Do us Forces get a knock back move? [Archive]

Sotaka

Dec 13, 2006, 09:53 AM

On 2006-12-13 06:46, Mystil wrote:

On 2006-12-13 05:50, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Hunters have them(annoying) and ranger have them with the grenade laucher. What about us? Do we get anything with this effect? I want to get back at other classes.

Oh please, be sure to stay away from me then cause I'd have the pleasure in trying to get you killed with your attitude.

Worthless force.

Don't you think "Worthless" is a little harsh? I understand your distaste with someone who's angry at the melee's doing their job, but it still seems a little extreme to blatantly insult them like that.

Regardless, I think Knock back is a good thing. The fact that it divides the enemies and prevents attacks from multiple angels protects not only your Hunter, but also your Force whose in there to support said hunter. I just hope the OP realizes that and takes advantage of the fact that there are good hunters making it easier to fight.

Mystil

Dec 13, 2006, 10:12 AM

I am just sick and fucking tired of this bullshit. And I will acknowledge any form of warning I recieve in regards to my post. I took a stand and I stand by it.

Auronp

Dec 13, 2006, 10:12 AM

...Yea i dunno what dude's problem up there is, but i can understand where your coming from. When i use my force (which is somewhat rare) i does get annoying every now and then to use a spell and have a hunter knock the mob out of range at the last minute. However giving forces a knock-w/e spell wont resolve this. From a hunters view, it reduces the damage we have to take since it seperates the enemys and knocks their asses on the floor.

MORB

Dec 13, 2006, 10:24 AM

Sorry if knock back makes your life harder, but often crowd control is essential for survival. Enemies scattered all over the place are not ideal for melee classes to achieve big DPS either, mind you. But sometimes we just need to get out of the mess.

There are two ways of doing things: every class can be obnoxious and demand that the other classes do things in a certain way and don't do it in another, or we can rely on them to know what to do and when.

One is obviously going to end up with the party splitting up, and the other one with a party that works together as a team.
Of course, relying on others to know what to do doesn't work if they are idiots, but in that case, demanding things won't work either. You can't fix idiocy.

[ This Message was edited by: MORB on 2006-12-13 07:24 ]

omegapirate2k

Dec 13, 2006, 10:26 AM

I kinda agree with Mystil (not the worhtless part, never played with you, I won't judge) on the fact that most hunters love forces, I always try my best to protect the forces in my party. I use the knockback of my PA's to smash enemies away from my teammates for the most part.

But I'm sure you'll get something, 36+ different spells eventually...

Sychosis

Dec 13, 2006, 10:34 AM

Knockback is great when used in moderation. Knocking back Poltys because you can is counter productive.

Akaimizu

Dec 13, 2006, 10:43 AM

As a Ranger-class player, my own preference in my role, is to find ways to stun the monsters not so much in knockback.

No doubt, knockback is a nice move, in moderation (like one of those Bombs in a vertical shooter). Especially for cases where you clear enemies in a tense situation when people are getting flocked.

The hunters do it as a means to protect all the ranged classes as monsters love to flock those. No real team-player will use knockback just as a means to screw with forces. If I were anybody, I wouldn't even ask for moves specifically made to do non-team-player actions. If everybody is hitting the monsters, everybody achieves maximum efficiency, gets the highest amount of points distributed, and spends the least amount of money to fully prepare for the next engagement.

If I remember right, there's even a technique that exists, that draws the monsters in. (Not online yet)

[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-13 07:44 ]

princejake2

Dec 13, 2006, 11:00 AM

I use knockback so I don't die. I usually get swarmed and without knockback, FO or no, I'd die. Fast. Now would you rather have a bit of a tough time hitting with your spells, or would you rather get a lower rank because I got owned due to not knocking back?

Sexy_Raine

Dec 13, 2006, 12:19 PM

Guess what? Hunters aren't needed in a party. A ranger/force party can pretty much do the same for a succesful S-rank. That shit was uncalled for.

Meh, hunters are hardly needed to dominate a mission.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:22 ]

Akaimizu

Dec 13, 2006, 12:37 PM

As for me. I'm all for combat with all 3 major roles of classes. My character is actually dressed for Hunter support, while the hunters help keep monsters off me. I like to think of us rangers as quick status ailment figures, in some cases, monster/attack stunners. Most of us can't keep a whole group of monsters at bay, for very long, unless we're in a case where we're individually overpowered for the monsters of a certain level.

Like Forces, we don't like to get hit much. It's almost as dangerous for us. So I notice that we run a lot, unless there's hunters there to give the monsters a good melee. Then we can concentrate on our support roles with impunity. The hunters wont have to knock back because we're doing the job of saving their hides, for them.

Of course, you might be dealing with either bad hunter players, or people who don't understand when another player is going to cover for them; or they simply don't trust them.

It all basically comes down to a breakdown of understanding and communication. Anybody that's been in good groups, have seen the effects of everybody working together and Jelling. That equals major pain for the monsters, to the point that it's almost funny to watch. Last time I saw something like that, I was with Ronzeru in a fairly full party.

I remember saying something of the like, "Oh ho! What a Slaughter!!!"
I think he responded saying, "You've been playing with MayLee too much."
I then answered, (because I was a force, at the time), "No. That's just me. You should see me with Twin Gunnies in my hands."

omegapirate2k

Dec 13, 2006, 12:37 PM

On 2006-12-13 09:19, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Guess what? Hunters aren't needed in a party. A ranger/force party can pretty much do the same for a succesful S-rank. That shit was uncalled for.

Meh, hunters are hardly needed to dominate a mission.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:22 ]

Well, if you want to take that approach, a party of hunters/forces and hunters/rangers could do just as well, or even just a party of all force, ranger or hunter. It really just depends on the players.

Sotaka

Dec 13, 2006, 12:42 PM

On 2006-12-13 09:19, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Guess what? Hunters aren't needed in a party. A ranger/force party can pretty much do the same for a succesful S-rank. That shit was uncalled for.

Meh, hunters are hardly needed to dominate a mission.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:22 ]

Edited because I was being too harsh, (Where the heck is that delete button when you need it?)

Although I do believe that this is a very disgusting comment.

[ This Message was edited by: Sotaka on 2006-12-13 09:44 ]

Yoiyami

Dec 13, 2006, 12:43 PM

On 2006-12-13 06:53, Sotaka wrote:

On 2006-12-13 06:46, Mystil wrote:

On 2006-12-13 05:50, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Hunters have them(annoying) and ranger have them with the grenade laucher. What about us? Do we get anything with this effect? I want to get back at other classes.

Oh please, be sure to stay away from me then cause I'd have the pleasure in trying to get you killed with your attitude.

Worthless force.

Don't you think "Worthless" is a little harsh? I understand your distaste with someone who's angry at the melee's doing their job, but it still seems a little extreme to blatantly insult them like that.

You understand? Really? I don't see where he's coming from at all or how he's even ontopic. Absolutely nothing in Raine's post warrented a personal attack like that.

I'LL certainly be sure to stay away from you, just because you appear to be someone I'd never want to even pretend to put up with. Ever.

In any case, a knock-back spell would be nice, but technics have other things going for them which is still nice anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif Although, since I've noticed that most hunters don't bother with keeping monsters off forces (while they're trying to heal noless), I'm starting to think a knock-back spell is almost necessary...

Sexy_Raine

Dec 13, 2006, 12:44 PM

On 2006-12-13 09:37, omegapirate2k wrote:

On 2006-12-13 09:19, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Guess what? Hunters aren't needed in a party. A ranger/force party can pretty much do the same for a succesful S-rank. That shit was uncalled for.

Meh, hunters are hardly needed to dominate a mission.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:22 ]

Well, if you want to take that approach, a party of hunters/forces and hunters/rangers could do just as well, or even just a party of all force, ranger or hunter. It really just depends on the players.

I completely agree with your statement. I'm sorry for my harsh attitude(it's my nature), everyone plays a certain role in battle. I enjoy my class, and won't change it for anything, but not everyone appreicates us.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:46 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:47 ]

MayLee

Dec 13, 2006, 12:46 PM

Yeah, because I'm tired of being the one knocked back. I really hate when they scatter everywhere, though. Where's my Gadiga. >=D

Sexy_Raine

Dec 13, 2006, 12:51 PM

On 2006-12-13 09:43, Yoiyami wrote:

On 2006-12-13 06:53, Sotaka wrote:

On 2006-12-13 06:46, Mystil wrote:

On 2006-12-13 05:50, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Hunters have them(annoying) and ranger have them with the grenade laucher. What about us? Do we get anything with this effect? I want to get back at other classes.

Oh please, be sure to stay away from me then cause I'd have the pleasure in trying to get you killed with your attitude.

Worthless force.

Don't you think "Worthless" is a little harsh? I understand your distaste with someone who's angry at the melee's doing their job, but it still seems a little extreme to blatantly insult them like that.

You understand? Really? I don't see where he's coming from at all or how he's even ontopic. Absolutely nothing in Raine's post warrented a personal attack like that.

I'LL certainly be sure to stay away from you, just because you appear to be someone I'd never want to even pretend to put up with. Ever.

In any case, a knock-back spell would be nice, but technics have other things going for them which is still nice anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif Although, since I've noticed that most hunters don't bother with keeping monsters off forces (while they're trying to heal noless), I'm starting to think a knock-back spell is almost necessary...

Thank you. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
A simple response is all I wanted. Instead I get attacked. I just ask if we get a spell that does something like that's all. All classes should have it in some form IMO.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:53 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:54 ]

Sotaka

Dec 13, 2006, 12:57 PM

On 2006-12-13 09:51, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2006-12-13 09:43, Yoiyami wrote:

On 2006-12-13 06:53, Sotaka wrote:

On 2006-12-13 06:46, Mystil wrote:

On 2006-12-13 05:50, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Hunters have them(annoying) and ranger have them with the grenade laucher. What about us? Do we get anything with this effect? I want to get back at other classes.

Oh please, be sure to stay away from me then cause I'd have the pleasure in trying to get you killed with your attitude.

Worthless force.

Don't you think "Worthless" is a little harsh? I understand your distaste with someone who's angry at the melee's doing their job, but it still seems a little extreme to blatantly insult them like that.

You understand? Really? I don't see where he's coming from at all or how he's even ontopic. Absolutely nothing in Raine's post warrented a personal attack like that.

I'LL certainly be sure to stay away from you, just because you appear to be someone I'd never want to even pretend to put up with. Ever.

In any case, a knock-back spell would be nice, but technics have other things going for them which is still nice anyway. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif Although, since I've noticed that most hunters don't bother with keeping monsters off forces (while they're trying to heal noless), I'm starting to think a knock-back spell is almost necessary...

Thank you. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif
A simple response all I wanted. Instead I get attacked. I just ask if we get a spell that does something like that's all. All classes should have it in some form IMO.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:53 ]

What you neglect to think is how other people can interpret the comment. "Get Back" can be taken as "Why should I have to be the only one to deal with others knocking enemies around? I want to get back at them for this."

And I've seen some hunters taking abuse. A lot of abuse. I don't think they deserve it for even a second - but Force's can be manipulative. That's why I think such a comment can produce such a response. It's perfectly understandable, in my eyes.

MayLee

Dec 13, 2006, 12:59 PM

Forces should have a knock back attack. I've been surrounded by too many enemies in my days. It's not fun.

Akaimizu

Dec 13, 2006, 01:03 PM

Funny enough. As a Guntecher, we don't get them either. Normally, the other jobs are to keep the monsters off the ones that don't. Monsters seem to have hate for Rangers, and definite Hate for Forces. I think they see a bit of both for Guntechers, so I see myself as the target of anger, a lot.

PaladinRPG

Dec 13, 2006, 02:17 PM

For what it's worth, I always will retarget on any enemies that attack my Forces or Rangers. To not do so is just being inefficient and plain selfish as Hunter. This is probably why every party I've been in so far always invites me along for more. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

omegapirate2k

Dec 13, 2006, 02:29 PM

On 2006-12-13 09:44, Sexy_Raine wrote:
I completely agree with your statement. I'm sorry for my harsh attitude(it's my nature), everyone plays a certain role in battle. I enjoy my class, and won't change it for anything, but not everyone appreicates us.

Ah no problem, to each their own...

Kanore

Dec 13, 2006, 02:41 PM

Forces don't need a knockback attack... It's better to keep them all together and hit them with Ra and Gi spells >_>

Yoruichi

Dec 13, 2006, 02:42 PM

I'm confused you want an ability you deem is anoying...It does sound like another spoiled force post. I'm happy someone stated you do get a similar move but hey as a hunter type I'd like level 4 status affliction Ice+Beast = no racial weaknesses.

tfshadow

Dec 13, 2006, 03:21 PM

It's a symbiont relationship.

If a say, level 25 Hunter is soloing through Relics B, then a level 25 Force joins, there's a certain breath of relief. Just the same as the other way around.

Rangers are like the wild card. Add rangers to anything and you just make it THAT much more awesome.

Spellbinder

Dec 13, 2006, 03:22 PM

Hm... skipping through all the unnecessary arguing and debating over hunter and knockback, I'll go back to the original question since there is a little more to it than that.

Do Forces have knockback? Yes... and no.

Do Forces have knockback in the sense of flinging enemies clear across a room? No

Do Forces have knockback in the sense of causing enemies to stagger, leaving them unable to hit you? Yes

Two of the Technics US players will receive in a future update, Damubarta and Damudiga, cause enemies to stagger, or flinch, on contact. In essence, it creates a cycle of staggering and walking back into the line of fire for the duration of the cast. (ie. Damubarta alone is enough for a Force/Fortecher to solo S Rank Linear Line)

Do Forces have knockback in the sense of simply causes enemies to either fall over, or get knocked into the air but not travel distances? Yes

A new line of Technics being revealed online this week for JP Players, the Nosu- Technic series, are attacks that when activated, home in on a target and upon contact and/or detonation cause the enemy to either be temporarily flung upward if they're light enough, or simply fall over if they're a larger enemy. Keep in mind, however, that some larger enemies may be immune to this knocking over.

And as Sychosis said earlier:

Knockback is great when used in moderation.

Sexy_Raine

Dec 13, 2006, 03:28 PM

On 2006-12-13 12:22, Spellbinder wrote:
Hm... skipping through all the unnecessary arguing and debating over hunter and knockback, I'll go back to the original question since there is a little more to it than that.

Do Forces have knockback? Yes... and no.

Do Forces have knockback in the sense of flinging enemies clear across a room? No

Do Forces have knockback in the sense of causing enemies to stagger, leaving them unable to hit you? Yes

Two of the Technics US players will receive in a future update, Damubarta and Damudiga, cause enemies to stagger, or flinch, on contact. In essence, it creates a cycle of staggering and walking back into the line of fire for the duration of the cast. (ie. Damubarta alone is enough for a Force/Fortecher to solo S Rank Linear Line)

Do Forces have knockback in the sense of simply causes enemies to either fall over, or get knocked into the air but not travel distances? Yes

A new line of Technics being revealed online this week for JP Players, the Nosu- Technic series, are attacks that when activated, home in on a target and upon contact and/or detonation cause the enemy to either be temporarily flung upward if they're light enough, or simply fall over if they're a larger enemy. Keep in mind, however, that some larger enemies may be immune to this knocking over.

And as Sychosis said earlier:

Knockback is great when used in moderation.

Awesome, thank you for the info.

l0c0dantes

Dec 13, 2006, 03:33 PM

Im not sure how well it works in PSU, but in PSO using Rabarta when your getting mobbed was a great way to freeze a bunch and get to a safe place to heal. Not quite knock back, but close

PSO rabarta = PSU gibarta, right?

Akaimizu

Dec 13, 2006, 03:38 PM

Been thinking about having one of those for my Guntecher, just for the times I get swarmed. I wouldn't use it as a primary means of attack or anything, but it's just a nice, to have. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wink.gif

[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-13 12:41 ]

Randomness

Dec 13, 2006, 03:39 PM

On 2006-12-13 12:33, l0c0dantes wrote:
Im not sure how well it works in PSU, but in PSO using Rabarta when your getting mobbed was a great way to freeze a bunch and get to a safe place to heal. Not quite knock back, but close

PSO rabarta = PSU gibarta, right?

All the Gi-techs create an effect like the PSO Ra-zonde or Ra-barta, hitting up to 6 enemies in a certain radius. The radius is a bit small at first though, but at level 11 grows to a comfortable size. Excluding Gidiga, the Gi-techs all apply the associated SE at level 1 for 1-10, 2 for 11-20, and 3 for 21+

So yes, Gibarta is a very similar move to PSO
s rabarta.

Cause_I_Own_U

Dec 13, 2006, 04:03 PM

On 2006-12-13 09:19, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Guess what? Hunters aren't needed in a party. A ranger/force party can pretty much do the same for a succesful S-rank. That shit was uncalled for.

Meh, hunters are hardly needed to dominate a mission.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:22 ]

We'll just bring a couple wartechers along, not a true force nor a true hunter so they are neutral in this conflict =p

Oh and 2 wartechers 4 hunters would own the living crap out of a 6 fortetecher group in speed and effeicency of completing missions

Yoruichi

Dec 13, 2006, 05:07 PM

Wartechers were actually hunters at some point so they wouldn't be so upity http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Randomness

Dec 13, 2006, 05:11 PM

On 2006-12-13 13:03, Cause_I_Own_U wrote:

On 2006-12-13 09:19, Sexy_Raine wrote:
Guess what? Hunters aren't needed in a party. A ranger/force party can pretty much do the same for a succesful S-rank. That shit was uncalled for.

Meh, hunters are hardly needed to dominate a mission.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 09:22 ]

We'll just bring a couple wartechers along, not a true force nor a true hunter so they are neutral in this conflict =p

Oh and 2 wartechers 4 hunters would own the living crap out of a 6 fortetecher group in speed and effeicency of completing missions

Depends on if the fortechers treat it like c-mode and split up.

-Shimarisu-

Dec 13, 2006, 07:12 PM

On 2006-12-13 09:19, Sexy_Raine wrote:
ranger/force party can pretty much do the same for a succesful S-rank. That shit was uncalled for.

Hunters are NEEDED for brute force, for efficiency. If you cannot see this you are as arrogant as the people calling forces worthless.

You go fight an A rank Bil de Vear with nothing but forces and rangers and come back with that argument.

Or buffed up Vandas.

Or hell, any area in Moa, which is the best "cooperative play" area in the game.

My credentials, in case you want to argue:

Force level 10.
Hunter level 10 (x 2 characters).
Ranger level 5 (x 2 characters).

Guntecher level 2.
Fortefighter level 1 (x 2 characters).
Fighgunner level 3.
Wartecher level 3.

I play every class, OK I play every one but force to a large degree, but I still had a level 10 force smacking the ceiling of job exp every game for a fortnight.

We need hunters. NEED them. For fast damage, so you don't get excruciatingly bored of firing at one monster hundreds of times.
We need forces, for nuking and support. And for melee resist monsters.
We need rangers, for status and knocking things out of the sky. And for damaging flying monsters.

BTW guntecher is the best support class, just throwing that out there.

VanHalen

Dec 13, 2006, 07:14 PM

i know you get a knock up tech nosudiga my favorite tech on extra mode though im a hunter(btw i dont like that thing you said about hunters)

AnamanaAU

Dec 13, 2006, 07:19 PM

I thought forces get the bonus that lets them whine about everything the other classes can do?

Hunters & Rangers knockback
Forces don't heal half the time and leave the other classes to use up their mates.

I've learnt not to rely on forces for support.

Sexy_Raine

Dec 13, 2006, 07:28 PM

On 2006-12-13 16:12, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2006-12-13 09:19, Sexy_Raine wrote:
ranger/force party can pretty much do the same for a succesful S-rank. That shit was uncalled for.

Hunters are NEEDED for brute force, for efficiency. If you cannot see this you are as arrogant as the people calling forces worthless.

You go fight an A rank Bil de Vear with nothing but forces and rangers and come back with that argument.

Or buffed up Vandas.

Or hell, any area in Moa, which is the best "cooperative play" area in the game.

My credentials, in case you want to argue:

Force level 10.
Hunter level 10 (x 2 characters).
Ranger level 5 (x 2 characters).

Guntecher level 2.
Fortefighter level 1 (x 2 characters).
Fighgunner level 3.
Wartecher level 3.

I play every class, OK I play every one but force to a large degree, but I still had a level 10 force smacking the ceiling of job exp every game for a fortnight.

We need hunters. NEED them. For fast damage, so you don't get excruciatingly bored of firing at one monster hundreds of times.
We need forces, for nuking and support. And for melee resist monsters.
We need rangers, for status and knocking things out of the sky. And for damaging flying monsters.

BTW guntecher is the best support class, just throwing that out there.

Um no, we don't need them. Sorry.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 16:28 ]

Randomness

Dec 13, 2006, 07:33 PM

On 2006-12-13 16:28, Sexy_Raine wrote:

On 2006-12-13 16:12, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2006-12-13 09:19, Sexy_Raine wrote:
ranger/force party can pretty much do the same for a succesful S-rank. That shit was uncalled for.

Hunters are NEEDED for brute force, for efficiency. If you cannot see this you are as arrogant as the people calling forces worthless.

You go fight an A rank Bil de Vear with nothing but forces and rangers and come back with that argument.

Or buffed up Vandas.

Or hell, any area in Moa, which is the best "cooperative play" area in the game.

My credentials, in case you want to argue:

Force level 10.
Hunter level 10 (x 2 characters).
Ranger level 5 (x 2 characters).

Guntecher level 2.
Fortefighter level 1 (x 2 characters).
Fighgunner level 3.
Wartecher level 3.

I play every class, OK I play every one but force to a large degree, but I still had a level 10 force smacking the ceiling of job exp every game for a fortnight.

We need hunters. NEED them. For fast damage, so you don't get excruciatingly bored of firing at one monster hundreds of times.
We need forces, for nuking and support. And for melee resist monsters.
We need rangers, for status and knocking things out of the sky. And for damaging flying monsters.

BTW guntecher is the best support class, just throwing that out there.

Um no, we don't need them. Sorry.

[ This Message was edited by: Sexy_Raine on 2006-12-13 16:28 ]

Its really a symbiotic relationship. Hunters without forces burn up mates, forces burn up PP much faster without a hunter. Rangers, however, can serve in place of hunters to a degree, assuming they're using group weapons, such as shotguns or grenade launchers.

Actually, a ranger with a grenade launcher basically lines up all the enemies against the wall as targets!

Alisha

Dec 13, 2006, 08:00 PM

forces dont need knockback. theres nothing stoping you from using rising strike if you get surrounded,also i doubt its available online yet but nosudiga has a knockup effect that can also stun/sleep?

Genobee

Dec 13, 2006, 08:03 PM

On 2006-12-13 16:19, JubeiSaotome wrote:
I thought forces get the bonus that lets them whine about everything the other classes can do?

Hunters & Rangers knockback
Forces don't heal half the time and leave the other classes to use up their mates.

I've learnt not to rely on forces for support.

QFT

DTrunks16

Dec 13, 2006, 09:09 PM

w00t for Wartechers! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

*Is a Beast Wartecher >_>

icewyrm

Dec 13, 2006, 10:12 PM

Knockup seems more useful than knockback... if you just fling them up in the air you disrupt them and stop them all from attacking a single target/at once, without wrecking any AoE dmg dealers in the party. It's useful if hunters or rangers in the party can keep monsters off your support, but the main thing is just to stick together; if a support force has to run across the path of a dozen melee happy critters just to heal your sorry ass, you should just pop mates and save the trouble. Of course if you're all in a group and half of you get frozen/stunned/silenced etc then you'll be in a bit of a pickle :/ If you have a good support force and you stick with them, you should almost never have to pop a mate. If you get seperated or your force is in trouble, they may not be able to heal you in time.

Off topic but, I see posts pretty often where players who primarily play offensive force characters brag about their damage (often in a somewhat defensive manner), but I don't understand why? Just looking at the sheer HP -> PP usage (in the case of combat PP for taking HP away, in the case of healing PP for giving it back), and AoE size of resta/reverser/etc vs targeted combat spells, it's obvious that support is a forces strongest talent. Theres nothing wrong with playing a combat force but I do not believe the damage is ever comparable to hunters, except in very specialised situations. On the other hand, the quality and quantity of support can easily make or break a party. Heck, anyone can do damage, and against high level monsters its gonna take awhile to kill them no matter what you are.

Diasuke-san

Dec 13, 2006, 10:24 PM

On 2006-12-13 19:12, icewyrm wrote:
Knockup seems more useful than knockback... if you just fling them up in the air you disrupt them and stop them all from attacking a single target/at once, without wrecking any AoE dmg dealers in the party. It's useful if hunters or rangers in the party can keep monsters off your support, but the main thing is just to stick together; if a support force has to run across the path of a dozen melee happy critters just to heal your sorry ass, you should just pop mates and save the trouble. Of course if you're all in a group and half of you get frozen/stunned/silenced etc then you'll be in a bit of a pickle :/ If you have a good support force and you stick with them, you should almost never have to pop a mate. If you get seperated or your force is in trouble, they may not be able to heal you in time.

Off topic but, I see posts pretty often where players who primarily play offensive force characters brag about their damage (often in a somewhat defensive manner), but I don't understand why? Just looking at the sheer HP -> PP usage (in the case of combat PP for taking HP away, in the case of healing PP for giving it back), and AoE size of resta/reverser/etc vs targeted combat spells, it's obvious that support is a forces strongest talent. Theres nothing wrong with playing a combat force but I do not believe the damage is ever comparable to hunters, except in very specialised situations. On the other hand, the quality and quantity of support can easily make or break a party. Heck, anyone can do damage, and against high level monsters its gonna take awhile to kill them no matter what you are.

with my forces I say that support comes first then damage. Becuase i believe that without the rest of your party being buffed then you arent at your strongest because basically your damage is the boost that you give them. So in the end suppoert is truly a forces best talent. But they arent to bad at combat either

DarkSeph

Dec 13, 2006, 10:29 PM

Each Character has different benefits/advantages. Each Class is the same way. Mix and Match....then Drink!

I don't understand what is to get upset about, just switch your class if you don't like what you are currently specializing in....Yes..No?

VelosofLight

Dec 13, 2006, 10:30 PM

I prefer knock-over instead of knock-back or knock-up. They're pretty much still there, you can hit 'em as normal, but they're disabled. Anyway, um, in my opinion, Rangers are the only non-essential Class. You need Hunters to take the damage and hold off the mobs while doing the fast damage, while Forces do big damage but slowly and heall/buff the Hunters. Rangers are helpful for applying negative status effects and making mobs flinch alot, but you could really do without them if you had to. (I'm a Ranger, mostly.)

Anyway, learn to work together. To everyone said said that some other class sucks, well, I hope you have to solo for the rest of your life. Learn to work together properly, or don't work together at all.

VanHalen

Dec 13, 2006, 10:40 PM

all classes equally suck and they need to party with people of other classes to make them not suck

VelosofLight

Dec 13, 2006, 10:45 PM

On 2006-12-13 19:40, VanHalen wrote:
all classes equally suck and they need to party with people of other classes to make them not suck

Nah, I'd say that's how FFXI was, but in PSU, you really can solo for a very, very long time. I guess, though, if you're in an area way too tough for you to do alone, yes, your class sucks and you need teammates.

nefarious

Dec 13, 2006, 10:50 PM

On 2006-12-13 19:45, VelosofLight wrote:

On 2006-12-13 19:40, VanHalen wrote:
all classes equally suck and they need to party with people of other classes to make them not suck

Nah, I'd say that's how FFXI was, but in PSU, you really can solo for a very, very long time. I guess, though, if you're in an area way too tough for you to do alone, yes, your class sucks and you need teammates.

In FFXI anyone worth thier salt could solo with any job at any level...

Granted it was utterly pointless, but, none the less, possible.

On topic.

My force friend LOVES my grenade laucher! =3

He thinks the knockback is super helpful.

If you were a team player, when you went and played with other people, you'd make an effort to learn to play WITH them not just near them.

Gazette

Dec 13, 2006, 10:51 PM

On 2006-12-13 19:50, nefarious wrote:

In FFXI any NINJA worth thier salt could solo with any mob at any level...

Fixed that for ya.
<3 ninja

nefarious

Dec 13, 2006, 10:58 PM

On 2006-12-13 19:51, Gazette wrote:

On 2006-12-13 19:50, nefarious wrote:

In FFXI any NINJA worth thier salt could solo with any mob at any level...

Fixed that for ya.
<3 ninja

75thf
66smn
58nin
39war
37whm
27rng
13brd

All jobs I've solo'd something EM or higher on.

I can do solo chains on thief fighting Tough mobs, smn can kite virtually anything and regain MP while they're at it, ninja can solo purly by virtue of thier enfeebling spells (which is why I never bothered to level it more, it was boring and expensive), Warrior can solo if you bother to buy evasion gear, I solo'd chains on Tough mobs in Altep while LFG (<3 bloody bolts, but solo is solo), Whm can solo if you have defense and aquaveil (expecially /nin), rng is sinfully easy with sleeping bolts and bloody bolts, and brd? I kited an IT lizard in the dunes with Requiem, got it down to 13% before it depopped.

Anything can solo.

Anyone, anywhere.

Player skill > Class > Gear

Kent

Dec 13, 2006, 11:16 PM

People really need to stop bitching, de-wad their panties, and think about things.

Yes, people over-using, or misusing knockback attacks can get annoying. Nowhere near as annoying as people who think "ME, ME, ME, if you don't play exactly the way I think is right, you fail at life, suck at PSU, and your whole class is worthless!"

Fact of the matter is, everyone plays a little differently. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you can't adapt and adjust to your teammates, just as much as you can your enemies, you really should rethink general interaction with forms of intelligent life - this is the very foundation of a good team-player.

"But I shouldn't have to adjust to my teammates! THEY should have to adjust to ME, because THEY suck!" Get your head out of your ass; it's a team effort. You're just as much of a team member, as anyone else is.

This doesn't even require you to change what equipment you have, just how you use it. Observe them, and think two steps ahead of your enemies and your allies - this is not hard to do, after a single run with someone. Once you know how your teammates work with the enemies at hand, you can silently adjust your combat tactics to fit the situation.

If you can't do that, stay away from any form of team-based game. It's the most basic of teamwork skills. Seriously.