Force Discussion

[Perfect Chaos]

Yeah... KazukiQZ's post saying that 11* Rods being better than 13* Rods was using a damage formula that is completely wrong, so I hope people don't go spreading that information. LOL
The only time that a 11* Rod would out-damage a 13* is when a max crafted Rod is compared to Xie's Yozakura Rod.

[dr apocalipsis]

That makes more sense.

So wich element to every one of the 12 and 13* rods I said?

Money will be burning in my hands at next boosted week.

[KazukiQZ]

Yeah... KazukiQZ's post saying that 11* Rods being better than 13* Rods was using a damage formula that is completely wrong, so I hope people don't go spreading that information. LOL
The only time that a 11* Rod would out-damage a 13* is when a max crafted Rod is compared to Xie's Yozakura Rod.

Huhu my bad =3=


edit: While editing post, this one is still unanswered:

My own question: Currently I used uncrafted Koushousen, Gadianna and Seimei Kikami. Should I consider them to be crafted?
I did use a crafted Green Duel Gaze as the increase is pretty noticable, but I'm not sure with the other element talis, since their T-Atk is rather close. And how's the damage toward UQ/XH enemies with crafted talis?
Extra note: I only aim ExLv8 for 10* weapon if I want them crafted. But if can, do tell me how much benefit I can get from ExLv8 to max Extend lv11.
My 2 FO char has 564 and 614 Dex respectively, if this info help any.

tldr; What's the minimum damage of a Talis, ExLv8 vs. ExLv11 (max) against the enemies at XH/UQ level with highest DEX?

[Dephinix]

Yeah... KazukiQZ's post saying that 11* Rods being better than 13* Rods was using a damage formula that is completely wrong, so I hope people don't go spreading that information. LOL
The only time that a 11* Rod would out-damage a 13* is when a max crafted Rod is compared to Xie's Yozakura Rod.

What was wrong about it?

Okay. Good. Now... Do what I did that put it in your storage until you can get at least 55 element on it, since Bert Rodan will still outdamage it until then (I'm counting average damage for Slave Sage, since you won't always have over half PP).

My 4rt damage calc thingy: http://4rt.info/psod/?j5frO

[Perfect Chaos]

Assuming Gold-tier craft's DEX bonus is proportionally as good as the highest Silva-tier craft's DEX bonus:
The 614 DEX character would benefit from crafting all three of those Talises.
The 564 DEX character would loss on average 36 T-ATK on Seimei Kikami, and on average only 5 and 8 T-ATK on Gadianna and Koushousen, respectively.

Although, I would suspect that Gold-tier would give a better DEX bonus, proportionally, to Silva-tier, so Gadianna and Koushousen might pull out ahead for both characters.

You should be upgrading Seimei Kikami to Nox Crig if possible, though.

What was wrong about it?

My 4rt damage calc thingy: http://4rt.info/psod/?j5frO

Check the quick questions thread for what he did.

As for your calculations, I'm not sure what you're trying to say with it.
Also, first of all, the first quote of mine that you quoted implied that all weapons were max element with potentials applied, since the subject was max possible damage.
The second quote was referring to the average damage from having potential on and potential off, not the average damage variance. It also took into account _the_importer's below average ATK affixes, which your simulation does not. (Also label your bars to make it easier for others.)

[Dephinix]

Check the quick questions thread for what he did.

Oh man, thought you both were talking about that old ass post. Really need to stay to one thread per discussion. >.>
Nevermind me then! I'm going back to lurking.

[KazukiQZ]

Assuming Gold-tier craft's DEX bonus is proportionally as good as the highest Silva-tier craft's DEX bonus:
The 614 DEX character would benefit from crafting all three of those Talises.
The 564 DEX character would loss on average 36 T-ATK on Seimei Kikami, and on average only 5 and 8 T-ATK on Gadianna and Koushousen, respectively.

Although, I would suspect that Gold-tier would give a better DEX bonus, proportionally, to Silva-tier, so Gadianna and Koushousen might pull out ahead for both characters.

You should be upgrading Seimei Kikami to Nox Crig if possible, though.

Check the quick questions thread for what he did.

As for your calculations, I'm not sure what you're trying to say with it.
Also, first of all, the first quote of mine that you quoted implied that all weapons were max element with potentials applied, since the subject was max possible damage.
The second quote was referring to the average damage from having potential on and potential off, not the average damage variance. It also took into account _the_importer's below average ATK affixes, which your simulation does not. (Also label your bars to make it easier for others.)

I see. So no solid info on Gold-Tier weapon craft yet?

As for Seimei to Nox Krieg, I don't have maxed Dark Masteries ( 2/10 and 3/10 ) so I'm not really focusing on upgrading it yet. Still, would like to know how much an upgrade percentage is from Seimei Kikami to Nox Krieg.

[Perfect Chaos]

Still, would like to know how much an upgrade percentage is from Seimei Kikami to Nox Krieg.

Roughly 4.5% it seems.

[megamegaman]

Im new to force and I want to do an Ice build, what techs should i focus on and how should my skill tree look like?

[Perfect Chaos]

All ice techs are useful, really.
Barta (with Ice Fang 2 craft) is best for freezing, especially when the enemies line up. Also does a good amount of damage as well. Most preferred ice tech when enemies are lined up instead of clustered together. Use recipe 2 instead of 3 for this one, since 3 has a charge time demerit, which cuts down on DPS and usefulness in general.
Gi-Barta (Ice Fang 3) is the best one for killing mobs with range.
Ra-Barta (Multi 3) is almost as powerful and similar in usage to Gi-Barta, but has a much higher freeze rate.
Il-Barta (Ice Fang 3) is the boss killer. It's the only ice tech that people use both with and/or without the Innocent Form potential. If you don't plan to use Innocent Form, then Concentrated 3 craft recipe is an option as well.
Na-Barta (Ice Fang 3) is always uncharged, so it needs to be used with a weapon with Innocent Form to be effective. Great for mobbing and becomes more PP efficient over Gi-Barta in the long run (like after 2 seconds of holding it; forgot the exact number and too lazy to do the math right now).
Sa-Barta (Ice Fang 3) is another Innocent Form-only tech, due to its long charge time. It has good long range single-target damage. Good for stand-alone small-fry that are out of Gi-Barta range. Il-Barta is not very PP efficient for small-fry since they'll die before Il-Barta's advantage in damage/PP kicks in, so this is better for those situations.

For skill tree, something like THIS.
For FO, you can sacrifice Charge Escape and Freeze Keep for more Photon Flare if you want. If you don't plan to use Elysion/Boots of Serafi with their Innocent Form potential, move all of the points from Normal Tech Advance to Technique Up 2.
For TE, there's a lot of room for variation, since you can pick from different tech mastery combinations. Light should be maxed, though, since Darkers are the most common enemy, and also because it'll boost the damage for the upcoming Barantsion compound tech. Wind is there to boost Zanverse a bit, but if you prefer to use Dark as a tertiary element, you can move it there. You can also sacrifice points in Technique Up 1 (and 2) to max a second element on the TE tree, as well, sacrificing a bit of Ice and Light damage for a lot of damage for a third element. If you plan to use Elysion, 1 point in Wand Gear and 1 point in Wand Lovers is also an option.