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ProfessorZ
Dec 28, 2006, 05:36 PM
Just did alot of Mizuraki S with 4 figunners including myself, a fortecher and fortegunner. We were averaging 19-23 minutes per run. Teh pwnage

Rizen
Dec 28, 2006, 05:54 PM
Figunners do it from behind?

JAFO22000
Dec 28, 2006, 06:06 PM
On 2006-12-28 14:36, ProfessorZ wrote:
Just did alot of Mizuraki S with 4 figunners including myself, a fortecher and fortegunner. We were averaging 19-23 minutes per run. Teh pwnage



...only because you had a fortetecher. lol

Ether
Dec 28, 2006, 06:10 PM
Fortetecher in Mizuraki = reverser duty, and not much else

10ofDiamonds
Dec 28, 2006, 06:12 PM
I think it has more to do with the weapons. If you all used the same weapon that's kinda useless. But lets say you have one with a laser cannon doing heavy damage, one with a double saber spaming his Strike, one with a double pistol to hold people in place for the laser, and one spaming bullets to give status effects. Now that would be a team to be wreckened with.

JAFO22000
Dec 28, 2006, 06:13 PM
On 2006-12-28 15:10, Ether wrote:
Fortetecher in Mizuraki = reverser duty, and not much else



You're not serious, are you?? I solo it on S in about 40 minutes.

Rizen
Dec 28, 2006, 06:15 PM
I was just doing MD S on my Protranser, very interesting. We only have 4 people and few of us were less than 50. I was doing very good amount of damage, but I just used bows. I ended up getting a Cometra dropping for me. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

ProfessorZ
Dec 28, 2006, 06:24 PM
The fortegunner did all the status effects with his grenade launcher and assasins. Us figunners spammed with our twin and double sabers, knuckles and single daggers

Shiro_Ryuu
Dec 28, 2006, 06:26 PM
no, Fortetechers are useful in resta and nuking, their nukes hurt too. but yeah, Fighgunners are useful too, they and fortefighters are important in killing the monsters fast so that they won't kill anyone else.

-Dainslef-
Dec 28, 2006, 06:26 PM
It's really interesting that people have such huge regard for Figunners in the US. From what I'd heard on the JP servers, they constantly complained that Fortefighters were far better.

Mio
Dec 28, 2006, 06:47 PM
Go guntecher

you resta, you heal, you status effect all

Lyrise
Dec 28, 2006, 07:13 PM
On 2006-12-28 15:26, -Dainslef- wrote:
It's really interesting that people have such huge regard for Figunners in the US. From what I'd heard on the JP servers, they constantly complained that Fortefighters were far better.



It's not that we complained, its just that when you play both, you then start to see a huge difference.

Ether
Dec 28, 2006, 07:16 PM
On 2006-12-28 16:13, Lyrise wrote:
It's not that we complained, its just that when you play both, you then start to see a huge difference.

But a while ago you said...


On 2006-11-27 07:30, Lyrise wrote:
Consider this. Rabol Rad and Crimsonline are set armors. That is, you use Mukrad spear, or Crimson saber along with their respective armors, your attack power, defense and accuracy will jump up 25% (Possibly making FGs the most overpowered melee class period, due to Crimson being S Grade weapon, and Gravity Strike being so useful. Adding 25% more attack to that would be soooo unfair to the opposition...)

I know you play a Figunner, but do you now think they're underpowered compared to Fortefigher?

Solstis
Dec 28, 2006, 07:16 PM
Of course, when the Japanese say something, it is clearly correct and is an opinion unambiguously held by all.

Cry0
Dec 28, 2006, 07:37 PM
if i had better weapons, i'd do better damage, but for now my lv40 helps pretty decent for it's lv in mizuraki S. i never die, anyway, that's a plus point. and he's figunner. trick is double hg for worms and lifting attacks for the others.

Garnet_Moon
Dec 28, 2006, 07:39 PM
I can ge MD S down to 15-18 minutes in a sloppy PuG with really odd levels. MD S isn't really too hard to beat in under 20 minutes in a party. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime2.gif;

Lyrise
Dec 28, 2006, 08:27 PM
On 2006-12-28 16:16, Ether wrote:

I know you play a Figunner, but do you now think they're underpowered compared to Fortefigher?



I didn't say anything like that. In fact I play both the classes, but I'm speaking in present tense. What I did say was that Fortefighters are a lot more effective. Fighgunenrs can POTENTIALLY be more overpowering, except for this fact...

Crimson isn't something that's available on ANY server, nor would it be readily obtainable.

Shiro_Ryuu
Dec 28, 2006, 08:59 PM
well, the S rank weapons may be readily available sooner or later, eventually.

omegapirate2k
Dec 29, 2006, 01:45 AM
I do believe fortefighters can't use S rank sabers, only fighgunners can. Well, atleast to my knowledge (Haven't had access to my 360 for a bit, so I could be wrong.)

I'm a fighgunner, I've partied with other fighgunners and fortefighters alot, but not as often as I do with fortetechers. Usually when theres 1 or 2 fortefighters in the party or when I solo, I usually play the role of a ranged class (Thank god for twin pistols) rather than a melee class, but in the absence of fortefighters, then I usually favour melee attacks.

Zalana
Dec 29, 2006, 05:26 AM
Traps are also a awesome addition to them. =)

etlitch
Dec 29, 2006, 06:28 AM
Those are, pretty crappy times. Should've been like cherry party, onmaS on 13 mins.

Diablohead
Dec 29, 2006, 07:30 AM
Just to add a reply, my newman fortegunner seems fairly weak in def and average in atp but my status effects, evp and ata is unbelieveable http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Shiro_Ryuu
Dec 29, 2006, 08:17 AM
well, I personally play the role of meleeing like 90% of the time, I use my guns mostly on flying mobs or tengohgs who are resistant to melee.

Tra
Dec 29, 2006, 08:53 AM
Fighgunners.. hmm

They have the advantage of guns and traps over fortefighters when big monsters like Jarbas and Tengoh, which are both melee resistant and only have one attack point and high hit points. Traps + guns will definately dish out more damage than a afortefighter on said mobs. Yeah there aren't many big monsters, but still, currently jarbas and tengoh are common in the two highest end missions currently available.

Aside from that, twin guns come in handy for situations that can also do good damage with convenience. Such as those jellen worms and flying dragons, they just get plain owned by twin guns. 200x2 damage Twin Guns is about the same damage as my 1000 diga, although 1600 diga on electric monsters can't be matched http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Just looking at the missions now, I'm gonna have to say Fortefighters can own all the stupid missions like De Ragan, LL S and Relics. =) Well they are also unmatched at bosses too, except Dimma.

As far as the melee goes, a full force twin dagger PA or Dus Daggas from a fighunner will still outdamage fortegunners and my fortecher on the right sized mobs http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_eek.gif

Fighunners / Fortegunners > Onma S & Lab S =)
It was me, 1 fighgunner, 4 fortegunners that did Onma S in 16 min (it wasn't 13 min etlich =( I wish) Lab S 9min hehe

Who knows about the future though, whether the new monsters will be suited for fortefighters or not.




.. I'm gonna have to say this is the most grammically retarded post I've ever written. 6am in freezing temperature sorry =(



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2006-12-29 06:04 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tra on 2006-12-29 06:08 ]</font>

Tahldon
Dec 29, 2006, 09:07 AM
On 2006-12-28 15:10, Ether wrote:
Fortetecher in Mizuraki = reverser duty, and not much else



*Reads all the way down and comes back to this*

What's up with -this- statement?

If I put JUST Reverser on a wand and partied with you, would you be content?

No resta, No nuking, just reverser.. and you'd be satisfied? :3

That's interesting..

Mystil
Dec 29, 2006, 09:41 AM
On 2006-12-29 03:28, etlitch wrote:
Those are, pretty crappy times. Should've been like cherry party, onmaS on 13 mins.



Biggest pile of bullshit I've read on these forums. Defend it if you want.

Tra
Dec 29, 2006, 09:49 AM
On 2006-12-29 06:41, Mystil wrote:

On 2006-12-29 03:28, etlitch wrote:
Those are, pretty crappy times. Should've been like cherry party, onmaS on 13 mins.



Biggest pile of bullshit I've read on these forums. Defend it if you want.




Well I just said it wasn't 13 min, but it was 16min, but here is the relink from the screenshots thread http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_razz.gif

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b101/vcfvcf/Psu2006-12-2711-12-55-57.jpg

Neith
Dec 29, 2006, 10:11 AM
Fighgunner, looking at it, does seem to get a bit much. That's why everyone seems to be one. I'll stick with Fortefighter, I love my Axes too much.

Although don't be putting down Fortefighters, we can kick ass just as easily. Anga Dugrega on a mob of Olgohmons stops any Barta casting (not forgetting that the third Axe hit in regular combo also knocks down), and we still get Twin Sabers upto A-Rank, as well as the Lv30 PA for them.

It's like comparing a tank to a sports car, they're both better at certain things.

As for that 16 minute Onma S, what rank did you get? I'm certainly curious how you did that so fast.

Kei-Z
Dec 29, 2006, 11:37 AM
Well, both classes are actually a lot more alike that I thought they'd be. They are obviously both damage classes, and it terms of raw melee damage, the fortefighter has the fighgunner killed. Fighgunner does have a couple guns, but I must admit that I'm a bit disappointed with the fighgunner's ranged ability. Sure, they have a few guns, but their gunning ability is pretty much strictly for damage and their status change ability is lacking. Fighgunners only get up to status lvl 2 with their ranged weapons, which is actually no better than what the wartecher can do with a bow or card/fan. Now I realize that wartechers are not accurate at all, but bows and cards have much higher accuracy than any of the fighgunners guns do. Also remember, fighgunners guns don't have any more range than what fortefighters have with a pistol and since fortes are stronger, their ranged damage is actually comparable at times. Of course, it takes an accurate fortefighter like a cast to hit consistenly with a pistol and for this comparison to be made at all, but it's still something to think about I guess. IMO, the fighgunner would've benefited greatly from having a rifle. That would make his status changing decent and increase his range a bit. And btw, my party did mizu in 15 min last night with a wartecher, a guntecher, a fortefighter, fighgunner, and two fortegunners. I'm not braggin' or anything because I know some people have done it much faster than us, but I'm just sayin' that 20 minutes is nothin' special either.

Tra
Dec 29, 2006, 12:07 PM
On 2006-12-29 08:37, Kei-Z wrote:
Well, both classes are actually a lot more alike that I thought they'd be. They are obviously both damage classes, and it terms of raw melee damage, the fortefighter has the fighgunner killed. Fighgunner does have a couple guns, but I must admit that I'm a bit disappointed with the fighgunner's ranged ability. Sure, they have a few guns, but their gunning ability is pretty much strictly for damage and their status change ability is lacking. Fighgunners only get up to status lvl 2 with their ranged weapons, which is actually no better than what the wartecher can do with a bow or card/fan. Now I realize that wartechers are not accurate at all, but bows and cards have much higher accuracy than any of the fighgunners guns do. Also remember, fighgunners guns don't have any more range than what fortefighters have with a pistol and since fortes are stronger, their ranged damage is actually comparable at times. Of course, it takes an accurate fortefighter like a cast to hit consistenly with a pistol and for this comparison to be made at all, but it's still something to think about I guess. IMO, the fighgunner would've benefited greatly from having a rifle. That would make his status changing decent and increase his range a bit. And btw, my party did mizu in 15 min last night with a wartecher, a guntecher, a fortefighter, fighgunner, and two fortegunners. I'm not braggin' or anything because I know some people have done it much faster than us, but I'm just sayin' that 20 minutes is nothin' special either.




they can use traps to do status effects dude.

ljkkjlcm9
Dec 29, 2006, 12:19 PM
I love my traps, confusing enemies is great as a fighgunner! It's prolly the most overlooked aspect of a Fighgunner, as I rarely if ever see one using traps

THE JACKEL



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ljkkjlcm9 on 2006-12-29 09:20 ]</font>

Nayte
Dec 29, 2006, 12:21 PM
Ive not seen one player use traps at all yet.

Tra
Dec 29, 2006, 12:24 PM
if you see a fighunner not using traps, then they need to learn to play

ljkkjlcm9
Dec 29, 2006, 12:24 PM
well then you don't play with me! I have all the traps, but confusion, freeze, and poison on my little quick item rotation.

THE JACKEL

Remedy
Dec 29, 2006, 12:29 PM
I play with a Protranser and Figunner who use traps like it's their jobs to do so. Makes life fun. :3

Gen2000
Dec 29, 2006, 02:50 PM
The Fighgunners I play with spam traps ALL the time. Traps plus Twin Dagger/Dbl Sabler/Twin Saber/Spear PA spamming = insane DPS.

Even though they can't use all the Traps like Fortegunners and Protransers they still have access to Burn G which still a good G Trap.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gen2000 on 2006-12-29 11:57 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gen2000 on 2006-12-29 11:58 ]</font>

Ronzeru
Dec 29, 2006, 05:05 PM
I just recently started using Burn G, and the damage it does on large mobs own.

Actually, our double sabers and twin daggers also own large mobs too. In LL I was hitting crits of 747+ on several parts of my Double saber combo.. as a HUMAN noless.

Ronzeru
Dec 29, 2006, 05:13 PM
Also, Figunners own large mobs and bosses. And a high elemental crea double saber will be the king of the Hive.

It takes a single figunner to go into an entire crowd, and place the entire group of 5+ mobs on their back with just a single full doublesaber PA... and to keep'em that way alone. Figunners also make baby jesus giggle.

MayLee
Dec 29, 2006, 05:28 PM
I like being a pure Force. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Ronzeru
Dec 29, 2006, 05:33 PM
*pets maylee on her head* we love you pure too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

-Crokar-
Dec 29, 2006, 05:42 PM
why waste my money on traps when they pretty much just waste time. i mean seriously while your toying with your traps im doing massive amounts of damage. i believe ill take massive damage over stupid status effects anyday of the week

MayLee
Dec 29, 2006, 05:49 PM
On 2006-12-29 14:33, Ronzeru wrote:
*pets maylee on her head* we love you pure too. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/anime1.gif

Yay. http://www.pso-world.com/images/phpbb/icons/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

imfanboy
Dec 29, 2006, 06:10 PM
On 2006-12-29 14:42, -Crokar- wrote:
why waste my money on traps when they pretty much just waste time. i mean seriously while your toying with your traps im doing massive amounts of damage. i believe ill take massive damage over stupid status effects anyday of the week



And THAT is why you fail.


Burn traps do in 10 seconds in excess of 5000 damage to a Tengough on S-rank - how much can you do meleeing to it? Not enough, not nearly enough.

Freeze traps stop a Bil de Vear from critting and killing you with spins - wasting a scape at best and ruining an S-rank at worst. Plus, if you're REALLY unlucky with the spins, the scape will raise you up just in time and just in range of another Bil who's spinning and he'll KILL YOU AGAIN.

Silence traps stop a Jarba from killing you with Megid - and burn traps do 5000 all told to them as well.

"But fanboy," you whine, "I never play in those areas 'cause the enemies hurt me!! I only spam Dragon because it's easy and gets me levels fast!"


Well, didn't I already say you fail? XD

MayLee
Dec 29, 2006, 06:14 PM
If this turns into a flame war I will choke the nearest poster. >=D

-Dainslef-
Dec 29, 2006, 06:22 PM
Truth about those traps. It's a shame they cost money in PSU, making people not want to use them.

Ronzeru
Dec 29, 2006, 06:40 PM
lolmeleedmg on a tengoh. put away that sword and use a gun. melee on things like that = teh gimpness.

Ronzeru
Dec 29, 2006, 06:44 PM
On 2006-12-29 15:22, -Dainslef- wrote:
Truth about those traps. It's a shame they cost money in PSU, making people not want to use them.



People won't even buy scapes cheap bastards.

-Dainslef-
Dec 29, 2006, 06:46 PM
Actually, meleeing them isn't bad if you're using axes, but yeah, besides that, forget it.

Kei-Z
Dec 30, 2006, 05:03 AM
Fighgunners do have traps, I realize this, but the funny thing is, protransers have a huge advantage in the trap department anyway, and furthermore, protransers are much better all around for dealing status effects, since they have what is arguably the best trap exclusively as well as all the other ones and they have lvl 30 bullets and guns with status lvl 4. So in a lot of ways, the protranser is what I thought the fighgunner would be. IMO, the fighgunner really is no where near being the most useful character type. The fighgunner loses to the fortefighter easily in damage, and what's sad is that the fortegunner is actually just as strong and durable and then the fighgunner also loses to the protranser in terms of status effects with both traps and bullets. The fighgunner seems to be the "average" class of the game, not really excelling in anything at all. The sore spot here is the fact that the fighgunner loses so much in the way of damage, but still does not have a convincing mix between melee and ranged abilities (and when I am saying ranged abilities, these abilities include trap usage) Traps are almost not even an advantage for fighgunners. I'm not questioning their usefulness, because they are very useful, but if you think about it, more than half of the advanced classes can use traps anyway. (Fortegunner, Guntecher, and Protranser, as well as the Fighgunner.) So if just one of these classes is in the party, it will severely decrease the usefulness of the fighgunner. In the case that one of the other 3 classes that are trap uses is in the party, which should happen quite often I might add, the fighgunner is reduced almost exclusively to damage dealing. This does not bode well for the fighgunner because he is already so much weaker than the fortefighter, and really, the fortegunner, and even the wartecher are close enough in atk power to the fighgunner that the fighgunner has only a minimal advantage in terms of melee damage.

Ronzeru
Dec 30, 2006, 12:27 PM
Yea, too bad most protransers don't use traps and are gimped because they refuse to level their job past level 2 out of lazyness, and fortefighters are too busy dealing damage to a single mob and getting killed to maximize their damage on every mob like figunners do =D

ProfessorZ
Dec 30, 2006, 12:56 PM
The only reason I laugh is because you state that these other classes can do certain things but in my gaming experience its only the figunners that do it. And do it best

ljkkjlcm9
Dec 30, 2006, 02:18 PM
no one uses traps. Protransers tend to use them the most, and I rarely see them use it. I have NEVER EVER seen a fortegunner or guntecher use a trap.

Fighgunner is one of the best classes, and trying to say it isn't is kinda absurd. Go ahead and say fortefighter deals more damage per hit... but see, fortefighter is suppose to be a bigger slower weapon user, such as the axe. And fighgunner is suppose to be faster weapons, such as twin daggers, or twin saber, or double saber. In the one hit you do with an axe to do 600 damage, I do 3 with a twin saber at 200 a piece. Fighgunner's are just as affective fighters. In fact it's common that I find myself doing the most damage to the enemy in the entire party, even with fortefighters. And dual pistols is a great range weapon. They shoot fast, not much PP per shot, and have a decent chance of status on the common monsters. Switching to dual handguns especially to take out flying enemies, is a must. Fortefighters can't do much about enemies that are strong against melee attacks. Throw in traps, and you got a good all around fighter.

THE JACKEL

Wheatpenny
Dec 30, 2006, 02:59 PM
I think it is time I stuck up for the fortefighters.

Awesome is spelled A-X-E!

Kei-Z
Dec 30, 2006, 03:07 PM
Fighgunners are not one of the best classes...average at best, it's true. Whether people actually use the traps or not is on them. But the fact of the matter is, most of the classes used at their full potential can easily outshine fighgunners. Fortefighters can use all of the weapons fighgunners can, remember? With the exception of double sabers. It won't even matter until s-rank weaps are out, but even then, fortefighters are stronger and will do more damage than fighgunners with their own weapons. And truthfully, fighgunners aren't much more effective against enemies that are melee resistant than fortefighters are. I do realize that a lot of fortefighters don't even have a pistol, but fortefighters do some pretty decent damage with normal pistols. Dual pistols are only good for dmg with the fighgunner. It's a good thing that people keep mentioning that fighgunners have traps because the traps are really the only definitive advantage to using one over a fortefighter. In this comparison, ranged dmg is offset by the atk power differential between the two classes, so in the case of this particular comparison, range > power. But, dual pistols have no more gunning range than pistols do and the comparison between the fortefighters' ranged and melee damage and the fighgunners ranged and melee damage is not an equal comparison. So fighgunners do more damage from range, but comparitively not as much as how much more damage fortefighters do than fighgunners in the melee department. Dual pistols and trap usage are not good enough to make the fighgunner good in comparison to the serious hit they take in power, def, and hp. This just isn't an equal comparison either. And only fighgunners use traps now? That's really absurd. Z, you are generalizing by your own experience. Everyone else that uses traps can use traps just as well as fighgunners can and protransers do it better, so your point is non-existent. You say fighgunners do so many things better than everyone else, but you have already killed your own point by posting your average time for MD S. My party was five minutes faster with an assortment of classes, and that time isn't even all that great because I'm sure there are people that have already killed our 15 minute time. I'm not trying to be insensitive, just showing the facts. I realize the fighgunner is a popular class, and rightfully so in terms of aesthetics. Heck, I was a fighgunner fan myself and I still enjoy the class because they are fun to use. They are able to use some of the coolest and most popular weapons in the game and for this reason many people, particularly the American crowd, will always defend them. But after seeing and experiencing their abilities, I had to face the facts. The fighgunner is not one of the top classes in the game. There's nothing wrong with playing them for fun, because that's what the game is about, but they are no where near being one of the best classes truthfully.

Ronzeru
Dec 30, 2006, 03:11 PM
lol@fortefighters vs. melee resistant mobs.


Out of curiousity, what do you do with your damage on a tengoh per swing of whatever weapon you use. I've gotta hear this.

And as a HUMAN out of all races alone, I can pop 750+ crits in LL S Class with just a double saber PA alone, and that's at a whooping gimpy level 5 figunner.

ljkkjlcm9
Dec 30, 2006, 03:18 PM
you seem to believe there are truly better classes than others. Each class has a balance of some sort. The best class is the one you enjoy using the most. I would never change class because, oh this class has more ATP. Honestly when it comes down to it, the differences are not that significant. Obviously you think you're opinion is correct and everyone else is wrong, and there's no convincing you otherwise. Every class can be the best class given the correct situation. Just because his time was not amazingly low, doesn't make the class bad. Maybe the people playing were bad. Maybe they weren't as high of levels as your group. The fact that people get that competitive about times on a mission is absurd. Know why? I play to enjoy the game, whether a run takes me 10 minutes, or 2 hours. If I'm having fun, I don't care. Just doing things as fast as I can is not why I play the game, which is half the reason I dislike story mode. Having to run through missions in a certain time, to get an S rank, especially on free missions where basically you can't make a mistake to get S rank, and have to skip all the items. I play to enjoy, not to blow through everything as fast I can. I play the class I enjoy the most. So my ATP is lower, but they have good melee and decent ranged weapons. So I have lower HP... I don't get hit enough to make the big a difference, if I die, it would have killed me if I had more HP too.

Fortefighter is not a better class. There is no better class, sorry to dissapoint you. But fighgunner is a good class, and in no way horrible. Actually, I don't think any class is horrible. ST did a good job balancing and making every job useful.

THE JACKEL

Wheatpenny
Dec 30, 2006, 03:22 PM
On 2006-12-30 12:11, Ronzeru wrote:
lol@fortefighters vs. melee resistant mobs.


Out of curiousity, what do you do with your damage on a tengoh per swing of whatever weapon you use. I've gotta hear this.

And as a HUMAN out of all races alone, I can pop 750+ crits in LL S Class with just a double saber PA alone, and that's at a whooping gimpy level 5 figunner.



Well I am a Human fortefighter and I don't use a melee weapon on tengohs. I use my pistol because they are melee resitant, I am level 59 and can do from 200-220 each shot on a tenghoh using level 9 ice bullet. I save all the good axe loving for mobs that aren't physical resistant.Note I also use a Solid/ Power S that also factors in to why my pistola does so much.

Shadow_Wing
Dec 30, 2006, 03:37 PM
Fortegunners can use Protranser traps, Taste my betterness to you Protransers =3

Anyways....

Though I haven't used virus traps in a while since I burn just about anything with relative reliablity, just can't wait for my own virus ammo this 1/12, and using it for DA is just difficult due to the sheer amount of gohgs that map has...

Also Fortefighers have a massive advantage against figunners to dmg, I've noticed this with my usual team which has both fF and FG in the same team, abiet one is a cast and the other is a beast but the diff between their dmg is massive in comparison to eachother.

The myth of fF being unbeliveably slow is a myth, and all reality, FG weapons are only slightly faster than some of the big dmg items a fF has.

The real advantage a FG has over fF though is the amount of targets their PAs can target, and in this case is how they can remotely keep up with a fG in damage.

Also, refer to my sig to what class I am =P, now some wonder why a fG is even posting in this thread, well it's stuff I've seen and talked about to my buddies so I know a few things ^_^;.

Kismet
Dec 30, 2006, 03:46 PM
I think fighgunners and fortechers are really cocky bastards who're full of themselves because they can pwn everything with every other melee weapon.

But that's just my opinion from the people I play with, though. >_>

No matter what, wartechers FTW!!!! >:3

Kei-Z
Dec 30, 2006, 03:49 PM
Well first of all, I never said anything about playing for fun vs. playing for stats, time, or whatever. It should be played for fun and when I was talking about my party's time on MD S, we weren't even trying for speed, we were simply playing the game normallly and happened to have a decent party. Jackel, you're making some really off-based assumptions and not only about me, but about those that may play competitively. I don't categorize myself as a person that does play competively as you have assumed that I am. Please remember though, even those that do play competitively do so for fun. I simply said that fighgunners are not one of the best classes when you take a look at the actual numbers. It's very naive to think that there can ever be true equality between classes in this type of game. I do believe that the classes, in terms of overall ability, are faily balanced in this game, but even sonic team knows that they are not all completely equal. I'm just pointing out facts here, weighing all the abilities to the best of my knowledge. I'm not saying that my opinion is absolute gospel, but those of you that are disagreeing with me aren't really presenting any information that isn't based on opinion or emotional attachment to the fighgunner class. It's impossible to have true equality when you're working with apples and oranges. The only way for the classes to really be equal to each other is for them all to have the same abilities and in that case, there'd be no variety. There has to be inequalities in a game for there to be variety. Sure, player skill comes into play too, but that doesn't mean that a player of equal skill with two individual classes can't do better with one class than the other. I respect that you play the game for fun. I play for fun as well, and I'd appreciate if you'd do the same for me instead of making so many assumptions.

Ronzeru
Dec 30, 2006, 04:04 PM
On 2006-12-30 12:22, Wheatpenny wrote:

On 2006-12-30 12:11, Ronzeru wrote:
lol@fortefighters vs. melee resistant mobs.


Out of curiousity, what do you do with your damage on a tengoh per swing of whatever weapon you use. I've gotta hear this.

And as a HUMAN out of all races alone, I can pop 750+ crits in LL S Class with just a double saber PA alone, and that's at a whooping gimpy level 5 figunner.



Well I am a Human fortefighter and I don't use a melee weapon on tengohs. I use my pistol because they are melee resitant, I am level 59 and can do from 200-220 each shot on a tenghoh using level 9 ice bullet. I save all the good axe loving for mobs that aren't physical resistant.Note I also use a Solid/ Power S that also factors in to why my pistola does so much.



That's cause you're smart ^_^ (that wasn't sarcasm btw)

Wheatpenny
Dec 30, 2006, 04:16 PM
On 2006-12-30 13:04, Ronzeru wrote:

On 2006-12-30 12:22, Wheatpenny wrote:

On 2006-12-30 12:11, Ronzeru wrote:
lol@fortefighters vs. melee resistant mobs.


Out of curiousity, what do you do with your damage on a tengoh per swing of whatever weapon you use. I've gotta hear this.

And as a HUMAN out of all races alone, I can pop 750+ crits in LL S Class with just a double saber PA alone, and that's at a whooping gimpy level 5 figunner.



Well I am a Human fortefighter and I don't use a melee weapon on tengohs. I use my pistol because they are melee resitant, I am level 59 and can do from 200-220 each shot on a tenghoh using level 9 ice bullet. I save all the good axe loving for mobs that aren't physical resistant.Note I also use a Solid/ Power S that also factors in to why my pistola does so much.



That's cause you're smart ^_^ (that wasn't sarcasm btw)



Lol Thank you. Im kinda debating changing from A Rayratore(awesome pp) to a Beamgun (less pp but more atp) that or carying one of each. Because I have a feeling when I get around to Onmagoug S I will need both.

Kei-Z
Dec 30, 2006, 04:19 PM
Oh and Wheatpenny, the beamgun is pretty good. I have one on my beast warthecher and not even I miss much with it. It's only pp somewhere in the 500's, but it does have both good strength and accuracy for those of us that can't really gun well.

Wheatpenny
Dec 30, 2006, 04:26 PM
Ty for the info Kei-Z. I need all the ATA or ammo I can get that Solid/Power S I have gives me +145 atp but -80 Ata. Mabee I should carry both guns.

Kirip-san
Dec 30, 2006, 05:24 PM
On 2006-12-30 14:23, Kei-Z wrote:
Soooooo anyway...about that Phantasy Star Universe game...


Fighgunners are fun~nyo.
=x

Kei-Z
Dec 30, 2006, 05:25 PM
Ha, ha! Well said. Yes, they are fun, aren't they?

Ronzeru
Dec 30, 2006, 05:46 PM
Figunners are sexy.

imfanboy
Dec 30, 2006, 06:06 PM
On 2006-12-30 13:26, Wheatpenny wrote:
Ty for the info Kei-Z. I need all the ATA or ammo I can get that Solid/Power S I have gives me +145 atp but -80 Ata. Mabee I should carry both guns.



Just... don't.

That unit's meant for Rangers - seriously, you're hosed if you get it. You won't hit ANYTHING. Go for the / Hit S series instead - you can AFFORD to lose the ATP in exchange for the ATA. I've got a stella / hit S on my fortefighter and it's AMAZING the difference that it makes - and it's only a C rank!

Don't be a sucker. You need ATA, not ATP. Otherwise, you won't hit anything at all.

Wheatpenny
Dec 30, 2006, 06:36 PM
On 2006-12-30 15:06, imfanboy wrote:

On 2006-12-30 13:26, Wheatpenny wrote:
Ty for the info Kei-Z. I need all the ATA or ammo I can get that Solid/Power S I have gives me +145 atp but -80 Ata. Mabee I should carry both guns.



Just... don't.

That unit's meant for Rangers - seriously, you're hosed if you get it. You won't hit ANYTHING. Go for the / Hit S series instead - you can AFFORD to lose the ATP in exchange for the ATA. I've got a stella / hit S on my fortefighter and it's AMAZING the difference that it makes - and it's only a C rank!

Don't be a sucker. You need ATA, not ATP. Otherwise, you won't hit anything at all.



I have a question, have you tried it? I have and sure I get some 0 every once in a while but for the most part I still hit. You know don't knock it untill you have tried it kinda thing.I can just pop Zoridides for ATA.I would want more ATP but thats just me.

Shiro_Ryuu
Dec 30, 2006, 08:10 PM
I'm sure that CAST and Newman fortefighters/fighgunners may benefit the most from that Solid/Power S, and just out of curiosity, where do you get it? and is it out on US servers yet? I really want that, and I would also like to know what rank it is so that I can get the proper armor for it.

Kei-Z
Dec 30, 2006, 11:29 PM
Hmmm...I'd like to know as well.

Shadow_Wing
Dec 31, 2006, 05:59 AM
De Ragon, but a 80 hit on ata is a bit harsh.

In certain S ranks I can see it being not worth it.

Shiro_Ryuu
Dec 31, 2006, 08:41 AM
well, it won't be so bad on a fighgunner, and as I previously said, CASTs and Newman Hunters, especially Fighgunners have a better chance of getting away with it than Beasts. lets say a human fighgunner uses it, his atp is 623 and his ata 290 and as a fortefighter, he'll have 668 atp and 235 ata(I took these stats from the Japanese wiki btw), the fighgunner would have atp surpassing the fortefighter's atp by a longshot, being at 768 while having only 15 ata less than the fortefighter. If a fortefighter uses it too, sure, he'll still have more atp, like at 813, but his ata would be almost as low as that of a fortetecher, like 150-ish.

well, here's a breakdown of the results of a human fortefighter and fighgunner w/ and w/o the unit:
without:
Fortefighter - ATP: 668 ATA: 235
Fighgunner - ATP: 623 ATA: 290

with:
Fortefighter - ATP: 813 ATA: 153
Fighgunner - ATP: 768 ATA: 210

well, Im speaking of numbers, because its all I can do since I never tried it, everyone should know that personal experience matters more than numbers, the most important numbers are the ones you see from the monsters and the red ones from your character. Besides that, its all whether or not you like it. Either way, back to talking about this, when both ATPs are increased by 145, the difference seems to be smaller while Fighgunners get away with the ATA hit better.

Ronzeru
Dec 31, 2006, 11:33 AM
Fuck gettin' away with it on a figunner. Doing S Rank missions, I want to see as lil missions as possible. One attack with more damage added to it, isn't going to make up for the 0s. If someone hits harder but has more 0s, and i'm hitting less harder, but barely have a 0 popping up in a S rank run at all, guess who'll be dealing the most damage? The thing that makes this worst is that the people who want it the most are the race with the worst Acc in the game. It boggles the mind really.

Lyrise
Dec 31, 2006, 03:17 PM
One other thing to consider is your overall damage output. I like both classes a lot. But seriously, if it's all about damage output, it has to be Fortefighter. Sure you can use a Solid/Power S unit and raise the power of a Fighgunner beyond that of a Fortefighter, but lets face it, who uses normal attacks constantly?

Most of your damage output will come from your Skill Arts, and unless you can afford to waste 10 photon charges every outing, the reduction ability a fortefighter has will completely make up for the lower power stat. This is assuming the fortefighter is NOT using the solid/power S unit, but rather a Meiga/power unit and the fighgunner is; this would make the difference between the 2 classes in the previously mentioned example about 50 power and 25 accuracy, but one class can expend less PP to really dish it out. 20% reduce may not seem like a lot, but when you get into low cost PP skill arts, you see a huge difference. Besides, 50 power difference only adds up to 10 extra damage anyway in terms of normal attacks.

Not saying that fighgunner is a bad class (even my main is fighgunner, despite the fact that I play all the classes), but there are a good number of people who play fighgunners like fortefighters. This is not incorrect, but as fighgunners you have all-range attacking ability, so why waste it?

Alisha
Dec 31, 2006, 08:53 PM
who uses normal attacks constantly?


i use normal attacks a lot with weapons like twin sabers and sometimes with 1h sabers you can also do it with one of the dual claw pa's. you could probally do it with double sabers too. of course i only use regular attacks after i knock up/down monsters.

Edit:i also think power units are kind of crap because they dont stack with pa's nothing beats pure atp.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Alisha on 2006-12-31 17:56 ]</font>

Ryoki
Dec 31, 2006, 09:44 PM
Ok, this pisses me off. You make me sick to my stomach, and make me ashamed to be a Figunner.
Figunners are in no way superior. Our lack of resta/shifta/deband, and in my opinion, since I used it quite a bit in ultimate mode, the lack of jellen and zalure combined with those is a big hit to take. I myself was tempted to go wartecher, and Guntecher seems like one of the best classes to solo with, very supportive.

BTW: Ronzeru, although the idea of being a beast figunner seems ridiculous, I can say that it isn't too much of a difference in ATA. I am kinda fed up with other beasts going guntecher, figunner, and fortegunner without using an ATA unit on their armor, or at the very least, using accurate weapons. (one reason I prefer twin daggers is their accuracy.)

Also, seeing so many figunners (I refuse to say, fighgunner. Bah.) not using their ranged options is getting on my nerves. I do not care what class you are. Everyone needs a handgun. Everyone. Reminds me of the possibility of a CAST back on PSO going into the Seabed, and seeing one of those Recon-spawning boxes on the wall and realizing they have no handgun. And no techniques.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryoki on 2006-12-31 18:47 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryoki on 2006-12-31 18:52 ]</font>

ljkkjlcm9
Dec 31, 2006, 10:36 PM
sigh, you people take this game too serial..

People should play however they want, even if they use the class "wrong" by your standards, doesn't mean they use the class incorrectly. I'm a Figunner, and I play more of a support role. That's how I personally see Figunners. We don't deal the most damage, and we're not the best at inflicting status with ranged weapons or traps, but we can do both pretty well. We're a balance class used to support the other classes, IMO.

Now the ATA argument always gets on my nerves being a beast myself, because honestly, it's not that hard to attack from behind to make most of your attacks hit. With a beast, I can go through entire blocks without missing on S ranks, just by attacking from behind and using higher accuracy weapons. ATA is highly overrated, especially on a player who knows what they're doing.

THE JACKEL

ProfessorZ
Jan 1, 2007, 12:22 AM
On 2006-12-31 18:44, Ryoki wrote:
Ok, this pisses me off. You make me sick to my stomach, and make me ashamed to be a Figunner.
Figunners are in no way superior. Our lack of resta/shifta/deband, and in my opinion, since I used it quite a bit in ultimate mode, the lack of jellen and zalure combined with those is a big hit to take. I myself was tempted to go wartecher, and Guntecher seems like one of the best classes to solo with, very supportive.

BTW: Ronzeru, although the idea of being a beast figunner seems ridiculous, I can say that it isn't too much of a difference in ATA. I am kinda fed up with other beasts going guntecher, figunner, and fortegunner without using an ATA unit on their armor, or at the very least, using accurate weapons. (one reason I prefer twin daggers is their accuracy.)

Also, seeing so many figunners (I refuse to say, fighgunner. Bah.) not using their ranged options is getting on my nerves. I do not care what class you are. Everyone needs a handgun. Everyone. Reminds me of the possibility of a CAST back on PSO going into the Seabed, and seeing one of those Recon-spawning boxes on the wall and realizing they have no handgun. And no techniques.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryoki on 2006-12-31 18:47 ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ryoki on 2006-12-31 18:52 ]</font>


HEY RYOKI STFU LOL

Its_a_name
Jan 1, 2007, 03:36 AM
On 2006-12-31 19:36, ljkkjlcm9 wrote:

People should play however they want, even if they use the class "wrong" by your standards, doesn't mean they use the class incorrectly.




I second that.

imfanboy
Jan 1, 2007, 05:38 AM
People can play the way they want to - but if they're being stupid, I REALLY hate playing with them. It wrecks MY fun and, whether they know it or not, wrecks theirs too.

It can give them the idea they're playing a 'gimped' class.

It can make them think that certain areas are 'too hard'.

And means they die more often, which means their class level goes up slower, and means they get less money too, which means that their gear is stuck at a low level.

It's all well and fun to say, "People can play their own way" but people are DUMB. I mind me a level SIXTY Figunner (one that I actually consider to be a good teammate!) who had NEVER used traps before I said, "Hey, want to grab some Burn G's to make this Terror From Above S run go faster?"

After she tried them once, she was HOOKED - and she was a much better figunner for it.

There are dumbasses who don't know that figunners can use double handguns, or that Tengoughs are melee-resistant and handguns do more damage.

There are retards who don't THINK "Hey, maybe I should carry more than just 2 weapons on my pallatte? What happens when I run out of PP?" Seriously, I know some HIGH LEVEL figunners who carry just TWO weapons. No more in reserve, just TWO. *kicks*

There are mental defectives who don't realize the tactical differences between twin daggers, twin sabers, double sabers, single sabers, single claws, etcetera, and don't KNOW that using a different weapon in certain situations means the difference between dying and living. Stunlocking Bil de Vears, anyone?

And that's not even bringing up the subject of 'traps'. *bangs head into desk*


So, second it all you want, but if you can't play WELL, you're only making the game harder for yourself and everyone around you. And if you want a challenge, play Protranser, not Fighdumber.

Cav
Jan 1, 2007, 05:52 AM
ps2/pc > xbox because... wait wrong thread <.<

Sakura123
Jan 1, 2007, 10:42 AM
On 2006-12-30 12:37, Shadow_Wing wrote:
Fortegunners can use Protranser traps, Taste my betterness to you Protransers =3

Anyways....

Though I haven't used virus traps in a while since I burn just about anything with relative reliablity, just can't wait for my own virus ammo this 1/12, and using it for DA is just difficult due to the sheer amount of gohgs that map has...

Also Fortefighers have a massive advantage against figunners to dmg, I've noticed this with my usual team which has both fF and FG in the same team, abiet one is a cast and the other is a beast but the diff between their dmg is massive in comparison to eachother.

The myth of fF being unbeliveably slow is a myth, and all reality, FG weapons are only slightly faster than some of the big dmg items a fF has.

The real advantage a FG has over fF though is the amount of targets their PAs can target, and in this case is how they can remotely keep up with a fG in damage.

Also, refer to my sig to what class I am =P, now some wonder why a fG is even posting in this thread, well it's stuff I've seen and talked about to my buddies so I know a few things ^_^;.



Explain to me how a 40 atp difference and over a 60 ata advantage(figunner) gimps a figunner enough for the Fortefighter to do MASSIVE damage over the figunner?

Of course, comparing the same race and using the same weapon.

Because you can't obviously expect a figunner to dish more damage than forte if the figunner is using an one hand saber and the forte a spear.

Oh and news flash everyone. Figunner can use A class Spears, 2 handed Swords, knuckles, single claws and twin claws.

Because your class can't freaking use an S rank weapon does not mean you should not use them at all.

Spear is an amazing damage weapon that every figunner should use and single claws too if you enjoy using melee+gun combo, and twin claws and 2handed swords will be worthwile when we get the second PA of them.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Sakura123 on 2007-01-01 08:01 ]</font>