Does anyone actually like the Synth system?

[Kanore]

I started playing PSO again in a specific server (on Blue Burst), and it was actually quite fun for once, seeing useful weapons and armors drop, and the ability to buy weapons that I could get anywhere there was a possibility to get a weapon - no need to create weapons or no need to create weapons just to get a prefix on then.

I think the Synth system killed this game for alot of players, especially from the very beginning.

This game isn't PSO, but I haven't seen any MMO -OR- ORPG that upright required you to create almost every USEFUL weapon or armor or end up being gimped.

[MayLee]

I kinda do. You get to make your own wewapons and with elemental atributes on it is nice.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-21 08:15, MayLee wrote:
I kinda do. You get to make your own wewapons and with elemental atributes on it is nice.



Like I said, you didn't need to craft items in PSO or have a chance to fail them at all if you wanted a prefix.

And in WoW? It just took like a minute or so to craft rare shit, and even though you did have a chance to fail, you still had the items on you.

[Akaimizu]

I like it as well, plus it's not exactly the idea of being gimped. It's more like putting attention on finding good materials and such. One thing or another, the whole system is still driven based on what people can find out there. Even in the original PSO, your best weapons came from drops and such, not necessarily on anything bought in the shops. What you got in the shops were *capable* weapons, just not the best of the best.

It's not that much different in PSU, it's just another method of doing something that ultimately has the same final outcome.

I guess I don't like the term "gimped". It's brought too many bad connoctations from games like FFXI. In PSU, like PSO, many easier weapons are still quite capable it's just that you should use weapons as close to your capabilities as possible, and when you can afford it. If that weapons just happened to be from a drop or a shop, so be it.

Not that one should run around with C class weapons when B is easily available to them, or anything; just that a Phantasy Star game shouldn't have to be universally about have and have nots, and people who have these powerful items (or being of specific classes) being the only ones to get parties and stuff.

Player crafting, has been pretty successful before, even with the chance of failure when the solution is to keep getting materials and trying again. Asheron's Call had something similar. As long as the PSU community stays with a similar mentality of PSO (because it works), the game isn't ruined. What will ruin the game is the community going way overboard with the gimped vs. not gimped theory. Something which isn't as pronounced or needing be worried about, in a PS game, as it was in FFXI.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-21 08:29 ]</font>

[MayLee]

I guess I just like the idea of being my own Blacksmith.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-21 08:19, Akaimizu wrote:
I like it as well, plus it's not exactly the idea of being gimped. It's more like putting attention on finding good materials and such. One thing or another, the whole system is still driven based on what people can find out there. Even in the original PSO, your best weapons came from drops and such, not necessarily on anything bought in the shops. What you got in the shops were *capable* weapons, just not the best of the best.

It's not that much different in PSU, it's just another method of doing something that ultimately has the same final outcome.



You never had a high chance to fail getting weapons, you just had a high chance of either getting it your first few shots, or spending countless hours waiting for something to drop.

But, of course, you were still getting EXP and feeding your MAG in that process.

[JAFO22000]

I just miss the ALL CAPS YELLOW LETTERING of PSO rares....made you feel special.

Synthing is like a job. Need to buy/find this board then need to buy/find the mats to make it, then I have a 27% chance of success...then once I succeed (1 out of 3 times!), I have to take my chances grinding it, and if it breaks going from 3 to 4 grinds I have to start the process all over again.

At least mats drop on a pretty regular basis, and you can upgrade them easily. I just wish more "good" boards would drop. I haven't really found any good weapon board drops. I mean, you can get a tomoirod on GoF, but it hardly drops. These should drop more often..Although I did find 3 Hikauri boards there...

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-21 08:23, JAFO22000 wrote:


Synthing is like a job.



Exactly. Why should you go out of your way to do this job when you have your CL and your job level to be leveling? Why do you have to leave your group to go into your room just to check it, making it a big problem for most groups, making them wait and possibly splitting them?

It's kind of annoying how the synth system works out in the long run. It'd even be better if you could check on Synths in field rather than having to run back and forth.

[Realmz]

the synth system is more or less the basis of the entire economy for PSU.

WoW is a huegly capitalist economy, it's very very easy to simply find the low priced stuff and resell it thanks to the auction house. No one in WoW makes their own stuff, they make the stuff to sell (with the exception of some items that obvjously won't turn a profit. Those rightious orbs your using to make those blue gloves? one of them will net you more then the item you make from them)

it's a lot harder to do that with PSU, it's more trader based, more lower level, less middle man. you make the items for you to use or to sell as a slightly cheeper price then the NPCs (of if you're a dick you can sell them for three times the NPC price)

also this isn't WoW, the synth system is also in to try and keep down the omfg super rares so that they stay just that, rare. It'll be an accomplishment to have a 35% ten star axe, not just running MC fifty times to get your eye of sulfuras for your hammer of glowey death (and there is no chance of failure in WoW, unless you spell it rouge)

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-21 08:26, Realmz wrote:
the synth system is more or less the basis of the entire economy for PSU.

WoW is a huegly capitalist economy, it's very very easy to simply find the low priced stuff and resell it thanks to the auction house. No one in WoW makes their own stuff, they make the stuff to sell (with the exception of some items that obvjously won't turn a profit. Those rightious orbs your using to make those blue gloves? one of them will net you more then the item you make from them)

also this isn't WoW, the synth system is also in to try and keep down the omfg super rares so that they stay just that, rare. It'll be an accomplishment to have a 35% ten star axe, not just running MC fifty times to get your eye of sulfuras for your hammer of glowey death (and there is no chance of failure in WoW, unless you spell it rouge)



I compared it to only WoW because it's one of the easiest to relate to. I'm sure that games like EQ and FFXI didn't require you to create EVERYTHING that was good, you still got drops in all of those games, albeit the fact that they were hard to get, especially the more people you had. And you were still playing the more 'mobile' part of the game, right? You were still going straight ahead, whereas PSU requires you to wait about 12 hours, stop your group, and head up into your room.

And I know alot of Korean MMOs are similar since I've tried them as well.

[MayLee]

On 2006-12-21 08:26, Kanore wrote:

On 2006-12-21 08:23, JAFO22000 wrote:


Synthing is like a job.



Exactly. Why should you go out of your way to do this job when you have your CL and your job level to be leveling? Why do you have to leave your group to go into your room just to check it, making it a big problem for most groups, making them wait and possibly splitting them?

It's kind of annoying how the synth system works out in the long run. It'd even be better if you could check on Synths in field rather than having to run back and forth.

I guess that's what keeps you playing. You have to go out of your way to find meterials and synth them into neat things.

Like a mission or a quest.

[Kesena1Tsum1]

Well, The best advice i can give you is.... Quit and go play your PSO and leave PSU to the players who enjoy the new system. Kthxbai

[Realmz]

On 2006-12-21 08:29, Kanore wrote:
I compared it to only WoW because it's one of the easiest to relate to. I'm sure that games like EQ and FFXI didn't require you to create EVERYTHING that was good, you still got drops in all of those games, albeit the fact that they were hard to get, especially the more people you had. And you were still playing the more 'mobile' part of the game, right? You were still going straight ahead, whereas PSU requires you to wait about 12 hours, stop your group, and head up into your room.

And I know alot of Korean MMOs are similar since I've tried them as well.


the entire time your gathering those items ain't you playing the more 'mobile' part of the game? is the minute you spend putting stuff in storage, bring up the synth and starting it that much of a hassle for you? the choice to get up and leave your group the moment its done is yours it's not like it's going to disappear keep playing and pick it up the next time you just come on.

[Rubesahl]

I like it ^_^ I really like the fact that I can make a lot of melee weapons with the attribute I want. This is mainly in the beginning though http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif Plus melee weapons are easier since raising the PM for striking is a piece of cake http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif Still I find it really fun and a change of pace from what PSO was.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-21 08:35, Kesena1Tsum1 wrote:
Well, The best advice i can give you is.... Quit and go play your PSO and leave PSU to the players who enjoy the new system. Kthxbai



You mean the people that never actually played PSO? And by the way, PSU PC/PS2 is dying not only because of the Synth system, but because of the hacks. I'm just pointing out one aspect of how it's dying.

I heard the 360 version is still bustling, so it's kind hard to tell that what could've been a larger group of players has already quit due to this horrid system.

[Candor]

One thing i liked about WoW were the quests that had you gathering certain items to make a weapon as the reward. I dunno why but those stood out for me. I like making my own stuff, like self reliance, makes you feel good when everything you're using came from your own hard work. I was hoping Synthing would be like that, but the chance to fail just makes it so frustrating. To spend hours looking for a rare board and rare mats then fail; is just too much. It would be a great system without that chance to fail.

[Realmz]

On 2006-12-21 08:38, Kanore wrote:

On 2006-12-21 08:35, Kesena1Tsum1 wrote:
Well, The best advice i can give you is.... Quit and go play your PSO and leave PSU to the players who enjoy the new system. Kthxbai



You mean the people that never actually played PSO? And by the way, PSU PC/PS2 is dying not only because of the Synth system, but because of the hacks. I'm just pointing out one aspect of how it's dying.

I heard the 360 version is still bustling, so it's kind hard to tell that what could've been a larger group of players has already quit due to this horrid system.



you just love those flames don't you?

anyway i loved PSO, but i hated seeing everything with the exact same stuff as me, all the time, no matter who i was with, rather annoying. If other people had my same 12 star launcher, then i'd feel better knowing that they probably failed the synth a bunch of times too.

it's all about the effort, if you don't wanna put it in then don't.

[Kanore]

Yes. The chance to fail, and the high chance to fail despite even using a Pure PM in whatever you're crafting is one of the key reasons as to why the Synth system itself fails. People give the excuse that 'Oh, it's so that the economy isn't ruined when people make too much of these items easily'.

Well first off, you have to find the board, which is rare in itself, (this is considering rare items), then you have to find at least 4 materials, and in the case of a rare item, these materials may be as rare as the board, and then you have to put what little you have of them together, wait 12 painful hours hoping that that 20% will pull through for you.

And economy not ruined? I hope the people that gave those reasons weren't part of the PC/PS2 crowd.

[JAFO22000]

Also, we still don't know how the S rank weapons are going to be, right? Could they be drops also?? And I have found pre made weapons and armor (some of it A rank!) in runs, so they didn't TOTALLY take that aspect out.

I think synthing is more exciting for Hunters, as they can dictate what element to put on a weapon and have a chance of getting a "better" weapon by synthing with a higher percent.

For rangers and forces, a synth is a synth whether we buy from the shop or synth it ourselves, it ends up being the exact same thing.

[MayLee]

There will always be cheaters/hackers in a game. You just have to hope for the best, maybe Sega is working on it.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-21 08:43, MayLee wrote:
There will always be cheaters/hackers in a game. You just have to hope for the best, maybe Sega is working on it.



Given Sega's recent history, no.

And given the recent amount of transfers and quits, comparing both systems' populations to each other, no.

Given the amount of proven hacks that have destroyed PC/PS2's economy compared to 360's, no.

[Candor]

On 2006-12-21 08:41, Kanore wrote:
Yes. The chance to fail, and the high chance to fail despite even using a Pure PM in whatever you're crafting is one of the key reasons as to why the Synth system itself fails. People give the excuse that 'Oh, it's so that the economy isn't ruined when people make too much of these items easily'.

Well first off, you have to find the board, which is rare in itself, (this is considering rare items), then you have to find at least 4 materials, and in the case of a rare item, these materials may be as rare as the board, and then you have to put what little you have of them together, wait 12 painful hours hoping that that 20% will pull through for you.

And economy not ruined? I hope the people that gave those reasons weren't part of the PC/PS2 crowd.

exactly, I've done the work, where's my reward? sort of thing

[Realmz]

On 2006-12-21 08:41, Kanore wrote:

And economy not ruined? I hope the people that gave those reasons weren't part of the PC/PS2 crowd.



flame flame flame.

it's obvious that your opinion is that you hate the synth system, we're not going to change that, and frankly you're not going to be changing the people that like it.

SAGE

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-21 08:45, Realmz wrote:

On 2006-12-21 08:41, Kanore wrote:

And economy not ruined? I hope the people that gave those reasons weren't part of the PC/PS2 crowd.



flame flame flame.

it's obvious that your opinion is that you hate the synth system, we're not going to change that, and frankly you're not going to be changing the people that like it.

SAGE



I think I've said this before. The synth system is, aside from the hacking, one of the key reasons that PC/PS2 is dying a miserable death.

[Realmz]

On 2006-12-21 08:46, Kanore wrote:
I think I've said this before. The synth system is, aside from the hacking, one of the key reasons that PC/PS2 is dying a miserable death.


to me its a great way to keep rare items rare http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

SAGE



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Realmz on 2006-12-21 08:47 ]</font>

[rena-ko]

PSO never was about weaponry. it was about skill. its the same here too. you get "gimped" shop weaponry if you dont want to gamble - or you take the high risk to synth it yourself. thats for people that have too much cash at hand and could compensate a failed synth.

and thats what the whole thing is about! a gamble that keeps you interested in the game at high level, trying over and over if you got the weapon / item of your dreams.

those people that get pissed off by this system should really change their point of view:
what you invest into a synth is lost at first. you may or may not get an outcome of it.
and its obvious that you arent guaranteed a success - so its like in real life: take a lottery, but dont start to whine when you arent winning anything.

[Akaimizu]

It's all in the chance to obtain items class. The main reason for the idea of failing possibilities is because this system allows you to actually have the said item even earlier than you'd normally get it, in another game. As long as you have the board and materials, you can craft it. You don't have to raise a crafting level up to some level, or have your PM be super high level to do it. On the other hand, if you took extra time to up the stats before you craft something, you have a much better chance at it.

In all experience, I never really felt this game made it any harder to do what the other games have done. They always had other quid pro quos that made obtaining stuff just as hard, if not harder.

[Kanore]

On 2006-12-21 08:48, rena-ko wrote:
PSO never was about weaponry. it was about skill. its the same here too. you get "gimped" shop weaponry if you dont want to gamble - or you take the high risk to synth it yourself. thats for people that have too much cash at hand and could compensate a failed synth.

and thats what the whole thing is about! a gamble that keeps you interested in the game at high level, trying over and over if you got the weapon / item of your dreams.

those people that get pissed off by this system should really change their point of view:
what you invest into a synth is lost at first. you may or may not get an outcome of it.
and its obvious that you arent guaranteed a success - so its like in real life: take a lottery, but dont start to whine when you arent winning anything.



Then why not waste those hours gambling or playing the lottery in real life rather than wasting them for hours on a video game just for a little item that'll fail, rather than having it more easily drop for you?

[Candor]

but for the lottery you pay what, 1$ for a chance at millions. the risk doesn't match the reward in synthing, THAT's the problem.

[Pandatron]

Personally this system when i first played it was more comparable to Ragnarok Online (RO originates from Korea)when i played it for a good bit back in the day. RO system involved hunting down a specific creature hundreads of times and once you get the item you needed you wanted to a specific card for it so you had to hunt for the card next to put into the piece of equipment. However before you could put the card in you wanted the piece of that had a high upgrade or 'grind' in this case. As a result you had to either purchase a certain metal or hunt for it (yep more item hunting) till you had at least 5 of the material you needed. Then you went to the npc blacksmith (or pc whitesmith/mastersmith...though pc only could do weaponary not armor). And you use the metals you found on the slotted gear that was dropped so you could put the card in it once it hits a reasons +x variable. Personally i found this fun cause i'm a grind type person that and drops in RO (going by lets say the offical) were about .01-.5 for the decent stuff.

Crafting in this game is pretty much the same just factor in added wait time, access to materials is fairly easy, and the simliar factor for both of these anything that happens during grinding process is 100% lost. Personally i like this concept makes a it a bit more real, since it's not always 100% sucess rate (aka WoW). As already mention this system prevents from uber zomg rares at the same time though the players have to have a crazy high amount of patience to get use to it and adapt to the system.

There's my 2 cents.

[Reiichi]

Only ridiculously hard to get items are hard to make.

The reality is that a B weapon with a high elemental % will compare to an A or even S weapon in terms of damge. You could also always go green and buy at the NPC, but that's kinda =p

Going gimp matters less in PSU than say FFXI, where if you had gimp gear you were promptly kicked before the first battle. Just pull out your elemental B weapon on an S mission or your +4 5* rifles and noone really cares.

Synth system is fine and the chance to fail isn't that bad at all unless you are synthing either ranged weapons or wands/rods. You don't save much in those areas compared to the NPC price. No 50% beauty you can make either.

[Akaimizu]

The risk is higher when you put less into it. Sure we can change it to a only get stuff from drops, and people put a super high price on it. It doesn't make it any better. More likely, you have a greater chance of making that thing even more unobtainable.

It's one thing to deal with, but for the same amount of time invested, unless you've been having better luck than I have in every MMO; do you even have a chance of seeing stuff as good? And even then, there's still the idea that if you want it to be a monetary aquisition thing, you can still buy the weapon.

A lot of people, out there, with pretty insane PMs aren't really having problems making great weapons. They have them, so it can't be as bad as some are making it out to be. The price for them, when they are charging fairly, is not bad at all. That only means that the risk/reward thing has to be paying off.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Akaimizu on 2006-12-21 08:58 ]</font>

[rena-ko]

On 2006-12-21 08:51, Kanore wrote:
Then why not waste those hours gambling or playing the lottery in real life rather than wasting them for hours on a video game just for a little item that'll fail, rather than having it more easily drop for you?


thats up to you - whatever you have more fun with, really.

[Sychosis]

On 2006-12-21 08:50, Akaimizu wrote:
It's all in the chance to obtain items class. The main reason for the idea of failing possibilities is because this system allows you to actually have the said item even earlier than you'd normally get it, in another game. As long as you have the board and materials, you can craft it. You don't have to raise a crafting level up to some level, or have your PM be super high level to do it. On the other hand, if you took extra time to up the stats before you craft something, you have a much better chance at it.

In all experience, I never really felt this game made it any harder to do what the other games have done. They always had other quid pro quos that made obtaining stuff just as hard, if not harder.



Agreed 100%

Instead of hunting X for 100 hours with a 1/78,000 drop chance, you hunt A, B, and C, all with 1/3,000 drop chances, then synth them with a 1/5 chance of success for 100 hours. It all evens out in the end.

It's just that in PSU you come really close, but miss in the end when you fail the synth vs PSO where you have no idea when that item is going to drop. PSU builds you up, then drops the ball right on your foot and it hurts a little more coming so close, yet being so far away.

[Candor]

The way synthing is set i assume they were trying to making it harder to obtain these weapons; i agree there. But all they suceeded in doing is making it more frustrating, not more difficult.

[rena-ko]

whether or not its frustrating is definitely due to your point of view.

actually its the same - failing a synth, getting PDed by a mil lily on PSO, both has to do with lucking out on your chances. *shrugs*

[_Deliverance_]

@ Kanore

- The system is fine, and is better than ffxi and WoW. If it's too much for you, then play Dynasty Warriors. It's more your type of game.

- The economy is fine. Prices are more stable and balanced now.

- 7* and above should be hard to make. They are RARE. Need a dictionary?

The only thing that bothers me, is the lack of interest in PC/PS2 NA servers. I think they should just do a merger across all platforms. There aren't enough people to keep the economy flowing for an extended period of time.

[HiKeRI]

On 2006-12-21 08:51, Kanore wrote:

On 2006-12-21 08:48, rena-ko wrote:
PSO never was about weaponry. it was about skill. its the same here too. you get "gimped" shop weaponry if you dont want to gamble - or you take the high risk to synth it yourself. thats for people that have too much cash at hand and could compensate a failed synth.

and thats what the whole thing is about! a gamble that keeps you interested in the game at high level, trying over and over if you got the weapon / item of your dreams.

those people that get pissed off by this system should really change their point of view:
what you invest into a synth is lost at first. you may or may not get an outcome of it.
and its obvious that you arent guaranteed a success - so its like in real life: take a lottery, but dont start to whine when you arent winning anything.



Then why not waste those hours gambling or playing the lottery in real life rather than wasting them for hours on a video game just for a little item that'll fail, rather than having it more easily drop for you?


You guys just want everything to be easy to you, PSU is so far just to easy, atleast you should work for something, are you that lazy that you would just not mind to wait for something thats prob. very usefull on the game for a few months of trying to synth it? No wonder mostly in here hate FFXI, don't like to work on stuffs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (Game supose to be fun, not work, yes its true but working is what maintains a real game, if you don't beleive that then check FFXI out, there are still millions of players that don't whine of how the game runs)

[Kard]

On 2006-12-21 09:30, HiKeRI wrote:
You guys just want everything to be easy to you, PSU is so far just to easy, atleast you should work for something, are you that lazy that you would just not mind to wait for something thats prob. very usefull on the game for a few months of trying to synth it? No wonder mostly in here hate FFXI, don't like to work on stuffs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif (Game supose to be fun, not work, yes its true but working is what maintains a real game, if you don't beleive that then check FFXI out, there are still millions of players that don't whine of how the game runs)

I would normally be one to defend FFXI in these situations, but realise that it all comes down to point of view. You won't get many takers for any other RPG in a PSU forum, and that goes for any "alien" game in any other game's community.

Many people did not appreciate the time it took to complete the majority of FFXI's objectives. Long story short, MM/ORPGs (really, RPGs in general,) are designed with time being a major factor in the kind of power a player receives. Time/effort in usually equals a proportionate amount of reward.

Quite obviously FFXI's little equasion is skewed to the point where more time has to be put in to benefit than in other games - some are fulfilled by this, others aren't. Chances are, if you haven't 4-6 hours a day to dedicate to FFXI, you probably aren't going to come out with much good to say about it.

The way that relates to this thread is with the simple notion of personal preference not necessarily having anything to do with being lazy, or people who "don't like to work on stuffs".

I am not a big fan of the synthing system, as there is no alternative for one who wishes to obtain rare equipment. My idea of a good treasure hunt in good ol' traditional RPG fashion, is to get out there and perform those dreaded runs until something tangible appears that is ready for practical use. Well, those dreaded runs still exist in PSU, but finding boards rather than finished products doesn't scream "excitement" at me. This system also makes items much less exclusive, meaning pretty much anyone can have everything. There isn't much that is "special" to be had here.

Just because this is my preference on this particular matter does not mean that playing this game can't be a fun experience for me. So please, may the typical "if you don't like it, don't play it" response can be left at the door if you're coming out to play.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kard on 2006-12-21 10:09 ]</font>

[HiKeRI]

To tell you the truth, i have met many people that had about 3-4 or 5 hrs a day and still played FFXI just fine, and acomplished everything, they were even better equiped then me, and they still had enough fun from what i saw, they worked, had a family and thats about it.

Now for the synth system yes, thats something i call people don't like it, because they are lazy to acomplish something in a month or more depending on your luck not just because they didnt had the time to do it, because if they play the game everyday, then they do have time to do it, if you failed now, try it tomorrow, if you fail tomorrow try again, and again till you get it.

[BahnKnakyu]

What I don't like about the system is the interface. There are gobs and gobs of menus to wade through, and I get this strange feeling I shouldn't have to go through so many just to synth a single item. Had the PC version have native mouse support, this interface would be decent, but right now it feels like going through a bad Customer Service "press 0 for A" system.

[Realmz]

one of the really big differences in PSU synh system and the finding system of other games is that for items that can only be found in a dungeon (ie. boss loot) you need an extended amount of time to get to the boss and kill it. at the begining my guild would spend seven hours doing MC. by the end we could get it down to four hours (they havn't killed Razergore yet)

synthing just requires getting stuff, most metals, woods and such can be gotten from any mission on a planet you don't really need to venture into some dark deep dungeon. the Synth system helps level the playing feild, now people who can't spend seven hours playing can still get one one or two hours at a time and still get the same stuff (it will, however take longer) as those you spend ungodly amounts of time playing.

the ddownside for this evening is that the rare stuff becomes rarer in that you need X amount of items, and if you fail they are gone for good

[mananas]

I think synthing is cool at lower levels but when you need to synth weapons appropriate for your level Sega fails. If your PM is fully developed and there's less than a 30% chance at making something then something needs to be adjusted, either by leveling PMs or Sega manually adjusting the success rate. When I actually am able to find a rare board or part which makes me want to purchase the corresponding part or board then why should it blow up in my face 70% of the time? I personally will probably never synth anything... the cost of raising a PM doesn't yield anything in the end except a different looking item gobbler. Is it more frustrating to see rare items time after time and have them fail or to not see any rares but have them succeed 100% of the time? There needs to be some kind of balance with PSO that Sonic Team has neglected. If people lobbied Sonic Team I'm sure they would change it... we are their source of $$$ and if we aren't happy that means they are going to lose that $$$ unless something happens.

[HiKeRI]

At this point where they are not doing a thing for there NA PSU servers i don't think they even care if they lose the $$$ from you all.

[Akaimizu]

For me, it basically comes down to time. If you don't have that many hours to grind every night, you have a better time getting what you need with PSU. That, in my case, was a case also available with PSO. I know people like to talk about FFXI and think people bash it and they defend it. It's a question about life compatibility. It's game demands are generally not compatible with my life and my schedule. That's the plain truth, in practice. If my time was spread differently, then it would be a different case altogether.

There's too many different contexts here to simply compare what the end game aspect of getting an item to another end game aspect of getting an item. So I tend to think the comparison is kind of unfair, particularly because I've put in good time into a lot of different systems and I have seen myself not having a tough time with it, in this one. In fact, a generally better time getting stuff than I did with them. Now maybe my luck has been horrible across all those games, but if you see a consistant increase of stuff, given your limited time to play; of course you're going go for it. It's not a question of laziness, but on what you're willing to spend and whether the reward system requires more out of your life than you're able to spend.

[Itchee]

*yawn* Such complaining.

We are all perfectly aware of how irritating it is to repeatedly fail synths you should be able to reliably complete...and...I do agree that perhaps a maxed out PM could benefit from a few success rate tweaks...but if everyone were able to pump out weapon after weapon w/o failing.....then we would have 8 bazillion people carrying the same collection of maxed out stuff. I slam my controller down just as hard as eveyone else when my synths go awry.....but that itself makes you actually give a crap when you do make something good.

[Phalynx]

On 2006-12-21 09:20, _Deliverance_ wrote:
The only thing that bothers me, is the lack of interest in PC/PS2 NA servers. I think they should just do a merger across all platforms. There aren't enough people to keep the economy flowing for an extended period of time.



The PC and PS2 can keep there problems away from the 360. Thats a terrible idea.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phalynx on 2006-12-21 11:02 ]</font>

[HiKeRI]

On 2006-12-21 11:01, Phalynx wrote:

On 2006-12-21 09:20, _Deliverance_ wrote:
The only thing that bothers me, is the lack of interest in PC/PS2 NA servers. I think they should just do a merger across all platforms. There aren't enough people to keep the economy flowing for an extended period of time.



The PC and PS2 can keep there problems away from the 360. Thats a terrible idea.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phalynx on 2006-12-21 11:02 ]</font>

I back this up :3

[SolomonGrundy]

um, I like it a LOT better than the old system of picking a sec ID which was in line with the character class you selected

I had an Oran ranger.

Also NONE of the sec IDs had everything you needed for a complete character high level character (skyly lacked armor and God/battle, for example - two hunter staples).

[vfloresjr24]

I like everybody else like the whole Idea of making the weapons yourself. To me it gives your weapons or items a special feeling that no has the same as yours or like old PSO days its legit.

[Ryoki]

On 2006-12-21 11:01, Phalynx wrote:

On 2006-12-21 09:20, _Deliverance_ wrote:
The only thing that bothers me, is the lack of interest in PC/PS2 NA servers. I think they should just do a merger across all platforms. There aren't enough people to keep the economy flowing for an extended period of time.



The PC and PS2 can keep there problems away from the 360. Thats a terrible idea.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phalynx on 2006-12-21 11:02 ]</font>

Thanks for the freakin help, fellow PSOW member!
Jackass... You could at least show concern for your fellow board members, but instead you go "I shouldn't care, I am on 360!"

[Phalynx]

On 2006-12-21 13:03, Ryoki wrote:

On 2006-12-21 11:01, Phalynx wrote:

On 2006-12-21 09:20, _Deliverance_ wrote:
The only thing that bothers me, is the lack of interest in PC/PS2 NA servers. I think they should just do a merger across all platforms. There aren't enough people to keep the economy flowing for an extended period of time.



The PC and PS2 can keep there problems away from the 360. Thats a terrible idea.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Phalynx on 2006-12-21 11:02 ]</font>

Thanks for the freakin help, fellow PSOW member!
Jackass... You could at least show concern for your fellow board members, but instead you go "I shouldn't care, I am on 360!"



Im not trying to help anyone, I could care less about the PC/PS2 problems. Im entitled to my opinion, which is that the problems should stay where they are. Why spread it to another console? And I never uttered the words, "I shouldn't care, I am on 360!" And why should I feel concern for people who got screwed over in a damn game? Boo-fucking-hoo. Sucks for those people. If sega isn't going to do anything about it, then quit your bitching and either deal with it, play on the 360, or don't play at all. The day I care about people I dont know on a forum I seldom post on, will be a sad day indeed. Next time, don't call someone a jackass for stating an opinion, which is more of a simple fact which I beleive,more hope, is how the other 360 players feel.

[ycavan]

I like the synth system and I like the breakages. *shrugs*

Is it demoralizing to NOT be able to make 1 out of 5 Busterlines? sure! 'n yet, I synthed an Ageha-Senba this morning. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

This goes hand-in-hand w/ the grinding. I LIKE the grinding to get better items. It makes sense to me. I've broken my share of items, but I tend to grind "backup" items until they match my "normal" item... ie, I have 2 level 7 batons and feel like grinding another baton, I synth the baton and grind it up to 7, if possible. If not, then I haven't lost anything, really.

That's how I got my 2 level 7's... constant grinding of "backup" items until they become the "normal" items.

[OPM]

Xbox360 is the way to go. And I agree, seperate servers is actually a godsend.

[DarkSeph]

....I hate the snyth system...are you kidding me!

3 Failed Bulbs...1 Failed Tengoh Bow....several other minor failed weaps/items......it's @#$# @#$%!

If I went to the effort to find the damn ingrediants to make something, it should freaking work to make it! End of Story SEGA, you losers!

and I don't even have a right to complain, think of those people who will attempt crea doubles someday.....**Cringes**


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkSeph on 2006-12-21 13:33 ]</font>

[Itchee]

On 2006-12-21 13:32, DarkSeph wrote:
If I went to the effort to find the damn ingrediants to make something, it should freaking work to make it! End of Story SEGA, you losers!
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: DarkSeph on 2006-12-21 13:33 ]</font>


Again....if synths were 100%, then every knucklehead would have exact same stuff. The fact that items can be destroyed during the synthing process gives them value....whether thats personal or monetary...thats up to the end user.

[Para]

I think the synthesis system is pretty good in some respects.
It gives certain items more value. Unfortunately that value is being destroyed by hackers and overpriced by idiots who just want $$.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Para on 2006-12-21 14:01 ]</font>

[Itchee]

On 2006-12-21 14:00, Para wrote:
I think the synthesis system is pretty good in some respects.
It gives certain items more value. Unfortunately that value is being destroyed by hackers and overpriced by idiots who just want $$.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Para on 2006-12-21 14:01 ]</font>


True....but that issue is for another thread.

[uhawww]

I love the synthing system...
but they shouldn't have tried to relegate it's importance by totally killing the drop system.
Hunting for rares was one of the quintessential elements of PSO.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: uhawww on 2006-12-21 14:08 ]</font>

[Vorpal]

I like synthing.

I LOATHE grinding.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vorpal on 2006-12-21 14:13 ]</font>

[Fleur-de-Lis]

Many interesting points. I for one like the system, including the chance to fail. My opinions are that:

a) Rare items should be rare. It adds value to them as items and to the game in general. Many posts addressed this.

b) In the event of a failure, it's not a problem to try again. The chance of your procuring the ingredients is probably much greater than trying to find rares in PSO.

c) Rares are not the end-all, be-all of equipment, now. Is possible to pack more power into "lesser" items, with luck, so rares are more an aspect of your personal style than a necessity for higher-level gains.

One improvement I would have liked to see is the naming of items, such as "Itchee's Scratchee", or at least the ability to trademark a standard item with the creator's or PM's name. At least then they would make gifted rares unique as well as cementing the bonds between comrades.

All things considered, for me, it could have been tweaked for the better, but the system's positives outweigh the negatives.

[AlphaMinotaux]

personally i hate the synthing system. I never took up a trade or skill in any MMO i ever played, never liked it...

[Turambar]

I personally love the synth. And note, this is comming from a guy that just failed 7 8* synths in a row over a 72 hour period about 2 days ago. Of course, my PM also decided to be sane for once and approved of 3 synths in a row today. If synth always worked, what would be the point? The need for failure is going to be there so as to make the synth system have any effect. As for all your hard work hunting for mats, etc? Unless its a crea type item or rare kubara item, the NPC has everything you need in stock. I like looking at my pallete, see my +10 Riflic and my +10 Raihoc, and be able to say to myself, "Yeah, I made that =)" It gives a sense of accomplishment that merely picking something up in a run dosn't quite offer.

Lastly, it offers customization. You can get exactly what you want. You want a fire ele sword? You can make it fire ele instead of hoping the drop suits your needs. Same can be said for armor.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Turambar on 2006-12-21 14:47 ]</font>

[OPM]

Agreed with the armor part. Currently trying to synth dark armor for some upcoming LLS runs.

[physic]

you dont like synth, but yeah you can still find weapons in the game, and on higher difficulties they have %s, they have flame halenatas light gudda grettas dark misaki. Your just not hunting in those places, or they arent available yet. a 7 star armor drops from a boss box on A rank demon. Several units are boss box. Yea you can find stuff without using your pm. Or buy it from another player shop. Honestly making a PM is way to easy that it should guarantee synths, you can make a ranger pm for like 120k, thats not even teh cost of one 8 star. Really its a simple idea, to give you a % of yur reward faster. instead of a delsaber arm dropping 1/100 runs, the board drops 1/20 the arm 1/20 chances are in 30 runs you got both, then you try to synth at 33% congratulations its teh same thing, only they have more steps.

Essentially you hate the peception of failing youd rather work just as hard just not to see that fail. But really its not that dif, personally id rather a chance of winning tehn never even seeing the item.

[Tenzntwentiez]

rofl relax, everything is being dupped nowadays. Pretty soon PSU will be one big hack fest. If you still are ignorant to the facts go visit the shop "Hyphey".

[OPM]

On 2006-12-21 15:06, Tenzntwentiez wrote:
rofl relax, everything is being dupped nowadays. Pretty soon PSU will be one big hack fest. If you still are ignorant to the facts go visit the shop "Hyphey".



On Xbox360?

[PJ]

Ignoring whole topic

The synth system is AMAZING. It's the same thing you're doing in PSO, hunting for rares, only more fun, hunting your materials, than putting your own elements on. Currently, I've been working on getting Soldonium for my Wissecle. I've done 4 runs of Neudaiz relics, and have only gotten 1 Soldonium, and it's been really fun.

Sure, sometimes there are low chances for synth success, then when it doesn't work you get pissed that it didn't, but if it DOES work, it's just that much more amazing.

[SonicTMP]

Synth system sucks. You are punished so bady its ridiclous. Your pretty much required to either take a ton of time remaking characters or spending tons of money to make a pure PM. Cause lets face it a hybrid isn't going to cut it. And even then You can end up failing 70%+ synths regurarly to the point that you spend abuot 1.5-2x times the amount of what the equipment costed fromt he NPC.

WoW crafting system while simple works good. SWG crafting system was good, let you really play with your crafted item's stats and then give the ability to mass produce it. FFXI is a big grind for a crafting system but you can make some amazing stuff onces your higher, plus the fact that evenif you fail you don't always lose your mats.

Really the synth system in psu sucks. your too dependant on it. Hell even the uber rares require being synthed. If the boss acutally dropped the rare armor/weapon right off that bat it be so much better. Instead you have to grind for the board, grind for the mats and then get abuot a 50% falure chance and have to do it all over again.

Just plain sucks.

[ycavan]

I prefer playing games where failure is expected. THAT's what gives items worth. I don't like knowing that just because I procurred all the items necessary, I'll get what I want. THAT's what made me not want to play games like that 'cause it IS a grind, then. I dunno how to put it... it's like... KNOWING that there's a chance to fail makes the item that much more meaningful to have.

There are items that I synthed for kicks and giggles just to make them 'n then there are items that I pray to the PSU gods that the synth won't fail. 'n it's an awesome feeling when the synth goes right. 'n it's also kinda depressing when the synth goes wrong... ( so I just feed whatever to my PM lol ) But I still have no problems finding materials to synth with. Will some of them be expensive? sure! but if you really want decent equipment, you gotta work for it.

I don't even think of any of my runs as material runs... I go out there to find a boss to beat. I just happen to find synthesis materials that allow me to synth things. *shrugs* I still use the same weapons that I've been using 'n grinding them however much I can 'n that's the cool thing. Forces YOU to play the game and learn how to effectively use your weapons/skills.

[happy_cricket]

I dont like synthing, but I make up for it by buying weps from players that do.

[Jasam]

I'n not so sure its the synth system thats the problem... but more the inablity to find Elemental rares(or even normal weapons) in normal runs....

All dropped weapons come with a set element (normaly green) and a set %
Other then hunting down units, there is no real item hunting in this game, just synthing... which is HORRABLY inefficent.
I would like to you know, convert 50 par wood to ash at a time, not 5....... and wait for the damn laggy menu to load between each step ¬.¬

[ycavan]

I do remember getting a 50% fire sword, breaker?, from De Ragaan in a run earlier... dunno if that's rare or not.

What did you mean by elemental rares?

[VanHalen]

i like it the fact you can customize a weapon to your likings is awesome

HUmar: *walks into G.R.M. and only sees fire brands but he wants a lightning*
HUcast: *points out synthesis shop*
HUmar: *takes materials home makes a lightning brand he's so happy now*

[CelestialBlade]

I like the synth system. Gives me something to do outside of battle, but I guess I'm biased, being an engineering student and all. Designing stuff is what I do http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

Before it got nerfed, player crafting was what put you ahead of the game in Everquest II. This really isn't any different, and I think you should be commended for bothering to level your PM, gather the materials, and having some luck rather than just going to a store.

[icewyrm]

Can't say I've ever enjoyed crafting/smithing/synthing/whatever in any game so far. Too much fiddling with inventory. Always worrying about picking things up, running out of space, have this part or that skill, just let me kill the things and play through the story please :/

It feels like if I wanna make decent cash (and thus a good supply of new equipment) I should be synthing and selling, but I can't say I like the idea of forking out large quantities of grinded meseta to make something which will probably fail or which I may not even be able to find a buyer for. So I sit here with my measly 300k meseta in my wallet and all cheapo b grade equipment on me, and wonder what I should be doing with this little capital I have.

[ycavan]

I would say to use it to buy more weapons/equipment that help you in your game. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[DTrunks16]

I basically agree with Icewyrm; I think the best place for synthing is as something optional.. thats actually what killed PSU for me and my friend really. Its just not appealing having to search for materials to make "decent" weapons, not even rares O_o. It wouldn't be so bad either if it didn't take an hour and a half to make armor and such http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[dizzygiant2k2]

its a bitch but you have the glory of knowing that "your" weapon can not be imitated -.-

[Soukosa]

People who hate the system seem to be the ones that don't want to put much effort into things. They want to have everything they want as easily as they can. If the game was like that what would be the point? At least with this it doesn't take days on end to find a rarer weapon only to find out it has sucky properties to it. With the synth system you find the boards for them alot more often and thus have more chances to get what you want on the weapon. Seems like a greater thing to me but of course, some people just don't want to have to bother putting much effort into things.

As for you XBox players, who go around bragging how leet their system is because it's devoid of supposed hacks, bugs, etc (that room glitch isn't a hack BTW), just need to hush up. A true fan of a game wouldn't be bothered by a small group of people capable of hacking meseta. If anything, I'd rather put up with that the assholish holier than thou sort of attitudes you tend to sport. Granted you'll probably end up quitting anyways since someone with such an attitude wouldn't likely stay with a game that lacked an easy mode for items anyways http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif

[icewyrm]

Well... the crappy b grade stuff I have is serving me well enough in S-rank missions.

I've considered at least getting some better armor, but I'm waiting for the NPCs to get better armor in stock, so the player shops (hopefully) drop some of their rediculous prices.

[DoubleJG]

Eh, it's decent.

When it comes to items like monomates and scape dolls, that's just idiotic.

Synthing high level armors and weapons is actually nice, yet the % of success at such low numbers make me not like it as much as the ol' hunt.

[mogshaz]

On 2006-12-21 17:00, Sounomi wrote:
People who hate the system seem to be the ones that don't want to put much effort into things. They want to have everything they want as easily as they can. If the game was like that what would be the point? At least with this it doesn't take days on end to find a rarer weapon only to find out it has sucky properties to it. With the synth system you find the boards for them alot more often and thus have more chances to get what you want on the weapon. Seems like a greater thing to me but of course, some people just don't want to have to bother putting much effort into things.

As for you XBox players, who go around bragging how leet their system is because it's devoid of supposed hacks, bugs, etc (that room glitch isn't a hack BTW), just need to hush up. A true fan of a game wouldn't be bothered by a small group of people capable of hacking meseta. If anything, I'd rather put up with that the assholish holier than thou sort of attitudes you tend to sport. Granted you'll probably end up quitting anyways since someone with such an attitude wouldn't likely stay with a game that lacked an easy mode for items anyways http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif



Yes, how dare you raise objections to a fairly difficult crafting system being in a game most Fanboys consider pickup and play. Or atleast thats what they will tell you if you complain about a lack of content. I have an idea sounomi, get over yourself. Just because people find fault with the crafting system in a game you happen to like doesn't mean they are somehow "noobs"

[physic]

its academic is the point, the only weapons different on synth are mellee items, and armor, but armor you better off in stores generally excpet for rare unreleased. Really i think yall must have been playing a different pso than me, because i had to invest much more time into getting above average weapons than you do in psu. If you dont like the synth system, you can always buy form player shops, which are actually usually lower than npc though they should cost more.
the truth is there really werent that many good drops in pso, your memories must be twisted. How many none dupers had good drops without large amounts of time invested its way easier to buy or synth a double saber than to get one was in pso, till of course you got to srank mission. Its a matter of choice of course, but its really not that different, in fact so far it seems easier than it used to be to get rares.

[Scopes]

More than the synth (I admit, I haven't tried it yet, but it sounds like I'm going to be making some rants soon), I think the grinding sounds like a pain. You FINALLY manage to make that one item you really wanted... and you break it.

As said by many a teen, "It's the burn that just keeps on burning."

[Ogni-XR21]

I don't like the synthing system BUT I am a Fortecher. The main problem for me is that I can't solo like a hunter or ranger which makes it hard to obtain some of the stuff I would need to synth. I have yet to find ANY board worth synthing.

This is for now, let's look ahead - because people seem to forget that we are still in "Very Hard mode" of PSO, we just started playing Forest in Ultimate so I dare not complain yet. Once I am strong enough to solo some missions that actually drop some good boards I might reconsider...

[SonicTMP]

On 2006-12-21 16:58, dizzygiant2k2 wrote:
its a bitch but you have the glory of knowing that "your" weapon can not be imitated -.-



Right so that other person who is same class, using the same weapon with the same element weapon hasn't imitated "your" weapon at all?

There really isn't anything unique about the weapons. heck, almost half the the weapnos are made by 1 shop only. Meaning you don't even get a graphic choice is some cases. Can't really worry about being imatated when everyone is already the same.

[Ryno]

umm.. i dont know.. because then you have to do this and that like searching...lol..

so i just search from the peoples shops and buy it. and there are some good prices.