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  1. #21

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    Just noticed that the +1 tick of uncharged Shifta/Deband is also mentioned on the Adrenaline skill section.
    What Multi recipe does is decreases the hit interval, but keeps the same effect duration. So for example, Shifta/Deband/Resta lasts, starting from the very first tick at 0 seconds, for 1 second uncharged and 3 seconds charged. So after each second, the 2nd (and 3rd and 4th for charged) tick comes. Multi makes the hit interval 0.7 seconds instead of 1 second. So uncharged, you still get the the 2nd tick sooner when it's crafted with Multi (so Multi is not completely worthless when used uncharged). But since a third tick happens at 1.4 seconds, longer than the duration of uncharged usage, it doesn't get a 3rd tick when uncharged. The fifth tick happens at 2.8 seconds after the first tick, so multi recipe adds an extra tick since that's under the 3 second effect duration of charged usage. With Multi, the fifth tick actually comes sooner than the fourth tick of non-Multi. The same concept applies to Multi recipes of other techs, just with different numbers applied to them.
    Last edited by Perfect Chaos; Jan 19, 2015 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Typo
    Ship 02 | ID: Perfect Chaos
    Characters
    Zelda (Newman ALL @ 95) | Sheik (Newman Bo/Fi/Ph/Et/Te @ 95) | Samus (Cast Gu/Ra/Fi/Lu @ 95)
    Ganondorf (Dewman Fi/Hu/Et/Lu @ 95) | Link (Newman Br/Hu/Hr/Et @ 95) | Deoxys (Cast Lu @ 95)
    Level 50 Technique Customization (max level) using Craft Tech Maker 4. Feel free to message me in game to request any recipe(s).

  2. #22

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    I got myself a Glass Macaro, not sure why but for some reasons it feels as if the knockback nullification feels almost none, or I just have a bad RNG while playing it during TD2 XH.

    Also is the new wand which Noiya Nyau drops any good? I already got a light one myself, but I'm not sure whether I want to grind it. Would be a nice "utility" wand though.

    By the way, should I use Chase Arrow as well after applying Banish Arrow? Doesn't feel like the arrows have enough time to land before Banish Arrow Explodes, or hell it feels like Namegid explodes after Banish Arrow does if I do it. I'm still scared playing UQ as TEBR as opposed to TEHU. I guess I'm living too much in my comfort zone of having 2000HP and being almost invincible

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selphia View Post
    Wand Reactor actually diminishes the value of SATK by inflating your total SATK. 25 SATK could be 1% damage with a Fighter weapon with low SATK, but when you switch to a Wand and get a huge chunk of SATK from Reactor, the impact of 25 SATK becomes a lot less.
    Yep. Difference between a pure S-ATK mag and a pure T-ATK mag is about 2% in favor of the S-ATK mag right now. And that's just for melee. Techs are about 10% stronger with a T-ATK mag. So the only reason to go S-ATK is Te/Hu, since Te/Fi and Te/Br does both melee and techs effectively. And Te/Hu has the highest unconditional Wand Gear modifier, so even Te/Hu does T-ATK well if skipping Hunter weapons. Since Wand Gear is the brunt of wand melee's damage output for mobs, which are, as repeatedly said everywhere on the forum, about 90% of the game, T-ATK is simply the most logical choice to focus. Mags aren't even important for equipping things by going pure T-ATK, since the only relevant wand that cannot be equipped with base stats alone is Acru Carta, and solely for newmans, and by a measly 1 DEX. Every other race can equip all the best wands with a pure T-ATK mag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Chaos View Post
    Just noticed that the +1 tick of uncharged Shifta/Deband is also mentioned on the Adrenaline skill section.
    Yeah, swiki didn't really specify that +1 didn't work for uncharged techs, so I thought they did. Either it wasn't specified or I missed it due to lack of sleep. ctrl + f "Multi" should find any other areas where I provide this false information, so it should be easy to correct. Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by yucachann View Post
    I got myself a Glass Macaro, not sure why but for some reasons it feels as if the knockback nullification feels almost none, or I just have a bad RNG while playing it during TD2 XH.

    Also is the new wand which Noiya Nyau drops any good? I already got a light one myself, but I'm not sure whether I want to grind it. Would be a nice "utility" wand though.

    By the way, should I use Chase Arrow as well after applying Banish Arrow? Doesn't feel like the arrows have enough time to land before Banish Arrow Explodes, or hell it feels like Namegid explodes after Banish Arrow does if I do it. I'm still scared playing UQ as TEBR as opposed to TEHU. I guess I'm living too much in my comfort zone of having 2000HP and being almost invincible
    50% proc rate for Determination. swiki says it only works for one type of knockback though. Stuff that launches (think this is different from being blown away, think Razan as launch and Nazan as blowback, which Determination works on) or staggers doesn't proc Determination. There's a third type it doesn't work for but I don't know what "down" could mean. That is quite literally what it says too, "ダウン" (daun), so I can't guess at the meaning by looking at alternative translations, there's just one way to translate. But that isn't really relevant to figuring out what does trigger it anyway.

    Noiya Nyau's wand has Absorption latent (during Guard Stance, heal ~25% HP when an enemy dies nearby). Since it requires Guard Stance...yeah. Not good. It's good enough for leveling other classes though, with its all-class, so you can keep it for that purpose. Nobody should complain, at least you won't be using an EXP Boost weapon like Zanba and running around doing nothing.

    Chase Arrow won't trigger when you use Banish Arrow, but instead when you use a charged tech or another bow PA. So you can use Chase Arrow before Banish Arrow for successful results. I dunno how effective Chase Arrow is, but more damage can't hurt. It's not like you have to worry about PP with PP Convert and Rapid Shoot Advance.

    By the way, about UQs, one thing I started doing with healing is use uncharged Megiverse > uncharged auto-target tech after getting hit. As long as you aren't one-shotted or combo'd to instant death, it's a nearly instantaneous full heal for a small PP cost. Could be pretty handy if you aren't doing that already.
    Last edited by LonelyGaruga; Jan 19, 2015 at 01:34 PM.

  4. #24

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    LonelyGaruga; your builds are very biased towards your own play style. In addition to that the way you keep wording your posts also gives off a strong "I am right, you are wrong" vibe. It might be an idea to tone your posts down a little as you are coming off as being very elitist, which in turn is very discouraging to the discussion of the class and builds. I'm sorry to sound harsh.

    I've seen some phenomenal Japanese players run Te/Br builds with no investment into the bow skills, but still do more damage than those who do. So it goes to show that each tree has skills that can be adapted to the player and there's no 100% right way to run a build as long as you have the gear and the skill to back it up. But there will always be terrible skills you shouldn't touch with a pole.

    The Deband Cut discussion is a brilliant example of this actually! As someone who farms Ultimate on a daily basis I can confirm that Deband Cut can often make the difference between life and death, especially so when the game is nice enough to throw multiple bosses at you. That extra HP buys both yourself and your party enough time to recover. After all, you can't deal damage or be of any help when you're dead. I run a full +10 Saiki set and I still get knocked into the abysmally low 20hp mark when hate is lost by a hunter, multiple bosses spawn, or I step into an attack coming from off-screen (cameras! also I'm a female newman so i'm asking for low HP here). I personally love Deband Cut and I think it's an essential part of a melee techer build, but it's definitely possible and viable to run melee techer without it, it's just not something I would recommend myself even with Massive Hunter.

    I agree with Hrith for the most part, but I run a "pure" stat mag which I've found to work to my own play style better than a mixed one. It also lets me equip some of the high end gear I wouldn't be able to use otherwise! But I can fully understand why this would be a bad thing, I'm just fortunate enough to have access to AC so I can change depending on what I'm running.

    That's just my controversial two cents on this. I've been stalking these threads on college internet for a while.

  5. #25

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    I uh...I'm honestly not sure where I sound like a biased elitist to be honest. Most of the skill descriptions were written specifically to avoid bias and present facts. Could you give some specific sections of the guide as examples? Deband Cut doesn't really count. There's no argument that it's one of the best defensive skills in the game, but the fact is that players should be aiming to keep damage taken to a minimum, and the more time spent playing, the less a person gets hit. Yes, when you get hit, Deband Cut/Toughness are really helpful, because dying is something that simply should never be allowed to happen because it is a massive drop in performance, but then the question becomes, wouldn't it be better to have avoided being hit in the first place? There are many preventative measures that could be taken to avoid getting hit at all, the majority of which cost nothing. Stuff like getting a better grasp of Step's invincibility, observing patterns under which you get hit under, or finding more efficient tactics to use. These don't require anything more than experience and learning from mistakes made.

    Essentially, I do not believe that any negative opinions expressed about defensive skills is actually wrong or a result of bias here, because in the scenarios provided, the actual correct response is to figure out why you got hit and what could have been done to prevent it. In the given scenario you provided with your equipment, you have 683 HP (assuming no HP affixes) and 12/9% S/R resistance. If I had that kind of setup, I'd be pretty much invincible, and I'm pretty bad at the game imo.

    So I'm not really inclined to believe that I'm mistaken about Deband Cut based on your example, so much as you're making mistakes that you really ought not be making. Nothing in UQs that should consistently hit you should be doing 600+ damage with your setup, especially with Deband Cut, since then the actual damage you would have taken would be 690+. I don't think any non-boss hits that hard, so that rules out the possibility of running into off-screen attacks. Combo attacks can do it, but the mob count in UQs is too low for combos to be a meaningful probability. There's also the question of why you have a Hunter taking hate when everyone should be taking hate. I have not run an UQ where people ever had difficulty wiping out all of the mobs present. They are simply not dangerous. And for bosses, even UQ bosses are easy to predict with sufficient experience. It only takes a couple fights to recognize patterns and behaviors and take measures to avoid attacks before they happen and minimize their threat to your safety. And with multiple boss spawns, all of my experience in UQs, and all quests in general, rarely suffered any form of overlap, because the bosses focus on whoever has the most hate. If a Hunter used War Cry and got the hate of both bosses, then there's a problem, but that was their mistake to do so. In trying to be helpful, they actually made things more complicated, because now there's overlap in where the bosses are at, which dramatically increases the chaos of the fight. In practice, it's best to separate bosses when multiples spawn. That way there's no real difference to fighting two bosses than there is one boss.

    Basically, what I'm saying is, the best defensive measure is to take measures to avoid dangerous situations before they happen. All of the arguments I've seen in favor of Deband Cut/Toughness work on the assumption that the scenario where the skills helped them survive was unavoidable, when really the scenarios could have been avoided altogether by playing differently. And that's really why I can't see them as valid arguments. To be quite honest, the main argument I have in favor of using those skills without super armor is for attacks that don't flinch the player, such as Malluda's arrows and gas clouds. But those attacks are too uncommon for me to justify a 10-15 SP expense at the cost of some important offensive skills. Keep in mind that Te/Fi and Te/Br builds, while not all oriented toward techs, do have good tech usage. And max Deband Cut/Toughness is the norm for the Te/Hu builds presented, because there's no such thing as enough damage reduction when it comes to using super armor. Which, by the way, leads me to be confused as to why you say you wouldn't recommend not using Deband Cut even with Massive Hunter. Is that expressing your own view of the matter? Because I'm suggesting to pretty much always take Cut/Toughness/MH together with the Te/Hu builds.

    Now, about Te/Br. Absolutely, Te/Br has good wand usage. But its bow usage kills bosses faster. Had a similar talk about this before with Hrith, and well, quite frankly, there was no argument made so I can't really say anything about how that went. Thread if you're curious.

    Wolgahda: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24854109
    Falz Arms: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24950628
    Dragon Ex: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24917348 (ignore the second video I linked in the thread, I posted a different Te/Br Dragon Ex video by mistake)
    Bal Rodos: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25066162
    Blu Ringahda: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25195876
    Biol Meduna: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm25301656

    TA videos posted by adios

    Nab II: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24704456
    Sanctum: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24919115

    Naturally, Te/Br uses wands and not just bows. But a pure wand build hasn't been an efficient way to play Te/Br since Rikauteri came out. However, I did attempt to make a pure wand build. It's the build I labeled Dual Stances. There was leftover SP to throw in to bow skills anyway, so I did. If there were better options on the Braver tree, that would be a pure wand build, but there aren't currently, so there is no pure wand Te/Br build. No reason to run one with how the Braver tree is right now.

    You're right that builds should be adjusted based on player preference, and that's why I spent far more time detailing all the skill information than I did with builds. The actual build examples are more archetype ideas with a generalized sample build. My expectation is for players not to copy the builds, because in a sense, they aren't intended for use, but to present an idea for players to work with. Instead, my goal is to present ideas of how skills work and provide samples of build types, and allow players to draw their own conclusions and make their own builds. I really don't want people to actually copy paste the builds given, otherwise I would have only presented what I thought were the best builds and nothing else. Instead, I put in incredibly gimmicky builds like wandless Te/Hu and Te/Br and Limit Break Fi/Te solely because people might want to try them and they do what they do better than other class combinations can do.

    Looking at the general theme of input, it seems that I'm simply too concise with my writing style within the guide. I wrote it in a fashion similar to how the JP wikis lay things out so that it would be easy to read and impersonal (ctrl + f "you" and you won't find a single instance of it within the guide, I deliberately avoided this to try to be more professional). The best solution seems to simply be to add disclaimers that opinions expressed are solely the author's and are only intended to provide information to aid in decision making. Because that's what I meant for the guide, and it's failing to get that idea across.

    And uh, sorry for the lengthy reply. You wrote a good post and it seemed wasteful to not reply as thoroughly as I could, as you don't seem likely to throw a hissy fit over being contradicted, as I have seen too often on this forum, so I'm hoping to get a good conversation going over this.
    Last edited by LonelyGaruga; Jan 19, 2015 at 05:11 PM.

  6. #26

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    Lycoris' 2:35 TeBr Nab2 if you want something a little more impressive:



    Showcases TeBr bow very well too. No reason not to use it; someone's playstyle doesn't change that bow is one of the best way to kill bosses as TeBr. People need to stop throwing around the shitty "playstyle" argument just because they prefer to do something another way. There's nothing wrong with doing things your own way, but your preferences do not change objective facts.
    Last edited by Z-0; Jan 19, 2015 at 05:58 PM.

  7. #27

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    Two new wands this update (so far).

    Cool Candy: 11*, 500 S-ATK requirement, all-class, innate Razan access. Potential is Human Conductor. Drops from Love Rappy. Doesn't seem interesting.

    Nox Kyklos: 12*, 425 T-DEF requirement, Techer equip only. Potential is Inevitable Strike. Drops in XH Cradle of Darkness and XH Where's the Chocolate 3.

    So by default, the 13% triggers 5% of the time, for a 0.65% increase in damage. Which is incredibly weak. With some critical skills added into the mix, it changes a little better.

    Shifta Critical: 5+20% (3.25% damage increase)
    Fury Critical/Brave Critical/Wise Critical/Average S Critical/Weak Stance Critical: 5+25% (3.9% damage increase)
    Both: 5+45% (6.5% damage increase)

    All of these scenarios put Inevitable Strike as weaker than Discerning Eye. But, Nox Kyklos has higher stats than Pristine Small Hammer.

    Nox Kyklos: 1098 S-ATK, 1070 T-ATK (1526 S-ATK)
    Pristine Small Hammer: 1090 S-ATK, 965 T-ATK (1476 S-ATK)

    50 more S-ATK and 105 more T-ATK (roughly 1% and 4% more damage for strikes/WG). So on paper, Nox Kyklos has stronger Wand Gear if you have enough SP to spare to max both critical skills, roughly a 2.5% advantage. But its wand strikes are still slightly weaker, by roughly 0.5%, and all other wands will have worse usage if you do that since there's now 17-20 SP devoted to increasing damage by maybe 1%. So Nox Kyklos just isn't worth building around. It's technically better than Pristine Small Hammer, but only if built around criticals, and species latent wands still beat it and lose strength if going the critical route, so there's no real reason to use Nox Kyklos over Pristine Small Hammer.

    There doesn't seem to be anything else of interest in the update for Techer, so that's it.
    Last edited by LonelyGaruga; Jan 28, 2015 at 11:56 PM.

  8. #28

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    There haven't been anything exciting for techer since like Elysion. Everything else is just small amounts of more damage. I wish SEGA would become more original with latents for 12* and higher stuff. Stuff like increased explosions radius, increased attack range, 20% higher attack speed, explosion multiplier building up by using charged techs, fixed hatou in the first tech slot, larger zondeel, vampiric blade, etc.

    I don't really feel like +40'ing and affixing any more wands for like 1~3% of extra damage.


  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z-0 View Post
    Lycoris' 2:35 TeBr Nab2 if you want something a little more impressive
    Them having wand gear at the start is because they went into a random quest and switched to the Time Attack right?
    Known as Niem on Ship 2.
    Spoiler!

  10. #30

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    Wand Lovers instantly fills up Wand Gear and keeps it full as long as it's active. Switching between quests doesn't keep a weapon's Gear anyway.

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