yes.
that's what sword normals are for, their dps is still very good.
Printable View
Thanks.
I know sword normals have good dps, used to be a bit more than Rising Slash before the buff.
But PP refill of sword normals is really bad with only 11pp and Talis refills 28pp in few less frames.
Wasn't Talis normal 1+2+3 1180 dps? It's now 1052 now.
The dps chart seems weird though, for example it says tmg normals have 1066 dps but 1279 with attack pp save, how is lower pp cost supposed to raise dps?
Also, iirc RSlash was 1289 dps when I checked shortly after the buff happened. Looks like someone there a few mistakes with the dps charts the last time someone edited it.
The numbers in () are for hero attack bonus, same as they are for every other normal attack on the chart, they even make a note of it at the top of the chart. The TMG PP save note is for the PP cost / DPP values to the right of it.
It's not like they edited it instantly after the buff happened you know...they still had to determine how the damage increases were distributed since that changed too.
the swiki was finally updated showing how good rising slash is now. 1hit slash and 1hit slash x2 normal3 combo dpses
https://i.imgur.com/cDBcurC.png
that's not how that works. ph base multiplier is enormous compared to hero (456% compared to hero's 360%).
rising slash 1hit slam w/hero mult is 1684*1.6*1.5*1.5 = 6062 dps
folter w/ph mult is 1333*1.45*1.1*1.05*1.65*1.65 = 6078 dps
this is of course not taking weapon stats, affixes, etc. into account, but the gap is not what you think it is.
They actually use that same logic for every PA that has JA appearing before the last hit. I just don’t think the new swiki people know what to look for when that happens... but it’s an orange spark (blue for range) that appears on the enemy that confirms the hit. It’s even easier and apparant to see now that we can finally remove damage numbers from displaying.
But I highly doubt anyone will ever get a frame perfect rising. It’s too hard.
The Hero Boost buff made the past HB issue of losing all your attack a near non existent problem, hitting the dmg thres will make you lose 30% of your HB while countering will recover 10% of that boost back. You can easily play more reckless than before as long as youre maintaining counters for those recovery boosts.
You shouldnt be struggling with dmg upkeep from HB anymore. if you are then well uhh, you know :wacko:
Anyone know how exactly that works?
I.e. if you get hit for 20% of your max hp over e.g. 2 seconds and get knocked down to 30% hr boost, what happens if you take more damage in the next 3 seconds, staying inside the initial 5s window?
Is that added to the original damage since it's inside a 5s window?
Is the window reset upon losing 30% Hr boost so taking damage after 2s actually means it starts to count from scratch towards 20% for the remaining Hr Boost?
Is there any cooldown for losing hr boost? Any cooldown for recovering hr boost with counters?
Are counters counted per enemy hit or per counter attack used?
Do counters recover hr boost if triggered, but not hitting any enemy (e.g. someone else killed the intended target first, etc.)?
I dunno about the first question but i think its safe to assume you recover 10% per Hero counter, not per Mob hit.
no where does the description say it counters for hitting more than one target, once the counter procs and you hit something(s) its 10% recov, rinse repeat. as for the other stuff, no idea, i dont have time to test out the other stuff, im under the assumption you lose 30% and then you get a small grace period before it lets you lose another 30% again (or rest) and you have to rebuild and with how I play Hr i dont always see my dmg reset from 0 so I cant really say
Not sure if anyone went over this, but the %s of power lost, and gained with new hero boost, and hero counter... well knowing this game's history of skills dealing percents of a percentage, what is the actual value of these new effects? Do you lose 30% of the 60% maximum bonus (18%) upon taking sufficient damage? How about that 10% gain on counter?
I havent played Hero in a long time, but I read the hero boost loss is now 30%. Can you stil go to 0% hero boost when tanking multiple hits, or is cap is 30% loss, meaning that you cant go below 30% hero boost anymore even if you take all hits?
Really disappointed in this mechanic because without the cd the only real improvement is being able to restore 10% of hr boost with a counter.
Especially with lag (feels like it's really common again nowadays) you get hit more than once all the time and in UH taking a ton of a damage happens a lot as well so reducing the amount of hr boost lost to 30% made little difference.
I'ma tell Sega next survey to give us a cd and to just halve the current amount of Hr boost, i.e. if you lose it at 60% you go down to 30% and then if you get hit again after the cd it's 15% (tho probably more like 17.5% cause of the boost gain during cd) and if you get hit at like 46% hr boost you go down to 23%.
I think this way it would really take the edge of losing hr boost and it's still a big penalty but not like you lose all of it at once or within a really short time just cause several enemies charge at you from off screen.
as it has been said since ep5 release, lag is not the reason you get hit more than once. hero, and particularly phantom, step i-frames are just short and you need to know when to step with a specific directional input in order to not get hit by the same attack you dodged (e.g. gruzoras laser sweeping from left to right, you need to step towards then left then attack in order to not get hit by the beam). while i will hastily agree with anyone that this is a shit mechanic, sega has never seemed to give a fuck, so it's best to learn how to adapt to that rather than blame it on lag.
Lag is the same issue as ever, seeing on your screen too late when an enemy attacks you and if the lag is especially bad you see the attack after taking damage or even take damage from empty air.
Lag is also what makes enemies teleport on your screen, you see the boss somewhere else attacking some other players and then suddenly it's right next to you.
Also, how is losing hr boost trivial if you still lose 30% when getting hit the first time and lose 45% from getting hit twice?
The cd is important to make the mechanic even worth anything cause like others mentioned as well, right now without cd you can still lose the full hr boost virtually instantly.
What I suggested is giving players a bit of leeway instead of a mechanic that makes barely any difference.
But it does make a difference. You would have to lose 40% of your max hp to have it proc twice. Getting hit for like 39% of your hp won't trigger it again. I'm not even sure if losing 40% of your hp in a single hit would cause it to proc twice. Not to mention you're completely overlooking the fact that you can build it back up faster now with counters.
EDIT: just to clean up what I meant, you lose damage when you take a total amount of damage equal to 20% of your max hp within 20 seconds, NOT when your hp drops below 20%. this means that, even without a cooldown it's a net gain, because it already worked like that, the only difference was that you would always lose the entire bonus every time it proc'd. It won't proc again until you take another 20% of your max hp in damage. taking 20% of your hp in damage then getting hit once for like 5% isn't going to cause it to proc twice.
all that ping does in this case regarding combat is the damage number shows up later. the combat itself is client side, you can block an attack that's coming your way no matter what your ping is. what you are saying does not happen, it just means you are getting hit by something off-screen or simply aren't paying attention...
lag can cause this sometime, but the vast majority of the time is because of area host. whoever loads an area first, the mobs/boss will always be in the location of the area based on what that person sees. this will cause enemies to regularly rubber band as the server tries to update their position but failing to do so correctly.
Hey guys sorry to resurrect this thread.
Anyways the last time I played the game was shortly after SU came out and decided to pick it up again since successors sounded cool. I started out as etoile, but decided to give hero a shot. My question is what do you guys use for mobbing? I have been using brightness end, but it feels like its to much PP for the damage. Is mobbing just an inherent weakness of the class?
You can use Gigrants-0 on talis if you really wanted to. :wacko:
I'll be editing the OP within the next 2 weeks to try and match it with the same look as the Etoile thread and with more update to date info (gear, build etc)
Hero Boost being maxed at the start of a quest nowadays is pretty nice.
i can certainly tell you its not 70k anymore but it still sucks due to the pp costs and sega should really change the damage distribution so the big slash gets more of it and the initial slash gets less.. i think its current 30% for initial and 70% for big but i could be wrong.
Spoiler!
watch Flaoc's 96mill Endless run, you tell me how bad Hero's mobbing really is lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyTcqbAJsAE
Yes,that's slow mobbing compared to something like PH or ranger.
That video isn't helping much though >_< I skipped through and saw only 2 instances of mobbing, once where two mobs were close enough for Rising Slash and once were lvl 80 mobs were oneshotted by Brightness End which wouldn't work with lvl 95 mobs. If there is good usage of Brightness End, at which time?
Brightness End is kinda mediocre tbh the damage is not nearly high enough for such a long charge time and such a high pp cost and most of the time Rising Slash feels like a lot better way to mob, making Brightness Slash only good for low level mobs.
Doing the small slash even if you charge is totally pointless as well because it only takes away damage from the large slash, the small slash has so much less aoe that very often you use charged End for enemies out of its range and still use 30% or whatever of the pa damage on empty air.
why would you skip around and not watch? go to 40:55, you can watch him clear castle which is heavily filled with mobbing throughout it. I also don't think you realize he's on LAP 3 during this entire video considering everything has increased stats
BE is you're mobbing PA along stringed with normals, I mean the class been out for almost 3yrs, if you haven't figured out mobbing, idk what to tell you. Pro tip, BE has JG (or i-frames or w/e) and can be used to avoid dmg (think Deus serpent head smash on final phase) and allow setups
How much HP should i even have for HR anymore? I used to think 1500hp was good but i'm still losing my hero boost to 1 random ass projectile and i'm about ready to permenantly dump this lmao.
Game feels like its actively penalising me for not playing Etoile in current content.
What you said is why there aren't many Hr's anymore and mostly Et's and Ph's. Hr is kind of outdated.
You don't lose the entire boost for taking damage anymore though, it's like 15% of the boost instead of the full 60%.
http://www.bumped.org/psublog/august...e-adjustments/
Two relevant changes that help hero boost out a lot.Quote:
Hero Boost
Reduced the amount of Hero Boost Power loss upon taking a certain amount of damage in a short time.
Hero Counter
Added an effect to regain Power of Hero Boost upon activation of Hero Counter.
that bumped post update is literally on page one of my post
there has been a bunch of balancing since then that people either went back to their favorite classes or got bored of Hero. Etoile is still relatively new so you're still going to naturally see a lot of them and Phantom well, its a good class so why not play it? Hero isn't outdated by any means, peoples taste change over time
Yeah i've tried to counter more but its just not worth it. I've had way too many occasions where I've tried to counter, had the counter noise proc, and still gotten bodied anyway. Its gotten me more times killed than helped to recover my boost. I keep praying they add guard points into the step itself but it still hasn't happened.
I'd like to get the Hr specific S6 but I don't have any affixes done for 13* units yet. Figured HP would be the fix but i guess I'm just playing wrong.
Not really. It's 30% so getting hit twice means you're at 0% again. And you regain 10% from a counter so getting back quickly with counters only works occasionally.
The problem is there is no cd or anything and it's very easy to get hit twice in quick succession when there are several enemies / bosses around like in many eqs so often this makes little difference.
The class is still broken because it has too much of an impact, the only other class that loses damage when getting hit is Gu but there it's only 20% at most and since that is a buff that comes and goes, half the time you lose only 10% or less damage if you get hit.
There were still a lot of heros around after other classes got buffed and hero stopped being the top dps. The main reason hr isn't common anymore is because ph and et are newer classes, not like bo was remotely as common 5 months after hero was added compared to when bo was only a few months old.
so first page is cleaned up, gave it my crappy Etoile treatment and info should be easier to find on the class and w/e else you may or may not need for info. Still need to update some stuff to the post:
-Balance patches
-Common Question tab
-more DPS stuff
I'm not sure how much effort I'm going to put in for the Common Questions tab but I'll do some digging around in this thread to see what I can find. Other than that, the OP has been updated for hopefully better ease of access or something idk
open to anything that may need to be added to the OP, which includes finding a Transparent background for the Hero characters or something (going to shrink the image down later, its a bit too big)
I wouldn't call it crappy lol. Good job at turning this into a pretty good guide of sorts.
well for lib vs stil the answer is stil even on sword.. pa damage is too good and ssa can make it counter as hard or harder than liberate (slightly but its there) as for the units austere 13* would be the top dog for hr right now 120 hp 13pp 60 atk 5% all res 2nd highest base def
i have questions,
- how does S6 Add: Heroic Howl works? is it the same like in Demonia potential? or stronger/weaker?
- can you restore hero boost with Evasion Training (it's S4 weapon iirc)?
saw some people putting that Evasion Training and spamming BNS recently
-S6: Heroic Howl is like having Demonia's effect but without the weapon, it's the same thing and they don't stack
-idk about Evasion Training, I've never used it and since TMG's had it's counter buff I suppose it works? I assume it procs counter from that skill? I can't say much about it, obviously if they're just doing the non counter version they're uhh being bad but overall I'd like to think not spamming those counters with that SSA would be more efficient than doing TMG counters on everything. Could be wrong but I don't use TMGs much outside specific moments for counter spam
I guess do it if you want, I have no idea how efficient that would be over Sword use and I don't aim to make gear to try and make it work. gl
ah ok, mixup then for me. what I last remembered. I just don't want to drop Wise Skill for it which is why I don't personally use it.
thank you for the numbers, i guess it's better than nothing in my S6 slot
i tried to affix with it in my weapons, Sword and TMG seems not worth it with the evasion training, while in Talis it's pretty good for gear generation
Brightness End was great in Ep 5 when mobs had low HP. Brightness End is a poopoo PP sink in late Episode 6. They aren't wrong that Hr is bad at mobbing. You CAN mob with the class, but it's worse at mobbing than other classes. It's something that could use a rework. At least the PP investment should be changed.
yes I know and well aware of the PP/Dmg could be better on it (which I don't know why you bothered to quote me on something I said 3 months ago) but compared to BNS spamming on literally everything, I beg to differ that BE would be any worse being spammed and chained with normals.
Why are people still hating on BNS? Since the TMG buffs, Brand New Star now has better mobbing DPS than Brightness End, while also having more than twice the PP efficiency. Final Storm now has almost the same DPS as Brightness End, while again having more than twice the PP efficiency (although covering a smaller circular AoE).
Furthermore, there are also the Brand New Star counters, which are now Hero's greatest DPS attack outside of finishers. While you can't do those as easily in mobbing situations as you can when fighting bosses, they are still possible to do.
In my opinion, sword is feeling lacking these days compared to what TMG offers. Moment Trick is also similar DPS to Rising+Rising+normal combos (slightly lower than the one air slash combos, slightly higher than the tap combos), while being much easier to use and having much better range. I'd say it's TMG > Sword > Talis now.
As someone who also thinks BNS and Final Storm are better for mobbing than sword, probably because people still try to use it as single target dps. Also, apparently enemies in UH have higher ranged resistance, but as far as I know that was specifically the head-shot multiplier, which is still 20% anyway.
EDIT: Looking at the enemy resistance charts, it does seem like a few bosses have pretty notable ranged and tech resistance, but that's not really relevant in the context of mobbing. The only thing I saw about UH was specifically about weakpoint multipliers being 1.2x, and most trash mobs that aren't meant to be innately tanky don't usually have notable resistance specifically to ranged or tech damage.
Attachment 42380
Image looks small...did I do it right?
Hero buffs looking really really good. Overall damage increase along with added leniency.
in a dm
FlaocToday at 6:37 PM
ill make this easy.. bns has no range besides line and sword still has its normals to use as well.. final storm lacks range but i guess potentially good if in range but not having supplemental normals still hurts tmg even if brightness damage isnt the best. brightness still has range advantage and knockdowns.. super clustered up means even rising can now be used as a mobbing tool.. the headshot multi just hurts for uh for final storm even though the damage is there.. just having no supplementary normal is actual aids and i been skipping around bns because i already said it lacks real mobbing range besides piercing.. range too thin and counter bns range is ultra thin to the point where its almost strictly single target.. also sword normal is comparable to bns and will be moreso once we get primordial darkness wep and re access to calming
with that dm out of the way
sword>tmg>talis overall still tmg wins on counter heavy bosses though.
also swords gap close game wins easily for mobs.. and when the mobbing becomes too spread out or inevitably single target sword once again wins. yes 40 pp brightness hurts but final storm range is lackluster to get all 3 hits in so its situational rather than main mobbing tool and sword can use rather effective normals to supplement. also this is why it helps to have a reload tmg with natural regen ssa. austere with pb = stil > austere no pb > the rest of the s1-s3 tmgs (stil bis reloading but only for those truly dedicated to hr)
somehow i missed this
http://pso2.jp/players/news/26569/
ヒーローブースト:威力上昇量上限「60%→80%」および、威力減少量「30%→20%(緩 和)
HB goes from max 60% -> 80%, Power Reduct from 30% -> 20% (I think this is when you get hit, not the thres)
ヒーローカウンター:カウンター時のヒーローブースト威力上昇量「10%→20%」
Hero Counters regain HB from 10% -> 20%
ウィークアタッククリティカル:クリティカル率上昇量「60%→150%
Weak Attack Crit from 60% -> 150%
Expecting a surge in S4 Skilled Balance which uhh not sure thats a good thing
Yeah it is. In a recent feedback they said the userbase had the most beef with hero boost, and I guess this is their response to that. It's unsaid when these buffs will take place, either when the new EQ comes out or when luster is released I'd wager.
Yeah definitely! The new weapon series coming out support an extra S4 as well which gives hero some choices (skilled balance, evasive training, calming intent). I just wonder if the weapon's buff will carry over if you switch weapons. I'm super interested in the results, if only it didn't feel so far away. :-(
So glad people finally got through to Sega, Hero Boost had been FUBAR so long and the first improvement made such little difference it was near pointless.
I'm really hyped for Hero no longer being extremely frustrating just because I couldn't see every enemy that is off screen and was farting attacks in my general direction.
And yeah, spare me the bs gitgud comments because they are irrelevant, i's not a matter of dps but it's a matter of always being under pressure when every single hit greatly reduces dps and you can easily get hit rapidly from off screen so if you lose 60% at once or 30% and then half a second later another 30% makes little difference.
Does S4:Calming Intent affect Hero Step Counters?
With this buff, you might actually do a Skilled balance build on a sub sword built for stuns, altho if your main Sword is cras, it would probably be pointless xD.
It does, on top of normal 3 DPS for Sword and Talis being relatively high
Is S4:Raising Pursuit a good choice? Or should I just go for Calming intent
I main sword
Hero Boost
-Increased the Max Power to 80%.
-Decreased the Power Loss on taking damage to 20%.
Hero Counter
-Increased the Power regained upon successful counter to 20%.
Weak Attack Critica
-Increased the Critical Rate to 150%.
My weeklies get 20% stronger
unfortunately its 12.5% despite the boost increase by 20%
Raising Pursuit is always good. Calming Intent is also pretty good for hr but tbh I find myself not using many normals these days because of the Rising Slash buff a while back.
Sword normals aren't that great for mobbing unless the occasionally well timed 3rd normal between rising slashes (has some aoe) and brightness ends and both dps combos using 3rd normal are unreliable and with the Rising Slash buff can easily drop below Rising Slash's dps.
In all cases however, Raising Pursuit adds damage from every attack with sword, not just one you don't use that often.
For talis and tmg it's about the same, normals have their use but you will always do more damage with Raising Pursuit.
So I decided to give the Adel weapons a shot since I don't have anything better for Hr. They give you a pretty massive increase to hero time duration. To the point that I'd say it's actually worth turning it on purely for the atk buff, even if you aren't about to reach a chance for burst damage.
According to the Swiki, you literally double your total time in hero Time using Adel weapons. I was able to go the full 90s countering everything of Sodam, so that whole halving Hero gauge usage is really good in that regard. Same for Hero Refresh cost being cut in half. While not helping that CD, you can easily pop a Refresh for the 45, then Time for 60-100 seconds depending on your dodging.
It is definitely an amazing weapon to throw to an Alt, but can't say I'm certain how it squares up with otherweapons on the high end of 15s.
essentially these weapons came a little too late, had these released way sooner (replaced Demonia etc) then they would have had their time to shine. They were basically camo's on release. however, if for some reason you refuse to use Ayer for alts, I guess this is a good alternative. Phantom weapons are essentially the worst vs Hr/Et's weapons. Hr/Et's weapons aren't bad, just theres better choices already out there