Rifle > Laser Cannon??

[SapphireArc]

With the new weapons out, I knew it was time to obtain my two new weapons. I bought the "Assasin" and the "Laser Cannon". I quickly changed to Fortegunner and jumped to it. But then I noticed that the stats of both weapons are almost exactly the same.

----------------------
[A]Assasin (0)
PP: 1193
Att: 443
Acc:152
----------------------
[A]Laser Cannon (0)
PP: 1101
Att:443
Acc. 130
----------------------

Just by looking at the stats the rifle is better by only a small portion. Yet in battle, it does 100+ more damage then the laser cannon. As a Lv.50/FG.1 I am doing 250+ dmg with my rifle and 160+ dmg with the laser cannon. The only thing that the laser cannon can do is go through a slew of enemies. I was really hoping the laser cannon could be more powerful.

I even went ahead and looked at the 1* up versions, the "Burst" and the "Maser Cannon". Both the same too, att Att:500. Some of the higher rank Cannons descriptions even note that "its power is immense/similar to a natural disaster". Well then so is my rifle apparently.

I was really hoping this was going to be the Rangers version of the Hunters "Axe". I don't know, thats just my opinion. What do you guys think?


RIFLE to LASER CANNON
Firing Speed > Firing Speed
Damage > Damage
Knockback > Knockback
Penetration < Penetration
More Ammo > More Ammo

[Kano-Okami]

Depends on the situation.
Against scattered or single enemies, Rifle is always the best way to go.
Although if your fighting off a swarm, or fighting a multi-target boss, I highly recommend laser cannon.
I've tried them both, and I favor the rifle, over the other.

[SapphireArc]

You sure about the boss? I fought De Regan and only hit him once hitting him chest through tail. I dunno, I suppose if you tried it out, I believe you. Gonna have to try that again.

[ChrisKo]

Your comparison is flawed....

Rifle > Laser Cannon(Pew Pew) ONLY if your talking about single target dps AKA bosses, minibosses, and Large Hp single or double spawn monsters.

Rifle < Laser Cannon(Pew Pew) For things like 5-10 small creatures zerging the FF's in front of you. Im sure it makes you guys hearts tingle when you hit 6 things at once.

I would think, because I would do so, that most rangers would want a variety of weapons. Lets say atleast 3 types on your pallet. I would prolly have 2-3 rifles, 2 laser cannons, followed by a mix of atleast 1 single handed melee weapon and an assortment of other things, that is IF i was a ranger which I am not http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif.

And No not rangers version of Axe, it is rangers version of Barta http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif.

[Careful]

Hanguns are way better

[ChrisKo]

Kano,

Im not sure about GrenadeL., but Laser is single target only for bosses and multi hit point creatures.

GrenadeL. would shine on bosses if it did hit more than 1.

[usmcbama]

Now you're talking! I absolutely LOVE my grenade launcher! It absolutely RAPES De Ragan (hits up to 5 strike points if aimed at center of mass). It's great for knocking back a group of weaker mobs, but it knocks them back so far, you have to run up a bit to hit them again. But what I've found it's REALLY good for are the 4-leggers. It knocks them on their side, and not so far away, so you can effectively keep lobbing shots on them and kill them without even giving them a chance to get up! My favorite weapon so far. It can be challenging to use effectively, but it really pays off under the right circumstances. In order of personal preference: grenade launcher, shotgun, spear, rifle.

[PhatKnutz]

Grenade Launcher CAN hti multiple points at once on creatures that have them, but it also requires more skill to correctly judge the arc and timing of the explosion repeatedly on the fly. If you're up against speedy/erratic targets that aren't distracted by another player/NPC/PM, it may not be the best thing to use.

I view Laser Cannons as a narrow-cone Shotgun. I've been growing more attached to my Shigga Amza +3 lately, simply because its the easiest gun of all to level. Its already lv25 with lv2 Freeze, and it wont take long to reach 30. The primary strength of it is also a major drawback in battle. With 5 shots, I can do up to around 600 damage to mobs at very close range (as a lv48 Cast Fortegunner 1), but in return the gun effectively becomes a Melee weapon, locking my position next to a mob and leaving me highly vulnerable to a counter-attack or a cheap shot from a mob coming after me from off-screen. Its also just hard to use on a crowd when soloing or few others are in the game.

Therefore, rely on a Laser Cannon for long range piercing. I find the damage comparison between the Rifle and Laser Cannon despite having the same ATK flawed: Betcha top dollar the person forgot their likely already well leveled Bullet PA on the Rifle, vs a brand new Laser which Bullet PA cost 5x as much as the non-A rank exclusive types. I anticipate the Laser Cannon being useful for me in semi-tight clusters with a Freeze Laser more than some might think, especially since I usually dont have too much trouble lining up mobs for a good shot. Plus, with a fast burning rate of PP, it's merely a situational type weapon for one more situation type fully covered.

For Grenade Launchers, however, thats more of a main assault-type weapon rather than the Laser. Let the hunters tank the front lines so I can stand back and bombard the enemy with relentless mortar fire. I plan on conveniencing the rest of the party by keeping the mobs in a continuous chaos tumbling all over the place with a heavy dose of Lightning-effect explosions to keep them too stifled to return attack.

The very definition of Shellshock.

Also, if you can use them, look into Crossbows. A rather powerful w/less ATA Handgun Alternative that may truly shine to those that stay dedicated to leveling it up.

[Maskim]

Was your Rifle bullet lvl 20, while your laser cannon bullet was new at lvl 1 when this comparison on damage took place?

[Diablohead]

On 2006-12-11 10:11, Maskim wrote:
Was your Rifle bullet lvl 20, while your laser cannon bullet was new at lvl 1 when this comparison on damage took place?


DING, probably whats causing the 100+ damage. well thats how it sounds in theory.

Im 15k away from a lazer rifle and im looking foward to it, then its another 90 to save for a grenadeL http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[DarkAtvar]

Don't foget Lazer Cannons only get lvl status effects where as rifles and grenade launchers get lvl 3 status effects. I'll be getting my 8* grenande launcher before I mess with lazer cannons.

[ChrisKo]

"Pew Pew Pew" Nuff said.

[Kano-Okami]

On 2006-12-11 08:56, ChrisKo wrote:
Kano,

Im not sure about GrenadeL., but Laser is single target only for bosses and multi hit point creatures.

GrenadeL. would shine on bosses if it did hit more than 1.

Ah, thanks for the correction then. I only used the laser cannon in Linear Line, to test it. I never got a chance to try it out on a boss..but..
Gernade launcher..?
Don't you mean Shotgun, right?
I never gave the Shotgun much use. I don't even believe you could use the FPS mode with it, and the reload type wasn't fast enough for my taste..although couldn't a bow get multi-hits on a boss? I remember its initial blow had a small blast radius, hitting up to 2-3 enemies around.

EDIT:Scratch that, about the Gernade launcher. The reason I haven't tried it is because I haven't gotten online, yet. (Curses SonicTeam for lameness of gimped extra mode)


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kano-Okami on 2006-12-11 13:25 ]</font>

[Alisha]

cannons have a high status apply rate. i swear every weapon with a high apply rate has a slow SE level

[Saner]

Laser Cannons are still powerful, can pierce, and look so cool.

so ya they are more fun to use. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[Diablohead]

Is the grenade splash damage only a 2 mob hit like some force moves?

[VanHalen]

but.....which one looks cooler? i'd say the laser cannon

[Diablohead]

Just brought the lazer cannon and have given it a go on parum field, its slower then I expected but im solo right now, im sure it works wonders in a team with hard mobs.

Kind of wish I went with the grenades for starters but im sure I can make another 90k by this coming weekend http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[McLaughlin]

Well how broken would a Laser Cannon be if it was stronger than a Rifle AND it could pierce?

Sometimes I really wonder about people.

[JeffHikari]

You forget that the Laser Cannon is EXTREMELY SLOW to fire. I think it would be more balanced to have it be only slightly weaker than a Rifle.

[dotdotdotdot]

weaker? i'm not sure how laser is supposed to be weaker? once both bullets are leveled, laser should be signifigantly stronger.

pulling some data from the jp wiki, rifles BA is 160%/155% at 30, where laser is 170%/165%. comparing the 8* rifle and laser, they bother have 500 atp. 7* both 443. 9* both 541. rifles do have more ata however.

laser is slower than rifle, but i would not say extremely slower, or even much slower. maybe it's just my perception based on the fact i really love my laser, but it seems just a tad slower, maybe bow speed? maybe even abit slower than that, but in any rate is faster to fire than shotgun.

i'm not really sure what factors sega based balancing on, but i would think the pp cost to fire and the SE level 1 might be what holds it back. considering the base cost for highest level rifle is 12 vs. laser's 40, rifle has signifigantly more staying power.

[PhatKnutz]

But GAWD do they burn out fast. I just got mine made with the 3rd synth, 19pp a shot. And it only regens 7 a tick.....

Actually thats probably on par with the Grenade Launcher (24pp a shot, 8/tick)

And this is before lv11/21 bullet PA costs.

[Kuya]

On 2006-12-11 14:14, Diablohead wrote:
Is the grenade splash damage only a 2 mob hit like some force moves?



Splash can hit a max of 4 targets regardless of bullet. Just got 11 and I don't know/can't tell if the range/explosion/knock back has changed.

[omegapirate2k]

I've only seen a few people using laser cannons, and yeah, they really help clearing out mobs of small enemies.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: omegapirate2k on 2006-12-12 09:10 ]</font>

[panzer_unit]

On 2006-12-12 02:36, dotdotdotdot wrote:
i'm not really sure what factors sega based balancing on, but i would think the pp cost to fire and the SE level 1 might be what holds it back. considering the base cost for highest level rifle is 12 vs. laser's 40, rifle has signifigantly more staying power.



40 PP for 4 hits > 12 PP for 1 hit... think of it that way.

[Akaimizu]

Hmm. I haven't seen the Laser Cannon in action. By your descriptions, could I say it behave like a Mini-SUV, and I do mean Mini?

[Musax]

Here's a video showing off the laser cannon for those that are interested (not mine, credit goes to Henrietta).

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xtyu-3VkcU4

Note that this is Extra Mode and the Laser Cannon has much more PP in online mode.

[PosiBolt]

I know for the fact that the Grenade Launcher, at least, can hit multiple hit zones on an enemy. The Laser Cannon cannot. Both are useful in the correct situations, however. For instance, i've found the Laser Cannon quite useful for firing through large mobs of enemies. With Freeze on it, you can continue to hit enemies behind the one you've frozen, using the frozen enemy as a shield of sorts.

The Grenade Launcher is a bit hard to use, but extremely useful in the right situations. I was in Endrum last night and I managed to trap a group of 3 of those rifle weilding ninja casts in a corner using the grenade launcher. The explosion kept pushing them into the corner, where there was no escape from the next shot. I've found it to be useful for an opening shot of sorts as a group of enemies spawns, to knock 'em back and give everyone a chance to run up and start attacking. Large bosses also get hit with any section within range of the blast...Dragon usually gets about 5 hits per shot if aimed correctly.

Altogether a very difficult weapon to use, but immensely powerful in the right situations. Can't wait to build a 8 star one, or for some Grinder A's.

[Kuya]

I thought I was going to get me a laser cannon but the only place I personally would find it useful would be the halls in Relic zones. Grenades and their knock back have been far more useful for me. Rifles with SE4 have been great for me being a support ranger. And can anyone confirm 5 hits on De Ragan? I've run him at least 20 times with 'nades and have only seen 4 hits, max.

[Diablohead]

Yeah the lazer burns out realy quick, but I did defeat like 5 mobs in 3 shots at one point because they were all in a huddle.

After thinking about it more I would say the lazer is best as a hotswap gun and never keep it out, also you are best holding the urge to buy it untill you are an avergely hi level of 40+ to make it more worthwhile, its pretty useless in dragon runs etc.