Coming back to PSO2, would like some info about Force/Techer

[AshAngel]

So after a long time away from PSO2 I'm coming back to start a new character: Female Newman FO/TE. I've already decided on most of my build, but I'd like some information to help me complete it.

1: I've seen from some builds on here that Bolt Mastery is generally taken. Are the Zonde techs really that good? So far I've been good with the Zan, Foie, and Grants family; with some Samegid thrown in when needed.

2: I plan on going FO/TE with almost no extra points to spare for Wind Mastery. I use Zan a lot right now, and from what I remember a lot of mobs are weak to Wind element. Would it be necessary to throw a point in Wind Mastery to boost the effectiveness of Zan techs later on? I could potentially get some points in there, but my build is based on a 50/100 T-Atk/Dex Mag and the assumption that there will be more levels and better Rods to use later on that take more T-Atk to be able to wield. Although it is still early on in my Mag's life and I can bump the T-Atk up more if needed. I'd prefer to only go up to 70/80 T-Atk/Dex though. I value high Dex a lot, even before I quit, and feel it's a rather under valued stat at times.

Here is what my build will look like without Wind Mastery. I'm planning on using Luxe Soir Set for extra HP/PP and I'm looking to get one with Stamina on it to bump my HP up over 530. If I can do that I'll have around 400 HP after PP Convert. With Deband up I, hopefully, won't be oneshot by a lot of the higher end bosses, but it's been a long time since I last played and more bosses have been added.

Here and here are the two options I have for giving myself Wind Mastery. I'm leaning towards saccing some Light Mastery for some Wind Mastery, but I'm unsure about it.

I know some of you are going to be a little annoyed at the 10/10 T-Atk Up, but again, it's under the assumption that there will be more powerful Rods in the future. When looking at the pattern for T-Atk required the next Rod will either be 710 or 720.

3: When I quit last time I barely got my hands on the TE class. How does it play compared to FO? I know it's suppose to be a melee caster with some focus on support on paper, but how does it actually work?

4: I've seen that Techs can go up to level 15 now and there are some more Techs than there were when I quit. Are some techs more useful at level 15 than at level 10? Is the Barta family still pretty much useless outside of Deband? Also, are there specific areas I should be looking to grind out for level 15 Techs later on?

5: What are the Techs that a level 60/60 FO/TE would normally bring? I'd like to know if my planned final set of Techs are on the right track.

That's all for now. Thanks for the help. ♥☆♥

[Hrith]

1: In effect, yes, most lightning techniques are very good, but there are excellent techniques in every element.
Players who specialise in one element are players who do not align their element, or players who have several skill trees and change according to the area they play.

Whether you are the kind of player to always take advantage of the elemental weakness of the monster or not, the lightning part of the Force tree has many useful skills, including the PP Save one, since lightning techniques tend to cost more PP otherwise.

2: You do not need Wind Mastery, and honestly, it's an annoying part of the techer tree without anything else that's really worth getting. Unless you have several techer skill trees and one for each element, do not bother.

I doubt you'd need more than 50 DEX on a mag, though

I'm planning on using Luxe Soir Set for extra HP/PP and I'm looking to get one with Stamina on it to bump my HP up over 530. If I can do that I'll have around 400 HP after PP Convert. With Deband up I, hopefully, won't be oneshot by a lot of the higher end bosses, but it's been a long time since I last played and more bosses have been added.

Those units only give 50 HP (but 25 PP), the Snow units give 120 HP (and 6 PP). I think you need HP more than PP as FO/TE, especially if you're going to have PP Charge Revival, PP Regenerate 1 and PP Convert (and possibly Cetus Proi).
The Snow units have much better defences, too, especially for a newman female.

I know some of you are going to be a little annoyed at the 10/10 T-Atk Up, but again, it's under the assumption that there will be more powerful Rods in the future. When looking at the pattern for T-Atk required the next Rod will either be 710 or 720.

I used to have that for meeting requirements, too, but now than I am Lv60/60, I no longer need it, even though I am a caseal. Your newman sure will not. I still think you should get more T-ATK on the mag (if only for the requirements you mention). Dexterity can be added with Arm III or Signo, Rappy and Chrome Souls.

3: The only difference between TE/FO and FO/TE is the weapon you use. Wands are slightly weaker at casting spells, but have a decently powerful CQC attack (Wand Gear skill).
This also means that TE/FO is more likely to be close to the enemies - it makes healing meleers easier, and means you will get your PP back by attacking with your wand, too.
If and when you are using PP Convert, though, TE/FO plays mostly like FO/TE for the duration of that skill, since the reduced max HP means you'll want to keep your distances.

4: Many techniques get more powerful at LV11+, there is no big difference after that.

Barta and Rabarta are very good techniques. Gibarta is absolutely awesome.

5: Well, that depends on your gameplay and build a lot. I use many techs from all elements, because I hate confining myself to only a few techs and my caster is built around always aligning her element.

One technique I'd like good casters to use more is Megiverse, this spell is a wonder, especially with Territory Burst.

[D-Inferno]

I'm just going to quote what I said in the other similar thread:

FO/TE should almost always be used over TE/FO, as the weapon selection is superior. Also Rare Mastery should never be maxed; one point is good (for Force that is).

Also, for Force to be at it's best, you will need to have extra FO trees. Pure Fire, Pure Lightning (last 5 points can go in either PP Save or JA Adv; I maxed the latter) are the FO trees you want (Pure Ice can be made, but not much is weak to Ice). For TE, you want Pure Dark (last three points should either get PPC to six, or JR/EA/freebie) for hitting FC and Sanctum dragonkin, as well is maybe PP Battery for easier Fire tech spamming.

Also consider leveling Fighter to be used as a sub (enough to get JR and both Stances maxed (ignore the Crits though), as FO/FI actually hits harder than FO/TE, although it is easy to run out of PP with FO/FI.

The only things weak to Wind are Forest enemies save rare Banther Ong, and the upcoming Bird Darker (which are the the most part also weak to Light), so it's better to use Fire and Light on said enemies. Also, you can make a Light Tree maybe, though I don't know if it'll be really that useful (it depends how Bird Darkers and Nagrants are like).

Also, dex on your mag is NOT a good idea at all. Dex is not as good as everyone thought it would be. Pure T-ATK is the best, imo (note that newman dex is only 392 at 60/60 though, so you'll need 8 dex if you want elder set). However, I assume your mag already has dex anyhow. Use 6 star room items to lower dex, while increasing T-ATK a little. Oh, and the mag cap is now 175.

[AshAngel]

1: In effect, yes, most lightning techniques are very good, but there are excellent techniques in every element.
Players who specialise in one element are players who do not align their element, or players who have several skill trees and change according to the area they play.

Whether you are the kind of player to always take advantage of the elemental weakness of the monster or not, the lightning part of the Force tree has many useful skills, including the PP Save one, since lightning techniques tend to cost more PP otherwise.

I was planning on just using one tree for each class. I prefer to use elemental weaknesses when possible, but sometimes it's just more viable to use Zan because it can hit up to 6 times per cast; or Samegid when you can't get in close enough for Zan.

2: You do not need Wind Mastery, and honestly, it's an annoying part of the techer tree without anything else that's really worth getting. Unless you have several techer skill trees and one for each element, do not bother.

Yeah, I'm really sad that it's so far out of the way. I'm gonna have to wait until there are more levels before I can pump a lot of points into it. It's a shame: I really like the Zan family of techs.

I doubt you'd need more than 50 DEX on a mag, though

Those units only give 50 HP (but 25 PP), the Snow units give 120 HP (and 6 PP). I think you need HP more than PP as FO/TE, especially if you're going to have PP Charge Revival, PP Regenerate 1 and PP Convert (and possibly Cetus Proi).
The Snow units have much better defences, too, especially for a newman female.

I was using Cirnopedia and just looking at the set bonuses. I forgot about the individual stats on each. I'll have to look into that then, since it changes a lot. Thanks for that.

I used to have that for meeting requirements, too, but now than I am Lv60/60, I no longer need it, even though I am a caseal. Your newman sure will not. I still think you should get more T-ATK on the mag (if only for the requirements you mention). Dexterity can be added with Arm III or Signo, Rappy and Chrome Souls.

I remember Arm/Rappy souls being a real pain to get, which was why I was steering away from them. After thinking it through I think adding more T-ATK is a good idea as well. I'll rework the build a little to compensate.

3: The only difference between TE/FO and FO/TE is the weapon you use. Wands are slightly weaker at casting spells, but have a decently powerful CQC attack (Wand Gear skill).
This also means that TE/FO is more likely to be close to the enemies - it makes healing meleers easier, and means you will get your PP back by attacking with your wand, too.
If and when you are using PP Convert, though, TE/FO plays mostly like FO/TE for the duration of that skill, since the reduced max HP means you'll want to keep your distances.

Thanks for this. <3

4: Many techniques get more powerful at LV11+, there is no big difference after that.

Barta and Rabarta are very good techniques. Gibarta is absolutely awesome.

5: Well, that depends on your gameplay and build a lot. I use many techs from all elements, because I hate confining myself to only a few techs and my caster is built around always aligning her element.

One technique I'd like good casters to use more is Megiverse, this spell is a wonder, especially with Territory Burst.

The problem I had with a lot of the Barta techs is there wasn't any reason to use them over Rafoie, Gigrants, and (occasionally) Gizonde. Later when Zan was introduced there was even less reason to use Barta techs, even if the mobs were weak to it. Why use Rabarta/Gibarta when Zan/Rafoie/Gigrants all kill quicker and have better status effects? Although that was just from what I experienced, which was just after Zan was released.

Also, dex on your mag is NOT a good idea at all. Dex is not as good as everyone thought it would be. Pure T-ATK is the best, imo (note that newman dex is only 392 at 60/60 though, so you'll need 8 dex if you want elder set). However, I assume your mag already has dex anyhow. Use 6 star room items to lower dex, while increasing T-ATK a little. Oh, and the mag cap is now 175.

That mag level increase is glorious. It allows for some more customization~

[UnLucky]

1: Zonde is pretty powerful, yes, but more useful is Zondeel which sucks in nearby enemies. Does pretty good damage to a wide area, too.

2: Not many enemies are weak to wind, but Zan is pretty good so it can be worth a point in Wind Mastery.

Dex isn't valued because it doesn't help you very much. Just by leveling naturally and using a powerful weapon, your damage spread is not very wide. Increasing your Dex can only bring your minimum damage closer to your maximum, but more Atk increases them both. Any time you crit, your Dex is essentially ignored so more Atk would mean higher crits.

For your build, getting so much T-Atk Up isn't very useful since even the 4% from Tech JA you could get with the rest of your points does more for your damage than 40 T-Atk. You should rely on your mag for equipment requirements, not your skill tree.

That said, do NOT stop at lv9 T-Atk Up like in your Techer tree. That last point is worth 10 T-Atk; way more than any other point in the skill. It's still not better than a 1% bonus, but it's the single most significant point in that skill, so yes I am annoyed. Take a point from Shifta Advance, Deband Cut, Extend Assist or even PP Restorate I don't care. It should be 3 or 10, nothing in between.

3: Techer is a good PP battery sub for Force, or to spec in a separate element, which is most commonly Dark since it compliments Fire/Bolt well.

As a main, it is almost strictly inferior to Force as a caster. Wands are weaker and slower for technics, but their melee attack is roughly twice as powerful. Considering a Force's melee is their weakest attribute, that's not saying much. You can get some mileage out of it by subbing a melee class on Techer, but your techs suffer even more.

The support is just not very good, plus it all works just as well as a sub on Force. I say if you like the Techer playstyle, just use Safoie on a rod and actively support your party members, whether they're up front or staying behind. Besides, you're much sturdier as a Force anyway since you can equip better gear (Schlacht set AKA Snow Kitty).

4: Certain techs drop off of rare enemies, so look those up if you want to farm them. Anything else will generally drop from anywhere, so just keep playing. If the tech doesn't get much stronger from 10->11, then you can buy a cheap one from the shops.

5: Every single fire tech is good.
Zonde, Sazonde, Zondeel are good. (Razonde is only useful as an easy Zondeel activator, but Sazonde works just as well even uncharged).
Gibarta is the best ice tech. But not much reason to use ice techs.
Light techs are strong, and Grants/Gigrants are pretty useful, but it overlaps with fire/bolt weaknesses, and they charge slower, so they fall out of favor.
Zan is good. Razan is an easy knockdown. End.
Samegid is fast and powerful, but can miss at close range. Megid is slow and powerful, so it's best up close to lots of enemies. The other two are... not very good since they can easily miss or are otherwise hard to use.

[AshAngel]

1: Zonde is pretty powerful, yes, but more useful is Zondeel which sucks in nearby enemies. Does pretty good damage to a wide area, too.

2: Not many enemies are weak to wind, but Zan is pretty good so it can be worth a point in Wind Mastery.

Dex isn't valued because it doesn't help you very much. Just by leveling naturally and using a powerful weapon, your damage spread is not very wide. Increasing your Dex can only bring your minimum damage closer to your maximum, but more Atk increases them both. Any time you crit, your Dex is essentially ignored so more Atk would mean higher crits.

For your build, getting so much T-Atk Up isn't very useful since even the 4% from Tech JA you could get with the rest of your points does more for your damage than 40 T-Atk. You should rely on your mag for equipment requirements, not your skill tree.

That said, do NOT stop at lv9 T-Atk Up like in your Techer tree. That last point is worth 10 T-Atk; way more than any other point in the skill. It's still not better than a 1% bonus, but it's the single most significant point in that skill, so yes I am annoyed. Take a point from Shifta Advance, Deband Cut, Extend Assist or even PP Restorate I don't care. It should be 3 or 10, nothing in between.

3: Techer is a good PP battery sub for Force, or to spec in a separate element, which is most commonly Dark since it compliments Fire/Bolt well.

As a main, it is almost strictly inferior to Force as a caster. Wands are weaker and slower for technics, but their melee attack is roughly twice as powerful. Considering a Force's melee is their weakest attribute, that's not saying much. You can get some mileage out of it by subbing a melee class on Techer, but your techs suffer even more.

The support is just not very good, plus it all works just as well as a sub on Force. I say if you like the Techer playstyle, just use Safoie on a rod and actively support your party members, whether they're up front or staying behind. Besides, you're much sturdier as a Force anyway since you can equip better gear (Schlacht set AKA Snow Kitty).

4: Certain techs drop off of rare enemies, so look those up if you want to farm them. Anything else will generally drop from anywhere, so just keep playing. If the tech doesn't get much stronger from 10->11, then you can buy a cheap one from the shops.

5: Every single fire tech is good.
Zonde, Sazonde, Zondeel are good. (Razonde is only useful as an easy Zondeel activator, but Sazonde works just as well even uncharged).
Gibarta is the best ice tech. But not much reason to use ice techs.
Light techs are strong, and Grants/Gigrants are pretty useful, but it overlaps with fire/bolt weaknesses, and they charge slower, so they fall out of favor.
Zan is good. Razan is an easy knockdown. End.
Samegid is fast and powerful, but can miss at close range. Megid is slow and powerful, so it's best up close to lots of enemies. The other two are... not very good since they can easily miss or are otherwise hard to use.

Thought I'd check the thread once more before I go to sleep and I see this. <3

- Right now I plan on getting all Techs to level 10 to see if they're useful in combat for the way I play, of if I just haven't found the right situation yet. So far I've gone through all of Barta, most of Foie, all of Megid, and all of Grants. Next I'll go through Zonde after I get Safoie, but before that I need to work up the Meseta to buy the rest of the Techs. Kinda broke right now. T_T

- I feel like I should explain the +1 to Shifta but I've already modified the build so there's no need. Here is the updated build. Sacrificing a little base T-ATK to get more overall T-ATK

The reason you say Dex isn't valued is precisely why I value it. I try to balance an moderate T-ATK with an above average Dex to push my minimum damage as close to my maximum I can without sacrificing too much. I normally play solo or with a friend so crits are very few. Back before I quit I was a 40 FO. When I played without a decent amount of Dex I really notice a major difference in the damage range. Large enough to cost me an extra cast most of the time. Back then without the Dex the damage range was over 300 larger on the minimum than with the Dex, at least from what I remember.

For now I'll continue with this build, but I'll try out a different one on a different Ship to see how much I like it.

- I actually prefer using Gigrants over Gifoie as the crowd clearer to compliment Rafoie/Zan/Samegid. Gigrants just suits me over Gifoie. I find Gifoie to be too limited when compared to Gigrants.

I've yet to use Safoie so I don't know how that one works yet, but I've heard good things about it.

- That's pretty much what I was expecting, so glad that hasn't changed.

- The only use I've found out of Gibarta is stun locking Caterdra'n/Vol when you're in a group. It's too bad that Zan and Samegid, respectively, take them out faster.

Thanks for the input guys~ ★

[UnLucky]

Well a single point in Shifta Advance is a 5% better Shifta which means instead of 19.4% of your base with a lv15 tech, it's now 20.37%. That's not even a 1% increase of your base stats, which isn't even half of your total stats. That's not going to be more than 10 T-Atk unless you really stack base stats absurdly high, but by then some other bonus would be much better than Shifta Advance.

Yes, it can be applied to other players, but it's still so minor nobody really sticks around for it. In fact, it's most likely better DPS to completely ignore the support class trying to buff you and just attack the enemy instead.

[D-Inferno]

Also, if for whatever reason you want more dex, you're better off affixing it on to your units (through either Arm III, or Ability III if you are daring), as by putting dex on mag, you get less from Shifta multipliers.

[Hrith]

The other two [dark techniques] are... not very good since they can easily miss or are otherwise hard to use.

Ramegid may be 'hard' to use, but isn't it the most powerful technique in the game? I can easily do 23,000~25000 damage to a monster weak to dark with it, and I do not even have one SP spent in Dark Mastery 1. It may be more useful to me since I play TE/FO over FO/TE and I'm often in close range, but against big enemies (say Fordransa and above in size), all ten hits connect for immense damage.

I remember Arm/Rappy souls being a real pain to get, which was why I was steering away from them.

They're not very popular affixes, so they are very cheap in player shops.

The problem I had with a lot of the Barta techs is there wasn't any reason to use them over Rafoie, Gigrants, and (occasionally) Gizonde. Later when Zan was introduced there was even less reason to use Barta techs, even if the mobs were weak to it. Why use Rabarta/Gibarta when Zan/Rafoie/Gigrants all kill quicker and have better status effects? Although that was just from what I experienced, which was just after Zan was released.

If you are not going to use a specialised tree, aligning your element is crucial.
Only volcano monsters are weak to ice at the moment, but I do play there when there are team orders or good daily orders to complete.
Gibarta has deceivingly good range and a very wide radius. The technique is powerful and stunlocks monsters, which is both good for yourself and your party members.

[Saffran]

If you want the dex as a damage leveling tool, then SunSol is right, you could get it through affixes. Having it on the mag is necessary if you want your native Dex to be high (to meet requirements) or if you want to have a Crux Mag. Nowadays with all the mag special items available, you can get all the Revival A's you want without actually raising a Crux, so... yeah.

You have one tree pattern with 1 point in Wind Mastery, 6 in Light mastery and 1 point unallotted. Reduce Light Mastery to 5, get Wand gear and place the final point into TAtk. That single last SP will save you 10 levels on your mag to meet requirements, 10 effing levels. It's immense, it's massive, it's well you get the idea.

Also, don't worry too much about this, we're getting new level caps and new abilities so we're getting skill tree resets soon enough. Just in case.