily run out of money before getting a SINGLE decent A rank.

By the way, I tried it with double sabers and axes. I lost out hugely. Had terrible luck with synthing and 2 out of FIVE has succeeded on my 100 striking PM, I kept one, sold the other (immediately BTW, I see the market is there but I can't tap it ATM, I'm impoverished). Making my money back up slowly now.

This was 7* weapons btw (supposed 67% success rate), I made them to sell and I've already lost out. Back to grinding the linear line for mats.

I've also bought one 7* (a crossbow) directly out of the shop because I weighed up cost of synthing and mats vs failure, the fact I only wanted one, and it didn't seem worth making it even on a 100% ranged PM.


On 2006-12-11 08:00, ChrisKo wrote:
-Shimarisu-,

Does it also make you feel better to insult every single person that questions your opinion as truth?



It occurred to me fairly early on that I culd be nice about offering valuable info, or I could be an ass.

If I was nice, everybody would love me for it, and they'd worship my helpful info and praise my name. But wuold all be fake, and I'd still get jealous people who hated me stalking my every move.

IF I was an ass, only a select few SMART people would listen, becausde they'd look up the info for themselves. They'd get to know me past all the bullshit, and when they found out that 90% of it was an act, they'd be good friends.

So far, only a dozen or so people on PSOW/IRC/old PSOBB guys have managed to see past that.

I don't honestly care though. I admit I'm a troll in many respects. But I give valuable information, and if idiots choose not to reseasrch it because OMG I'M A NASTY, NASTY PERSON, it means nobody steps on my toes while I'm looking for my high % weapons. But for the smart people, who I actually want to play with. Who would benefit from my 3.5 months on this game.

Calling all fortetechers emos and having somebody agree with me like it was solid truth though was funny. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif That's why I do seemingly ignorant shit.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-11 16:13 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-11 16:15 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-11 16:21 ]</font>

[Reiichi]

You'd have to crank out a ton of high elemental % A weapons, and YOU'd have to do the cranking.

Buying high elemental % B weapons is based on how ignorant your shopkeepers are. I find deals all the time and when I do I buy, but there's no guarantee in that regard that I can get my hands on high % 5-6* tenora weapons for a cheap price. Who makes tenora weapons in bulk anyways? Moatoob hasn't been around that long.

I have a 50% light dagger 2* yohmei. I rule! And it cost like only 200 mes from someone's shop. Wish I could find sweet deals like that on 5-6* tenora weapons, but odds are pretty slim.

For twin sabers a page or so back, 6* tenora ones have 297 atp and 242 ata. 8* grm ones have 312 atp and 245 ata. Only 3 ata difference, and you can almost guarantee a +2 grinding on the 6* one. Think +2 grinding can cover 15 atp? But you gotta admit the A twin sabers look pretty good. Looks > stats

So, think I can get buyers on crap elemental 8* double sabers? Do I hear 200k? these are hellish to make -_- Maybe 150k....

[-Shimarisu-]

You need to weigh it up against your character's ATA too.

For example, a Fortegunner can get by on shitty guns for rather a while, and by grinding them can equal the damage of somebody with stupidly expensive guns.

A Guntecher may need the ATA. So it's either the 6* Tenoras or the 8* GRMs. Now, you weigh up cost vs efficiency and I think the 6* tenoras win out.

Synthed them myself BTW, no need to rely on store owner stupidity.

[Ceresa]

^Because I don't care about PP, and bcause that would be a massive gamble, it would waste a FORTUNE potentially. YOu could quite easily run out of money before getting a SINGLE decent A rank.

But you have to get high % AND grinds on the 6star to bring them up to speed with a good % ungrinded 8star. All the weapons you break, all the weapons you make that aren't even worth grinding because their % sucks, and then the ones you fail to even make. That's not chump change either.

If it costs 100k per attempt at 8 star, and 54% chance so on average, you need 200k per weapon. So you set up 2-3 at once. You sell the one[s] that succeeds for 200k, unless it's high % at which point you say cheers and keep it. Repeat as necessary and start with a good bankroll in case law of averages takes its time to kick in, which it will...eventually.

[-Shimarisu-]

^ That doesn't work if all three fail and you lose all your money! Which is what happened to ME. PS. You're an elitist. I'm offering advice to SAVE people money, not lose it. f you have millions in your bank because you play 24/7 then you may be fine synthing A ranks, but most people just want weaopns they can have NOW, and they o not play the markets like we do.

Your advice is not needed because I'm ALREADY SYNTHING A RANKS TO SELL. And I know from this that they are scoring high %s much lower than Bs. I've synthed 100s of Bs, 100 of Cs (PM food mostly), Cs get higher %s more often, so I think the same rule should work for As. I'm getting really lousy As so far.


On 2006-12-11 04:36, Nayte wrote:

On 2006-12-10 19:11, -Shimarisu- wrote:
If you want to know, for your 7 or 8*, if there's 6* or less that's feasibly grindable to an equal or better degree, ask me here.

It varies, but I have all the stats.


I think i'd have to agree, makes sense. If you dont mind, heres a few I've been wondering about:

Asami-Zashi Dagger 7*
Shintsuki-Zashi Twin Daggers 7*
Death Dancer Twin Saber 7*




Don't bother with 7* if a 6* of that weapon is available.

Rule of thumb, follow it.

However: 7* Yohmei dagger : 318 ATP, 245 ATA
8* yohmei: 360 ATP, 274 ATA.

6* Tenora: 341 ATP, 237 ATA.

Beats out the 7* IMO, which is clearly not worth it. On a high ATA class like Fighgunner, 6* may be a better choice than the 8*. On Wartecher, 8* wins out here. Always weigh up character ATA when making weapons.

BTW the 6* tenora equals the 8* ATP at grind 7. 7 seems to be key.

Twin daggers. Now bear in mind the ATP of these is low, so the HUGE majority of added damage comes from the % on your weapon. In this way, high % 5s will ALWAYS outperform low % 8%s.

7* Yohmei= 166 atp, 236 ata.
8* Yohmei= 187 atp, 264 ata.
6* Tenora= 178 atp, 229 ata. Exceeds ATP of A rank on grind FOUR. So once again, on a high ATA character this may be the better, more efficient choice, but on low ATA characters, if you are not hitting you may want to look into 8*.

Depends on the weapon. Here we go with twin sabers.

7* GRM: 276 atp, 219 ata.
8* GRM: 312 atp, 245 ata.
6* Tenora: 297 atp, 242 ata.... oh dear. Exceeds ATP of 8* on grind SIX, which is a decent and easy grind to get. You can grind up to six on "very high chance of success" or each grind.

IMO for twin sabers, at the moment you are better off with the 6*. Weigh it up yourself as regards daggers. I use Tenoras on my wartecher though, they hit fine because of my method of play.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-11 16:48 ]</font>

[Cav]

On 2006-12-11 06:16, Kuya wrote:

On 2006-12-10 17:59, Ravennittes wrote:
Lets get the facts straight k guys? C ranks fire/cast/swing slower than B's which fire/cast/swing slower than A's which fire/cast /swing slower than S's. Although this is a small ammount, it's worth it. Plus, 8* rods are VERY good, and, just so you know, 9* rods DO exist. It's stupid and old fashioned to keep B rank weapons if you have the chance to get 8* A rank weapons. I may not have A's yet, however, that is due to me not having money http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif.



Wait...what? There's a speed change in ranked weapons? Anyone link a thread or show this somewhere?



Make an A rank and put it against a C rank, you'll see the difference, at least I did with saber.

[Ryoki]

On 2006-12-10 16:28, -Dainslef- wrote:
So, I've seen a lot of comments about B-rank, 6* weapons being superior to A-rank, 8* weapons. The reason makes sense: There are no A-rank grinders. Fair enough. But looking at the numbers:

Ascalon (6* GRM Sword): 289 PP, 511 ATP, 149 ATA
Ascalon (4) (6* GRM Sword): 319 PP, 548 ATP, 149 ATA
This is probably as high as anyone will reasonably grind a 6* weapon.

Hanzo (7* GRM Sword): 317 PP, 598 ATP, 169 ATA
Jigiri (8* GRM Sword): 327 PP, 675 ATP, 189 ATA

The A rank weapons seem absolutely, 100% better. Of course, they are also much more expensive. The chance of success reduction is largely offset by the risk of grinding.

People also like to point out that A rank weapons cost more to charge, but by my experience, it seems non-existant/negligible.

Any thoughts?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Dainslef- on 2006-12-10 16:28 ]</font>

Eh, I like the look of A ranks.

________
VAPORIZER REVIEWS (http://vaporizers.net/vaporizers)

[Ledin]

Dear Shimarisu,

You are talking about skill and efficiency in a game like PSU, which struck me as a bit of a paradox. First off, MMORPGs of any kind--which is a category PSU arguably doesn't even fit under since it's a lot simpler--are 90% about time investment, not player skill. After playing FFXI hardcore for almost 3 years, I can tell you that PSU is like taking a vacation in terms of grinding and skill required (even though FFXI was far from rocket science).

You will notice an increased efficiency if your party consists of "pro" players only, aye, but you can play games with nothing but gimpy people and still succeed. Jobs don't matter, equipment doesn't matter, skill doesn't matter. The difference in PSU is marginal.

That said, I'm glad you are playing the way you enjoy it--min/maxing that last 0.1% to maximize your character's efficiency--but you should not forget that's not necessarily the best way for other players. You mock the "American way of life," bigger, better, faster, but at the same time you resort to the stereotypical condescending attitude of "I'm better than you." A little acceptance goes a long way.

Thank you for your time.

[Parn]

Wow, old school. Completely off topic, but I'd love to see a PSU related piece of artwork from you. The one you did from PSO back during the Dreamcast days is still one of my favorites.

[-Shimarisu-]

Wow, if you think PSU is an easy game where you can get by with a bunch of gimpy people with shit equips, all I can say is please play A rank moa missions, and try scoring S ranks from Linear Line S.

[Ledin]

On 2006-12-11 19:22, Parn wrote:
Wow, old school. Completely off topic, but I'd love to see a PSU related piece of artwork from you. The one you did from PSO back during the Dreamcast days is still one of my favorites.
Wow, somebody remembers that? Glad you liked it (although that picture is so outdated now, even looking at it makes me cringe), and maybe I will do a PSU illustration some time down the road. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif


On 2006-12-11 19:30, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Wow, if you think PSU is an easy game where you can get by with a bunch of gimpy people with shit equips, all I can say is please play A rank moa missions, and try scoring S ranks from Linear Line S.
Please don't make such quick assumptions without even knowing me. I have consistently gotten S-Rank on Linear Line S until I got bored of it and went back to grinding Neudaiz Relics A. I actually don't see how you can even fail getting S-Rank, dodging Megid is about as hard as playing Frogger. PSU is an easy game, no matter how you slice it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ledin on 2006-12-11 19:52 ]</font>

[Cav]

On 2006-12-11 19:30, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Wow, if you think PSU is an easy game where you can get by with a bunch of gimpy people with shit equips, all I can say is please play A rank moa missions, and try scoring S ranks from Linear Line S.



Scape doll x10 >.>; makes it so anyone can through, now as for Bruce dungeon A... that may be interesting

[-Shimarisu-]

Were you lpaying it with 2 players though?

No, no.... wait. Play it with 6 and one will run RIGHT into megid with nothing you can do to help them.

I duo it with two rangers. It's still a challenge to keep them off. I had to synth high ATA guns to ensure I managed to freeze them. It requires forward planning, something MOST PEOPLE are not capable of. It's quite amazing juist how many people SUCK at what you think is an EASY game.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, you and I are just good at it?

Also I don'tr use scapes in S rank LL, it's a waste of money and makes you complacent. Well, I use ONE. Just in case, but I very rarely need it. I got hit once by megid in three runs the other day, cause I was getting tired and it used my scape.

The challenge is not just surviving buyt being efficient. Low ATA guns wuoldnt cut it on my character. This wouldn't occur to many players, they'd just be all GUNTECHER/HUMAN SUCKS! IMMA RE-ROLL.

TRY to deny it.


Edit: Neudaiz relics A is a piece of piss, you come back with the same argument when every area is S.

PSU>>>>PSO in terms of skill needed, and ctually REQUIRES teamwork. If half your party sucks, good luck carrying it if you can't resta/erverser. And if your resta is shit like mine, that means forward planning of the kind I described. Ie grind your B rank wands and GRIND THEM HIGH. Then MAYBE you can support a shitty party, but eh. One of you STILL needed to be good.

Anyway you try playing Desert A as a hunter without getting raped by Bil de Vears, cept your party NEED you for those Bil de Vears, to be efficient. Same as they need erangers for the dragons, and the boss. They need a couple of rangers, hunters and somebody who can resta, at LEAST. Forward planning. I've had to leave TWO games of desert A lately because the hunters sucked and we couldn't progress. I could keep them alive sure, but there weren't doing dick to those Bil de Vears, damage wise.

Saber and gun combo, on Bil de Vears. And neither of them DARED get close.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-11 20:09 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

Meh I'm not arguing with Ledin any more. Says in one breath you can survive with a crappy, gimpy patry, then in the next that you have to dodge megid. If he is getting S ranks he is plainly not playing with a crappy, gimpy party and so, argument negated. Because in every game I join that's I'm not duoing with a friend, SOMEBODY jobs to megid.

Not me, Guntecher>>>>>>>>>that area, but only AFTER I managed my equips well.

[Cav]

nuediaz A also happens to be the best place for MP/time ratio. When they make relics S I will gladly run it but until then we are limited.
Playing LL with less people actually makes it easier, less chance for that delsaber off screen to switch aggro for whatever reason and ninja megid you across the screen. Since they all have hate on less people you have more control over where they go.

[ViciousXUSMC]

for some reason I find the term "ninja megid" kinda funny I will have to add that to my vocabulary.

[Neo187H]

If you REALLY want to get into it, a 3* Yohemi twin saber with a 50% elemental has 20 more TOTAL ATP than the GRM 7* Death Dancer twin sabers. 544 as compared to 566, and this was on a Hunter (5) lvl 27 char. The difference will only become more prominent as your character progresses.

[Ledin]

On 2006-12-11 20:15, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Meh I'm not arguing with Ledin any more. Says in one breath you can survive with a crappy, gimpy patry, then in the next that you have to dodge megid. If he is getting S ranks he is plainly not playing with a crappy, gimpy party and so, argument negated. Because in every game I join that's I'm not duoing with a friend, SOMEBODY jobs to megid.
You're talking extremes now though. The original argument was about whether or not ungrinded 7*/8* weapons are gimp compared to a well-grinded 6* version. Of course there are noobs, like in every game, but you always have the option not to play with them (e.g. private parties, boot them from a public game if they die without a scape, etc.). What I'm saying is that a 20 ATP difference won't make or break your character.

Would you actually boot a player with a "gimpy" ungrinded 7* weapon, regardless of his behavior in-game? That's my whole point.

And we went back to Neudaiz Relics A solely because of the MP/time ratio, as Cav pointed out. Not to mention I can skill all my bullets without worrying about using the proper element there--until they add Dark bullets, that is.

[ViciousXUSMC]

isnt B better than A for both mestea and cxp? I know it is for meseta reward anyways but dont know the pay out in cxp for A rank.

[Ledin]

On 2006-12-11 21:47, ViciousXUSMC wrote:
isnt B better than A for both mestea and cxp? I know it is for meseta reward anyways but dont know the pay out in cxp for A rank.
That's quite possible--I haven't run Relics B for a long time now, so I can't say for sure. The meseta difference is negligible (1850 vs. 2100 meseta), dunno about the mission points.

It would make the grinding less fun though. Heck, you might have problems tagging all mobs with a full group!

[Cav]

20 MP 2100 meseta for A, idk for B, but yea its already hard enough to tag mobs in A sometimes >.> as they die in about 15 seconds. Except Tengohghjhskhfksjhfkjshs.