Summoner Subclassing General.

[reinforcers]

Think you're better off with "instant healing" over "charge + passive healing". RA's T-ATK isn't good enough for Resta to be that great, and passive healing is just... eh. If you're playing RA well, you shouldn't really be getting hit all that much anyways. RA kinda needs Massive Hunter, too, since staying in one place is hard if you're gonna keep getting knocked around.

actually it the other way around, RA still can held just passive healing and resta because it is at high range and keep moving so less likely to get hit by something. Im not saying it will be that easy but still can be done

[nguuuquaaa]

I don't know if it's a good idea to have a class that can't recover PP by normal attack use more PP to heal and even more PP to Zondeel/Zanverse.

[echofaith]

You don't Zondeel mob in tower, you Sacred Skewer Type-0 them. Which is good at both damage and aggro. Also Zondeel without Territory Burst is... err.
TE can naturally use tech in the first place. TE/SU is the worst at mobbing because worse general multiplier = worse wand damage.
.

Zoondel works good when the mob in the tower is separated and you cant hit them all at once with your PAs. Slide Shaker may fit the bill in these cases, but the damage is also one of the lowest. It also works when suicidal goldradas are close to exploding, since you can zondeel them away and let them explode without damaging the tower.

The point of subbing Su as Techer is to use pets as your main damaging source, not wands. Not sure how instant wand mobbing is compared to pillow explosions, but you have other pets like torim and dragon to hit stuff that isnt in range for good damage and aggro too.

[Saagonsa]

EA and Satcan have 0 super armor at all. Considering how long they take to charge up, anything other than a hunter subclass is just horrible for any situation where you would use either of those PAs.

[Moffen]

If you're gonna be a meta tard and not contribute then let the thread die already jesus christ.
I stopped putting effort into this when I realised I posted it on PSO-W.

[Altiea]

I mean, it's not that SU as a sub isn't terrible. It's got lots of unconditional damage bonuses, localized Weak Bullet, an actually decent Stat Up, HP Restorate, Massive Mate for classes that eat Mates to live, and a Pretty Good clone that is worth getting if you're subbing SU. The problem is that other subs provide something specific to mains that makes those mains better (the overcentralization of HU as a subclass is a major offender), which decreases the viability of SU sub.

One of the other problems about SU as a sub is that it's stuffed to the brim with Main Class Skills because of the whole Pet thing, which leaves very little room for any good Skills.

Just for kicks, I cobbled together this SU tree for sub. As it so happens, at Level 80, you have just enough Points to get most of the non-Pet skills on the tree, which gives you +175 ATK/DEF, an extra +100 HP, and all the boons previously mentioned.

[nguuuquaaa]

Zoondel works good when the mob in the tower is separated and you cant hit them all at once with your PAs. Slide Shaker may fit the bill in these cases, but the damage is also one of the lowest. It also works when suicidal goldradas are close to exploding, since you can zondeel them away and let them explode without damaging the tower.

The point of subbing Su as Techer is to use pets as your main damaging source, not wands. Not sure how instant wand mobbing is compared to pillow explosions, but you have other pets like torim and dragon to hit stuff that isnt in range for good damage and aggro too.

Why non-Territory-Burst Zondeel when you have Other Spin.

If you can gather a lot of mobs in one place and your computer won't have fps reduced for each wand swing then wand mobbing is still extremely effective. And when I say TE/SU is the worst at mobbing, I mean the worst among TE combinations. Yes you can use Redran, Cery/Popple and Torim/Aero for mobbing, but TE/BR can Ragrants/Gigrants Type-0, TE/FI has WG Element + Chase and TE/HU is simply good ol' TE/HU.

If you're gonna be a meta tard and not contribute then let the thread die already jesus christ.
I stopped putting effort into this when I realised I posted it on PSO-W.

Then let it die already.
You are the one who want opinion, but when people give you opinion you start flipping out.
The reason /SU is not good is because /HU is too good for striking, /RA is too good for ranged, /TE is too good for tech and /GU is too good for burst. Also, /SU is forced to Point Assist to achieve full multiplier, means less damage vs mobs and bosses with lots of breakable parts. Except TE which doesn't have a good bossing tool naturally, there's no reason to use /SU for pets over main class weapons.

[Altiea]

Then let it die already.
You are the one who want opinion, but when people give you opinion you start flipping out.
The reason /SU is not good is because /HU is too good for striking, /RA is too good for ranged, /TE is too good for tech and /GU is too good for burst. Also, /SU is forced to Point Assist to achieve full multiplier, means less damage vs mobs and bosses with lots of breakable parts. Except TE which doesn't have a good bossing tool naturally, there's no reason to use /SU for pets over main class weapons.

I think it's important to delve into why these classes are better than SU at playing PSO2, but the short answer is probably going to be "SU as a subclass is a master of none". SU as a sub does a lot of things decently, but without the specialization that HU, RA, TE, and GU give, it doesn't do anything another class can't do better.

I believe the original intent of the thread was also missed; it was originally created to discuss what you can do with a SU sub, but as SU doesn't really do much as a sub, it turned into a discussion as to why you shouldn't sub SU.

At least it isn't /BO. Bouncer is a pretty terrible subclass outside of niche builds.

[nguuuquaaa]

Well, I do agree that /SU is actually a nice sub clas (reasonable multiplier, tech usage). But similar to /FI, it doesn't specialize in anything so it falls short compared to /HU, /RA, /TE and /GU.

[reinforcers]

I don't know if it's a good idea to have a class that can't recover PP by normal attack use more PP to heal and even more PP to Zondeel/Zanverse.

if your main does can recover PP fast I dont see the problem for healing, not the favorite one but not bad either, especially if you want to tryout a class since it have all atk and all def

Well, I do agree that /SU is actually a nice sub clas (reasonable multiplier, tech usage). But similar to /FI, it doesn't specialize in anything so it falls short compared to /HU, /RA, /TE and /GU.

indeed, with the pet skill main class only, the only possible to use are mostly stat skill