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  1. #21

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    I don't think it's shortsighted at all to say that one is the best.
    Once again, you're only talking about damage here (fire and lightning nonetheless).
    I already explained why -overall- FO/TE is the more viable class.

    Everything you're arguing with above, is under the assumption that all the conditions for FO/FI to achieve maximum damage are automatically being met. In reality, meeting those circumstances is highly situational.
    If these conditions stray for even 15 secs of the hypothetical fight we're comparing, then the results would fluctuate wildly in /TE's favour.

    So let's just leave FO/FI as it is - a situational subclass that can pull higher numbers than FO/TE when certain conditions are met.
    | Dextro | Ship 10 | Legion |

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
    So let's just leave FO/FI as it is - a situational subclass that can pull higher numbers than FO/TE when certain conditions are met.
    But that applies to a lot of class combos, including FO/TE. To say that one is more viable than the other is completely defendant on the situation. And that's how it is for most classes. Would you say FO/TE is better than GU/RA just because it's more viable in certain situations?

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coatl View Post
    But that applies to a lot of class combos, including FO/TE. To say that one is more viable than the other is completely defendant on the situation. And that's how it is for most classes. Would you say FO/TE is better than GU/RA just because it's more viable in certain situations?
    There is no situational variable in the damage of FO/TE, at all. Under every condition it will perform the same.

    The same cannot be said of FO/FI, who has higher damage in some situations, and lower damage in others.
    And in the situations where FO/FI has the potential to pull higher damage, if the player misfires a tech in the wrong stance due to a number of possible reasons, he's losing the advantage he has.

    It's sort of like taking Tech JA Advance over Tech Charge Advance, and then missing a JA. Only the margin of error for stances is higher than JAs.

    It's really as simple to understand as that.

    It's situational damage, not class choice.
    So I'm not going to compare FO/TE to GU/RA, they're different classes and it's irrelevant. I feel like you're just throwing that out for arguments sake
    Last edited by Dextro; Jan 4, 2013 at 12:37 PM.
    | Dextro | Ship 10 | Legion |

  4. #24

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    Cute how you ignored that I already explained how FO/TE's sustained PP advantage was also situational and that in situations where that didn't apply, they only got that massive PP regen for 25% of the time. there was math and explanations and examples of when FO/TE was more effective...etc.

    I didn't expect you to actually read it, but you could at least pretend you did instead of digging deeper in.
    Last edited by SociableTyrannosaur; Jan 4, 2013 at 09:09 PM. Reason: Typing in a hurry on my lunchbreak makes for lack of proofreading

  5. #25
    (⌐■_■) ShinMaruku's Avatar
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    Good stuff to know.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by SociableTyrannosaur View Post
    Cute how I already explained how FO/TE's sustained PP advantage was also situational and that in situations where that didn't apply, they only got that massive PP regen for 25% of the time. there was math and explanations and examples of when FO/TE was more effective...etc.

    I didn't expect you to actually read it, but you could at least pretend you did instead of digging deeper in.
    Thanks for your input.
    The condescending remarks are unnecessary and aren't doing your credibility any favors.

    Just for clarification - as it seems you might have misunderstood - I outright stated that there is no situational variable in the damage output of a FO/TE.
    The Element Weak Hit factor is a constant +20% bonus which is guaranteed with every cast, unlike stance damage which you may lose out on completely due to human error.

    I didn't even challenge anything you said in regards to the PP advantage after you made your post. You made a perfectly valid point there and I left it as it is for others to learn from.
    In my previous post I was simply advocating all the other benefits that make the class more viable overall.

    If you reply again, please let it be a contribution towards the discussion, and not just a personal attack against me.
    Last edited by Dextro; Jan 4, 2013 at 06:41 PM.
    | Dextro | Ship 10 | Legion |

  7. #27

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    Wrong.

    There is no time where a Fo/Fi's damage is going to be hit with those sorts of variables. By your own admission PPC only shines when it can supplement its down time with additional PBs. 120% damage for using the right element is far more situational than 144% because you're postioned at the front half of an enemy. The best techs in the game for DPS provided you have the PP are fire with FTSC. You'd have to have a 2x damage mod to make up for being able to cast techs twice as fast and Fo/Te can only keep that up for 30 seconds (25% of a mission considering a 90 second cooldown) before it has to resort playing exactly the same way as Fo/Fi. after that you're talking the right element vs an enemy to get that bonus damage where as Fo/Fi can get a 44% bonus and just spam Zonde techs which are so cheap with BTPPS that your PP nearly regenerates before you actually release your charge. OR you can spam RaFoie/SaFoie with fast charging and obliterate most mobs as they close in. and that's just brave stance. Wise stance gets you even better damage but requires you to attack from behind, so that stance isn't used as often.


    Anyway there's no point in discussing this further until you can prove that the damage Fo/Te is doing in 30 seconds is more than enough for it to make up for the damage it isn't doing for the other 90. Until then you're just throwing out personal opinions with only theories as support and demanding that the rest of us call it fact.

    Show me the numbers or accept that both builds are viable and a matter of preference/playstyle.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by SociableTyrannosaur View Post
    Wrong.
    Show me the numbers or accept that both builds are viable and a matter of preference/playstyle.
    Sorry, but what the hell is wrong with your reading comprehension?
    Not once did I say that FO/FI isn't viable..

    The statement I made is that FO/TE is the most well-rounded class combination for Force, and I've given a whole list of explanations why.

    Why are you asking for numbers? The numbers are there, you just can't comprehend that the application of these numbers is constant on one end, but prone to a decrease due to human error on the other end.
    This is a fact, not an opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by SociableTyrannosaur View Post
    120% damage for using the right element is far more situational than 144% because you're postioned at the front half of an enemy.
    Hahaha
    Did you really just say that? Just who is going to take you seriously anymore?

    You can't accidentally or unintentionally use the wrong element.
    You can accidentally or unintentionally be in the wrong stance/position.
    Now, tell me - which factor is more constant?

    I'll tell you why your argument fails.
    Instead of making your own points and focusing on the strengths of your argument, you're trying to prove me wrong on accounts that I'm clearly not wrong on.
    A successful discussion yields results when 2 people, both of whom hold valid points, can acknowledge each other's findings and agree on the pros and cons of each class.

    Do you see the difference between us here? I haven't tried to prove you wrong on any account have I?
    I work with what you tell me about FO/FI, and point out that while it may have those strengths, you should be wary about what situations they're applicable in. You on the other hand, are not only trying to disregard every single weakness that /FI has, but you're actually trying to bring down /TE strengths. *facepalm*.

    In my first reply, I even agreed with you on YOUR statement that "FO/FI excels at burst damage, but FO/TE will win in battles that last longer than the first barrage."
    Ever since then, you've changed this viewpoint for a more bias one each and every time. Instead of acknowledging that there's a rightful use for each class, you're now trying to hide the weaknesses of /FI. Look at how your statement evolved:
    Quote Originally Posted by SociableTyrannosaur View Post
    This is true for fights where the mobs outlast the initial barrage from Fo/Fi. Longer battles Fo/Te will win out.
    Here, the excuses to cover up /FI's flaws begin. The deciding factor is no longer the initial barrage, apparently:
    Quote Originally Posted by SociableTyrannosaur View Post
    thing is rod is fairly good at refiling PP with its melee. We're talking only a few seconds of down time inbetween said barrages
    Eventually, you contradict your own viewpoint for the sole purpose of attempting to disprove anything I say. You've even got the audacity to ask ME for the numbers:
    Quote Originally Posted by SociableTyrannosaur View Post
    prove that the damage Fo/Te is doing in 30 seconds is more than enough for it to make up for the damage it isn't doing for the other 90
    So quite frankly, saying that I'm passing my opinion as fact is pretty ridiculous.
    You're just a stubborn hypocrite, and if someone happens to not share your point of view, this page long discussion is how it'll end up - even if the other person tries to be completely civil about it.

    I'm not going to reply any further.
    There is also nothing more I need to provide you with, numerical data or otherwise.
    You've got my permission now, to follow up with your deliberately condescending final retort, where you'll desperately try to sound like you're the one who knows what they're talking about; an attempt to paint me as the uninformed idiot.

    Good luck with that, and welcome to PSO-W~
    Last edited by Dextro; Jan 5, 2013 at 03:22 AM.
    | Dextro | Ship 10 | Legion |

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
    Sorry, but what the hell is wrong with your reading comprehension?
    Not once did I say that FO/FI isn't viable..

    The statement I made is that FO/TE is the most well-rounded class combination for Force, and I've given a whole list of explanations why.

    Why are you asking for numbers? The numbers are there, you just can't comprehend that the application of these numbers is constant on one end, but prone to a decrease due to human error on the other end.
    This is a fact, not an opinion.


    Hahaha
    Did you really just say that? Just who is going to take you seriously anymore?

    You can't accidentally or unintentionally use the wrong element.
    You can accidentally or unintentionally be in the wrong stance/position.
    Now, tell me - which factor is more constant?

    I'll tell you why your argument fails.
    Instead of making your own points and focusing on the strengths of your argument, you're trying to prove me wrong on accounts that I'm clearly not wrong in.
    A successful discussion yields results when 2 people, both of whom hold valid points, can acknowledge each other's findings and agree on the pros and cons of each class.

    Do you see the difference here? I haven't tried to prove you wrong on any account have I? I work with what you tell me about FO/FI, and highlight that while it has those strengths, you should be wary about what situations they're applicable in.

    So frankly, saying that I'm passing my opinion as fact is pretty ridiculous. You're such a hypocrite; if someone happens to disagree with anything you say, this page long discussion is how it'll end up, even if the other person is completely civil about it.

    Welcome to PSO-W, you'll love it here.
    If you're using a stance by accident you're too stupid to play fighter.

    And "no you're wrong, Fo/Te is superior" is not trying to prove me wrong how? My claim is that both are equally viable and largely a matter of preference. You're saying that's wrong or else you wouldn't be arguing with me.

    Lastly I'm at least supporting my position with data while you just come back with "no you're wrong Fo/Te is better cause I prefer them."

    Hope trying to sound clever gets you far in life. Seems that's all you have going for you.
    Last edited by SociableTyrannosaur; Jan 5, 2013 at 03:30 AM.

  10. #30

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    This is probably a stupid question but:

    Spoiler!

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