Sega, I beg of you, make Giresta useful! :(

[PALRAPPYS]

I'm getting it... I don't really care what you think, but I still want to have it, becuase I want to be a full support force. Thing is, it doesn't do anything about party incapitations. If it did, then heck, that'd own. Let's say, if Sega changed it, then this could be the thing:

Lv1-10
100 score points returned

Lv11-20
200 score points returned

Lv21-30
300 score points returned (making it 0 pts lost, allowing an S rank still)

Man, that'd own. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif I'd so get my friend to go a mission and keep having him die and reviving him. Yeaaah. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

One last thing, would that make Giresta broken? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

[Sychosis]

I'm getting Giresta regardless, but yes, returning some (not all) of the lost score would be great.

[PALRAPPYS]

Hm. Yes I agree... returning all of the score points wouldn't necessarily be fair. That way it'd almost be impossible to not get an S rank. I should've thought of that before. XD Thanks for implying your little post that somehow made me think right. XD


Edit: cry0, that's what you have to pay to get Giresta.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PALRAPPYS on 2006-12-28 11:58 ]</font>

[Cry0]

would indeed be great, what's that about the pa fragments?

[MayLee]

Once I get Gresta, bye bye Moons.

[Akaimizu]

You know it.

[Kamica]

On 2006-12-28 11:59, MayLee wrote:
Once I get Gresta, bye bye Moons.



I would hold onto those moons

[DBZWWE]

If I ever have some spare frags ill pick it up.

[MayLee]

On 2006-12-28 12:14, Kamica wrote:

On 2006-12-28 11:59, MayLee wrote:
Once I get Gresta, bye bye Moons.



I would hold onto those moons

Yes, to be tastey treats for my Partner Machine. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[LunarChaos]

On 2006-12-28 12:14, Kamica wrote:

On 2006-12-28 11:59, MayLee wrote:
Once I get Gresta, bye bye Moons.



I would hold onto those moons


That's no moon... it's a space station.

[Spellbinder]

On 2006-12-28 12:19, MayLee wrote:

On 2006-12-28 12:14, Kamica wrote:

On 2006-12-28 11:59, MayLee wrote:
Once I get Gresta, bye bye Moons.



I would hold onto those moons

Yes, to be tastey treats for my Partner Machine. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



To use on teammates instead of the 160 PP it takes to cast http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Schubalts]

If no points are returned from Giresta use, why would anybody even use it? Moons drop like candy! But, I could see Giresta being used if nobody in the group has ANY moons.

Why does it cost 90 fragments for a glorified moon with a -mate attached?

[JAFO22000]

Moon + Resta > Giresta. Word.

[DizzyDi]

Doesn't giresta also give a sorta regen effect?
Like the Me/Recovery.

[Akaimizu]

You do have a point, there. Moons and Moon boards drop way too frequently. They literally leap into your inventory like the super *snicker* rare *snicker* Star 7 *snicker* Kubara Woods. The technique would be hardly used because you'd have to wait until nobody has moons, and generally people don't die that much.

[Schubalts]

Off-topic: DIZZY CHANGED TEH SIG!

[Gen2000]

And since the general mentality of parties is "IF YOU DIE YOU BETTER HAVE SCAPES SUCKA!" makes Moon/MoonX pretty much worthless besides PM Food I don't see how Giresta would be a wise use of PA Fragments. Better off wasting it on some uber offensive spell (Dambarta, Megid or Grants<-if it's available?). You can support by killing things quickly or at least stunning them so everyone can kill.

And from what I hear of the start-up time, seems as though using Giresta would put you at a great risk unless you happen to nicely die in a corner or something especially taking into account the FOTecher's wonderful HP and Def. Seems someone would be better off popping off a Moon in a run-by instead.

[JAFO22000]

On 2006-12-28 12:39, DizzyDi wrote:
Doesn't giresta also give a sorta regen effect?
Like the Me/Recovery.



Who needs regeneration when Resta is available???

[Tra]

moons > giresta cast time

[Schubalts]

On 2006-12-28 12:43, Gen2000 wrote:
And since the general mentality of parties is "IF YOU DIE YOU BETTER HAVE SCAPES SUCKA!" makes Moon/MoonX pretty much worthless besides PM Food



A lot of people don't join parties that kick people the second they die. Players who think like that take the game too seriously. Also, at 47 I haven't been in a party where somebody was kicked just because they died.

[Kinako78]

Well, that's not very nice. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[Garnet_Moon]

I won't be getting Giresta. I don't think any FT I know will either.

[Gojin]

if you die and need giresta you suck have scapes

[DonRoyale]

This whole PA fragment system is fucked up...I mean, 99 for Megid? Yeah, good job, ST http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_disapprove.gif

[Pentence]

Honeslty if they make it so you can keep the lost points for a death but still lose PA frags on missions giresta wouldnt be brokenin that reguard.It is stupid to put giresta in ESPECIALY if it bought with PA frags and DOES NOT work likea scape.Scapes are hard to come by for that reason,girestas EVEN HARDER shouldnt a force be rewarded for such an acheivement?

[Gojin]

scapes are only 1k in player shops get out and start hustlin to get your money for scapes or stay out of my parties

[JAFO22000]

On 2006-12-28 14:07, Gojin wrote:
scapes are only 1k in player shops get out and start hustlin to get your money for scapes or stay out of my parties



I'll choose option B....

[Pentence]

On 2006-12-28 14:07, Gojin wrote:
scapes are only 1k in player shops get out and start hustlin to get your money for scapes or stay out of my parties


Ok i have TONS of scapes i get them by the droves so thats not the problem.The thing i am blabering about is how giresta is a pointless tech to have or save frags for if it does not allow you to save S rank at least.I mean essintialy the player who has scapes is rewarded by not looseing points and being well preped so wouldnt giresta work in the same reguard?

honestly this is like game design 101 when two items or rules that have similar circumstances come about revert to the rule used on the first item to keep all play fair and smooth

in this case scapes are like giresta rare by design(im NOT includeing player shops just the stuff ST had control over when developing this game)also they raise the dead as their PRIMEARY function were it not for the rare part it would be more akin to moons

[Hustler_One]

On 2006-12-28 14:14, JAFO22000 wrote:

On 2006-12-28 14:07, Gojin wrote:
scapes are only 1k in player shops get out and start hustlin to get your money for scapes or stay out of my parties



I'll choose option B....

[PMB960]

I will probably get it but not until way later. If I don't then I get to keep my Bow bullet which is probably a better idea.

[Kinako78]

I haven't played online yet, so my opinion may be biased, but I actually liked Giresta. True, it's annoying that it takes so much PP, but that's what Photon Charges are for. And Photon Charges cost the same as Moons, I believe.

[MayLee]

Like 350, I think.

[Kinako78]

Oh, my mistake. I got confused. You're right, MayLee.

And Moons are 500 each, but that's still less then Photon Charges.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kinako78 on 2006-12-28 14:39 ]</font>

[Lyrise]

Personally I think GiResta is fine the way it is. You go into a place knowing full well you're going to die a lot, so Giresta has just become insurance that you don't run out of atomizers, such as fighting DF on S level.

Regarding those changes, reducing the penalty is poiintless. In the end, you'll still end up with grade drops, and if you go with the 300 point recovery, all this will promote is parties that have at least 2 or more Forces, and that Forces will be the ones yelled at if they die, since you know, you can't giresta yourself...especially if you are dead.

[JAFO22000]

Yes, but....moons drop all the time! I'm full on moons in my inventory, PM, shop and shared storage box. I maybe use 2-3 moons a week....and I easily find 10x's that amount/week.

How can this be considered a useful spell?? I can see no positives to it, other than if you do get it, people will be in awe because they will never see anyone cast that spell..

[Kinako78]

On 2006-12-28 14:54, Lyrise wrote:
Personally I think GiResta is fine the way it is. You go into a place knowing full well you're going to die a lot, so Giresta has just become insurance that you don't run out of atomizers, such as fighting DF on S level.


That's a good point. I guess, like everything else, there's pros and cons. Each person will just have to decide if the pros outweigh the cons.

[Kirip-san]

On 2006-12-28 14:27, Hustler_One wrote:

On 2006-12-28 14:14, JAFO22000 wrote:

On 2006-12-28 14:07, Gojin wrote:
scapes are only 1k in player shops get out and start hustlin to get your money for scapes or stay out of my parties



I'll choose option B....

[Marik]

I won't be buying it, it's a waste to me. The 36 PA limit means I won't be getting all the spells. Gonna need some Longbow and Card PAs aswell. I think i'll have 4 versions of each of the 6 elements for a total of 24 and then 12 bullet PAs.

[Garnet_Moon]

If someone dies and I somehow run out of my 20 reviving items, then the next person will use his 20. If he runs out, the next one, and so on and so fourth.

120 free resurrections in one party, before you have to buy new ones.

Yeah. Waste my precious PA slots for a spell we already have in droves? I'll pass. Unless of course, it helps the overall score. If it does, then you better believe i'll get it. Not because I want to, but because everyone will expect me to have it.

[Kinako78]

Longbows rock. Both Kinako and Rinia have one and I love them. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[MayLee]

Moons drop like hotcakes on a Friday night.

I think when Gresta comes out Moons will be Treats for my dear PM. But I think I'll carry five around on me just incase.

[Kinako78]

What do Moons raise on your PM? What stat(s)?

[Garnet_Moon]

Moon Atomoziers give anout 10 Strike and 3 Tech, and the X version is like 12 Strike and 4 Tech. I think.

[Kinako78]

Not bad.

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-12-28 20:44, Kinako78 wrote:
Not bad.


Not good either because then you have a problem with negating the +TECH if you want a pure strike mag. I just didn't mess with it and let mine become a 80str/20tec. :

[Mattardo]

IF Giresta doesn't restore lost mission points : it's too little, too late. The first time I played as a force I bought reverser when I had enough money: I figured "Hey, in PSO it was one of the most valuable skills in the game!" Imagine my chagrin and shame when I tried to cast it (after reassuring people "yeh it's cool, I have reverser"). Not good, not good. After that bad news, the value of a force was lessened. Sure there's resta. Yep. Resta. No buffs, no giresta, but there's resta. And to top it all off: you're penalized if you die, and this has resulted in parties that are quite cold and suspicious. There's a reason I never played Final Fantasy Online (too many deaths and bam, down you go). Including giresta does nothing at this point in the game UNLESS it restores lost mission points. That's unfair and overpowering, but sheesh, so is bombing in raks from deaths. 5 deaths? Ok, lose Srank. 10 deaths, maybe you should lose the next one. But from one death? Why not take a poll about the mode ranking system? I'd rather see that change.

[Jife_Jifremok]

I don't see a use for this tech at all. Scape Dolls remove the need for moons (let alone a tech that sucks up PA Fragments) since they serve as insurance in case of Bad Luck, Bullshit, Mistimed Carelessness (seasoned veterans should especially watch out for this one), or Just Plain Having a Bad Day. And unless you're too low-level and poor to get some scapes, it's just poor manners not to bring a scape and then die. (and I'll confess to having done this before...call me overserious, but it's just plain wrong to do this, and you better damn well be grateful to anyone who won't boot you for it!!)

[Kinako78]

sheesh...I think I will not be playing as a Force if I ever get online...

[MayLee]

*Sigh* There goes another lost Force.

It's not bad being a Force, really.

[Kinako78]

Well, it'll be awhile before I can play online, so I'll probably change my mind before then. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Besides, my time playing as Kinako showed me that being a force is pretty fun. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kinako78 on 2006-12-28 21:52 ]</font>

[Jife_Jifremok]

Hey, being a good Force nets you great degree of respect...problems only arise when people actually EXPECT you to be a healbot. Phht...just heal at your own discretion, I say. I have nothing against a force who keeps on throwing out nukes while I stand next to her waiting for a heal...it's my own fault if I need to be healed. (oh yeah, and I like watching Fortetechers burn the shit outta the enemy, I'm not a Force myself)

[Careful]

If Giresta is a way stronger version then resta (like offline) Then i will get it for my guntecher. If it does give back mission points it will go to my fortetecher.

[Kinako78]

On 2006-12-28 22:00, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
Hey, being a good Force nets you great degree of respect...problems only arise when people actually EXPECT you to be a healbot. Phht...just heal at your own discretion, I say. I have nothing against a force who keeps on throwing out nukes while I stand next to her waiting for a heal...it's my own fault if I need to be healed. (oh yeah, and I like watching Fortetechers burn the shit outta the enemy, I'm not a Force myself)



Heh, well, like I said, it'll be awhile before I can play online, so we'll see what I decide to do. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Merumeru]

XD haha just looks like something to make your PA list look pretty, please buy megid instead X3

[Tekknight]

On a semi-related note. Who else thinks it would be a good idea for a conversion boards that convert (5 Moon Atomizers --> 1 Moon Atomizer X) (5 Moon Atomizer X --> 1 Scape Doll)?

[Kinako78]

What if I bought both? http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

[Kinako78]

That might be good. Maybe in the future, that'll be invented.

[Gen2000]

On 2006-12-28 12:55, Schubalts wrote:

On 2006-12-28 12:43, Gen2000 wrote:
And since the general mentality of parties is "IF YOU DIE YOU BETTER HAVE SCAPES SUCKA!" makes Moon/MoonX pretty much worthless besides PM Food



A lot of people don't join parties that kick people the second they die. Players who think like that take the game too seriously. Also, at 47 I haven't been in a party where somebody was kicked just because they died.





Because you're expected to have a Scape Doll on you. It's like an unwritten common courtesy rule nowadays.
Dying = ok
Dying w/o Scape Doll = AW HELL NAW!!!1

A quick look at most mission lists and in most comments people have some variation of "If you die, better have scapes" or something similar. Even if they don't, go into a mission and die w/o a scape if you don't get booted the atompshere of said mission 9 times out of 10 becomes more sour. I never said everyone autokicks on death but dying w/o a doll? Yeah the mood of the party gets alittle bit more tense than it was 3 seconds ago. I see it all the time.

Unless in the comments people say something along the lines "I don't care about deaths" or you're lucky and find leaders who don't mind true deaths then having a Scape Doll is pretty much a required piece of "equipment" in a majority of parties.

Giresta gaining back lost points would be the only way to even make it Tech to think about it. I agree with it so far the only reason in getting it is to impress others who haven't seen it before. They probably won't be too impress in watching you die trying to cast it when someone could have easily just popped a Moon + Resta/self Dimate/Trimate/Star combo or Moon X on a run by and be done with it.

[icewyrm]

Haha, man... for 90 frags I'd rather have ryuker than giresta, theres about as much chance of ST adding it as there is an improvement of giresta.

[Tahldon]

On 2006-12-28 21:48, MayLee wrote:
*Sigh* There goes another lost Force.

It's not bad being a Force, really.



I wholeheartedly agree Maylee, It's not bad at all.

I tried the sword and gun thing.. it just doesn't work for me.

I'm debating with myself right now though whether or not I should get Giresta or not. I recently made a Rod/Wand scheme as to how I'm going to order my spells. For some odd reason.. there's only 3 debuff spells, which really throws me off.

I added Giresta to the list but best believe it'll be the -last- spell I get. I dont' see a need for it. I mean.. the objective is NOT to die..so yeah.

Oh and Maylee you might wanna keep your Moons and Moon Xs. :3 People like to pick those up and if you have the max quantity they skip you so you can still get good rares :3... However.. the boards are another story.. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Kinako78]

Guns don't work for me, either. I like longbows, though. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

[Nayte]

I kind of agree with making giresta recover lost misison points but it would only be worth it if it completley nullified the death since dying is pretty much a sin in most games. However, it's only going to make all parties want a tech user, which in turn will produce a lot of crappy and/or stuck up forces. FFXI all over again http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif

[Garnet_Moon]

On 2006-12-29 09:28, Nayte wrote:
I kind of agree with making giresta recover lost misison points but it would only be worth it if it completley nullified the death since dying is pretty much a sin in most games. However, it's only going to make all parties want a tech user, which in turn will produce a lot of crappy and/or stuck up forces. FFXI all over again http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_frown.gif


Don't worry about that. I'm a DD mage, not a support or healbot. I do do the other duties when I need to, but when someone asks me to use X spell instead of XX spell, I just leave. If Giresta negates the penalty for dying, sure i'll get it. However I expect the other -techers to do the same. I don't feel like being a Rezbot all by myself. ~_~

[ljkkjlcm9]

let's think about this... to get giresta you need 90 PA frags. Assuming you got the 90 frags, you can S rank S rank missions quite handily at that point. A lot of people won't get giresta til they get the others. At that point, a lot of people will be level 10 in their class. BASICALLY, the only point of rank would be for meseta. Don't you people see how pointless an argument this is?

THE JACKEL

[Tahldon]

On 2006-12-29 09:43, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:
let's think about this... to get giresta you need 90 PA frags. Assuming you got the 90 frags, you can S rank S rank missions quite handily at that point. A lot of people won't get giresta til they get the others. At that point, a lot of people will be level 10 in their class. BASICALLY, the only point of rank would be for meseta. Don't you people see how pointless an argument this is?

THE JACKEL



o.o

The Jackel makes the gears in my mind start turning.

This is unusual...

[Garnet_Moon]

I'll stick to my Moon Atomizers, Jackel. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

[ljkkjlcm9]

that's fine with me, I'm just saying when you get the spell, most people won't need PA frags anymore, or S ranks really. It'll just be grinding missions for rare items, prolly lots of deaths, especially the new SS missions that are coming soon in JP and eventually in NA.

THE JACKEL

[Garnet_Moon]

It takes all of 1-2 minutes to go buy new ones. With as many forces leaving to recharge their casting items at the end of the block because they spam spells without aiming and run dry on on PP, I don't think anyone will complain when I go buy more Moon Atomizers. And if they do? /boot

I hope Giresta does something amazing to make me (or anyone) want to use a PA slot for it.

[Mattardo]

With the lag in this game plus the horrible aiming for techs, i think forces can be forgiven if they spam spells "without aiming". Giresta returning mission points would be great for those of us who like using their PM in battle: they're generally not boot-happy in a game that can be extremely difficult and in the end, still just a game. But, like jackal said, I find that most of the things that take time in this game result in something that is well, yesterdays news. My PM can make this weapon now without failing? That's nice, I have better ones now. I now have the power to go through certain missions and slaughter the monsters? That's nice, the exp just isn't enough anymore. It's a horrible cycle. Shiver.

[PALRAPPYS]

Hm, well ya know, Sega recently announced the SS rank missions. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif Heck, now there you're not gonna be going for an S, so yeah! There's a nice way to revive your team members without having to go back for moons (assuming you're a Force staying back who tries to hit enemies from afar)

[Ogni-XR21]

I spent my last 2 days playing a lot of LL S, and giresta would have come in handy. In missions where you die a lot anyway, it can save you a bit of money.

Regarding scape dolls, I only make games with a comment "no scapes required" and usually get good groups to play with. It's more relaxing to play, knowing that the others don't start complaining IF someone dies.

[roygbiv]

One thing that I think might make giresta useful is using it for the heal over time buff as a way of preloading things in case of a big attack... that the force won't be able to run over to heal in time.

That is about all I can think of... they are never going to make it lessen the point loss... and moon atomizers are just as good for raising people.

[Kirip-san]

On 2006-12-30 17:12, Ogni-XR21 wrote:
I spent my last 2 days playing a lot of LL S, and giresta would have come in handy. In missions where you die a lot anyway, it can save you a bit of money.

Regarding scape dolls, I only make games with a comment "no scapes required" and usually get good groups to play with. It's more relaxing to play, knowing that the others don't start complaining IF someone dies.


Oh, why didn't I think of that~nyo?
http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif