Poll time, how have the recent incidents changed your PSU pl [Archive]

Dragonkat

Dec 19, 2006, 10:56 AM

See above poll, me I go for choice 1. HAX? HA!

All these people going OH NOES! END OF THE WORLD DOOOM! *yawn*

Seen it before, we'll see it again when the next mmo comes out, not like it doesn't happen to every mmo in some way shape or form that has come out even back in EQ's time.

In the meantime I'm going to keep playing, I'm going to keep having fun, I'm going to keep my store open. and damn the hackers full speed ahead!

Perhaps lacking a small degree of common sense, and perhaps "Asking for it?" Maybe so. But "TEH HAX!" and those no account twits that use them are not going to get the satisfaction of making me change how I play PSU one fraking bit. And anyone who lets them should imho ask themselves why. Cause all you're doing is giving them exactly what they want. The satisfaction of ruining your day and the incentives to just keep doing it. The only person who can truly ruin your fun is you, not them.

Advice to everyone running around like ninnies cause a PSOW mod got hacked and wondering "who will be next!"

#1 Close all internet explorer windows, specially the one set to auto refresh the cheaters forum every 5 minutes.

#2 Click on that icon that says Phantasy Star Universe.

#3 Play, have fun, enjoy the game for what it is.

#4 Do not spend all your time while in game trying to witch hunt and FRAPS possible HAX. Or run around accusing the guy with 5 bone dances of being a duper.

#5 HAVE.....FUN! If you're spending more time worrying about hax, being hacked, and looking for hackers then actually playing, why the heck are you even bothering to log in?

#6 Wash rinse repeat.

This message has been a pubic service announcement from the Dragonkat center for happyland legit funness, we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

*click, channel change*

THEY MAY TAKE OUR PM'S! BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!

Laranas

Dec 19, 2006, 11:03 AM

I closed my store on my main (no store on my alts) and just went to grinding with my small community of friends. Even if your store doesn't get hacked, having one with net you some duped meseta surely. So... I'm pretty much back at the same place (mentally) I was at Lv30...

mogshaz

Dec 19, 2006, 11:05 AM

I sleep with a Gun under my pillow now.

MayLee

Dec 19, 2006, 11:06 AM

My PM is set to self-destruct. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Shiro_Ryuu

Dec 19, 2006, 11:13 AM

edit: nevermind, just found out. I need a chance to close my shop and all that.

[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2006-12-19 08:29 ]

rena-ko

Dec 19, 2006, 11:31 AM

On 2006-12-19 08:13, Shiroryuu wrote:
edit: nevermind, just found out. I need a chance to close my shop and all that.

[ This Message was edited by: Shiroryuu on 2006-12-19 08:29 ]

closed store item costs 1000 meseta.

Wheatpenny

Dec 19, 2006, 11:35 AM

I agree I play and have fun ,Hacktards will get whats comin to em.

HiKeRI

Dec 19, 2006, 11:37 AM

Lol Hackers sucks, they can't catch meh HuA HuA HuA

Retehi

Dec 19, 2006, 11:39 AM

I'm too poor to even open a shop.

Parn

Dec 19, 2006, 11:45 AM

Hasn't changed a thing for me. All the people I play with are still awesome, and I'm still as sexy as ever no matter what happens.

Polenicus

Dec 19, 2006, 11:59 AM

*Shrug* Hacking has been around since Version 1, as have people petty enough to go around wrecking people's rooms or PM's for the fun of it. There's a whole subset of 'gamers' who don't play the game to play the game, but play it to see how they can hack it and screw it up, and then there are all the script kiddies who follow in their footsteps and mindlessly spam the damaging scripts over and over until the game admins manage to patch it.

Phantasy Star for some reason seems to attract a really destructive type of hacker/scripter, but otherwise this is all nothing new. WoW, FFXI, all online games hack hackers screwing with things.

I'm going to just keep playing as I always have. If I get hit, I get hit. It'll suck, I'll move on. If the game becomes unplayable, I'll leave, but that's never happened yet, even with PSO ver 1 which was rife with character destroying hacks, player killing, duping and various nastiness.

Garnet_Moon

Dec 19, 2006, 12:05 PM

If they want my Lanterns and Touros they can have them. Won't bother me any.

Jae

Dec 19, 2006, 12:43 PM

My store is still open and my decos are still vulerable. Although I doubt my level 17 PM and vast array of sunflowers are a high risk situation for getting room hacked.

I'll probably move my store to an alt once I get serious with my PM though. After being anal legit in PSO, I really don't have it in me anymore to care about dupes and hacks in PSU. I'll still sell my items for fair prices, still buy reasonably priced items and still won't take free gifts from people I don't know. If I gain "tainted" meseta through my store, so be it. It's all 0's and 1's to me now. No big deal.

Genobee

Dec 19, 2006, 01:04 PM

The Hacking is a major problem, And sega an't doing shit about it, Oh noes theya re banning people whoopdy freaken do, that doesn't slove anything, It's one thing to Hack for your self which I can care less about but it's another to steal personal information of fuck with peoples stuff. If sega doesn't fix this PS2 and PC iwll become a grave yard.

HerdsmanOfYrr

Dec 19, 2006, 01:13 PM

Its a game. If someone wants what ever it is i have in the store or hanging about my room let them go ahead and take it. Im just here for the fun of it. My store is just to see how much people are willing to pay for some of the stupidiest thing that i can find and put in there. I have currently sold a monomate board for 2000. Why someone would buy it or want it is still beyond me. It was priced accidently that high. But serious anything i got i can get again. It is only a game. Maybe i am missing something and i probably am since this is the first i have heard of a hacking problem but i dont care too much i dont think.

DraginHikari

Dec 19, 2006, 01:35 PM

I actually find the hacking paranoid rather pathetic. You give the hackers exactly what they want, attention, deep down that's what their after to get recongized for being complete morons. So far I've heard the incidents have been rather isolated, even though the room problem needs to be dealt with, I've only heard of a handful of people getting hit. If it's really THAT widespread then why haven't I been hit or for that matter anyone I know, most haven't even heard of it because they avoid the offical forum which I'm being to do myself. Seriously their about 8-9 threads a page on that alone.

Play the game, enjoy it, report the incidents you encounter, or don't play. That's all I can really think to say

Shadow_Wing

Dec 19, 2006, 01:42 PM

Don't really care for the hacks, being that I've played with a hacking community for the past 6 years all on different MMOs I've realized there isn't much you can do about it (not the 1st time I've seen a company take years to patch exploits up >>)

Just take some precautionary steps to prevent your room to be hacked, open up a shop on your alt, don't give your card to just about anyone, and/or lock your room

AeraLure

Dec 19, 2006, 01:44 PM

I wrote SEGA on Sunday. Barring some sort of reply or action, my planned last day is this Friday am. My actual account expires April or whenever it is. I'm simply playing and having fun in the meantime. I did close my shops and lock my rooms, but that really wasnt my main concern.

[ This Message was edited by: AeraLure on 2006-12-19 11:58 ]

Bleemo

Dec 19, 2006, 01:45 PM

I sell pretty much every 8* item I put up for auction within one day.

If you would consider having enough money to buy anything I could want a "recent incident that changed the way I play PSU", that would be it.

Fucking shit economy.

happy_cricket

Dec 19, 2006, 02:07 PM

No change.

Fleur-de-Lis

Dec 19, 2006, 02:18 PM

I took as many precautions as I thought were necessary; now I will continue to play while in "wait-and-see" mode in the hopes that SEGA will act.

AndrewLD16

Dec 19, 2006, 02:20 PM

Why is everyone closing their stores? Can a nga get some cliffs?..... haven't been around for a few days http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Remedy

Dec 19, 2006, 02:20 PM

Closed my shop, and will likely quit after my 6-month subscription is over unless Sega restores my PM before then.

AndrewLD16

Dec 19, 2006, 02:27 PM

Can I get some cliffs as to why people are closing their shops????????????

Hustler_One

Dec 19, 2006, 02:28 PM

Cause they are afraid of having there PM reset. =/

FrogKicker

Dec 19, 2006, 02:35 PM

Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

mogshaz

Dec 19, 2006, 02:42 PM

On 2006-12-19 11:35, FrogKicker wrote:
Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

Please take pity on us poor PC users potato king. It sucks having your stuff stolen and your PM destroyed, but to get on the boards and have it rubbed in your face is a little hurtful.

Delinguaniss

Dec 19, 2006, 02:44 PM

I'm serious laughing my ass off this time. A mod got hacked, wow. I guess there are detrimental people around everywhere. I wonder if I'm next? Oh well, I 'll just continue to play the game and find out...

Hustler_One

Dec 19, 2006, 02:46 PM

On 2006-12-19 11:35, FrogKicker wrote:
Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

Im going to laugh my ass off once the X-box starts getting butchered. The more people say stuff like this, and the more they say the X-box is unhackable (YES, I still hear people saying this!) the more people are going to try to crack it.

The_Premier

Dec 19, 2006, 02:48 PM

Being one of the people that has actually had his room jacked really made me change my view on this game. But all I have done for now is lock my room. The only bad thing about locking my room is that Im pretty much closing my store also. Does anyone know if they can hack my room if I am in it? I might just go afk and sit in the room to keep my shop open, only if they cant take control while I'm afk.

Hustler_One

Dec 19, 2006, 02:51 PM

On 2006-12-19 11:48, The_Premier wrote:
Being one of the people that has actually had his room jacked really made me change my view on this game. But all I have done for now is lock my room. The only bad thing about locking my room is that Im pretty much closing my store also. Does anyone know if they can hack my room if I am in it? I might just go afk and sit in the room to keep my shop open, only if they cant take control while I'm afk.

Im sure they probably can, best bet is probably to open a shop on an alt, and transfer any synthed stuff to said shop with a level 1 PM, so you lose nothing if its hacked. Now, go lock your mains room and give the password to trusted friends only.

My ten cents >.>

Arislan

Dec 19, 2006, 02:55 PM

Just a note: Locking your room does not stop the My Room exploit. Read the sticky in General or Cheaters for a method to avoid this hack, AND keep your shop open with no worry.

Mystil

Dec 19, 2006, 02:56 PM

No change.

mogshaz

Dec 19, 2006, 02:58 PM

On 2006-12-19 11:46, Hustler_One wrote:

On 2006-12-19 11:35, FrogKicker wrote:
Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

Im going to laugh my ass off once the X-box starts getting butchered. The more people say stuff like this, and the more they say the X-box is unhackable (YES, I still hear people saying this!) the more people are going to try to crack it.

I am sure they would if they could. The reason all the hacking is happening on the PC/PS2 servers is because its just so much easier. From what i can tell the 360 even has a larger player base and there are still far fewer hacks/reported hacking incidents. The 360 might not be hack proof but how much do you want to bet that 99.9999999% of the cheats on the PC/ps2 version will never even consider cheating on the 360 because they have free reign on the PC/ps2 as it is.

Ryoki

Dec 19, 2006, 03:01 PM

On 2006-12-19 07:56, Dragonkat wrote:
See above poll, me I go for choice 1. HAX? HA!

All these people going OH NOES! END OF THE WORLD DOOOM! *yawn*

Seen it before, we'll see it again when the next mmo comes out, not like it doesn't happen to every mmo in some way shape or form that has come out even back in EQ's time.

In the meantime I'm going to keep playing, I'm going to keep having fun, I'm going to keep my store open. and damn the hackers full speed ahead!

Perhaps lacking a small degree of common sense, and perhaps "Asking for it?" Maybe so. But "TEH HAX!" and those no account twits that use them are not going to get the satisfaction of making me change how I play PSU one fraking bit. And anyone who lets them should imho ask themselves why. Cause all you're doing is giving them exactly what they want. The satisfaction of ruining your day and the incentives to just keep doing it. The only person who can truly ruin your fun is you, not them.

Advice to everyone running around like ninnies cause a PSOW mod got hacked and wondering "who will be next!"

#1 Close all internet explorer windows, specially the one set to auto refresh the cheaters forum every 5 minutes.

#2 Click on that icon that says Phantasy Star Universe.

#3 Play, have fun, enjoy the game for what it is.

#4 Do not spend all your time while in game trying to witch hunt and FRAPS possible HAX. Or run around accusing the guy with 5 bone dances of being a duper.

#5 HAVE.....FUN! If you're spending more time worrying about hax, being hacked, and looking for hackers then actually playing, why the heck are you even bothering to log in?

#6 Wash rinse repeat.

This message has been a pubic service announcement from the Dragonkat center for happyland legit funness, we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

*click, channel change*

THEY MAY TAKE OUR PM'S! BUT THEY'LL NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM!

Need I remind you that someone sent me a message for badgering people?
I would laugh in their face, but after getting a eerie message, it really creeps me out.

Maskim

Dec 19, 2006, 03:16 PM

I've actually been considering quitting, in all honesty. From the recent problems, I just closed and moved my store after DJ's loss. I havn't been directly effected by any 'hacking' because of it. However, I went christmas shopping and realized there's a whole bunch of other games out right now I'd also like to play with my limited free time, which PSU has been completely consuming. On top of that, I havn't worked on my book (excepting a total of maybe 2 or 3 hours) since...oh, PSU's NA release date. I was so far on it, on par to be able to send a finished (barring some editting) manuscript to a publisher that had shown some minor interest in it by the end of the year, well before due. As it is, I'll have to bust my rear to get a presentable draft sent out by the end of February; although, that's still before the date agreed, so that's not too big a deal, I guess.

I havn't quit PSU, and I may not, at all. With all the recent happenings in game, it occurred to me last night that it might be a good time to though. If I did, I'd probably actually play through story mode, then finally get around to opening FFXII and giving that a spin. My kids would be happy, I mean they're happy all the time, even just sitting and watching, or playing with dad as they call it, but I'm sure it'd be better if dad was playing a game he wasn't playing with other people, and could put down in an instant without wrecking things for the rest of the party...I dunno. I'm just rambling.

Dj_SkyEpic

Dec 19, 2006, 03:29 PM

I'm still playing. It's not like I lost something massive. Well... It's true that time is irreplaceable... So about the 100 Tech PM, I will have to find a way to revive her. My main hope is for sega to fix that at the least.... At the least...

zimmk2vgc

Dec 19, 2006, 04:05 PM

Word up dragonkat!. After all the fuss with just about every edition of PSO, except maybe blue burst, I think I can safely say, screw anyone who wants to try and disrupt my play. As long as they don't go exp hogging, I don't mind! Then again, I haven't encountered any problems and I'm one of these idiots which insists that unless it happens to me, then the problem doesn't exist...oh well. I'm screwed.

Ghen

Dec 19, 2006, 05:43 PM

On 2006-12-19 11:35, FrogKicker wrote:
Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

A) Don't be a douche

B) Your platform isn't getting any hacker love right now because no one has figured it out yet. If believe that someone doesn't have the ingenuity to figure out a way around your current security ( that scam with the gt theft was a pretty good start ), you not only lack repsect for your fellow PSUers, you're also delusional.

mogshaz

Dec 19, 2006, 05:49 PM

On 2006-12-19 14:43, Ghen wrote:

On 2006-12-19 11:35, FrogKicker wrote:
Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

A) Don't be a douche

B) Your platform isn't getting any hacker love right now because no one has figured it out yet. If believe that someone doesn't have the ingenuity to figure out a way around your current security ( that scam with the gt theft was a pretty good start ), you not only lack repsect for your fellow PSUers, you're also delusional.

The problem with:

argument B) is that GT theft scam isn't a hack. its just good old identity theft.

Ryoki

Dec 19, 2006, 05:54 PM

On 2006-12-19 14:43, Ghen wrote:

On 2006-12-19 11:35, FrogKicker wrote:
Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

A) Don't be a douche

B) Your platform isn't getting any hacker love right now because no one has figured it out yet. If believe that someone doesn't have the ingenuity to figure out a way around your current security ( that scam with the gt theft was a pretty good start ), you not only lack repsect for your fellow PSUers, you're also delusional.

this is very true. Why doesn't everyone stop the bitching? XBox360 can be hacked. It isn't yet. That is all there is to it.

Randomness

Dec 19, 2006, 05:59 PM

I locked up my room... I'm considering shutting the shop.

As for the OP's remarks about it being "no-account twits"? I believe plenty respectable people got hit. Including, (correct me if I'm wrong) Tomeeboy. I hope you aren't implying everyone who reported issues a liar. Calling mods and admins liars is bad.

mogshaz

Dec 19, 2006, 06:04 PM

On 2006-12-19 14:54, Ryoki wrote:

On 2006-12-19 14:43, Ghen wrote:

On 2006-12-19 11:35, FrogKicker wrote:
Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

A) Don't be a douche

B) Your platform isn't getting any hacker love right now because no one has figured it out yet. If believe that someone doesn't have the ingenuity to figure out a way around your current security ( that scam with the gt theft was a pretty good start ), you not only lack repsect for your fellow PSUers, you're also delusional.

this is very true. Why doesn't everyone stop the bitching? XBox360 can be hacked. It isn't yet. That is all there is to it.

wait, what?! so because no one has figured out how to hack the 360 version of psu that means 360 is just as bad as PC is? i have to call BS good sir. The 360 certainly has a leg up on PC in terms of cheating resistance. By no means is it hacker "proof" but saying stuff like:

"XBox360 can be hacked. It isn't yet. That is all there is to it."

doesn't change the fact that it hasn't yet to any great extent (if at all)

Ryoki

Dec 19, 2006, 06:07 PM

On 2006-12-19 15:04, mogshaz wrote:

On 2006-12-19 14:54, Ryoki wrote:

On 2006-12-19 14:43, Ghen wrote:

On 2006-12-19 11:35, FrogKicker wrote:
Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

A) Don't be a douche

B) Your platform isn't getting any hacker love right now because no one has figured it out yet. If believe that someone doesn't have the ingenuity to figure out a way around your current security ( that scam with the gt theft was a pretty good start ), you not only lack repsect for your fellow PSUers, you're also delusional.

this is very true. Why doesn't everyone stop the bitching? XBox360 can be hacked. It isn't yet. That is all there is to it.

wait, what?! so because no one has figured out how to hack the 360 version of psu that means 360 is just as bad as PC is? i have to call BS good sir. The 360 certainly has a leg up on PC in terms of cheating resistance. By no means is it hacker "proof" but saying stuff like:

"XBox360 can be hacked. It isn't yet. That is all there is to it."

doesn't change the fact that it hasn't yet to any great extent (if at all)

Fine, it might have a leg up on the PC. I don't care, I play on PS2. But the servers are connected. Hence my problem. The 360 has had plenty of bugs, I am sure it is hardly better than a PC in cheating resistance. Since it is basically a computer.

Randomness

Dec 19, 2006, 06:07 PM

On 2006-12-19 15:04, mogshaz wrote:

On 2006-12-19 14:54, Ryoki wrote:

On 2006-12-19 14:43, Ghen wrote:

On 2006-12-19 11:35, FrogKicker wrote:
Wheres the choice for "Knew the PC version would be hacked to hell and back so I went with 360 to begin with?"

I pick that one.

A) Don't be a douche

B) Your platform isn't getting any hacker love right now because no one has figured it out yet. If believe that someone doesn't have the ingenuity to figure out a way around your current security ( that scam with the gt theft was a pretty good start ), you not only lack repsect for your fellow PSUers, you're also delusional.

this is very true. Why doesn't everyone stop the bitching? XBox360 can be hacked. It isn't yet. That is all there is to it.

wait, what?! so because no one has figured out how to hack the 360 version of psu that means 360 is just as bad as PC is? i have to call BS good sir. The 360 certainly has a leg up on PC in terms of cheating resistance. By no means is it hacker "proof" but saying stuff like:

"XBox360 can be hacked. It isn't yet. That is all there is to it."

doesn't change the fact that it hasn't yet to any great extent (if at all)

Actually, you're making a bit of a logical error here. You assume that it isnt hacked because no one has said anything. If anything, the XBox version has been hit with worse than hacks.

PMB960

Dec 19, 2006, 06:11 PM

Um the main reason people hack things is for the challenge. The more people say it is unhackable the more people will try. I bet within one month the xbox version will have the same problems that the PS2/PC servers have. Nothing is unhackable, it will all happen eventually. MS said 360s would be unhackable and that happened very quickly. The thing is there isn't a huge difference in the population on the 360 and PS2/PC servers, not like 260 has several hundred thousand and the PC only has 20 thousand or something. Since they are about as popular they will start with the one that is easier and use that as a stepping stone to hack the other one. So they start with the PC version to find out how to do it and then use that to hack the 360 version. And if there is a mass migrating to the 360 version so much the better because there will be more people to mess around with for them when they finally hack it.

Dragonkat

Dec 19, 2006, 06:17 PM

*peeks back in*

Hey guys, no console flames ok? =p Granted I don't like it myself, and I seriously doubt the 360 is hackproof as some think, but we've got enough of that floating around so I'm gonna leave it at that.

Can't say I like to see anyone quitting but hey not suprising. *shrug* A couple little questions come to mind though.

*pulls out the devils advocate hat*

Bleemo: Just curious but what 8*, how many, and how much did you sell them for? Since I saw someone yesterday with 3 double sabers, and 489K on hand there's no doubt some players are flat out loaded. And those who get lucky playing the weapons market (as you certainly have) can rake in the cash really quick. Said player could have been a duper, or someone who just had the cash to burn and 8*'s to sell at crazy profits and did the same as you.

I'd prefer to give people the benifit of the doubt and say good business practices. And frankly if they have the money to make 8* like mad more power to them, it'll probably mean I can find a cheaper one when I get my cash back, or the right element I want without risking the synth costs myself.

Ok yes, the money to buy your stuff could be duped, or it could just as easily be a good luck streak on your part with people noticing all the 8* you have for sale, telling friends, and look massive profit for you either way. If I had more cash trust me the last thing I'd be doing is complaining about the economy, I'd be going "Thank god! Now I can actually afford more then 1 A rank a month!" =p

How much did you make anyway? Given that I keep hearing about JP weapons that go for millions after all.

Remedy: Sympathy on losing the PM, tech's a ***** to raise to begin with it seems. No matter how you slice it or try it. But why quit if sega doesn't give it back? Ok yes it was a lot of work lost, not to mention a crapton of spent meseta too. But in the meantime surely there is someone who could help you recoup both the PM, or help with synths? It's kinda becoming the case this way with some of my friends. All of us pooling mats a bit to help out, or just trading stuff we find. And odds are one of us has the right PM, well cept me. I'm untrusting of a pure PM and love being a jack of all trades, so mine is a 25 to all 420 plan.

Much as I'd love to see them do it odds are you're SoL when it comes to Sega giving anything back, PM included. But if you're still having fun with friends, and if you're higher up where earning money isn't as hard, and synth mats for cheapo wand food come like candy. Is it really quit worthy just due to a lost PM? Course if you aren't having fun *shrug* well understandable then. The loss sucks, harcore suckage, but I can't wrap my head around wanting to quit over something that is replacable. Despite the annoyance of having to do so.

Someone could PM bomb me right now, and I'd be pissed as all get out for about a day. But it doesn't change the fact I'm still gonna go out and keep at it with my regular late night party. Not leave them in the lurch and minus the crazyness of newman Figunning over it. My cast techer friends would be crushed!

(and yes we are an odd lot ^_^)

mogshaz

Dec 19, 2006, 06:20 PM

On 2006-12-19 15:11, PMB960 wrote:
Um the main reason people hack things is for the challenge. The more people say it is unhackable the more people will try. I bet within one month the xbox version will have the same problems that the PS2/PC servers have. Nothing is unhackable, it will all happen eventually. MS said 360s would be unhackable and that happened very quickly. The thing is there isn't a huge difference in the population on the 360 and PS2/PC servers, not like 260 has several hundred thousand and the PC only has 20 thousand or something. Since they are about as popular they will start with the one that is easier and use that as a stepping stone to hack the other one. So they start with the PC version to find out how to do it and then use that to hack the 360 version. And if there is a mass migrating to the 360 version so much the better because there will be more people to mess around with for them when they finally hack it.

The Drive rom flash is hardly a "stepping stone" to all out Xbox live cheating i have to say. It just allows pirated games to be run on the console. also, i am sure real hackers have better games to crack than PSU. I am sorry to say it but if they wanted a real challenge they would go to an MMO that a decent amount of people actually plays.

PMB960

Dec 19, 2006, 06:38 PM

Yes but sometimes people hack just because they don't like that company. Many people just hack every game they can just to say they did it and were the first . You know bragging rights. Doesn't matter if it was a game that no one played. Other people will hack things with the most people just to cause havoc. Sadly consoles are no longer immune to this since they are all online. The console that sells the most will probably end up having the most problems and viruses because they are trying to cause the most damage to the most amount of people. But that doesn't mean others will not hack the other consoles because there are less people. Again Windows has lots of viruses and stuff and the most users but that doesn't mean that no one hacks any other operating system. And many people on here have been bragging that the 360 version is hack free. I would stop that since that will only encourage them to do it more. When people say you can't do something or something is very difficult you try harder right?

Maskim

Dec 19, 2006, 06:41 PM

On 2006-12-19 15:38, PMB960 wrote:
When people say you can't do something or something is very difficult you try harder right?

Either tha, or you abandon mission and redo it on C rank.

NinjaSalad

Dec 19, 2006, 07:03 PM

OMGHAX don't scare me, I'm still killing shit like always, and my shop is still open.

It kinda sucks, but I'm not changing because of it, I played PSO v1 for god sakes, this is nothing compared to that.

Realmz

Dec 19, 2006, 07:06 PM

my most prized posession is probably my vanda statue, or my lapucha thing.

i do have something along the lines of seven tornado throws tho...but i don't much care about those. my PM's also only lv 6 so even if they did feel the need to bomb it it wouldn't matter much to me, since id still be at moatoob getting weapons for the thing anyway, i could easily replace lapucha or vanda as well.

therefore i laugh and scoff and thee exploits

Bleemo

Dec 19, 2006, 07:41 PM

On 2006-12-19 15:17, Dragonkat wrote:
Bleemo: Just curious but what 8*, how many, and how much did you sell them for? Since I saw someone yesterday with 3 double sabers, and 489K on hand there's no doubt some players are flat out loaded. And those who get lucky playing the weapons market (as you certainly have) can rake in the cash really quick. Said player could have been a duper, or someone who just had the cash to burn and 8*'s to sell at crazy profits and did the same as you.

I'd prefer to give people the benifit of the doubt and say good business practices. And frankly if they have the money to make 8* like mad more power to them, it'll probably mean I can find a cheaper one when I get my cash back, or the right element I want without risking the synth costs myself.

Ok yes, the money to buy your stuff could be duped, or it could just as easily be a good luck streak on your part with people noticing all the 8* you have for sale, telling friends, and look massive profit for you either way. If I had more cash trust me the last thing I'd be doing is complaining about the economy, I'd be going "Thank god! Now I can actually afford more then 1 A rank a month!" =p

How much did you make anyway? Given that I keep hearing about JP weapons that go for millions after all.
I have about 10 7*/8* items currently sitting in my storage that I have yet to place in my shop. Each one is at least 14% elemental damage value, except for one which is 10%, and another is 0%. I know once I place these up, it will only take a couple of days to sell these and make millions.

I've peaked at 4m meseta, with still things to sell. This is because of constantly crafting 8* weapons and selling every single one of them within a day of crafting them. These items mostly include: Mukfet, Bone Dance, Ank Barde, and various others from time to time.

Oh, it gets MUCH better than being able to sell everything I craft the day I place them up. Before this patch? I sold TWO FUCKING GOLDANIA FOR 350,000 MESETA A PIECE. I made 700,000 meseta off of an item that now can be found with a quick few runs through Mad Creatures S. This was because all of those kiddies with eBayed money that had a Crea Double Saber board wanted to make one, and would pay anything for them.

Without a doubt, most of my money has been either duped or purchased off of eBay. These "cheaters" have done far more to the economy than you can imagine, for the simple reason that PSU's player base has become very small. If it was ever any bigger than "very small," anyway. Take a look on eBay for yourself and see exactly how much meseta is available for like $15 bucks. This, is quite simply, preposterous. Because we have such a small player base, when these "cheaters" want to start handing out loads of cash for a price or not, it reaches a far higher number of players than if we had a very large player base, resulting in a bigger than you can imagine pool of currency being added to the player base.

The economy has already been fucking ruined because of how few players play PSU, and how slow Sega is to fix this issue. Sega has done, yet again, a piss poor job at protecting their game. I don't care what anyone says, simply banning the fuckers hasn't solved anything. It has been too long since this method was found, and I bet if we wait just a little longer, the method will reach the average player's hands, and the economy will be blown to high heaven. Everyone running around with billions of meseta, and getting whateeeever they want from the poor saps who actually want to play this game legit. But, those players who want to play legit are sucked into this as well, being forced to take this dirty currency whenever they put an item up in their shop.

The only way for legitimate players to cope with this impending doom is to seclude themselves in an unused server with their friends, and hope their friends do not use these methods of gaining meseta.

Fuck Sega.

pso123hrf

Dec 19, 2006, 07:59 PM

you guys dont understand:

ITS
JUST
A
GAME

-THE JACKLE

Tsukishima-Ruriko

Dec 19, 2006, 08:01 PM

I closed my shop and haven't really had much of a driving urge to play lately. :/

Then again, I also just got Twilight Princess, so that's also a major reason I haven't been PSU'ing. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

PMB960

Dec 19, 2006, 08:18 PM

On 2006-12-19 17:01, Tsukishima-Ruriko wrote:
I closed my shop and haven't really had much of a driving urge to play lately. :/

Then again, I also just got Twilight Princess, so that's also a major reason I haven't been PSU'ing. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Heh that was one reason I stopped playing for a while. But I beat it now so back to PSU. And for those who are complaining about all the meseta maybe Sega could just delete every single meseta and weapon in the entire game(after finding a way to stop the duping glitch). After all its just a game. Its not like you are losing real world currency. Items can be found again and very easily with S-rank missions. I think Sega would lose more people if they do a complete rollback than if they just take away everyones items. Atleast that way your characters are intact. If they do a complete rollback then just getting your items back won't be the only problem.

BloodDragoon

Dec 19, 2006, 08:26 PM

Well the idiots that paid real world currency for in game money would be losing out but then that would be their problem for violating the ToS by purchasing that meseta off ebay and such in the first place.

Dec 19, 2006, 08:29 PM

On 2006-12-19 16:41, Bleemo wrote:Fuck Sega.

Fuck yourself.

Jesus Christ, if you hate the god damn game so much, stop fucking playing.

Bleemo

Dec 19, 2006, 08:30 PM

On 2006-12-19 17:29, PJ wrote:
Fuck yourself.

Jesus Christ, if you hate the god damn game so much, stop fucking playing.
You go fuck yourself.

I don't fucking hate the game, I fucking hate the design team.

Idiot. Don't post if you're going to be ignorant.

Weak

Dec 19, 2006, 08:32 PM

LOL.

I don't usually use netspeak, but.. damn, it's really called for here.

Dec 19, 2006, 08:45 PM

On 2006-12-19 17:30, Bleemo wrote:
I don't fucking hate the game, I fucking hate the design team.

So...

Same thing? "I don't like what they did with the game. But I like the game." ???

"I don't liek what they did with a COMPELTELY NEW GAME but I like the game." ???

lolz

Bleemo

Dec 19, 2006, 08:51 PM

On 2006-12-19 17:45, PJ wrote:

On 2006-12-19 17:30, Bleemo wrote:
I don't fucking hate the game, I fucking hate the design team.

So...

Same thing? "I don't like what they did with the game. But I like the game." ???

"I don't liek what they did with a COMPELTELY NEW GAME but I like the game." ???

lolz

You're a fucking idiot.

No, it isn't the same thing. I hate the assholes who aren't doing anything about it. I hate the incompetency.

Honestly, stop being ignorant and just don't post.

Dec 19, 2006, 08:54 PM

Incompetent people can make a fun game?

Or be succesful?

Wow. They must have defined the term incompetent to be a positive then.

PSObro

Dec 19, 2006, 08:55 PM

off to FF11..

Bleemo

Dec 19, 2006, 08:57 PM

On 2006-12-19 17:54, PJ wrote:
Incompetent people can make a fun game?

Or be succesful?

Wow. They must have defined the term incompetent to be a positive then.

Ugh, you really are ignorant.

They are being incompetent about fixing the issues of their own game. This isn't about when the game was first created, it's about how they are responding to the issues now.

Dec 19, 2006, 09:01 PM

But the problems are coming from the game they made.

The game hasn't changed from when the game was made. This isn't PSU v2. It's still the same as it was when it first came out.

I get your point, I'm just trying to bug you. And to make another point.

Bleemo

Dec 19, 2006, 09:04 PM

On 2006-12-19 18:01, PJ wrote:
But the problems are coming from the game they made.

The game hasn't changed from when the game was made. This isn't PSU v2. It's still the same as it was when it first came out.

I get your point, I'm just trying to bug you. And to make another point.

It was of course a mistake in programming upon release that is the cause of this, all games suffer this, especially after first being released. The problem is the lack of reaction or response, they are being incompetent idiots for not fixing this extremely game breaking issue that has been known for over a month. Any other gaming company would have been extremely quick to fix this.

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-12-19 18:04 ]

Dec 19, 2006, 09:07 PM

Maybe it's just a little bit harder to deal with than we think? Just cause they aren't saying anything about it doesn't mean they're not doing anything about it.

I mean, the fix has to work for all the variables involved. I don't know about you, but I could see this as being a HUGE problem to fix. If we're talking about the same thing.

Bleemo

Dec 19, 2006, 09:12 PM

On 2006-12-19 18:07, PJ wrote:
Maybe it's just a little bit harder to deal with than we think? Just cause they aren't saying anything about it doesn't mean they're not doing anything about it.

I mean, the fix has to work for all the variables involved. I don't know about you, but I could see this as being a HUGE problem to fix. If we're talking about the same thing.
There is always the chance that the issue is really hard to find and/or deal with. However, I'm sure companies like Blizzard or SquareEnix would press as hard as possible for issues like this to be fixed if they find it will take too long using their regular team and working hours. Have it force overtime, or hire more help, the issues will get fixed, especially if it jeopardizes sales.

This issue really is no joke. It's such a heavy issue players will certainly leave the game over. Being a hard to find issue or not, having this issue over a month and counting is just pathetic and incompetent.

Flamingo99

Dec 19, 2006, 09:15 PM

Right now, i've one heard of half a dozen cases where people actually met/been affected by a hacker, so I'm not too worried. But if it does get out of hand, I'm closing my account. It will probably be my last Phantasy Star game too.

[ This Message was edited by: Flamingo99 on 2006-12-19 18:15 ]

PMB960

Dec 19, 2006, 09:21 PM

I wish I had a list of all the people who have duped meseta or have had room decorations stolen. The problem is the tiny portion of people affected are much louder than the portion who aren't. Same hing happens when electronic devices come out. The people who have broken ones are louder than the ones whose device works fine. Judging by the way people talk on forums one would assume over 50% of the people playing are duping meseta and the other 50% have had their room hacked. We don't know exactly how wide spread this is. For all we know 5 people are the ones buying all those items from player shops at insane prices. The problem is all this talk scares new people because everyone is blowing this out of proportion.

Dragonkat

Dec 19, 2006, 09:41 PM

Or going totally off topic with a pointless flame war and blaming sega for everything from puppy killing to total idiocy without even giving them a chance to fix things...

Take it to PM's please, I'd like to see the thread stay open.

But to go on the inital point. Why the hell were you putting a copernia up for 350k in the first place? That's asking for it. Or at least a good way to get duped money out of the system. hmm... nahhh =p

As for the rest I don't think you have the numbers sitting in front of you, so we can't make any opinion = fact about the player base size. Granted it's not large mind you, but its not so tiny i see the same faces all the time, and my personal card list is probably close to 30+ active names too. You're really making mountains out of molehills bleemo.

As is said above, vocal complaints from 5 or 6 people do not = widespread destruction of psu's economy. If that were the case hackers would go around buying everything up, and we wouldn't see a single thing in stores anywhere. Much less overpriced stuff like copernia usually is. Seems overpricing though is a good way to make yourself hacker bait for money dupers.

Is it a problem? Oh sure, but is it the end of the world? Nope, and no amount of bolding your text and saying fuck sega is gonna fix it. But maybe giving them a chance too rather then preaching doom 2 months in would be a good way of doing things. Same could be said of a lot of other people doing the same.

PMB960

Dec 19, 2006, 09:49 PM

Exactly. If I charge 1250 for a nanocarbon and someone who dupes money buys it doesn't matter since any legit person could have bought it too. The reason many are duping meseta is so that they can afford B +10 weapons or buy 50K Christmas Trees that people are selling in their shops. I really think sales in shops should be limited so they can be no more than double the store price.

Genobee

Dec 19, 2006, 09:57 PM

What gets me is this not some under ground super ninja hacking made by some Soilder of furtue, It's balatantly ovious how they are doing this and what they are using with such gruops as TMG who have videos of them doing it and even let you download the software to do it? And I'm damn well sure this site has been reported to sega, And it jsut gets me that sega is charging me 10 bucks amonth for what? I'm paying you and you can't even give my security? WTF is that shit?

PMB960

Dec 19, 2006, 10:13 PM

I admit it is annoying but you knew this would happen when you signed up. Sega does not have a good track record of stopping hackers or doing anything to prevent hackers. When I signed up I did it knowing full well that people would hack the game but I don't really care. It happens to every game its just most companies seem to care more about customers. Which is why PSU's user base is really small compared to most games. But I think if you believed that there wasn't going to be a hacking problem when you signed up you were just fooling yourself.

Bleemo

Dec 19, 2006, 10:20 PM

On 2006-12-19 18:41, Dragonkat wrote:
But to go on the inital point. Why the hell were you putting a copernia up for 350k in the first place? That's asking for it. Or at least a good way to get duped money out of the system. hmm... nahhh =p
Goldania, not Copernia.

At the time, I wasn't deliberately overpricing it. Actually, quite the contrary. When I placed these up for auction, there was only one other person selling Goldania, and he was selling them for 1,000,000 meseta a piece. I priced mine at 350,000 with plans to lower it, but they happened to sell the very day I placed them on the auction.

As for the rest I don't think you have the numbers sitting in front of you, so we can't make any opinion = fact about the player base size. Granted it's not large mind you, but its not so tiny i see the same faces all the time, and my personal card list is probably close to 30+ active names too. You're really making mountains out of molehills bleemo.
Actually, I do. Everyone does. Notice the large numbers floating over your character's head? That's known as a registration ID. It isn't randomly generated. Once you make an account, you are given a number one higher than the person who registered before you. If you take a look at newly registered players in say... Raffon, you're going to see, at most, probably the number 20035000. This means that this player is the 35,000th player to register on Phantasy Star Universe. So, I'm going to say the US PC/PS2 servers have at most 40-45,000 registered players. Now, subtract that number from the players who quit and/or unregistered. See where I'm coming from?

PSU has a very small player base. Small enough that when these large sums of money are passed around, it effects a larger player base than it would if we had a good 100,000 more players. Making duped money circulate much quicker and easier.

As is said above, vocal complaints from 5 or 6 people do not = widespread destruction of psu's economy. If that were the case hackers would go around buying everything up, and we wouldn't see a single thing in stores anywhere. Much less overpriced stuff like copernia usually is. Seems overpricing though is a good way to make yourself hacker bait for money dupers.
You're right, vocal complaints won't ruin the game. However, vocal complaints will make people more aware of an issue, making them contemplate their own reason for playing. But, honestly, you can't really say 5 or 6 people are experiencing these issues. You could say, though, 5 or 6 people have complained publicly about it. It all depends on the publicity these players give the issues--that doesn't make the issue any less severe.

To the overpricing comment, I explained above. I don't overprice. I am an avid watcher of the economy, and often adjust my prices because I enjoy having lower prices than most. However, like anyone that wants money, you will do your best to make this money.

The point is: I shouldn't have to limit myself to make money just because most of the economy's currency was either bought outside of the game and/or gotten from cheating. Hell, I have to adjust my pricing to this influx of currency, because as this goes on, we're sure to see some pretty major price increases in the future, and I will need those large sums of money to buy anything. Price will be increased as players feel more comfortable they can sell items at higher prices, because players generally have more money.

Is it a problem? Oh sure, but is it the end of the world? Nope, and no amount of bolding your text and saying fuck sega is gonna fix it. But maybe giving them a chance too rather then preaching doom 2 months in would be a good way of doing things. Same could be said of a lot of other people doing the same.
It's a problem, and yes, it could mean the end of PSU if it drags on(No gaming company would let a severe issue like this drag on, it's pathetic.). The only thing that will help fix this issue now is to do our best by making Sega more and more aware of the issue. We do that through complaints, even if it's on these fansite forums.

For those who believe bitching about Sega's performance or bitching about the game's problems/flaws is only whining, you're sadly mistaken. It's called feedback. Feedback is required for any game to grow, so solid, reasonable complaints are a good thing. And, by all means, this is a good reason to complain.

Genobee

Dec 19, 2006, 10:23 PM

On 2006-12-19 19:13, PMB960 wrote:
I admit it is annoying but you knew this would happen when you signed up. Sega does not have a good track record of stopping hackers or doing anything to prevent hackers. When I signed up I did it knowing full well that people would hack the game but I don't really care. It happens to every game its just most companies seem to care more about customers. Which is why PSU's user base is really small compared to most games. But I think if you believed that there wasn't going to be a hacking problem when you signed up you were just fooling yourself.

I knew there was gonna be hacking but I thought it was gonna be like on PSO where it was just weapons and duping, NOT getting all my shit stolen and having 350 hours go down the tube.

PMB960

Dec 19, 2006, 10:42 PM

I wasn't expecting that either but you just have to deal with it. I want to know how many people have had their stuff stolen though. It can't be more than a couple dozen. Even if it occured to 2% of the people who play PSU (~200-400 people) that isn't very wide spread at the moment. I am sure Sega is aware that if it spreads to 10% or more that no one will want to play at all. They will have to deal with it sooner or later or risk loosing everyone.

Dragonkat

Dec 19, 2006, 11:18 PM

Since we don't know how many registered players there are, or how many have quit, niether you nor I can make any accurate judgement of playerbase size, it's pointless to try.

If it's on PSOW It's going to be flaming, whining, or pointless complaining no matter who does it. You or me. Or no matter the tone, this is the wrong place for it.

If it's being reported to Sega itself through mails and support forms, that's real action. As I seriously doubt some sega rep is sitting here reading and going "Oh noes the fansites are angry, we must fix it now!" And if you're that unhappy with all that possibly duped money, could ask a GM to take it off your hands, or just go NPC sink it and sell the things you buy back.

OR there's always the fun option of trying to catch them, maybe check your logs and look for obvious things like lvl 1 blank rooms from players with way too much money who have been by your store. Me, I still have better things to do like actually play and have fun. Not give a flip about silly things like impending DOOOOM!

Overpricing idiots who price gouge fellow players are more of a threat then hackers anyway. It's those morons who incite people to dupe and ebay money with outlandish prices like 1 mil for something.

If we could fix that along with money duping I'd be a much happier camper, but eh that's human nature for you.

EDIT: and now that I think about it, it's been how long? Not even a month since this problem arose.

Yeah sega way to let it really drag out there, not like they've been patching to try and fix it or anything...oh...wait.

Again maybe you should actually consider giving them a chance to fix it before saying its the end of the world? Now if three months down the line every shop is inflated, and dupers rule the roost, you can serve me some extra large crow with a side of hubris. But for now I'd prefer to hold out hope thanks.

[ This Message was edited by: Dragonkat on 2006-12-19 20:21 ]

BloodDragoon

Dec 19, 2006, 11:25 PM

On 2006-12-19 20:18, Dragonkat wrote:

Overpricing idiots who price gouge fellow players are more of a threat then hackers anyway. It's those morons who incite people to dupe and ebay money with outlandish prices like 1 mil for something.

Personally I'd say it's the idiots buying meseta that are causing shops to price gouge. If someone is buying it why should they bother lowering their prices? Primary issue here is the people taking this "easy out" method of aquiring in game currency have no bearing on it's real value in game and spend it frivolously causing shop owners to think, "Hey, people are buying this item for this ridiculously high amount of meseta so I'm going to sell all of them for that price."

Bleemo

Dec 19, 2006, 11:26 PM

On 2006-12-19 20:18, Dragonkat wrote:
Since we don't know how many registered players there are, or how many have quit, niether you nor I can make any accurate judgement of playerbase size, it's pointless to try.
Eh, yes you can. You can make the accurate assumption there is at MOST 45,000 players, and that's giving it a generous margin to how many players have actually registered.

Seriously, go look for yourself. I bet if you try hard all day, you're not even going to see someone with the registration ID 20032000.

What I said about the registration ID is true. If the registration ID number count is AT MOST 20045000, even not factoring in player base losses, 45,000 players is still very small compared to most online games.

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-12-19 20:31 ]

PMB960

Dec 19, 2006, 11:36 PM

Yes and from that I estimate that some where between 10 and 20 thousand players are still on regularly. And as I said before Sega may feel that something that affects less than 10% of people playing is not enough to worry about. I say that based on the fact that anything less than that number is generally acceptable for most electronic product failure rates. I personally just deal with it because it happens to every game and even if someone PM bombed me I would be thankful since I need to reset my PM anyways.

SailorDaravon

Dec 19, 2006, 11:38 PM

On PS2/PC, I personally have not seen anyone past the 29,xxx mark. I have yet to see anything 30k or higher. There will probably be a small influx at Christmas, but I'd be suprised if PC/PS2 hit 40-45k over the course of it's entire life.

BloodDragoon

Dec 19, 2006, 11:48 PM

Look on the bright side of things. Atleast the game servers aren't crashing every 30-40 minutes like on WoW when I started playing it. Think that issue persisted for about 1-2 weeks before a long maintenance was scheduled to fix it. But at that point all the angry hot headed players in the game had filed negative reports to the Better Business Bureau resulting in Blizzard quickly ending up with a F rating on the BBB website.

Honestly I'd say give them a little more time. Sega and Sonic Team aren't as stupid as alot of people seem to be implying. I'd simply assume they're looking for a permanent solution to the meseta duping rather than a temporary one that would only solve the problem a few days at best.

I still hold to the belief these "hackings" aren't as widespread as people think they are. To me it seems as if 1-2 people get hit and then 40-50 people talk about it. Then others show up with the "My friend got hit also" stories and draw even more attention to the problem by making look more widespread and rampant than it actually is.

My sympathies still go out to the ones that did in fact get hit.

SailorDaravon

Dec 19, 2006, 11:55 PM

On 2006-12-19 20:48, BloodDragoon wrote:
Honestly I'd say give them a little more time. Sega and Sonic Team aren't as stupid as alot of people seem to be implying.

That's what people said about Ver 1. Then 2. Then Episode I & II. Then the Xbox verison, that can't be hacked! Then Blue Burst. Do you see a pattern? We've basically given them five years, and they've proven time and again they can't run online security for shit.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 12:01 AM

On 2006-12-19 20:48, BloodDragoon wrote:
Honestly I'd say give them a little more time. Sega and Sonic Team aren't as stupid as alot of people seem to be implying. I'd simply assume they're looking for a permanent solution to the meseta duping rather than a temporary one that would only solve the problem a few days at best.
The problem is that Sega has been aware of this issue for over a month. By any online gaming company's standards, an issue as severe as this would give their community grounds for calling them slow and incompetent. Seriously, over a month. That's more than enough time for it to impact such a small player base. Of course, we're talking about the meseta issue here.

The room ransacking issue is another thing. That is mostly a big scare amongst the players, I too don't believe it is as severe as people make it out to be, just like the media puts emphasis on small things that will virtually never effect us, but taking the right precautions to prevent it and voicing out to other players on how to is completely the right thing to do.

Honestly, at this point, strategically a temporary solution would be best until they can fix the issue. Hell, even if it's a temporary solution that players don't like, but at least that would give players the feeling of security that Sega actually cares about the safety of their game. Sega has done no such thing to assure us other than ban a few people(Which is progression, but by no means has fixed or even come close to fixing the issues.).

It's like Sega gave us our game to buy, let us play, then abandoned us at the time we most need them. Sound familiar? Because this is trademark Sega. It's disgusting. I honestly want to give them more respect than I do, but it really has sunk to a level in which I'm close to losing every bit of it I have left for them.

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-12-19 21:14 ]

BloodDragoon

Dec 20, 2006, 12:05 AM

Primary issue with PSO was that character/game data was all client side on consoles that for the most part didin't utilize a HDD for gameplay so really there were limitations on what sega or sonicteam could do in that situation to fix it. (Don't know if the same applies to BB or not. BB and the Ep.3 Card Battle are the only 2 out of the series I didn't play.) At the very least character data is stored server side this time around limiting what these cheaters are capable of doing. Granted the online security of the game could have been better but they do have options available this time around that could allow them to fix the problems. Really it's just waiting it out and seeing if they carry through with it.

happy_cricket

Dec 20, 2006, 12:12 AM

On 2006-12-19 21:01, Bleemo wrote:
I honestly want to give them more respect than I do,

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-12-19 21:02 ]

LOL. Im sorry Bleemo, but this made me laugh. Fromt he time I began participating in this forum, I have never seen you have anything even remotely positive to say about ST or this game. I would think you'd be in hog heaven - this is exactly what you've been waiting for.

Dragonkat

Dec 20, 2006, 12:17 AM

Since I'm bored lets have fun with math.

Ok I'll give you the 45K "Very small" *snicker* Sorry we can't all be WoW.

In fact i'll take it one step further, we'll call it 40,000 players total right now.

Now lets say that out of those 40,000 we have 400 players duping or buying money off ebay. I'm not touching hacker sites with a ten foot poll so I can't go seeing how many visit them, but if we're going to play the assuming game with your numbers then I'm going to use my own assumptions too, so nyah. =p

Either way, that is exactly 1% of your playerbase. You want a very small number that's it right there.

Now take a worst case scenario, and say every last one of those 400 dupers gets their hands on 100 million meseta. Highly unlikely if not ouright impossible. With not all of them paying this much on ebay, and dupers not wishing to be this obvious with their hacking. But we'll run with it.

That's a total of 40,000,000,000 meseta. Quite the not so small number indeed!

Well until you take into account that divided among 40,000 players this whopper of a dupefest comes out to exactly a whole 1 million extra per player.

Which means you peaked at 4 out of 40000 players all being given a million bucks by dupers. (Which needless to say has not occured)

Or a whole .0001% of the "Very small" PSU playerbase.

Good job!

And thanks for showing us all what a threat money duping really is to our economy too, whatever would we do without watchdogs and doomsayers like you?

This is me laughing by the way, just so you know.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 12:21 AM

On 2006-12-19 21:12, happy_cricket wrote:
LOL. Im sorry Bleemo, but this made me laugh. Fromt he time I began participating in this forum, I have never seen you have anything even remotely positive to say about ST or this game. I would think you'd be in hog heaven - this is exactly what you've been waiting for.
Your point is?

Sega has done a poor job on these issues and others, has it not? Tell me where it has done a good job at fixing their issues. You obviously haven't read all of my posts, but I have put emphasis on what Sega has done right, and what they have done wrong. But, really, what's the point in discussing what they have done right unless you want a friendly conversation? Discussing Sega's bad points and flaws are grounds for debate, which I enjoy doing.

Honestly, don't post if you're going to be a retard.

happy_cricket

Dec 20, 2006, 12:24 AM

I'm not a retard, and your use of "retard" to mean stupid is offensive and puerile.

I'm not saying that Sega is doing anyting right OR wrong. My post was about YOU. LOL. Peace, brother.

Choja

Dec 20, 2006, 12:29 AM

On 2006-12-19 08:45, Parn wrote:
Hasn't changed a thing for me. All the people I play with are still awesome, and I'm still as sexy as ever no matter what happens.

Because sexy beats evil always!
Nothing can go wrong, and plus, hackers don't want to target me since I'm so poor! Woohoo! Feel the sexay! If I lose things, I'll just start killing stuff again.
Brought to you by the letter L, for looooove. and lol. but I hate that abbreviation, so it's actually for looooove.

Genobee

Dec 20, 2006, 12:32 AM

It's not just PSU thats suffer at the hand of Sega, Sega just sucks period, they can't do anything right, The Sonic francize is a fucking joke, last time anyone got excited about Virtua Fighter was in the 90's, We all know how well sega did with consoles, And now PSU is becoming a joke. Sega never had a great track record...

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 12:38 AM

HerdsmanOfYrr

Dec 20, 2006, 01:26 AM

Sega has done a poor job on these issues and others, has it not? Tell me where it has done a good job at fixing their issues. You obviously haven't read all of my posts, but I have put emphasis on what Sega has done right, and what they have done wrong. But, really, what's the point in discussing what they have done right unless you want a friendly conversation? Discussing Sega's bad points and flaws are grounds for debate, which I enjoy doing.

Honestly, don't post if you're going to be a retard.
ok I am going to take the liberty of pointing out a couple of arguement flaws here. First not the conflict in nature between the following two statements: "Friendly conversation"; "don't post if you're going to be a retard." Second, I have read all of the post here and only one of them did you say anything even remotely close to being positive about sega but you still managed to bungle that by whinning and complaining about how they should be doing things better because of what they improved for this game.

Now I just want to take a little more liberty and point out a few good counter remarks to you anything but intellegent arguement.

First is that this is a problem with the programming code that is allowing people to hack, and problems like that can not CAN NOTbe fixed in a few day or weeks. In fact nothing short of a new game version will fix a programming problem.

Second point is that this is a global program that means fixing several different languages and nation sets of game all at the same time because if you dont the hacks will swiftly race ahead and ravage the unchanged programs. It is definatly worse to have all the hacks concentrated on one area than spread across a wide one.

Third point is that while i havent spent the time to look yet I can imagine you are one of the people who so vocally shouted for the upgrades to begin and for new content to be added. If so then you can count yourself amoung those "incompetant morrons" who are doing nothing to fixs your problem. It takes as much if not more time to add an update as fix a problem. So give yourself a pat on the back all you whinners out there you have successful aided all these "hackers".

And on to my final point for now. This is just a game. BOO WHOO my PM got reset. *cry* some one stole my uber rare statue. *pout* someone used cheat money to buy out my store. ITS A GAME. If you really are going to take it as a life and death sort of thing and get this bent out of shape find something else to waste your time on and let the rest of us who just want to have fun have our game hacks and all.

icewyrm

Dec 20, 2006, 01:27 AM

I think it basically just comes down to SEGA trying to sell the game across too many different systems. It implements a slapdash security solution for the PC version. It is poorly optimised for the 360 and PC versions, and still slows down considerably on PS2 hardware. And finally, because it was released on 3 very different platforms, it's likely a nightmare to maintain/update.

Even a well established AND security conscious game studio would have a difficult time managing updates, security and maintenance across 3 different platforms. I think at this stage the best SEGA will manage is to be as ban happy as possible, and to keep a close eye on whatever logging information they have at their disposal. Otherwise it would only take a set of easy to use tools publicly released, and updated frequently to avoid gameguard revisions, to make PSU a hive of duping/pm bombing/whatever activity.

HerdsmanOfYrr

Dec 20, 2006, 01:33 AM

Bleemo you keep going on about people having large sums of money and people selling things for more the twice that of npc stores and getting away with it. Well here is a simple solution and actually a good marketing tip for everyone out there not just our morronic ranting friend: DONT BUY OVERPRICED ITEMS. Search the player stores and find the cheapest price. and if it is higher than the NPC go there.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 01:57 AM

On 2006-12-19 21:17, Dragonkat wrote:
Since I'm bored lets have fun with math.

Ok I'll give you the 45K "Very small" *snicker* Sorry we can't all be WoW.

In fact i'll take it one step further, we'll call it 40,000 players total right now.

Now lets say that out of those 40,000 we have 400 players duping or buying money off ebay. I'm not touching hacker sites with a ten foot poll so I can't go seeing how many visit them, but if we're going to play the assuming game with your numbers then I'm going to use my own assumptions too, so nyah. =p

Either way, that is exactly 1% of your playerbase. You want a very small number that's it right there.

Now take a worst case scenario, and say every last one of those 400 dupers gets their hands on 100 million meseta. Highly unlikely if not ouright impossible. With not all of them paying this much on ebay, and dupers not wishing to be this obvious with their hacking. But we'll run with it.

That's a total of 40,000,000,000 meseta. Quite the not so small number indeed!

Well until you take into account that divided among 40,000 players this whopper of a dupefest comes out to exactly a whole 1 million extra per player.

Which means you peaked at 4 out of 40000 players all being given a million bucks by dupers. (Which needless to say has not occured)

Or a whole .0001% of the "Very small" PSU playerbase.

Good job!

And thanks for showing us all what a threat money duping really is to our economy too, whatever would we do without watchdogs and doomsayers like you?

This is me laughing by the way, just so you know.

Alright, this is a bit of a late post, but I wanted to offer some assistance to your calculations as to what you didn't take account of in them.

You gave a very simple equation to explain the impact on our economy, but the impact really cannot be solved with something so simple due to some pretty important variables. Here are some of the things needed to be factored into any equation about our economy's situation involving meseta.

Firstly, you used the number "40,000" as the player base. Now, you used this number in assumption that 40,000 players actually effect the economy. Unfortunately this isn't true. When I gave 40,000 as an actual number, it was actually too large of a number. If you want statistics, an accurate assumption of our current registered player base, the number 32,000 would be far more accurate. If you can find anyone, screen shot it, and send it to me with the registration ID a few thousand over 32,000, I will be happy to pass cookies and admit that I'm wrong on the player count.

Now, we have 32,000 players in our equation that have actually registered.

Obviously not every player will be able to effect or even use the economy, so we're going to have to factor those players out. To do this, you must factor three player types:

1) Unregistered and/or players who are no longer playing.
These players are no longer effecting the economy because they simply don't play anymore. And since their registration number never gets deleted, you must at least make an attempt to factor them out.

2) Incoming players.
Players who are new and just coming in are obviously not going to have an effect on our economy, simply because our economy revolves around player shops, and the money they spend isn't nearly high enough to have any impact, so these players must be factored out.

3) Maturing players.
Players who are leveling into the higher levels are quite a weird bunch. These players actually have the highest percentage of buying gaming currency, but are some of the lowest percentage of total purchases. However, it's safe to assume these players don't effect our economy much, so it would be safe to really factor out most of these players.

Now, factoring out aaaall of these players will probably bring us down to about 20-22,000 players that actually effect our economy. Much lower than what you used in your equation. But, it only gets lower from there.

Then, you must factor out who uses the economy and who doesn't. Not everyone has a player shop, and not everyone purchases items from player shops. I bet that only around 15,000 of those actually have player shops, and only 12,000 actually use it, with probably around 6,000 players who actually sell valuable items. So, the economy we know and use is probably much smaller than you previously imagined.

This actually becomes a problem. Because when the economy is small, and large sums of money are introduced into it, items begin to inflate in prices a lot quicker because the players who impact our economy end up with larger sums of money in their pockets, thus able to purchase higher priced items. It's pretty evident as to how this has effected our economy, because look at the players selling valuable items: they are filthy rich. And they aren't doing much to get that way, except crafting. I bet all of these players have invested in a pure stat PM, which is where their main source of profit comes from. Then, these players start blowing money on other shops and more items to sell.

Because purchased meseta provides a very large income to those crafting items, they have enough meseta to buy just about anything, including more synthing materials. They begin to purchase items from average player shops in larger quantities, and generally give out more money than anyone has ever earned in this small economy. These rich folk are willing to pay a little extra for a higher % weapon, or some synthing materials.

This isn't JUST for the ones who sell valuable items, though. If you have something to sell of value, anything, it will most likely be bought, because more people have money. The buyers are usually those who take advantage of either the RMT system, or the player shop system. When percentages of these 20,000 players actually buy large sums of money frequently, meseta continues to be introduce into the small economy in which we have, eventually causing price inflations because players have more money to spend, and are willing to go a little over each time(Ex. I sold three 16% Bone Dances for 250,000 meseta a piece.).

Because of all this money within the system, really, items begin to lose value and the game generally begins to lose value. We have a large influx of money coming in due to the cheaters, which makes pretty much anyone able to get what they want and rare items are no longer "rare".

Now, if you took the time to read this, I do hope you understand that the situation is a lot different than you had thought.

Dragonkat

Dec 20, 2006, 02:04 AM

*yawn's inbetween bites of popcorn*

As entertaining as this is Bleemo, you're really coming off as beyond help, and pretty much hell bent on being negative. But all the same I'm willing to play a little longer. Needed a PSU break anyway.

First off, once again, you can't assume that X = Y (using research from other games as a model for another) without knowing either X or Y, that's math that's flawed beyond any reasoning, or pretty much all the numbers you and me both are playing with but hey *shrug* You've got zero actual evidence to back up your reasoning, so if you wonder why I disregard it so easily that's why. My mother has a little saying about assuming I love. It makes a certain three letter word out of you and me. No prizes for guessing what that word is. =p

But anyway let's look at $20 for 3 million. Then compare that to the worst case scenario I just gave you above.

That 40,000,000,000 / 3,000,000 = 13,333.3 repeating.

so we would need 13,333 people roughly to all pay 20 bucks in ebay terms, just to give every player 1 million meseta.

That comes out to $266,660 in real money spent on ebay just to barely dent the economy of PSU giving every one of us 1 million. And even if you only have 20000 active PSU players it's still only 2 million per player. Which might last long enough to use a few 8* synth boards before mat costs get you. Oooh scary!

That means to make this an ongoing issue you would have $266,660 spent per 1 million meseta given to every PSU player. I'd call every player having about 3 million a nice point to worry. So that's a grand total of $799,980 just to give us all 3 million bucks. Anything less is a drop in the bucket and will have nil impact whatsoever.

Even if 4000 players (or 10% of the base using your 5-10% use RMT) all bought 3 mil for $20 that's still only an extra 12,000,000,000 meseta for $80,000, and only 300,000 extra meseta per player just for one day of RMT purchases.

*checks Ebay at this point for the hell of it*

Ok I see 5 mil for $30 as well sooo that comes out to 20,000,000,000 for $120,000, or 500,000 meseta per player for one day of buying.

Now if you honestly believe and can say with a stright face that we're spending that much per day to make it an ongoing issue, just to have the cash for A ranks...well...lol? Hell if I was sega screw making mmo's, I'd just go into the RMT business! =p

*thinks about a moment more, goes back to ebay*

Ok I just looked through 3 pages of meseta offers, counted, and the grand total came out to around 306 million being offered currently. Give or take maybe about 10 mil more, I only added up offers that were 500k and above.

So even if every single bit of meseta on ebay right now sold that comes out to an extra 306 million of duped or just farmed money. Divide it by 40,000 players and that's a whole 7650 extra. I can run Mizuraki defense S twice faster then the time it took me to count that and make more.

So if every single meseta order on ebay sold every single day (and probability says it won't) That means we'd all make roughly an extra 7650 per day, 53550 per week. And to reach that 1 million per player mark where the economy starts to hurt using ebay it'd only take around 18 and a half weeks, or around four and a half months.

Face it Bleemo no matter how you try the numbers just aren't on your side. Ongoing issue or not I seriously doubt that we've even seen the worst case numbers I gave in terms of duping. First off they don't need that much for what they want, second off not every 8* star for sale is being instantly bought out in a day, third there's just not enough meseta being sold, and finally it would take obscene amounts of real money changing hands before this even comes close to becoming a minor threat to the PSU economy. But if you actually believe this much is being spent, then i've got a few one million meseta 3* daggers to sell you.

Still willing to take that cash off your hands. =p

Edit:

Shrinking and twisting the numbers btw won't solve the simple fact there's not enough duped money to make a threat.

#1 You estimated 45000 yourself eariler, shrinking it down to 32000 now? Ok..sure.. =p And if you are a player you are part of the economy regardless of where you shop. Cause at some point or another everyone will look through player shops, it's just easier and cheaper to find what you want 90% of the time.

#2 If i was an incoming player you bet your ass i'd be using player shops to find cheaper synth mats then npc prices, or the photons i'd need to make elemental weps. Saying they don't use player shops is downright laughable and not helping your arguement much. No matter how little they spend, they are part of the economy, inflation hurts them too. And hurts them more.

#3 Mature players have the most money to burn and will burn it if they find something they need, i'll gladly pay reasonable prices for mats i can't find elsewhere, like my 7* ores and coperinas for my rare boards. Key word is reasonable, which right now most people aren't, but thats a seperate issue.

And even if it's only your totally laughable number of maybe 10000 actual "economy" players. Look at the above. It doesn't change how much would have to be spent on ebay. And it means you're making a whole extra 30600 a day off rmt's overall per player per day. Which is still total jack, and still not a threat to the economy at all.

Twist it around anyway you want but the numbers still don't add up to money duping being a problem yet. It takes too many extremes that aren't happening to approach DOOM! levels.

[ This Message was edited by: Dragonkat on 2006-12-19 23:24 ]

PMB960

Dec 20, 2006, 02:09 AM

I am assuming there are not between 1000 and 4000 people who buy meseta everyday for PSU. That seems like alot and I think the people selling it on ebay would be very rich. It would mean they would be making between 20,000 and 80,000 dollars a day. Even if 100 people were selling meseta that wouldmean they are making $800 a day. They would be making triple what my dad does in a year and he is a top level engineer. I highly doubt people have that much money to spend on meseta. Even 200 people a day is alot of money although spread between multiple people they would only be making a couple hundred a day. That would mean they could still be making a couple thousand a week. Honestly these people could be millionaires if 10% or the PSO population were doing that. People who do that for WoW would be billionaires already. Honestly you are blowing things out of proportion. If you could honestly make even just $200 a day then every single person on here would be duping meseta. My analysis was on everyone who is duping or stealing from rooms total.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:09 AM

On 2006-12-19 23:04, Dragonkat wrote:
*yawn's inbetween bites of popcorn*

As entertaining as this is Bleemo, you're really coming off as beyond help, and pretty much hell bent on being negative. But all the same I'm willing to play a little longer. Needed a PSU break anyway.

First off, once again, you can't assume that X = Y (using research from other games as a model for another) without knowing either X or Y, that's math that's flawed beyond any reasoning, or pretty much all the numbers you and me both are playing with but hey *shrug* You've got zero actual evidence to back up your reasoning, so if you wonder why I disregard it so easily that's why. My mother has a little saying about assuming I love. It makes a certain three letter word out of you and me. No prizes for guessing what that word is. =p

But anyway let's look at $20 for 3 million. Then compare that to the worst case scenario I just gave you above.

That 40,000,000,000 / 3,000,000 = 13,333.3 repeating.

so we would need 13,333 people roughly to all pay 20 bucks in ebay terms, just to give every player 1 million meseta.

That comes out to $266,660 in real money spent on ebay just to barely dent the economy of PSU giving every one of us 1 million. And even if you only have 20000 active PSU players it's still only 2 million per player. Which might last long enough to use a few 8* synth boards before mat costs get you. Oooh scary!

That means to make this an ongoing issue you would have $266,660 spent per 1 million meseta given to every PSU player. I'd call every player having about 3 million a nice point to worry. So that's a grand total of $799,980 just to give us all 3 million bucks. Anything less is a drop in the bucket and will have nil impact whatsoever.

Even if 4000 players (or 10% of the base using your 5-10% use RMT) all bought 3 mil for $20 that's still only an extra 12,000,000,000 meseta for $80,000, and only 300,000 extra meseta per player just for one day of RMT purchases.

*checks Ebay at this point for the hell of it*

Ok I see 5 mil for $30 as well sooo that comes out to 20,000,000,000 for $120,000, or 500,000 meseta per player for one day of buying.

Now if you honestly believe and can say with a stright face that we're spending that much per day to make it an ongoing issue, just to have the cash for A ranks...well...lol? Hell if I was sega screw making mmo's, I'd just go into the RMT business! =p

*thinks about a moment more, goes back to ebay*

Ok I just looked through 3 pages of meseta offers, counted, and the grand total came out to around 306 million being offered currently. Give or take maybe about 10 mil more, I only added up offers that were 500k and above.

So even if every single bit of meseta on ebay right now sold that comes out to an extra 306 million of duped or just farmed money. Divide it by 40,000 players and that's a whole 7650 extra. I can run Mizuraki defense S twice faster then the time it took me to count that and make more.

So if every single meseta order on ebay sold every single day (and probability says it won't) That means we'd all make roughly an extra 7650 per day, 53550 per week. And to reach that 1 million per player mark where the economy starts to hurt using ebay it'd only take around 18 and a half weeks, or around four and a half months.

Face it Bleemo no matter how you try the numbers just aren't on your side. Ongoing issue or not I seriously doubt that we've even seen the worst case numbers I gave in terms of duping. First off they don't need that much for what they want, second off not every 8* star for sale is being instantly bought out in a day, third there's just not enough meseta being sold, and finally it would take obscene amounts of real money changing hands before this even comes close to becoming a minor threat to the PSU economy. But if you actually believe this much is being spent, then i've got a few one million meseta 3* daggers to sell you.

Still willing to take that cash off your hands. =p

Read the post I made just above yours. If you still don't understand how flawed your math is by then, I'd be happy to explain. But before we go any further, read it.

PMB960

Dec 20, 2006, 02:19 AM

On 2006-12-19 23:09, Bleemo wrote:
Read the post I made just above yours. If you still don't understand how flawed your math is by then, I'd be happy to explain. But before we go any further, read it.

Actually I was using your math that said 10% or people were buying meseta. Even if 10% were only 200 people the 20 people can make $200 per day. 10% is obviously more than 200 people right now so there is no way people can be making half of my dads salary in one day again going by your 10%.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:21 AM

On 2006-12-19 23:19, PMB960 wrote:

On 2006-12-19 23:09, Bleemo wrote:
Read the post I made just above yours. If you still don't understand how flawed your math is by then, I'd be happy to explain. But before we go any further, read it.

Actually I was using your math that said 10% or people were buying meseta. Even if 10% were only 200 people the 20 people can make $200 per day. 10% is obviously more than 200 people right now so there is no way people can be making half of my dads salary in one day again going by your 10%.

Notice how I said earlier "I wouldn't be surprised if... 5-10%"

I didn't say 10% directly. I said, at most, 10%, but even that it was an extreme estimate because I used the term "I wouldn't be surprised."

In reality, it's probably lower than 5%.

PMB960

Dec 20, 2006, 02:26 AM

Exactly. And for the 20 or so people who are selling meseta it becomes negligible how much meseta they are putting into the system. Atmost it would be a couple thousand per person per day. They are not giving every single player 1 million per day. It would take months for that to happen. You are saying that they are adding so much money in it is disrupting the entire economy when in reality the money probably adds up to less than 5% of the total meseta.

edit. I wouldn't be suprised means that it would not suprise you if 10% were doing it right? Another words it is very likely 10% are doing it. At most 10% would be an exteme estimate.

[ This Message was edited by: PMB960 on 2006-12-19 23:29 ]

[ This Message was edited by: PMB960 on 2006-12-19 23:29 ]

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:29 AM

On 2006-12-19 23:26, PMB960 wrote:
Exactly. And for the 20 or so people who are selling meseta it becomes negligible how much meseta they are putting into the system. Atmost it would be a couple thousand per person per day. They are not giving every single player 1 million per day. It would take months for that to happen. You are saying that they are adding so much money in it is disrupting the entire economy when in reality the money probably adds up to less than 5% of the total meseta.

The issue is simple:

Dragonkat, and I'm assuming you, are running the math that this money will be distributed in a linear slope across the entire player base.

It doesn't work like that.

Even if we have 32,000 registered players, you must factor out everything I listed above which assumingly(Yes, we HAVE to make assumptions because it's impossible right now to get this information. They aren't a bad thing, they measure severity.) will bring us down to about 20,000 players who actually effect the economy, but a much lower, probably around 15,000 will actually received this purchased money. Depending on what your shop sells in frequency depends on how much of it you will receive.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

Edit to your edit:

On 2006-12-19 23:26, PMB960 wrote:
edit. I wouldn't be suprised means that it would not suprise you if 10% were doing it right? Another words it is very likely 10% are doing it. At most 10% would be an exteme estimate.

Nah, that simply means that in average, in reality, 2-5% of the population actually buy meseta per day in non-extreme cases(Best not to jump over highest cases, averages aren't really meant to be looked at for their highest cases.). The entire population is a different number because of so many variables.

[ This Message was edited by: Bleemo on 2006-12-19 23:33 ]

Dragonkat

Dec 20, 2006, 02:31 AM

Edited my post after reading yours. I read, I laughed, I'm bored of this, back to PSU now. Just for future reference though, it works a bit better when you change your arguement to suit the numbers. Not try to twist numbers to suit your arguement. Well... unless you're a republican anyway... but I digress. And cause I can't resist.

kthxbai =p

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:35 AM

On 2006-12-19 23:31, Dragonkat wrote:
Edited my post after reading yours. I read, I laughed, I'm bored of this, back to PSU now. Just for future reference though, it works a bit better when you change your arguement to suit the numbers. Not try to twist numbers to suit your arguement. Well... unless you're a republican anyway... but I digress. And cause I can't resist.

kthxbai =p
Lol. Your math and numbers really make me laugh.

"Shrinking" the numbers gives us more precise data on the situation. The fact that you believe money will be distributed between all players on the game evenly, even the ones who should be factored out(Including people who are not playing currently.), is quite stupid.

PMB960

Dec 20, 2006, 02:36 AM

Yes you are saying that only a couple people will have lots of meseta. As in it will not be a large problem. If very few people have the meseta that means it won't spread to many other players basically only those who charge 100 milion for an item. It will spread from there and have almost no impact by the time it gets to people who run legit shops since they will only be getting a couple hundred meseta. the only people it will affect are those trying to take advantage of the dupers.

Tenzntwentiez

Dec 20, 2006, 02:37 AM

too much to read. The people who said "HAX! HA!" wont be so sure about that when they get haxxord. thats a give in.

Ffuzzy-Logik

Dec 20, 2006, 02:39 AM

This topic just makes me sad, and not just because of the hax.

ChrisKo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:39 AM

LOL. Wow all of you are so uninformed.

Shortest explanation possible.... Ps2 meseta in circulation = 250million one day. Magically 3 days later circulation = 4.25-5 Billion.

If you want to start number speculation you should have kept up with Ebay public records of the MAJOR 4 sets of 1 Billion meseta sold. The millions slowly add up, but they cannot give you a true idea of how much trash is in circulation.

If you did not pay attention to the events that took place when a majority of this happened.... 3-4 weeks ago please quit trying to crunch numbers.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:40 AM

On 2006-12-19 23:36, PMB960 wrote:
Yes you are saying that only a couple people will have lots of meseta. As in it will not be a large problem. If very few people have the meseta that means it won't spread to many other players basically only those who charge 100 milion for an item. It will spread from there and have almost no impact by the time it gets to people who run legit shops since they will only be getting a couple hundred meseta. the only people it will affect are those trying to take advantage of the dupers.
No, I'm not saying that.

That's simply from purchasing the meseta to distributing it. The second impact comes from the people who receive the money. Yes, smaller definitely not "a few" players will actually receive the money, but this money circulates through the system from the ones who get the money from the buyers.

It doesn't stagnate into one area, it will move throughout the economy. The impacts it will have are as follows:

Gradual price inflation. Super rare items are being sold for an extremely high price, and will continue to be sold that way in the future because people have this kind of money to spend.

Loss in value of items as more players have more money to purchase what we now consider as valuable.

PMB960

Dec 20, 2006, 02:41 AM

Yes it is sad when people don't realize the trickle down affect won't hurt legit players as much as it will those charging 40 million per item. to take advantage of dupers.

PMB960

Dec 20, 2006, 02:44 AM

People will only get that kind of money when they charge absurd prices. I charge 1250 for nanocarbons. If I get money from a duper that isn't spreading much around. The money will be moving through the economy mostly through people who charge large amounts of money for items not people who charge normal amounts. I will see little it any duped money from my shop or trades and others who charge fair prices will see little of it too.

ChrisKo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:44 AM

1. PMB960, you have no idea how an economy, virtual or not, even begins to work. Please stop posting and showing such.

2. Bleemo, it is impossible to teach economics via message boards lol. Please stop trying to teach the kiddies.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:45 AM

On 2006-12-19 23:41, PMB960 wrote:
Yes it is sad when people don't realize the trickle down affect won't hurt legit players as much as it will those charging 40 million per item. to take advantage of dupers.
Actually, I partially agree with you.

Players don't need to sell these items at extremely high prices. I'm always trying to keep my own prices a decent percentage below the current economical value, but to sell a Tengohg bow for 20,000,000 meseta and have it actually bought is just stupid. Legit players should follow the same suit, as the RMT's have allowed so much money into the system, it's pretty much up for grabs whenever you want.

PMB960

Dec 20, 2006, 02:51 AM

That means for the majority of players it won't affect really them then. Yes there are several hundred people maybe even a couple thousand who have tons of duped money. But like PSO if you don't want duped items you stay away from dupers and lock your shop. The majority of players will see very little of this money only dupers/hackers get anything and the shops they use too. It will affect everyone but on such a tiny scale it won't even matter. I am not worried about 5 duped meseta a day.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:55 AM

On 2006-12-19 23:51, PMB960 wrote:
That means for the majority of players it won't affect really them then. Yes there are several hundred people maybe even a couple thousand who have tons of duped money. But like PSO if you don't want duped items you stay away from dupers and lock your shop. The majority of players will see very little of this money only dupers/hackers get anything and the shops they use too. It will affect everyone but on such a tiny scale it won't even matter. I am not worried about 5 duped meseta a day.
Eh, it means the majority of players are going into a game where items don't have much value and can be bought by simple, overpriced profit.

The RMT's impact right now has mainly effected the pool of money available to you, allowing you to pretty much get anything you wanted in a very short amount of time so long as you know what to sell and how to sell it.

This is a rather large problem. No items are truly worked for when this happens, and much value is lost, making the entire game lose some value.

I don't believe you can say that the majority of legit players are not going to be effected by this simply because a few legit players are going to under price their items. In fact, legit players are still legit when they aim for profit--there isn't anything wrong with it. It's just a messed up economy.

PaladinRPG

Dec 20, 2006, 04:47 AM

I've moved my public store to an alt to reduce exposure to random malicious visitors, and passworded my private rooms. I don't intend to change my playstyle in any other ways as that would be letting some silly hackers ruin my fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

FrogKicker

Dec 20, 2006, 08:07 AM

Errr, yall are having a silly argument. If their's a program that allows you to get free meseta on the pc version, it must take some new kind of moron to actually go on ebay to buy it.

*Logic overload*

AngelLight

Dec 20, 2006, 08:21 AM

This is a selfish poll on the part of someone who obviously has not been hacked. Also, to the mods......this is obviously intended as a flame thread (or rapidly became one) so why is this still even open?

PMB960

Dec 20, 2006, 10:29 AM

On 2006-12-19 23:55, Bleemo wrote:

Eh, it means the majority of players are going into a game where items don't have much value and can be bought by simple, overpriced profit.

The RMT's impact right now has mainly effected the pool of money available to you, allowing you to pretty much get anything you wanted in a very short amount of time so long as you know what to sell and how to sell it.

This is a rather large problem. No items are truly worked for when this happens, and much value is lost, making the entire game lose some value.

I don't believe you can say that the majority of legit players are not going to be effected by this simply because a few legit players are going to under price their items. In fact, legit players are still legit when they aim for profit--there isn't anything wrong with it. It's just a messed up economy.

Your logic would be perfect were there no NPC shop in this game. The prices can not go up where people are charging millions of Meseta for monomates. Why would people go to overpriced shops when the NPC shop has stuff for 1/100th of the price. The only place the majority of the money will go is to people who are inflating their prices since most of us know we won't get business if we charge more than the NPC. You are thinking this is a real economy where all prices inflate. But we have one shop where the prices can never change. If inflation get that bad people start dumping money into the NPC shop and it goes out of the system, we don't see it again. If the majority of shops do not raise their prices then the only place for that money to go quickly is either player shops where the price is inflated or the NPC shops because they are cheaper. Either way that money does not really circulate between other players who are charging normal prices. It will but so slowly it doesn't matter.

Natrokos

Dec 20, 2006, 01:10 PM

I don't actually play anymore...I locked myself in my room with a stockpile of food and a pointy stick to 'guard the flame'

Bring it on y2k.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 02:44 PM

On 2006-12-20 07:29, PMB960 wrote:
Your logic would be perfect were there no NPC shop in this game. The prices can not go up where people are charging millions of Meseta for monomates. Why would people go to overpriced shops when the NPC shop has stuff for 1/100th of the price. The only place the majority of the money will go is to people who are inflating their prices since most of us know we won't get business if we charge more than the NPC. You are thinking this is a real economy where all prices inflate. But we have one shop where the prices can never change. If inflation get that bad people start dumping money into the NPC shop and it goes out of the system, we don't see it again. If the majority of shops do not raise their prices then the only place for that money to go quickly is either player shops where the price is inflated or the NPC shops because they are cheaper. Either way that money does not really circulate between other players who are charging normal prices. It will but so slowly it doesn't matter.
You don't have quite a broad understanding of video game economies I'm assuming.

When I say "price inflation" it is never about cheap, standard items that can be bought by an NPC, crafted easily, or hell even found easily. Price inflation only involves items truly worth inflating; the rarest items. I.E. the recent Tengohg Bow, 44%+ elemental weapons, and any or other items that have very high value.

It's evident what I mean. I'm sure you've heard all of the stories of Tengohg Bows being sold for 20 million, and back before patch how even my Goldania(Which at the time was quite rare since I was the only other one selling them; the other was selling them for 1m meseta a piece.) sold for 350,000 meseta a piece. The real issue of price inflation is that any item that has high value will be sold no matter what the price, even if it's in the millions. If the RMT currency flood had not been introduced into the economy, this would never be possible and we would be forced to sell these items at reasonable prices.

This money circulates all over the place to anyone who has a shop. Depending on what you sell and in what frequency determines how much of this money you will receive. I'm sure you have heard of the player "Box" who has made, assumingly from another post on these forums, 50+ million meseta since the update where we obtained A ranks. Now, you really can't tell me that in that short period of time, if RMT's had not been introduced, he could have made 50+ million.

This is a prime example of who receives the bulk of this money. It only goes down the chain from there, but ultimately money usually never stagnates in one area unless it's in such a large bulk you can't spend it all. However, for people who actually buy meseta, they always have a reason to, and that is to spend it. People don't buy that meseta to keep on them, just like any online gaming currency. So, when they buy this meseta, there is a very very high chance of all of it being introduced into the economy in some form.

Garroway

Dec 20, 2006, 03:29 PM

I was going to vote on moving back to the xbox 360 early but it seems I'm stranded on the PC/PS2 for the time being. I made a commitment to play the PS2 version for the rest of the year before going back to the 360 so I could give the PS2/PC version a legitimate chance but it seems my 360 has given up the ghost so to speak. Since this is the season to empty your bank accounts and I'm a little too responsible to go raping my emergency fund, I'll not be able to replace the xbox until probably February.

LightBreaker

Dec 20, 2006, 04:01 PM

Moved over to the 360 version. /wave to level 56 fortetecher. Actually, I bought both versions at the same time cause of a split in friends so I at least have a some what built up character.

[ This Message was edited by: LightBreaker on 2006-12-20 13:02 ]

[ This Message was edited by: LightBreaker on 2006-12-20 13:07 ]

Inspektahdek

Dec 20, 2006, 06:25 PM

On 2006-12-19 08:45, Parn wrote:
Hasn't changed a thing for me. All the people I play with are still awesome, and I'm still as sexy as ever no matter what happens.

man you are seriously gay, seriously

Kanju

Dec 20, 2006, 06:34 PM

On 2006-12-20 15:25, Inspektahdek wrote:

On 2006-12-19 08:45, Parn wrote:
Hasn't changed a thing for me. All the people I play with are still awesome, and I'm still as sexy as ever no matter what happens.

man you are seriously gay, seriously

Loving yourself isn't gay, it's narcissism.

DikkyRay

Dec 20, 2006, 06:38 PM

On 2006-12-19 08:45, Parn wrote:
Hasn't changed a thing for me. All the people I play with are still awesome, and I'm still as sexy as ever no matter what happens.

plus hackers would be afraid to hack you....
*someasswhothinkshes1337*"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I hacked Parn! I M KEWL http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif!"
10 minutes later....
+every fucking member of psow goes on a strict manhunt and bans the asswhothinkshes1337+

AC9breaker

Dec 20, 2006, 06:39 PM

Obviously he's talking about being happy, and obviously Parn is a happy guy.

I feel gay everytime he's around too! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_turtle.gif

DikkyRay

Dec 20, 2006, 06:49 PM

Zio

Dec 20, 2006, 06:56 PM

I've locked my shop, and that's about it. A broken economy has really no affect on me. I put things up for sale, I make money, I buy weapons/weapon boards, rinse, repeat.

PMB960

Dec 20, 2006, 06:58 PM

I think Bleemo that you are over estimating the number of people who dupe money. If it were tons of people and this has been going on for a month then every player would be running around with several hundred thousand meseta. Doing a search right now there are 30 players selling Goldania, 50 advertising rare weapons, and 25 more advertising units. If I take 5 times that number and assume that only 5000 people play PSU then that would be 10% of the population. If that many people were doing that for the past month the economy would be shot already. And that is assuming all the people selling Goldania, units, and rare weapons were all over charging for it and getting several million a day. If those people are getting 100 million meseta a day that would equal out to and extra 10 million for every single player in the game every single day for a month. This is obviously not happening. This will not be an instantaneous thing. It will flood the market eventually but I can't see that happening for several more months.

-Dainslef-

Dec 20, 2006, 07:01 PM

It's important to note, for everyone here talking about locking your shop:

Read the sticky.

LOCKING YOUR SHOP WILL NOT PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING PM BOMBED.

That is all. =/

/edit Arislan edited for clarity. Locking your shop does *nothing* to protect against this. It operates regardless of a locked or unlocked shop. Your shop items are not at risk however, only PM name/level/decorations. Take care.

[ This Message was edited by: -Dainslef- on 2006-12-20 16:02 ]

HiKeRI

Dec 20, 2006, 07:18 PM

On 2006-12-20 15:49, DikkyRay wrote:

On 2006-12-20 15:25, Inspektahdek wrote:

On 2006-12-19 08:45, Parn wrote:
Hasn't changed a thing for me. All the people I play with are still awesome, and I'm still as sexy as ever no matter what happens.

man you are seriously gay, seriously

obviously he doesnt know Parn
Parn gets the most ass i have ever seen. I see other guys beg Parn for leftovers XD

Lol'd

rush340

Dec 20, 2006, 10:19 PM

This message has been a pubic service announcement from the Dragonkat center for happyland legit funness, we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Hahahahaha... pubic service announcement...

Sorry, none if this affects me, yet. I'm on the 360.

DoubleJG

Dec 20, 2006, 10:40 PM

My room has always been locked since launch day so, none of those options really apply to me. I went with option 1 because ya, haha.

Bleemo

Dec 20, 2006, 10:58 PM

On 2006-12-20 15:58, PMB960 wrote:
I think Bleemo that you are over estimating the number of people who dupe money. If it were tons of people and this has been going on for a month then every player would be running around with several hundred thousand meseta. Doing a search right now there are 30 players selling Goldania, 50 advertising rare weapons, and 25 more advertising units. If I take 5 times that number and assume that only 5000 people play PSU then that would be 10% of the population. If that many people were doing that for the past month the economy would be shot already. And that is assuming all the people selling Goldania, units, and rare weapons were all over charging for it and getting several million a day. If those people are getting 100 million meseta a day that would equal out to and extra 10 million for every single player in the game every single day for a month. This is obviously not happening. This will not be an instantaneous thing. It will flood the market eventually but I can't see that happening for several more months.
Eh... I have no idea where that math is coming from man, lol. All of what you've said has nothing to do with currency being introduced into the economy. You're running simple math to explain everything, it just doesn't work like that. If you can provide a more detailed explanation to this, I could reply to it.

Anyway, regarding your statement about overestimating the number of people who purchase meseta, you're underestimating the popularity of RMT's. I've already explained how the economy has been impacted by dirty money, and the buyers of meseta are the majority of that cause.(Because you need a good percentage of the population to participate in ruining the economy.) If you can give me a logical explanation as to how the economy hasn't been impacted, by all means go for it.