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  1. #21
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    Good demonstration, and some sort of damage calculation could be formatted, if you had one stat, and that's the defense and elemental resistance of the enemies. If we have that, we're golden.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-0 View Post
    Elemental Bonus: (Weapon's TOTAL attack power excluding affixes / 5 * Elemental Bonus) * Elemental Modifier (this varies from enemy to enemy, but it's a good rule of thumb that a weak enemy increases this value by 20~30% which is quite a lot)
    Wait, what? I can't make sense of this. I think you're missing a parenthesis here.

    Elemental Bonus: ((Weapon's TOTAL attack power excluding affixes / 5) * Elemental Bonus) * Elemental Modifier

    Is that right?

    Edit: No, no, this doesn't make sense either! If my weapon has 600 S-Atk and 50 element, that would make the bonus 120*50*Elemental Modifier, or 6000*Elemental Modifier, which is obviously not accurate at all! But if you read it the other way the elemental bonus would decrease with itself...

    I have no idea how to read this.
    Last edited by Zyrusticae; Dec 3, 2012 at 12:13 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrusticae View Post
    Wait, what? I can't make sense of this. I think you're missing a parenthesis here.

    Elemental Bonus: ((Weapon's TOTAL attack power excluding affixes / 5) * Elemental Bonus) * Elemental Modifier

    Is that right?

    Edit: No, no, this doesn't make sense either! If my weapon has 600 S-Atk and 50 element, that would make the bonus 120*50*Elemental Modifier, or 6000*Elemental Modifier, which is obviously not accurate at all! But if you read it the other way the elemental bonus would decrease with itself...

    I have no idea how to read this.
    You're forgetting that the elemental modifier is probably a decimal, so 6000*0.60=3600. Then you have to also remember that it has to go through the other half of the formula still.

    Using "(Weapon's TOTAL attack power excluding affixes / 5 * Elemental Bonus) * Elemental Modifier "
    we get (600/5*60)*0.60=1.2
    Then to put it through the other half, and the numbers add up higher, so Z-0's element formula obviously isn't accurate. Here's what I think is missing from both formulas, the Element Location Modifier. Using the Element Location Modifier, you can drastically change your damage output. So with "((Weapon's TOTAL attack power excluding affixes / 5) * Elemental Bonus) * Elemental Modifier" we would get 3600 Damage +(600/ 5 -60 / 5) *35+420=4020. Then if you had an Element Location Modifier in the Element Formula then you would get another number entirely. So say 3600*.35=1260+420=1680. And of course we have no idea what these numbers are, but I would say that for element, this is very close:

    Elemental Bonus: (((Weapon's TOTAL attack power excluding affixes / 5) * Elemental Bonus) * Elemental Modifier)*Element Location Modifier.
    You would need to conduct tests that use more similar weapons to fine tune anything more out of these approximations though.

  4. #24

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    Whether the actual damage output is right or not, it proves the point and it allows you to figure out the equivalent element mod you need to surpass a certain S-ATK.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlis-Desilver View Post
    Its decent data, but there are so many variables to the damage you deal surely it would be better to test using the same weapons with less element on. I.E what if one of your weapons is getting a boost from something else like armour.
    No units in the game boosts the ATK for any of the two rifles used during the video.

    I would throw in some screenshots for the Vita Rifle (non-element vs 12% element), but didn't upload them anywhere. =\



    Edit: The element in your weapon is a percentage, so in Zyrusticae's case it would be:

    (600/5 * 0.5) * elemental modifier

    With elemental modifier being... the element your target is weak against. So assuming you're hitting a Sil Dinian with a fire weapon, that means a grant total of "1".

    So the elemental damage from your weapon would be 60.

    If your target is an Agnis instead, and assuming the elemental modifier is 1.2x (most monster's elemental modifier is either 1.2x or 1.3x, apparently). That would make your elemental damage 72 instead.
    Last edited by Alenoir; Dec 3, 2012 at 01:22 PM.

  6. #26

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    That's... incredibly weak.

    So there's basically no way a 400 S-Atk weapon can compete with the 800+ S-Atk 10*s out there, even if they have no element bonus whatsoever.

    Figures.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrusticae View Post
    That's... incredibly weak.

    So there's basically no way a 400 S-Atk weapon can compete with the 800+ S-Atk 10*s out there, even if they have no element bonus whatsoever.

    Figures.
    It might be worth it to try using a blank +10 5* and a 50% +10 5* to figure this out a little bit better. We're also missing a crucial component for any formula, the part that randomizes the damage.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by jooozek View Post
    You will do more damage even if a monster isn't weak to an attribute. I've tested with my 50 light zanba (grinded to +10 so it's 400 S-ATK and no S-ATK affixes on it) versus a 14 dark vita claymore (grinded to +10 so it's 467 S-ATK and had Quartz Soul + Power III on it so additional 60 S-ATK = 527 S-ATK) on lvl 41 oodans and uner Fury Stance lv5 for both weapons and the result was that the Zanba did 4 more damage on Sonic Arrow than the vita claymore.
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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrusticae View Post
    That's... incredibly weak.

    So there's basically no way a 400 S-Atk weapon can compete with the 800+ S-Atk 10*s out there, even if they have no element bonus whatsoever.

    Figures.
    All things considered (all the passive and WB and whatnot included), for Sneak Shooter, it's more than 1k damage difference from the element on a weapon between a weapon with a 50% element and the same weapon with no element.

    Trying to justify it not meaning anything between a weapon and another weapon that doubles its attack is kinda... a wrong way of going about this.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenoir View Post
    All things considered (all the passive and WB and whatnot included), for Sneak Shooter, it's more than 1k damage difference from the element on a weapon between a weapon with a 50% element and the same weapon with no element.

    Trying to justify it not meaning anything between a weapon and another weapon that doubles its attack is kinda... a wrong way of going about this.
    Well no, that's the difference between a +10'd 6* and a +10'd 10*. It really is THAT big a gap.

    Vita Calibur is 492 at +10. Ruin Charm (weakest of the 10*s) hits 822.

    (492/5 * 0.5) * 1 = 49.2. With the modifier of 1.3x it's still only 63, which is the equivalent of 315 S-Atk. Enough to bridge the gap, perhaps, but that's assuming an element-less ruin charm (something that will be impossible after the next patch) and an enemy really weak to that element.

    Where it REALLY matters is that rares with elements are definitely much better than rares without elements. That same ruin charm with 20 element gets (822/5 * 0.2) * 1 = 32.88, rounded down to 32, or the equivalent of 160 S-Atk. Pretty darn big. Spend the untold millions needed for the element increasing items, you can get up to +82, or the equivalent of 410 S-Atk. That's huge. (Still costs 4m per 5%... so 20->50 would be 24m, lol. Not for me.)

    But again, you're better off with a non-elemental 10* than a 6* at 50%.

    What's still unclear to me is... how does this interact with passives like JA Advance? Does it boost all damage, after and including element bonuses?
    Last edited by Zyrusticae; Dec 3, 2012 at 03:20 PM.

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