Blade Swing Kill/Hit Limit? Annoying!

[AzureBlaze]

Noticed something annoying today...
It appears that swords have some kind of kill or hit limit put on each swing. The blade IGNORES enemies. Is it just me, or, you can test it yourself.

I run Unsafe/Fight Food C to get free mats/mates, and to lvl up my PA's. Since all monster EVP is so low there, the PA is guarenteed to so nearly never miss. All you do is wait till the monsters get close enough, push one button, and...think you hit them all. Every monster surrounding you SHOULD die in 1 hit.

Problem:
It does not. If there are more then 3 or 4 monsters, in a gang around you, only certain ones will die. Say I'm surrounded by that "V" of pannon that appears near the 2 pillars. I get in there, swing the sword, and only 3 or 4 pannon will die. The others (I think it's like 8 who appear) will NOT pull "0"s, they're simply...ignored. Remember "Miss" in PSU means a "0" comes out, it never says nothing at all. They're not blocking, missing, or out of my range. The blade is simply failing to kill them, it's like they're not even there.

This is bogus. What is this limit here for? It's not a big deal to swing twice (other then wasting pp) but I can see this as a problem in rougher missions if you're in a mob and half of it's not getting hit at all because your wep deemed "Too many guys".

Do you notice it? (if you don't, try it with some multi-hit wep in a low lvl spot where you can allow things to surround you safely)
Why is this doing this? Does a PS2 lack processing power to process a bunch of kills at once that aren't a SUV? Does it trigger lag or something? /end pet peeve.

[Choja]

It's noticed, Swords have a 3 enemy attack, and if using a Crea Replica or Crea Original, may increase in monsters hit.
It is not your PS2 malfunctioning, it's just your sword.

[Flamingo99]

This is one of the reasons why I didn't like swords. The PA was slow (for me personally) to begin with, and it didn't hit all the enemies around me, like you said Azure. The only reason I think the limit is there is so swords wouldn't be over powered.

[UltimateCarl]

Actually, this is intentional and part of the game's programming. It's carried over from PSO.

See, the thing is, weapons don't fall into two categories of "Single-Hit" and "Multi-Hit". Rather, each weapon has a certain amount of enemies it hits maximum. For most melee and ranged weapons, this number is one. For swords it happens to be three. That is to say, with a normal, say, saber, you will never hit more than one enemy at a time with a normal attack, and with a normal sword you will never hit more than three enemies at a time with a normal attack.

For reference, the number is two for Axes (I'm pretty sure, but don't rely 100% on me), three to five (depending on the level of the currently equipped Bullet) for Shotguns and Crossbows, six (I think) for Lasers, and... Well, something for Grenade Launchers.

Sometimes PAs up this number, such as the first twin dagger PA, which ups the amount of enemies you can hit to three during the PA. In the case of the first sword PA, however, it stays at three.

Later on, certain rares called "Crea" weapons exist. They have slightly lower stats than weapons of the same class/rank, but can hit one additional enemy than normal weapons of their type. A Crea Saber hits two enemies, and a Crea Sword four enemies, for example.

The reason for this is to limit power. Though a sword may be slower than, say, a saber, that's really not enough to limit it. If you could corral a group of all enemies in the area after you and could Sword PA them all at once, you'd likely be doing three times the DPS of anyone with a single-hit weapon. Also Multi-Hit melee weapons connect with large enemies with more than one contact point. Do you have any idea how quickly you could kill the Dragon by applying your damage to it six+ times?!

Techs work in a similar way, but I've rambled on for far too long, now. Hope I've helped!

[Umberger]

Yeah...Ra- techniques do that too, only 3 monsters per attack...nothing big.

[Choja]

There's your explaination. To make a moot point (what?), compare Double Sabers to Swords from our fellow Figunners.

[Garnet_Moon]

Double Saber does impressive damage within 5 seconds.

It hits any 4 targets around you 6 times each. 6x4=24.

Now, though i'm a gimpy Newman F my hits do 120 per hit.

120x24=2,880

Imagine what a Beast M can do.

And that ain't with PA's folks, that's straight up melee.

[etlitch]

And that straight up melee animation, is semi slow, does'nt cause monsters to flinch and allows mobs to attack/cast spell/shoot at you. Not to mention that it's probaly cancelled by some knockdown move before you finish it. Hey, does'nt double saber only hit 2 things max per attack?

Beast M misses half of the attacks due to shit crappy ATA of beast and the crappy ATA of a double saber.

[Garnet_Moon]

No. Double Saber hits any 4 targets that are dumb enough to get inside your "kill zone". Believe me, I actually play a Figunner so I know what i'm talking about.

It's only canceled when you're knocked around in LL S or when it's blocked(damned Newman EVP...).

As for Beast M ata? Yeah, what about it? Everyone has their share of misses since we're all gimped at level 1 expert jobs. That'll change once they get a few levels, so not an issue. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Beast ATA isn't much of an issue unless you're not near the enemies level. Believe me. I played a Beast F Hunter for 50 levels, and starting on Fortefighter. Axe is horrible, but workable considering the gimped stats.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garnet_Moon on 2006-12-13 00:06 ]</font>

[Arieta]

On 2006-12-13 00:02, etlitch wrote:
And that straight up melee animation, is semi slow, does'nt cause monsters to flinch and allows mobs to attack/cast spell/shoot at you. Not to mention that it's probaly cancelled by some knockdown move before you finish it. Hey, does'nt double saber only hit 2 things max per attack?

Beast M misses half of the attacks due to shit crappy ATA of beast and the crappy ATA of a double saber.



Hahaha *wipes the tears away* That's so funny. Really though, you should actually play that race/class before knocking it down when you're clueless about it.

The animation isn't that slow, it's just as fast(slow?) as every other twin weapon out there, though it's probably a little slower then twin daggers, but not by much. It does hit 4 targets around unless they're directly behind you , and it has a fairly large range to it as well. Looks to be just a little shorter then sword range (tad shorter).

If you want to talk about slow weapons that'll get your ass kicked swinging them, you're probably thinking of axes. I swear it takes 6 seconds to use all 3 combos of the axe (normally melee).

Also Beasts don't miss that much. The only time I missed 50% of my attacks was when I was level 50/51 Figunner 1 doing LL S for the first couple times. But everyone missed a lot then (cept for Cast RA's) since our stats got gimped.

People really overestimate ATA. The only time you miss a ton is when you're fighting mobs that are really higher level then you or not playing S ranks smart. On any mission but LL S I have around 90% accuracy with my attacks using a double saber. On the S ranks though, I miss more then normal *IF* I play like a noob and attack the enemy from it's front. Get near to it's side and back angle, poof 100% Acc. Which isn't that hard to do when the first PA combo of DS's (which goes off very fast) does a knockdown.

[ViciousXUSMC]

yeah my weak fo... 400 dmg x 6 with gidiga = 2400 damge I can cast it about once per part of your combo so 3 times.

thats 7200 dmg :/

have a nice day http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Alisha]

if swords didnt have a hot limit they would put twin daggars to shame and would own the hell out of bosses with tornado break considering i can break 1k damage with hanzou.

[Kent]

If Swords didn't have this imposed limitation on them, they would, indeed, be a whole lot better. As it stands currently, though, they're one of the poorer choices for crowd control - the thing they were designed to do. Weapons like Twin Daggers are seen as better for this, because they can hit two targets three times in the first PA, instead of three targets one time... Which usually does end up in more overall damage.

For most other weapon types, though, the multiple target limitation doesn't really get in the way. For example, Spears, you'd almost never have three enemies in the attack range, anyway, unless they were very small enemies clumped together, or you were fighting something rather large.

The most annoying case, bar Swords, though, would be Ra- techniques... Which, the logic behind limiting them like that, isn't quite as secure, though it can be seen as making Gi- techniques more worthwhile.

[Vhex]

This goes away as you level the PA. I now have it on 30 and it hits every enemy I need it too, and the third hit is a huge tornado that also knocks all enemies down. Swords are very strong when you level them. The 3 target only restiction applies only to regular attacks and low level versions of the PA.

[Alpha-Hunter]

I use sword primarily (five on palette at all times) and they're not that bad if you use it right. gotta know the weapons range and start your combo early. get your one or two hits in and retreat to the back of the mob and spam 2 more. most times the attacks flinch an opponent making it easy to get your second attack in. attacking from the back after you initially attack is your main strategy. having nice armor is cool as well as you're going to take your lumos. just have to play smart and give a few lumps back. But it's def a weapon reserved for those that use weapons for preference. and would rather use swrods. I'm swrod guy from way back to PSO DC. ona good team spamming sword PA are a great help. especially from behind.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alpha-Hunter on 2006-12-13 07:16 ]</font>

[Wheatpenny]

Sword is a good alternative for someone who wants a "Big ATP" weapon and doesen't want the slowness of the axe.

[Reiichi]

They really SHOULD have the sword hit more than just 3 monsters and 3-3-4 with the PA. As of now I only pull it out if I want to really scatter the monsters.

Getting 3 monsters let alone two to consistenly line up (since you do take big steps swinging that sucker) is difficult and time consuming. Locking on is a nono, and the angle of attack isn't that large as I'd hope for with a sword.

But... you have the double saber! Which attacks about as fast as a twin saber but hits at least 180 degrees in front of you and hits tons of monsters. The first attack hits twice, then once, then thrice, and I can PA anytime (only 15 pp and recharges 4 a tick) to knock 2 monsters onto their feet (read no knockback or knockup, just knockdown) so I can continue slashing away. I also take a few small steps when I combo with the DS, and can practically 'circle' a monster while comboing it since I don't have to face the monster directly with lockon.

[Genobee]

Yea it only hits 3 targets but the 3rd Combo on the PA hits like 4 or 5 targets, but I think the axe should hit 2 people it's kinda awkward how it only hits one person unless you use the PA.

[Ronzeru]

lol Areita, wasn't I just partying with you on the 360 this morning? If so, Arieta's seen what I can do with a doublesaber in hand. In anycase, if you are seeing a constant stream of 0s, you're prolly a beast. Fighgunners are sexy as Humans and Casts. Give a Cast and a Human a Doublesaber, and watch sparks fly. These things hit 3 points. Attack things with multiple points with your full PA, and you can kill a mob you're solo'n faster than a group of 2-3 others can take out another. I've been doing this for the past 3 days. ^_^

And DING! DoubleSaber 27! 3 more levels to go baby.

[Ronzeru]

Also again, if you wanna hit more mobs, be a human or newmen, and get a crea weapon. That's what their for. But luckily, Creas are cheap because no one wants them. They see the ATP on'em, and don't wanna go anywhere near'em.

[Yoruichi]

From the extreme test, axe vs dual daggers, that huge atp won't be as helpful as the high accuracy +1 extra hit per swing on crea. I dunno what the formula for ATP is but it seems severly broken and the end all for damage is weapon affinity.

[Ronzeru]

Don't tell others that tho. (ATP = you can defeat god) = the mindframes of most people.

[Alisha]

i dont know what the PA pattern for axe is but i know that swords can infact out damage any other weapon with the possible exception of spears. sword will get a substantially larger benefit from elemental %'s and in the case of tornado break the pa damage multiplies on the second and 3rd string of the combo. theres a thread about this in gameplay discussion.

[Ronzeru]

That is, until you use a DS

[Ryoki]

On 2006-12-13 00:02, etlitch wrote:
And that straight up melee animation, is semi slow, does'nt cause monsters to flinch and allows mobs to attack/cast spell/shoot at you. Not to mention that it's probaly cancelled by some knockdown move before you finish it. Hey, does'nt double saber only hit 2 things max per attack?

Beast M misses half of the attacks due to shit crappy ATA of beast and the crappy ATA of a double saber.

Wow, you can go straight to hell. I make almost all my hits. You don't have any room to talk, do you have a beast figunner male? No? Well then, STFU.

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