Guntechers are better support characters than Fortetechers.

[-Shimarisu-]

Discuss.

[Kent]

Considering that Guntecher was seemingly designed with pure support in mind...

/obvious

[AeraLure]

Depnds on the Guntecher and the Fortetecher involved, ne?

[McFresh_Bot]

I wish not to discuss.

[juno-6]

some fortechers dedicate themselves to nuclear obliteration whereas if guntechers wanted total offensive power they woulda went fortegunner so yea....agreed.

[-Shimarisu-]

You people are no fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[AeraLure]

I am too! lol http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I do think a party of 6 Cast Guntechers should be organized and turned loose. If only because it could be done.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AeraLure on 2006-12-14 20:46 ]</font>

[Sychosis]

On 2006-12-14 20:43, -Shimarisu- wrote:
You people are no fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Ok.

Level 10 techs?! Are you fucking serious? Go back to kindergarten and learn to count you moron.

Happy?

[Nani-chan]

Sounds like flame bait too me.

Both Guntecher and Fortetecher will change when buffs/debuffs come out. If it is required to have certain buffs/debuffs, then I guess either GT or FT should have them.

Maybe Shiftal/Zodial at the minimum? I dunno..
wand 1 shifta/resta
wand 2 zodial/reverser
maybe?


Now if only hunters would come into resta 10 range when they needed healing and use mates during bosses everything would be great.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2006-12-14 20:49 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2006-12-14 20:50 ]</font>

[Maskim]

Guntechers are better support characters than Fortetechers.

Word.

A support jack of all trades, where as fortetechers are, albeit very, skilled in just one area of support.

Guntechers rock...now more people go play them to support my fighgunner ass. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Numnuttz]

guntecher you say? what is the point of a guntecher? its funny that i have yet to see even one.

[-Ryuki-]

A ForteFighter is better support than GunTechers.

[juno-6]

On 2006-12-14 20:45, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:43, -Shimarisu- wrote:
You people are no fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Ok.

Level 10 techs?! Are you fucking serious? Go back to kindergarten and learn to count you moron.

Happy?



YAY! im in!


OMFG wtf's the point to lv 9999 resta if you wont even use it on a player until they're at 2 HP!?!?

At least in kindergarden we learn to SHARE.

[AeraLure]

On 2006-12-14 20:47, Nani-chan wrote:
Both Guntecher and Fortetecher will change when buffs/debuffs come out. If it is required to have certain buffs/debuffs, then I guess either GT or FT should have them.


I see the two of them working together very well in an organized party when buffs and debuffs are released. Maybe the Fortetecher is in charge of pre-battle buffs, the Guntecher of mid-battle debuffs and status effect placement obviously, the Fortetecher of major healing needs and possibly some nuking, the Guntecher of combat medic sort of heals. They could both Reverser as able. They're a very good support team no matter how they mix up the work load.

[AeraLure]

On 2006-12-14 20:48, Maskim wrote:

Guntechers rock...now more people go play them to support my fighgunner ass. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



I have an almighty Cast Guntecher lol. Sort of lying in wait though for buffs and debuffs. Kind of like the idea of a Newman Guntecher too, but Treya is so not going to give up any spaces for guns. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Sychosis]

On 2006-12-14 20:51, juno-6 wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:45, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:43, -Shimarisu- wrote:
You people are no fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Ok.

Level 10 techs?! Are you fucking serious? Go back to kindergarten and learn to count you moron.

Happy?



YAY! im in!


OMFG wtf's the point to lv 9999 resta if you wont even use it on a player until they're at 2 HP!?!?

At least in kindergarden we learn to SHARE.



Piss off jerk face. You have mates use 'em! If you want real support (ie someone useful!) get a fortetecher in your party. Don't settle for some half assed BS pansy cake guntecher.

"Ooh, look at me, I can cast resta! But only if you're 5 inches away or closer!"

[Maskim]

On 2006-12-14 20:58, Sychosis wrote:

Piss off jerk face. You have mates use 'em! If you want real support (ie someone useful!) get a fortetecher in your party. Don't settle for some half assed BS pansy cake guntecher.

"Ooh, look at me, I can cast resta! But only if you're 5 inches away or closer! Luckily, unlike a fortetecher, I actually have the hp to be able to do so, if needed, and and can get close enough to drop a moon atomizer, resta, reverser, or whatever the situation calls for! Also, since I'm a guntecher, I can keep an eye on my fortetecher buddy too, blocking enemies that slip past the hunters with some status effect point blank rounds to the base of their muthafukin skulls!"



I noticed you left off the rest of that quote, so I finished it for you.

[Choja]

On 2006-12-14 20:51, juno-6 wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:45, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:43, -Shimarisu- wrote:
You people are no fun. :(



Ok.

Level 10 techs?! Are you fucking serious? Go back to kindergarten and learn to count you moron.

Happy?



YAY! im in!


OMFG wtf's the point to lv 9999 resta if you wont even use it on a player until they're at 2 HP!?!?

At least in kindergarden we learn to SHARE.

Cute equates to I'm going to kick your ass.

EDIT: ONCE AGAIN, Shift + Enter = Post.
So, what was I saying? Oh yeah, sharing. Sharing is caring. Being obnoxious is not caring. Stop sharing your hatred please. ;D oh cra- *laser cannon'd*

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Choja on 2006-12-14 21:13 ]</font>

[VelosofLight]

I'm getting very very close to finally being able to get Fortegunner. Now, once I get my launcher, I'll be waiting for them to release the Bullet PA that causes it to rapidly consume PP but deal much higher damage. I also plan to work on a few status-effect PAs for it, since the splash damage is nice. But anyway, it depends on what sort of support you need. If you want huge areas of mobs turned to ice, I'd say a Fortegunner with a launcher is the way to go. If you need someone to apply status effects here and there while heal/buffing, go Guntecher.

[EphekZ]

This would go in the other forum no? Doesnt it matter on the player? I'm a wartecher and I've found myself to be a very good back up FO. I really don't see the point of this thread anyways; No real right answer it just depends on the Player. But if you were going by just stats and shit, then the fortetecher was intended to support but it seems this community is beyong helping out others

[Sychosis]

On 2006-12-14 21:08, Maskim wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:58, Sychosis wrote:

Piss off jerk face. You have mates use 'em! If you want real support (ie someone useful!) get a fortetecher in your party. Don't settle for some half assed BS pansy cake guntecher.

"Ooh, look at me, I can cast resta! But only if you're 5 inches away or closer! Luckily, unlike a fortetecher, I actually have the hp to be able to do so, if needed, and and can get close enough to drop a moon atomizer, resta, reverser, or whatever the situation calls for! Also, since I'm a guntecher, I can keep an eye on my fortetecher buddy too, blocking enemies that slip past the hunters with some status effect point blank rounds to the base of their muthafukin skulls!"



I noticed you left off the rest of that quote, so I finished it for you.



zOMG go die!

[MegaBUD]

Guntecher is not a good ranger/FO combination... it should be like wartecher.... 20/20 ... 20gun/20tech

[Laranas]

Just 2 quick notes on the behalf of the Fortechers here:

1) Stop complaining about our HP and getting 1 hit. The only times I've gotten 1-hit running in to heal was when I was facing Megid, and that has nothing to do with HP. I have 825 HP and my EVP blocked a good 4/5 hits from the front easily. The only things that really hurt are shifta'ed monsters, techs (oddly enough), and certain skills like Dimma's whirlwind. Everywhere I turn I see people talking about how Fortechers can't heal because they get 1-hit. Find better Fortechers.

2) We can be good at more than just healing and nuking (nuking is only 'alright' due to limitations). Personally, my bow hits for 200 dmg Ice vs Light (meaning: no ele bonus) with a Lv4 bullet. I haven't tried to melee but I think having decent DPS with techs and range helps the review of the class. Guntechers probably due more, but don't discredit us too much

[juno-6]

On 2006-12-14 21:14, VelosofLight wrote:
I'm getting very very close to finally being able to get Fortegunner. Now, once I get my launcher, I'll be waiting for them to release the Bullet PA that causes it to rapidly consume PP but deal much higher damage. I also plan to work on a few status-effect PAs for it, since the splash damage is nice. But anyway, it depends on what sort of support you need. If you want huge areas of mobs turned to ice, I'd say a Fortegunner with a launcher is the way to go. If you need someone to apply status effects here and there while heal/buffing, go Guntecher.



whoa, lol....he just brought in a whole nother' unrelated group of ppls into this. WAR GUNTECHER!

[VelosofLight]

On 2006-12-14 21:23, juno-6 wrote:

On 2006-12-14 21:14, VelosofLight wrote:
I'm getting very very close to finally being able to get Fortegunner. Now, once I get my launcher, I'll be waiting for them to release the Bullet PA that causes it to rapidly consume PP but deal much higher damage. I also plan to work on a few status-effect PAs for it, since the splash damage is nice. But anyway, it depends on what sort of support you need. If you want huge areas of mobs turned to ice, I'd say a Fortegunner with a launcher is the way to go. If you need someone to apply status effects here and there while heal/buffing, go Guntecher.



whoa, lol....he just brought in a whole nother' unrelated group of ppls into this. WAR GUNTECHER!



....what?

Edit: Oh, I see what you mean. Ah well, there are different kinds of support, and I thought I might as well include the Ranged support as well as the Force support.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VelosofLight on 2006-12-14 21:36 ]</font>

[Maskim]

On 2006-12-14 21:20, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-12-14 21:08, Maskim wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:58, Sychosis wrote:

Piss off jerk face. You have mates use 'em! If you want real support (ie someone useful!) get a fortetecher in your party. Don't settle for some half assed BS pansy cake guntecher.

"Ooh, look at me, I can cast resta! But only if you're 5 inches away or closer! Luckily, unlike a fortetecher, I actually have the hp to be able to do so, if needed, and and can get close enough to drop a moon atomizer, resta, reverser, or whatever the situation calls for! Also, since I'm a guntecher, I can keep an eye on my fortetecher buddy too, blocking enemies that slip past the hunters with some status effect point blank rounds to the base of their muthafukin skulls!"



I noticed you left off the rest of that quote, so I finished it for you.



zOMG go die!



WUT??!!11 If you dont lik teh guntecherz and tellz me 2 die, then you must be teh h4Xx0rz!!11!!!111

[Remedy]

On 2006-12-14 20:37, AeraLure wrote:
Depnds on the Guntecher and the Fortetecher involved, ne?

[Sychosis]

On 2006-12-14 21:35, Maskim wrote:

WUT??!!11 If you dont lik teh guntecherz and tellz me 2 die, then you must be teh h4Xx0rz!!11!!!111



Ill dupe u a tissue kk?

*COUGH*wartecherisbettersupportthanguntecher*COUGH *



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sychosis on 2006-12-14 21:37 ]</font>

[Maskim]

Can I get a stack of 99? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

"ZOMG! Maskim has a stack of 97 tissues in his shop for 1 meseta each! He's ruining the economy!"

*disclaimer: Maskim in no way endorses the use of duping.

[Genobee]

There alll right... my friend is a new man guntecher and their heals totaly blow... he ahs to sit there and cast resta on my like 9 times for it to be noticable.

[-Shimarisu-]

LOL@ everyone equating support wth "u mean liek, resta rite?"

[Kent]

On 2006-12-14 22:00, -Shimarisu- wrote:
LOL@ everyone equating support wth "u mean liek, resta rite?"



Well, on the Technique side of things, Resta and Reverser are about the gist of their "support" techniques, on the US Network mode.

Of course, bullets galore and such.

[VanHalen]

On 2006-12-14 21:20, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-12-14 21:08, Maskim wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:58, Sychosis wrote:

Piss off jerk face. You have mates use 'em! If you want real support (ie someone useful!) get a fortetecher in your party. Don't settle for some half assed BS pansy cake guntecher.

"Ooh, look at me, I can cast resta! But only if you're 5 inches away or closer! Luckily, unlike a fortetecher, I actually have the hp to be able to do so, if needed, and and can get close enough to drop a moon atomizer, resta, reverser, or whatever the situation calls for! Also, since I'm a guntecher, I can keep an eye on my fortetecher buddy too, blocking enemies that slip past the hunters with some status effect point blank rounds to the base of their muthafukin skulls!"



I noticed you left off the rest of that quote, so I finished it for you.



zOMG go die!



best comeback ever lol

[juno-6]

On 2006-12-14 22:00, -Shimarisu- wrote:
LOL@ everyone equating support wth "u mean liek, resta rite?"



lol, good point. as a GT you can support with Status effects, Healing, Buff/debuffs, Mob Control, and cover fire.


anyways, i look at guntechers as medics in battle and fortechers as stationed doctors. ya'll mean?

[VelosofLight]

On 2006-12-14 22:06, juno-6 wrote:

On 2006-12-14 22:00, -Shimarisu- wrote:
LOL@ everyone equating support wth "u mean liek, resta rite?"



lol, good point. as a GT you can support with Status effects, Healing, Buff/debuffs, Mob Control, and cover fire.


anyways, i look at guntechers as medics in battle and fortechers as stationed doctors. ya'll mean?



Stationed doctors with, what, cannons?

-gets Diga'd in the face-

[juno-6]

On 2006-12-14 22:10, VelosofLight wrote:

On 2006-12-14 22:06, juno-6 wrote:

On 2006-12-14 22:00, -Shimarisu- wrote:
LOL@ everyone equating support wth "u mean liek, resta rite?"



lol, good point. as a GT you can support with Status effects, Healing, Buff/debuffs, Mob Control, and cover fire.


anyways, i look at guntechers as medics in battle and fortechers as stationed doctors. ya'll mean?



Stationed doctors with, what, cannons?

-gets Diga'd in the face-



huh? ok how bout' this....

i look at guntechers as paramedics and fortechers as heart surgeons.

[ZiG]

Personally, I love being a guntecher. And as Shimarisu pointed out, support is more than Resta.

Be that as it may, I've still main-healed plenty of Agata A runs as Guntecher. The last block gets crazy, but it keeps you on your toes.

Guntecher is an excellent support, since bullets tend to SE alot more than spells (in my experience), and I would go so far as to say it's better than Wartecher for that reason, and for the reason that Guntechers aren't in the thick of the fray, so they have a better view of it, from outside, able to pick and choose crisis areas and move over to them and deal with them.

Sometimes it isn't enough to simply Resta someone who's in trouble. This situation isn't a very common occurance, but it's one I've found myself in often enough to note: Dual Pistols being great to use for mobility, teammate being much too far away to resta, and in serious shape, a Guntecher can run toward said teammate, firing, and will generally SE the mobs attacking the teammate giving the Guntecher time to pop that Resta off. Every second counts sometimes.

As for Guntechers being better than Fortetechers? I won't say they're better, but as a whole, I've met many more humble Guntechers willing to help out a teammate than I have Fortetechers.

[Maskim]

On 2006-12-14 22:17, ZiG wrote:
Personally, I love being a guntecher. And as Shimarisu pointed out, support is more than Resta.

Be that as it may, I've still main-healed plenty of Agata A runs as Guntecher. The last block gets crazy, but it keeps you on your toes.

Guntecher is an excellent support, since bullets tend to SE alot more than spells (in my experience), and I would go so far as to say it's better than Wartecher for that reason, and for the reason that Guntechers aren't in the thick of the fray, so they have a better view of it, from outside, able to pick and choose crisis areas and move over to them and deal with them.

Sometimes it isn't enough to simply Resta someone who's in trouble. This situation isn't a very common occurance, but it's one I've found myself in often enough to note: Dual Pistols being great to use for mobility, teammate being much too far away to resta, and in serious shape, a Guntecher can run toward said teammate, firing, and will generally SE the mobs attacking the teammate giving the Guntecher time to pop that Resta off. Every second counts sometimes.

As for Guntechers being better than Fortetechers? I won't say they're better, but as a whole, I've met many more humble Guntechers willing to help out a teammate than I have Fortetechers.



And that, more eloquently put than I said, is why I love partying with guntechers.

[DoubleJG]

Better support YES.

In popular demand over Fortetecher? NO. Their Resta range is astounding.

[mogshaz]

On 2006-12-14 23:20, DoubleJG3288 wrote:
Better support YES.

In popular demand over Fortetecher? NO. Their Resta range is astounding.



Yeah, if only we could get them to use it every once in a while instead of trying to compete with Fortefighters for who does the most damage.

[EJ]

it seems I played with fortetecher that perfer doing tech damage than heal half the time while the guntechers I play with like to heal and reserver more often but I'm a newman wartecher what o I know since I can also do both support and go offensive. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Alisha]

On 2006-12-14 20:45, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:43, -Shimarisu- wrote:
You people are no fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Ok.

Level 10 techs?! Are you fucking serious? Go back to kindergarten and learn to count you moron.

Happy?



you clearly know nothing about support techs. the difference between level 1 and lvl 21 shifta is a few minutes of duration and range. also in another post it was confirmed that resta level does NOT effect heal potency.

[Sychosis]

...

You realize that post was made only to ignite the flames Shim was looking for, right?

At least SHE respects the flame...

[FrogKicker]

On 2006-12-15 04:19, Sychosis wrote:
...

You realize that post was made only to ignite the flames Shim was looking for, right?

At least SHE respects the flame...



When did Foie become a support spell? o_O

[DonRoyale]

Mecghun or Handgun / Wand Combo > Having to switch to a healer rod, or switching menus.

Sure, they heal faster, but how much they heal-now that's the issue at hand here. Fortetechers will heal far more health with their Resta than a Guntecher will ever hope to.

[Shiro_Ryuu]

On 2006-12-14 20:58, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:51, juno-6 wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:45, Sychosis wrote:

On 2006-12-14 20:43, -Shimarisu- wrote:
You people are no fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



Ok.

Level 10 techs?! Are you fucking serious? Go back to kindergarten and learn to count you moron.

Happy?



YAY! im in!


OMFG wtf's the point to lv 9999 resta if you wont even use it on a player until they're at 2 HP!?!?

At least in kindergarden we learn to SHARE.



Piss off jerk face. You have mates use 'em! If you want real support (ie someone useful!) get a fortetecher in your party. Don't settle for some half assed BS pansy cake guntecher.

"Ooh, look at me, I can cast resta! But only if you're 5 inches away or closer!"



Casting Resta is cheaper than having someone use a mate. So far, the most I've spent on PP charging because of using resta so many times is like 200-something(this also included the B rank Twin handguns whose PP I burned away). spending on mates costs much more meseta.

[Sychosis]

Ok. I give up.

[FrogKicker]

On 2006-12-15 04:45, Sychosis wrote:
Ok. I give up.



RIP sarcasm...we knew ye well....

*cries himself to death in the fetal position*

[Maridia]

Haha, this thread rules.

Sarcastic flames ftw.

[MORB]

On 2006-12-14 20:43, -Shimarisu- wrote:
You people are no fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

This was not obnoxious and virulent enough to ignite a class flamewar.

You should rather try to diss a character class totally and aim for the things they are most likely to have a complex of inferiority about.

Examples:
"fighgunners and fortefighter are easy mode, they just spam daggers PA"

"LOL@Protransers"

"wartechers, stop trying to attack things. heal and let people who can actually do damage kill stuff"

"rangers' only purpose in life is to tag mobs and kill flying mobs - they could delete the class altogether and no one would notice"

And of course, the classic "forces, you do shitty damage. Stick to what you do best and heal the hunters"

[Vhex]

On 2006-12-14 22:06, juno-6 wrote:

On 2006-12-14 22:00, -Shimarisu- wrote:
LOL@ everyone equating support wth "u mean liek, resta rite?"



lol, good point. as a GT you can support with Status effects, Healing, Buff/debuffs, Mob Control, and cover fire.


anyways, i look at guntechers as medics in battle and fortechers as stationed doctors. ya'll mean?



I look at them like walking Trimates. =D (Monomate in guntecher's case.)

[Mystil]

On 2006-12-14 21:20, darkgunner wrote:
This would go in the other forum no? Doesnt it matter on the player? I'm a wartecher and I've found myself to be a very good back up FO. I really don't see the point of this thread anyways; No real right answer it just depends on the Player. But if you were going by just stats and shit, then the fortetecher was intended to support but it seems this community is beyong helping out others


I've been completly WRONG about this guy.

Yes another one I wont be harrassing on this forum ever again.

[Kaloa]

I'm sure that somebody that knows what they're doing could rock any of the "Techer" classes. I think it comes down the the player, their skill, and their experience, and I think that the best support will usually be the person that makes the most of whatever abilities they have at their disposal.

[panzer_unit]

WTF

How about a ForteTecher with paralysis or freeze card + resta / gi-something wand? OH SNAP they can lay ranged damage and statuses, deal massive AOE damage, and heal across the room. GunTechers can go cry when they see the real deal come along.

[Delinguaniss]

On 2006-12-14 20:37, Kent wrote:
Considering that Guntecher was seemingly designed with pure support in mind...

/obvious



Here's Delinguaniss...

I have to agree with this guy. Although I also have to say, support characters support right. So that means they support by not taking items. And I'm a professional at that. After bosses have been defeated and little chump items are left, I get the leftovers. I also support by only healing at the end of every room, if they run out of the room before i can heal them, then so be it. They bet not die, cause I'm always the group leader. Anyway, I'm not an up close and personal fight most of the time, unless I'm in a party where I have to say F*** it to my supporting roles and grab them items. But I know how to get monsters attention away from the hunters. And that's a plus...

[MORB]

On 2006-12-15 06:34, Delinguaniss wrote:
They bet not die, cause I'm always the group leader. Anyway, I'm not an up close and personal fight most of the time, unless I'm in a party where I have to say F*** it to my supporting roles and grab them items.


If you're the party leader, why do you play in give finder mode?

[Delinguaniss]

Cause I don't like people to get items they didn't pick up. I don't want ppl to get items they weren't fast enough to get, it's all about survival to me, and I play with only one force type that doesn't mind. And I think he's golden, you know why, cause he doesn't care. Everyone I try to party with, just loves to mingle with ppl. IF you don't like to mingle with ppl, don't party with me, I rarely change the item thing. I'm usually the only healer of the group anyway, by the way, who are you?

[MORB]

On 2006-12-15 06:47, Delinguaniss wrote:
And I think he's golden, you know why, cause he doesn't care. Everyone I try to party with, just loves to mingle with ppl. IF you don't like to mingle with ppl, don't party with me, I rarely change the item thing. I'm usually the only healer of the group anyway, by the way, who are you?

I didn't even meant to put you on the defensive like that - I sometime like to rub people the wrong way just for fun on forums but in that particular case I wasn't.

It's just that complaining about not being able to pick up items while at the same time being party leader struck me as odd.

I don't care much for loot myself, as long as I do get some - and much like you, I don't like to change the way I play like avoiding to fight from a distance in situations where it makes sense (i'm a fighgunner) just for the sake of picking up items.

As far as I'm concerned, the best way not to care about who gets items is to use random or in order loot. If you stay at distance and support, you deserve your share of the loot.

Of course, one could stay afk and leech items and exp, but you just kick them, so it's not really an issue.

[Delinguaniss]

On 2006-12-15 06:56, MORB wrote:

On 2006-12-15 06:47, Delinguaniss wrote:
And I think he's golden, you know why, cause he doesn't care. Everyone I try to party with, just loves to mingle with ppl. IF you don't like to mingle with ppl, don't party with me, I rarely change the item thing. I'm usually the only healer of the group anyway, by the way, who are you?

I didn't even meant to put you on the defensive like that - I sometime like to rub people the wrong way just for fun on forums but in that particular case I wasn't.

It's just that complaining about not being able to pick up items while at the same time being party leader struck me as odd.

I don't care much for loot myself, as long as I do get some - and much like you, I don't like to change the way I play like avoiding to fight from a distance in situations where it makes sense (i'm a fighgunner) just for the sake of picking up items.

As far as I'm concerned, the best way not to care about who gets items is to use random or in order loot. If you stay at distance and support, you deserve your share of the loot.

Of course, one could stay afk and leech items and exp, but you just kick them, so it's not really an issue.



Sorry man, I didn't mean it to come out defensive. I did run into a leecher the other day, got booted, thinking she was going to get free mission points with out asking me first. Lame, most of the times, generous guys get treated rather generously. My friends usually give me stuff after hard days of work. They give me weapons and rare items and all kinds of stuff. I'm thankful there are still good players out there...

[Ogni-XR21]

Well, my Reverser lvl 20 will reach almost any ally without me running near them, at lvl 10 it's a hassle sometimes. And I would suggest that Shifta/Deband/Jellen/Zalure (and the others, can't remember the names) will probably be much more effective once they are high lvl (I suppose these do level up). So I don't think Guntechers are better supporters than Fortechers.

It still is good to have one in the party, since someone needs to unfreeze/unparalyze/unsilcence when I'm in need... ^_^

[panzer_unit]

Tell your cheapskate friends to carry Sol Atomizers. You don't have to switch weapons to pop one out either, which is best if you're trying to save a paralyzed force from further damage.

[Ogni-XR21]

On 2006-12-15 09:21, panzer_unit wrote:
Tell your cheapskate friends to carry Sol Atomizers. You don't have to switch weapons to pop one out either, which is best if you're trying to save a paralyzed force from further damage.



In an ideal Universe...

You are right though!

[Kard]

On 2006-12-14 20:50, RyukiZero wrote:
A ForteFighter is better support than GunTechers.

[juno-6]

nah, not really.....the only kind of support a fortecher has is their technics.

GT has way more support options available to them.

[Bleemo]

This thread is filled with sarcasm and confused individuals.

I'd rather have large, chunky, long ranged Resta/Reversers than some dinky handguns spitting out 10-20 damage making things all sparkly.

Thank you.

[juno-6]

10-20? puhleez, stop making up stories

and like omg, i be freezin hoes up, i be burnin hoes up, i be shocking hoes up, n' i be silencin' hoes up.......dont try to get all up in my grill with all them Ra-spells.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: juno-6 on 2006-12-16 00:19 ]</font>

[closer013]

OMG i can't believe you just said that statement... I think my IQ went down several points for having witnessed that. Hoes? Go and play Halo or Madden if you're gonna talk like that and leave us all alone...

[Laranas]

While it's not about Guntechers, I'm changing my opinion on Wartechers.

- Yes, they are a lot more durable. I didn't get 1-hit as a Fortecher until Onma S, but as a Wartecher I can survive 2 barrages

- Techs aren't gimped too badly. I still resta for ~760 and foie for ~270. While the foie has essentially been cut in half, the resta is still useful

- Cards are fun. Even if you can't get it to Lv11 as a Wartecher (arguement for Guntecher!). My bow itself hits for 250-300 with the right element

- I do about 120 dmg a hit using my twin daggers on a buff-less monster with 18% elemental, and 190-200 dmg a hit with the PA.

- So essentially, give up a bit of TP and become (more) formidible with range and melee. The higher ATA and DFP let you equip guns and armors that Fortechers can only dream about atm too.


But I do miss Lv30 Foie and rods... I'm probably going to switch Fortecher/Guntecher/Wartecher on a day-to-day basis to suit my mood.

[omegapirate2k]

On 2006-12-15 04:30, FrogKicker wrote:

On 2006-12-15 04:19, Sychosis wrote:
...

You realize that post was made only to ignite the flames Shim was looking for, right?

At least SHE respects the flame...



When did Foie become a support spell? o_O



Haha that made me LOL

And as for the guy who said that "It depends on the guntecher and fortetecher". Your totally right. I've seen guntechers that carry 1 wand and like 5 ranged weapons, and I've also seen a guntecher who always helped. Same with fortetechers.

[-Shimarisu-]

I carry 6 wands and no ranged weapons, I truly know my place and thats humping your butt with my shitty ranged resta, casting that shitty resta 9000 times as is requisite. No other option for me. Clearly.

[JasonWFD]

I'm a Guntecher, and I take offense to everything everyone has said in this thread. I'm going to go on the official forums and raise a big stink about how GT's are gimp and need love in the next patch, and about how all fT's are assholes. LEVEL 11+ TECHS ARE FOR SISSIES

*ahem* Sorry Shim, that was the best I could do. On to a serious answer.

I agree with Shim and LOLed at the fact that many people equate "support" with "Resta". There are other facets to the concept of "support" here, with healing being one of them but not the only one.

Without going into details, here's the short of it: Foretechers have the capacity to be artillery plus support. Guntechers are just support, and they're more relieable at it. GT's are going to be using ranged more often because they'll be using less attack Techs and they'll have better ATA, meaning that they'll be causing much more consistant SE. That's what it's all about, the combination of SE and support techs.

I CAN NOT wait for the buffs/debuffs to be released. I, and fellow Guntechers, will shine when that happens.

No, I can't do any damage at all. It's sad. But everyone else can do the damage, my job is to control the situation so that they can do their damage as quickly and easily as possible.

I'm sorry for expressing my opinion and trying to help the community by sharing ideas and views in a respectable manner. Next time I promise I'll be more belligerent. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Randomness]

First of all, I think Shimarisu is enjoying starting a flame war...

Secondly, it really balances out in a way, since guntechers have SLIGHTLY better status infliction capabilities (Since fortechers still have level 30 bows), but do not have the higher power/radius healing of fortechers.

Both classes are capable of dealing damage effectively from a distance, and applying SEs at the same time. The ability to use rods is a major point in fortecher's favor, but guntechers will obviously be pairing off all thier wands with guns. In the end, it really does come down to how they're used, but I think fortechers have slightly higher ability because of level 30 techs and rods.

[Bleemo]

On 2006-12-16 10:14, Randomness wrote:
I think fortechers have slightly higher ability because of level 30 techs and rods.
Slightly?

*Looks at his Newman Guntechers 220 TP.*

*Looks at his level 10 techs.*


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-12-16 10:17 ]</font>

[Laranas]

On 2006-12-16 10:16, Bleemo wrote:
*Looks at his Newman Guntechers 220 TP.*
And I thought i had it bad with my 433 TP as a Wartecher...

[Randomness]

On 2006-12-16 10:16, Bleemo wrote:

On 2006-12-16 10:14, Randomness wrote:
I think fortechers have slightly higher ability because of level 30 techs and rods.
Slightly?

*Looks at his Newman Guntechers 220 TP.*

*Looks at his level 10 techs.*


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-12-16 10:17 ]</font>


Ah, but as I recall, the buff techs aren't supposed to rely on your TP... Reverser doesn't.

And guntechers have some other stuff besides techs for support.

[Laranas]

I keep reading "Resta != Support", which I think is true but I haven't seen anyone say what is. Is it bullets and SE? Cause Fortechers get Lv30 of those. Are buffs only availible to hybrids or something? Since I dont see why Fortechers would have a harder time using them.

[Taris]

People (in the USA/EU) will be a lot happier with GunTecher when actual supporting techs are released. And when Light and Dark bullets are released.

Guy running around with Confuse + Lazer Cannon, Rifles (flinching + pushback + effect all at once), Resta/Shifta/Deband/Jellen/Zalure/Light and/or Dark techs, and Shotguns/Crossbows is going to be useful.

Of course, since we don't have half of that listed yet, it's moot.

Not to mention, most people aren't even considering how things will be like later on (higher levels/higher mission ranks), when a WarTecher won't want to be in the middle of a melee for too long, and their nukes won't be as fabulous, leaving them with support TECHS as their biggest support contribution, since they at least get the ranges extended. (5-to-1 says they pick up the Jellen/Zalure slack when full-Forces are too busy nuking.)

GunTechers will still have their arsenal of guns. Won't have to get near stuff to stat-effect them, and will be pretty much free to run amok. In other words, a completely different animal from WarTecher altogether...

[Spellbinder]

Ah, but as I recall, the buff techs aren't supposed to rely on your TP... Reverser doesn't.

And guntechers have some other stuff besides techs for support.


For the record, no Buffs don't rely on TP but they do on level. Quite simply, level 10 Buffs and Debuff Technics are inferior to those of a Fortecher, but that's not really the point.

Yes Fortechers are good support in that aspect, but when it comes to status effects, Guns have Fortechers beat hands down, and that's coming from a Fortecher. (Loves Guntechers & Wartechers).

[omegapirate2k]

On 2006-12-16 09:33, -Shimarisu- wrote:
I carry 6 wands and no ranged weapons, I truly know my place and thats humping your butt with my shitty ranged resta, casting that shitty resta 9000 times as is requisite. No other option for me. Clearly.



And while your at it, make me a sandwich and get me a beer, the games on.

[Randomness]

On 2006-12-16 10:49, Spellbinder wrote:

Ah, but as I recall, the buff techs aren't supposed to rely on your TP... Reverser doesn't.

And guntechers have some other stuff besides techs for support.


For the record, no Buffs don't rely on TP but they do on level. Quite simply, level 10 Buffs and Debuff Technics are inferior to those of a Fortecher, but that's not really the point.

Yes Fortechers are good support in that aspect, but when it comes to status effects, Guns have Fortechers beat hands down, and that's coming from a Fortecher. (Loves Guntechers & Wartechers).



Level only ups duration...

[Sinue_v2]

I truly know my place and thats humping your butt with my shitty ranged resta

So THAT'S where the facination with "From Behind" comes from...


There are other facets to the concept of "support" here, with healing being one of them but not the only one.

The problem is though, that their additional support can be done, and done better, by other classes. It's nice to have a bit of an all-in-one, but they become virtually useless the moment you start partying up with competant players.

RA's and ForteGunners can deal status effects better, even if for the simple fact that they don't have to worry about support. They can focus purely on the status effect side.

HU's and ForteFighters do far more damage than your bullets can hope to inflict.

FO's and ForteTechers have much higher TP and MST pools - access to much higher PP capacity weapons, and lvl 30 techniques. While there are a lot of crappy FO's out there, there are also quite a few who generously use Resta, Reverser, and other support techniques (once they are released) In the presence of these sorts of FO's, your lvl 10 gimp techs are worthless. In fact, they can also be considered a liability since by the time you move into range and get your weapons switched - your ally might be dead. A FO with high lvl resta can practically heal from clear across the room without having to even really move.

The presence of Wartechers compounds this gimpness, because their support techs are a full 10 levels higher - and they also have a much higher TP and MST pool, as well as earlier access to wands which have greater PP capacity. They're decent enough at casting techniques that they can have full healing duty while the FO's concentrate on nuking - not to mention that since they do (pathetic) melee damage and have moderate defense - they're often positioned right in the middle of combat where their resta AoE has the most effect. LvL 20 Twin Dagger PA also allows them to do moderate damage most of the time if they spam that as their main attack. Carrying two of three twin daggers to keep PP levels decent and covering about half of the elemental weaknesses.

In short - a GunTecher is a good support option, if it's 4am and nobody else is online and your party decides that it's "well, better than nothing at least". It's the kind of class you'd want to play if you enjoy being the kid who's always (grudgingly) picked dead last for any sort of sports activity in gym class. No... wait... second to last. Protranser would be last.

[PaladinRPG]

If guntecher is not about dealing damage so much as status application and support techs, would a Newman GT fare slightly better than a Human one?

[Spellbinder]

On 2006-12-16 11:07, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-12-16 10:49, Spellbinder wrote:

Ah, but as I recall, the buff techs aren't supposed to rely on your TP... Reverser doesn't.

And guntechers have some other stuff besides techs for support.


For the record, no Buffs don't rely on TP but they do on level. Quite simply, level 10 Buffs and Debuff Technics are inferior to those of a Fortecher, but that's not really the point.

Yes Fortechers are good support in that aspect, but when it comes to status effects, Guns have Fortechers beat hands down, and that's coming from a Fortecher. (Loves Guntechers & Wartechers).



Level only ups duration...



Lv 1 to 10: Lv 1 stat debuff / buff

Lv 11 to 20: Lv 2 stat debuff / buff

Lv 21 to 30: Lv 3 stat debuff / buff

It affects duration and potency.

[Diasuke-san]

On 2006-12-16 12:54, PaladinRPG wrote:
If guntecher is not about dealing damage so much as status application and support techs, would a Newman GT fare slightly better than a Human one?

In my opinoin yes if your looking for higher accuracy and quicky access to wands. But if you want more damege then you will want a human GT

[PaladinRPG]

On 2006-12-16 13:10, Diasuke-san wrote:
In my opinoin yes if your looking for higher accuracy and quicky access to wands. But if you want more damege then you will want a human GT
Yes, that was my thinking.

I'd also like to add to the discussion that if Fortetechers didn't have access to both 30 bulllets AND 30 techs, then guntechers would be a much more attractive option.

[SonicTMP]

hmmm a class with limited spells and guns. The class can attack with guns and wait for status to take effect or sit back and heal/buff. Neither option is very powerful. vs a pure force that has high magic, very powerful buff/debuff/heals and can dish out pure elemental damage.

personally I'd rather have a ranger/fortegunner sinc they will be all bullets all the time so they have best status chances. Or a pure force since their techs are exteremelt ypowerful and all their support spells will be top notch.

guntecher is pretty much like a wartecher. you can heal/buff yourself. NIce to have around but one of the pure classes does it so much better.

[MXdude]

As long as they dont die and help keep others from dieing, I dotn care what class they are.


Also, What is the poitn of giving guntechers lv 10 techs? I mean, Isnt lv10, the same as Lv1? They could have atleast given us Lv11 ;_;



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MXdude on 2006-12-16 14:54 ]</font>

[imfanboy]

On 2006-12-15 06:29, panzer_unit wrote:
WTF

How about a ForteTecher with paralysis or freeze card + resta / gi-something wand? OH SNAP they can lay ranged damage and statuses, deal massive AOE damage, and heal across the room. GunTechers can go cry when they see the real deal come along.



I'll remember that the next time your gimped-ass Protranser comes along begging for my guntecher to fill up his pathetic HP, Jagd. BTW, my level 37 Wartecher 2 now has 890 HP; have you managed to get past her yet with your 54+ Protranser 3? XD

That pansy Fortetecher will be seeing so many 0's swing by that they'll have to watch me and cry as I'm already done muting the spellcasters, shocking the melee'ers, and burning the bats before they even shoot 3 guys - AND I'll have healed the Protranser who was yakkin' when he shoulda been hackin'.


Honestly, guntechers are pinch-hitters when it comes to FOing: Equal to fortegunners in spreading status effects around and being much more mobile while doing it, while still being able to whip out wands (or, with access to all of the 1-handed guns, just have them in-hand) and heal REAL quick.

Kinda like how fortegunners can whip out a spear and poke for some damage in a tight spot, the guntecher can whip out wands to heal if there's no other option. Doesn't mean that they should be STUCK meleeing or casting; just that the option is there if there's no other choice.

When there's a fortetecher in the group, I mostly focus on spreading SE's while they nuke/heal, watching for trouble spots and drifting that way to be ready in case the fT isn't fast enough or he *gasp* gets knocked down while trying to heal!

What kinda peeves me is when I'm in a party with a wartecher and a fortetecher and somehow I'M the one who has the resta ready all the time to heal THEIR asses because they're too busy nuking to take a second out and realize what danger they're in.

Right now at level 50 Guntecher 3 I heal about 400 using a 4* wand. That is pretty gimped, but ya know what?

It's better than dying.


Guntechers are kind of mavericks; self-sufficient enough to not be attached to the hip of even fortetecher resta (and don't tell me they'll always have range; not every fight takes place in LL) and good enough at rangering that they don't get left behind.

And Srank dualies ftw! ^_^

[Delinguaniss]

All if my guys are Guntechers, Resedious is the cast, so he has the most accuracy and most power. Toshedd is the human, so he's pretty average, allowing him to reach a better wand than Resedious. Delinguaniss is the magical one, he can hold the most powerful wand thus far. They all have their benefits, when they all reach level 50, I'm pretty sure they'll all be find. As of right now, my most powerful weapon is that A Rank bow I have. Although I have two pairs of Rayratores upgraded twice which serve me very well, cause their PP is outstanding. I also run around with a Crea Saber with Del & TO cause they are the only ones that can equip it, while RD has the SUV compatibility to do tons more damage than they could ever do. All three have their ups and downs, Del is the only one that can do Fanatics by himself, with out struggling, so he's of course my favorite...

[panzer_unit]

On 2006-12-16 15:17, imfanboy wrote:

I'll remember that the next time your gimped-ass Protranser comes along begging for my guntecher to fill up his pathetic HP, Jagd. BTW, my level 37 Wartecher 2 now has 890 HP; have you managed to get past her yet with your 54+ Protranser 3? XD

That pansy Fortetecher will be seeing so many 0's swing by that they'll have to watch me and cry as I'm already done muting the spellcasters, shocking the melee'ers, and burning the bats before they even shoot 3 guys - AND I'll have healed the Protranser who was yakkin' when he shoulda been hackin'.



Pttthhh even with my HP total I need to pop a 'mate when you come running in to heal. Thanks for trying though.

The disrespect on low-ATA is worth comment. I was shocked... BLOWN AWAY... when I pulled out the old Shigga Amza in Mizuraki Defense S and started hitting 75% or better with it, landing burn statuses left and right. That's a 0.6 ATA mod and a crap-accuracy weapon type... the fT is at least going to be way up thanks to their weapon type. Really, it ain't as bad as the people who get their e-peen from high ATA numbers assume it is.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-16 12:50, Sinue_v2 wrote:
The problem is though, that their additional support can be done, and done better, by other classes.



Wrong.



It's nice to have a bit of an all-in-one, but they become virtually useless the moment you start partying up with competant players.



Wrong.



RA's and ForteGunners can deal status effects better, even if for the simple fact that they don't have to worry about support. They can focus purely on the status effect side.


So what you are saying here is that having resta gimps us, because we are busy healing and not dealing status. So when resta is needed over status, it's just better NOT to have it, because a RA is just for dealing status? Oh, I better NOT HEAL that guy over there who needs it then. Just shoot stuff instead.

That's retarded.

Another thing you forgot is we get bows and cards. Now you might say so do FOs, but we do more damage with our bows and card, and that means a lot on huge flying monsters with high defense, or fucking buffed up fuckers that NOBODY IN THE PARTY IS DOING MUCH DAMAGE ON BUT THE GUNTECHER.



HU's and ForteFighters do far more damage than your bullets can hope to inflict.


That's not the point of a ranger. Although on flying shit, you're still wrong. The FOs can damage the flying shit too, but their techs asre not as fast as my guns.



FO's and ForteTechers have much higher TP and MST pools - access to much higher PP capacity weapons, and lvl 30 techniques.


So what, I have ccess to the best one handed gun in the game (arguably crossbow) which inflicts decent damage, has you in the perfect range for resta, and also I carry grinded wands in the other hand. What's the FO doing? Busy nuking. They can put resta on the same rod but it's not as fast as my wand. Ditto for reverser. They can use a wand instead of rod, but then they gotta stop nuking and switch. Both characters have their purpose sure, but HOW DARE YOU call my class gimp.



While there are a lot of crappy FO's out there, there are also quite a few who generously use Resta, Reverser, and other support techniques (once they are released) In the presence of these sorts of FO's, your lvl 10 gimp techs are worthless.


Come back when I'm class level 10 and casting for half your full HP with a much better, grinded wand and say that. Also, worthless? They aren't worthless NOW. In situations where the party needs resta on tap I can cast it faster than most FOs because of the crossbow/wand combo being far faster than most fos' setup. And I'm ALWAYS in range in a dangerous situation. I PUT myself in range.



In fact, they can also be considered a liability since by the time you move into range and get your weapons switched - your ally might be dead.


How dare you call me a liability.



A FO with high lvl resta can practically heal from clear across the room without having to even really move.


But they are still slower 90% of the time, because fast heals and pure support is not a FO's JOB.



The presence of Wartechers compounds this gimpness,


How dare you call me gimp.



because their support techs are a full 10 levels higher - and they also have a much higher TP and MST pool, as well as earlier access to wands which have greater PP capacity.


You didn't do your homework, support techs are not affected by level for anything but duration and range. Resta is sure, but a grinded wand can still give you a VITAL cure ability. That's faster than most FOs, again, if you put yourself in the fray, WHICH IS WHAT GUNTECHERS ARE FOR, yuo can heal and status inflict quickly and efficiently.

When you are not needed for a fast resta, bust out the boW and do some serious damage from a distance. Something fortegunners can not do.



They're decent enough at casting techniques that they can have full healing duty while the FO's concentrate on nuking - not to mention that since they do (pathetic) melee damage


Are we talking about wartechers here? Are you high? Their melee damage is 3/4s that of fortefighters at low level and creeps up to 4/5s later on.



and have moderate defense - they're often positioned right in the middle of combat where their resta AoE has the most effect.


And so are guntechers - check their weapon allocation. Note it's all CLOSE RANGE guns.



LvL 20 Twin Dagger PA also allows them to do moderate damage most of the time if they spam that as their main attack. Carrying two of three twin daggers to keep PP levels decent and covering about half of the elemental weaknesses.


A wartecher is not a ranger. Stop comparing them to a guntecher. They are worlds apart.



In short - a GunTecher is a good support option, if it's 4am and nobody else is online and your party decides that it's "well, better than nothing at least".


Or you're at Onma and want a healing class that still damages flying monsters and doesn't get KOed in one hit perhaps?



It's the kind of class you'd want to play if you enjoy being the kid who's always (grudgingly) picked dead last for any sort of sports activity in gym class. No... wait... second to last. Protranser would be last.



Fuck off. Please. You know NOTHING about this class.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-16 19:26 ]</font>

[Careful]

long post is looooonnnggg

[Sychosis]

On 2006-12-16 19:24, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Hey guys! I quote too much kk?


http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[KiteWolfwood]

It seems like a Wartecher would be better support. They have up to 20 Techs. More Hp, more Tp, more Evp, and more Mst. Doesn't that mean that with more Hp, Evp, and Mst they are better at getting near the Hunters and such to heal them while still being able to survive? Also with higher Tech cap doesn't that mean they don't have to get as close as guntechers to the person in need of a heal?

tl;dr Cry more. Internet Serious business. It's just a game. It's my $10.

[Delinguaniss]

On 2006-12-16 20:00, KiteWolfwood wrote:
It seems like a Wartecher would be better support. They have up to 20 Techs. More Hp, more Tp, more Evp, and more Mst. Doesn't that mean that with more Hp, Evp, and Mst they are better at getting near the Hunters and such to heal them while still being able to survive? Also with higher Tech cap doesn't that mean they don't have to get as close as guntechers to the person in need of a heal?

tl;dr Cry more. Internet Serious business. It's just a game. It's my $10.



Here's Delinguaniss...

You have a good point, but say for instance. We are talking about survival tactics, recently I got my a** handed to me to like one Vahra with magical range, and my EVP didn't activate. I wasn't even close to the dude the first time, and the second time, I just scrolled through my weapons, but you have to take note to lag time. So I just used a Dimate when I was like near death at 17 HP. I sweat, Vahras make me sick, but that has never happened before. But you have to remember lag is never far behind. It comes out of nowhere, but no healer should have to get that close to someone to heal them. I know my range of a LV10 Resta, cause I'm a Guntecher and it's pretty much easy to heal someone. Besides, I don't heal during fights, I heal after a room is cleared. The quicker the monsters are dead the better.

[Nani-chan]

Some of the points don't add up.

Guntecher (6) has same atp as fortegunner (1), both have much lower atp than my ranger (10). Would you say fortegunner is gimp until they get their atp boosted past the other rangers?

Instead of bashing certain jobs, just have fun. Just thinking about the grind burns me out. It's supposed to be the friendly community that keeps us playing.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Nani-chan on 2006-12-16 22:32 ]</font>

[ProfessorZ]

The only reason I pick being a Guntecher over a Fortetecher is because anyone who plays a ranger class has a sharp eye and always goes in to help

[Kent]

On 2006-12-16 22:26, ProfessorZ wrote:
The only reason I pick being a Guntecher over a Fortetecher is because anyone who plays a ranger class has a sharp eye and always goes in to help



...Just like anyone who plays a Force, has a sharp eye and catches people with Resta, as their HP drops, right?

Someone's type does not determine how attentive they are, nor how they react in a team. That's the person, himself, that determines that.

[Pandatron]

One excels in using techs.

One semi ok in both categories.

While there's globs to dicuss they both have their pros and cons and really based on who's playing what class nuff said.

[SonicTMP]

my some people are upset very easily.

[ProfessorZ]

On 2006-12-16 22:28, Kent wrote:

On 2006-12-16 22:26, ProfessorZ wrote:
The only reason I pick being a Guntecher over a Fortetecher is because anyone who plays a ranger class has a sharp eye and always goes in to help



...Just like anyone who plays a Force, has a sharp eye and catches people with Resta, as their HP drops, right?

Someone's type does not determine how attentive they are, nor how they react in a team. That's the person, himself, that determines that.



Can you tell me where I mention that it wasn't the player who has a sharp eye?

[Shiro_Ryuu]

I do think that Guntechers would be the best with doing agdeal, defdeal, and all that kind of stuff since they waste less PP than Wartechers or Fortetechers who can get them to level 11+ because the monsters aren't going to last forever, they shouldn't even last long enough for the effects to wear off, that along with freezing them, making them shock, etc is what a Guntecher is about, just cripple them however you can. Also, with my Guntecher, I only have a level 6 resta but people appreciate my presence when I heal them, even if it does give crappy health, it gets the job done and they don't die.

[LocGaw]

Their are 3 I play with regularly. I the FO, 1 is a Fortegunner and another is guntecher...

I heal and deal damage, The FG debuffs and deals dam. the GT cures status and debuffs.... We are a tight group and perform well...

So I have to say that:
Good Teamwork > Class types

[Sayara]

And to think, all this time i thought i'd of been one of the only gun techers http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_wacko.gif

[Q_Anon]

I do think that Guntechers would be the best with doing agdeal, defdeal, and all that kind of stuff since they waste less PP than Wartechers or Fortetechers who can get them to level 11+ because the monsters aren't going to last forever, they shouldn't even last long enough for the effects to wear off,

I agree with this, by the time your debuffs are 21+ they're gonna last far longer than they're needed and cost a lot more to cast so this makes Guntechers more PP efficient. Another thing, based on a Guntecher's weapon selection it seems they were designed to use offhand guns with wands or melee weapons, with S ranks all being offhand except dualies. So they don't really need to switch weapons to resta you since they already have the wand out. Lastly, Guntechers seem to more for the emergency resta in the middle of battle since they can cast faster, this leaves the forces free to tag and the hunters don't have to scurry out from the fray to get healed.

[-Shimarisu-]

Yes people, level your damn crossbows, THEN come back and claim you're gimp.

[Kanore]

I think they're even, and Sega did a good job with handling hybrids whereas Blizz had problems catching Pallies and Druids up to Priests.

Of course, with people like Shim, there is no in between, so...

[-Shimarisu-]

No, I don't think they are even.

Guntechers are more concentrated on support.

Fortetechers are more concentrated on damage.

IF they did equal support, guntecher WOULD be gimp, as fortetecher outdamages them.

[Lit]

A good Fortetecher is a good supporter and dmg. If the player is good...

A good Guntecher is a good supporter and dmg. If the player is good...

Fortetecher just dont have to get more close to heal/reverser as Guntecher.

So being a good healer and supporter as Guntecher is a bit harder then Fortetecher but manageable.

Everyone with Resta/Reverser can be good supporter as long as the player know how to play.

Its all in the Teamplay.

Have no Fortetecher and there is only 1 Guntecher in team that has resta/reverser...
then its pretty obvious what he "should" or "would" or "could" do but its still on the player and his/her decisions to play a certain role. /love

[Laranas]

I think in the end you can be whatever you want to be (dps or support). It's been said before that Guntechers do a good deal of damage ranged, yet some people carry all wands. That is a choice of the player. The same choice can be made by a Fortecher to use Wands or load up support techs on their Rod, it just so happens that most fT's would rather nuke.

Later on when most Fortechers can equip the Card of their choice, Bullet support might even out a bit. So in this category it's really a choice of the player to decide where the balance lies.

[Sychosis]

Ok, Shim is the best at everything, this has been established.

What I want to know is whether or not Lv 11 and Lv 21 buffs have greater effects. Shim says no, Ceresa says yes, and I don't feel like going offline and leveling buffs to 11+.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-17 07:26, -Shimarisu- wrote:
No, I don't think they are even.

Guntechers are more concentrated on support.

Fortetechers are more concentrated on damage.


Last time I checked, the most important thing as someone that has the ability to support via buffs, debuffs and heals is to use them on top of all else. I don't concentrate on getting KBs as much as I do running across the field just to heal one person who still has 80% of their health.

I try to prioritize support before damage, and this almost always ends up in successful groups. The use of a higher ranged Reverser and Resta compared to what - level 10 TECHs? - makes it even easier to support.

[Kei-Z]

Hmmmm...if some people would take the time to stop overusing the overused classes...(redundant, I know) then maybe more of you would actually have a clue about guntechers...Anyways, no Guntechers are not gimp. Even a newman guntecher with a bow can, many times, outdamage a fortegunner with rifle...it's true...If anything, guntechers will likely change status better than fortegunners because of their tendency towards faster ranged weapons. I know their techs are only up to lvl 10, but that doesn't make them useless...some of you keep bringing this same point up over, and over, and...Look, guntechers will not get 2 hit killed while trying to heal or clear someone's status like the fortetechers sometimes do. Even the guntechers' attack techs are not useless. A level 10 foie or diga from a grinded B rank wand is still strong, especially against monsters that may resist physical attacks but are weaker to techs and also with the right element matchups. Since most of you people have no experience with guntechers, you should all really try them so then you'll at least know what the heck you're talking about...It IS worth sacrificing some attack power for the weapon selection (i.e. cards, longbows, and I won't even go into how powerful s rank crossbows will be) and the tech usage that a guntecher gains over a fortegunner. Shimarisu is right. Many times, guntechers are better able to support because they are more durable than fortetechers, enabling them to be in harm's way to make a saving heal at less than full hp. The guntecher is a great class, period. (When played correctly) Please do not even try to post some kind of lame explanation about why they suck when you have either not used them at all, or not used them properly. And to reiterate the point of the topic, yes, they are better support characters than fortetechers...now go try actually using a guntecher before retorting...

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-17 07:43, Kanore wrote:

On 2006-12-17 07:26, -Shimarisu- wrote:
No, I don't think they are even.

Guntechers are more concentrated on support.

Fortetechers are more concentrated on damage.


Last time I checked, the most important thing as someone that has the ability to support via buffs, debuffs and heals is to use them on top of all else. I don't concentrate on getting KBs as much as I do running across the field just to heal one person who still has 80% of their health.

I try to prioritize support before damage, and this almost always ends up in successful groups. The use of a higher ranged Reverser and Resta compared to what - level 10 TECHs? - makes it even easier to support.



I find it positively hilarious that people are still on this whole support=resta thing.

I can run in, shock an entire group of monsters with my twin handguns. Then start hitting them for burn status, and pick them off with rifle. They barely run out of status before the hunters have managed all their PAs, being unblocked, and taken them out.

Forces just can't DO that.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-17 08:08, -Shimarisu- wrote:
I find it positively hilarious that people are still on this whole support=resta thing.

I can run in, shock an entire group of monsters with my twin handguns. Then start hitting them for burn status, and pick them off with rifle. They barely run out of status before the hunters have managed all their PAs, being unblocked, and taken them out.

Forces just can't DO that.



I find it positively hilarious that you think that anyone cares about anything other than being healed by people who have the ability to heal. There are only two instances where status effects matter - S Rank Colony, and the Tengoghs in S Rank Onmagoug.

And you're right, Forces CAN'T do that, because like you said, they concentrate on damage. If you haven't noticed, when some spells such as Radiga are cast, monsters are temporarily stunned and sometimes even stop whatever they're doing (no, not silence). This allows Hunters to keep attacking unscathed, and if they get hit, it's possible to heal them from across the room rather than running up to them.

Resta matters to me and a whole lot of other people, and that's why it's an important part of this arguement.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kanore on 2006-12-17 08:25 ]</font>

[-Shimarisu-]

Guntechers are pure support though, and that support comes from status ailments.

The fact they can heal you is just another bonus, oh and by the way, being furthur ranged AND more mobile, do you KNOW how often I've had to reverser a FO that got silenced playing Mines Defense today?

Whle you're standing there aiming your techs, and having to stay still to cast, I'm dodging all over the damn place.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-17 08:28 ]</font>

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-17 08:27, -Shimarisu- wrote:
Guntechers are pure support though, and that support comes from status ailments.

The fact they can heal you is just another bonus, oh and by the way, being furthur ranged AND more mobile, do you KNOW how often I've had to reverser a FO that got silenced playing Mines Defense today?

Whle you're standing there aiming your techs, and having to stay still to cast, I'm dodging all over the damn place.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-17 08:28 ]</font>


And that evens them out with Forces. Are you blind?

Yes, and if there were two Forces in a group, and one was silenced, that totally restricts the other Force from curing him. And even if I was personally with anyone - a Wartecher, a Guntecher, a Force, or a Fortetecher, they'd probably NEVER heal me unless it were a group of people I know due to the fact that a majority of pubbie support players are focused on getting what they want on top of everyone else. So, I just take a bite from an Antimate and move along.

And funny that you should mention that, because I was playing a little pong with those Barta casting guys in Demons Above two days ago: Foie, then move to dodge Barta, then rinse and repeat. Took no damage.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kanore on 2006-12-17 08:35 ]</font>

[ChibiMyu]

I currently have:
lvl 27 Cast Guntecher(1)
lvl 43 Newman Fortetecher(1)

They'd both be a bit higher, but my computer has been acting up for almost 3 weeks now and I've hardly had a chance to play since the new jobs were added. However, so far I'm enjoying both of them.

Neither class has all their spells and abilities yet, so I'm not going to comment on which I think is better until I've had a chance to try them out. However, so far:

I enjoy fortetecher for its wide range of spells. Wands are my weapon of choice because I prefer speed over power, and I hope to one day own an me / quick. Because of the two spell limit per wand, I find myself changing weapons more often, but I find the casting speed worth the effort. More spells landed per mob means more of a chance to land a debuff, but I tend to select spells for their damage properties rather than their debuff ones. If the party is in trouble, I'll more likely pull out my resta stick and spam heals until it's over than try to ice a group of monsters.

I chose to make a cast guntecher, because I really wanted to play with the other magical based range weapons, but if I learned every magical technique on my fortetecher, I'd have no room for bullets. Thus the guntecher was born. I'd like to think of my character as a ranger with a different choice of weaponry and the ability to cast small spells. I'm generally welcomed in parties when there are no other forces around, and nobody has complained yet even when there are. Damage is reasonable, especially when you play by elemental-weakness. Shock is my favorite debuff, and when we come across a rather large group of monsters I think my party will have trouble with, I'll pull out my twin handguns and weave through the pile of monsters until everything has a nice yellow aura. When I get more money, I plan to start carrying freeze traps and purchase a crossbow. Strifing about with a 1 handed gun and a wand to cast defense down as I go sounds appealing as well.

[JasonWFD]

Please allow me to point something out.

People like to be healed, because they don't like to die... or, to a lesser extent, they don't like to get interrupted or harrassed when doing their damage, which makes them kill more slowly. I believe, at least with there being no (de)buffs out right now, that's why most people only view "support" as just being healed properly.

Guns and spells both can "flinch" mobs, sticking them in a recoiling animation for a split second and possibly interrupting whatever they may be doing at that time. This technique of causing monsters to flinch, when used with proper timing, can stop a lot of damage before it even happens, in certain situations. Heck, while we're on it, even melee weapons can flinch mobs and interrupt them! Some regular hits will do this, and a lot of PA attacks will knock mobs into the air, or knock them away.

Status effects can produce the same results. If mobs with melee only attacks are all shocked, they can't deal damage. If caster mobs are silenced, they can't deal damage (or are at least more easily predictable with only melee attacks as an option). Frozen is, well, frozen. In any case, those status effects can prevent damage from happening.

If the damage is prevented, i.e. "controlled", then there is no need for a heal.

- Resta heals damage.
- Crowd control prevents damage before it happens.

Aren't those two above statements producing the same result, in different ways?

"Support" is about control. Controlling the situation so that your team is in the best possible position to win. Keeping your team alive can be accomplished in more than one way.

If you've played traditional MMO's and other similar games, you'll probably understand this a little more quickly than some others. Using this knowledge will make your gameplay better, as you will have a better concept of team tactics and role responsibility.

Play smarter, not angrier. ^_^



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JasonWFD on 2006-12-17 10:36 ]</font>

[SonicTMP]

fighting an uphill battle seems to be the new thing...

[Delinguaniss]

I agree SonicTMP, these jokers don't understand. If you are a Guntecher, your role is the role that you think you should play. I don't carry around Reverser, with any of my characters, although only one of them has Reverser. Which was a waste of 1K. Anyway, I have three Guntechers, three different races, I don't do Beast cause beast are ugly charcters. Guntechers have the uncanny ability to take out bosses with ease, if you don't believe me, find Delinguaniss, Resedious Don or Toshedd On and ask them to accompany you on any of the boss battles, and watch as they archer their way to success, with out even having to heal the party. Cause I'll be damned, if I take any of my Guntechers so close to a boss or a horde of enemies just to heal someone that doesn't take the step to throw up a Mono or two before I can switch weapons and get to him/her/it.

If you don't believe, go talk to another Guntecher, and see how different, his/her/it's style is compared to mine. My weaponry has changed:
Ryo-Rayratore +3
Ryo-Rayratore +3
Rayratore & Assorted Flavored Harisen Battle Fan +3
B'ruga +2 & (specific wand to coordinate a race's TP)
M'maga (Tenora Works 18K Machine Gun) +2 & Assorted Light Bulb, Dagger or Crea Saber +?
Hanmateri

Ageha-senba:
Mind, Evasion and Regen or Sturm Buster

Items:
Monomates x?
Dimates x?
Antimates x?
Photon Charge x?
Moon Atomizer x10
Goggles

[Spellbinder]

On 2006-12-17 07:40, Sychosis wrote:
Ok, Shim is the best at everything, this has been established.

What I want to know is whether or not Lv 11 and Lv 21 buffs have greater effects. Shim says no, Ceresa says yes, and I don't feel like going offline and leveling buffs to 11+.



Yes, they do. I'll just quote myself from page two to save time.


Lv 1 to 10: Lv 1 stat debuff / buff

Lv 11 to 20: Lv 2 stat debuff / buff

Lv 21 to 30: Lv 3 stat debuff / buff

It affects duration and potency.

[SonicTMP]

On 2006-12-17 13:47, Delinguaniss wrote:
I agree SonicTMP, these jokers don't understand......



Actually i ment the whole argument. Shim is fighting for reconition of his/her chosen class but is doing it in the most asinine way. Likewise some of the people fighting back aren't being nice either.

It's not like either side here is going to convinse the other. You'll play your character the best you can. As a hybrid you should be playing every angle you can. You shuld be damage when you need to, you should be support when you need to. You should heal and buff/debuff when you need to. If you can do all that then there are no problems.

Problems arise when you refuse to do something your class has the ability to do.

At least with PSU the classes are balanced decently. All you really need to overcome is the ignorance of the community towards the classes they don't understand. Now if you had the developers aganist you as well, then things get bad.

[DikkyRay]

lets see here.
GUntecher used resta, healed 100 hp. I freakin died because he couldnt heal fast enough. Plus, he rarely used resta
Fortetecher heals ALL my 2000 hp, and uses it frequently.
Case and Point. Guntechers fucking suck

[Laranas]

On 2006-12-17 15:26, DikkyRay wrote:
lets see here.
GUntecher used resta, healed 100 hp. I freakin died because he couldnt heal fast enough. Plus, he rarely used resta
Fortetecher heals ALL my 2000 hp, and uses it frequently.
Case and Point. Guntechers fucking suck

When I was a Fortecher with ~1450 MST I only healed like 1050 dmg. And that was at Lv57 with a Mayrod. He may have been Newman, but 2000 HP is insane.

[Sychosis]

On 2006-12-17 14:33, Spellbinder wrote:

On 2006-12-17 07:40, Sychosis wrote:
Ok, Shim is the best at everything, this has been established.

What I want to know is whether or not Lv 11 and Lv 21 buffs have greater effects. Shim says no, Ceresa says yes, and I don't feel like going offline and leveling buffs to 11+.



Yes, they do. I'll just quote myself from page two to save time.


Lv 1 to 10: Lv 1 stat debuff / buff

Lv 11 to 20: Lv 2 stat debuff / buff

Lv 21 to 30: Lv 3 stat debuff / buff

It affects duration and potency.




That's what I thought, seems perfectly logical. But after finally getting off my lazy ass and testing it offline my average damage with Lv 10 shifta was about 162 per hit, with shifta Lv 11 it was still 162 on average.

Though it is possible that using a vulcan was a bad weapon choice and techs may work differently online.

[DikkyRay]

On 2006-12-17 15:38, Laranas wrote:

On 2006-12-17 15:26, DikkyRay wrote:
lets see here.
GUntecher used resta, healed 100 hp. I freakin died because he couldnt heal fast enough. Plus, he rarely used resta
Fortetecher heals ALL my 2000 hp, and uses it frequently.
Case and Point. Guntechers fucking suck

When I was a Fortecher with ~1450 MST I only healed like 1050 dmg. And that was at Lv57 with a Mayrod. He may have been Newman, but 2000 HP is insane.


Well my I forgot, but he was lvl 60, uhh the best rod, and lvl 30 resta.
Maybe Someone double healed me then because i went from about 100 hp to 2021.
Still, 98 hp, almost (or close too) 2000.
I choose 2000. Fortetechers rule

[Sekani]

On 2006-12-17 15:26, DikkyRay wrote:
lets see here.
GUntecher used resta, healed 100 hp. I freakin died because he couldnt heal fast enough. Plus, he rarely used resta
Fortetecher heals ALL my 2000 hp, and uses it frequently.
Case and Point. Guntechers fucking suck


Learn to use trimates.

[Laranas]

On 2006-12-17 16:04, DikkyRay wrote:

On 2006-12-17 15:38, Laranas wrote:

On 2006-12-17 15:26, DikkyRay wrote:
lets see here.
GUntecher used resta, healed 100 hp. I freakin died because he couldnt heal fast enough. Plus, he rarely used resta
Fortetecher heals ALL my 2000 hp, and uses it frequently.
Case and Point. Guntechers fucking suck

When I was a Fortecher with ~1450 MST I only healed like 1050 dmg. And that was at Lv57 with a Mayrod. He may have been Newman, but 2000 HP is insane.


Well my I forgot, but he was lvl 60, uhh the best rod, and lvl 30 resta.
Maybe Someone double healed me then because i went from about 100 hp to 2021.
Still, 98 hp, almost (or close too) 2000.
I choose 2000. Fortetechers rule

My Resta just hit 20, so that's probably what it was.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-17 15:26, DikkyRay wrote:
lets see here.
GUntecher used resta, healed 100 hp. I freakin died because he couldnt heal fast enough. Plus, he rarely used resta
Fortetecher heals ALL my 2000 hp, and uses it frequently.
Case and Point. Guntechers fucking suck



That wasn't my point.

[Schubalts]

Can we just agree that everybody sucks in some way and end this topic?

[Bleemo]

Eh, a little something to remember: classes are never fully balanced. Some classes will unfortunately have more advantages than others. Fortetecher clearly has more advantages than Guntecher, but that doesn't mean Guntecher has any more disadvantages.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've noticed Shimarisu was just arguing the usefulness of Guntecher. Others are arguing how Fortetecher is simply more useful. Honestly, Guntecher's advantages are too different than Fortetecher's to say clearly one is certainly more useful than the other, because the advantages are situational(Aside from Resta/Reverser, I do hope everyone got the notion out of their heads that this has much to do with Resta/Reverser.). I'm not fond of declaring player skill being a key factor in performance, but I believe in this argument it simply depends on how the player performs his roles compared to the other class.

Guntecher is far from useless. I believe Shimarisu proved that already in her very first post, but arguing about "who is more useful" is kind of moot in this debate. Guntecher isn't gimp compared to Fortetecher, they simply have different advantages. Advantages are always situational.

[Kard]

...And this is only about guntechers. I can't imagine what a protranser thread would degenerate into...



On 2006-12-17 13:47, Delinguaniss wrote:beast are ugly charcters.

Ah, but you see:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/bakadl/PSU/xm28.jpg

I am magnificent!

[JasonWFD]

On 2006-12-17 17:11, Bleemo wrote:
Eh, a little something to remember: classes are never fully balanced. Some classes will unfortunately have more advantages than others. Fortetecher clearly has more advantages than Guntecher, but that doesn't mean Guntecher has any more disadvantages.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've noticed Shimarisu was just arguing the usefulness of Guntecher. Others are arguing how Fortetecher is simply more useful. Honestly, Guntecher's advantages are too different than Fortetecher's to say clearly one is certainly more useful than the other, because the advantages are situational(Aside from Resta/Reverser, I do hope everyone got the notion out of their heads that this has much to do with Resta/Reverser.). I'm not fond of declaring player skill being a key factor in performance, but I believe in this argument it simply depends on how the player performs his roles compared to the other class.

Guntecher is far from useless. I believe Shimarisu proved that already in her very first post, but arguing about "who is more useful" is kind of moot in this debate. Guntecher isn't gimp compared to Fortetecher, they simply have different advantages. Advantages are always situational.



Here here Bleemo, here here!

[SonicTMP]

On 2006-12-17 17:35, Kard wrote:
...And this is only about guntechers. I can't imagine what a protranser thread would degenerate into...



On 2006-12-17 13:47, Delinguaniss wrote:beast are ugly charcters.

Ah, but you see:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/bakadl/PSU/xm28.jpg

I am magnificent!



I'd hit it. http://home.san.rr.com/ksonick/pics/poring/porem_love.gif

[Garnet_Moon]

Guntecher: xbows, Cards, Bows.
Fortecher: Lidra + lv30 Techs.

Who cares which one is better support? Long as those Guntechers keep everything frozen while I rape them with my nukes I don't care what crown they want to wear.

[Shoegaze]

I dunno... I'm playing a Female Human Guntecher, and thus far I've been underwhelmed. I think it's the lack of buff and debuff spells that does it, because as has been pointed out our heals are adequate at best. The attack spells are even worse, and not worth mentioning. Now, I can heal like about 350-400 but that is a big price to pay for the lack of pure out ranged awesomeness that is a Fortegunner or support and/or damage capability of a Fortetecher. Of course, we're not suppose to be as good as either of these specialist classes, but without the ability to buff or debuff Guntechers are of extremely limited use unfortunately. I think once we can spam shifta, deband to augment our ability, we'll see a marked improvement on this class. Until then... lets just face facts, we're 2nd rate Rangers that can cast gimpy heal spells when the Fortetecher is nowhere to be seen. Honestly, even the Wartechers have a leg up on us since they can at least use their attack spells to some effect and still get into the fray and cleanup.

[-Shimarisu-]

On 2006-12-17 21:10, Shoegaze wrote:
I dunno... I'm playing a Female Human Guntecher, and thus far I've been underwhelmed. I think it's the lack of buff and debuff spells that does it, because as has been pointed out our heals are adequate at best. The attack spells are even worse, and not worth mentioning. Now, I can heal like about 350-400 but that is a big price to pay for the lack of pure out ranged awesomeness that is a Fortegunner or support and/or damage capability of a Fortetecher. Of course, we're not suppose to be as good as either of these specialist classes, but without the ability to buff or debuff Guntechers are of extremely limited use unfortunately. I think once we can spam shifta, deband to augment our ability, we'll see a marked improvement on this class. Until then... lets just face facts, we're 2nd rate Rangers that can cast gimpy heal spells when the Fortetecher is nowhere to be seen. Honestly, even the Wartechers have a leg up on us since they can at least use their attack spells to some effect and still get into the fray and cleanup.



1. You aren't meant to use attack spells.
2. Lack of pure ranged awesomeness? YOu do know tht if you went Forte you could use the exact same guns right now, right? And later even, very few S ranks compete with well grinded lower rank guns. And very few people will grind S ranks.
3. Let's talk ATP. Yours is uh. 293 at lvl 50, job lvl 1. If you went Forte, 326. That's a very small sacrifice for self sufficiency.
4. Your ATA is fine. It MUST be fine, because I'm human too, and I have no difficulty hitting things in S areas. Of course I compensated by choosing high ATA guns, but the highest ATA guns have the highest ATP too anyway, and anyone not going for these is daft.
5. That lower ATP you have? It's MORE than compensated for by your option to use bows and cards. Bows cut through buffed up enemies better than any weapon in a fortegunner's arsenal.

Really the only reason to be fortegunner over guntecher RIGHT NOW, is if you are cast and get a better ATP/ATA bonus. And I still can't see it. Still VASTLY prefer this class. We're a lot more mobile, yet still have a long ranged option that's NOT horribly gimped, nor is it second rate when you factor in the bows.

I think you're just not rating ranger overall, or your equips are not the best or ATA optimised, and you see fortes doing better damage and think it's down to the class. Or that the fortes aren't thinking "Geez, my damage sucks compared to hunters" too.

Your ATP is really not much lower than fortes to be a whole big of a deal. YOur ATA is shit in comparison, but high ATA guns make up for that. You're gimped in respect of shots, but try levelling crossbow for spread bullets plus MOBILITY and immediate resta access. You have a bow option, use it if the damage and stun eclipses rifle which in MANY cases, it does.