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  1. #2051

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    Thank you for your replies but... my friend is rather straightforward and she really doesn't know how to do anything else than spamming Techniques. So, a Wand Wack based Fi/Te or Te/Fi isn't an option. We have to go on pure Technique casts, here.
    Terrence Jim Shynett Ndhgg Shesha Brunhilde

  2. #2052

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    This is going to sound weird, but Talis TATK Hero. If you want all Dark, all day, on any enemy, Hero is the only class that gets full multipliers. Every other class, you get screwed by no mastery or needing to match weak element.

  3. #2053

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terrence View Post
    Thank you for your replies but... my friend is rather straightforward and she really doesn't know how to do anything else than spamming Techniques. So, a Wand Wack based Fi/Te or Te/Fi isn't an option. We have to go on pure Technique casts, here.
    TE/FO would be the way to go then. No need for tons of gear. A decent Talis is more than enough, plus it has support techniques for when dark techs don't fare so well

  4. #2054

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    then prolly a classic fire/light/dark fo/te is your best starting bet and would be easiest to level since te/fo can be levelled/used with 1 talis, then try to incorporate fi in there later once fo and te are at 80

    here's what i would personally use:

    http://pso2skillsimulator.com/simula...pz.5J0.7FP.6*0

    on fo side sp in photon flare, t-atk-up1/2, charge keep/rod save, rod shoot and fast talis are interchangeable depending if you like rods/p.flare and such

    can try and squeeze ice in there(maybe new dragon eq will need ice...), but normally fire is enough to mob with and gives you some buster quest capability

    on te side ditching shifta skills and t-atk-up1 can get you wind for a full mastery sub, but in my case i have extra skill trees so i opt out for some better mpa buffs(in case no te) and bit of atk on each tree

    optimal endgame for casting like most have said is to tailor multiple fo and te trees to a fi sub since it just got a good buff to stances and most single colors have enough spam techs now for taja rotations. te/fi can also smack really well, has raid boss color tech masteries and only needs 1 qliff wand to cast so thats why its preffered option right now, but anything fire/ice/zap related of course fo/fi will be chosen

    personally ill probably convert 3 fo and 3 te trees to have a maxed out fo/fi and te/fi for each color, but as you can see the biggest dilemma facing casters right now is why put in that much effort into something that will only end up not being as flexible as hero with 1 tree and 3 weps 1 of which you can buy

  5. #2055

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selphea View Post
    This is going to sound weird, but Talis TATK Hero. If you want all Dark, all day, on any enemy, Hero is the only class that gets full multipliers. Every other class, you get screwed by no mastery or needing to match weak element.
    Thanks for your answer, Selphea. I've noted that too. I'm currently playing a full T-ATK Talis-only HEro (which isn't optimal of course) and when I decided to use more Techniques (SaFoie Type-0, GiBarta, GiGrants Type-0, ...) to balance my lack of AOE, I realized the damage output was pretty good. But there's no way that lazy friend of mine could level up four Classes to 75 (S, R, T then the HEro itself) anytime soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyrion View Post
    TE/FO would be the way to go then. No need for tons of gear. A decent Talis is more than enough, plus it has support techniques for when dark techs don't fare so well
    Thanks for the info, Zephyrion. The only thing I'm afraid of with that choice rather than going Fo/Te is to realized losing Element Conversion (with a 60 Dark Element Rod) to gain TEchter-main Boosts isn't worth it... which will obviously be the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by mr.chills View Post
    then prolly a classic fire/light/dark fo/te is your best starting bet and would be easiest to level since te/fo can be levelled/used with 1 talis, then try to incorporate fi in there later once fo and te are at 80

    here's what i would personally use:

    http://pso2skillsimulator.com/simula...pz.5J0.7FP.6*0

    on fo side sp in photon flare, t-atk-up1/2, charge keep/rod save, rod shoot and fast talis are interchangeable depending if you like rods/p.flare and such

    can try and squeeze ice in there(maybe new dragon eq will need ice...), but normally fire is enough to mob with and gives you some buster quest capability

    on te side ditching shifta skills and t-atk-up1 can get you wind for a full mastery sub, but in my case i have extra skill trees so i opt out for some better mpa buffs(in case no te) and bit of atk on each tree

    optimal endgame for casting like most have said is to tailor multiple fo and te trees to a fi sub since it just got a good buff to stances and most single colors have enough spam techs now for taja rotations. te/fi can also smack really well, has raid boss color tech masteries and only needs 1 qliff wand to cast so thats why its preffered option right now, but anything fire/ice/zap related of course fo/fi will be chosen

    personally ill probably convert 3 fo and 3 te trees to have a maxed out fo/fi and te/fi for each color, but as you can see the biggest dilemma facing casters right now is why put in that much effort into something that will only end up not being as flexible as hero with 1 tree and 3 weps 1 of which you can buy
    Thank you for your explanation, mr.chills. I will try to follow the way you advised. But you're totally right about the HEro flexibility, sadly. Let's hope the potential second part of EP5 Balance Changes will close the gap even more or else the HEro meta will never end.
    Terrence Jim Shynett Ndhgg Shesha Brunhilde

  6. #2056
    The Lone Gamer of the Apockalypse Zorak000's Avatar
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    I think a nabarta type-0 tap opens up TAJA combos with single techs; it only costs the 10pp for activation (before taja pp save) and the extremely small amount of frames nabara 0 has if you only tap it.

    they really need to move dark/light/wind masteries onto the force tree somehow; and give techer something meaningful to replace those.

  7. #2057
    The Lone Gamer of the Apockalypse Zorak000's Avatar
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    the halloween talis is ok if you don't already have a good dark talis (austere/astra/zeinesis/quilphad), however you would need to have a really really good craft on concentrated gimegid, or use power-modded megid/samegid uncharged. even for baby's first dark talis, that seems like a bit of extra effort to put yourself through

  8. #2058

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    oh balls, the lumiholy talis is confirmed not to work with folmegion... seeeeega

    i second the idea of consolidating all the mastery skills onto fo
    then making charge time and pp cost being separate skills with compound cooldown reduction as a 3rd auxillary effect skill (maybe making them main class only)

    i think they should move element convert onto techer thus allowing fo to function optimally with 1 good rod and 1 good talis and put focus into fo optimizing for rainbow trees, giving them slack on their gear reqs.

    then te could optimize for rainbow gear but use 1 tree and can proxy said rainbow for e.convert with e-change ring. this would also let it have a casting specialization, making te/fo an actual thing and not just a compromise. even psycho drive would still work that way since its te-able

    just some rough thoughts and wishful thinking though
    Last edited by mr.chills; Oct 12, 2017 at 07:48 AM.

  9. #2059

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    @above
    I think losing ele masteries on Te will kill Fo/Te completely because then Te tree will only amount to 20% on EWH, which is literally less than Average Stance of all things. To a less extent, Te/Fi and Te/Br will be losing out a lot too, losing 10.7% damage (1.44 / 1.3) on their techs.

    I think what needs to go to Te is actually Talis Bonus. After all, Talis is actually a main weapon for Te too and is being neglected on the class. It can probably be even be Te main only, and Fo gets a 20% general multiplier to compensate.
    So compared to current FoTe:
    FoTe Rod is 20% stronger, Talis unaffected.
    TeFo Talis ~22% stronger, Rod ~2% stronger
    In essence, the tradeoff is Ele Con (30%) against Talis Bonus (20%) and Shifta Strike (10%). i.e. FoTe's has superior compound tech burst, but TeFo becomes the more consistently strong Tech spammer with access to Te main skills.

    TeFi and TeBr also gets to finally use Talis with Wand.
    Last edited by escarlata; Oct 12, 2017 at 10:53 AM.

  10. #2060
    The Lone Gamer of the Apockalypse Zorak000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by escarlata View Post
    @above
    I think losing ele masteries on Te will kill Fo/Te completely because then Te tree will only amount to 20% on EWH, which is literally less than Average Stance of all things. To a less extent, Te/Fi and Te/Br will be losing out a lot too, losing 10.7% damage (1.44 / 1.3) on their techs.
    fo/te already only really amounts to utilizing elemental weak hit; since outside of compound techs you are only ever using a single set of elemental mastery skills. /te is mostly only there for access to light mastery for darkers and baransion, dark mastery for fomelgion, and possibly most importantly, all of the pp regen skills to help keep force from running dry as often. fighter sub gets loads of power, but you are basically limited to only using fire, ice, or lighting depending on your tree; and lightning gets preference here since bolt tech pp save helps out a lot.

    techer on the other hand, should get something like elemental weak hit 2, something that benefits both wand bonking and casting, but the problem there is that next update that idea is mostly "isnt this just elemental stance"

    really, what I would like to see is them breaking force's dependency on techer sub, turn force into a class that specializes in two or three elements of the player's choosing, and make techer into a rainbow-generalist. force's multipliers for techs would still be higher than techer's, however techer will always be hitting elemental weaknesses, so a lightning/ice/light force wouldnt be quite as strong against stuff weak to fire as a techer using fire techs; though of course if something was weak to light, the force would be beating out techer's damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.chills View Post
    element convert onto techer thus allowing fo to function optimally with 1 good rod and 1 good talis and put focus into fo optimizing for rainbow trees, giving them slack on their gear reqs.
    force should keep elemental convert. first off, giving that skill to techer would be horrible since L/Wand Element Change does not work with elemental conversion (neither does Jet Boots Gear for that matter). after that, if a force is only focusing on 2 or 3 elements, then they really only need 2-3 weapons; and at most a rod and talis for each element they have skill points invested into. if anything it's an omni-specialist skill. it lets you specialize in an element, but you can use it to specialize in -any- element.
    Quote Originally Posted by escarlata View Post
    I think what needs to go to Te is actually Talis Bonus. After all, Talis is actually a main weapon for Te too and is being neglected on the class. It can probably be even be Te main only, and Fo gets a 20% general multiplier to compensate.
    I kinda feel like talis on techer is more like rifle on gunner. it's there for when you REALLY dont want to be using a wand for whatever reason; like if anga is resisting wands, I forget if wand still has a longer casting animation than rod and talis though. in this sense, force is kinda like ranger, in that it uses both weapons for various reasons.

    EDIT: of course this would come with them re-adjusting skills/skill point reqs. we would have to eliminate all "- mastery 2" skills, buff mastery 1s to be at least close to the original amount (1.4x if they want to nerf force coming out of this deal, 1.45x or 1.5x if they want to buff force). also cut all the extra element skills down to 5 points; make freeze keep 1 point, maybe consolidate freeze ignition into a single skill.
    Last edited by Zorak000; Oct 12, 2017 at 01:34 PM.

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