Force Discussion

[Perfect Chaos]

^ 1st to 3rd deal 100% power notation.
4th to 6th deal 200% power notation.
7th deals 800% power notation.

Uncharged hit has half that damage.

To amend the amendment, the 7th hit, if used uncharged, does only a quarter of the charged damage, so 200% power notation. Due to the harsher penalty on the last hit, it should always be charged no matter what.

[Ryuuguu]

1st fote tree should be fire light dark

http://arks-layer.com/skillsim/skill...00000lo000000j

for fire techs get blazing for all of them and charge time reduction on illfoie (and moar ticks on shifta)

light techs just get concentrated ragrants and dont craft illgrants due to all it being good for is status effects anyway

dark techs concentrated gimegid and umbral namegid

Gotcha thanks. That's the info I was looking for.

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

Does zonde 0 make lightning less terrible somehow (and by extention lightning + wind)? I like seeing lots of numbers.

[Altiea]

Does zonde 0 make lightning less terrible somehow (and by extention lightning + wind)? I like seeing lots of numbers.

It's definitely an improvement, although you might have trouble hitting some things. *coughcan'thitvardhasomacough*

[Shadowstarkirby]

What exactly makes the following techniques bad or underused (as in, never see them used)?

Fire:
Nafoie

Ice:
Sabarta
Nabarta

Lightning:
Razonde
Nazonde

Wind:
Zan
Gizan

Light:
Grants
Gigrants
Nagrants

Dark:
Samegid

[Maninbluejumpsuit]

It's definitely an improvement

Thought it would be more than just an 'improvement'. It's over 2k power. Aside from varda soma, is it also weak against moving targets? What are all the things that hold zonde 0 back?

[Zephyrion]

What exactly makes the following techniques bad or underused (as in, never see them used)?

Fire:
Nafoie

Ice:
Sabarta
Nabarta

Lightning:
Razonde
Nazonde

Wind:
Zan
Gizan

Light:
Grants
Gigrants
Nagrants

Dark:
Samegid

Some of them have situational uses but most of them either have too low damage, or what they do is covered by other techniques.

-Nafoie is really not PP efficient, even if it does more damage than other fire techs. it's also slow and can miss, where stuff like Foie and Rafoie will almost always (always for rafoie) hit their targets

-Sabarta is situational. It's the only pefectly accurate spell with Ilbarta for Ice, and has splash damage., But veeery slow charge time. and what it does is covered by other Ice spells (rabarta for zondeeled mobs, Ilbarta for beefy single targets)

-Nabarta is PP efficient, but you can't redirect it with talis, and using it with rod means you're standing right in front of mobs with your paper thin defenses...nope. Also terrible dps in the end, so really not usable for anything else but SH fun.

-Razonde is veeeery useful. High damage, decent AoE if you place a Talis at the right height, and if you craft zonde for type zero, it will be your most PP efficient offensive spell ( gizonde so costy and inferior damage if mobs aren't clustered properly). It's AoE is ridiculously small on the ground though, so you'll always have to be wary of height whenever using it.

-Nazonde is meh damage and you're a sitting duck when using it, so you almost never go for it just for damage. But a crazy number of hits if you mash dat button means high chances of afflicting shock. Zondeel > Nazonde with a Talis is almost guaranteed shock status effect for mobs, and also helps tremendously against bosses vulnerable to shock like Knight Gear or Grpyhon.

-Zan is meh damage, no crowd control, and you can't keep them on spinning on screen forever like you could before, next !

-Gizan is terrible damage for an AoE spell, you can use it to get out of trouble when surrounded, but all the other wind spells (except Zan) are better in every other situation.

-Grants/Gigrants : Concentrated Ragrants exists : next !

-Nagrants : can be used for crowd control because it stays out forever, so you can place a few charged nagrants at strategic spots to defend places or reposition yourself. For anything else...conentrated Ragrants exists.

-Samegid : only works from very far for all the hits to connect, and even when they do, total damage is only slightly higher than megid, which is more precise and has better Aoe on impact.

I hope that's the kind of answer you were expecting, if not, sorry for the wall of text

Thought it would be more than just an 'improvement'. It's over 2k power. Aside from varda soma, is it also weak against moving targets? What are all the things that hold zonde 0 back?

As you said it's really weak against everything that moves fast and/or resists zondeel effect, wouldn't be terrible if this craft didn't replace the only lightning spell that is pinpoint accurate.Also kinda bad against things that don't flinch since the last hit is responsible for the bulk of the damage, and stuff can get away during the small lighting rain.
On a more positive note, zondeel > craft zero zonde, completely mows down mobs. It also finally makes this (along with crafted type zero Nazan). a decent pick (and god knows lightning needed one) for banish combos as FO/BR : the timing is tight but banish can register two fully charged type zero zonde for hilarious damage, making it the 2nd best pick after Ilbarta/banish damage-wise !

[Shadowstarkirby]

I hope that's the kind of answer you were expecting, if not, sorry for the wall of text

It's exactly what I was looking for, thank you so much. Gonna tweak the techniques I use based on this.

[nguuuquaaa]

-Sabarta is situational. It's the only pefectly accurate spell with Ilbarta for Ice, and has splash damage., But veeery slow charge time. and what it does is covered by other Ice spells (rabarta for zondeeled mobs, Ilbarta for beefy single targets)

-Nabarta is PP efficient, but you can't redirect it with talis, and using it with rod means you're standing right in front of mobs with your paper thin defenses...nope. Also terrible dps in the end, so really not usable for anything else but SH fun.

-Grants/Gigrants : Concentrated Ragrants exists : next !

-Nagrants : can be used for crowd control because it stays out forever, so you can place a few charged nagrants at strategic spots to defend places or reposition yourself. For anything else...conentrated Ragrants exists.

- Innocent Form Sabarta/NabartaGrants is good.
- Concentrated Gigrants is a better mobbing option than Ragrants
- Nagrants has good DPP and Multi recipe grants 10% Panic rate.

[Flaoc]

- Concentrated Gigrants is a better mobbing option than Ragrants

hahahahahahahahaahahhahaaa no absolutely not.. the only decent thing u listed was innocent form sabarta/nabarta zondeel+ragrants=everything dies and gifoie is still better than gigrants even off ele

oh and on a completely different topic since i saw it mentioned nafoie is fire's bossing tech under ppc.. while the projectile is awkward and slow it is pretty precise at close range (think fang/snow banthers head without having to declaw that kitty as just an example) it also has the highest fire dps.. safoie is easier to use in most situations for bossing though.. and to an extent gifoie though i wouldnt exactly call gifoie "bossing" but it can work if needed (like falke leone)