washuguy is Offline

UH yeah!! I missed you!!! We need you to post inthe NFL discussion thread! It's not the same without you as well!

I thought I should add an addendum to my previous reply. It seems that report you linked has received a lot of criticism from the scientific community for not following (or at least describing) a proper methodology. For instance, the exact amounts feed given to the rats or the exact amounts of residue found to be on those GM + R samples. Further, the type of rat they used was the albino Sprague-Dawley - a rat which is particularly susceptible to developing cancer (especially mammary cancers) when over-fed or allowed to live too long. That's something I didn't know.

Amercian Association for Cancer Research: Spontaneous Tumors in Sprague-Dawley Rats and Swiss Mice

They are not a well picked species for 2-year testing, as spontaneous tumor incidents occur in as little as 140 days and reach their peak around 500 days (which is where Gilles-Eric Séralini's team noticed their most dramatic findings. Largely, these cancers were in the pituitary in males, and mammary in females... just like they should be according to Table 1.

There were also concerns over their statistical analysis, which I've heard described as "statistical fishing trips", but I wouldn't be able to verify because I'm horrible with statistics. Lastly, it should be of no small concern that the group CRIIGEN was a major source of their funding. I didn't know who they were at first, but apparently they are an Anti-GMO advocacy group lobbying to ban (or highly restrict) GMO crops. Their bias is lain bare, and for the paper to thank them for their support in their research and yet still declare "No conflict of interest" is a red flag that this research paper is rigged to give the results that CRIIGEN is paying for.

Hey, thanks for the reply. Hope you're doing well also.

The report you linked to was fairly interesting, and I gave it a full read-through. It makes a very strong case for extended full-life trials for GMO products, and presents a strong case against NK603 maize - which had previously been under investigation. Especially when used in conjunction with Roundup Herbicides, there seems to be a synergistic effect. It seems most of deleterious effects stemmed from either the Roundup herbicide (diluted in water), or in combination with NK603 (as a residue). However, some tumors were also induced within rats fed with non-R treated NK603, both in pure and mixed feed tests.

This seems to be the result of the disruption in the production of ferulic acid, an antioxidant found in the cellular walls of many plants that has been demonstrated to induce apoptosis in many types of cancers - especially mammary cancers, which was the most common developed among the non-R NK603 fed rats. So it seems it wasn't so much of a case of the GMO causing the tumors, but their disruption of a cancer preventative that they had no other means of obtaining on their controlled diet. It's not clear whether or not these results would translate to humans, and humans typically do regiment themselves on such highly controlled diets - so effects in them may be high reduced by receiving ferulic acid from other sources. Still, it's worth a bit of concern considering how much of a staple food corn (and it's derivatives) have become, and how little fresh vegetables and fruits the typical American consumer eats.

While I don't see this paper as an indictment of GMOs in general, we do find common ground here in that we both agree that more testing and better testing methods are called for. Had these studies been done much earlier, perhaps rather than fighting the regulators and controversy, Monsanto could have worked on developing an updated strain that did not restrict the production of ferulic acid - rather than dumping a carcinogen on top of a product that's anti-cancerous properties have been sabotaged.

Supplement:
Role of NADPH oxidase-mediated generation of reactive oxygen species in the mechanism of apoptosis induced by phenolic acids in HepG2 human hepatoma cells.

deng last online 7/12??

Conceit isn't the tihng that invalidates people, just so you know.

Ravi makes an awesome point at 26:40 - that whole disingenuous questioner thing.

Thanks for the offer to talk, by the way. I may take you up on it sometime.

Anyway, as I said, you're not the only one struggling with pride. But to be honest, I think the hardest part of that battle is recognizing it in the first place. It's funny - before I left the church me and a close friend were talking about this subject. We must have pointed out examples of our pride for at least an hour, then compared ourselves to those we perceived as more holy and wallowed in despair. But I dare assert I'd rather be cognizant of many faults then ignorant of only a few. The trick is recognizing your redeemed nature in Christ and accepting that it's the enemies works through you and not yourself that's the problem. Condemning yourself will lead down a terribly dark path, one I'm trying to escape.

Just know that every single trial you encounter is literally a blessing. How else would you grow? Being chosen for a difficult task implies that God knew you would not only be capable of bearing that burden(s), but that you would have the faith to walk out in it... I've often said (at least for me) that I'd rather endure my burdens rather than have them lifted until I've derived all God wanted me to learn from them. In other words, I don't want to "tap out" of a fight.

Ever heard of the International House of Prayer? They have a conference every year, and I'll be attending it (In KC Missouri). Hopefully I'll be able to recover ties with my peers. You should check it out!

It's nice to here you've got your head on straight. You remind me of myself in some ways - It's difficult, but I think the revelation of your faults is a tremendous blessing. This has been one of the things God's just been speaking to me over and over again: He's placed me in an extremely difficult trial, but I'm just so conceited that I never fully yield to Him and instead try to conquer it by myself. Well, it's been a few years since I've tried that. After dropping out of church, forsaking all of my previous friend ship, and a few suicide attempts later, it's kind of finally hitting me.

I went to a conference in Georgia (I'm in MI) a week ago. It was basically teachings on healing and our position in Christ from 8am-6pm ish for 5 days. Needless to say, exhausting. But I've felt like I was fighting my battles completely blind - like the enemy was throwing punches and I couldn't do anything but take them... But, while I haven't by any means been healed of my infirmities, I know the course I must take. Firstly, forgiving those who hurt me in the church, followed by asking for their forgiveness for forsaking them and neglecting my duties as a spiritual leader to my peers.

I'm glad to hear your family is doing better. Hopefully mine will follow suit. Anyway, I'm sure you're familiar with the whole "build your house of solid ground" analogy. But it fascinates me how often David says to "focus on God's statues and laws." Like, I counted one time and it was like 28 times in one chapter. In addition, one thing that is becoming more real to me is when Paul said to "take every thought captive." That's like, a big deal. I cannot fathom how much better I'd be if I didn't dwell in bitterness, fabricating stories to justify my hatred of my church. I go (or went, I'm trying to go back) to a house church of like 90 people, so we were pretty tight until crap happened to me and I left. Now the only friends I've ever had don't really talk to me.

Struggling... I'm at a rough point in my life, but at least I know what to do. What about you?

I see your video and return with my own:


I'll watch yours

Yep :/ Theology, philosophy, a good amount of Bible. I really like reading Ronald Nash and Arthur Pink's work...

Why thank you. Eh, studying a lot mostly. Kind of a difficult time for me so I haven't been all that peachy. But I'm still here.

What up, beloved of the Most High.

Nothing much. was on a big, big hiatus for about a year in 2010. Kinda sucks Microsoft can't give free XBOXLIVE like Sony does with PS3 PSN. I'm currently on PSP2...and on the path to finding myself in this world, why I am here, what I can do, is there a way i can help...sorry...getting a bit off there. Just having a confused, broken time getting over "that girl"...

Long time no see Washu

Linkin Park does has a CD coming out next year sometime