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  1. #11

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    This is only true for fights where the mobs outlast the initial barrage from Fo/Fi. It's not that hard to get one or two extensions using PBs. Longer battles Fo/Te will win out, but really not by much seeing as it only take s a few seconds to refil your PP if you're willing to attack (6 swings from rod or so and I'm back up to full).

    Dont get me wrong, I play Fo/Te, but seeing as I can turn a WBed 17k Zonde into almost 29k by switching classes, you can't really say that Fo/Te will out DPS Fo/Fi simply based on sustainability.

  2. #12

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    Its really going to depend on what quest/TA your running, the gear you have, and what goal you have in mind to determine which is better between FO/FI and FO/TE. For TA though i would have to say FO/FI outclasses FO/TE by a lot especially in a party based TA if you manage your PP well and have enough damage to OHKO mobs you will clear areas much faster then FO/TE will, while not running out of PP when you do need it as long as the character has the right gear,build, and makes the right choices during the TA. Another thing to consider here is that FO/FI travels faster then FO/TE will. (I believe fist dashing is faster then the triple dash trick)

    For long term DPS FO/TE should win out but really under most conditions monsters generally do not last very long. I do like FO/TE in mpa though since you have a much lower chance running out of pp fighting great numbers of enemies in short time frames.
    Last edited by R81672; Jan 3, 2013 at 06:08 AM.

  3. #13

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    Or rather, FO/FI always has more DPS than a FO/TE. Providing you have Ketos Proi and get the PB up fast, you're not going to run out of PP (bursts in MPAs, etc). Enemies die very quickly in MPAs too, so FO/TE doesn't really help you out there. I use a fire tree on FO/FI, which essentially burns through PP a lot quicker than the other elements, and I never run out of PP. Ever.

    FO/FI is really not a joke. If you learn to manage your PP and have Ketos Proi on your mag, you're going to have no problems, and playing FO/TE will feel like a chore (I know it does to me; I can never play that combination without feeling like I'm missing something).

    About dashing:

    Knuckle Dashing is faster than the triple dash trick, but if you triple dash with two daggers on hand and step attack at the end of each triple dash, you will move slightly faster than knuckles.

    Or so one report says. Another says that knuckle dashing is faster, but who knows? They are both extremely close whatever the case is.

    The point is moot anyway, because if you don't live in Asia, it's impossible to triple dash since weapons switch too slowly.

    @ Bellion - Can't one shot Za Oodan / Gulf (lol I suck), although I can take them out with Safoie. Everything else can die to Foie/Rafoie though (except obvious stuff). I do over 4,250 HP (Oodan's HP in TA) with each tech, so I'm good for that quest. \o/
    Last edited by Z-0; Jan 3, 2013 at 06:17 AM.

  4. #14
    Direct Assault Bellion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-0 View Post
    @ Bellion - Can't one shot Za Oodan / Gulf (lol I suck), although I can take them out with Safoie. Everything else can die to Foie/Rafoie though (except obvious stuff). I do over 4,250 HP (Oodan's HP in TA) with each tech, so I'm good for that quest. \o/
    Ah, the Gulf have like 4600-4800HP, so I think I'd be able to kill them in 1 Foie if I decided to get a new mag. I thought I was really doing something wrong since I can only guarantee a Gulf kill with a Safoie. Same with the Za Oodan.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-0 View Post
    Or rather, FO/FI always has more DPS than a FO/TE. Providing you have Ketos Proi and get the PB up fast, you're not going to run out of PP (bursts in MPAs, etc). Enemies die very quickly in MPAs too, so FO/TE doesn't really help you out there. I use a fire tree on FO/FI, which essentially burns through PP a lot quicker than the other elements, and I never run out of PP. Ever.
    No, no, no! It doesn't!

    FO/FI is awful in bursts because you won't always get the stance bonus on every enemy; it's too chaotic and they don't all face your desired direction.
    Not only that, but you have no pp management tools whatsoever other than your mag.

    Speaking of your PB; it refills quicker the more enemies you hit with techs. You won't be filling that gauge up as quickly as a FO/TE who can juggle between PP Convert and his PB indefinitely.
    Nonetheless, your additional damage as /FI serves no purpose in a burst where 'enemies die very quickly' - what you're looking for is long-term sustainability so that there's no need whatsoever to ever stop casting.

    Also, you're lying if you say you use a fire tree and 'never run out PP, ever'.
    Sorry, your post is really misleading players that don't post here but may browse for information.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sociable Tyrannosaur View Post
    This is only true for fights where the mobs outlast the initial barrage from Fo/Fi. Longer battles Fo/Te will win out.
    Pretty much.
    What constitutes a longer battle is determined by your equipment, skill tree, and the strength of your PT. (Some bosses may die in <30secs, or take 4 mins, depending on who you run with, or if you're solo)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sociable Tyrannosaur View Post
    Dont get me wrong, I play Fo/Te, but seeing as I can turn a WBed 17k Zonde into almost 29k by switching classes, you can't really say that Fo/Te will out DPS Fo/Fi simply based on sustainability.
    You're referring to the Falz Hands fight I assume.
    The damage increase sure is impressive, nobody is doubting that. But it's a battle that will outlast the initial barrage from FO/FI. So by your own admission, FO/FI isn't ideal for it.
    Also, it's worth noting that subbing FI only has a dramatic increase in damage for Fire an Lightning techs (which can be conveniently maxed out on the FO side of the tree.) Other elements such as Ice, Wind, Dark and Light will see a much smaller boost in damage by subbing /FI over /TE. Luckily though, there's not that much use for these other elements right now.

    The bottom line is that while FO/FI is great, it's very situational.
    If you had to pick either Fighter or Techer as a sub, and leave the other at lv1. You'd be doing yourself a lot of harm by choosing Fighter. FO/TE is just a lot more versatile and useful in more situations.

    This isn't a discussion about who puts up the highest numbers, the OP's question was which class is 'best'. And by best i assume he means the combination that (overall) has the fewest weaknesses and most strengths.

    FO/TE has no weaknesses, it simply doesn't excel at burst-damage. For FO/FI to shine, there are certain scenarios that must first be met.

    Edit: The only thing we've even discussed is damage. If we're going to take into account other /TE benefits such as additional T-ATK for equipment and complimentary TE skill tree abilities, then the utility blows /FI out of the water.
    Last edited by Dextro; Jan 3, 2013 at 01:14 PM.
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  6. #16

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    I got about 8% more damage with brave stance and 28% more damage with wise stance while using rafoie on dagans and equipping identical gear. Brave stance is clearly not worth losing all of the regen TE offers, and wise stance is questionable, even if you could always be behind your target (which you rarely can when at long range). I only had around 1400 T attack, so maybe the damage may seem worth it if you wear perfect/near perfect gear since fighter stances are calculated in an unusual way compared to standard precent attack increases.
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  7. #17

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    8%? What are your stance skill levels? Do you have element weak hit advance on your techer?

    These details are important when comparing these sorts of things.

  8. #18
    Direct Assault Bellion's Avatar
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    FO/FI is probably the most useful class for taking down Elder(if you want loot). They can have high or low damage with the stances, use wise stance when you want to break arms and use brave stance when you want to shock him with Sazonde spam and do minimal damage to have more of a chance to break the top arms.

    Don't forget to unequip your weapon if you want to Sazonde spam though.

  9. #19
    Kagajibaris are Dezorians Omega-z's Avatar
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    Hmm sound like underestimating TE class.....again.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
    Snip
    thing is rod is fairly good at refiling PP with its melee. I said earlier that we're talking only a few seconds of down time inbetween said barrages if you're not afraid to melee to refill your PP. On boss fights (particularly EQs) where your PB isn't going to fill, FO/TE has 30 seconds of relentless techs and then 90 seconds of cooldown. With PPR they're regen PP a bit faster during that downtime, but I'm not sure it's enough to make up a 44-69% damage boost for those 90 seconds of only slightly faster PP regen when both builds will still need to to attack to refill quickly.

    That in mind, one could argue that FO/TE's sustainability is also situational. We'd have to crunch some hard numbers to be able validate the claim that one is better than another.

    Btw as a FO/TE with no buffs my JAed Charged Zonde to a weakpoint on an enemy weak to lightning does ~5.3k. With Shifta Drink EX and Shifta this gets closer to 6.5k. WBed for 3x damage we're talking ~16-20k, yes this includes Falz Hands, but it's not exclusive to them. In a Falz Elder fight, a FO/FI can add 69% damage to that for about 28-29k(losing the bonus from elemental weak hit) so we're talking ~45% extra damage per hit in wise stance and ~20% extra damage in brave stance. for 25% of the time FO/TE is casting n stop, but 75% of the time they're almost neck and neck for number of techs cast.

    I know this isn't accurate but lets SAY they are casting at the exact same rates that other 75% (because if it takes FO/FI 5-6 seconds to refil their PP via melee, PPR is only getting FO/TE 12 extra PP that's only 12% faster in the end. that's 15-34% more damage from FO/FI depending on stance.

    My math may be a bit off, so someone correct it if it is. The question now is in those 30 seconds where FO/TE is machine gunning Foie techs, how many more techs is FO/TE really squeezing out and is it enough to make up for the other 90 seconds?

    Point is I think the two builds are based largely on preference and to say one is hands down "the best" may be a bit shortsighted.

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