Every single PA maxed?

[Yusaku_Kudou]

Love being Gunmaster, but I only have one rifle PA above 41 and two above 31... rest are in the teens or lower lol. Pretty much just use shotgun (all but inga above 41), Rising Prism (47), and my Guld & Milla. I actually have no PA on any character at 50. I switch back to the advanced classes a lot and use my already-capped LV40 PAs just because I enjoy them... like Assault Crush, Yak Zagenga, Spiral Dance, Gravity Break...

[Shou]

I just blame Sonic Team for nerfing techers so badly, especially when the elemental %'s of wands, rods, and tech-mags don't get anywhere NEAR 50%, iirc.

Actually, its techs in general that are so weak. Techs have a built-in % so if you have lvl 50 techs, they are all at least 50% in element. The mag, wand and rod % are added to the total % of a tech. That just goes to show, even further, how horribly weak techs are right now if they have ABOVE 50% element and do that kind of damage output.

If I am in a really bad party I can do some pretty decent damage compared to the other members.

[Powder Keg]

Actually, its techs in general that are so weak. Techs have a built-in % so if you have lvl 50 techs, they are all at least 50% in element. The mag, wand and rod % are added to the total % of a tech. That just goes to show, even further, how horribly weak techs are right now if they have ABOVE 50% element and do that kind of damage output.

If I am in a really bad party I can do some pretty decent damage compared to the other members.

It's more of a challenge to be a force-type though, especially MF. I thought that's what everyone wanted.

[desturel]

Why would a fortetecher use noszonde on Dimma? Raisei-sou and Raisei-shiki both outdamage noszonde. You seem to forget that fortetecher has other options. Masterforce does not.

Add in plasma hit to that list of "things that out damage noszonde that a Fortetecher can use".

[Keilyn]

You still havent proven how fortetechers outdamage a masterforce with techs...when you have a statement saying you have done it with "lower than level 40 techs"

That and I clearly state that this was based off of lower than level 40 techs.

I haven't replied because when you choose to throw techs out the window from a primary teching class...it simply shows that your dependency to bullets should have made you choose a gunner type or hybrid type instead of a pure techer oriented type (hell...FT even gets a bonus on PP saved from techs being used)...

If I wanted bows, cards and guns...as a measure to when not using techs, I wouldn't chose Fortetecher for it :P

[Tetsaru]

It's more of a challenge to be a force-type though, especially MF. I thought that's what everyone wanted.

I'm sorry, but making a class much worse off than the others does NOT constitute challenge. That's called a lack of proper job/class balancing. I agree that magic users in general, whatever RPG you play, should be physically frail, BUT if their magic doesn't deal significant enough opposite-element damage to something compared to a melee or gun weapon, or doesn't do something COMPLETELY unique that no other class can do, then something is very wrong. Technics run off of a completely different stat, for Christ's sake; their damage output should be on a COMPLETELY different scale, especially if they're having to consume more PP, their attacks are SLOWER, and you have to decide split-second which spell to use for which range, which element, etc.

Monsters that can only be killed in a certain way, or finding your way out of a labyrinth-like area with traps at every turn before time runs out, or fighting off a really badass boss that simply can't be beaten unless you have a full party that cooperates together, so you can earn some of the rarest and best equipment in the game for your class?? THAT'S challenge.

Right now, I don't see ANY such thing in PSU, and that bugged me to the point where I finally just decided to quit because I wasn't being entertained with anything to really test myself. Sure, you can do time attack runs, or gimp yourself by using C-rank equipment or something, but you shouldn't have to resort to that to make the game challenging - the game should PROVIDE that for you in the first place. If the game wanted you to do time attack runs, it should give you an option to do so, and reward you accordingly based on how well you did. Hell, some of the rewards could be unique, like faster attack animations specifically for the class you used, rather than binding it to specific classes by default. Likewise, a "challenge mode" (lol) of sorts could also be implemented. You could do a certain level over again, like you do all the time on PSU, but you could only use C rank equipment, or couldn't use any opposite-element attacks on the enemies, etc; and if you beat each challenge - BAM, another unique reward that's yours and YOURS ONLY. You shouldn't be able to trade it to some noob who never accomplished the same feat, imo (another thing that bugged me about PSU).

If Sonic Team would just implement something similar to my examples in PSU, you wouldn't have to constantly lolzergspam the hell out of a mission just for one item, and you wouldn't get so bored of that particular mission all the time. PSO (Episode I, anyway) accomplished this well by only utilizing FOUR AREAS, but gave you the option of what missions to undertake, so the gameplay was kept fresh and interesting, while still keeping the player in a familiar environment. I don't see why PSU had to take this simple concept away.

[Waki Miko Syamemaru!]

Every single PA maxed? God damn you gotta be one bored person or EXTREMELY dedicated to do something like that. I for one wouldn't.

[Powder Keg]

I'm sorry, but making a class much worse off than the others does NOT constitute challenge. That's called a lack of proper job/class balancing. I agree that magic users in general, whatever RPG you play, should be physically frail, BUT if their magic doesn't deal significant enough opposite-element damage to something compared to a melee or gun weapon, or doesn't do something COMPLETELY unique that no other class can do, then something is very wrong. Technics run off of a completely different stat, for Christ's sake; their damage output should be on a COMPLETELY different scale, especially if they're having to consume more PP, their attacks are SLOWER, and you have to decide split-second which spell to use for which range, which element, etc.

Monsters that can only be killed in a certain way, or finding your way out of a labyrinth-like area with traps at every turn before time runs out, or fighting off a really badass boss that simply can't be beaten unless you have a full party that cooperates together, so you can earn some of the rarest and best equipment in the game for your class?? THAT'S challenge.

Right now, I don't see ANY such thing in PSU, and that bugged me to the point where I finally just decided to quit because I wasn't being entertained with anything to really test myself. Sure, you can do time attack runs, or gimp yourself by using C-rank equipment or something, but you shouldn't have to resort to that to make the game challenging - the game should PROVIDE that for you in the first place. If the game wanted you to do time attack runs, it should give you an option to do so, and reward you accordingly based on how well you did. Hell, some of the rewards could be unique, like faster attack animations specifically for the class you used, rather than binding it to specific classes by default. Likewise, a "challenge mode" (lol) of sorts could also be implemented. You could do a certain level over again, like you do all the time on PSU, but you could only use C rank equipment, or couldn't use any opposite-element attacks on the enemies, etc; and if you beat each challenge - BAM, another unique reward that's yours and YOURS ONLY. You shouldn't be able to trade it to some noob who never accomplished the same feat, imo (another thing that bugged me about PSU).

If Sonic Team would just implement something similar to my examples in PSU, you wouldn't have to constantly lolzergspam the hell out of a mission just for one item, and you wouldn't get so bored of that particular mission all the time. PSO (Episode I, anyway) accomplished this well by only utilizing FOUR AREAS, but gave you the option of what missions to undertake, so the gameplay was kept fresh and interesting, while still keeping the player in a familiar environment. I don't see why PSU had to take this simple concept away.

Despite everything you just said, it's still a challenge regardless...how is it not? It's not like something you're artificially creating (which I agree is a stupid way to make a challenge, by the way)

[Tetsaru]

Despite everything you just said, it's still a challenge regardless...how is it not? It's not like something you're artificially creating (which I agree is a stupid way to make a challenge, by the way)

I guess so, but not in the proper context of good game design, I'd say. I think "hindrance" would be a better word.

I just think that if a game uses some sort of race, class, or job system (and a shitload of RPG's do), then each has to have specific pros and cons to prevent one from being "better" than all the others. Also, there must be enough significant differences between each job/class/race to give players options to fit their playing style. It just defeats the purpose of having such a system to begin with if there isn't a way to keep everything equal overall. That's why you see so many Beasts and Casts on PSU because 1 - they both have race-specific abilities while Humans and Newmans don't, and 2 - their stats are more geared towards melee and ranged classes, which PSU as a whole greatly favors.

If I had to divide pros and cons up for the 3 different fighting styles in PSU, I would do so as such:

Melee

Pros: Deals the most amount of damage to enemies overall, most survivable, most PA's are easy to level up

Cons: Has to get in close to fight in most scenarios, heavy reliance on extensive PA combos and high-% weapons for damage output, status effects are on a per-weapon basis

Ranged

Pros: Can attack effectively from any distance, sticks status effects easily, damage output rivals that of melee classes with some weapons/scenarios, and elemental %'s increase with PA level

Cons: Heavy reliance on individual bullet PA's which take much longer to level, limited options against bullet-resistant enemies

Techers

Pros: Technics are guaranteed to hit, use of completely different stats for calculating damage (although this is questionable in terms of monster techs vs. players), able to inflict status effects, able to use powerful support magic on party members

Cons: Like Rangers, a heavy reliance on individual PA's that take a while to level, smaller weapon selection, lower DPS overall compared to Melee and Rangers and the use of a different stat has little effect, Regrants is the only offensive light-element tech (and it's situational), frailty to most attacks, some technics seem "missing" (no Damzonde, Gimegid, MST/TP debuff tech, Dizas and Rentis not released yet, etc.), Regrants and Megiverse are delayed in their attacks vs. their animations, Ra- and Gi- techs only hit once on enemies with multiple hit-boxes, lack of high elemental % on weapons

I could probably think of many more to add to that list, but the "challenges," as you call them, that techers face compared to melee and ranger classes is just so much more apparent that it's hard to ignore.

[fayt6]

maybe psp2 would be better? and we can all quite psu an move to psp2?