PSO vs PSU observations, hopes for the new Phantasy Star

[Jife_Jifremok]

With all the PSO vs PSU threads out there (and a number that I've probably missed), correct me if I'm wrong but the general concensus seems to be that PSO's world and atmosphere are better but PSU's gameplay is better. Now, wouldn't we then agree that if the next Phantasy Star were to have both a good world and atmosphere and good gameplay, it would completely kick the ass of PSO and PSU? (Of course there's more to it than that, like how PSO's weapons have unique functions and PSU has better drop rates, etc, but I'll get into that later when I feel like posting about it and have time to do so.)

Despite my overall lack of faith in all things post-Saturn Sega, I can't help but hope that they realize the strengths and shortcomings of both games, merge the strengths of the games together and consider both games' shortcomings to make the next Phantasy the ultimate (for the time being).

For instance, the overall mood of the games. PSO has this more relaxed "exploration" feel to it, the dynamic music adding to the experience and there's no need to kill every single monster. PSU's more about "let's go kick those SEED offa this planet" than exploration, and the GUARDIANS dock your pay if you don't kill every last creature (and this kinda makes sense, since you probably don't want some SEED-forms you didn't bother to destroy starting to run amok in some civilian sector---or do you?). There's no ambient music, but you're on an extermination mission so this makes sense. However, at the very core of things, PSO's Forest really isn't all that different from Plains Overlord if you ignore the obvious gameplay, environment and enemy differences. You're still required to unlock doors by killing monsters, still traveling by "blocks", still fighting a boss in a big room at the end. The only thing setting the PSO exploration mood or the PSU mission mood is the music.

I find that there's nothing inherently wrong with having exploration or missions. But, PSU's mission style is definitely missing something...like, perhaps, an actual missiony feel, something to diffrentiate it from being just a PSO-like exploration expedition.

This leads me to conclude that the next Phantasy Star should have both PSO-ish exploration and PSU-esque extermination. What I mean is, have a lot of PSO-esque "free run" areas like you've had in PSO, free from being ranked and evaluated. But in addition to this, have a lot of PSU-esque missions VASTLY different from the normal "free-run" areas. I mean MISSIONS. Having different kinds of objectives, sometimes multiple objectives, sometimes having a time limit. Rankings based on performance in specific criteria depending on the objectives (like time taken, damage to protectees, enemies destroyed, damage done to self, etc). Oh, and no ability to return to town/base/shop, so you'd better be properly supplied and able to use them carefully! (Actually, it's kinda like PSU's current story missions...except I'm envisioning objectives that don't suck. )

I'd post more, but I'm short on time for now. I have dreams of a combat system that would iron out everything that's wrong with PSU's combat (and believe me, there's a lot), the items, and some other things. But I'll save that for later. Maybe I'll have better wording by then.

[Yunfa]

woa not another "what I think about the future of PSU," Im sorry, but it's getting redundant. Nice sig tho.

[icewyrm]

All of your points beg the question, what plans are currently in place for the phantasy star franchise? After a bit of quick googling, I couldn't find any interviews, rumor posts or the like indicating any kind of future ps plans asides from the rather cheesy looking psp port. To create a game that satisfies your conditions, first requires the making of a game.

[Zael]

The only observation I have of that subject is that every god damn topic about it is stupid.

[DEM_CIG]

Im tired of this topics. *YAWN*

[Andy1423]

Then don't post here kids.
.................................................. .


I totally agree with you.

PSO has this more relaxed "exploration" feel to it, the dynamic music adding to the experience

To me, the biggest part about PSU that hinders the imagination is the overall theme of PSU. It's a very dull mixed with a slight bit of cartoonyness. I find this to be the most contrasting element in PSU vs PSO. The futuristic world that is PSO didn't quite make a perfect translation as far as style goes. PSU has a lot of room to "highten" it's futuristic perception.

If you take for instance the Shinowa Hidoki(PSU) vs Sinow Beat(PSO) my point is clearly illustrated. The Shinowa has a more steam punk /ancient look and style. The Sinoa Beat had a very robotic ninja/ robot assassin type feel. One feels modern(pso version) and the other(psu version) feels ancient.

If all lobbies, bases/outposts, and dungeons received a face-lift towards the future(...no pun intended …) then I believe that “exploration[al]” atmosphere will become a little more focused. Of course this also applies to the music, which is certainly key to the atmospheric equation. Not all the music is bad, some of it I absolutely love (sleeping warriors), but yet again the music doesn’t necessarily match the futuristic theme as well. Anyone who hasn’t heard the difference, ( click here http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/17/music_discs/ ) I guess if I had to sum up what it is about the music I would say “It’s not enough Fantasy and a lot less Star.” By that I mean it needs more dreamy/epic tunes that are (you guessed it) more space frontier/futuristic.

Where are the space ships? Where are the multiple types of robots, not re-skins?

As far as game play goes………….(well I won’t get too much into this)

Drops:::::

PSO had a lot, which in tern gave everyone max meseta very quick, but the rares were RARE to say the least.

PSU has a better value of meseta, but NORMAL items do not drop as much as they should. However the rare drop rates are not too bad.

I think overall they should reconsider how enemies drop items. I think that 9* star weapons should NOT be considered RARE. And in that cases, enemies should have a better chance to drop a weapon based off of the star rarity, but also keeping brand consistency. Also OVERALL LESS BOARDS AND MORE MADE WEPS.

EX….
Golmoro Drops twin daggers.
Lvl 40-49 drops twin ripper, Lvl 50-59 drops last survivor, Lvl 60-69 drops [B] Ryo-misaki
Level brackets the specific type of weapon able to drop, I think they should free it up like so….

LIKE THIS

Golmoro Drops Dagger, Knife, Stinger, Sucker, Ripper, Survivor, Ryo-misaki.

Lvl only matters to the highest lvl except rares(by this I mean S rank and above) So the lvl 52 Golmoro can drop at max item rarity a 6* Last Survivour, however it also can drop 5* ripper, 4* sucker, 3* stinger, 2* knife, and 1* Dagger. The lower the rarity the lower higher chance it might drop. You might end the mission with only 4* and 5* daggers, but they could have a good %, thus value, or you could just sell them and earn money for you time slaying those creatures.

[goaferboy]

One thing I think that makes PSO more about exploration and PSU more about extermination is the storyline. In PSO, Pioneer 2 was sent after pioneer 1 went a bit FUBAR. So in PSO your actually there to explore and find out what happened.

In PSU, the planets are all established and there aren't really any uncharted areas.


Also in PSU, there isnt any hints of a story within the missions. I remember the missions in PSO being more "missioney" ie there was actually a bit of a story to the missions. I remember having to find a robot in the forest for example. In PSU, the closest thing you get to that is having to find a certain amount of discs. And even then, you could finish the level without actually having any of the discs.

I think the next PS game needs bigger maps. Or at least ones that take longer. Or some decent sort of story to them, not just show up, go to the end of block X and kill some stuff on the way. Actual objectives would be a plus.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: goaferboy on 2008-03-26 09:52 ]</font>

[Jife_Jifremok]

On 2008-03-26 06:14, icewyrm wrote:
All of your points beg the question, what plans are currently in place for the phantasy star franchise? After a bit of quick googling, I couldn't find any interviews, rumor posts or the like indicating any kind of future ps plans asides from the rather cheesy looking psp port. To create a game that satisfies your conditions, first requires the making of a game.

They plan to keep PSU alive for at least a few more years. I'm just looking beyond that because the present sucks, that's all. I'm looking forward to a time when I'll once again have hope for Phantasy Star, like I did when I first started seeing videos of PSU.

On 2008-03-26 06:36, Zael wrote:
The only observation I have of that subject is that every god damn topic about it is stupid.

The PSO vs PSU aspect of this thread is really more to help with explaining what I'm hoping to see far into the future than to display fanboyism of one Phantasy Star over another. (You'll find me bashing both since they lack in the gameplay department.) Putting the best things about both games together should, I hope, make the ultimate Phantasy Star.

On 2008-03-26 08:40, Andy1423 wrote:

PSO has this more relaxed "exploration" feel to it, the dynamic music adding to the experience

To me, the biggest part about PSU that hinders the imagination is the overall theme of PSU. It's a very dull mixed with a slight bit of cartoonyness. I find this to be the most contrasting element in PSU vs PSO. The futuristic world that is PSO didn't quite make a perfect translation as far as style goes. PSU has a lot of room to "highten" it's futuristic perception.

If you take for instance the Shinowa Hidoki(PSU) vs Sinow Beat(PSO) my point is clearly illustrated. The Shinowa has a more steam punk /ancient look and style. The Sinoa Beat had a very robotic ninja/ robot assassin type feel. One feels modern(pso version) and the other(psu version) feels ancient.

If all lobbies, bases/outposts, and dungeons received a face-lift towards the future(...no pun intended …) then I believe that “exploration[al]” atmosphere will become a little more focused. Of course this also applies to the music, which is certainly key to the atmospheric equation. Not all the music is bad, some of it I absolutely love (sleeping warriors), but yet again the music doesn’t necessarily match the futuristic theme as well. Anyone who hasn’t heard the difference, ( click here http://www.pso-world.com/items/psu/17/music_discs/ ) I guess if I had to sum up what it is about the music I would say “It’s not enough Fantasy and a lot less Star.” By that I mean it needs more dreamy/epic tunes that are (you guessed it) more space frontier/futuristic.

Where are the space ships? Where are the multiple types of robots, not re-skins?

As far as game play goes………….(well I won’t get too much into this)

Drops:::::

PSO had a lot, which in tern gave everyone max meseta very quick, but the rares were RARE to say the least.

PSU has a better value of meseta, but NORMAL items do not drop as much as they should. However the rare drop rates are not too bad.

I think overall they should reconsider how enemies drop items. I think that 9* star weapons should NOT be considered RARE. And in that cases, enemies should have a better chance to drop a weapon based off of the star rarity, but also keeping brand consistency. Also OVERALL LESS BOARDS AND MORE MADE WEPS.

EX….
Golmoro Drops twin daggers.
Lvl 40-49 drops twin ripper, Lvl 50-59 drops last survivor, Lvl 60-69 drops b Ryo-misaki
Level brackets the specific type of weapon able to drop, I think they should free it up like so….

LIKE THIS

Golmoro Drops Dagger, Knife, Stinger, Sucker, Ripper, Survivor, Ryo-misaki.

Lvl only matters to the highest lvl except rares(by this I mean S rank and above) So the lvl 52 Golmoro can drop at max item rarity a 6* Last Survivour, however it also can drop 5* ripper, 4* sucker, 3* stinger, 2* knife, and 1* Dagger. The lower the rarity the lower higher chance it might drop. You might end the mission with only 4* and 5* daggers, but they could have a good %, thus value, or you could just sell them and earn money for you time slaying those creatures.

I hadn't even thought about how much PSU was lacking in the sci-fi department or just how bland it was when I wrote this. I forget what them Shinow robots look like though. But, yeah. PSU definitely fell short. As far as music goes, I need only think about the title screens of both games and immediately think of PSO as having more of a sci-fi fantasy feel. Not all of pSU's music is that bad, I personally find the desert theme and much of Neudaiz's music very fitting. The kill-em-all mentality still remains though, and goaferboy hit the nail on the head as to why.

For items...well I have a very different view on items, which I'll put in a different post. What you posted on the daggers seems like a pretty good idea though.

On 2008-03-26 09:48, goaferboy wrote:
One thing I think that makes PSO more about exploration and PSU more about extermination is the storyline. In PSO, Pioneer 2 was sent after pioneer 1 went a bit FUBAR. So in PSO your actually there to explore and find out what happened.

In PSU, the planets are all established and there aren't really any uncharted areas.

Also in PSU, there isnt any hints of a story within the missions. I remember the missions in PSO being more "missioney" ie there was actually a bit of a story to the missions. I remember having to find a robot in the forest for example. In PSU, the closest thing you get to that is having to find a certain amount of discs. And even then, you could finish the level without actually having any of the discs.

I think the next PS game needs bigger maps. Or at least ones that take longer. Or some decent sort of story to them, not just show up, go to the end of block X and kill some stuff on the way. Actual objectives would be a plus.</font>

Thanks for reinforcing my points and wording them better. Quoted since it looks better than my wall of text.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jife_Jifremok on 2008-03-26 20:15 ]</font>

[Xefi]

On 2008-03-26 05:57, Jife_Jifremok wrote:
correct me if I'm wrong but the general concensus seems to be that PSO's world and atmosphere are better but PSU's gameplay is better.

Interesting. I know that PSO have a much better enviroments due to the fact that they are small in size and easy to navigate. PSU environments, however, are mostly bland and broad enough that you dont really care (ST is slowly improving on the stages now, i am just hoping it will only get better later on).
As for gameplay, PSO have the better mechanic and style, but lack mobility at time: hit and then move and then run, basically, the combat system was slow. But in PSU, the battle system was better because you can actually move faster and hit and run at the same time.
As of now, PSU is still lacking in certain categories (environments, gliches, maybe more improvement on battle like guns improvement system and etc.), but give it some more time for it to developed. I guess that is all we can do right now is to give ideas to improve the game, but I am very certain PSU will improve massively later on. Right now, it is not enough to blow us away.

[Mewnie]

I'd talked with this with some friends a bit ago...

I'd like to see something more like how Guild Wars handles it's instanced areas.

They're both similar, in they have public lobbies where you can shop/chat/spam and instances for when you team up for some action.
So you'd have a whole planet to explore, with side areas for quests/missions/dungeons.

It'd bring back the feeling of exploring a whole system, instead of a few sporadic locations on the map.