Summoner Class Discussion

[ArcaneTechs]

Also, I can't speak for Kril (not sure I'd want to anyway), but I'm pretty sure the biggest issue with X/Su is people thinking there's a reason to main pets with it. I can't see Te/Su beating out Te/Ra, or even Te/Bo in the raw support area, and I really don't think Te/Su is gonna beat Te/Br in terms of single target burst, even with Maron.

Your pretty spot on at what I was getting at, I get sick and tired of seeing niche builds and people coming in to mpa's thinking you know "I'm pulling my weight" but parser wise your not doing much and for things like (example) Xmas, trying to pull 5 runs won't happen IF a 1/4 of the mpa is using niche builds (HU/SU, yes RNG too but you know what I mean). I do agree with your TE/SU vs TE/BR point. I also was getting at huge numbers, again like you guys said, these "niche" builds are good for "solo" play but the problem is people bring these class combo's into mpa's and they don't help make an impact much. I'm someone who likes to get 4-5 Xmas runs, not 2-3 because reasons

also, TE/FO? why bother? that may have been good back in the day before Element Convert but theres no point even with Shifta Strike, TE is basically support, if your looking for damage/full on support then TE/BR or you know Tanky TE/HU

[Kondibon]

also, TE/FO? why bother? that may have been good back in the day before Element Convert but theres no point even with Shifta Strike, TE is basically support, if your looking for damage/full on support then TE/BR or you know Tanky TE/HU

Te/Fo is super niche and I've only ever heard of it being used in organized runs when Te's usual tricks aren't as effective. Honestly though, I think 13*s killed it more than element convert.

[sparab]

Te/Fo is super niche and I've only ever heard of it being used in organized runs when Te's usual tricks aren't as effective. Honestly though, I think 13*s killed it more than element convert.

Have not played organized runs or used parser for a while. TeFo makes up 80-90% Te population in JP pugs and is especially popular among the self claimed elites.

TeBr is the super niche for what I observed since most JP aren't very good players that is.

[Zephyrion]

Your pretty spot on at what I was getting at, I get sick and tired of seeing niche builds and people coming in to mpa's thinking you know "I'm pulling my weight" but parser wise your not doing much and for things like (example) Xmas, trying to pull 5 runs won't happen IF a 1/4 of the mpa is using niche builds (HU/SU, yes RNG too but you know what I mean). I do agree with your TE/SU vs TE/BR point. I also was getting at huge numbers, again like you guys said, these "niche" builds are good for "solo" play but the problem is people bring these class combo's into mpa's and they don't help make an impact much. I'm someone who likes to get 4-5 Xmas runs, not 2-3 because reasons

also, TE/FO? why bother? that may have been good back in the day before Element Convert but theres no point even with Shifta Strike, TE is basically support, if your looking for damage/full on support then TE/BR or you know Tanky TE/HU

well TE/SU always has been useful for some content, but the all-class tact just made it better at said content instead of suddenly making it dabess combo. The Increased zanverse numbers thanks to All Attack bonus and increased healing number with All ATK Up always made it a nice pick for PD and Magatsu. it's just that now instead of only being able to do subpar whacks, you can whip up a marron at times and still get relatively juicy numbers while profiting from improved zanverse. I wouldn't really see it shine in any other content though, but only time will tell

Also TE/FO actually works pretty well provided you build it properly and not play it just for levelling up with botched trees. you pretty much lose element conversion for shifta strike and supports. The loss of damage is there, but it's not as substantial as you might think, especially when you think about what you gain from support skills.

Where TE/HU and TE/BR are front line supports that mostly dogfight with wands while slinging close range and support techs, TE/FO is a back line support that uses Talis for both support from afar and tech spam. unlike other combinations, TE/FO's damage is substantial enough that having another TE in a party doesn't make its efficiency take too much of a dip, unlike TE/SU or TE/RA.

Well sorry for all that blabber, especially off-topic blabber since, ya know summoner Thread and all xD

[Kondibon]

Have not played organized runs or used parser for a while. TeFo makes up 80-90% Te population in JP pugs and is especially popular among the self claimed elites.

Are you sure you don't mean Fo/Te? What ship do you play on? I barely, if ever see any Te/Fo players, japanese or otherwise, in pugs. ._.

Also when I say niche I mean there aren't a lot of places where it's particularly useful compared to other similar class combos, not that few people play it. Br/Ra and Ra/Br are niche too and I see them everywhere. :T

[Kondibon]

This isn't really about class combos or anything, but I've been trying to do some goofy stuff with hp recovery Maron and a heal share or healing guard. Does anyone have any other ideas? Right now it has the hp recovery at half health rolls, but it rarely ever gets that low, so I'm wondering if there might be an alternative way to give it extra healing without having to wait 20 seconds without getting hit (kinda defeats the point), or requiring a kill.

[sparab]

Are you sure you don't mean Fo/Te? What ship do you play on? I barely, if ever see any Te/Fo players, japanese or otherwise, in pugs. ._.

Also when I say niche I mean there aren't a lot of places where it's particularly useful compared to other similar class combos, not that few people play it. Br/Ra and Ra/Br are niche too and I see them everywhere. :T

https://youtu.be/MMIKZ1mWxFA?t=1578

Subclass usage pre EP4. It may not be the newest data but it is at least one year after element convert was out. Don't ask me how many of them are sub leveling.

I am on shit 1 and TeFo seems quite popular here. JP here worship CTech above all else that they just have to combine Fo and Te together.

[Kondibon]

https://youtu.be/MMIKZ1mWxFA?t=1578

Subclass usage pre EP4. It may not be the newest data but it is at least one year after element convert was out.

I'm not the one who said element conversion was what made people stop doing Te/Fo, that was Kril. I said 13*s would have been more likely. I was just wondering where you were getting that from because I wasn't seeing it. Being on a different ship might be part of why.

I am on shit 1 and TeFo seems quite popular here. JP here worship CTech above all else that they just have to combine Fo and Te together.

Well I'm on ship 2 so... :T . Are you sure people aren't just using Te/Fo because it's safer? I know I did. Ra/Hu is the same way. Ra/Fi technically has a higher damage potential, but it's harder to play, and you don't have automate to face tank while you sat cannon. With Te/Fo you sacrifice a bit of damage for effectively 47% more hp, and also don't need rainbow weapons, which can be a pain to a lot of people. As someone who hates the affixing system and trying to get rainbow weapons, I totally feel the same way, the only reason I don't play Te/Fo is because I don't like the element masteries getting in the way of everything, and thus don't play Fo at all, main or sub.

That doesn't mean the class combo is super amazing or special or anything though, just that it's easy and safe, which is fine.

[sparab]

That doesn't mean the class combo is super amazing or special or anything though, just that it's easy and safe, which is fine.

Well, I never said TeFo or TeSu is super amazing. Those are mediocre classes combo but still good picks for pug environment. If your support+damage, exclude zanverus, contributes more than 10% MPA damage, you get the job done.
Of course you can be a super elite and does 30% instead of 10%, but why play Te at the first place?

Flaming (and blacklisting, genius) players who are not using the most LEET class is just toxic. If a HuFo does 10% in my MPA using umbra stick I would not give a damn.

[Kondibon]

Flaming (and blacklisting, genius) players who are not using the most LEET class is just toxic. If a HuFo does 10% in my MPA using umbra stick I would not give a damn.

I'm not the person to care personally, but usually the reason other people do is because the more damage you do the faster you can complete an EQ and the more runs you can do. If the EQ system wasn't designed in such a way that it more or less forces players of different playstyles and goals together this would barely be a problem.