Race related questions.

[d19xx]

^and legal age loli.

[blace]

Newmans were experiments to basically improve humans. With higher mental capability they were worried things might get out of hand and lowered their physical strength.

Basically test tube babies.

[Masterflower]

All races' roots trace back to humans. Damn humans trying to play god! >:3

[Sinue_v2]

Well maybe we wouldn't get the whole half human/half machine borg type things from Cast offspring. They would probably end up more like Chobits. Completely artificial physically, but with a heart and mind like a living human, but still able to do naughty stuff with their artificial bodies.

Well, without so much a focus on the naughty stuff, that's more or less what I'm getting at. The difference being that we still don't know very much about consciousness as a phenomena, and AI development seems to reflect this as it's continually throttled by our advances in psychology and neuroscience. We really only have one working example of consciousness (inherited via common ancestry) with slight differentiations between the various expressions. I don't think we're going to be able create a new and unique consciousness out of pure logic. So any Strong AI we're likely to come up with will be based on the human model, and therefore intrinsically, would be human.

Heart and Mind comes along with that. So do rights and dignity, and so getting excited about the naughty stuff is a bit unsettling to me. I've got no problems with sexbots in general, and an emulated human mind in a synthetic body very likely will still need the intimacy and sexual attention any other human would. But to use them as you would a sexdoll is ethically (IMO) no better than cloning porn stars to sell them into sex slavery.

I'm not saying this what you're suggesting... but it has come up in conversations far more than it should.

Bioroids are from Appleseed. They were a geneticly altered human with limitations on strong emotions and given lives that would end unless they underwent a treatment to extend their lives. Also, their ability to create children was sealed away. Well, until it was unsealed by the Appleseed program.

I'm not familiar with Appleseed, since I tended to fall more to the GitS/NDTP side of Masamune Shirow's work. In other circles, bioroids is a general term which encompasses many different man/machine concepts including synthetic genomics and cybernetics. From the example you've given, the Bioroids seem like regular run of the mill genetically altered humans. (perhaps with or without cybernetic enhancements)

That doesn't really solve or get around the problem of having a fundamental dichotomy between DNA based organic life and non-organic non-DNA based raw materials when it comes to meaningful (something that actually blends inherited traits) reproduction between man and machine. The same problem exists for one of the examples I gave earlier of DNA origami in which the DNA is used to "grow" electronics in a fundamentally different way by using the DNA structure itself as a scaffolding - rather than as a coding medium for the production of proteins that differentiate the function of the cells which build the organism.

Here's my final 3 question. Why is it that in PSP2, the 3 races created by humans (newmans, beasts, and casts) were meant for slave labor? Is that what lead to the war of the races? (I know that's not what they are for now, but when beasts came around, Tonnio said something about them being as workers to work under the humans or something, I don't remember. And then there was the creation of casts, which were meant for robotic assistance, which means more slaves. Newmans I'm fuzzy with the details.) And finally, what's the deal with beastlings?

Casts "evolved" from labor saving machines... so you could say they were bonded into slavery before they were even created. Newmans, I believe, weren't so much slave labor as they were lab experiments. They were the byproduct of research into making humans more sensitive to and adept at working with photon energy. Beasts were created as slave labor as a means to mine the planet Moatoob for mineral resources.

The deal with beastlings goes back to the real world conditions of mining, especially coal mining in the US during the early 20th century. As miners followed the coal seams through the mountains, children were often used to access and follow smaller veins which were too large for an adult (let alone a horse) to fit. Their smaller and more nimble hands also made them ideal for sorting and rigging and other tasks requiring fine motor coordination (for this reason, textile work is another favorite for child labor, even today). This put them in some of the most dangerous parts of the mine, doing some of the hardest work. Small Beasts were essentially specifically engineered to be fully adult while still having the body of a child that could mine similar areas under similar conditions.

The ethics of prohibiting child labor, necessitating the creation of a new strain of Beasts rather than just use their existing children, among a race you are enslaving and devaluating as sub-human anyhow is a bit fuzzy though. I chalk it up to just being a side effect of Sega's sacrificing writing in favor of simply wanting to have a token anime "loli" race of prepubescents for perverts to fantasize over while rationalizing their pedophilia by claiming they're actually adults.

Spoiler!

[Emp]

Kinda off topic, but dang Sinue. Must take you awhile to post a post^ like that.

[A. Zerran]

Well, without so much a focus on the naughty stuff, that's more or less what I'm getting at. The difference being that we still don't know very much about consciousness as a phenomena, and AI development seems to reflect this as it's continually throttled by our advances in psychology and neuroscience. We really only have one working example of consciousness (inherited via common ancestry) with slight differentiations between the various expressions. I don't think we're going to be able create a new and unique consciousness out of pure logic. So any Strong AI we're likely to come up with will be based on the human model, and therefore intrinsically, would be human.

Heart and Mind comes along with that. So do rights and dignity, and so getting excited about the naughty stuff is a bit unsettling to me. I've got no problems with sexbots in general, and an emulated human mind in a synthetic body very likely will still need the intimacy and sexual attention any other human would. But to use them as you would a sexdoll is ethically (IMO) no better than cloning porn stars to sell them into sex slavery.

I'm not saying this what you're suggesting... but it has come up in conversations far more than it should.



I'm not familiar with Appleseed, since I tended to fall more to the GitS/NDTP side of Masamune Shirow's work. In other circles, bioroids is a general term which encompasses many different man/machine concepts including synthetic genomics and cybernetics. From the example you've given, the Bioroids seem like regular run of the mill genetically altered humans. (perhaps with or without cybernetic enhancements)

That doesn't really solve or get around the problem of having a fundamental dichotomy between DNA based organic life and non-organic non-DNA based raw materials when it comes to meaningful (something that actually blends inherited traits) reproduction between man and machine. The same problem exists for one of the examples I gave earlier of DNA origami in which the DNA is used to "grow" electronics in a fundamentally different way by using the DNA structure itself as a scaffolding - rather than as a coding medium for the production of proteins that differentiate the function of the cells which build the organism.



Casts "evolved" from labor saving machines... so you could say they were bonded into slavery before they were even created. Newmans, I believe, weren't so much slave labor as they were lab experiments. They were the byproduct of research into making humans more sensitive to and adept at working with photon energy. Beasts were created as slave labor as a means to mine the planet Moatoob for mineral resources.

The deal with beastlings goes back to the real world conditions of mining, especially coal mining in the US during the early 20th century. As miners followed the coal seams through the mountains, children were often used to access and follow smaller veins which were too large for an adult (let alone a horse) to fit. Their smaller and more nimble hands also made them ideal for sorting and rigging and other tasks requiring fine motor coordination (for this reason, textile work is another favorite for child labor, even today). This put them in some of the most dangerous parts of the mine, doing some of the hardest work. Small Beasts were essentially specifically engineered to be fully adult while still having the body of a child that could mine similar areas under similar conditions.

The ethics of prohibiting child labor, necessitating the creation of a new strain of Beasts rather than just use their existing children, among a race you are enslaving and devaluating as sub-human anyhow is a bit fuzzy though. I chalk it up to just being a side effect of Sega's sacrificing writing in favor of simply wanting to have a token anime "loli" race of prepubescents for perverts to fantasize over while rationalizing their pedophilia by claiming they're actually adults.

Spoiler!

...I'm inclined to agree with everything you said. And perhaps I have over spoken my boundaries of reason...or something like that. Oh, and by the way, thank you. Are you a scientist?