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I just want to say that Kril have done an excellent job updating this topic. I was able to unlock Expert by just changing my build and reaffixing my weapon with the stuff recommended there. So thank you and everyone else who have contributed ^^
Thanks for doing a great job at maintaining the thread, Kril!
I do have some feedback on the thread though, and it's mostly that the wand video isn't very useful. It's just someone showing how big they can make their numbers with their gear, and isn't anything resembling actual high end wand gameplay or rotations (also, rockbear is a bad testbed for like every etoile weapon).
I did mention in the update post that they were reference, im sure you've looked up some vids as well but the night I updated the OP i was super tired and just added a couple of vids for the time being. I am tomorrow going to update it a bit more because theres some stuff I want to add and I can finally add some PA combos in for people to use as reference but ya the Wand video was just reference, an idea, nothing to fully go with and its genuinely how you would fight a boss with Wand anyways.
Spoiler!
Front page only has dps and frame data and such, but I just noticed swiki finally added dpp data, albeit only for ds. Guess I'll just wait for them to add dpp data for db and wand as well (gotta love google's Distortion earrings but can't be helped in this case) which will probably be added soon.
Updated the post a bit:
-added some PA combos (how optimal they are and DPP I'm not 100% sure, thats something I'm waiting on from the people who are doing the more technical stuff)
-added some more youtube videos for reference
-added Flotia series to weapon series list, they're about as good as LS but at the same time the Pot on them is pretty meh
-added a Class Balance Update tab
im still looking for a more casual friendly skill tree build, the only thing atm I can think of is removing Flat Atk Bonus and just pouring those 5 SP into Hp Restorate. Otherwise I'll just leave the tree build I put as a template and let people do whatever with it as originally intended
If theres anything else missing, wanted etc to be added to the OP that can be of some use to others let me know. I'll update the OP over time still as whatever information still comes out
DPP is just the PA notation divided by the PP cost. Something I find utterly redundant so I never include it.
Because you need to find the frame data of said move for dps. Something that isn't already given to you unlike dpp. Most people don't even know how to count frames either.
In the context of mobbing, distortion pierce has roughly 2x the dpp of lightwave yet lightwave is better for mobbing due to the range and hitbox size.
In the grand scheme of things, dpp doesn't tell you much compared to dps. Dpp tells you... This has the best pp efficiency. Yet there are a million and one ways to recover pp without losing much dps.
Huh, I did not know there were so many Guard Points on Etoile PAs.
https://youtu.be/3WiBIlZndhM
Asked this in quick question topic but no answer. I want to know if the 15% damage reduction from Etoile boost is active at the time of the first hit(making it an permanent reduction of 15% at it lowest). I am assuming it doesnt since is only 1 skill point, but it feels very situational given how rare multihits are in general.
Assuming you have the skill tree from the OP post, what would you guys put the last 5 points in now that we have level 95?
Here is a guide by Taiwan player with their recomended skill tree and PA combo for all three weapon
https://bokuragason.wordpress.com/20...-et/#more-4158
@Krill: I found this very well made video for PAs decription https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY7Rt0gskIQ . I think it would make a nice addition to op. Also thanks for your work.
Sorry to change the subject but as a Wand-only EToile using a Liberate weapon, which S4 would you consider to be the most useful between Calming Intent and Raging Pursuit ? :-?
Mysterious Strike.
I'm 93% sure I didn't mention that S4 in my previous question. But thanks anyway, Reilet. I'll give it a try.
Aleady got a 8s LS Dual blade..
Just got a 8s シホウスザク from valentine...is it worth using it?
Seems Distortion Pierce and Celestial Collide were nerfed 'cause now there's a damage decrease with each next same hit in a row...
There's a handy dandy new ring for Étoile:
L/Easy Full Connect!
After using Step Edge, Full Connects require half-gear gauge.
By the way, has anyone tested L/Mate Lovers with Fraulein Rose? Does the ring affect the potential's CD?
Hmm, I tried that ring and it still uses the whole gear gauge.
From what I tried, the only thing that ring does is make the transition from Connect to Full Connect possible by holding the weapon action, instead of having to press the weapon action for the Full Connect.
How useful is ds skip arts? I dunno how it affects dps (tbh mostly using db) but I mainly notice accidentally not pressing a direction when I want to use the full pa
Oh and when wearing easy full connect ring and using full connect with a full gear gauge, do you still empty the whole gauge?
You should skill ds skip arts 100% since the skip arts versions of PAs all have specific uses that you won't get with input versions
-Qasar skip arts is a nice aoE with okay damage and a parry tacked in, which makes it great to deal with trash mobs without having to reposition and/or switch to wand.
- Saber Destruction skip arts is great for doing decent DPS while staying in place and is pretty PP efficient.
- Shooting star skip arts is a very accurate projectile. An absolute must vs most luminmechs (lets you hit their weakpoint very easily as long as you're not too far away from the locked-on target)
- Celestial Collide skip arts is just good since full animation is super lengthy, and sometimes you want that quick burst before targets get away, and since the skip arts version is way faster you can hit your target more reliably
In the end you also tend to only use the initial part of input version of PAs (like you cancel input Qasar as soon as you closed the gap most of the time, and you can also cancel the first part of shooting star and collide in rotation for fast DPS + gear bulding). All of this makes DS very strange and hard to use at first but you get used to it after a while, and it makes the weapon very flexible too !
Completely up to you !Quote:
Oh and when wearing easy full connect ring and using full connect with a full gear gauge, do you still empty the whole gauge?
Easy Full Connect (only the giant slash) = step then hold Weapon action til the giant sword is formed (half a bar)
Connect = step then tap Weapon action (half a bar)
Full Connect step then double tap Weapon action (full bar)
Thanks.
So the ring lets lets choose between connect and full connect for each 50% of the gauge, not use both like I had a full gauge when I only have 50%?
New ring's good and at first sight too OP: with damage cap release on Elder arms you can clap up to 4*1.7m with one hit and refill pretty fast.
But on second - button press delay between switch from Connect to Full Connect is just too big for a high speed combat and you're remain defenseless too.
You have the choice anyways, but yeah Easy connect is the one you more rarely go to. I personally go this way
- normal Connects against aggro bosses, the kind that move around/attack a lot since normal connect chases down while extending the invul from your step and still does a good chunk while boosting gear accumulation.
-Easy connect defo your go-to on stuns, or to pre-fire on a target that's going to come back (stuff like Gryphon/Diabos flying up attacks). Vulnerable and slow but loads of damage so in active combat, it's not really recommended, but then again Etoile being Etoile you can sometimes just accept facetanking and go for it xD
Is Etoile boost worth getting? Made a tree in the sim but I'm one SP over. Rate my buid please:
https://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skil...BdBdBIo000000f
Etoile HP Restorate - useless skill since you'll heal with mate/skill anyways so waste of skillpoints.
Same Arts PP Save - useles at Etoile's main, need only 1-2 points in it.
Wand F. Dash/Wand Teleport - I use wand a lot for mobbing and when need much AoE in EQs but this two seems useless as well.
Double Saber Step Slide - only if you use it much but this one is too slow for me so I don't take it.
I'm use this one http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skill...bdBdBfck000000
Huuuh, guys I do understand you want your trees to be unique, buuuut first post has a great functional tree that has all the essential skills, and the right amount of points on the useful mults, and to be blunt, the OP tree is waaay better than yours. Just because why not, some debunking/explaing
-Same Arts PP save at 3 points is optimal mainly because tech arts multiplier works for 3 PAs, meaning you ideally want to use one PA then another 3 times to benefit both from same arts PP Save and tech arts count bonus (for example, shooting star into celestial collide x 3)
-Wand Dash and Teleport add a lot of mobility, which is absolutely needed for Wand because Luminous flare is your main mobbing tool, and since it's a laser, you want to be able to constantly reposition for it to get the most targets at once. Additionally not using any input while using wand teleport brings you back to the ground which is essential because glitter stripe puts you up and wand teleport is your only way down while keeping a decent DPS upkeep (the fall animation of the PA is so slow it's not worth waiting for it xD)
-Double Saber Step slide is optional kinda but do remember the normal following the slide is twice the damage of a normal done otherwise so it definitely has tons of applications and use for a measly skill point so feels like a waste to skip it
-DS isn't even functional without DS skip arts, just take the damn skill and learn the weapon xD
so yeah OP tree with only compromises possible on HP restorate/flat attack, with possibly skipping weapon related skills if you DON'T use the weapon, otherwise all the weapon skills are very useful on their respective weapons and shouldn't be skipped imho
it's ONE whole SP and essential for the class, why wouldn't you grab it?
As for the tree:
1. you only need 3pts into Same Arts PP, Tech Arts procs for 3 of the same PA's in a row after use from a different one and during that session, Same Arts PP is kicked in reducing PP pure attack. You would literally NEED to spam Tech Arts PP Save 18 times to see the full effect (which is why I added that info to the common questions area) so theres absolutely no reason to have this maxed out unless you're doing some niche build (or sub) which you shouldn't be
2. You want to grab Around Mate Up, it's like Mate Lovers and having those 2 (the ring and skill) boosts your healing amount from mates
3. Grab Flat Atk Bonus, it's honestly not as bad as people make it out to be and with the class being Lv95, you have extra SP's to do it
4. Not sure why you went 9/10 on ET weapon Bonus 1, thats literally where your damage is coming from
5. Etoile Hp Restorate is hit or miss, I found over time since the class has been out that it's been super useless to me because I heal myself 90% of the time because the recovering rate is too low and too slow BUT there have been the few times where it's helped during for example, solo Persona EQ where I make a mistake but don't feel like healing but I'm also dodging/parrying attacks and let the skill heal me. Super niche situations, I guess it's okay for down times but I dropped it. I only have it there in the OP because for newbies otherwise just throw all but 1 SP into the skill and spec into All Atk Up (enough for 40 atk).
In short, I leave it to player preference
Yes and no but more on preference
It is absolutely not useless for Et mains and 3 is the standard amount anyone should be putting in, akin to Lord of Thorns, theres no reason to do more than 3 pts.
They are not useless at all and with Wand being the best of the 3 weapons on Et's weapon pallete (for bossing and mobbing), its a must that you have these.
I agree, even normal running is faster much less Wand fast traveling (or all class Kat). It's a unique animation but because of it being slower than basically normal running, people can skip this if they want
Only going to single out a couple of things because of the points I already made to the build above this one:
1. PP Up being maxed is gross, don't do this
2. Already discussed the Wand skills but not putting a SP into DS Skip Arts is a mistake, you need this if you're using DS
3. 8 SP into All Atk Up is fine if you're aiming to keep the other essential skills otherwise try to work something out if you really care about the extra 10 base atk (which you kinda did)
ty, you were pretty spot on with your post and the tree is meant to be noobie friendly while being casual friendly (I mean it's hard to not mess up the tree mostly)
Didn't really do much to the OP but added some info to the Skill Tree Build tab and added L/Easy Connect with some info to the Gear section (because I slacked on that since the ring came out) but aside from that, nothing really major changing with the class
It's Percent/Rate skill
And what exactly they do? I didn't saw any difference with them and without while running much in EQs like Easter or Armada.
Why? "It's gross" Very well explanation... Personally I like to have more PP: with this I can do more combo PAs before it falls in a purple zone with cut regen.
I don't use DS much and personally don't like Skip Arts cause it's stand in a way while I need to leap through Campship with Absolute Quasar to regain quest fast (I dunno why but right after Loading screen it use only 2nd part of PA and don't react on direction press) and making troubles for a fast travel overall.
You obviously don't use Wand enough to pay attention on fast your speed increases during combos when Wand F. Dash procs (literally says in the description). Wand teleport has its uses here and there
why the hell in this day an age would you do this unless it was a subclass with extra SP's to pour into skill you actually need? Are your units poorly affixed you can't attain above 200pp? is your weapon poorly affixed too? Et doesn't have any PP recovery issues where its worth wasting 10SP on that skill
It's not hard to stay stationary and proc the 2nd half of PA's, you need to learn DS better apparently because you want those half PA's to come out over the full animation like Saber Destructions AoE spinning blades versus just the vertical cuts and skipping Shooting Stars frontal slash and going straight into the projectile spam
Kril OK I'll stay at this then:http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skill...dBdBIoIk000000
are you meme'ing on me now? lol again, you only need 3 SP into Tech Arts PP Save, there is no reason to go above, the point to have that PP reduced during your Tech Arts proc'd dmg boost because once that dmg bonus is gone, you rotate another combo again. You don't just combo once then spam from there are on, your DPS ends up dropping because of no Tech Arts dmg after proc'ing it. I'm also assuming you're meme'ing again by keeping PP Up maxed at which point idc, do w/e
Haha, I think I got a little ahead of myself.. ^^; I should of looked at the front page first yeah.
You think you could you clarify the skill for me? Think that's what made me shy away from it at first, I just didn't quite understand the second part.
"Reduces damage you take every time you get hit. Reduction rate decreases over time."
Does that mean it lose effectiveness over time even if you don't get hit? Will it eventually be doing nothing for me?
Got it. Thanks.
Yeah I see now you can max it just fine and not lose out on anything important. Does it only boost your damage when you don't JA? Is it worth not JAing on purpose? No way right.
I just...oops!
Thanks for all the feedback. After some consideration, reading the posts and front page and playing ET more I came up with this tree now: https://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skil...dBdBIoc000000I
The moveset for DS is still kinda jarring for me. Definitely will take some time to get use to.
Same Arts PP Save at lvl 7, if I'm understanding it right, using the same PA multiple times in a row, the PP reduction per PA used is like this:
5% -> 10% -> 15% -> 20% -> 25% -> 30% -> 35% -> 40% -> 45% -> 50% -> 55% -> 60%
You would have to use the same PA 12 times in a row to reach the maxed 60% PP reduction.
Meanwhile with Same Arts PP Save at lvl 3, it would be like this:
8% -> 16% -> 24% -> 25%
While the maxed PP reduction is lower, you don't want to use the same PA more than 3 times in a row due to Tech Arts Count Bonus anyway.
When taking Tech Arts Count Bonus into consideration, having Same Arts PP Save at lvl 3 is the sweet spot, more or less than that ends up being worse.
minimum reduction rate is 15%, it increases by 15% every time you get hit and decreases by 25% per second, which means it will be at minimum most of the time but can go up drastically when dealing with multi-hit attacks/being comboed. while skill will be at minimum most of the time, it's still effectively 15% reduction for a single point, and that alone is worth it
it's never worth not JAing on purpose because JA bonus is also 30%, which means not JAing still gives the JA multiplier but you lose the Etoile JA bonus and JA critical skills. With that being said, it's still a great insurance since you lose way less damage upon missing a JA, and makes it a possibility to say, purposedly cancel a PA early and miss a JA window to get damage before an enemy goes away and some situation like that.Quote:
Yeah I see now you can max it just fine and not lose out on anything important. Does it only boost your damage when you don't JA? Is it worth not JAing on purpose? No way right.
It does take time getting used to it, I posted about input vs skip arts earlier on so you can check that, but basically you effectively have 8 PAs to use, on top of the strange mobility, counters and various chase mechanics. It ultimately makes the weapon very versatile though, so it ends up being a plus once the mechanics gel inQuote:
The moveset for DS is still kinda jarring for me. Definitely will take some time to get use to.
i know for a fact you're not JA'ing 100% of the time and I know anyone would be glad to take that little extra 40 base atk points for a 1% dmg increase with the extra points.
Also thank you Zeph and Ezo for the detailed posts when I usually post when I'm too tired to bring that over here myself
Not really an Etoile question per say maybe but what are some mag skills/photon blasts people are using on their etoil?
Nothing I put on my Mag feels noticable.
Since Etoile can't use Techs I just go with the skills that apply Shifta and Deband and personally have Mag Revival just because when it happens rarely it's a lifesaver. Alternatively, you could use the Mate/Atomizer generation skills. As far as Photon Blasts, you can go any way really. Illios Proi for extra damage or just Julius Nifta for extra mobbing power is enough.
Should Etoil put S-atk or T-atk on their wand?
My apologies. I skimmed over at the equipment section but forgot to check the FAQ.
One last question, what s4 if not vampiric strike? I have a nova double saber so I only have access to s3 and s4. For s3 I can get skilled strike, but the s4 is less obvious. What are your thoughts on Raising pursuit? I also can't seem to buy pursuing eclipse?
Either Raising Pursuit or Colossal Radiance and don't do anything related to Jellen if you're not a Phantom or Hunter, Eclipsing Decay is bad choice some people are making right now with gear and attaching Phrase Decay to things just because you're in an mpa for that Jellen dmg with Phantoms around. I say this because some Hero decided to do a build on their Sword based around Jellen, very stupid decision
EDIT:
updated the Weapon Meta tab, added SSA's to choose from to the Recommended Gear tab, tried to clarify a little more on the Wand affix question in the Questions tab
Dunno much about the damage PBs (though seems many aren't that great) but I got the Black hole PB on my s-atk mag which I use et, hr and all melee classes and it's very useful whenever mobs are around.
Just don't make the mistake of getting the pp fish, it has long outlived it's usefulness because with SSA you can get faster pp regen any time that does not move in an arbitrary pattern so unless you walk along with its path you won't even refill all pp before it's out of range again.
You mentioned Liberate Wand S5 (Calming Shockwave) solving the PP issue of wand but how so? Does the shockwave give you back PP?
Etoile DB normals recover 15 | 12 + 12 | 20 pp... Might need extra verification.
Radiant Sting went from 28 -> 22 pp. I also feel like it's the fastest traveling PA for Etoile as well.
Vertical Flow went from 25 -> 18 pp | 1711 -> 1511 PA notation
The hitstop is practically non-existent now (it's 1 frame). The entire PA is 74 frames.
The damage notation per hit is 2% -> 26% -> 28% (the edges do 22% and there is two of them)
Overall, the first JA got a buff (dps: 1283 -> 1489),
while the second JA had a slight nerf (dps: 1252 -> 1225)
The range and size on Light Wave feels about twice as big. (The same as Luminous flare in range or bigger and like three times the width of it)
You can also build full gear from nothing in 18 seconds with the DB gear heat up.
It's a small thing but being able to move during normals is something I wanted on DBs and it feels great
I'm curious as to why the tier list says wand > ds > db when DB doesn't have to dodge and its JG doesn't interrupt your PAs. Provided you're decent at timing your JGs, wouldn't DB be the best because it has the highest uptime? It's chase PAs take the least PP, and you get Full Connect up really quickly. I feel far and away the most lethal/effective using DBs over DS or Wand.
Don't fully take tier lists for Etoile weapons as reference, as unlike Phantom or Hero, each of the 3 weapons have very prominent strengths and weaknesses. I really am not a fan of this because althought it's true in some aspects, it also leads people to just think "DB or DS are not worth using and I should just Wand on everything" (mix and match the weapons depending to opinion/tastes etc) which actually makes things much harder on you.
Basically goes like this
Wand
+ Great movement
+ Great AoE for mobbing
+ Very solid DPS on single targets thanks to focus PAs
+ Luminous Flare is the very definition of an overloaded PA xD
- No real counter to speak of
- No fast gap closer
- All PAs have a sluggish startup which forces you to either accept taking damage or cancel the PA out
Summary : Wand is your go-to mobbing option that also works against slow bosses/bosses that you can just outrange. DPS-wise it's theoretically the best weapon, but aggressive or mobile bosses with a lot of range will make you cry !
Double Saber
+ Great counter options with both the forward step counter and WA counter
+ Versatile gear that acts both as damage mitigation and extra damage/PP management.
+ Great gap closing
+ Shooting star is Etoile's only pinpoint accurate range attack
+ Celestial collide is one of Etoile's better pre-fire PAs
- Subpar mobbing capabilities
- Poison/burn kill your gear, forcing you to heal out otherwise inconsequential status effects
- DPS without counters lags behind other weapons.
- Gear is essential for PP management, which means getting hit too often will greatly affect you in the long run
Summary : your go-to bossing weapon against more active bosses, a relatively safe weapon that thrives off not getting hit and milking counters to keep dishing the hurt. It's also your weapon of choice to reach some Luminmechs weakpoints !
Dual Blades
+ Strong gap closer
+ Very consistent damage output
+ Can fight at any range
+ Easy Connect gives you access to the strongest Etoile pre-fire option.
+ Parry lets you use mates with no risk involved (you can still parry during mate animation)
+ Unlike DS counter, Parry's invincibility and leniency makes it easy to deal with multi-hits and deceptive timings
- Subpar mobbing capabilities
- Slow and backloaded PAs require you to plan around enemy movement.
- No counter means the weapon is unable to deliver spikes of damage except with Full connect
- Parry is essential for PP management. Without it the weapon quickly runs out of fuel.
Summary : DB performs somewhat similarly to DS in raw numbers, but while DS thrives off clean duels with precise attack patterns and timings, DB thrives off chaotic fights. Multiple mini-bosses or bosses with superseding attacks that make gear managing hard with DS conversely are a cinch with DB, thanks to all of its cleaving attacks and parry's overall versatility and massive invincibility frames !
As a final note, the DPS values between the weapons are not THAT different even if you take only the numbers. It's kind of why I really like Etoile atm, you can still main any of the 3 weapons as they're all solid but at the same time, they all have shortcomings that are troublesome enough to make you consider using the others !
The point of the weapon Meta is just to show which ones going to do better than the others, if you (not specifically you) don't like playing Wand then use the other weapons
You're not forced to take any damage and you're suppose to open with either Prism or Glitter (primarily Prism), they have I-frames on the start and into it's Focus portion
Technically it is the best and I suggest either learning the agressive bosses better or without a doubt use DS
Agreed with your points
I'm not sure why anyone is mobbing with DB's, its really the only reason that the hitstop was relaxed because it was only super bad when you used it on 3-5 mobs at once, 1-2 barely did much. Slow PA's are whats a killer for the weapon (Distortion), which is why I said before that it needed a power buff more than anything to make it on par with the other weapons. Definitely learn your parrys
agreed
But why does Wand do the best? It certainly doesn't feel like it's doing the best and I'm certainly not parsing as high with wand as I am with DS and DB, with DB consistently doing the best overall against bosses. If it's the best it should feel the best. I should feel the most powerful and effective with the best, but I don't.
How to not constantly run out of pp with wand? Feels like wand dpp is about half of ds and db dpp and I have to refill pp a lot more often.
Use S5:Calming Shockwave for your 3rd normal attack and you'll never have PP issues again. If that's still a problem somehow then Liberate with Calming Shockwave and S4:Colossal Radiance (but this might be overkill). S4:Shared Ruin could also be useful maybe for a weapon purely dedicated to mobbing but meh I still believe Calming Shockwave is all you need.
https://puu.sh/G0lbd/321f61a35c.png DS
https://puu.sh/G0lcS/5b901f0fb6.png DB
https://puu.sh/G0ldU/cf465a976f.png Wand that is shared between TE and ET.
For rotations I'm literally just following the rotations in the OP, except for DS. DS I'm parsing higher with a different rotation. Against slower bosses, I'm doing Skip Arts Celestial Collider > Quick Take > Part 1 of Shooting Star x3 > Full Celestial Collider to lower altitude > Quick Take + DS Gear. It's doing a lot more DPS for me than the listed Rotation in the OP. For bosses that move around a lot more I find DB just does a better job of staying on them and doing damage more reliably.
Units:
Rear https://puu.sh/G0los/d7e0406a0d.png
Arm https://puu.sh/G0lp8/6a9d3ba21d.png (I read Grand S as Grand Strike. Didn't realize it was Grand Shoot until after. This was before they added the patch that lets you see Add Ability stats in the UI. Don't have the money to fix this affix.)
Leg https://puu.sh/G0lra/75592e0941.png
In terms of damage/reliability it is currently going DB > DS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wand for me.
I'm not going to bother getting Stil. It's just not in the cards. I might be convinced to get a Liberate Wand, but I also have all the stuff for an Austere Wand, just waiting for the free grind campaign to do it.
As I've said in my post, the difference between weapons is very thin, thinner than what people say. Charts were made without taking DB S5 into consideration, and I can say from experience that S5 alone is an insane boost for DB's overall DPS. so I'm pretty sure Wand doesn't do double the rotation of a proper DB, even though when talking equally affixed wand and DB, Wand should still come on top as far as static DPS go
And while I agree Wand CAN boss, its limitations in that regard still show in more hectic fights, where you can't keep your optimal rotations, might get knocked out due to lack of armor and lack of purely reactive defensive cancel options and so on. It's ultimately why I'm very happy with it on slower bosses or stun phases, but much less so on more active bosses, since you can't even keep on your optimal rotations as focus stripe and focus flare are just bad vs anything that doesn't want to stand there and get hurt. non-focus flare somewhat helps with that, but then boss also needs to leave you alone to let the beam animation complete itself , and it's not how things pans out for me. So I'd rather just use the other weapons that naturally deal with it better. When all is said and done though, Wand alone can still deal with most bosses since the kind of boss that really is hard to deal with wand is pretty rare overall still
DB doesn't do much less than the other two and it makes up for that with sheer reliability. Sure the rotations do less but DB hits things consistently, and also does not give a single fuck about what's happening around you due to how strong parry is.
With that being said I still stand by my list, not so much in terms of which weapon is better at one thing, but in terms of which weapons does the most overall, and Wand still has essential mobbing pieces and the highest static DPS, which is why it's overall used more. DS vs DB is pure opinion imo, for using both, I literally prefer one to other depending on the boss I'm facing, and I just gave it to DS because I personally find it better on a few more bosses, but pretty sure that would differ from person to person depending to gear/weapon proficiency/preference
my opinion of wand has changed slightly. I just realized that focused PAs have guard frames and that makes bossing with them really really braindead easy lol. Before I was trying to stay far away and spam prism circular > luminous flare. I'm actually getting better damage now by getting in bosses faces and spamming focus prism > focus luminous flare. I'm still getting better overall boss damage with DBs over DS and Wand if I can really focus them down, but I also think that's because my Liberate DB is just better than my Atlus Wand or my Lightstream DS.
ok so after some Rockbear testing, these are my results:
--- 6mill
Wand: F. Prism -> F. Luminous Flare 3x -> F. Prism -> F. Luminous Flare 2x -> 2x Normal (for pp recov) -> F. Prism -> F. Luminous Flare 2x
(F. = Focus)
--- 5-5.4mill
DS: F. Quasar -> 3x N. Destruction -> N. Shooting Star -> F. Quasar -> 3x N. Destruction -> N. Collide -> Normal WA Explosion
(F.= Forward, N.= Neutral)
--- 4-4.5mill Combo 1, 3-3.mill Combo 2
DB: Radiant -> 3x Distortion -> Radiant -> 3x Distortion -> Radiant
DB: Vertical -> 3x Distortion -> Vertical -> 3x Distortion -> Vertical
I did not use any of the weapon special weapon actions (Wand Explosion, DB Full Connect), I only used DS's normal explosion which technically doesn't compete with the other 2 and it's more utility with some damage than it is something you would use sparingly (since DS norm explosion can't get 1mill+ from a single explosion on RB). Main focus was on RB's head of course but can be inconsistent with certain PA's (i.e. hitting the body more than the head) and the annoying movement when RB is spawning eating into the 20 second timer.
Stil Wand
Astral/Tech6/Phrase Weak/Grace Tech - S1: Augment Intent, S2: Skilled Strike 2, S3: Skilled Strike 2, S5: Mysterious Intent (Lib GS S5)
Liberate DS
Astral/Pow6/Mana Rev/Doom Break3/Phrase Weak/Grace Pow - S4: Life Steal (no S4's with static dmg, so this was a sub), S5: Mysterious Intent
Liberate DB's
Category changed to these from DS so same stuff
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I guess some points aimed at Zeph
-DB's root you in place when doing your combo's with Pierce (with obvious movement from Radiant/Vertical) even if you're hitting things consistently and you can't constantly spam the Parry WA either and even if you're parrying super well, if the boss is hyper aggressive then you're going to get destroyed eventually or take a lot of unnecessary damage.
-I'm not sure why you think Wand can barely boss when Wand allows you to move reliably, adjust your height, etc without having to gimp your damage in the process. If you're having PP management issues, I can only say to learn manage better or get Lib Wand S5 to fix it, other wise uhh get good I guess. Make use of non-Focus version of the PA's when needed
-You're also rooted in place with DS with it's main PA rotations, the only difference is that you can counter hyper aggressive bosses a lot easier than DB ever can and better flexible PA's to use making it far more superior.
I think if you watched that tutorial video I have in the OP for Wand use you would have saw the Guard Frames when using it's PA's (Focus too), it's stupid good. Ya the downfall is the annoying knockbacks because of no counters etc but once you get the weapon down it's easier to maintain and prevent frequent knockbacks.
Your DS though, I'm not sure why you skipped out on an S2, you could still manage 200 atk with a different build. A loss on crit dmg. DB's are too slow to make proper use of S5: Thundering Pursuit which is why you opt for S5: Mysterious Intent instead. Wand is okay-ish, opt for Skilled Strike SSA's though
Added note: I'll be updating the PA rotations (well DS I guess) later on this weekend, the ones posted there are from the first 2 weeks of the class being out and I haven't actually looked at swiki in awhile to check out whats there (rather I look then forget to come back here and update the OP)
OK I think my previous post was too long since this answer is missing on tons of things I pointed out
- DPS comparison is static DPS, which I already said wand was the best at. I also never said wand can "barely boss" I actually pointed out it's fine vs most bosses but still has trouble vs active bosses with massive cleave (stuff like Execour and Masq, it performs way better vs stuff like step 30 shiva/varuna solely because the mobility lets you get out of range. The focus guard point while nice is just not enough vs this kind of boss, and the mobility only help if it effectively lets you get out of their attack range while still staying in yours.
- Still vs Liberate is pretty darn unfair considering you get free skilled strike SSAs on top of everything else. Also S5 thundering pursuit adds way more than you seem to think it is. Did you know that just distortion is barely more frames than BO's WA into distraction ? I don't see why Et DB wouldn't get even more leeway with it than BO DB with it considering they never even have to heavily rely on Light Wave but BO sometimes has to indulge in Kestrel when fever is not up.
- Test without WAs is also pretty darn unfair, considering parry and single connects being so key to DB play. In a classic log, connects are actually an even bigger part than DS counter damage, let alone Wand WA. Remember connect boosts gear gen and so do the parries, meaning in any active fight, you'll spend nearly half of your time doing connects on average (full connect is a trap as it does't even increase your overall DPS while making you vulnerable for no reason, it has its places in some patterns for bursts/getting extra on a boss running away but that's it). You also probably didn't mess with parry enough, especially post buff, when it's by far the best at both avoiding damage and dealing with spam. you're invul a good second post parry, and during that time you can either re-parry again if it's a multi-hit, or just chill and wait for an easier window. Mastering parry means it's hard to get ever knocked out of anything during any situation really, which makes the fact the weapon is stationary an advantage ! It lets you farm for parries without consequences which in turns lets you farm for invuln connects and gives massive uptime.
In any case tl:dr I'm not saying you're overrating wand, I'm just saying it's not Hero Sword or Phantom Rod level where it's the best and most comfortable answer everywhere. Wand has to put work on SPECIFIC bosses to perform similarly to DS and DB; I'm also saying you're underrating DB overall, and its buffs especially a fair bit (fair that most don't matter, but the gear and parry ones do, a lot). It's still arguably the worst of the 3 but not by such the large margin you're thinking
except Wand IS the Sword/Rod to Hr/Ph. You can overglorify Et Dual Blades all you want but it will not change the fact it is the worse of the 3, not worse as in "hey don't use these" but worse as in it will never be on par with Wand or DS until it gets a proper buff.
I've never been overglorifying it, I'm just acting as the voice of reason because you've been pretty much hinting it's exactly just trash, like WL tier trash (especially with a test that involves non-connect non S5 thundering no parry static DPS, which is like really bad stacking, imagine taking RA rifle with powering intent SSAs against mobs and then use that to say Launcher > Rifle xD). And again, while I also agree Wand is the superior weapon out of the 3 DS vs DB have been performing very similarly post DB buff so I'm really just putting things back in order here Wand > DS more or less = DB (depends on situation etc) which was the point of my first post AND followups xD.
If im giving off the vibe that DB is trash, its not what im going for. Also, you try fitting in realistic rotations within the spam of 20s for FC and Wand WA, i was doing purely PA dmg tests. Obviously the output would be higher but to have Full Connects 1mill hit against DS normal explosion wouldnt be fair either.
Absolutely disagree on Et using S5 Thunder still, Bo can proc it way more and makes more use of it than Et could, if DB PAs were faster than I would agree
Ok it's all fair then, I was just under that impression but guess it was just me, we're just mostly agreeing and splitting hairs at this point anyway.
Re-reading myself I also realized you could be on the impression that I'm saying wand is heh, which is defo not what I was going for, the PH and HR comparison was more like "Sword and Rod pretty much invalidate the use for the other two weapons except for pure utility (gear for Hero, Phantom can kind of specialize in the Katana by taste but you're still losing on lots of value, and lets face it, the only rifle a rod user would ever go for is Genon xD)" but While wand is inarguably the best weapon out of the 3, it doesn't fully invalidate the other two weapons in the same sense, although it's still the best in most situations !
The only thing i'm seeing is that you guys suck with using DB lol. If you can't get full connect within 20s every single time, then you are just bad.
Second, ds's best combo is and always was 2x shooting star and 2x celestial. The first parts only.
Third, wand's best combo is flare -> glitter stripe + wa tele cancel.
I've known this since day one and is even shown on my dps charts.
If you wanna use the generic standard combo of luminous + prism and destrution + quaser then the dps will be exactly the same as db's normal rotation.
Also, you use the same weapon for testing or their best setup for testing. The instant there is variation in this, you already fucked up your testing.
I actually did watch the tutorial video but I either forgot about or didn't parse that Focus had guard frames. It wasn't until smashing my face against wand trying to figure out why you were speaking so highly of it when my experiences with it have been so negative that I figured it out.
I went with the best 7s affixes I could afford. I refuse to test my luck with 8s and I refused to purchase affixes I didn't already have.
I also only had the one Liberate Unlocker and I am nowhere near any of the other ones to transfer a different S5 to my DBs. These are as good as my weapons are going to get until either the next expansion, or the next time Sega feels generous with giving us stuff,
Because your Wand is using T-ATK, it is incompatible with your S-ATK units, that's why you do so little damage with wand (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
Affixing 8s to weapons today is not that expensive, due to the factors on the weapons, you can buy 8s Dim weapons with power 6 for like 200k or less for example, you also lose more damage throwing an SSA than completing those 200 ATK
That would require upslotting my weapons to 8 which is still too difficult to do. I've never been able to successfully upslot to 8s. I'll get an 8s when I can either reliably upslot it, or the next expansion comes out and I naturally drop a base 8 slot weapon. Until then 6-7 slot is where I live.
Also I was told otherwise that not having 200 attack because of the S1 would be more detrimental than having another SSA on a 7 slot.
Also, Reaffixed the Wand with S-Atk affixes and parsed Rockbear and Driving Rain
Rockbear:
Wand: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...faebb9436d.png
DB: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...7e7e5b12b3.png
DS: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...bc5f1a772c.png
Rain 2020 MPA:
DB: https://puu.sh/G19al/6c4775843a.png
DS: https://puu.sh/G19bb/2e55fc5b46.png
Wand: https://puu.sh/G19bB/8b92a6aae9.png
My theory behind why my DS damage was higher in that MPA is because enemies weren't aggroing me so I was able to spam Celestial Collider with 0 drawback. When doing Masq, Raid Boss EQs, or Divide Quests, I'm parsing much higher with DB since DB Parry is braindead easy and doesn't interrupt attacks. My wand damage is doing much better. My previous rockbear test with wand was 3.2.
Upsloting a weapon with 3 SSA is not really that hard (and even more easy with 4SSA), It can take a few tries but not so many, upsloting a weapon without SSA on the other hand it is very difficult, just do it in a affix week boost, with a 40% booster is like 85% succes rate I think (from 7s to 8s)
Another thing you can do, is get one of the Falz weapons with 8s and use it to create a Celestial with 8s and with that create a Lighstream with 8s (The same applies for a Val to Atlas weapon, etc.) you can do this the next week if you want (0 Grind cost week)
I'm not telling you to DO it, just giving you options if you want to do it
7-8 being 30%, 70% with a 40% ability boost is prohibitively difficult as someone who isn't rich. Especially since I'd either have to also upslot my SAF fodders, or buy them from the shop, and 8s SAF fodders tend to be on the expensive side. Even more expensive if I'm doing affixes without SAF fodders. 7s seems to be the safest area for me right now.
I'm telling you to do that in an affix week boost, only 5 (or 4 if you have 4 SSA) of your 8 slots have to be successful, with 85% rate, is not that bad
SAF are cheap as fuck in the shop
Modulator (It was much cheaper before)
Spoiler!
ATK 6
Spoiler!
Phrase Decay (if you want one)
Basilis weapons are basically the same price as Dim weapons
Sentence Triple
Upslotting a Zeinesis weapon is super easy in Affix Week Boost, with 95% rate if I remember correctly
Persona Reverie
its like 1.4M right now, going to be much cheaper once Persona UH arrives
Ares/Act the Soul
Buy snow soul and escarde soul and affix them each one to your fodders they are cheap
This affix cost me to do like 4.8M (Not counting grind and grace power, grace is right now at 13M) and upslotting the Stil weapom from 7s to 8s took me 2 tries only
https://i.gyazo.com/60c1817c37254dff...130748d044.png
What I'm trying to tell you is that affixing 8s to weapons today is very easy and cheap compared to before
You can max your gauge out on RB in 20s but its not enough time to set off Full Connect, so while ya it's doable it's not practical in this test
This is literally only good for gear, this combo spam doesn't even beat the combo I did for testing, it's fucking bad my dude, especially with the amount of PP you waste
Prism -> 3x Flare is the highest dmg output on stationary or almost stationary bosses. Glitter -> WA teleport is good for PP conservation but it's not something you're always going to do especially if you know you can't hit the weakpoint which then you're better off relying on Prism instead . Glitter -> WA -> Flare 3x is going to output more granted you know you're going to be able to hit the wp.
like Azakuya already said, its not very hard to do 8s on weapons especially when you're allowed to have 1-3 (or 4) SSA's on the weapon that are always at 100% transfer rate and having cheap 8s SAFs you can buy in the player shops make it all the much easier. If you looked at my gear build I posted you'd see that really the only thing expensive was the Mana Rev (which is way cheaper now because of Omega Luther UH) and the Grand boost but outside those 2 you can opt for some other cheaper fodder. If you need cubes, either do solo PD or run DQ, rains cubes like crazy
usually you lean toward the Ex version of these souls but I guess if you care about the extra 5 atk and 1pp I suppose its okay to use them but Astral Soul fodder isn't too over priced that you might as well stick to buying Ray/Unions still
As it stands though, this is still the weapon Meta and it's not going to change until Sega does more balancing in the future but there are gaps that are big between the 3, none of them are close enough in balance to say to use w/e because you'll perform about the same.
Wand > DS > DBs
If you don't like the weapon Meta then play whatever you want
So I think you might have been misinterpreting my posts. I'm not saying I don't want to play wand. Wand is cool and its been one of my two weapons of choice since 2013. What I was saying is that I wasn't getting the results with wand making me question if wand is really actually as good as you said it was. I hope that clarifies things.
In other news, switching the affixes and forcing myself to use exclusively wand for the past week has shown marked improvement, and RNG blessed me finally so I'll have a Stil Wand soon.
I figure you know this but still think its useless, attacking from DS Step Slide does double the damage of a attack from a normal step.