Fire EX traps - bug fix?

[Arika]

oh yeah, PSU still have players hold 10 EX traps. that is a lot.

IN PSPo2, each EX traps does stronger damage. so may be you will like that.
However, you can only hold 4x of each kind, and no more freeze EX.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

I see those kinda too damaging too, but, for me it's fair since you can only carry 10 of those traps and many strong enemies are fireproof, like Carriguines, or simply, bosses.

As far as I remember, the only non-burnable creatures are:
all bosses,
all Machines, (except 3 BUG types),
all Stateria (except Rygutass),
SEED-Ardite,
Rappy Gugg, Rappy Igg,
fire contaminated Gol Dolva (but not regular Gol Dolva),
the Vol brothers, and Karl F. Howzer.

Intuitively, only machine-like creatures, giant rappys, and bosses are non-burnable. Every other free mission creature is burnable. Carriguines were not supposed to be fire proof. Bosses are intended to be immune to status effects. Machines generally have low stamina. The few Stateria and Mutant Rappys are intended to be midboss tier and light only. Many large, high HP creatures are burnable and flinchable. This includes creatures with HP modifiers of 650%, 630%, 600%, 500% and many with 400%. 1100% when SEED-Magashi returns.

Supportive damage doesn't mean "to do a little damage to help the others to kill faster" only, it can mean "to clean thee room out of trash mob so the big ones are exposed".

Damage over time is percentage based. Generally, it does more damage to big mobs than trash mobs. In this way, it is an equalizer. A Gol Dolva or Kagajibari losing 20% of their health is significant. Pannons losing 20% of their health is not as significant. At reasonable levels, it creates balanced diminished returns for creature HP modifiers. This percentage based scaling is used by debuffs.

With this I compare EX traps with whips, maybe you won't take easily a Carriguine with one, but you can clean a mob of any number in not much time with a good one. Whips are supposed to be supportive damage too, and they do wonders on bosses.

Whips have weapons qualities. Weapons have statistic based checks and balances. Most whips are aided by Acrotecher speed or Wartecher ATP and skill limits. I think three whips add support damage on top of that. Weapons scale, as seen by Fortetecher whip usage and hit box count. Not all whips are "a good one" whereas all Burn Trap EXs are generally the same. Weapons scale very much by item statistics, player statistics, enemy statistics and random variance. Burn Trap EXs bypass many statistics.

I compare damage over time with other status effects, like debuffs and Giresta. HP auto recovery is like a gradual HP buff. Damage over time is like a gradual HP debuff. In my opinion, a Protrancer's primary source of damage would be their weapons. Traps and their status effects are for support.

[SolomonGrundy]

As far as I remember, the only non-burnable creatures are:
all bosses,
all Machines, (except 3 BUG types),
all Stateria (except Rygutass),
SEED-Ardite,
Rappy Gugg, Rappy Igg,
fire contaminated Gol Dolva (but not regular Gol Dolva),
the Vol brothers, and Karl F. Howzer.

Carriguines were not supposed to be fire proof.

uh, that is a LOT of enemies. And carraguines ARE immune, even if they were not supposed to be. If the point you were trying to make is that only a few enemies are exluded, you did not make it.

Instead you made the point that a more than fair number of enemies are excluded.

Also, your point on whips did not answer the issue tht was raised - namely - while whips are supposedly for support, they are signficant damage dealers. That they are balanced by item statistics, player statistics, enemy statistics and random variance was not the question.

I would argue that EX traps, including fire EX traps are also balanced: Only PTs can used EX traps. You can only carry a limited amount, damage (not DOT, but the trap damage itself) is tied to character level, the area of effect is fixed, and as you point out: the DoT is not valuable for "trash mobs" and the DoT has a number of enemies are immune to the effect.

[Zoamel_Gustav]

uh, that is a LOT of enemies. And carraguines ARE immune, even if they were not supposed to be. If the point you were trying to make is that only a few enemies are exluded, you did not make it.

Instead you made the point that a more than fair number of enemies are excluded.

I was making counter points to my own points, which were then addressed. I compared the quantity and quality of burnable and nonburnable creatures. The context was the paragraph that immediately followed.

Intuitively, only machine-like creatures, giant rappys, and bosses are non-burnable. Every other free mission creature is burnable. Carriguines were not supposed to be fire proof. Bosses are intended to be immune to status effects. Machines generally have low stamina. The few Stateria and Mutant Rappys are intended to be midboss tier and light only. Many large, high HP creatures are burnable and flinchable. This includes creatures with HP modifiers of 650%, 630%, 600%, 500% and many with 400%. 1100% when SEED-Magashi returns.

The majority of creatures are burnable. Nonburnable: 12 bosses, 11 Machines, 1 rare Machine, 3 Stateria, 2 rare Slateria, 1 Machine SEED form, 1 Carriguine, 1 Mutant Rappy, 1 rare Mutant Rappy, half a Gol Dova (event only), 3 Vol Brothers (story only) and Howzer (story only). Being generous, that's 37.5 out of 138, which is about 27%. That is not a lot of enemies. Most of those are bosses or mid bosses. The only nonburnable creatures of significant encounter rate are the seven quadrupedal robots. The minority of creatures that are not burnable are easily identified by their boss-like qualities or machine-like qualities. Those same machine-like qualities cause a trend of low stamina. Low stamina nonburnable creatures are more vulnerable to the other status effects.

Also, your point on whips did not answer the issue tht was raised - namely - while whips are supposedly for support, they are signficant damage dealers. That they are balanced by item statistics, player statistics, enemy statistics and random variance was not the question.

Comparing apples and oranges. I disagree with the question's comparison itself. Damage over time has more in common with debuffs then to weapons. The mechanics are different, the degrees of support are incommensurable. The bypassing of many statistics is a significant advantage which must be balanced by significant disadvantages. Weapons generally are intended to deal more damage than traps. Whips generally are intended to deal more damage than trap EXs.

I would argue that EX traps, including fire EX traps are also balanced:

Burn Trap EXs currently or after doubling the burn duration? If one is balanced, the other is not. In my opinion, Burn Trap EX are to be on par with Stun Trap EXs and weaker than Freeze Trap EXs.

damage (not DOT, but the trap damage itself) is tied to character level, ... and as you point out: the DoT is not valuable for "trash mobs"

Many other abilities are tied to many other statistics in addition to character level. I have little objection to the damage dealt by the trap EX itself. My contribution of "Burn Crusher Trap EX'" is based on that. The damage dealt by the trap EX itself is valuable to low HP creatures. Fixed scale damage and percentage scale damage are different.

and the DoT has a number of enemies are immune to the effect.

The quality of the minority of creatures that are immune to burn are that of the seven, low stamina, quadrupedal robot reskins and a few, less encountered, intentionally mid boss tier creatures.