Bouncer Class Discussion

[Zephyrion]

So I was messing around with the Jet Boots Tech Arts S Charge ring and started wondering if there wouldn't be applications to improve casting with it, by taking advantage of Strike gust's very early JA window.
As far as I'm concerned this combination is pretty cool to use but I'm fairly easily pleased, so here are the cold hard numbers:

- Strike gust's earliest JA frame occurs 0.2 secs into the PA.
- Strike gust type zero's earliest naturally is at 0.6s,
|_ A frame perfect drop kick from an aerial usage grants one at like 0.4s,
|_ From the ground you can't JA in time before the shifta part begins, and thus it's slightly slower, somewhere between the two.

Sadly type zero's lower cost is largely moot here imo, since you have to be much more precise for a JA frame that's barely worth the effort outside of boosting the slower charging techs.

So:
Used with the basic Strike gust, since the charge time reduction is 50%, we're essentially talking about a -0.3s cast time on most technics without a concentrated craft, that costs 25 PP. Note that I think this is no matter what very useful on a first cast, since you need a JA source anyway and Strike gust's is likely one of the fastest around, allowing a pretty quick engage no matter the tech. Outside of that though, the cost is pretty hefty, and these are still JB techs.

Aaaand I kinda need help in determining if that's actually worth anything in the grand scheme of things. For Bo/Fi, Fo/Bo even?
What do you guys think?

Imo, this ring is decent for Bo/Fi, but using it along with PA is only useful to get faster vintos rotations, since the charge time reduction doesn't warrant wasting PP in an empty PA. This ring can be very useful for TAJAing different techs together for some elements. I honestly prefer using other general L-rings like mate lovers or air reversal (unless you already slapped them onto units) over this one, ince most of the concentrated techs you have go fast enough already !

[Cyclon]

Imo, this ring is decent for Bo/Fi, but using it along with PA is only useful to get faster vintos rotations, since the charge time reduction doesn't warrant wasting PP in an empty PA. This ring can be very useful for TAJAing different techs together for some elements. I honestly prefer using other general L-rings like mate lovers or air reversal (unless you already slapped them onto units) over this one, ince most of the concentrated techs you have go fast enough already !

Sadly, the ring only affects the PA -> Technic combination. Technic -> Technic doesn't do anything.
Otherwise yes there are the Vinto rotations applications, but I'm actually trying to find out if there's something else beyond those.

You do have a point that concentrated techs already provide quick casting, that being said more options is something(half the techs don't have concentrated recipes, and there's also type zeros, notably Zonde type zero, which gets ~0.45 less cast time through this), it's good for status crafts, or if you didn't go for concentrated for whatever reason, and it also mitigates any + charge time demerit.
Plus as it triggers the tech arts skills, that compensates the additional cost a little for Bo/Fi.

And again, the engage stuff is definitely nice imo. As a comparison, from what I can tell Force's earliest JA frame is shared by a normal rod attack, an uncharged aoe tech, or an uncharged projectile tech, at 0.6s.

Let's take, say, Megid as an example, the fastest a Force can pull out a JAed Megid is 1.6 seconds(well 1.54 technically with efficient 3), while a Jet boots user with the ring can do it in 0.7 seconds. I feel it is at least pretty good in that regard.

Sooo... no, not good, not worth bothering with, end of the story?

[Altiea]

It's a niche. It's entire purpose for existing is to make charging Element faster, which means faster Vinto rotations. So it's not terribly useful aside from a sliiiiiight increase in DPS, but you could probably slot into a 12* Unit and call it a day.

In terms of actual casting applications, though? Problem is that you're 1. Spending 20+ extra PP to save a little time that in the end barely matters, and 2. JBs are simply not good casting weapons.

[Cyclon]

In terms of actual casting applications, though? Problem is that you're 1. Spending 20+ extra PP to save a little time that in the end barely matters

Eh, I'd definitely be inclined to disagree here. There's a reason concentrated crafts or Flame tech S charge are considered amazing.
Though I can't deny the PP cost is prohibitive.

and 2. JBs are simply not good casting weapons.

By the way, is there a reason for that besides the slightly lower T-atk, and JB not getting a 10% boost on Fo/Bo unlike Rods which is admittedly a huge issue here? Like are they slower or something?

[hibike]

type 0 gust is the best

that is all

[Zephyrion]

Eh, I'd definitely be inclined to disagree here. There's a reason concentrated crafts or Flame tech S charge are considered amazing.
Though I can't deny the PP cost is prohibitive.


By the way, is there a reason for that besides the slightly lower T-atk, and JB not getting a 10% boost on Fo/Bo unlike Rods which is admittedly a huge issue here? Like are they slower or something?

Actually, Jet boots themselves are very decent casting weapons. a BO/FI with boots gets a bit more damage than a TE/FI off a mastered element. Thing is you need to sub FI, so you lose all the good skills from HU tree and your DB usage is kinda hindered by positioning and Tech Arts skills. So you'd rather get shitty tech damage and gain access to the rest.

[Cyclon]

Actually, Jet boots themselves are very decent casting weapons. a BO/FI with boots gets a bit more damage than a TE/FI off a mastered element. Thing is you need to sub FI, so you lose all the good skills from HU tree and your DB usage is kinda hindered by positioning and Tech Arts skills. So you'd rather get shitty tech damage and gain access to the rest.

I guess that's fair.
Well, thanks a lot for the answers guys

[Moffen]

They said point assist was going to be player dmg based but one of the skills that boosts point assist dmg by 10% is main class.

Was gonna go tech slinging Bo/Su but nevermind.

[GHNeko]

They said point assist was going to be player dmg based but one of the skills that boosts point assist dmg by 10% is main class.

Was gonna go tech slinging Bo/Su but muh dreams have been killed.
I cri.

I'm hoping they remove that restriction.

[ralf542]

How's the the new DB ring? Worth to use it?