PDA

View Full Version : Do you DESPISE Twin Daggers?



Ryoki
Dec 15, 2006, 03:04 PM
Do you hate Twin Daggers and the people who use them?

I ask this so I know who to sock in the face when I see them next. (JK)
But I heard a lot of complaints about they, I mean, they do a lot of damage total, the PA hits about 12-14 times, they take 12pp per PA attack and restore 6pp every "Tick". What's not to like (Besides the lack of knockback, which is actually present in the 3rd attack of Renkai Buyou-zan after level 21.

Please state your reason for your poll answer.
(unless it is OMGWTFBBQ. I put that to find out how many jackasses infest the forums. We may need an exterminator http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif)
________
Maine Medical Marijuana Dispensaries (http://maine.dispensaries.org/)

Sychosis
Dec 15, 2006, 03:06 PM
Don't care. I use my single dagger for extreme ease in crowd control.

EDIT: Or rather, I *DID* use it...



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sychosis on 2006-12-15 12:07 ]</font>

Delinguaniss
Dec 15, 2006, 03:08 PM
I voted, either way. They are great weapons for Hunters and Forces that want to use them. Although, I would never use twin daggers, cause I'm not that kind of player and I don't believe in disco spins, XD. I love the single dagger, what's better than holding a weapon and having the ability to long range all enemies. I mean, the single handed sword, wand, single claw, single fan, and single dagger are all great weapons to me. But more poewer to the guys that use the Twin Daggers. They are very powerful weapons...

Nightmarexlc
Dec 15, 2006, 03:09 PM
i picked "dont care". I'm not a fan of the weap, but thats just me. they do nice damage so it makes my job easier http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Side note: with so many ppl using that weapon... ive yet to see the 3rd hit of the twin dagger PA T_T

Ryoki
Dec 15, 2006, 03:10 PM
On 2006-12-15 12:08, Delinguaniss wrote:
I voted, either way. They are great weapons for Hunters and Forces that want to use them. Although, I would never use twin daggers, cause I'm not that kind of player and I don't believe in disco spins, XD. I love the single dagger, what's better than holding a weapon and having the ability to long range all enemies. I mean, the single handed sword, wand, single claw, single fan, and single dagger are all great weapons to me. But more poewer to the guys that use the Twin Daggers. They are very powerful weapons...


I would like to thank you for explaining, since more than half the people who voted already didn't.
And I agree with you on the Saber thing, they are very powerful, which is why they are my second favorite weapon. Plus you knock almost anything down or send it flying.

And the 3rd hit is the best, you add more than twice the previous amount of hits in that one attack, and kick enemies to send em flying.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryoki on 2006-12-15 12:11 ]</font>
________
Vaporizer guide (http://howtomakeavaporizer.info/)

Nestahima
Dec 15, 2006, 03:10 PM
OMGWTFBBQ! (1) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Ryoki
Dec 15, 2006, 03:11 PM
On 2006-12-15 12:10, Nestahima wrote:
OMGWTFBBQ! (1) http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



lol.

________
TICKFORD (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Tickford)

Kard
Dec 15, 2006, 03:12 PM
In terms of crowd control, when it's needed, I'll have my single dagger or twin sabers at the ready. Aside from that, there's no denying the power of twin daggers for dot AND ease of tagging. I'm more likely to get peeved at saber/knuckle/whateverknockback/launchingweaponhaveyou who break up non-threatening groups of enemies, slowing down the party's general kill rate.

Ryoki
Dec 15, 2006, 03:15 PM
On 2006-12-15 12:12, Kard wrote:
In terms of crowd control, when it's needed, I'll have my single dagger or twin sabers at the ready. Aside from that, there's no denying the power of twin daggers for dot AND ease of tagging. I'm more likely to get peeved at saber/knuckle/whateverknockback/launchingweaponhaveyou who break up non-threatening groups of enemies, slowing down the party's general kill rate.


See, this is what I assumed, yet in a thread about most used weapon, many people said they HATED the Twin Dags.


________
PORTABLE VAPORIZERS (http://vaporizer.org/portable)

Maxurion
Dec 15, 2006, 03:18 PM
Twin Daggers are my favourite of all the melee weapons. I love being able to hit all enemies around me, it comes in handy when I'm swarmed (which happens a lot since I solo a lot). They also have lots of pp due to the high regen/low pp cost.

I also use Twin Sabers to knock enemies away when I'm low on hp. Something you should know though, the last attack of the Renkai Buyou-Zan PA only knocks away 2 enemies from what I've seen.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Maxurion on 2006-12-15 12:19 ]</font>

AeraLure
Dec 15, 2006, 03:23 PM
I can understand how people might dislike the style of a particular weapon etc. No biggie really and I understand the draw to the double saber for some, the axe for others. Twin Daggers are my favorite weapon though, not having yet gotten my hunters to the level where they could even use Twin Claws probably (havent even bothered to look, cant afford to buy them if I could equip them anyway and I am not playing my hunters now as it is) I cant say as to anything knocking Twin Daggers from the throne for at least my own personal preference. What can I say? I loved daggers in PSO too, and they werent terribly popular or common there either.

edit: And no, just because I like them the best in terms of style etc does not imply I dont use simple common sense per the situation and choose the best weapon there, especially in a party environment. That's an entirely different thread and discussion, or at least was not how I shaped my initial reply, since we then get into the best weapon overall, or the best weapon per situation.. etc.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AeraLure on 2006-12-15 12:44 ]</font>

CyarVictor
Dec 15, 2006, 03:25 PM
I just use them more so to fill my gauge for my Sturm Buster, a gauge restorative weapon in a sense. I prefer the single dagger since it hits fasts, moves around to prevent hits on you, and has good flinch/knockdown capabilities. The twins don't have stopping power to cause flinching in the first two stages and usually I'm interrupted before the third combo. Well, even then I use my single claw/railgun and fists more than anything else because they get the job done. OMFG.WTF.BBQ.PWNAGE

MORB
Dec 15, 2006, 03:39 PM
I don't hate them. They are a viable and useful thing to have in a lot of situation, but there are plenty of situations where other weapons are more practical (for instance against a bunch of worms like you find in desert terror, a pistol/dagger combo is much more effective and satisfying)

The third stage of the PA is not something you want to use in any situation, because it's not just damage anymore, it also scatters your easy to AoE damage pack of enemies all over the place, so it can be counter productive in a lot of situations and piss other people off, too.

But I like to switch weapons all the time. Unless it's something like C dragan speed run, where I mostly just spam the full PA combo.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MORB on 2006-12-15 12:39 ]</font>

etlitch
Dec 15, 2006, 03:41 PM
</3 anyone that uses knockback moves. I don't like knockback moves in general.

jarek99
Dec 15, 2006, 03:52 PM
I've been kicked out of a group for using twin daggers. Some people are just idiots. I wont apologize for using the best weapon in the game. Some weapons like the spear or axe require you to get enemies lined up just right. But with twin daggers, just jump into the pile of monsters and watch them fall. Its a great weapon and can be used in most situations.

Bast
Dec 15, 2006, 04:33 PM
I haven't voted because of my lack of experience with Twin Daggers and their PA. I have to give them a try. Before I hated the Sword and Spear, but now I use them almost exclusively. Definitely want to give them a chance, I'll vote once I do.

Kard
Dec 15, 2006, 04:40 PM
Enemies tend to line themselves up quite nicely for dus daggas, though. One example that comes to mind is your typical vahra/beastman type that enjoys alot of swarming - run in from the side while they're preoccupied with someone else and pork 'em to death. Yes, I decided to use that term here, simply because it's filtered in game. Sub-bosses and end-bosses are also no-brainers for the spear.

That being said, along with my love for twin dags, I've no qualms with filling the palette with twin daggers and leaving one space for my halbanata, and possibly another for a gun/dag combo if I think it's necessary.

Cav
Dec 15, 2006, 04:56 PM
Paladins and twin daggers are ezmode imo.

DONTOSE
Dec 15, 2006, 05:02 PM
I love twin daggers thier the only weapons i use with that 360 Degree attack I destroy every thing around me with in rang of my blades...

Maridia
Dec 15, 2006, 05:03 PM
They are my main melee weapon and I love them to bits. My biggest problem is that as a wartecher I can't get up past level 20 and oh how I love the third combo.. I may just switch classes simply to use PAs over 20. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

Legenden
Dec 15, 2006, 05:06 PM
Me and all us Wartechers loves our future S-Rank Dual daggers:)

Gamemako
Dec 15, 2006, 05:12 PM
People bitch about them because they're so common, not because of their power. Of course, they're common because EVEN FORCES CAN USE THEM, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE! They're second only to spears in terms of usability, and spears have also been ragged on for being too damn common.

Relam
Dec 15, 2006, 05:23 PM
I don't understand whats not to to like. Seriously? Why the hell would someone boot you for using them?

First of all, if there's a force in your group, it makes it so that you don't send monsters flying everywhere outside of their casts as they cast it. 2nd, not only is that beneficial to Forces, but even for hunters. Everyone who spams 2nd level one handed dagger, or saber sends monsters flying everywhere. This means the person with a twin saber or spear who uses their PA as you send a monster flying just wasted about 20 PP.

Finally why the hell would you not want the damage output it has? The only way it's doing too much damage is if you're a level 30+ using it in a C rank. In that case, WHY are you playing C-Ranks with other people with lower lvls? Move on! And it's not even like it's doing that much damage. Twin Sabers or a Spear do much more.

Seriously I don't understand why anyone would hate twin daggers, unless you're in a group where everyone is using twin daggers. In which case, adapt to the situation and if you need crowd control bust out a one handed saber or something.

Yoiyami
Dec 15, 2006, 05:43 PM
The only reason why I would hate twin daggers is because most people that use them mistake themselves for a human tornado and run headfirst into mobs. So, they're always in the yellow, always getting pummeled and as a force, you seriously have to babysit them because the moment you don't, they die because they went down faster than they could pop a mate.

Strategy is important. A lot of twin dagger users ignore this to spam their PA. Even if it may do a lot of damage, the person with them become more of a liability to their party because they lack basic strategy. DON'T. GET. SURROUNDED. But other than that, twins can be pretty fun and I personally have nothing against people that use them. Just have sense. ^_^

Mystil
Dec 15, 2006, 05:49 PM
Even I do not like how the 3rd PA of the dagger attack sends monsters literally flying in all directions. If I do it, it's by accident.

Relam
Dec 15, 2006, 05:50 PM
Oh I understand that totally. Nothing annoys me more as a Wartecher when I can't really go into combat because a lower level hunter is being retarded and stuck with my wand out to make sure I heal because I have no idea how long the loading lag will effect me on my ps2.

DoubleJG
Dec 15, 2006, 06:31 PM
They're awesome.

Weak
Dec 15, 2006, 07:26 PM
It has the most PP efficient and destructive PA around, as far as I'm concerned.

The full PA does around 300-400 daamge to 3 enemies around you, for 9 hits. I'm really surprised that people don't talk more about how ridiculously strong they are.

Gamemako
Dec 15, 2006, 08:26 PM
Why don't people?

Because they aren't particularly high ATP weapons. Grab a grinded spear, dus daggas level 30. 400 more ATP. Makes a big honkin' difference.

Weak
Dec 15, 2006, 08:38 PM
On 2006-12-15 17:26, Gamemako wrote:
Why don't people?

Because they aren't particularly high ATP weapons. Grab a grinded spear, dus daggas level 30. 400 more ATP. Makes a big honkin' difference.



ATT isn't anything to base an arguement on. If you look at Axes, they have twice as much as spears, but spears do just as much damage and are quicker.

If you want to make comparisons, look at raw damage on enemies, and element percentages.

JAR
Dec 15, 2006, 08:53 PM
I do like the Twin Daggers myself, it was the first item another player gifted me(Props to Talos265, you're my boy!), and therefore became my original weapon of choice. Now I have to admit that I get kinda bored using them because the combo is very monotonous, but they are without a doubt the best mob clearing weapon I have ever used, I know they lack the reach and damage of the sword but the speed can't be beat. Since having overused them in the past, I now prefer the single dagger/gun combo(Ideal for Figunners) and can fully understand why people could be annoyed at people spamming them. The only funny thing with this topic is that 6 people voted that they hate them at the time of my post and not one of them has posted why. Are they jealous or just really stuck up? Please explain...

ssl118
Dec 15, 2006, 08:57 PM
Twin Daggers are awesome! They deal decent amount of FAST damage. The knockback is great. I feel guilty only using them sometimes but so far they've gotten me out of a lot of tight spots. They're nice on LL S for keeping the Deljabans on the ground and therefore not throwing megid at you. Untill some better looking double sabers come out or I level up my Twin Claw PA I will probably be using them almost exclusively. I think my palette as of now has one set of Twin Sabers (for PA lvling) one set of Twin Handguns (I'm Fighgunner and feel guilty not using them, plus they're sweet), one dagger gun combo, and the rest different element Twin Daggers. They were my first PA to hit 30 so that alone is a testament of my love for them.

omegapirate2k
Dec 15, 2006, 09:01 PM
I purchased an assino-zashi (5* yohmei dual daggers, with a 20 something% light element, and GRINDED 3 times, nonetheless) for like 14k before all the updates and they're really nice, I soloed a bit in linear line B to power up their PA, but I don't spam them, I try to use all my weapons evenly. One of the best things I do with them is to get somebody to distract a whole mob of S enemies and get them to shoot techs at them while I run into the center of the group and tear them apart without even taking a hit.

onami
Dec 15, 2006, 10:51 PM
Nope. I love when people use em. As a Fortetecher, it keeps the mobs bunched up for me ;p

Garnet_Moon
Dec 15, 2006, 10:55 PM
I love Twin Daggers lv1-20. I don't like the 21+ one because everything goes flying around the room. It's not that I can't tag them all, no... usually when the 3rd PA is used all the mobs bum rush me; they completely ignore the melee guy who uses the PA, and chose to harass the softer target so they aren't thrown like ragdolls. ;-;

Gamemako
Dec 15, 2006, 11:14 PM
On 2006-12-15 17:38, Weak wrote:

On 2006-12-15 17:26, Gamemako wrote:
Why don't people?

Because they aren't particularly high ATP weapons. Grab a grinded spear, dus daggas level 30. 400 more ATP. Makes a big honkin' difference.



ATT isn't anything to base an arguement on. If you look at Axes, they have twice as much as spears, but spears do just as much damage and are quicker.

If you want to make comparisons, look at raw damage on enemies, and element percentages.



I will clarify:

The spear does twice as much damage as the dagger in Newman hands.

Alisha
Dec 15, 2006, 11:25 PM
im not a fan. twin daggars have horrible atp. the best ones you can get offline hvae barely 200 atp. i also dont like how close you have to get to use them. the pa's also lack utility both the pa's you get offline for them cant knockback till lvl 21 and neither can knock up.


On 2006-12-15 17:38, Weak wrote:

On 2006-12-15 17:26, Gamemako wrote:
Why don't people?

Because they aren't particularly high ATP weapons. Grab a grinded spear, dus daggas level 30. 400 more ATP. Makes a big honkin' difference.



ATT isn't anything to base an arguement on. If you look at Axes, they have twice as much as spears, but spears do just as much damage and are quicker.

If you want to make comparisons, look at raw damage on enemies, and element percentages.



the problem with this is that buyou and tornado break have roughly the same pa% but sword have much higher atp. thats why i think twin daggars are great early on but fall out of favor at later levels. plus i always get crappy %'s on twin daggars but i get real nice ones on swords.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-12-15 20:32 ]</font>

Merumeru
Dec 15, 2006, 11:25 PM
envious i cant use em XD thats about it, they're nice weapons, ill admit

AnamanaAU
Dec 15, 2006, 11:45 PM
Cry more. Is it me or did everyone go the whiner class in PSU?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JubeiSaotome on 2006-12-15 20:46 ]</font>

Bleemo
Dec 16, 2006, 12:46 AM
Fortefighter = 9 PP Renkai Buyou-zan.

Fortefighter + Nokoku-zashi = 6 PP tick recharge.

Delicious.

VanHalen
Dec 16, 2006, 12:48 AM
no my little sister uses twin daggers all the time and she kinda got me to use them from time to time but she could switch weapons sometimes though im not saying they bother me but like dont you wanna use your other cool weapons

500 POST WOOOOOOOO



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: VanHalen on 2006-12-15 21:49 ]</font>

CelestialBlade
Dec 16, 2006, 12:51 AM
They're good for crowd control if you've got the defense to go with it, since you're going to have to be in very close range with a ton of enemies for it to be useful, so expect some hits. Personally I like putting a little distance between myself and the enemies with my Spear or Twin Saber, but it's all personal preference. If you know how to use Twin Daggers, they do rock.

Turambar
Dec 16, 2006, 12:59 AM
I find Twin Daggers broken. No, I don't despise them. Heck, I even used them when I was lvling my char to lv 10 HU for if I ever want to make it a Fortefigher instead of gunner. But never the less, it is broken. The good points that everyone mentions certainly stands. Its ability to hit everything around you three times, then 2, then 3 again, and the kb. It often out damages all other lv 21+ PAs, even against a single enemy.

But you can also start to see how twin daggers are just a bit too dominant compared to litterally any other melee weapon in almost every battle situation. I personally would like to see a nerf of it though I know its never going to happen.

rush340
Dec 16, 2006, 01:17 AM
On 2006-12-15 12:09, Nightmarexlc wrote:
i picked "dont care". I'm not a fan of the weap, but thats just me. they do nice damage so it makes my job easier http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Side note: with so many ppl using that weapon... ive yet to see the 3rd hit of the twin dagger PA T_T



As soon as I hit lvl 10 hunter, I'll have it. The PA was maxed out at 20 before my character hit level 20 http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

I only use twin daggers as of now, once I'm a forteFighter I'll start leveling another PA (thinking about twin claws and twin sabers)

PaladinRPG
Dec 16, 2006, 06:10 AM
I do agree that of all the weapon classes, twin dagger is the only one I would actually nerf. The cheapness of such an effective killing PA when used properly is mind-boggling. But, this not witstanding, it's my mainline, general situation. Grab daggers and a spear (along with your single handed weapon of choice), and you're ready to dish out the pain to anything out there, IMO. If you are a beast especially, a higher base ATP just makes the multiple hits even sweeter...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PaladinRPG on 2006-12-16 03:12 ]</font>

Alisha
Dec 16, 2006, 06:15 AM
what if you dont like twin daggars or spears though? are you gonna be left in the dust by those that do use them?

Shiro_Ryuu
Dec 16, 2006, 08:17 AM
Im suprised that Renkai Buyou Zan is even the first PA you get, looking at its performance, one would think that this is the kind of PA that you would get from trading PA frags. Anyway, I love Twin Daggers, they are so awesome, I just like how fast they are.

Lit
Dec 16, 2006, 09:12 AM
I started using them before cause they hit all around me to "tag" and then I switch them off to something I wanna Lvl.

But it is true Twin dagger is really strong and fast to lvl upp PA and maybe overpowered?
Its the spinning thingie that makes them so freaky and PA lvl from it while other PA you have to hit 4-5 times to get 1% up

But just as it said...

Hunter for Beginner
Ranger for Intermediate
Forces for Expert

Maybe true hehe /love

Neith
Dec 16, 2006, 09:32 AM
I hate Twin Daggers. I think the combo is awkward-looking (as in, not well animated), and it puts me off. I don't like Renkai Buyou-zan either.

I think to say I hate the people who use Twin Daggers is a bit much, it depends on the person, and how they use the weapon.

I will say however, that I think Twin Daggers are a bit overused because they're so destructive. I just hate the animation.

Shiro_Ryuu
Dec 16, 2006, 11:41 AM
well, I won't hate anyone who uses Renkai Buyou Zan unless its some level 50 guy in a C mission who's hogging all of the exp. I had a bad experience of doing the LL C w/ my frineds when I was just starting and this level 18 Cast Hunter came w/ twin daggers and just kept using Renkai Buyou Zan on all of the weak monsters, hogging all of the exp which probably wouldn't even help him much cuz he was level 18 and the monsters in LL C give cheap exp.