Best race for a Wartecher? [Archive]

Gamemako

Dec 17, 2006, 01:44 PM

CASTs have monster ATA, which allows them to attack effectively from the front (directed at Shima http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif), making them good skill spammers. They also have more HP to take advantage of the 130% bonus as well as the best DFP in the business (equal to that of beasts). They have better ATP than humans as well. With self-buffs, they're monster soloing machines (ho ho, the unintended pun!). The things CAST wartechers lose are the offensive techniques and the EVP/MST bonuses. But they get SUV weapons too.

[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2006-12-17 10:45 ]

-Shimarisu-

Dec 17, 2006, 02:03 PM

[02:43] <Argus> human male, 50/1, 306 atp, cast male, 50/1, 324 atp really it's negligible.
[02:45] <Argus> uh, 60/10, human=486, cast=513
[02:45] <Argus> it's ziltch.
[02:45] <Argus> plus remeber, you are melee
[02:45] <Argus> humans get much better mst too.
[02:47] <Argus> ata wise 50/1 human=111, 50/1 cast=124
[02:49] <Argus> 60/10 human=169, cast=190

Can't be bothered paring down the IRC quotes. Time for bed.

Careful

Dec 17, 2006, 02:49 PM

You lose SUV and nanoblast if you pick a human or newman.

DonRoyale

Dec 17, 2006, 03:37 PM

All of you shut up. Newman Wartechers are the best, period. >:C

Ffuzzy-Logik

Dec 17, 2006, 03:41 PM

Beast Wartecher is good, since the only techs a Wartecher should really ever need to use (for most occasions, not all) are Resta, Reverser, and the buffs once we get them.

If you can live with the piss-poor ATA, the Beast is the way to go.

Gojin

Dec 17, 2006, 03:42 PM

newman wartecher ftw

DonRoyale

Dec 17, 2006, 03:48 PM

I wrote a guide about Wartechers, and I've explained the order of races from worst to best at being a Wartecher were:

4. CAST (Cast Wartechers aren't too good, but it's worth the challenge, kind of like a Beast Guntecher)
3. Humans (Doesn't help that they have second-lowest ATP AND ATA. Fail =()
2. Beast (Sure, the ATA sucks. Boost it. Wait for Zoldial. Whatever, they're absurdly powerful and the ultimate solo class. Period.)
1. Newman (Ownage stats. Nuff said.)

People have only voted humans as the best because humans are easy to raise any class. What, you people don't want to try? You all fail >:C

mech259_

Dec 17, 2006, 04:14 PM

On 2006-12-17 12:48, SereneShadows wrote:
I wrote a guide about Wartechers, and I've explained the order of races from worst to best at being a Wartecher were:

4. CAST (Cast Wartechers aren't too good, but it's worth the challenge, kind of like a Beast Guntecher)
3. Humans (Doesn't help that they have second-lowest ATP AND ATA. Fail =()
2. Beast (Sure, the ATA sucks. Boost it. Wait for Zoldial. Whatever, they're absurdly powerful and the ultimate solo class. Period.)
1. Newman (Ownage stats. Nuff said.)

People have only voted humans as the best because humans are easy to raise any class. What, you people don't want to try? You all fail >:C

Hahahahahahahaha
Cast wartechers are as bad as beast guntechers, and they are a challenge?

Oh, but newmans are the best because they have 'ownage' stats. If by ownage you mean horrible then yes, you're right. =)

jizaboz

Dec 17, 2006, 04:20 PM

Should a cast really be anything but a Ranger?

mech259_

Dec 17, 2006, 04:21 PM

Casts have the best ATA and very high ATP also. They make good hunters.

And any race that's good at being a hunter also makes a good wartecher, because wartechers are pretty much hunters that can heal and use buffs.

(Newmans are very bad hunters.)

Delinguaniss

Dec 17, 2006, 04:33 PM

I'm picking human, but wherre the hell are the Cast for this poll?

happy_cricket

Dec 17, 2006, 04:36 PM

On 2006-12-17 13:20, jizaboz wrote:
Should a cast really be anything but a Ranger?

Typical meatsack, trying to tell us what we can and can't be. Here's a question... should humans really be anything but planetless slobs?

Oh yeah. I went there.

ShinMaruku

Dec 17, 2006, 05:18 PM

On 2006-12-17 13:36, happy_cricket wrote:

On 2006-12-17 13:20, jizaboz wrote:
Should a cast really be anything but a Ranger?

Typical meatsack, trying to tell us what we can and can't be. Here's a question... should humans really be anything but planetless slobs?

Oh yeah. I went there.

As humans are the originators and the template all them planets are their but they ain't goin all Dark Dragon Blade on them...
As for best wartecher, what you want. If ya wnat Cell cast. Want the Hulk, beast, want Arrargon pick Dunedain

Shiro_Ryuu

Dec 17, 2006, 05:30 PM

ya, CASTs are good Hunters, but their physical stats are only slightly better than Humans who have better EVP, MST, and TAP(as a Wartecher, you may need it for things such as Tengohgs or other melee-resistant monsters.

Gojin

Dec 17, 2006, 06:10 PM

Gamemako

Dec 17, 2006, 06:55 PM

On 2006-12-17 11:03, -Shimarisu- wrote:
[02:43] <Argus> human male, 50/1, 306 atp, cast male, 50/1, 324 atp really it's negligible.
[02:45] <Argus> uh, 60/10, human=486, cast=513
[02:45] <Argus> it's ziltch.
[02:45] <Argus> plus remeber, you are melee
[02:45] <Argus> humans get much better mst too.
[02:47] <Argus> ata wise 50/1 human=111, 50/1 cast=124
[02:49] <Argus> 60/10 human=169, cast=190

Can't be bothered paring down the IRC quotes. Time for bed.

Human 111, CAST 124. Newman fits in there where? There is an entire race in between those two. I have to be curious.

DonRoyale

Dec 17, 2006, 08:58 PM

On 2006-12-17 13:21, mech259_ wrote:
Casts have the best ATA and very high ATP also. They make good hunters.

And any race that's good at being a hunter also makes a good wartecher, because wartechers are pretty much hunters that can heal and use buffs.

(Newmans are very bad hunters.)

You obviously haven't taken into account that Newman Wartechers have the option of using attack techs >>

Or the fact that CAST Wartechers will take about 10 casts of Resta to heal himself, much less a beast. By the time you cast Resta the third time after running low on HP in a fight, either

A) The enemy/enemies that hurt you are already dead
B) You get hit again and get killed.

It's pretty sad, seeing a class try something they know they can't do. Other examples include:

Newman Fortefighters
Beast Fortegunners
Cast Fortetechers
Beast Guntechers
Newman Fighgunners
Newman Protransers

Admit it, all of the above horribly fail.

happy_cricket

Dec 17, 2006, 09:02 PM

What fails is playing the game, doing everything you possibly can to make it easy, then going online to combo complaining how boring the game is/ boasting that you have never died.

Bleemo

Dec 17, 2006, 09:05 PM

Beast Wartecher = Melee oriented, tech use for support/damaging physical resistant mobs.

Human Wartecher = Melee/Tech balance.

Cast Wartecher = Can pewpew well with handgun offhand. Other than that... lol.

Newman Wartecher = lol@gimpfortetecher

UltimateCarl

Dec 17, 2006, 09:20 PM

Okay, so I don't have one, yet (working on a Human Wartecher, though) so I really can't say, but are these other combinations really that bad?

I don't see where a Cast Wartecher is much worse than a Beast. Sure, your ATP is a little bit lower, but you've got a lot of ATA, and that's got to count for something. You lose some MST and HP, but there's a boost to DFP, and for players who hate evasion interrupting PAs, Casts could be the answer. As far as TP goes, it's not important for buffs, and for Resta, Beast TP isn't too much better, is it?

For Newmans, they also have really high ATA, and the highest EVD to compliment Wartecher's second highest, along with awesome MST for those techs you can't dodge. Also their TP makes for good Resta and makes offensive Techs an option. Also, Newmans get a stat bonus for being Wartechers just like Humans.

So, if I'm just ignorant and there's some point that I'm missing that makes these others just terrible, please correct me. But until then, I'm holding out that SEGA did their job with balancing and "lolnewmanssucks" isn't going to convince me.

Kent

Dec 17, 2006, 09:24 PM

Being that it's, well, stupid to waste potential that your type has, and that Wartecher has potential in all three styles of combat - most people put too much focus on melee combat, and ignore attack techniques, and longbows (which are very powerful, even with the level 10 bullet cap) - a race that is suited to using all of these well, would be the best choice, at least in theory.

Of course, you can pick whatever you feel like, and adjust accordingly, picking out your race's specialty and using the others to a lesser extent. Obviously, if you want to be able to do all of them more or less equally well, then Human would be the obvious choice. If you feel like specializing in just two parts, though, you may be better off picking a different type.

Gamemako

Dec 17, 2006, 09:32 PM

Wow, who brought on the retarded?

SereneShadows, a beast Wartecher can with proper equipment push out 600 HP resta. A CAST wartecher might eventually hit 400. And if you're a newman wartecher and you're healing yourself in the middle of a mob of enemies, I'm amazed you've gotten this far. My 1K HP doesn't suffice when I'm getting facefucked in a mob of enemies while trying to heal. Beast guntechers can be alright because their S-rank weaponry doesn't require high ATA (come on now, twin handguns?).

Bleemo, I have a strange feeling you've never used a wartecher, or even touched a force at all. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything at all. As Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain was his pen name) once said, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." Essentially, STFU and GTFO.

Bleemo

Dec 17, 2006, 09:35 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:32, Gamemako wrote:
Bleemo, I have a strange feeling you've never used a wartecher, or even touched a force at all. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything at all. As Samuel Clemens (Mark Twain was his pen name) once said, "It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt." Essentially, STFU and GTFO.
I laugh at this.

Pretty hard.

You, obviously don't know what you're talking about.

Like where this is going?

mech259_

Dec 17, 2006, 09:45 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:05, Bleemo wrote:
Cast Wartecher = Can pewpew well with handgun offhand. Other than that... lol.

Yes, the only thing a cast wartecher is good at is using a gun in his offhand. I mean, they have horrible ATP, they could never actually melee...And their TP is so much worse than a beast's, their resta heals for like 1 HP.

On 2006-12-17 17:58, SereneShadows wrote:

You obviously haven't taken into account that Newman Wartechers have the option of using attack techs >>

Then why not just become a fortetecher? Your melee is horrible as a newman wartecher anyways.

Or the fact that CAST Wartechers will take about 10 casts of Resta to heal himself, much less a beast. By the time you cast Resta the third time after running low on HP in a fight, either

A) The enemy/enemies that hurt you are already dead
B) You get hit again and get killed.

10 restas? lol. I'm sure you haven't updated your sig for a while and you actually have more characters than just a lv30 newman wartecher, right? I mean, you must have played a cast wartecher to say stuff like this. And you've definetly played all 4 wartechers to be able to right a guide on them. I've never ran into either of those two problems.

It's pretty sad, seeing a class try something they know they can't do.

For example, using a newman wartecher to melee? And if you tell me you don't melee, then why not be a fortetecher.

Bleemo

Dec 17, 2006, 09:51 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:45, mech259_ wrote:

On 2006-12-17 18:05, Bleemo wrote:
Cast Wartecher = Can pewpew well with handgun offhand. Other than that... lol.

Yes, the only thing a cast wartecher is good at is using a gun in his offhand. I mean, they have horrible ATP, they could never actually melee...And their TP is so much worse than a beast's, their resta heals for like 1 HP.

Their TP is worse. Resta isn't the only tech that requires TP. Wartechers use their techs for actual damage, and Cast techs are kind of saddening. I've seen Beast Wartecher techs, and the damage is surprising. Not to mention the TP requirements on wands. But, hey, I'm not about to start a debate on what I've seen.

Bascially, you're only going to be good at meleeing and shooting that offhand weapon.

Gamemako

Dec 17, 2006, 09:53 PM

mech, to number your arguments:

1. CASTs can't even equip good wands. I'm not sure they can even equip the 7-star wand (Cometara) with the current caps. They really don't heal more than 400. Which is less than 1/4 of their full HP.

2. Damn, I didn't realise 300-damage unbuffed dus daggas with a 5-star ungrinded spear was horrible. My bad, man. Thanks for correcting us all.

3. It does take a ton of PP for a CAST to heal himself. Refer to 1. And it's "I've never run" -- learn English.

4. Refer to 2.

Bleemo, are you going to argue my point? DO YOU HAVE A WARTECHER? DO YOU HAVE ANY FORCE AT ALL? Answer the question.

Bleemo

Dec 17, 2006, 09:55 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:53, Gamemako wrote:
Bleemo, are you going to argue my point? DO YOU HAVE A WARTECHER? DO YOU HAVE ANY FORCE AT ALL? Answer the question.

My friend, if you believe that one must experience to have knowledge, you are sadly mistaken.

Have fun with your disgustingly low ATP.

Nestahima

Dec 17, 2006, 09:55 PM

I left CASTs out of the poll just because of their total lack of TP/MST.

I don't even want to see a debate on CASTs, lol. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Gamemako

Dec 17, 2006, 09:59 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:55, Bleemo wrote:

On 2006-12-17 18:53, Gamemako wrote:
Bleemo, are you going to argue my point? DO YOU HAVE A WARTECHER? DO YOU HAVE ANY FORCE AT ALL? Answer the question.

My friend, if you believe that one must experience to have knowledge, you are sadly mistaken.

Have fun with your disgustingly low ATP.

I love it. Pure genius. Newman ATP + arm slot = human ATP.

Bleemo

Dec 17, 2006, 10:05 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:59, Gamemako wrote:
Newman ATP + arm slot = human ATP.

So, what's that level/base ATP of yours?(les be proofashional heer n not us arm slots lol)

Shiro_Ryuu

Dec 17, 2006, 10:10 PM

well, as a Fortetecher, especially a Newman, you could get yourself one-shotted or something, at least you have some sturdiness as a Wartecher with better HP, DFP, and you still have good EVP, you have the option of meleeing when your PP for the wands run out, and Newmans can use attack increasing, accuracy decreasing units and will be most suited to them since they have the best ATA of the fleshies. For CAST Wartechers, I don't think they may be bad, but they're talents and potential may be wasted, giving up alot of S rank blades, level 30 PAs, and ATP for a few techs, I think they'd be better off as Fortefighters or Fighgunners for melee, or for techs, Guntecher. Sure, CASTs are good Hunters, but not much better than Humans.

Nestahima

Dec 17, 2006, 10:16 PM

Also, let us remember that the Newman Wartecher will also be able to use buffs when they are available. Not that other races wouldn't be able to, but they might at least bring them to be on par with other classes.

Shiro_Ryuu

Dec 17, 2006, 10:19 PM

true, although they are bad candidates for megistar which sux up hp, although its nothing resta can't deal with.

Para

Dec 17, 2006, 10:36 PM

On 2006-12-17 19:16, Nestahima wrote:
Also, let us remember that the Newman Wartecher will also be able to use buffs when they are available. Not that other races wouldn't be able to, but they might at least bring them to be on par with other classes.

The thing is... I think wartecher will be much better in some areas.. Consider support of his/her own NPCs and using techs to fight like in endrum.. a newman would fare better in endrum than a human wartecher solo wise.

The one thing that I have an issue with newman wartecher is the ATP. If they had a bit more ATP to use twin claws or claw weapons where the damage is for melee, I think newman wartechers would do better than human wartecher.

Laranas

Dec 17, 2006, 10:44 PM

Not to bring experience into the equation, but lets look at my Human Wartechers (Lv 60/3) abilities:
Melee Damage: ~100 a hit with Twin Daggers (non ele)
Ranged Damage: ~270 a hit with Bow (non ele), ~110 a hit with cards (non ele)
Tech Damage: ~650 with Diga, ~750 with resta

I'm pretty sure that makes me a pretty good addition to the party, I don't miss too much, can stay in the mission a lot longer than everyone else PP wise.. not the mention the only person who survived everything Onmagoug threw at the party.

-Shimarisu-

Dec 17, 2006, 10:48 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:05, Bleemo wrote:
Beast Wartecher = Melee oriented, tech use for support/damaging physical resistant mobs.

Human Wartecher = Melee/Tech balance.

Cast Wartecher = Can pewpew well with handgun offhand. Other than that... lol.

Newman Wartecher = lol@gimpfortetecher

Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel about it.

Alisha

Dec 17, 2006, 11:03 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:59, Gamemako wrote:

On 2006-12-17 18:55, Bleemo wrote:

On 2006-12-17 18:53, Gamemako wrote:
Bleemo, are you going to argue my point? DO YOU HAVE A WARTECHER? DO YOU HAVE ANY FORCE AT ALL? Answer the question.

My friend, if you believe that one must experience to have knowledge, you are sadly mistaken.

Have fun with your disgustingly low ATP.

I love it. Pure genius. Newman ATP + arm slot = human ATP.

thats not entirely true because bonuses from units are added after the fact,and are not factored into gun/skill/tech %'s

DonRoyale

Dec 17, 2006, 11:06 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:32, Gamemako wrote:
Wow, who brought on the retarded?

SereneShadows, a beast Wartecher can with proper equipment push out 600 HP resta. A CAST wartecher might eventually hit 400. And if you're a newman wartecher and you're healing yourself in the middle of a mob of enemies, I'm amazed you've gotten this far. My 1K HP doesn't suffice when I'm getting facefucked in a mob of enemies while trying to heal. Beast guntechers can be alright because their S-rank weaponry doesn't require high ATA (come on now, twin handguns?).

You're the one that brought on the retarded here.

First of all, you're saying "proper equipment" and "push out". Dude, you obviously haven't realized that a good armor can provide a defense slot, as well as an MST slot. So while you go ahead and push for 600 Resta heal, I'll be over here, LETTING MYSELF GET HIT JUST TO LEVEL MY RESTA. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_lol.gif

Sure, you may have low HP as a Newman Wartecher. But if I'm getting facefucked, I'm definentely not gonna go "OMG I'LL HEAL BUT I WON'T TRY TO RUN TO SAVE MYSELF IN THE PROCESS! LOLOLOLOL" If you do that, that's just dumb, GTFO my intranets, kthnx.

And Beast Guntechers? Please, don't make me laugh. Any class can be good, but really, there are just some classes that weren't meant to be. (You can play them, go ahead, but while you struggle, I'll be here soloing S-Rank missions, kthnx)

Mech: Buffs. The whole reason someone picks a Wartecher in the first place. Or a Guntecher, for that matter.

Sure, we don't have them now. We'll eventually get them. The SMART Wartechers and Guntechers realize that. People like you obviously don't.

Oh, but we'll just see what happens when Wartechers become the most versatile class in the game with buffs, and watch as the other races fail to the Newmans. >>

mech259_

Dec 17, 2006, 11:06 PM

On 2006-12-17 18:53, Gamemako wrote:
mech, to number your arguments:

1. CASTs can't even equip good wands. I'm not sure they can even equip the 7-star wand (Cometara) with the current caps. They really don't heal more than 400. Which is less than 1/4 of their full HP.

2. Damn, I didn't realise 300-damage unbuffed dus daggas with a 5-star ungrinded spear was horrible. My bad, man. Thanks for correcting us all.

3. It does take a ton of PP for a CAST to heal himself. Refer to 1. And it's "I've never run" -- learn English.

4. Refer to 2.

Bleemo, are you going to argue my point? DO YOU HAVE A WARTECHER? DO YOU HAVE ANY FORCE AT ALL? Answer the question.

Yeah, you're right. I was wrong all along.

Cast wartechers are horrible. Sure, they can melee well, use guns well, and cast buffs, but they can't do the most important part of being a wartecher: Cast damage techs and heal someone in yellow to max HP in one resta.

On 2006-12-17 20:06, SereneShadows wrote:

Mech: Buffs. The whole reason someone picks a Wartecher in the first place. Or a Guntecher, for that matter.

Sure, we don't have them now. We'll eventually get them. The SMART Wartechers and Guntechers realize that. People like you obviously don't.

Oh, but we'll just see what happens when Wartechers become the most versatile class in the game with buffs, and watch as the other races fail to the Newmans. >>

Oh right, I forgot that only newmens can use buffs.

[ This Message was edited by: mech259_ on 2006-12-17 20:08 ]

DonRoyale

Dec 17, 2006, 11:11 PM

On 2006-12-17 20:06, mech259_ wrote:

On 2006-12-17 20:06, SereneShadows wrote:

Mech: Buffs. The whole reason someone picks a Wartecher in the first place. Or a Guntecher, for that matter.

Sure, we don't have them now. We'll eventually get them. The SMART Wartechers and Guntechers realize that. People like you obviously don't.

Oh, but we'll just see what happens when Wartechers become the most versatile class in the game with buffs, and watch as the other races fail to the Newmans. >>

Oh right, I forgot that only newmens can use buffs well.

[ This Message was edited by: mech259_ on 2006-12-17 20:08 ]

There, I fixed your quote.

My Spidey Sense is tingling. Methinks a flame war will ensue from this. Mods? Do us a favor and lock this before that happens, we don't want to see anyone banned, now do we? D=

mech259_

Dec 17, 2006, 11:15 PM

On 2006-12-17 20:11, SereneShadows wrote:

On 2006-12-17 20:06, mech259_ wrote:

On 2006-12-17 20:06, SereneShadows wrote:

Mech: Buffs. The whole reason someone picks a Wartecher in the first place. Or a Guntecher, for that matter.

Sure, we don't have them now. We'll eventually get them. The SMART Wartechers and Guntechers realize that. People like you obviously don't.

Oh, but we'll just see what happens when Wartechers become the most versatile class in the game with buffs, and watch as the other races fail to the Newmans. >>

Oh right, I forgot that only newmens can use buffs well.

[ This Message was edited by: mech259_ on 2006-12-17 20:08 ]

There, I fixed your quote.

My Spidey Sense is tingling. Methinks a flame war will ensue from this. Mods? Do us a favor and lock this before that happens, we don't want to see anyone banned, now do we? D=

Er, why would only newmans be able to use buffs well?

Bleemo

Dec 17, 2006, 11:15 PM

On 2006-12-17 20:11, SereneShadows wrote:
There, I fixed your quote.

My Spidey Sense is tingling. Methinks a flame war will ensue from this. Mods? Do us a favor and lock this before that happens, we don't want to see anyone banned, now do we? D=

TP has nothing to do with buff duration or potency, just like Reverser.

Other races can use buffs just as well as Newmans.

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-12-17 20:16 ]

-Shimarisu-

Dec 17, 2006, 11:26 PM

Another point everyone misses is despite your ATA being utter junk at job level 1, it rises so high that at job level 10, yuo are 80% the ATA of a fortefighter.

Which can be boosted considerably by units.

Given that at job level 10 your ATP is close to 4/5ths that of fortefighter OF YOUR OWN RACE too, plus you get tech damage, plus buffs for solo...

There's no reason NOT to be a beast Wartecher. But the reason not to be a NEWMAN Wartecher is the same as the reason not to be a Newman fortefighter. In fact, your ATP is going to be LOWER even with race boost.

Really, the best races are human and beast, followed by cast and newman. Beasts get their own bonues that make the class play very differently in their hands, and with HP based techs tey can deal a punch.

Casts, IMO, play it to close to human but lose too much TP to mke it worth choosing over human.

This is also a kinda controversial opinion on my part, but I really think newmen are wasted in any class but fortetecher. Christ, even the perfect bible says they were DESIGNED for this job. They get the same boosts in the hybrid classes as human to prevent them from purely SUCKING at them, and that's just the way it is.

Wartecher is a job class that can be done well by anyone, but IMO humans and beasts just get that much more from it. Yet they both play very differently.

[ This Message was edited by: -Shimarisu- on 2006-12-17 20:31 ]

DonRoyale

Dec 17, 2006, 11:29 PM

Well, fine, that brings us back to square one on our argument, and let me equate something I bet none of you thought of about S-Rank missions. You know those magic-spitters? They come to haunt your low MST (even as a Wartecher)

Beast=Prawnt
CAST=Mutilated
Human=Indifferent (This was never about them anyways >:C)
Newman=Feh, was that supposed to hurt? >=D

Then we go to the HP/Resta issue...

Beast=Highest HP, second-lowest TP. Needs proper equipment to even push half their HP in one heal.
CAST=Second-highest HP, lowest TP. Needs the best equipment they can possibly have to even push for 1/3 of their max HP. >>
Human=Indifferent
Newman=Lowest HP, but highest TP, meaning they can not only heal themselves, but heal everyone in a group for at least 2/3 HP WITHOUT slots or buffs.

Then we try the melee issue...

Beast=Highest attack and defense. They don't do well as meleers because of low ATA, and get facefucked by techs, and when soloing, struggle with healing, and therefore go through PP like water.
CAST=Second-highest HP, attack, and defense. They again get fackfucked even worse by techs, and struggle ever worse with healing. Sure, they'll hit more, but in every other way, Beasts beat CASTs at Wartecher.
Human=Again, indifferent
Newman=Lowest attack and defense. They have good ATA, and balance their abilities with the class-to-race bonus. Their MST serves them well in higher-ranked missions when facefucked by techs, and if melee is a problem, they have the best Resta.

So shut up, OK?

Mods, please lock this. This is starting to really tick me off...

-Shimarisu-

Dec 17, 2006, 11:34 PM

The people who have beast wartechers that are actually able to hit disprove your argument.

Stop trying to get a lock just to give yourself the last word.

Also, listen to people who have the raw stats in front of them, please. I can shoot down most any argument just by looking up the actual stats.

Gojin

Dec 17, 2006, 11:37 PM

so cast wartechers are better than newman wartechers? yeah that makes a lot of sense. I guess thats why there is no cast wartechers around and theres alot of newman wartechers hmm I wonder why?

-Shimarisu-

Dec 17, 2006, 11:38 PM

Also, you miss the fact that Wartechers have higher MST than Fortefighter. You are just grabbing at straws now. If MST was the most important stat for melee, all beasts and casts shuld jusdt quit the game, that or be Wartecher rather than Fortefighter, for that increased MST.

See, your logic is circuitous.

DonRoyale

Dec 17, 2006, 11:39 PM

Look, I'm not trying to say that Beast Wartechers suck. I'm trying to prove that Newman Wartechers are simply better, OK? That's the point of this topic...we're (Well, I'm not, anyways) not trying to say "OMG we're the best, all others suck lololol", we're trying to prove which race is the best Wartecher.

And by the way, I'm not trying to 'get the last word in'. I can see this evolving into a flame war, and I want to make sure that nobody gets dragged into that, because people get banned then. Nobody wants that D=

I'm trying to be civil here, but you people are just shoving your raw stubborness on me. (Shin, you're an exception, because you can prove it. >>)

EDIT: And for your information, I'm still referring to all races of WARTECHER here. Even with the boost, both Beasts and CASTs still have terrible MST. Disagree? Take two steps into LL S and tell me again.

[ This Message was edited by: SereneShadows on 2006-12-17 20:43 ]

Bleemo

Dec 17, 2006, 11:43 PM

On 2006-12-17 20:26, -Shimarisu- wrote:
This is also a kinda controversial opinion on my part, but I really think newmen are wasted in any class but fortetecher. Christ, even the perfect bible says they were DESIGNED for this job. They get the same boosts in the hybrid classes as human to prevent them from purely SUCKING at them, and that's just the way it is.
Statistically, this is true.(Or in my opinion, of course.)

Newmans do not excel at anything except casting techs. Where some classes they can fit in decently, they are still gimping the class' potential.
People tend to forget the reason they chose their Newman [inset non-fortetecher class here]. It wasn't for statistics, it was because they wanted to play a Newman. For egotistical reasons, they have to jump all over everyone who claims their stats suck, or that they are "wasting" the class. Statistically, they are. It doesn't take much observation to learn this.

On 2006-12-17 20:29, SereneShadows wrote:
Beast=Highest attack and defense. They don't do well as meleers because of low ATA, and get facefucked by techs, and when soloing, struggle with healing, and therefore go through PP like water.

Honestly, I hate it when people make claims like this.

Firstly, Beasts can exploit and abuse high Acc such as Twin Daggers, Spears, Twin Claws, etc, because we rarely miss with them and apply the highest racial ATP in the game to them. And, it just so happens the Wartecher weapon of choice is Twin Daggers, a brutal weapon for Beasts.

Secondly, accuracy isn't the huge issue for Beast as others make it out to be, especially at class level 10. Really, get a Mega / Knight, use high starred weapons, and you will rarely miss. The only issues I've experienced with accuracy as a Beast Fortefighter was with axes, but I know for a fact those issues will diminish after class level 10, even with the disgustingly low accuracy tacked on the axes.

Beast accuracy is not an issue, especially for high accuracy, multi-hit weapons.

-Shimarisu-

Dec 17, 2006, 11:44 PM

On 2006-12-17 20:37, Gojin wrote:
so cast wartechers are better than newman wartechers? yeah that makes a lot of sense. I guess thats why there is no cast wartechers around and theres alot of newman wartechers hmm I wonder why?

I never said they were better, I said they are both basically not as good as human and beast. The reason there are far more of them is because of the amount of people who went newman Force then decided later they'd kind of like the melee aspect that was so easily (lol, 3 job levels) available to them.

Also, most players are noobs who think base TP is the be-end and end-all. If you have sense you'd weigh up that on a class with already fairly gimped TP, the majority of your TP copmes from your wand no matter WHAT race you are.

And I've proven in the past that with same good wand on ALL races, a female beast can pack 4/5ths the tech damage of a female human, and 3/4s of a newman./

Then add in megiverse, the HP based attack. Suddenly the female beast, hell, a male beast, is outstripping your tech damage.

Plus at job level 10 those male and female beasts have almost 4/5ths the melee damage of their wn race's fortefighters.

There's just too many bonuses to a beast Wartecher to dismiss it in this way.

McLaughlin

Dec 17, 2006, 11:44 PM

On 2006-12-17 20:37, Gojin wrote:
so cast wartechers are better than newman wartechers? yeah that makes a lot of sense. I guess thats why there is no cast wartechers around and theres alot of newman wartechers hmm I wonder why?

Maybe it's because Casts can survive more than one hit from a Polty?

Maybe it's because they can do damage with something other than a Cane in their hands?

Maybe it's because the majority of PSU players DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT STATS. Maybe it's because THEY PLAY THEM BECAUSE THEY LIKE THEM?

Though statistically (that can't be spelled right...) Cast > Newman at Wartecher.

EDIT: They both suck at it though. It's like the blind leading the blind.

[ This Message was edited by: Zeta on 2006-12-17 20:49 ]

DonRoyale

Dec 17, 2006, 11:51 PM

Bleemo=Excuse me if my opinions are based on raw stats without buffs. You say this as if your class is covering up its flaws and everyone else isn't.

Shim=See above.

I'm seriously out of here, the lot of you can have fun getting banned, and I'll just say "I told you so."

My opinion stands, and I feel you people are beyond sharing it with. You're just too damn stubborn, and you're also too blind. But whatever, have fun getting facefucked in S-Rank missions with your low MST.

Seriously, you people just aren't even worth my time anymore.

Alisha

Dec 17, 2006, 11:56 PM

On 2006-12-17 20:51, SereneShadows wrote:
Bleemo=Excuse me if my opinions are based on raw stats without buffs. You say this as if your class is covering up its flaws and everyone else isn't.

Shim=See above.

I'm seriously out of here, the lot of you can have fun getting banned, and I'll just say "I told you so."

My opinion stands, and I feel you people are beyond sharing it with. You're just too damn stubborn, and you're also too blind. But whatever, have fun getting facefucked in S-Rank missions with your low MST.

Seriously, you people just aren't even worth my time anymore.

i assume your refering to megid? instant death is a status effect wich means lolmst. anyone thinking a newman wartecher is better than beast wartech makes me giggle. hay guys a melee fonewearl is better than a melee fomar! not.

Bleemo

Dec 17, 2006, 11:59 PM

On 2006-12-17 20:51, SereneShadows wrote:
Bleemo=Excuse me if my opinions are based on raw stats without buffs. You say this as if your class is covering up its flaws and everyone else isn't.

Shim=See above.

I'm seriously out of here, the lot of you can have fun getting banned, and I'll just say "I told you so."

My opinion stands, and I feel you people are beyond sharing it with. You're just too damn stubborn, and you're also too blind. But whatever, have fun getting facefucked in S-Rank missions with your low MST.

Seriously, you people just aren't even worth my time anymore.

You just don't quite understand how the ATA stat actually works, lol. ATA deficit is not the same as ATP deficit. They are two different stats and work differently.

Beasts have low ATA. Accuracy is another issue. If they designed Beasts to miss a mountain two feet infront of them, they wouldn't be very effective Hunters as they were designed to be. Beast ATA is practically borderline sucky Ranger. If it was anything above, Beasts would dominate the Ranger classes.

Kent

Dec 18, 2006, 12:11 AM

On 2006-12-17 20:56, Alisha wrote:
i assume your refering to megid? instant death is a status effect wich means lolmst. anyone thinking a newman wartecher is better than beast wartech makes me giggle. hay guys a melee fonewearl is better than a melee fomar! not.

I don't know for sure about this, but I've heard that if a technique or bullet hits for zero damage, then it cannot inflict its status effect. If this is true, then the importance that people place apon MST and Dark-based armor to reduce Megid damage to zero, is going toward reducing the chances of being hit with the instant incapacitation effect.

Gojin

Dec 18, 2006, 12:20 AM

On 2006-12-17 20:44, Zeta wrote:

On 2006-12-17 20:37, Gojin wrote:
so cast wartechers are better than newman wartechers? yeah that makes a lot of sense. I guess thats why there is no cast wartechers around and theres alot of newman wartechers hmm I wonder why?

Maybe it's because Casts can survive more than one hit from a Polty?

Maybe it's because they can do damage with something other than a Cane in their hands?

Maybe it's because the majority of PSU players DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT STATS. Maybe it's because THEY PLAY THEM BECAUSE THEY LIKE THEM?

Though statistically (that can't be spelled right...) Cast > Newman at Wartecher.

EDIT: They both suck at it though. It's like the blind leading the blind.

[ This Message was edited by: Zeta on 2006-12-17 20:49 ]

have you even played a newman wartecher? I play one and poltys cant even touch me so get it right, and if statistically, cast wartechers are better than newman wartechers I wonder what stats you are reading.

Gazette

Dec 18, 2006, 01:04 AM

Maybe this will clear up some of the confusion.
All these stats are for Level 60 characters at Lvl 10 Wartecher:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/jusmailuck/stats.jpg

As you can see, there are some VERY big differences, especially in TAP & HP among races.
Pull your own conclusion from this rather than baseless assumptions, that is if it even matters to you.

As I see it, Wartecher is a very versatile job, and depending on your race, you can play it in a number of styles.
If you're strong in ATP, you have level 20 PA's.
If you're strong in TAP, you have level 20 Techs.
Nothing should hold a person back from their personal choices, but if you'd like to see where you stand, well then that list should give you a good idea of how you stack up.

[ This Message was edited by: Gazette on 2006-12-17 22:05 ]

Gojin

Dec 18, 2006, 01:26 AM

On 2006-12-17 22:04, Gazette wrote:
Maybe this will clear up some of the confusion.
All these stats are for Level 60 characters at Lvl 10 Wartecher:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/jusmailuck/stats.jpg

As you can see, there are some VERY big differences, especially in TAP & HP among races.
Pull your own conclusion from this rather than baseless assumptions, that is if it even matters to you.

As I see it, Wartecher is a very versatile job, and depending on your race, you can play it in a number of styles.
If you're strong in ATP, you have level 20 PA's.
If you're strong in TAP, you have level 20 Techs.
Nothing should hold a person back from their personal choices, but if you'd like to see where you stand, well then that list should give you a good idea of how you stack up.

[ This Message was edited by: Gazette on 2006-12-17 22:05 ]

interesting with such low tp whats the point of cast being wartecher at all? ouch look at that mst too. Now look at Newman wow 700 TP good eva, ATP not much lower than a cast wartecher, but the 700 TP makes up for it with being able to use tech attacks on those mobs that are strong against physical attacks. But cast are so much better statistically though <.< You people are missing the point of wartecher. There is a techer in there for a reason.

Gamemako

Dec 18, 2006, 01:30 AM

On 2006-12-17 22:04, Gazette wrote:
Maybe this will clear up some of the confusion.
All these stats are for Level 60 characters at Lvl 10 Wartecher:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v177/jusmailuck/stats.jpg

As you can see, there are some VERY big differences, especially in TAP & HP among races.
Pull your own conclusion from this rather than baseless assumptions, that is if it even matters to you.

As I see it, Wartecher is a very versatile job, and depending on your race, you can play it in a number of styles.
If you're strong in ATP, you have level 20 PA's.
If you're strong in TAP, you have level 20 Techs.
Nothing should hold a person back from their personal choices, but if you'd like to see where you stand, well then that list should give you a good idea of how you stack up.

[ This Message was edited by: Gazette on 2006-12-17 22:05 ]

QED, eh?

By the way, I'm a 46 newman wartecher. I planned to become a wartecher from the very beginning with a second class of fortetecher (all of my chars have two classes).

I still have force 10 sitting around; I've never switched to fortetecher.

//EDIT: Gojin: The point is to be WARtecher instead of a warTECHER.

[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2006-12-17 22:33 ]

Gazette

Dec 18, 2006, 01:42 AM

I disagree with your last point there...
The point is to play the job as your strengths allow you to.
Wartecher literally is a middle of the road job in every sense of the word.

Either you're a melee fighter that can cast techs.
Or a tech user that can melee.

Either way you're playing the job as it should be since you're playing at both spectrums of your abilities.

[ This Message was edited by: Gazette on 2006-12-17 22:43 ]

-Shimarisu-

Dec 18, 2006, 01:47 AM

The majority of TP comes from a wand. Wands get a much bigger boost TP wise than your other main weapon, daggers does ATP wise.

THUS, the BASE TP is not as important as the BASE ATP.

Think of it this way. I equip, as beast wartecher, the best wands available RIGHT NOW. Let's say I use a non grinded Lidra, as thats easiest to get hold of.

OK? My TP is now 859. Yours is 1215. I'm packing nearly 3/4 your damage. With units on BOTH of us, it creeps up to the 3/4 mark.

Let's say I have a +10 grinded W'gacros. My TP's 935. Yours is 1291. NOW I'm up to 3/4 with wand alone. With units, I'm even less of a margin removed from you.

But what's our ATP like? Let's see.

Packing the UNGRINDED 8* Yohmei dual daggers, my ATP is 721. Yours is 588.

Suppose I have %s on that? Let's take an average, not too hard to get % of 28, on opposite element monster. Okay. That equates to 33%, as elementals get an ADDITIONAL 5% bonus.

My ATP is 958. Yours is 782.

You see, it's panning out a lot more evenly than you thought, itn't it? But your lowest modified stat with weapon at DECENTLY ATTAINED % is now 782. And my lowest is 859 on the wands.

BUT, double daggers hit a lot more shit, and are infinitely more useful than wands. And we get S rank in these. Not wands. And, beasts get added benefits of HP based attack techs (diong more damage than you) and a decent nanoblast ability.

You factor all that in.

-Shimarisu-

Dec 18, 2006, 01:48 AM

On 2006-12-17 22:30, Gamemako wrote:

QED, eh?

QED nothing, base stats mean only a low % of the whole and you know it.

Bleemo

Dec 18, 2006, 01:51 AM

On 2006-12-17 22:42, Gazette wrote:
I disagree with your last point there...
The point is to play the job as your strengths allow you to.
Wartecher literally is a middle of the road job in every sense of the word.

Either you're a melee fighter that can cast techs.
Or a tech user that can melee.

Either way you're playing the job as it should be since you're playing at both spectrums of your abilities.

I disagree with this.

The point of a hybrid class isn't to do one or the other, it's to do one and have the other. If you plan on using techs mainly, there is a far better class oriented for that. However, for melee purposes Wartechers have an advantage over other melee classes, I.E. support, buffs, Resta, Reverser.

This is where the argument of using a Newman Wartecher comes from, because their ATP is quite low, and their high TP pretty much makes using melee weapons pointless. Therefore using a Fortetecher would be a much better choice for the race.

Gamemako

Dec 18, 2006, 02:00 AM

On 2006-12-17 22:48, -Shimarisu- wrote:

On 2006-12-17 22:30, Gamemako wrote:

QED, eh?

QED nothing, base stats mean only a low % of the whole and you know it.

Well, since a mukfet has 625 base ATP and even a beast's ATP is 554, yes. But since a Last Survivor has better ATP than an 8-star Yohmei at a whopping 185, no. Generalizations don't generally work.

Gojin

Dec 18, 2006, 02:00 AM

On 2006-12-17 22:51, Bleemo wrote:

On 2006-12-17 22:42, Gazette wrote:
I disagree with your last point there...
The point is to play the job as your strengths allow you to.
Wartecher literally is a middle of the road job in every sense of the word.

Either you're a melee fighter that can cast techs.
Or a tech user that can melee.

Either way you're playing the job as it should be since you're playing at both spectrums of your abilities.

I disagree with this.

The point of a hybrid class isn't to do one or the other, it's to do one and have the other. If you plan on using techs mainly, there is a far better class oriented for that. However, for melee purposes Wartechers have an advantage over other melee classes, I.E. support, buffs, Resta, Reverser.

This is where the argument of using a Newman Wartecher comes from, because their ATP is quite low, and their high TP pretty much makes using melee weapons pointless. Therefore using a Fortetecher would be a much better choice for the race.

have you ever thought maybe someone wants to be a newman and have some diversity? and not just dodge around heal, blast, heal, blast? Good thing people have that thing called freedom to choose what they want and enjoy playing rather than following some 'your race must do this' bull shit, Newman wartecher works this isnt like FF XI when if you try to play a galka black mage you fail. So Im tired of all this Newman must be foretechers or that fail at life shit.

Alisha

Dec 18, 2006, 02:08 AM

There is a techer in there for a reason.

the only part of techer im really interested in is:
resta
shifta
deband
zodial
retier
rentis
dizas
megistar
nosumegid
jellen
zalure
zodeel

Bleemo

Dec 18, 2006, 02:09 AM

On 2006-12-17 23:00, Gojin wrote:
have you ever thought maybe someone wants to be a newman and have some diversity? and not just dodge around heal, blast, heal, blast? Good thing people have that thing called freedom to choose what they want and enjoy playing rather than following some 'your race must do this' bull shit, Newman wartecher works this isnt like FF XI when if you try to play a galka black mage you fail. So Im tired of all this Newman must be foretechers or that fail at life shit.
Why do you have to state something so obvious?

I'm tired of hearing this.

No where in my post did I ever say anything about Newmans failing at life if they are not Fortetecher. I don't think anyone has said anything like that. My God, it's your decision to play how you want. Whatever you have the most fun playing, do it. That is the whole point. This debate is about racial statistics, not about bashing those who chose a bad race/class combination.

Ever since this whole Newman Wartecher debate started, it was about statistics. Not a personal attack on your choice.

-Shimarisu-

Dec 18, 2006, 02:17 AM

The whole point of this poll was which did better at it, I am handing out raw stats, make of them what you will.

I note beast wartecher is getting a lot more % of the votes than it did before we got expert class.

SolomonGrundy

Dec 18, 2006, 06:16 AM

Bleemo: it seems the point you are making is more that the Wartecher is not a very good class, rather than Newman not being good at it...

The original Poll was Human, Newman, or Beast Wartecher.

So let's look at the class, and ask, what is it's purpose.
Then, let's look at race stats, and see to what degree this purpose has been fulfilled.

(this is for a level 10 Wartecher)
Starting with offense:
we see the class has the 3rd lowest of all expert classes for ATP (ATA is2nd worst) , but second highest in TAP - arguments about ata of weapons, and bonus TP of wands aside...it's clear you are a warTECHER, not WARtecher.

I'm not saying the class should not be involved in melee, by the way, jsut illustrating the strenghts of the class.

Now, let's look at defense:
* tied for the highest in HP
* tied for the second highest in DFP
second highest EVP
Second highest MST

Wow, our little guntecher is one hardy MoFo'! Our guy is meant to survive, no matter the source of the damage, and that is an important point.

Odds and ends:
20 techs, 20 skills, 10 bullets. Anyway you dice it, with no level 30 Photon arts, our guy is not going to be a damage powerhouse. No 4 spell holding magic means wartecher damage output is additionally handicapped

a quick look at the 60/10 stat chart posted above will give us the needed race data.

Beasts: great HP, as well as great DFP which feeds into class stregths,... Nanoblasts are nice, but there are some issues too (correct me if I am wrong here... 1.positive status effects (statii?) are removed when in nanoblast form and 2. no techs during this time either)

Newmans: great EVP, TAP, and MST these all feed into the class strengths.

Humans: nothing outstanding here, execept perhaps to note that the areas where the human shines (EVP, MST, and TAP are also more inline with what this class wants to achieve).

After you look at the above, I can draw 1 conclusion:
Beast is the poorest choice of the three. Not that you *cannot* play a beast wartecher, but you are handicapping yourself by doing so.

So who to pick between Human, and Newman? well, my answer is a fickle one. And here is where te IMO disclaimer sounds off.

You've only got 4 slots for you account, remember? That's one for each race, if you want to experience them all. For each other race (Beast, Cast, and Newman), there are other good choices for class - some might argue MUCH better choices! But for human, what else you going to be? Figunner? Say hi to playing second fiddle behind CASTS, whose HP, ATA, and ATP outclass you, even with the bump for type.
I could go on, but for my PSU dollar, you should go with Human, simply because they fit no other class so well.

http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif and yes, it is 3AM here, so I apologize in advance for typos, or poor language choices.

-Shimarisu-

Dec 18, 2006, 06:28 AM

Love how people are still posting paying zero heed to the raw stats I worked out, it's cute.

Gamemako

Dec 18, 2006, 06:34 AM

On 2006-12-17 23:17, -Shimarisu- wrote:
The whole point of this poll was which did better at it, I am handing out raw stats, make of them what you will.

I note beast wartecher is getting a lot more % of the votes than it did before we got expert class.

Actually, if you take the last poll and divide the tie between beasts and humans, you've gone from 14% to 16.7%. I don't have my handy TI-89 with me, but that's going to be pretty close to statistically insignificant. Ironically, newmans have gained more ground, from 17.4% to 23.3%. However, this is all pretty much bunk since the other poll had more options (such as CAST and "there is no best", which was the correct answer). By adjusting the numbers based on percentage of the whole applicable to this poll, you actually will end up with an even smaller increase in believers. If anything, people would be as dogmatic as ever.

-Shimarisu-

Dec 18, 2006, 06:38 AM

If anything, people are marginally less stupid. Seriously, look at the stats. NOT THE BASE STATS, THE ADDED STATS WITH DECENT EQUIPS. There's no way newmans>beasts, if you want to be NICE about it you can say they are equal, but there's no getting away from the race bonuses of high HP for HP based techs and the fact you can nanoblast.

-Shimarisu-

Dec 18, 2006, 06:40 AM

It's interesting that of 6 people I play with 4/6 are beast wartecher, I guess statistically that makes them the best class in the game!

Gamemako

Dec 18, 2006, 06:53 AM

Birds of a feather, Shima.

-Shimarisu-

Dec 18, 2006, 07:18 AM

But I'm fortefighter and guntecher on US server....

Gamemako

Dec 18, 2006, 07:34 AM

Doesn't mean you wouldn't find the company of those with a similar mindset to your own.

//EDIT: And the same goes for everyone else here -- wherever you are, you'll always find more people like you, even if you're a minority.

[ This Message was edited by: Gamemako on 2006-12-18 04:35 ]

Kent

Dec 18, 2006, 07:38 AM

Really? I find that there's a surprising lack of eccentric mega-geekage on PSU.

And it makes me go :/.

Gojin

Dec 18, 2006, 08:19 AM

its not like every beast wartecher in the game is going to be able to afford or get the best equips so that means theres going to be some gimped beast wartechers out there *shrugs*

-Shimarisu-

Dec 18, 2006, 08:29 AM

There's going to be plenty of gimped newmen too, what with decent melee weaps being harder to produce than wands.

Alisha

Dec 18, 2006, 08:39 AM

Starting with offense:
we see the class has the 3rd lowest of all expert classes for ATP (ATA is2nd worst) , but second highest in TAP - arguments about ata of weapons, and bonus TP of wands aside...it's clear you are a warTECHER, not WARtecher.

this logic fails. in pso all the forces had more mst than atp yet at least two of them did more melee than tech damage. wartecher is proballly the closest thing to pso's forces.

No 4 spell holding magic means wartecher damage output is additionally handicapped
how so? you only need to cast buffs every five minutes or so,debuffs will easily cover your tagging needs,and you only need to use elemental magic on select monsters. the only potential problem i see is limited pallete space.

Kent

Dec 18, 2006, 11:56 AM

Palette space limitation and the PA limit, were my only real concerns, back when I was first starting to plan things out for my future Wartecher. Really, though, I'd certainly like to have Rods, if only for the ability to hold more techniques, and be able to use them more before recharging/swapping. However, in practice, I've yet to come to a shortage of usable techniques, with just my three wands. Every area has about two main elemental enemies (example: Parum missions generally have Lightning and Fire enemies on the surface), so I have one wand of each of those elements, then one for Resta and Reverser.

There are a couple times when I run low/out of PP, but usually only on missions that are way too hard for my party to be taking on... Or I'm the main healer, in which case, swapping one or both of my other wands out for Resta/Reverser happens. Two melee weapon (or melee weapon + handgun/card) sets, Longbow, and three Wand sets, works out really well for me, and no major PP issues, unless we're all doing something wrong.

Bleemo

Dec 18, 2006, 12:02 PM

On 2006-12-18 03:16, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Bleemo: it seems the point you are making is more that the Wartecher is not a very good class, rather than Newman not being good at it...
Never EVER did I state this ANYWHERE. Because I don't think such a stupid thing.

Please, learn to read.

SolomonGrundy

Dec 18, 2006, 01:32 PM

On 2006-12-18 09:02, Bleemo wrote:

On 2006-12-18 03:16, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Bleemo: it seems the point you are making is more that the Wartecher is not a very good class, rather than Newman not being good at it...
Never EVER did I state this ANYWHERE. Because I don't think such a stupid thing.

Please, learn to read.

correct, you did NOT say it. but that *seems* to be the point you are making. I can read quite well, and you tone is not particularly friendly. Maybe dial it back a bit?

To my detractors: I do see that humans are winning this poll overall though, so my reasoning perhaps is not completely flawed.

Kent

Dec 18, 2006, 01:48 PM

Bleemo

Dec 18, 2006, 01:56 PM

On 2006-12-18 10:32, SolomonGrundy wrote:
correct, you did NOT say it. but that *seems* to be the point you are making. I can read quite well, and you tone is not particularly friendly. Maybe dial it back a bit?

To my detractors: I do see that humans are winning this poll overall though, so my reasoning perhaps is not completely flawed.

On 2006-12-18 10:48, Kent wrote:
He's saying, it was implied that you think Wartecher is bad - not that you said it directly.

I never implied such a thing.

Hence, "learn to read."

Show me where exactly I "seemed" to imply it.

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-12-18 10:58 ]

SolomonGrundy

Dec 18, 2006, 02:14 PM

On 2006-12-18 05:39, Alisha wrote:

Starting with offense:
we see the class has the 3rd lowest of all expert classes for ATP (ATA is2nd worst) , but second highest in TAP - arguments about ata of weapons, and bonus TP of wands aside...it's clear you are a warTECHER, not WARtecher.

this logic fails. in pso all the forces had more mst than atp yet at least two of them did more melee than tech damage. wartecher is proballly the closest thing to pso's forces.

hey sister, YOUR logic fails. fighting forces required some of the best items in the game to contribue meaningfully. I have a FOmar in the 150's and it is only due to his rainbow baton (which looked ridiculous), AND his 35 hit Plaintain Huge fan. Each of these items took engless hours to hunt, and had multiple parts. And STILL had to wear a the resta barrier, so his resta range would be decent.

FOmarls, were support 'bots, little more. The filled that role well, and folks were always glad to see one, but playing one takes a certain kind of player (a team player).

Don't try and tell me about PSO, you can feel free to school on PSU, however, I am still a neophyte

SolomonGrundy

Dec 18, 2006, 03:02 PM

Bleemo: here is where you implied it. I'm underlining where your implication was strong to me

I disagree with this.

The point of a hybrid class isn't to do one or the other, it's to do one and have the other. If you plan on using techs mainly, there is a far better class oriented for that.. However, for melee purposes Wartechers have an advantage over other melee classes, I.E. support, buffs, Resta, Reverser.

This is where the argument of using a Newman Wartecher comes from, because their ATP is quite low, and their high TP pretty much makes using melee weapons pointless. Therefore using a Fortetecher would be a much better choice for the race.

[ This Message was edited by: SolomonGrundy on 2006-12-18 12:06 ]

Natrokos

Dec 18, 2006, 03:15 PM

CAST!!!

No seriously Newman...My tech damage is already low if I was a human or beast it would be atrocious.

Bleemo

Dec 18, 2006, 03:17 PM

On 2006-12-18 12:02, SolomonGrundy wrote:
Bleemo: here is where you implied it. I'm underlining where your implication was strong to me

I disagree with this.

The point of a hybrid class isn't to do one or the other, it's to do one and have the other. If you plan on using techs mainly, there is a far better class oriented for that.. However, for melee purposes Wartechers have an advantage over other melee classes, I.E. support, buffs, Resta, Reverser.

This is where the argument of using a Newman Wartecher comes from, because their ATP is quite low, and their high TP pretty much makes using melee weapons pointless. Therefore using a Fortetecher would be a much better choice for the race.

Lol. You can't read well as you presumed.

That is no implication that Wartecher is a bad class. That is stating that Wartechers are not oriented on dealing damage with techs specifically. Which is obvious.

Before you make accusations, read thoroughly.