Is a PSU PS2/PC 'Rust Storm' immanent?

[imfanboy]

Dunno if you were familiar with it, but... basically, at one point in time, the Diablo II servers were so rife with hacked weapons, armors, maxed money, etcetera, etcetera, that the people running the server went, "Well, that's too much" -

And deleted everyone's weapons.

And everyone's money.

And everone's armor.

Your character levels were the same, but they gave you basic weapons and said, "Go to it buddy!"

Or at least so I'd heard - I was long gone off Diablo II, driven away by hackers. So my version of this story may be inaccurate to some degree.


Do you think ST might be waiting for them to find ways to permanently patch the game, then rust storm us?


Now, I'd actually PREFER this to a full rollback. I still have my PMs. I still have my characters.

But the idea does kind of cut down my urge to grind my Arb Hadocs to +10.

I can always find and synth items again - they might have worse %s but they might have better %s too.

And honestly, I seriously think that this would be the best solution.

The nice thing about the way that the game is set up is that item loss isn't the DEVASTATING thing it was on PSO - there are only a few 'uber' rares to hunt for which aren't possible to synth, and resetting everyone to zero...

Well, it wouldn't be fun.

But it would be better than a full rollback.




What do you guys think? Keep your characters, but lose your items?

[Gazette]

I'd be more apt to assume they'd use the rollback like they did on the JP servers a while back.

In essence it's going to have the same effect considering most of us would be horribly gimped in the new missions with nothing but a saber or a wand.
The whole prospect of removing items and meseta just doesn' t seem practical.

[MaKaVeLi_X]

Only problem is Diablo 2 Is free, this isn't. Theyll lose Most customers.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MaKaVeLi_X on 2006-12-19 13:06 ]</font>

[mogshaz]

On 2006-12-19 13:04, Gazette wrote:
I'd be more apt to assume they'd use the rollback like they did on the JP servers a while back.

In essence it's going to have the same effect considering most of us would be horribly gimped in the new missions with nothing but a saber or a wand.
The whole prospect of removing items and meseta just doesn' t seem practical.



the whole idea is impractical. The problem is the cheaters can cheat. It would take them maybe a week to get back to where they were while the rest of the community would either quit or be stuck in the stone age.

[Genobee]

They better give us 2 free months or some thing

[Gazette]

On 2006-12-19 13:08, mogshaz wrote:

the whole idea is impractical. The problem is the cheaters can cheat. It would take them maybe a week to get back to where they were while the rest of the community would either quit or be stuck in the stone age.


I never said a rollback was any more or less practical, but they did use it to patch some things that people were getting away with, or so I've read.

I also hear they gave them free playtime during the period following the rollback.. so, aye.

[Sinue_v2]

I'd be all for it - but I honestly don't trust Sonic Team to make the changes needed to prevent future cheating. Losing that much effort is bad enough - but losing it every two to three months is rediculous.


Only problem is Diablo 2 Is free, this isn't. Theyll lose Most customers.

I honestly don't think Sonic Team would care that much. They put up the double-save which drove most of their PSO customers away, and never even fliched at the idea of removing it. They get a good 80% (I'd imagine) of their online subscriber fees from the JP market anyhow - considering the game has pretty well tanked over here. Pissing off a few EU's and NA's for the sake of a mock server security stunt isn't beyond them.

[Genobee]

Or they can use the 10 bucks I'm paying them each month and make a fucking patch.

[mogshaz]

On 2006-12-19 13:23, Genobee wrote:
Or they can use the 10 bucks I'm paying them each month and make a fucking patch.



that would just be too easy.

[Realmz]

where the hell is all this comming from?

i leave /b/ for five minutes and look what happens

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Realmz on 2006-12-19 13:44 ]</font>

[imfanboy]

I'm talking about a ruststorm AFTER they fix the hacks - it would be, well... not BAD to do it now because there wouldn't be any good items for them to spend those millions of meseta on.

And they couldn't exactly do their OWN synthing could they? It would be a pretty dead giveaway of who's a cheater if they come into your store and say, "Here's the mats and the board. Synth this item or I PM Zero you."


But regardless, I'm talking about AFTER a server patch. They've fixed one meseta duping hack already - fix this one! Then wait a few weeks to make sure that new ones don't come out, then rust storm with an apology and some months of free play, and then...

Well, the rollback seems more likely. And if they gave me free months of play, I'd probably take it - I enjoy building levels more than I enjoy having them. (the PM's the only thing that would tick me off).

But a rust-storm would be a good compromise, I'd think.

[PMB960]

I would rather lose my equipment than everything especially my PM considering I created all those casts to make it. I really don't have anything of value on my characters at all other than one or two 5* weapons so I don't care. If they do a roll back my main character will go back about 10 levels with two of my alts going back to level 1 from 20 assuming they roll back 3 weeks or so.

[etlitch]

No. I worked for my shit, I got lucky some times and found good drops. I don't feel like loosing that.

You can see these "hackers" buying up rares. The thing is they they'l probaly never be able to find these "rares" by themselves thru gameplay. Most of the so called "hackers" only seem to be people who are too bored with the game, just get some new toys and eventually get tired resulting in them quitting.

After patching all the exploits? Well who would care, the game already has enough mesata sinkholes- I doubt those 99mill of mesata will last long again repeated fails of 9* synths. With noone "injecting" more mesata, people will soon realise "hey, I'm not selling my overpriced shit- and my shop is getting full. Time to lower the prices" resulting in the econ returning to "normal".

Only sad thing is those players who got their shit messed up(pm bombing, deco stolen, etc.) from the exploits.

Fixing mesata dupes? AFAIK nothing has been fixed at all. Patching GameGuard should'nt last too long either. You ask if there should be a "item wipe" after the "hacks" gets "patched", I ask if there's going to be any "patch" in the first place.

Oh, and 10$? Screw 10$. I spend more than 10$ for a single meal from time to time.



Even if

[Randomness]

On 2006-12-19 14:55, etlitch wrote:
No. I worked for my shit, I got lucky some times and found good drops. I don't feel like loosing that.

You can see these "hackers" buying up rares. The thing is they they'l probaly never be able to find these "rares" by themselves thru gameplay. Most of the so called "hackers" only seem to be people who are too bored with the game, just get some new toys and eventually get tired resulting in them quitting.

After patching all the exploits? Well who would care, the game already has enough mesata sinkholes- I doubt those 99mill of mesata will last long again repeated fails of 9* synths. With noone "injecting" more mesata, people will soon realise "hey, I'm not selling my overpriced shit- and my shop is getting full. Time to lower the prices" resulting in the econ returning to "normal".

Only sad thing is those players who got their shit messed up(pm bombing, deco stolen, etc.) from the exploits.

Fixing mesata dupes? AFAIK nothing has been fixed at all. Patching GameGuard should'nt last too long either. You ask if there should be a "item wipe" after the "hacks" gets "patched", I ask if there's going to be any "patch" in the first place.

Oh, and 10$? Screw 10$. I spend more than 10$ for a single meal from time to time.



Even if



Actually, you have some points there... the issue is that not everyone knows NPC prices or can find out JP prices on the stuff that isn't in NPC shops. We have the luxury of being able to ask.

[AlphaMinotaux]

Diablo II was so much fun, Hackers gave it a nice feel imo http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif same with PSO ya know, till ya got FSOD and lost all data

[Sinue_v2]

Most of the so called "hackers" only seem to be people who are too bored with the game, just get some new toys and eventually get tired resulting in them quitting.

I don't think you really understand how it works. Generally it starts with them just using non-malicious code to impress other people. Then they move on to attacking other players once that gets boring. If nothing is done about it, eventually only the cheaters will be left - and they'll start warring between the cheating clans.

They're not doing it because they're bored... or because they're just trying to have some fun. They do it because they enjoy pissing you off and trying to exert some form of control over you. Trying to make you their bitch.

For example... some IG twit posted here that the way to stop the PM bombing raids was for people to tell Sega to stop banning people "for no reason". If their problem was with Sega - then why are they not attacking Sega? They're taking it out on the rest of the community. This isn't to get back at Sega. This is done because they want to piss you off. If Sega would stop banning offenders, then this trend would not only continue - but it would INCREASE. Dramatically. They'd simply find another excuse to try to blame their actions on and continue on unabated.

They won't get bored and quit until there is noone left to greif.

[Choja]

On 2006-12-19 13:44, Realmz wrote:
where the hell is all this comming from?

i leave /b/ for five minutes and look what happens

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Realmz on 2006-12-19 13:44 ]</font>
Get back in your /b/, anonymous.

So, that means that I can't gloat and be a jackass because other people have the power to be an even BIGGER jackass? Fuck that.

If there happens to be a rust storm, I'll just go "beh" and restart again. Other people have valuables, but I unfortunately don't, so maybe I'm a different case.

Your two best weapons against hackers: Ignorance and moving on. If you ignore them and stop mentioning them over and over, they'll be once again anonymous. and they better get back to /b/, damn it. Moving on is that you know everything isn't permnament and that it will be lost somehow, so exert full power on ze shits. ;D

Okay, ignore me. That's a good way to work. D:

[AeraLure]

Oh god no lol. This topic exists on the official forums and saw some heated interchanges. I'll simply summarize what i said there:

As I understand the exploit, no patch will fix it for good. To fix it for good, they need to rewrite large parts of the code and bring more or all transactions server side. Takes resources, time, testing etc and raises compatability issues, to the point where I would not expect to see anything of this sort before the expansion, if they even rip apart code for that either. A patch obviously is a workaround which itself can be worked around.

Therefore, an economy wipe, much as I support the idea, is a bad idea and wont happen, since they cant put in place what is needed to prevent it from continuing after said rollback or wipe. This is first assuming they could even sell the idea of a wipe to the majority of the population. Given the general response to the concept on the official forums, that would be a no.

Rollback is effectively the same thing, but worse. Here we lose character levels as well, and just how far back do they have to go now? Three weeks? More? My level 47 Cast Fortegunner 3 returns to level 12. Woo.

I tried saying I supported an economy wipe in concept, since I do. Idealistic notion sure, since it presumes all of the testing and recoding etc to prevent duping on the level we see it are stopped. Cant see it happening though because I cant see them solving that issue. I even said I cant see that happening and just that I supported only the idealism of the notion iteself, and still got flamed.

Cant even raise it as a notion, so I am almost certain if SEGA provided the miracle code fix, they cant sell the concept of a wipe or rollback to go along with it. I'd be on board for the ride though. I'd stay for it. Only one maybe, but hey. Worry not though. Not gonna happen.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AeraLure on 2006-12-19 15:25 ]</font>

[Candor]

I just gonna say that a rollback/wipe is the only thing that'll keep me here. if something isn't done i'm moving on to better things.

[mogshaz]

I still don't understand why you would want a rollback if it isn't proceeded and followed by some patching.

[Randomness]

On 2006-12-19 15:34, Candor wrote:
I just gonna say that a rollback/wipe is the only thing that'll keep me here. if something isn't done i'm moving on to better things.



Well, my personal preference would be for everyone to end up with equipment based on their character level..

Level 1-10 gets 1 star, 11-20 2 star, 21-30 3 star, etc. until 51-60, and give everything a couple grinds free. Decide what weapons will be given for each class, and give 6 pallete slots total to each player.

Still a total wipe, but at least players end up with decent gear.

As for armor, Yohmei to Newmans, Tenora to Beasts, GRM to others, and at the appropriate star level with neutral element.

[Ryoki]

On 2006-12-19 15:38, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-12-19 15:34, Candor wrote:
I just gonna say that a rollback/wipe is the only thing that'll keep me here. if something isn't done i'm moving on to better things.



Well, my personal preference would be for everyone to end up with equipment based on their character level..

Level 1-10 gets 1 star, 11-20 2 star, 21-30 3 star, etc. until 51-60, and give everything a couple grinds free. Decide what weapons will be given for each class, and give 6 pallete slots total to each player.

Still a total wipe, but at least players end up with decent gear.

As for armor, Yohmei to Newmans, Tenora to Beasts, GRM to others, and at the appropriate star level with neutral element.


I would puncture my eyes. Tenora armor sucks so much ass without a extra slot...

[Candor]

On 2006-12-19 15:36, mogshaz wrote:
I still don't understand why you would want a rollback if it isn't proceeded and followed by some patching.


i wouldn't.

And yea randomness that would be prefered, but not expected.

I'm just full of sunshine today ain't i?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Candor on 2006-12-19 15:45 ]</font>

[Randomness]

On 2006-12-19 15:41, Ryoki wrote:

On 2006-12-19 15:38, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-12-19 15:34, Candor wrote:
I just gonna say that a rollback/wipe is the only thing that'll keep me here. if something isn't done i'm moving on to better things.



Well, my personal preference would be for everyone to end up with equipment based on their character level..

Level 1-10 gets 1 star, 11-20 2 star, 21-30 3 star, etc. until 51-60, and give everything a couple grinds free. Decide what weapons will be given for each class, and give 6 pallete slots total to each player.

Still a total wipe, but at least players end up with decent gear.

As for armor, Yohmei to Newmans, Tenora to Beasts, GRM to others, and at the appropriate star level with neutral element.


I would puncture my eyes. Tenora armor sucks so much ass without a extra slot...



Hey, under my idea, you'd be getting 5* Tenora.

[mogshaz]

On 2006-12-19 15:43, Candor wrote:

On 2006-12-19 15:36, mogshaz wrote:
I still don't understand why you would want a rollback if it isn't proceeded and followed by some patching.


i wouldn't.

And yea randomness that would be prefered, but not expected.

I'm just full of sunshine today ain't i?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Candor on 2006-12-19 15:45 ]</font>


I am sorry, i was asking in general. Normally when this thread pops up it just mentions the rollback which will do nothing but pissoff the legit users if it doesn't succeed in at least stopping the PM bombing.

[Candor]

i would hope ST isn't stupid enough to rollback without first having a fix, so i thought it was implied.

[AeraLure]

I like Randomness's idea too. I'd go for that as well.

My original idea was meseta wipe and item wipe, save for equipped items and what's on your action palette. Granted, it allows one to bring in a host of A ranks maybe they dont deserve, but its not terribly many, and the upside is it allows those who worked hard and deserve what they own at least bring some of it with them. PM levels are untouched, as are character development. Room decorations? I really dont see the need to wipe those, but I'm not going to miss them either.

Anyway, Randomness's idea is good. I'd support that too. Wish they'd do it actually, but like I said, not going to happen. I wrote them Sunday about these issues and straight out asked them for a reply or some action, or an announcement - somthing - anything at all - acknowledgement? what they will do? - by Friday am, else I am done myself. Its Tuesday. They have some time yet, but the talk on the official forums gives me the hint that it would be a terribly hard sell, and then there are the technical woes. Wouldnt kill them to at least say something. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: AeraLure on 2006-12-19 15:56 ]</font>

[Randomness]

On 2006-12-19 15:49, Candor wrote:
i would hope ST isn't stupid enough to rollback without first having a fix, so i thought it was implied.



Yeah... that goes without saying, but with people's opinion of ST...

[mogshaz]

On 2006-12-19 15:53, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-12-19 15:49, Candor wrote:
i would hope ST isn't stupid enough to rollback without first having a fix, so i thought it was implied.



Yeah... that goes without saying, but with people's opinion of ST...



I hope you don't expect better from them, cause you're in for a let down if you expect too much.

[Sinue_v2]

There's always the option of actually DOING these major re-writes and hiring an outside firm (NOT GAMEGUARD) to handle security. Then simply re-releasing the game in the west with a lot more content unlocked, some new stuff, perhaps a free month or two, and a bunch of goodies for people who migrate over. Within a year or so - shut down the current PSU servers - ala JP Ep I & II v 1.0.

So long as the cheating doesn't get too bad, they could perhaps even bring over charaters that are properly wiped of meseta, items, ect so that you don't lose TOTAL progress.

Although, I think by that point, it's pretty much a fruitless effort trying to get their customer base back.

[Randomness]

On 2006-12-19 16:13, mogshaz wrote:

On 2006-12-19 15:53, Randomness wrote:

On 2006-12-19 15:49, Candor wrote:
i would hope ST isn't stupid enough to rollback without first having a fix, so i thought it was implied.



Yeah... that goes without saying, but with people's opinion of ST...



I hope you don't expect better from them, cause you're in for a let down if you expect too much.



3 weeks in a row with updates, and another thursday.
Updates are coming along nicely for PSU.

[DarkSeph]

They wont rollback the 360........period!

So unless we ARE hacked keep your f#$%ing mouths shut you hater/losers!!!!!!!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkSeph on 2006-12-19 17:07 ]</font>

[MaKaVeLi_X]

I think a rollback would be kind of fun -_^... thats just me though

[DarkSeph]

On 2006-12-19 17:08, MaKaVeLi_X wrote:
I think a rollback would be kind of fun -_^... thats just me though



Then delete all your characters.....DERRR!!!

[Bleemo]

I'd prefer a rollback, complete wipe, whatever. Just take everything off, fix these God forsaken issues, and start over. That's just me personally, though.

Anyway, a Rust Storm really couldn't happen. Rust Storms targeted items in specific, duplicated items. Duplicated items have the same item number as the item it was duplicated from. Rust Storm basically went and looked for and deleted all of these items. We're not seeing any item issues(yet), all of our issues are from the meseta being duplicated.

It would most likely be too difficult unless they just did a complete meseta wipe on all characters, but that wouldn't fix the issue, simply because these "cheaters" are crafting meseta from thin air. We need a solid fix before anything can be done, and that is why I believe Sega has let us down yet again by not providing us that fix after it has been so long.

[Randomness]

On 2006-12-19 17:18, Bleemo wrote:
I'd prefer a rollback, complete wipe, whatever. Just take everything off, fix these God forsaken issues, and start over. That's just me personally, though.

Anyway, a Rust Storm really couldn't happen. Rust Storms targeted items in specific, duplicated items. Duplicated items have the same item number as the item it was duplicated from. Rust Storm basically went and looked for and deleted all of these items. We're not seeing any item issues(yet), all of our issues are from the meseta being duplicated.

It would most likely be too difficult unless they just did a complete meseta wipe on all characters, but that wouldn't fix the issue, simply because these "cheaters" are crafting meseta from thin air. We need a solid fix before anything can be done, and that is why I believe Sega has let us down yet again by not providing us that fix after it has been so long.



Ah. Well, then they should put out this update, and get to work double time on fixing it, then do an ambush meseta wipe.

Check and mate.

[MaKaVeLi_X]

On 2006-12-19 17:11, DarkSeph wrote:

On 2006-12-19 17:08, MaKaVeLi_X wrote:
I think a rollback would be kind of fun -_^... thats just me though



Then delete all your characters.....DERRR!!!



It would only be fun If everyone was equal again.

[Laranas]

I remember on PSO:BB my account was hacked (well, mostly every account I've ever had) by the end of the Open Beta month. My Lv120 character was deleted, another character was made, and instead of started again (is was just a month, right?) I said "Fsck it" and quit cold turkey. I'll do the same if there's a wipe/NOL/whatever here. If they delete items, fine. I can make/find them again. But if they delete my PM or my character and make me build again from the ground up, I'm gone.

Deleting items is one thing but burning the bridge you need to find it again is another.

[CelestialBlade]

How exactly is Sonic Team going to stop hackers, anyway? You kinda can't. They'll find ways, they always do. Overall it'd be a loss for Sonic Team to go crazy about stopping hackers. These guys are numerous and persistant. Good freaking luck stopping all of them, seriously.

I'd like to see more realistic fixes myself, like the room glitch where you end up in another person's room but you get to treat it like it's your own. That you can fix, and it'd solve a whole lot of problems. And maybe make rooms more secure. Password locking isn't going to cut it, perhaps there should be more security for those with open stores. Maybe just nix the Recent Visitors thing altogether, that'd be a start.

And regarding rollbacks....just remember that it only takes a single push of a button to erase your "hard work." Never assume it's all set in stone in the first place....keep that in mind and you'll find you tend to get less pissed about minor setbacks. Shit happens.

[Laranas]

On 2006-12-19 18:32, Typheros wrote:
How exactly is Sonic Team going to stop hackers, anyway? You kinda can't. They'll find ways, they always do. Overall it'd be a loss for Sonic Team to go crazy about stopping hackers. These guys are numerous and persistant. Good freaking luck stopping all of them, seriouslyAnd they're script kiddies. Maybe 2 of them out there know a thing about hacking, the others mindlessly follow directions.

[DarkSeph]

On 2006-12-19 17:35, MaKaVeLi_X wrote:

On 2006-12-19 17:11, DarkSeph wrote:

On 2006-12-19 17:08, MaKaVeLi_X wrote:
I think a rollback would be kind of fun -_^... thats just me though



Then delete all your characters.....DERRR!!!



It would only be fun If everyone was equal again.



You want Equality eh!.....Get a 360!

Otherwise let them wipe YOUR servers! and leave OURS out of it...

....pathetic!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkSeph on 2006-12-19 18:48 ]</font>

[BloodDragoon]

Got a better idea DarkSeph. Pull your head out of your ass.

1. Why the hell would someone spend over $500 between getting a 360, PSU, and sales tax on said items just to only play PSU?

2. This discussion was about the PS2/PC servers in the first place so maybe reading everything before posting in the first place would be a good idea.

[hucast21]

On 2006-12-19 18:40, Laranas wrote:

On 2006-12-19 18:32, Typheros wrote:
How exactly is Sonic Team going to stop hackers, anyway? You kinda can't. They'll find ways, they always do. Overall it'd be a loss for Sonic Team to go crazy about stopping hackers. These guys are numerous and persistant. Good freaking luck stopping all of them, seriouslyAnd they're script kiddies. Maybe 2 of them out there know a thing about hacking, the others mindlessly follow directions.



Winner

[Lit]

They can do anything they want, as long as they fix it and cheat wont happen but cheating exists almost in all online games.
So Items is replaceable /but the time it took to find the item isnt / but times always go forward/
and earth will explode anyways in 4.5 million years / / love

[DarkSeph]

On 2006-12-19 19:02, BloodDragoon wrote:
Got a better idea DarkSeph. Pull your head out of your ass.

1. Why the hell would someone spend over $500 between getting a 360, PSU, and sales tax on said items just to only play PSU?

2. This discussion was about the PS2/PC servers in the first place so maybe reading everything before posting in the first place would be a good idea.




HAHAHAHAHA.....finally, someone got their buttons pushed......

...Mission Accomplished!

HA HA BloodDragoon, You Da Wiener, You Da Wiener!

[DarkSeph]

On 2006-12-19 19:02, BloodDragoon wrote:
Got a better idea DarkSeph. Pull your head out of your ass.

1. Why the hell would someone spend over $500 between getting a 360, PSU, and sales tax on said items just to only play PSU?

2. This discussion was about the PS2/PC servers in the first place so maybe reading everything before posting in the first place would be a good idea.




Oh, and not all of us "borrow" our parents computer to play "video games".....

....that's what a "console" is for......Der!



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkSeph on 2006-12-19 19:17 ]</font>

[Genobee]

You have to give it to Bilzzard, The effectifly suppress hacking and they will notify you if some one is hack and waht to look for. I can honestly say, Being playing WoW for a year I never ran into anyone who hacked or had illegal mods, and I've only heard rumors form friends and uualy ended in said person getting banned or the mods getting patched overthe enxt update, yet they do this while even while having Creating new content, managing updates and a community. But sega an't doing shit and I'm paying them for it, they can't evemn get off thier ass and fix a simple hack like duping?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Genobee on 2006-12-19 19:19 ]</font>

[BloodDragoon]

If you think you pushed my buttons you're sadly mistaken. I simply posted in a manner that you would be able to comprehend.

[DarkSeph]

On 2006-12-19 19:20, BloodDragoon wrote:
If you think you pushed my buttons you're sadly mistaken. I simply posted in a manner that you would be able to comprehend.



So your attempting to talk with intellegence eh?

...well I'll commend you on the effort http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[DarkSeph]

On 2006-12-19 19:02, BloodDragoon wrote:
Got a better idea DarkSeph. Pull your head out of your ass.

1. Why the hell would someone spend over $500 between getting a 360, PSU, and sales tax on said items just to only play PSU?

2. This discussion was about the PS2/PC servers in the first place so maybe reading everything before posting in the first place would be a good idea.




Your right though BloodDragoon, I'd much rather pay for a Console than a Computer that costs double the price, and not including game fees, game price, putting up with hackers, having to worry about them wiping things clean http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif....or let me speak in "commercial" terms since you obviously spend all your time in front of a "tv"

Xbox 360: 425 Dollars...

Wireless Internet: 60 Dollars...

Wireless Controller, PSU Game, Hunters Liscence: 120 Dollars...

......Being able to play PSU without running into Hackers......PRICELESS!!!

There's some things Money can't Buy! For everything else theirs Mastercard....Xbox 360 and PSU Approved! http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[BloodDragoon]

Funny, Circuit City down the street has PC's that meet the recommended requirements for PSU for $500 + tax. I personally use my PC for the internet, FFXI, graphical design and artwork, word proccessing, and record keeping. So for $100 more you get something with much more practical utility than a 360. Clearwire offers 1.5mb broadband connections in my area for $39.99. However if you look at my sig I don't even bother with playing PSU on my PC. I use one of my PS2's because between working fulltime and RL obligations my playtime is sporadic at best and it saves me the trouble of closing and restarting the game since I can just leave the game on all the time and just flip the selector box between it and the TV off.

Point made was going out and buying a 360 + accessories JUST to play PSU is in my view a bad financial investment.

I knew beforehand people were going to cheat in some way, shape, or form on PSU before I bought it. You'd have to be delusional not to.

[Dhylec]

Guys, stay on topic & keep your flamebaits/flamings away. It's not wise to continue after my warning.

[BloodDragoon]

In regards to the idea mentioned earlier about a server rollback after fixing the programing holes that allowed the meseta duping in the first place. I think they could flush most of that duped currency from the servers just by adding A rank grinder boards and bases in the synthesis shops.

[HC82]

Rollback wouldn't make any sense. It's a minority of people that have been affected and the economy hasn't been dented on a mass scale. Theres no point in taking away weeks of hard work from a majority of players, due to the unfortunate events of a minority of players. If anything, just roll back the people who got screwed. Prices in shops HAVE NOT been altered in anyway due to the hacking. If anything, most shops are simply locked out of fear.

Theres no need for a rollback. The only thing needed would be a patch if anything.

[BloodDragoon]

Something else to point out is PSU's synthesis system which would be the games equivilent to crafting seems to pull more currency out of server circulation than any other game's crafting system that I can think of atm. WoW you could raise your crafting skills by finding all your materials quite easily and the only currency investment would be some auction house fees and recipe purchases from the guild's NPC's. FFXI you could always count on someone farming the materials you needed to raise your crafting skills and selling them on the AH. From there you buy said materials and use them in synthesis recipes then sell the products in your bazaar or back on the AH. Currency exchange to NPC's there is pretty much AH fees and synthesis imagery support provided you even used it. The rest went to another player. PSU sure you can find boards. But the good ones that sell well tend to not drop that often meaning to really start turning out alot of weapon/armor synths you end up buying them from the shop. You can farm materials. Alot of times you end up wanting to upgrade materials to the higher grade ones that you need. So back to the shop to buy that board. Then factor in failure rates on high grade equipment. (Yay a 50K monomate!) It leads me to think the player based item creation system in this game was designed to eat meseta. Almost like maybe sega expected it to happen at some point too... >.>



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: BloodDragoon on 2006-12-19 21:18 ]</font>

[DarkSeph]

On 2006-12-19 20:17, Dhylec wrote:
Guys, stay on topic & keep your flamebaits/flamings away. It's not wise to continue after my warning.



Sorry Dhylec, I shouldn't have posted what I did.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkSeph on 2006-12-19 21:21 ]</font>

[Pengfishh]

So folks are creating meseta? What is the proper issue here, I'm in the dark on this whole thing (and will remain so!).

[watashiwa]

If they patched the exploits, I'd be all for a full wipe.

[ViciousXUSMC]

and then they would find new exploits.. then what wipe the server again?

[Kent]

On 2006-12-19 22:33, ViciousXUSMC wrote:
and then they would find new exploits.. then what wipe the server again?



Yeah. Kinda like The Matrix.

I can't honestly say I'd be for a full wipe. Something ... creative certainly needs to be done, though.

[watashiwa]

Well, okay, I'd be for a full wipe NOW.. but if there were more exploits.. I guess I'd also hope for a 24-48 hour response time so they can just do a day or two roll back instead of a full wipe..

They've let too much time pass with the current exploits to do a roll back now, though.

[imfanboy]

OK. Issue is pretty simple, and highlighted by an encounter 2 days ago.

I was searching shops for Kerseline and bumped across a legit guy with 5 million meseta - he'd just sold a 50% Ice Bone Dance to a guy. We talked for a little while, and a guy came in to this random store we were both in, looked at the shop (which had a bone dance for 1 million in it) and walked away. This guy had maybe 200k meseta on him - I took a look.

The two of us kept talking, and about 20 minutes later this guy came back into the shop - and now, all of a sudden, he had 3 million meseta. IF he'd just had that on another character, why would it have taken him 20 minutes, not 2, to get it?

Nope, he just made it, wanted the bone dance, bought it, and the walked out - and on other servers, a Bone Dance goes for maybe 200-300k, POSSIBLY for that much, but only as a display "Hey, look what I made!"

It's... not all that bad. But still, pretty bad.

[Jedah]

Wouldn't mind a wipe. Not like I'm carrying anything that can't be replaced STAT. Just wouldn't want another in D2 right now though... >:/

[Shazbot]

Anybody remember when the JP PSO EP.II came out on GC and a duping method was quickly found? Then Sega let the Jpeeps trade in their copy of the game for a fixed version and stuffed everybody's bank full of mag cells? I'd be down for that. Especially if it were mag cells in my bank.

[Shaidar]

A rust storm like Blizzards wouldn't be too bad. Hell, I could probably survive a wipe as well. The problem is that unless the exploits are 100% fixed, which I doubt they'll be, a wipe would just hurt PSU. The cheaters would just gain an even larger advantage over the other players, meaning even more people would get pissed off and leave.

First step is to deal with the exploits and prevent future abuse. As long as people stop selling things badly overpriced and the economy recovers that might be all that's needed.

Meh, I don't feel like making a rant out of this. *walks away*

[Garnet_Moon]

You do a roll back or a wipe for an American audience for a game like PSU and I garauntee there'll only be 10 people left when the servers go back up. If the exploit isn't fixed when the servers go live again expect said company to die. No ifs and its or buts about it. To do this is to commit suicide, figuratively speaking.

[Bleemo]

On 2006-12-19 23:55, Garnet_Moon wrote:
You do a roll back or a wipe for an American audience for a game like PSU and I garauntee there'll only be 10 people left when the servers go back up. If the exploit isn't fixed when the servers go live again expect said company to die. No ifs and its or buts about it. To do this is to commit suicide, figuratively speaking.


This is pretty much true.

Where there are ways to do this with potential success(I.E., someone mentioned earlier about "reselling" the game, practically.) the ideas are too far fetched for them to be even close to guaranteed.

Even if I support a rollback, I highly doubt Sega would be able to recover from that self-inflicted blow.

Sega has too few options to fix anything at this point.

[DoubleJG]

A rollback simply won't happen here in the US. Besides, it's not THAT bad anyways. If you don't like playing with cheaters, blacklist is there for a reason people.

[C4]

tonight i saw a group of hacker on pso... all of them had over 1 million meseta on themself and were making fun by making me talk using the same old hack we pretty mutch all saw on psu, sega need to do something about this really fast before this game become a total joke...

[C4]

i said pso but meant psu... old habbits http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[AngelLight]

Bottom line, SEGA needs to dump INCA and Gameguard. It was a mistake to use the same program that hasn't served them well in the past hoping that it would magically work now. Get a new security protocol in, then rollback (not wipe) to prior to the first reported "physical effect" hack (not counting the "I make you say what I want cases"). That will solve pretty much all the problems.

Doing a wipe, even with a security fix or replacement will lose customers.
Doing a rollback without fixing or replacing security will lose customers.
Doing nothing will lose customers.

There's really only one thing they can do to keep people happy, but given that they are not doing so hot in the finance department anyways and that their last few games got panned hard (including this) and the fact that PSU has no where near the population as most of the PSO games did......what I expect to see is nothing but patching a broken system or do nothing but try to ban people when there's convincing evidence and that will either be too slow or not effective enough to resolve this.

Down with INCA, lets be rid of this eye sore right away.

[Shaidar]

The post above contains truth. Although gameguard isn't the only thing that fails.

I still think a rollback, and especially a wipe, might do more damage than good unless we're 100% certain the exploits are taken care off. Eventually the economy would recover by itself, without a rollback, if given enough time.

[etlitch]

Lol warring cheating clans. Man that was fcking awesome. I remeber spending lots of my time in ladder hall for D2. I made like stuff that made other peoples computer freeze while only disconnecting myself everytime I pk'd someone or got pk'd in those open b.net "duel99" games. Good times.

[Mystil]

On 2006-12-19 23:43, Shazbot wrote:

Anybody remember when the JP PSO EP.II came out on GC and a duping method was quickly found? Then Sega let the Jpeeps trade in their copy of the game for a fixed version and stuffed everybody's bank full of mag cells? I'd be down for that. Especially if it were mag cells in my bank.



Problem here though...

THEY WONT DO THAT FOR THE WESTERN VERSIONS.

[Wheatpenny]

If they do a wipe or a rollback I am quiting ,thats complete and utter bullshit.I pay 10 bucks a month these F**ckers better get on the stick and do something that doesen't involve screwing their players in the behind.

[PSObro]

its official psu is fucked,im done and im sure many others are as well.

[Ryoki]

On 2006-12-20 14:38, PSObro wrote:
its official psu is fucked,im done and im sure many others are as well.


Sir, are you done bitching?

[PSObro]

sir, is that a dick in your ass?

[Bleemo]

On 2006-12-20 14:43, Ryoki wrote:
Sir, are you done bitching?
People have every right to bitch.

I'm really tired of idiot responses like this.

If you can't think of anything decent to discuss other than "OMG LOL WHINE MORE," please don't post.

[Ryoki]

I just don't think he needs to use the f word to get his point across. Especially since we all know PSU is not completely ruined.

[CupOfCoffee]

Can anyone seriously picture Sonic Team doing any kind of large-scale wipe or rollback? Because I can't, and this lack of being able to realistically imagine any kind of action on their part comes from years of watching them ignore PSO. Well, now we've had a month or two of them ignoring PSU, and I don't understand where this continued faith in ST's willingness to fix anything is coming from. Is there any precedent of a "rust storm" or whatever in the 5+ years of their dealing with PSO, every version of which was quickly and devestatingly filled with cheats? Yes, they rolled back JP PSU a little while after it came out, but now? For North America? They'd have to go back so far it would be insane, and plus, the odds of them making a patch (heck, the odds of them even wanting to make a patch) are slim to none. A rollback wouldn't help, and they know it, and they aren't going to do anything drastic about the cheating.

Even those of you who never played PSO and are just finding out how much fun ST is must surely know somewhere in the backs of your minds that I'm right. You're all screaming in the face of a mannequin, hoping and hoping that it will suddenly spring to life after all these years and come to our aid. Well, folks, I'll take any man's money who wants to say it will. If you like PSU the way it is, with cheating, then that's great. Keep playing and be satisfied. If you're afraid of losing your levels in a rollback, don't be. It won't happen. If you still think the cheating will be fixed... well, whatever helps you sleep at night, pal.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CupOfCoffee on 2006-12-20 15:13 ]</font>

[Garroway]

It seems to me that if the hacking problems were resolved (and I do not believe they will be) the issues caused by hacking would heal over time without the need for a rollback or a wipe. I don't necesserily care if I have to start over, since I enjoy playing the game anyways. I also don't believe that a rollback or wipe will be as detrimental to game population as people say. I'm sure there will be a handful of tantrums resulting in the closure of some accounts but overall I think that many of those people would lost interest anyways and wander away inside of a couple of months.

[Ffuzzy-Logik]

On 2006-12-20 15:13, Garroway wrote:
It seems to me that if the hacking problems were resolved (and I do not believe they will be) the issues caused by hacking would heal over time without the need for a rollback or a wipe. I don't necesserily care if I have to start over, since I enjoy playing the game anyways. I also don't believe that a rollback or wipe will be as detrimental to game population as people say. I'm sure there will be a handful of tantrums resulting in the closure of some accounts but overall I think that many of those people would lost interest anyways and wander away inside of a couple of months.


I agree with the first part, but disagree with the second.

At this point, a rollback (and an effective would have to go back to about a week after release, honestly) would kill the community. A vast majority of the casual players would leave. Sure, it would only be a small amount of diehards that would leave, but when a few leave, the rest (who play the game to be with their other friends) would soon follow.

[Callous]

I have seen none of this despite playing for like 4-8 hours almost every day the past month. It happens on Universe 15, too?

[CelestialBlade]

A rollback won't fix anything in the first place. What kind of "magical patch" is going to put a stop to all them evil hackers? There isn't one, you just let them get bored of doing the same old hack over and over. They kinda lose, and the legit players aren't fucked over by a pointless rollback. Hooray!

[imfanboy]

I change my vote to match Typheros. As long as we ignore them, they can't do much. ^_^

[Sinue_v2]

There isn't one, you just let them get bored of doing the same old hack over and over.

Yeah... you guys haven't played PSO for long have you? They don't get bored.. and even if they do, when one cheater leaves - two more will spring up in their place.

It's going to take decisive and ballsy action on Sega's part. That's the only thing which can remedy the situation.

Ignore them and they'll leave you alone? Hah... tell that to all the legits who huddled together in spratic groups on abandoned servers - who had their locked games password bypassed and then NOL'd.

They want to cultivate the image that they are "inTranEt ThUgZ" - skinny little white suburbanite shitheads who have most likely never met a real "thug", except as maybe the victim of the encounter. Ever notice all the shitty rap music on their YouTube videos? Yeah...

Not to say that there's a whole hell of a lot you can do - aside from (if you're inclined) to learn the same methods they use to cheat and know it's limitations so that you can try to avoid being hit. I'd hate to advocate that - but it's always worked for me on PSO. In the mean time - report cheaters, and do whatever you feel you need to in order to try to get Sonic Team to get off their asses and do something. Shit or get off the pot, handing the franchise back over to a development team which CAN manage the project and is WILLING to provide security.

I'd vote WowWorks. Their online security competancy hasn't really been tested - but this point I'd rather take a gamble on a possiblility than to expect Sonic Team to suddely get talented. At least then Rieko and Tohru can turn the series into something great - like the original series and Skies of Arcadia.

[HiKeRI]

On 2006-12-20 14:38, PSObro wrote:
its official psu is fucked,im done and im sure many others are as well.


You and everyone that feels like you have either two choices, defend yourself or die. If you quit you'll die, and get ruined by some kids messing with your game, if you defend yourself, you and the others will reach sega and fix the problem somehow, maybe not now, but sooner or later, also if its only just duping and room/PM's messing, then just keep playing how it is, the game was not designed to be hardcore, but just fun, if you let idiots ruin your game it is a low-honor to yourself.

[Guitarsmasher]

listen, there's two main things contributing to the downfall of PSU, they are:

1. Hackers-IS THE LEAST MAJOR PROBLEM ON PSU ALL IN ALL. they bomb about 5-20% at the very most of the whole PSU community, i dont even think 20% is reasonable, seems like its 5-10% to me, but ill leave an extra 10% leeway since soo many ppl would piss and scream blood if i dont.

2. inflation: ppl, WTF!?!?! why the hell are you doing this?!?!? im not saying everyone s, or everyone thts reading this anyways. BUT, there are some people reading this RIGHT THIS FREAKIN SECOND, acknowledging tht they have kerselines, vestalines, types of photons, ebons in their shop for higher than NPCs.and by higher, i dont mean 1k higher, try like about 98 mill higher. and the ppl doing this are sometimes the ppl COMPLAINING about it!!! i know everyone is thinking "well youre writing about inflation, so you must be a contributor!" WRONG, i sell all of my mats for such an amazingly low price, all of my photons are 50 MESETA. why are ray-photons 3k?!?!? and all of the weapons in my shop are 8* weps, and priced between 18-23k, depending on their elemental %. dont get me wrong though, im POSITIVE there are lots of people tht are fair about all of their prices, reading this right now. im not calling you ppl the contributors, thats too specific. im calling a % of the psu community contributors to this. im saying there MAY be ppl tht do this, reading this reply right now. trust me, i know lots of you ppl arent doing things bad like this. and for the ppl tht ARE doing this, plz lower your prices.......drastically, im sure many ppl would ask of you the exact same thing. but if you decide not to, may i ask.......WHY THE HELL ARE YOU DOING THIS?!?! is it to make ppl like me, pissed at you about it?! well you know what?! YOU DID IT! CONGRATZ, MISSION COMPLETE, S RANK, NOW LOWER IT, YOU DID WHAT YOU WANTED.

IMO, number two is the very most damaging to psu, because if affects the whole community, even those who do it themselves, and causes ppl to spend more money, thus not be able to buy anything because we're so dam poor, thus, making the game 50X more boring than it really is, because we cant get what we want, THUS (again http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif) making us QUIT. hackers, pft, do your worst, i dont think ppl are going to stop playing because of missing room decors. THEY ARENT USED ON THE BATTLEFIELD PPL. no matter WHAT hackers hack from you, if we had a good community, with no one overpricing everything so much, wed be able to buy back w/e was taken from us with hardly any fret over the loss. (and thts, no matter WHAT IS TAKEN) think of it, if we saved money, youd be able to put it aside on your character incase you DO get hacked. think of it as your emergency money, like in real life.

now im not gunna do the happy thing and say "come on guyzzzzz!!!!!!! lets work together!!! as a team!!! yea!!!!" well ef that. im gunna say you are wasting your time is you inflate unpurposely. if you WANT to ruin the community of PSU, w/e go ahead, take a shot at it. because if youre tht determined to ruin something, there must be a good prize waiting for you when youre done, right? i dont see any prize, the only thing i see are ppl talking about the person tht ruined psu in a single thread. if thts a real prize to you, thats worth so much of your time just to end psu, go for it, because its obvious to me that you really want to see that one thread, then forget about it for the rest of your life (lives). me? i like to spend my time on things that will give me something when i finish it, something tht benefits my life forever.

im sure there will be ppl STILL pissing and screaming blood about this post, but rude comments mean nothing to one who doesnt even know you. those rude comments just reflect upon yourself. and for those tht agree with what ive said about inflation and hackers, thank you. im glad to see that its more than just me here http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif .

[CelestialBlade]

On 2006-12-20 17:51, Sinue_v2 wrote:

There isn't one, you just let them get bored of doing the same old hack over and over.

Yeah... you guys haven't played PSO for long have you? They don't get bored.. and even if they do, when one cheater leaves - two more will spring up in their place.

It's going to take decisive and ballsy action on Sega's part. That's the only thing which can remedy the situation.

Ignore them and they'll leave you alone? Hah... tell that to all the legits who huddled together in spratic groups on abandoned servers - who had their locked games password bypassed and then NOL'd.

They want to cultivate the image that they are "inTranEt ThUgZ" - skinny little white suburbanite shitheads who have most likely never met a real "thug", except as maybe the victim of the encounter. Ever notice all the shitty rap music on their YouTube videos? Yeah...

Not to say that there's a whole hell of a lot you can do - aside from (if you're inclined) to learn the same methods they use to cheat and know it's limitations so that you can try to avoid being hit. I'd hate to advocate that - but it's always worked for me on PSO. In the mean time - report cheaters, and do whatever you feel you need to in order to try to get Sonic Team to get off their asses and do something. Shit or get off the pot, handing the franchise back over to a development team which CAN manage the project and is WILLING to provide security.

I'd vote WowWorks. Their online security competancy hasn't really been tested - but this point I'd rather take a gamble on a possiblility than to expect Sonic Team to suddely get talented. At least then Rieko and Tohru can turn the series into something great - like the original series and Skies of Arcadia.



I did play PSO, you ignore the little brats and you find that they really don't bother you anymore. I just really don't see how hackers can be entirely stopped by coding fixes. They'll always find ways around it as long as they're motivated by all the attention they seem to get. Just what I've seen.

Reporting individual hackers is probably the best thing we, as players, can do right now. But preaching that to the world is only going to make it all worse. Hackers love that stuff.

[DarkSeph]

Something will happen........one way or the other........just a matter of time..........I guess you gotta adjust, I know it sounds simplistic and stupid but that's like ANY game that ends up being like this, you just have to adjust.... I had problems with Chromehounds (another SEGA game) where people could disconnect after a battle (if they lost) and it wouldn't count as a win for the winner but the disconnecter wouldn't lose money/status/rank either....I still think it's like that, as in, it never got fixed.....completely. So, maybe it wont get resolved......maybe people will have to switch to the 360 for some chance of normal gameplay (ie: no hacking, duping, etc)....but then again, it's not foolproof either....just a lot harder to hack! Don't really know what else to say.......I do feel for the people having trouble on the PS2/PC.....I am going to miss those screenshots of pretty weaps and rare monsters.......I'm not happy about all this either.......there is NO reason for it.......people can't seem to be decent even with something that isn't even real......I mean, what is the real gain of doing all this cheating? Well, I suppose if you took into account all that ebay meseta selling, there is definately a gain.....but how low can you get?.........

Sorry.........just really upset too.......I worked hard for what I got and what I got is a level 46 char with NO A rank weapons to my name yet, a half a$$ armor, and I had to reset my pm and start over cuz she was dirty and I needed better snyth percents.....so it upsets me that other people are getting screwed by cheaters!

[Guitarsmasher]

On 2006-12-20 19:04, Typheros wrote:

On 2006-12-20 17:51, Sinue_v2 wrote:

There isn't one, you just let them get bored of doing the same old hack over and over.

Yeah... you guys haven't played PSO for long have you? They don't get bored.. and even if they do, when one cheater leaves - two more will spring up in their place.

It's going to take decisive and ballsy action on Sega's part. That's the only thing which can remedy the situation.

Ignore them and they'll leave you alone? Hah... tell that to all the legits who huddled together in spratic groups on abandoned servers - who had their locked games password bypassed and then NOL'd.

They want to cultivate the image that they are "inTranEt ThUgZ" - skinny little white suburbanite shitheads who have most likely never met a real "thug", except as maybe the victim of the encounter. Ever notice all the shitty rap music on their YouTube videos? Yeah...

Not to say that there's a whole hell of a lot you can do - aside from (if you're inclined) to learn the same methods they use to cheat and know it's limitations so that you can try to avoid being hit. I'd hate to advocate that - but it's always worked for me on PSO. In the mean time - report cheaters, and do whatever you feel you need to in order to try to get Sonic Team to get off their asses and do something. Shit or get off the pot, handing the franchise back over to a development team which CAN manage the project and is WILLING to provide security.

I'd vote WowWorks. Their online security competancy hasn't really been tested - but this point I'd rather take a gamble on a possiblility than to expect Sonic Team to suddely get talented. At least then Rieko and Tohru can turn the series into something great - like the original series and Skies of Arcadia.



I did play PSO, you ignore the little brats and you find that they really don't bother you anymore. I just really don't see how hackers can be entirely stopped by coding fixes. They'll always find ways around it as long as they're motivated by all the attention they seem to get. Just what I've seen.

Reporting individual hackers is probably the best thing we, as players, can do right now. But preaching that to the world is only going to make it all worse. Hackers love that stuff.



hackers can never be stopped. no matter what program, im 99.9% sure its hackable. hackers are called hackers for a reason, they try to hack the unhackable, and they succeed because nothing is unhackable. so every other online game thts semi-big or is big, has ppl on it talking or complaining about hackers, its just a normal thing. if anyone even read tht other comment i said before, theyd realize the real problem. no im not just saying tht so i could save money, but so tht i can be "SAVIER OF PSU"......pft, only in my dreams right? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[ShinMaruku]

On 2006-12-20 17:51, Sinue_v2 wrote:

There isn't one, you just let them get bored of doing the same old hack over and over.

Yeah... you guys haven't played PSO for long have you? They don't get bored.. and even if they do, when one cheater leaves - two more will spring up in their place.

It's going to take decisive and ballsy action on Sega's part. That's the only thing which can remedy the situation.

Ignore them and they'll leave you alone? Hah... tell that to all the legits who huddled together in spratic groups on abandoned servers - who had their locked games password bypassed and then NOL'd.

They want to cultivate the image that they are "inTranEt ThUgZ" - skinny little white suburbanite shitheads who have most likely never met a real "thug", except as maybe the victim of the encounter. Ever notice all the shitty rap music on their YouTube videos? Yeah...

Not to say that there's a whole hell of a lot you can do - aside from (if you're inclined) to learn the same methods they use to cheat and know it's limitations so that you can try to avoid being hit. I'd hate to advocate that - but it's always worked for me on PSO. In the mean time - report cheaters, and do whatever you feel you need to in order to try to get Sonic Team to get off their asses and do something. Shit or get off the pot, handing the franchise back over to a development team which CAN manage the project and is WILLING to provide security.

I'd vote WowWorks. Their online security competancy hasn't really been tested - but this point I'd rather take a gamble on a possiblility than to expect Sonic Team to suddely get talented. At least then Rieko and Tohru can turn the series into something great - like the original series and Skies of Arcadia.


I agree, or give that shit to Tominobu Itagaki. XP
Or I say keep the ST devs studio and throw out the guys in there and put new guys.

[Sinue_v2]

hackers can never be stopped. no matter what program, im 99.9% sure its hackable. hackers are called hackers for a reason, they try to hack the unhackable, and they succeed because nothing is unhackable.

Yeah... I agree. The problem is that PSU doesn't suffer from a mass attack by hackers. PSU has maybe 2-3 people with some real talent - a few who maybe have the basics of making these cheats down - and a shitton of posers and newbs who simply take other people's methods, claim it as their own, and then spread them en-masses to other clueless cheaters and griefers. If Sonic Team were competant enough to handle their online security - they could combat the few who have real talent. Of course there would be work-arounds, but it would be kept to a bare minimum and rather underground. Most people wouldn't even notice.

For example - NuGz and Broom went and tried to "hax" Final Fantasy XI. IIRC, they had about two working dupe cheats. But you know what? Yeah they got banned pretty fucking fast. And to this day - FFXI doesn't have any major cheats and exploits in the manner of PSO or even PSU. Yes, people do cheat on that game. You don't really hear about it because SE takes care of the fucking problems as they arise. These are the same ditshits, mind you, who let Gil-Farmers get so out of hand that FFXI's economy was Fubared on a level PSU couldn't hope to attain. They went YEARS before actually doing anything about the problem.

You can't stop hacking. You can manage it. But as I said - these guys aren't hackers.

[Shade-]

The problem is if they dont stop the hacks/exploits before a rollback like that, it gives the hackers even more of an advantage, since no legit players have 0 and hackers have max everything, and insetead, it will probably drive more legit players to hack thier old crap back, a downward spiral.

[Tystys]

Meh, I just joined the PSU servers so I had no idea the hacking problem was this bad. To tell you the truth, I think I only have seen 2-3 hackers so far...mainly because when I checked his status he had about a good 1000000000 some odd meseta(didn't know the exact number but he filled up all the digits). Now, I thought this was just going to be normal for higher levels, but then I checked most other high levels equipments, and most of them only have like 20-30 K on them.

On Topic:
Meh, since we're talking about SEGA, I wouldn't doubt it. This is the first time I've heard the term "Rust Storm" take place, but I think I get the jist of it.

I don't think SEGA would delete all of our equipment as much as they would just do an entire roll back.

[AeraLure]

Well, remember too that Broomop and Nugz and Co. are active in PSU (and PSO formerly) because they cannot effectively be elsewhere. Thanks to SEGA's amazing game protection, a piece of third party software and some fiddling with values makes everyone a "hacker." They are cheaters. Period.

[HiKeRI]

They should just fix the problem, then do a server wipeout, that way everyone starts clean again, while they wont have hacked money laying around. (Even though it could be hacked again, they should do that when they are 100% sure that they got it fixed).