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  1. #1

    Default PSO or PSU-styled Class System

    There's been discussion here and there on this subject in different threads. Lets consolidate some discussion in one thread dedicated to it.

    I've played every Phantasy Star game to date, from PSI to PS:P2.

    PSO's rigid class/race system could not be copy and pasted (in my opinion) to a game over a decade later without same changes. With the old system there were some gender restriction issues. To be a newman hunter you had to be female for example. Some classes were simply better than others, HUmars were fairly behind the other hunters. Its not all bad though; this rigid system actually meant that class/race combos were different versus PSU's only difference being l stat differences. In some cases these differences in PSU were minor and even fixable with equipment. Another pro of PSO's system was its simplicity with 3 classes. While there were limitations in this system, generally it worked great.

    PSU's class system alluded to complete costumization. You could create any combination between the 4 races, 2 genders, and the ~15 classes. With all of these combination, there were a few that were significantly overpowered and plenty that were simply worse than others. I played a female beast Wartecher in PSU for the majority of it and people would comment that I "was good for a wartecher". Still, usefulness and damage output of that class/combo was behind others. Tech limits and efficiencies were class specific in PSU unlike PSO's way of making the specific class/race/gender combos stand out from each other. Some balancing could have helped this but things never really got better for some classes, like my Wartecher.

    PSP2 is notable in that it took the PSU's class system and reduced redundancy. At the same time, the ability to customize a class was significantly increased. A con of this in my opinion was again, some customization options were simply bad or overpowered. Sega giving us more options should also come with more active balancing attempts.

    So, PSO had rigid, limited class options while PSU had plenty of class options with many of them being crap. Each had pros and cons, I feel the best way to go would be to combine them in someway.

    I believe that PSO's system were classes each had their own reason to be was strongest and should be the base of PSO2's class system. Customization options could be implemented by maybe allowing class change down the line, some choice in efficiencies like in PSP2 and make more class combinations available but give them an actual purpose.

    My system:

    Start by choosing one of the 3 basic roles.
    *Hunter - melee
    *Ranger - ranged and support
    *Force - tech

    Each class then breaks down into race specifications (not gender, gender differences would be kept at a minimum past appearance). Basic race roles being humans a the in between with no outstanding weakness (highest combination of defence, evasion, hp and mst), casts being a physical tank (highest attack and physical defence, lowest mst, eva and tech) and newman being the glass cannon (highest tech, mst and lowest def and attack). If beasts were included I would make them similar to that in PSP2 and would take it further.

    Beasts had the best evasion in PSP2 and i would let them keep this. On top of that I'd give them low accuracy but higher attack speeds, lower their attack and tech to near human levels and lower PP/TP. Maybe keep highest HP. This role would be good for chaining (if it was kept) but not best for highest damage (physically being cast and teching being newmans). To sum up beasts they would be the ravagers of battle, beserkers if you will. Up in the front lines swiftly taring things up, taking hits with their high HP but evading too. Beasts of battle. /biased maybe, but it could differential them and give them a purpose. They would be the acrofighters now that I think of it.

    Note, these race roles can bend depending on the class they are in, similarly to PSO.

    Hunter
    *HUmar/HUmarl - run of the mill hunter with the average stats for the class but with best average defences. Some basic spells available like first teir attacks, and Resta. Access to many weapon classes. Role: basically, the HUmar of PSO
    *HUcast/HUcaseal - Highest attack/defense of hunters. No techs, though access to traps and natural trap detection. Proficiency with heavy equipment. Lowest defense to magic and little evasion. Role: the tank, high damage output but requires healing and support from others
    *HUnewm/HUnewearl - Lowest attack and physical defense of hunters. Best magical output and defence of hunters (to the point that its actually worth using in combination with melee). Proficiency with light weapons.. [i]Role: mage/melee hybrid.
    *HUbeast/HUbeasle - Highest evade, HP and attack speed. Lowest accuracy and pp/tp. Basic magic, like just resta and maybe a few debuffs and foie. Meant for chaining and fighting up close and keeping enemies occupied. Proficient with
    dual wielding Role: Meant for chaining and fighting up close and keeping enemies occupied

    Ranger
    *RAmar/marl - Run of the mill ranger, with best accuracy and proficiency with medium weight guns (rifles). Magic capabilities are basic, meaning resta and little else.Role: i'll sum them as RAmars from PSO
    *RAnewm/newearl - Taking up the role of RAmarls in PSO. The ranger with teching capabilities though mainly useful for support. Lowest attack of rangers but best magic. Proficiency in light and magic ranged weapons. Role: RAmarls from PSO and Guntechers in PSU
    *RAcast/caseal - highest attack and defence. lowest magic defence, evasion with no techs at all. proficiency in heavy weapons Role: combined version of RAcast and RAcaseal
    *RAbeast/beasle - Low capabilities with accuracy means use of heavy and medium guns are limited. Best with rapid, light guns. Run and gun and mess things up. Similar magic to humans in this class. Role chainging and up from line fighting

    Force
    *FOmar/FOmarl - Great def/mst/hp for a force. proficiency with medium power techs though access to all tech avail. Some melee ability Role: FOmars of PSO
    *FOnewm/FOnewearl - Best magic output in game, worse physical defence. Proficiency with highest power/cost techs though access to all tech avail. role: THE glass cannon. mix of FOnewms and FOnewearls from PSO.
    *FOcasts/FOcaseals - In PSU some people realized that this combo was good at being a nurse/supporting role. Most physically sturdy force though average at best MST. Highest procifiency with support techs and only attack spells available are lightning. Some melee/ranged weapon capabilities though attack and def severely reduced to allow teching abilities at all. role: sturdy healer
    *FObeast/FObeasle - Good with low teir, quick spells. Highest evasion in the game. With combination of high eva, access to light melee weps, speed and low tp/pp good makes role of beserker mage.



    As game progresses, give ability to change class? Maybe, I don't see it as necessary though. Give the ability to customize within the classes similarly PSP2 but don't allow every class to do everything (forces with long swords?)

    I typed this up quickly, some sorry if some of it doesn't seem clear. I agree that things like inclusion of beasts and FOcasts aren't necessary.

    What are your thoughts? how could the class system be done right in PSO2?

    Caelis - HUbeaseal
    Kimil - RAnewm
    Endrea - FOcaseal

  2. #2

    Default

    I'm not one for making long, drawn-out explanations and speeches, but in a nutshell:

    I'd like a PSP2 class system. It was great making your own, specialized class. However, I know a lot of PSOers who seethe with unbridled rage at such an idea.

    But, as I said in another thread: the "fixed" race/class system would be just fine with me as long as I can simply change clothes. I don't want to spend my entire PSO2 (if I get the game) career in the same outfit just because of my class. That's RPG hell for me, and would ruin my fun.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BIG OLAF View Post
    I'm not one for making long, drawn-out explanations and speeches, but in a nutshell:

    I'd like a PSP2 class system. It was great making your own, specialized class. However, I know a lot of PSOers who seethe with unbridled rage at such an idea.

    But, as I said in another thread: the "fixed" race/class system would be just fine with me as long as I can simply change clothes. I don't want to spend my entire PSO2 (if I get the game) career in the same outfit just because of my class. That's RPG hell for me, and would ruin my fun.
    I agree with this.
    I personally prefer customizing my own class and picking exactly which weapons I'd like to weild, but I loved PSO and I wouldn't mind the same class system as long as I can customize my actual character appearance a bit instead of looking like every other hunter/ranger/force since only a few of the options were tolerable x__x
    PSO2:
    Kirukia/Mistral
    Ship 2
    Gun Valkyrie

  4. #4

    Default

    Honestly I'd like to see something more along the lines of customizable classes as well, but keep the class restricted clothing while adding more outfits. I liked that you could tell who joined your game simply by what they wore but they definatly need more variety so looks don't get stale.

    As far as the class itself goes, I'd love to see a system that allows you to pick what type of weapons are available to you and maybe incorperate a point system for selecting what rank you can use (i.e. you get 20 points each wep rank cost 5 or something)

    I kinda liked the class lvling idea for PSU but if they're going to keep that idea I'd like to see it overhauled. It was frustrating that certain missions became obsolete due to the low MP.
    At least make it so if there is a form of MP, then make it universal to whatever mission/quest you are doing so we don't end up with another tragedy like White Beast.
    PSO GC: Justyn FOmar lvl200
    PSU PC/PS2/Xbox 360:Aftermath (Returned to the shadows)
    "That which appears harmless can destroy mountains"

  5. #5

    Default

    I love the customizable classes in PSP2, but I don't want to be stuck on a team with a bunch of people using weapons that don't suit their classes. If I'm playing as a Hunter, Ranger, or Force, I mainly play the role they're supposed to play. I don't want to get stuck with Hunters casting terrible grants, Forces using rifles with terrible ACC, or Rangers trying to use swords.

  6. #6

    Default

    I didn't talk about clothes, but yes, it would make no sense for classes to have one and only one outfit available to them. That said, I do want SOME class-only wear. They actually did this in PSP2, the default wear for each race could only be worn by that race.

    Some mix of rigid structure and customization is key in clothes and the class system.

    Weapon customization makes little sense for Forces as magic is their weapon. Allow magic customization options but at the same time I would like to see some of the race build in proficiencies past stats.

    Humans could be better with Gi-spells (this was the case for FOmars in PSO), Newmans with Ra and more expensive spells like Megid and Grants (again, already done in PSO with FOnewms and FOnewearls). If casts existed with some teching ability, maybe default with some lightning and if beasts existed give them goods with fire or low tier techs.

    On top of that default proficiencies, give options to customize and expand with abilities available to every race and some only race-specific.: Humans could gain proficiency with grants and support spells, maybe power up Gi-spells further while newmans could gain access to powerful ancient spells or simply gain proficiency with specific elements. Elemental boosts/speed of casting increases/access to high level or new techs all together.

    I'm babbling on now, just like my first post lol.

    Caelis - HUbeaseal
    Kimil - RAnewm
    Endrea - FOcaseal

  7. #7

    Default

    I prefer the PSO method of classes because I am biased. I liked the idea that players would fill a specific roll with their class choice. However, I will say that it will only work if it were completely balanced, which is something Sega is incapable of. Looking back on it now, I felt that some classes, such as Huney and Ramarl, would only fill niche roles that really limited their usefulness while other classes, Humar, remained completely outclassed and served no purpose other than, "I use it because I want to." So yeah, I'll admit that the PSU system allows more flexibility when it comes to class/race choices, and that it is better to change from a class you dislike rather than having to recreate the character. Regardless, some players are going to find a way to play their role poorly.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CHOX View Post
    I love the customizable classes in PSP2, but I don't want to be stuck on a team with a bunch of people using weapons that don't suit their classes. If I'm playing as a Hunter, Ranger, or Force, I mainly play the role they're supposed to play. I don't want to get stuck with Hunters casting terrible grants, Forces using rifles with terrible ACC, or Rangers trying to use swords.
    But that wouldn't be terribly convenient anyway. Besides the obvious downside of your class being horrible with the weapon and not having the appropriate stats for it, it costs more class points to even have a decent rank with the weapon. That makes it a lot more convenient to just change your class for it.

    In other words, the fact that they made it harder for you to use weapons that aren't supposed to be used by your class, makes it less common for this to happen.

    I mean I really haven't seen people play like that in my experiences thus far.
    PSO2:
    Kirukia/Mistral
    Ship 2
    Gun Valkyrie

  9. #9

    Default

    One problem with the PSP2 weapon system was it made certain weapons not worth using at all through the points requirements. Why choose a wand if it costs the same for a rod? In fact, just about everyone used rods. Forces, Hunters, Rangers, Vangaurds... everyone. From the time I played PSP2 I found that most people used:
    Twin Sabers
    Rods
    Rifles (if they used guns at all)
    EX traps (vangaurds)

    No one used:
    Swords/axes (any slow weapon)
    single handed weapons in general

    Why? Twin sabers were simply better than other melee weps (chaining, and that overpowered PA) and so were rods to wands and mags. Why chose anything but these if they cost the same to use? Without SOME restrictions to customization, everyone looks and plays the same.

    Caelis - HUbeaseal
    Kimil - RAnewm
    Endrea - FOcaseal

  10. #10

    Default

    Yeah, I was like. Lol wand or rod? Obviously rod since it's much more powerful.

    I actually use swords though for crowd control and I know others too.
    But I generally use Twin Sabers since they are just broken.

    But that's just more weapon balancing which will hopefully be fixed in Infinity.
    PSO2:
    Kirukia/Mistral
    Ship 2
    Gun Valkyrie

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