[Discussion] PSO2 Without Subclasses?

[Kokurokoki]

Just a discussion topic but I've been curious because I know a lot of players have been dissatisfied with the current state of the game and I'd like to explore their thoughts about the various mechanics of the game.

So one that's been on my mind, Subclass.

How would PSO2 be without subclasses? What do subclasses actually add to the game other than damage? It seems like the main reason people use subclasses are purely to tack on more damage for their main classes. I'm asking because I'm generally curious as to how various players feel about the subclass system from a mechanical standpoint. Would there be more class diversity without subclasses? Would it unbalance and/or break certain other classes that are dependent upon the subclass system to function?

I have my own thoughts regarding subclasses, but I'm not 100% knowledgeable on the game and I'm more of a casual player so I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now. I'm more curious in what other players see in the mechanic and whether or not they like what is currently there. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Discuss.

[Selphea]

Subclasses are OK. Sega just needs to be less stupid about it.

Stupid as in it takes less effort to JA from any position than it is to charge an attack on a weak spot. And yet Fury + JA beats Weak + Stance Charge.

Stupid also as in 5 SP gives you 20% damage from afar with Sharpshooter, essentially rewarding you for doing little more than standing somewhere. However, 10 SP only gives you 15% up close with ZRA.

And finally, stupid as in the SP system in its current state is so difficult to expand without breaking that we haven't gotten a level cap increase in years.

[ZerotakerZX]

My granpa told that PSO2 didn't had subclasses back when. and everybody was happy.

There are some weird class combos, but nobody uses them, since they are not as damaging, but I enojoyd exporing variatns when all those skill trees were new to me.

[Zyrusticae]

Subclasses are OK. Sega just needs to be less stupid about it.

Stupid as in it takes less effort to JA from any position than it is to charge an attack on a weak spot. And yet Fury + JA beats Weak + Stance Charge.

Stupid also as in 5 SP gives you 20% damage from afar with Sharpshooter, essentially rewarding you for doing little more than standing somewhere. However, 10 SP only gives you 15% up close with ZRA.

And finally, stupid as in the SP system in its current state is so difficult to expand without breaking that we haven't gotten a level cap increase in years.

Don't forget stupid bullshit like Fury Stance being useless with techniques, ZRA being specific to shooting (though this one is somewhat understandable considering the class it's attached to, it's still annoyingly restrictive), Break Stance being completely useless on anything at all (Niren Orochi on Magatsu/PD aside), and so on and so on.

Game is chock-full of conditional bullshit that makes no sense just to force people to use certain subclass combinations over others. It's all pure nonsense.

If there's a PSO3, I hope they nip all of this in the bud and replace subclassing entirely with something else. Like a character skill tree instead of a class skill tree that works in addition to the class skill tree. That'd be something.

[wefwq]

The game will actually harder if there's no subclass system due to only able to use skill set from 1 class.
Stat gain from subclass can be easly ignored however because of how small it is.
Having no subclass will expose class weakness more clearly, this can hinder interest of people from playing said class since there's less variation due to lack of option for combination to redeem said class.
Some class have high damage multiplier that active all the time while the other some is don't have it as high and gated with certain condition which is stupid, this way bunch of people with settle with FOTM class and be done with it, while sega throwing OP class buff every couple of months.


Takes me back in the day when free field vol dragon is actually hard and is a real threat, especially during koffie CO run.

Though it depend on how stuff handled, they can cut subclass but it won't make any difference if enemy is nerfed in specific way.

[D-Inferno]

Subclassing was kind of okay back in 2012/13 because sub class weps actually had a use. But even back then, it was just "stack damage".

I feel that the current game would be fine if subclasses along with Gunner, Braver, and Bouncer were deleted, and Vanguard along with perhaps a trap class were added. Katana goes to Hunter, DBs to Fighter, TMG and Bow to Ranger, and JBs to Techter. Perhaps have Stances removed as well so that Fighter doesn't have to hit everything from the front. Hell, axe skill trees altogether; 90% of it is either damage boosts, or stuff that should already be built into your character. Maybe a trap class could be Ranger's counterpart. PSP2 Braver/Vanguard wouldn't be bad either. The current system is shit, and is only the way it is due to dripfeeding of content.

[Eternal255]

Well, considering the game started with no subclasses... I wouldn't want to go back.

As a Fi/Hu, the significant damage boost from Fury stance could be disregarded by modifying enemy stats. However I find Iron Will incredibly useful. Same thing applies with other classes, although with other classes, I use more cross-class weapons. While I do have a 13* sword and partizan that is Fi usable, I hardly ever use anything more than DS or TD.

So yeah, it'd be situational. I don't really see it making much a difference. The game isn't really gonna be any harder or easier (because the enemy stats would be based upon the lack of subclass).

What would make the game better is less classes and more weapon types between them. I would love to use dual blade on a fighter, or hell, even a saber type weapon like PSO had, and weapon-unique abilities.

Personally, I'm fine with the way things are in regards to subclasses. I would change some other mechanics, however.

[yoshiblue]

Coming from PSO and PSØ, I had often though, "Man, it sure would be great if I could still cast Resta, Deband and Shifta without having to be a Force." Then subclasses came along and it allowed me to do that; but also reminded me that I was playing an MMO were max DPS class parties were usually king. PSO2 lacking the need for a tank or pure support.

If PSO2 didn't have subclasses, I would have been fine with the Final Fantasy approach with their cross class skill system. At this point in time the skill rings fills in for that purpose.

[qoxolg]

The problem is not sub classes. The problem is damage buffs in skill trees in general that break the game, in combination with no level scaling toward enemies. Now even every single potential has a damage buff. But then what is the point? A good skill tree would only have functional skills and some stuff we now have on L skill rings. A good skill tree is balanced and prevents people from stacking shit that breaks the balance of the game, to the point where it gets worse and worse with each update.

While EP1 didn't have a very good balance between classes, the balance between players vs enemies was much better. I think PSO2 is currently beyond a point where it will be fixed. The majority of the players want to feel like they are playing a shonen anime game, and thats exactly what they are getting. If you take that away from them, the backlash would be huge. Sega is never gonna take such risk.

Lets all put our hopes in PSO3!

[Zysets]

Coming from PSO and PSØ, I had often though, "Man, it sure would be great if I could still cast Resta, Deband and Shifta without having to be a Force." Then subclasses came along and it allowed me to do that; but also reminded me that I was playing an MMO were max DPS class parties were usually king. PSO2 lacking the need for a tank or pure support.

If PSO2 didn't have subclasses, I would have been fine with the Final Fantasy approach with their cross class skill system. At this point in time the skill rings fills in for that purpose.

That's something that bugged me when I started playing PSO2, I was always a HUnewearl in the other games, and being able to use Resta was always nice.

It would be awesome to see a Skill Ring that lets you use Resta or other supportive techs.