Braver Class Talk

[Selphea]

Guren comes from palette swap. One row of Guren x 3, another row of Gekka-Tsukimi-Gekka. If you open with Snatch Guren then swap palettes, the next PA that comes up is Tsukimi.

[Gamemako]

If Gamemako makes a claim to the contrary of Swiki then all he needs to do is prove it, simple.

Opposite is true. My numbers are consistent with swiki. The gap is where Swiki does not include jump normal gekka at all, or attempt to quantify jumping frames. I had to test that myself. Naturally, I ran control tests on everything to make sure the behavior was in line with swiki values.

The thing about DPS is finding opportunities to actually perform the combo. I believe all the numbers that have been provided, but Tsukimi > Gekka > normal 3 and the other setups are far less practical to actually use than normal > Gekka is, burns through PP faster (one of the main draws of normal > Gekka is to conserve PP for sustained DPS), and isn't always something that you can fit in.

Tsu-Gekka-normal is quite practical to use. Quick and incredibly easy. I snatch to initiate most of the time as it's part of closing to the target. Both that and jump normal gekka are usable in similar situations. PP efficiency is not significantly different -- normal 3 is 2 hits, so it's 1 normal to 1 15-PP PA in either case, plus nominal passive recovery (2 PP for jump normal, 3 PP for tsugekka).

I also used Gekka-Tsu-Guren for a while (I started from Asagiri->Tsu->Guren, which is my aerial suite that needs to be retired because Asagiri DPS is just too weak). I ultimately got lazy and went to Tsu-Gekka-Sakura instead because it's easier to initiate with snatch Tsu than with normal->Tsu or jump->Gekka. Guren in the third slot is really awkward to use for gap closing. Sakura is situational tool for me: lag-teleporting Magatsu weak spots are easier to face while grounded, Luther bicep is hard to hit with Hatou or Gekka, etc.

[LonelyGaruga]

If you use Snatch JA Combo to initiate Tsukimi, you can do the exact same thing with Gekka instead. Gekka is a better PA than Tsukimi. It's faster, does more damage, is more PP efficient (by virtue of more damage for the same PP), and more versatile. Saying what you do is out of laziness doesn't help either. And again, you can't Guard > Gekka with Tsukimi first. What do you even gain by putting Tsukimi first?

And if you're going to make a claim about the PP efficiency being more or less the same, please don't do so after already confirming there's a massive difference. Tsukimi > Gekka > normal 3 is 15 PP according to your numbers. Normal > Gekka is 7 PP according to your numbers. Normal > Gekka is half the cost, for...7.2% more DPS. So impressive.

And one of the biggest draws to Gekka is that you can basically use it forever because it costs so little. Burning through PP twice as fast is exactly the opposite of this goal. Your DPS flatlines if you run out of PP, so...yeah.

[Gamemako]

If you use Snatch JA Combo to initiate Tsukimi, you can do the exact same thing with Gekka instead. Gekka is a better PA than Tsukimi. It's faster, does more damage, is more PP efficient (by virtue of more damage for the same PP), and more versatile. Saying what you do is out of laziness doesn't help either. And again, you can't Guard > Gekka with Tsukimi first. What do you even gain by putting Tsukimi first?

You can't snatch JA Gekka from the ground without waiting a full second for the penalty jump. You actually need a pretty good elevation to get it off from the air, which is even more setup time. Gekka can only be used in the air, and you have to do some sort of setup to get it there. Tsu is a better setup than jump normal, providing better DPS and reliable timing. Gekka is less than half the damage of that combination. Furthermore, you keep arguing in favor of using Gekka in the first slot, which means you also have to have Gekka in the second slot for jump normal use, so both setups require the first two slots occupied. Even if you take Gekka-Tsu-x for the similar Tsu-Normal3-Gekka rotation, it's still better DPS than Gekka-Gekka-x with jump normals and doesn't offer up an insane number of opportunities for DPS loss like jump Gekka.

And if you're going to make a claim about the PP efficiency being more or less the same, please don't do so after already confirming there's a massive difference. Tsukimi > Gekka > normal 3 is 15 PP according to your numbers. Normal > Gekka is 7 PP according to your numbers. Normal > Gekka is half the cost, for...7.2% more DPS. So impressive.

It is twice the PP cost for fully twice the damage. Normal-> Gekka is 903 effective notation for 7 PP without any additional PP recovery. Tsu -> Gekka -> Normal is 1800 notation for 15 PP under the same circumstances. That is 129/PP vs. 120/PP. The Gekka is less than half of the total damage of the tsu-gekka-normal rotation.

[LonelyGaruga]

You can jump > step > Gekka to get Snatch JA Combo. It's faster than normal > Gekka but less PP efficient, so I'm not much of a fan, but it's something you can do.

I don't use Gekka > Tsukimi > Gekka precisely because of that. Trying to fit Tsukimi into the palette in the first place is wasteful. Would much rather Gekka > Gekka > x.

It's twice the damage, but it takes almost twice as long. Something you seem to not be understanding. DPS, not total damage. The DPS per PP spent is far superior for normal > Gekka than it is for Tsukimi > Gekka > normal 3.

Honestly, I'm not going to continue replying if I need to explain that a third time.

[stroodle]

I've been away from PSO2 for a few months and was I was thinking about getting a bow for my braver.

What bullet bows is everyone using?

I think I should get the イデアルシューター (Ideal Shooter) since I would be mainly using it against bosses.
Or maybe the オフスティアボーゲン (Austere Bōgen) or エーデル・アーロ (Edel Arrow)?

Any suggestions?

[KazukiQZ]

All of this argument about Gekka, but I can't still determine what to setup for it lol

So, basically palette setup is (Gekka > Gekka > x), and you can do either (jump)>normal > Gekka (rinse and repeat), or counter > Gekka?


Anyway, I'm interested in Bow side of my Katana focused BRHU. The planned tree looks something like this:
http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skill...0fdoIb0000000j

For BRHU, Edel Arrow (hidden pot) should be fine? I don't plan to get 13* for Bow anytime soon, but atm I got no decent bow, aside from a 11* one lol

How about palette setup? Since I'm katana focused, I can only have 1 Bow palette (2 free palettes, occasionally). Is (Banish - Kamikaze - Chase) good enough? Chase might be swapped occasionally to Master Shot to shoot thing from far. Or is there other PAs that might be useful?

I've heard about Raikou bow. Having that non-full ele should be fine? Since it's only to activate the pot and then switch to the real bossing Bow.

[Kayarine]

I've been away from PSO2 for a few months and was I was thinking about getting a bow for my braver.

What bullet bows is everyone using?

I think I should get the イデアルシューター (Ideal Shooter) since I would be mainly using it against bosses.
Or maybe the オフスティアボーゲン (Austere Bōgen) or エーデル・アーロ (Edel Arrow)?

Any suggestions?

Current top bows (for BrHu. BrGu and other ranged purposes would likely shuffle the gryphon/ares/edel placements around):

1. Austere (Difficult to get/expensive to bring to 60 element)
2. Ideal (Easily accessible and powerful, but requires running Challenge Mode for 540k miles)
3. Gryphon (Potentially easy to get as long as Gal Gryphon is available, which it'll be in the Christmas EQ)
4. Ares (Will become easier to get with the Christmas update, but potential isn't suitable for boss-only EQs)
5. Edel Arrow (Easiest to get, can get one from Zieg then buy another for 50 element. Recommended to pair up with a Divine Raikou to reduce RS cooldown)

It depends on which one you're willing to get according to effort/time taken, I think.

Anyway, I'm interested in Bow side of my Katana focused BRHU. The planned tree looks something like this:
http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skill...0fdoIb0000000j

For BRHU, Edel Arrow (hidden pot) should be fine? I don't plan to get 13* for Bow anytime soon, but atm I got no decent bow, aside from a 11* one lol

How about palette setup? Since I'm katana focused, I can only have 1 Bow palette (2 free palettes, occasionally). Is (Banish - Kamikaze - Chase) good enough? Chase might be swapped occasionally to Master Shot to shoot thing from far. Or is there other PAs that might be useful?

I've heard about Raikou bow. Having that non-full ele should be fine? Since it's only to activate the pot and then switch to the real bossing Bow.

1. Tree seems fine, it's what I use myself.

2. Edel is currently the best non-13* I think.

3. Yeah, that's all you need.

4. Having a +30, random element Raikou is fine since it's not used for damage purposes.

[AmanoMai]

the power notation on rapid shot skill (34% at lv5)
only affect normal shot or it also affect PA?

[Kayarine]

Normal shots only.