Grinding B ranks

[Kei-Z]

Well, I've been triyin' to grind my B rank weapons up and I keep breaking them. The highest I've gotten one to was about +8. Are there any kinds of tricks to getting them to +10 besides using the highest rated grinders possible? I thought it would be a lot easier than this...

[ChrisKo]

+3 luck and high grinders is all u can do.

[Kei-Z]

Eh...as I feared...I'm a beast so I have +2 luck today and it doesn't seem to be helping much...

[Kuya]

If it was easy - we'd all have +10's http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif I've got 3 now but they're all C ranked. Remember, the higher the rank, the harder the grind.

[Kei-Z]

Yeah...I suppose that's true...being a beast wartecher is interesting...i have to grind high to do good tech damage. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[lavosmanx]

Getting them to even +8 is a task alone. The first few ranks you can use +2's if you have a high enough luck. I know thats how I was able to to get one up to +3.

[Doh42]

Interesting concept. I'm a wartecher also, but I don't do tech damage at all. Have you tried buying the 150 meseta TP-boosting items at the NPC shops? I know they worked well on my FO back in the days to push damage, and 150 meseta a piece is fair enough.

[Kei-Z]

Hmmmm....good tip. Next time, I think I'll just stop at +7. I seem to fail after +7 nearly every time...

[Alpha-Hunter]

hhhmmm brave man. I usually always stop whenever I stops saying very high chance. and what's teh grinding period again after you've feed it 99 items? noon PST to midnight PST?

[Laranas]

By the way, Wartechers do crap tech dmg regardless of race... they may be techers, but they're flaunting about half the TP you'd have as a Fortecher/Force.

[Kei-Z]

True, however, their TP is good enough to do pretty good damage to mobs that resist physical attacks. I really just want to increase my TP enough that my attack techs can be at least useful.

[Laranas]

Maybe it improves as you level, but as a Lv50 Human I had around 300 TP as a Wartecher and was basically doing the same 140 dmg Foie's as my PM. I've since switched to Fortecher for 500-600 dmg foies, yet it's only 400 TP higher.

[Liokia]

Starting supplies:
15 Railgun
Assortment of B grinders 1->10

Status +3 luck
Rule: Never grind with less then "High" but only use "High" if "Very High" is not available

3 broke at 7->8
2 broke at 6->7
5 broke at 5->6
2 broke at 3->4
1 broke at 2->3
1 broke at 1->2

Number successfully grinded to +10.... 0

Analysis: Grinding Bites

[Danyl]

grinding....whether it be skills, levels, weapons, or on the dance floor, some people just cant do it. The trick to success is to grind ALOT of weapons. Also i'm comfortable grinding something when it says "about 50/50" with any grind over +7. Take a risk just dont blow anything you cant replace, ie. what you got on hand.

[Liokia]

One of the things that makes grinding so difficult is that when you are grinding back to back and all those grinds end up stacking up agianst you... heres what I mean...

2000 people start out with 1 B rank weapon each
For the sake of argument the scale will be:
Very High= 95%
High= 65%

You can arguably take your weapons from 0->6 and maintain Very High status until then so... (All numbers rounded up)

0->1= 100% 2000 weapons remain
1->2= 95% 1900 weapons remain
2->3= 95% 1805 weapons remain
3->4= 95% 1715 weapons remain (1714.25)
4->5= 95% 1630 weapons remain (1629.25)
5->6= 95% 1549 weapons remain (1548.50)
6->7= 65% 1007 weapons remain (1006.85)
7->8= 65% 655 weapons remain (654.55)
8->9= 65% 426 weapons remain (425.75)
9->10= 65% 277 weapons remain (149.1)

A little under 14% of the people who started grinding their weapon made it all the way to 10... ouch... and I am pretty sure I set the percentages too high and its important to remember that this involves at least two B+10 Grinders and three B+9 grinders. Not very good odds at all....

[-Shimarisu-]

I honestly don't think it's worth grinding hunter weaps high, I synth a ton instead, get good %s, and once you hit those 50%s it'd be a foolish thing to try to grind to +10. Only about 5%-10% of weaps will ever make it that far.

On a good grinded, good % weap, the majority of the damage is from the %. The grind ain't worth it if you get 50%, I just wouldn't risk it. I grinded my 25-30%s to +6, and none of em did the damage of my +2 50%ers.

On force and ranger weaps? Sure, grind em up, you'll make as many failures as hunters make bad %s so it all evens out in the end.

[XDespaiR]

i remember when i first learned to grind weapons....

i first started grinding a hajirod not really knowing what i was doing. i somehow got to about +8 when i got the fifty-fifty chance, and i went along with it. then when it was +9 i did another fifty-fifty and it worked.....lol. once that one was +10 i broke 3 hajis, and realized i got really lucky my first time.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: XDespaiR on 2007-01-15 02:33 ]</font>

[Danyl]

what is the difference of chance per + on a grinder? It feels like to me that its 5%, at least near the top end.

[Liokia]

The wording on the grinders implies some form of point scale. I personally believe that the scale is 1->100 or 1->20 or something with everything adding or subtracting from the % needed to pass. I doubt that a "High" with a +9 is going to increase your chances over a "High" with a +7 or +8. The wording implies some form of point scale.

[panzer_unit]

There should be some small bonus on the actual grinder quality, I think it's more important to save mid- and high-level grinders for when they're making the difference between High/VHigh on a weapon you can't afford to lose, or between 50-50/High on a weapon you can.

[zanotam]

On 2006-12-12 08:00, Laranas wrote:
By the way, Wartechers do crap tech dmg regardless of race... they may be techers, but they're flaunting about half the TP you'd have as a Fortecher/Force.


WRONG! On my F Human WT i was using 7* canes and a 50 tp boost item and I was far outdamaging my poor 4* melee weapons which i was stuck with do to the fact that you get only 6% more atp then tp and it seems that is just not enough http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Remedy]

On 2006-12-12 08:22, Laranas wrote:
Maybe it improves as you level, but as a Lv50 Human I had around 300 TP as a Wartecher and was basically doing the same 140 dmg Foie's as my PM. I've since switched to Fortecher for 500-600 dmg foies, yet it's only 400 TP higher.Mechanics of Technics. Technics take your total calculated TP (base +/- units + weapon), multiply that by a multipler (Foie's is like 250% or something like that), and then after that, I believe it's 1 damage per 5 multipled TP.

Given, let's say, 700 TP, plus a Mayrod for 575 TP, and a Sta/Force for 50 TP, you get 1325. Multipled by 250% (hypothetical number, I'll look at the real Foie percentages later), you get 3312.5, which, after dividing by 5, is 662.5 - entirely within the scope of what you're stating. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[PMB960]

I think if you really want to grind them up that high and have a really good chance of it succeeding you will have to wait for A rank grinder boards. Also there is a chart on psupedia.org that tells you what the chance of success is depending on your luck and what grinder it is.

[Liokia]

On 2007-01-15 07:20, panzer_unit wrote:
There should be some small bonus on the actual grinder quality, I think it's more important to save mid- and high-level grinders for when they're making the difference between High/VHigh on a weapon you can't afford to lose, or between 50-50/High on a weapon you can.



Thats what I said... but I dont think that if you obtain "High" status with a +9 its going to help you out anyone more then "High" status with a +6

[ljkkjlcm9]

uhm, I make a character when there is a 3 luck day, I use B+1 grinders to 5, then B+6 to 7, then B+9 to 9 then B+10 to 10, I've made... 15 or so 10 grind B ranks, all tenora, I've kept 2 that I prefer, the single saber, which is stronger than my 9* saber, and the twin daggers.

If you're wondering, I made the complete +3 luck chart for grinding B ranks, and put it on PSUpedia, due to making so many of them

THE JACKEL



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ljkkjlcm9 on 2007-01-16 16:54 ]</font>

[SolomonGrundy]

0->1= 100% 2000 weapons remain
1->2= 95% 1900 weapons remain
2->3= 95% 1805 weapons remain
3->4= 95% 1715 weapons remain (1714.25)
4->5= 95% 1630 weapons remain (1629.25)
5->6= 95% 1549 weapons remain (1548.50)
6->7= 65% 1007 weapons remain (1006.85)
7->8= 65% 655 weapons remain (654.55)
8->9= 65% 426 weapons remain (425.75)
9->10= 65% 277 weapons remain (149.1)

good chart, but now instead of 2000, let's do 20. Math remains ~ the same, and you end up with 2.7 out of 20. Let's call it 2.

I would take 2, +10 force or gunner weapons at the 3* or 6* variety, having started with 20

No, the real question is...HOW did you grind? Did you make them ALL +3, then try and make them ALL +5, then make them ALL +7, then try and make the remaining one's +10?

Or did you take 1 weapon at a time up to +10?

[Arislan]

It's kind of a mix. See here (http://www.pso-world.com/viewtopic.php?topic=129565&forum=22) for what percentages you've got on C and B rank weapons when grinding them from 9 to 10. You can infer the rest from there. It's a definite percentage at each rank for each grinder. Luck 3 brings that percentage up 5-7%. That's about all we know for sure.

Oh, and using a higher rank grinder on a lower ranked item does nothing but waste a higher rank grinder (B+5 instead of a C+5 for example)

[SolomonGrundy]

On 2007-01-16 17:01, Arislan wrote:


Oh, and using a higher rank grinder on a lower ranked item does nothing but waste a higher rank grinder (B+5 instead of a C+5 for example)



dern it. I was hoping, well, we could get some 100% of success grindage for the folks who love the melee weapons.

[Liokia]

On 2007-01-16 16:58, SolomonGrundy wrote:

No, the real question is...HOW did you grind? Did you make them ALL +3, then try and make them ALL +5, then make them ALL +7, then try and make the remaining one's +10?

Or did you take 1 weapon at a time up to +10?



If you take a group of 20 weapons grinding down the list to 4, then restart @ the top and grind down to 5 , then restart agian @ the top and grind down to 6, then continue... your are in essence trying to stretch the odds in your favor. However the chance of a break will be more then likely much more noticable than for the masses (and not so much for the lucky few XD) .... if you are going to try to grind a weapon to +10 I would highly recommend using that method... you should have a much better chance of success doing so. It is hard to work out the math so that it would effect a single person but in essence if you are going to be grinding a weapon from 1->10 you must take into consideration this:


Grinding B
Very High= 95%
High= 65%
Each Grind Level assigned 100 points.
Grind 0->1 considered 100% No points assigned.
900 total points available.

1->2 = -5 points
2->3 = -5 points
3->4 = -5 points
4->5 = -5 points
5->6 = -5 points
6->7 = -35 points
7->8 = -35 points
8->9 = -35 points
9->10 = -35 points
________________________
-165 total points

165 points / 900 points= .1833>>>
18.33% Additional Chance Your Weapon should have broken on the last grind.

So that 65% on 9->10 is shrunk down to a measly 46.67%. To put it into every day use its the same thing as if I flipped a coin 5 times and all 5 landed on heads. If I asked you to put down 100K on the next flip would you honestly think heads agian? I would hope not. Basically the idea is your pushing you luck. With each successful grind your chance of breaking the next grind goes up slightly. This is FAR less severe in the larger scale of things because there have been so many weapons broken while your grinding yours away... however on a micro level you feel its sting quite a bit more. If your wondering the rest of the chart would go like this...


6->7 10% Additional failure chance
7->8 13.57 Additional failure chance
8->9 16.25% Additional failure chance
9->10 18.33% Additional failure chance

Prior to 6->7 the averages will not follow the same basic set up... and since its almost midnight I wont go into it http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif lol... but thats part of the reason that you start seeing a lot of failures around the 5->6 and 6->7 mark. Its also important to keep in mind that these averages the (High=65% and VH=95%) I made them up for the purpose of simplicity... currently the exact numbers are not known to my knowledge. Also my charts use best set up possible. Allways keeping it above high whenever possible on +3 luck days. Even without the +3 luck the same idea will apply so its easy to see why a 50/50 doesn't feel like a 50/50 lol...

(Edit: Removed a mathematical marker)








<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Liokia on 2007-01-20 20:50 ]</font>

[Laranas]

You know the PSU Bible released grind chances in %s...

[Liokia]

lol... have you seen that thing.? -.-... we got it, stuck it in my trunk and my two back tires burst...

[Laranas]

On 2007-01-20 20:54, Liokia wrote:
lol... have you seen that thing.? -.-... we got it, stuck it in my trunk and my two back tires burst...

I read it from time to time so I know the size... has lots of good info

[imfanboy]

And the other thing about Lioka's method is that if everything else has broken, then you can safely stop with the weapons at the highest grind you managed to achieve and be content.


I stopped grinding my Alterics when I only had 2 left and kept a 6 and an 8 - and I'm quite happy with those.

[Liokia]

Would it be @ all possible for you to send me the exact %s for B with +3 luck?